<boomshroom>
Fingers crossed nixos-install doesn't overwrite the store and profiles.
<disasm>
clever: right, I'm just wondering why I'm not pulling things from cache.nixos.org that are successfully building in hydra since upgrading to 18.03.
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<clever>
disasm: can you give me an example of a storepath its building?
<clever>
disasm: you dont have cache.nixos.org listed
<clever>
so it never uses it
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<disasm>
oh, I betcha everything I wanted from 17.09 was in iohk binary cache. I thought it was additive in that it kept the default cache (it kept the key oddly enough)
<clever>
yeah, something sometimes doesnt work right with that in the binary cache
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<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @YorikSar opened pull request #36835 → bitcoin-unlimited: fix build with boost 1.66 → https://git.io/vxepV
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<boomshroom>
I find it funny how wifi is hell to set up, but USB tethering works out of the box.
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<clever>
boomshroom: for all of my systems, the wifi drivers just work, and all i have to do is copy /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf in to make it live
<clever>
and hardware.wireless.enable = truee;
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* deepfire
waves at disasm and clever
* clever
waves back
<boomshroom>
clever: That assumes you have a wpa_supplicant premade and available without internet.
<clever>
boomshroom: yeah
<clever>
boomshroom: if your on wep or open, you can manually connect using iwconfig
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<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @markuskowa opened pull request #36836 → beegfs: introduce patches for kernel 4.14 → https://git.io/vxepb
<disasm>
hi deepfire :)
<boomshroom>
This time I did actually have a wpa_supplicant available offline from the previous NixOS installation, but I'm using USB tethering anyways because its still easier.
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<Lisanna>
...what is tarball-ttl?
<clever>
Lisanna: the ttl for builtins.fetchTarball
<Lisanna>
it's a nix.conf option?
<clever>
yes
<Lisanna>
and it means "if I've already downloaded a tarball within tarball-ttl, don't bother checking the server for a new one"?
<clever>
yep
<Lisanna>
what's its default value?
<clever>
an hour i think?
<Lisanna>
oh god
<clever>
?
<Lisanna>
okay, this was the thing that gave me about an hour of grief yesterday
<clever>
heh
<Lisanna>
nix-channel from nix 2.0 started using downloadCached
<MichaelRaskin>
.~
<Lisanna>
which also uses tarball-ttl
<clever>
ahh
<Lisanna>
so that's why my channel wasn't updating
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<clever>
Lisanna: ~/.cache/nix/tarballs/ is where it stores the cache
<clever>
if you wipe that, it will re-check everything
<Lisanna>
I assumed that channels were usable as more or less direct pipes full of nix code, and so I have been using a nix channel in a code->deploy->run cycle
<Lisanna>
Is this desirable for channel tarballs to have a TTL?
<boomshroom>
I reinstalled nixos and now I'm stuck on SDDM. I don't have a password yet and ctrl-alt-f1 doesn't seem to do anything.
<Lisanna>
...I think most users would expect nix-channel --update to update the channel
<Lisanna>
regardless of any ttl, especially if they didn't set it
<boomshroom>
Need to use fn key.
<samueldr>
hi o/ anyone seen another weird cut-off github message from {^_^}?
<samueldr>
if botbot's making trouble, looks like I'll need to make sure to keep logging :)
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<Acou_Bass>
eyy folks, just a quick question - lets say i have two channels in my user profile, so ive done nix-channel --add urltonixos-17.09 nixpkgs, AND nix-channel --add urltonixos-unstable unstable... if i want to install something from unstable, is it just a case of nix-env -iA unstable.packagename... and then if i want it from stable, nix-env -iA nixpkgs.packagename?
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<samueldr>
oh, and earlier, (if any of those people are here now) there were weird "PR merge" where the author of the PR was used instead of the user who closed the PR, I'm working on it
* samueldr
is scanning the whole backlog for cut-off messages to understand why
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<clever>
samueldr: i checked it here, nothing looks cut off
<gchristensen>
samueldr: quite likely a bug in the ircbot gateway component
<Lisanna>
Acou_Bass yes
<gchristensen>
I've seen it happen that way if the message ends with a trailing neweline
<clever>
2018-03-11 16:44:45-{^_^}:#nixos- → 880311a5 by @grahamc: Merge pull request #36824 from dupgit/patch-
<clever>
samueldr: maybe that?
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<Acou_Bass>
thanks, just checking ;D
<clever>
2018-03-11 16:52:11-{^_^}:#nixos- → 0edb8f7b by @dtzWill: Merge pull request #36810 from dtzWill/fix/glibc-with-mus
<clever>
or that?
<samueldr>
that's the kind of wrroneous messages I'm talking about
<samueldr>
yes to both of them
<samueldr>
they're not all problematic though :/
<samueldr>
this too : <{^_^}> → 9a68c569 by @7c6f434c: Merge pull request #34067 from mogorman/gnucla
<dtz>
(sounds like y'all are debugging a bot --no issues re:that commit right? just saw ping and wanted to make sure ;))
<clever>
dtz: yeah, the commit messages are a bit cut off
<samueldr>
in my particular case, no, a replacement of nixos_github bot
<samueldr>
ah, I thought you said "a bot *that commits*" lol
<boomshroom>
How do I get /nix/var/nix/profiles/default out of my path?
<dtz>
Haha okay!
<samueldr>
though, not all commit subjects, and those that are cut-off don't look any weirder
<boomshroom>
It's the biggest issue with the shared store.
<clever>
boomshroom: when i shared a store between platforms, i had a profiles.x86 and a profiles.arm, and then i used fileSystems."/nix/var/nix/profiles" = { fsType = "bind"; ...
<clever>
to bind-mount the right one
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @knedlsepp opened pull request #36837 → pythonPackages.shapely: fix darwin build → https://git.io/vxejl
<samueldr>
gchristensen: I'll look into stripping/chomping all \n, just in case, but it would be weird to have \n from the github API responses
<boomshroom>
clever: And both were seen by the garbage collector as roots?
<clever>
boomshroom: i had to manually add both to the gcroots directory
<samueldr>
though, since you said that you've seen that happen previously, could it be something else than newlines? only that now we're using the bot more often, it happens more often?
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<samueldr>
the weirdest part for me is how it cut off something *not* at the last char earlier on
<gchristensen>
samueldr: oh?
<samueldr>
(UTC) 19:24 <{^_^}> [nixpkgs] @dezgeg pushed to release-18.03 « nix: Fix build on ARMv
<boomshroom>
Also, trying to access the terminal as my user causes both bash and fish to freak out. Bash still kind of works, but fish boots me out completely.
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<boomshroom>
bash: cannot set terminal process group (7231): Inappropriate ioctl for device
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<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @pjan opened pull request #36839 → updates gist to 4.6.2 → https://git.io/vxveJ
<boomshroom>
Fish has a less descriptive version of the same error.
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<clever>
boomshroom: the default profile is roots nix-env profile
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<boomshroom>
clever: That explains why it didn't get very much action. I either installed something on my user, or through configuration.nix.
<boomshroom>
I already switched root to use /nix/var/nix/profiles/per-user/root/nixos\
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<clever>
ah yeah, if you just mess with the ~/.nix-profile symlink, you can get nix-env to use any profile
<clever>
that would probably be simpler, if you only have 1 nixos
<clever>
but in my case, i was running arm and x86 nixos from the same disk
<boomshroom>
clever: profiles/nixos-arm and profiles/nixos-x86?
<clever>
yeah
<clever>
or rather
<clever>
profiles-arm/system
<clever>
nixos-rebuild cant be told to use a different profile
<boomshroom>
clever: right. You can temporarilly, but you can't switch like with nix-env.
<clever>
yeah
<clever>
so i used a bind-mount at boot time to change the whole profiles directory
<clever>
boomshroom: each nixos had a unique value for its device=
<rawtaz>
soooo. is it proper to say that NixOS == nixpkgs?
<disasm>
rawtaz: same github repo, but nixpkgs is used for nix on non-nixos systems as well
<rawtaz>
from what i can tell, NixOS is basically a collection of packages in a structured way, or how to describe it.
<clever>
rawtaz: yeah, nixos is just a single giant package called top-level, that depends on a ton of other specialized packages
<rawtaz>
disasm: why is it not in its own repo?
<clever>
and when ran, it boots a distro
<boomshroom>
rawtaz: nixpkgs is a collection of build scripts. Some of those scripts just happen to make an OS. That's one way to think of it.
<rawtaz>
yeah
<disasm>
rawtaz: they share the same packages. Managing forks of different packages for nixos/non-nixos would be a major pain.
<rawtaz>
but if NixOS is basically just a top package and/or a bunch of scripts, then that should be decoupled from the nixpkgs and not be a problem to maintain separately
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<clever>
rawtaz: the commands you use to start a daemon depend on what version it is
<clever>
rawtaz: so it helps if they are tracked in the same repo and kept in sync with eachother
<rawtaz>
bah :P
<rawtaz>
okay
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<rawtaz>
so why isnt Nix in nixpkgs too?
<clever>
nixpkgs is just build scripts, not source code
<rawtaz>
perhaps one day it'll be clearer
<clever>
where to get the source, how to build and configure it, what depends on what
<boomshroom>
rawtaz: Becuase Nix is an actual program. Nixpkgs does contain the instructions to build Nix though.
<boomshroom>
It's the same reason the Arch repository is separate from Pacman.
<boomshroom>
And just like Pacman, Nix can be configured to use alternate repositories.
<rawtaz>
yeah
<rawtaz>
its just the NixOS being inside Nixpkgs repo that's super weird
<rawtaz>
the other things are fine :)
<gchristensen>
rawtaz: only because no other OS's package manager is super useful outside of that OS
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<boomshroom>
rawtaz: ya. I'm actually having trouble finding where the binaries for nixos-rebuild et al are stored.
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<rawtaz>
boomshroom: :D
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<Lisanna>
is there a nice way to watch a nix build log as it's building? not being able to see what's going on with the new nix build command makes me nervous :p
<clever>
Lisanna: i still use nix-build and it outputs the logs
<Lisanna>
yeah I know I can use nix-build, but I like the new syntax (no -A, channels are easier to specify)
<Lisanna>
is there any significant difference between the two other than UI?
<clever>
ive not really used `nix` for building for building yet
<MichaelRaskin>
Not printing the resulting path
<clever>
ive only use `nix copy`, `nix copy-sigs` and `nix repl`
<MichaelRaskin>
Both theory and observation tell me that deep underneath there is a single operation called «realise the derivation» that is called by both
<Lisanna>
MichaelRaskin oh geez, your'e right, it doesn't even print the result path
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<MichaelRaskin>
There is an issue about that, though
<boomshroom>
clever: no, I mean paths in the profiles directory. In addition to the `default` in need of purging, I may have copied over more symlinks than I did environments that they point to.
<Lisanna>
clever yeah, it's a pretty weird / specific syntax
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* clever
heads off to bed
<rawtaz>
bai clever
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<boomshroom>
Cannot delete current generation
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<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @kmicklas opened pull request #36841 → callCabal2nix: Use host platform rather than build platform for evaluation of Cabal files → https://git.io/vxvfG
<disasm>
well nixos handles upgrades fantastically, but a lot of packages/services I have setup like to really break reverse compatibility requiring lots of debugging, lol :)
<Guestv>
Probably dumb question here please. Is it advisable to store my own modules in /etc/nixos ?
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<Guestv>
I mean for a user
<Guestv>
First time installer here.. so i'm a little confused
<Lisanna>
Guestv what do you mean by "store"?
<Lisanna>
you mean store the nix code for them there and then in your imports have imports = [ /etc/nixos/mymodule.nix ] ?
<disasm>
Guestv: that's what I do
<Guestv>
Yes please
<Guestv>
oh ok
<Guestv>
Thanks
<Lisanna>
I wouldn't necessarily do that... how are you adding them to /etc/nixos?
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<Guestv>
writing them there myself
<infinisil>
Guestv: yeah that's totally okay, I personally have a ton of my own modules in my system configuration (but my system config isn't in /etc/nixos, but that doesn't matter anyways)
<Lisanna>
ok, if you're writing them there yourself, that sounds fine
<disasm>
infinisil: those are my laptops. The other machines in the house use nixops: https://github.com/disassembler/network -- I'm debating merging the two git repos and having deployments under the root of the configurations one
<infinisil>
disasm: you mean use nixops for all of them?
<Guestv>
Do you by chance have a postgres setup in there somewhere?
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<disasm>
infinisil: my laptops are just git cloned off that first repo, nixops is used for my desktop (optina) and router (portal)
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<infinisil>
I personally use nixops for all my machines, which is admittedly a bit slow
<infinisil>
But the advantage is that I can refer to other machines configs like this and do fancy stuff with it
<boomshroom>
infinisil: How's NixOps for managing user machines?
<infinisil>
boomshroom: There are some minor things you need to watch out for, but it works well
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<disasm>
I wish I could figure out why my zfs home and tmp partitions fail to mount with 18.03 and then the system just hangs :(
<infinisil>
disasm: Do you have the error?
<boomshroom>
On my new NixOS installation, bash keeps acting funny and attempting to use fish fails entirely.
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<boomshroom>
It has trouble setting the terminal correctly. bash complains about an innapropiate ioctl.
<disasm>
infinisil: filesystem 'zroot/root/tmp' can not be mounted: Read-only file system
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<infinisil>
disasm: Well my immediate guess is that readonly could be turned on, can be checked with `zfs get readonly zroot/root/tmp`
<boomshroom>
As a part of my expanding quest to Nix the world, has anyone tried getting Nix to run on Plan 9?
<disasm>
boomshroom: is that still around?
<boomshroom>
disasm: Kind of, I think?
<boomshroom>
Wikipedia says the latest release was in 2015.
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<boomshroom>
Note to self "/quit" exits all of weechat, not just the current channel.
<infinisil>
Indeed :P
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<boomshroom>
infinisil: To make sure it doesn't happen again, what is the command to leave a single channel?
<infinisil>
boomshroom: /part
<boomshroom>
I would not have guessed that.
<disasm>
/close works too :)
<boomshroom>
Thank you.
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<boomshroom>
The plan 9 subreddit isn't dead. That's for sure.
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<disasm>
infinisil: you're using grub with efi, right?
<infinisil>
Yeah
<disasm>
infinisil: can you paste your config? I'm getting You must set the option ‘boot.loader.grub.devices’ or 'boot.loader.grub.mirroredBoots' to make the system bootable. Which if it's just generating an efi image, I'm not sure why it requires those.
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<infinisil>
You just need to set it to "nodev" with efi
<infinisil>
There might be some stuff unnecessary in there though
<Lisanna>
Is it possible to perform a "nix copy --to" as part of a nix build?
<infinisil>
Lisanna: You seem to be all about doing stateful stuff in Nix again!
<Lisanna>
I'm running into errors in my test of it, so wondering if someone's already worked out a solution
<Lisanna>
infinisil what, no!!!
<infinisil>
(That's totally stateful though
<infinisil>
)
<Lisanna>
I want to generate a binary cache in nix, that's all
<Lisanna>
as part of a nix build
<Lisanna>
that's not stateful!
<boomshroom>
When I started looking up the current state of Plan 9, I was not expecting to see a Touhou character.
<Lisanna>
I want to do nix copy --to $out
<infinisil>
Lisanna: Ah, so you want to use `nix copy` to fetch stuff for a nix build?
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<infinisil>
Well I have no idea how that would work, it's one of those recursive nix things
<Lisanna>
well, I mean, not really fetch stuff, just to generate a binary cache as a build product that I can then move elsewhere
<Lisanna>
and use on other systems
<Lisanna>
yeah, I know it's one of those recursive nix things, but it seems like a useful thing ot be able to do, but nix tries to create /nix/var in the sandbox, so just wondering if someone's already pathcleared this usecase
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<Lisanna>
...in theory it *shouldn't* *need* to write anything to /nix to do this...
<Lisanna>
I guess I could just do this in a runInLinuxVM
<infinisil>
Heh yeah, but even parsing a nix file wants write access to /nix/var
<Lisanna>
actually, yeah, runInLinuxVM sounds like the way to go here
<Lisanna>
I *know* nix copy --to works in there :)
<infinisil>
I'm not sure how I feel about meta-nix.. especially when using runInLinuxVM is a solution..
<Lisanna>
what do you mean?
<infinisil>
I feel like this should be handled with nix commands, not the nix language
<Lisanna>
Nix is about building things... it's a language for how to build stuff. I want to build a binary cache that I then shove onto a bootable disk image. a binary cache is a thing to be built, so of course I want to use nix to build it
<infinisil>
Hmm.
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<infinisil>
Fair enough
<jakeLand>
hi everyone, I am new to nixos and I am trying to override an attribute of a dependency of one of my installed packages (changed a build flag). I've figured out how to override it in my configuration.nix, I think, but how do I make sure that my installed package uses this overriden dependency? when I do nix-rebuild it doesn't recompile the dependency, however if I put it in enviroment.systemPackages then it does compile with the new
<infinisil>
Lisanna: Oh, actually nixpkgs/nixos does something like this, hold on
<Lisanna>
infinisil I'm sure it does :)
<Lisanna>
jakeLand something something overlays
<Lisanna>
(I am a very helpful person)
<infinisil>
Lisanna: What is a binary cache really? What does it contain?
<Lisanna>
it's the result of nix copy --to /some/path, or nix-push if using 1.11
<Lisanna>
it's the one that has .nar and .narinfo files in it
<infinisil>
jakeLand: you can use `nixpkgs.overlays = [ (self: super: { hello = super.hello.override { ... }; }) ];`
<jakeLand>
thanks guys, I will look into this overlay thing. hopefully it will not be too difficult
<Lisanna>
yeah, I think I'm just going to write a "mkNixBinaryCache" function that uses runInLinuxVM. Unfortunately that means it won't work on anything other than linux though, which is a little bit sad
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<infinisil>
Lisanna: Hmm, so I guess the somewhat clean way to do it would be to implement this specific nix copy usage in a nix build with the standard commands, but that's not really nice
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<infinisil>
And the actual solution would be to fix these friggin nix commands to they work recursively, since they obviously should
<Lisanna>
recursive nix = expose a /nix filesystem, but only containing the packages in the closure of your build, and make it read-only
<Lisanna>
...and fix the commands to not need to write to /nix to perform what the user sees as a read operation
<infinisil>
Lisanna: but all of /nix is read-only available in builds already?
<Lisanna>
is the database available?
<infinisil>
oh right, only /nix/store
<Lisanna>
yeah
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<Lisanna>
don't want to enable that by default though, since most builds do not need recursive nix, and generating that /nix would take some time
<disasm>
I know we don't need it because we can rollback to a previous version (how I'm currently booted) but what would be the best way to get into a system that doesn't boot fully to a tty to live debug on nixos?
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<Lisanna>
...actually recursive nix could be implemented with a custom builder today and runInLinuxVM... write a builder which runs the nix installer to get a base install and add the closure of a build with exportReferencesGraph to the nix store, shove the whole thing in a $out, and use unshare to map that to your nix build's sandbox env at /nix
<Lisanna>
(with creating a /nix install done in runInLinuxVM)
<infinisil>
disasm: I feel like there should be a way to boot using an usb stick instead, then call the init of the machine to start it nontheless, but without having to use its bootloader
<infinisil>
ah, but i guess you mean it not working after the bootloader
<infinisil>
I have no idea
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<Lisanna>
heck you could even make it writable with unshare, then a bunch more nix commands might work (Although the written results obviously won't persist)
<infinisil>
Lisanna: That's horrible
<Lisanna>
infinisil I know :p
<infinisil>
Somebody needs to take some time to implement recursive nix
<boomshroom>
Apparently Plan9 doesn't have symlinks. While it should be possible to implement Nix-like functionality, it would require a lot of effort to convert the symlinks into mount points.
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<boomshroom>
Looking at nix's output, I'd really like to fix my terminal.
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<boomshroom>
Fixed my terminal. All it needed was an update.
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<pjan>
If anyone of the maintainers has some time to review / comment on https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/36790, it would be greatly appreciated. I have some room this week to address remarks & create the follow-up pr's mentioned before I'll be out for holidays.
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<boomshroom>
What's the state on true declarative use environment management? I think there was a tool to let it manage the home directory, but I'm not sure.
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<adisbladis[m]>
boomshroom: There are more than one tool :) I'm using home-manager
<adisbladis[m]>
It works pretty great
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<boomshroom>
It just seems like there are so many competing versions it's hard to choose.
<Lisanna>
Ugh... the only downside with using runInLinuxVM to do a nix copy is that it's *so slow*
<rujavada>
So there's that. Is there a way to regenerate from what i already have ?
<Lisanna>
rujavada "thought experiment"? are you running nix in your mind? :p
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<rujavada>
Lol wrong choice of word?
<Lisanna>
what do you mean regenerate? nix.conf isn't really generated... you write it
<rujavada>
I wanted to see what would occur if i delete i tried to rebuild.
<rujavada>
Yeah, well i don't remember everything i had in there
<Lisanna>
so... are you asking how to un-delete it?
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @Ericson2314 merged pull request #36841 → callCabal2nix: Use host platform rather than build platform for evaluation of Cabal files → https://git.io/vxvfG
<{^_^}>
→ f34e136a by @kmicklas: callCabal2nix: Use host platform rather than build platform for evaluation of Cabal files
<{^_^}>
→ 13c5a570 by @Ericson2314: Merge pull request #36841 from obsidiansystems/cabal2nix-system-hostPlatform
<rujavada>
not undelete per say
<rujavada>
I'm asking if the system can sort of generate the exact same config i had?
<rujavada>
because everything seems to be running well
<rujavada>
And i have no configuration whatsoever in that directory
<Lisanna>
are you on NixOS?
<rujavada>
Yup
<gillmanash>
I think you might be stuffed rujavada. I know captain hindsight is never that helpful, but maybe next time try `mv configuration.nix configuration.nix.bkp`
<rujavada>
That's fine. Nothing lost
<rujavada>
I'm just playing around and learning
<gillmanash>
There may be a way somebody else knows of, but I haven't come accross it in the past
<rujavada>
Scoured the manual and didn't see one either
<elvishjerricco>
rujavada: I think you can still do nixos-generate config to get back a sensible minimal config. Obviously this won't bring back your old config
<elvishjerricco>
rujavada: What kind of issues have you had with Stack? Bear in mind you *have* to use Stack's `--nix` argument on NixOS. You can make this the default by enabling nix in the global stack config
<rujavada>
writing /etc/nixos/etc/nixos/hardware-configuration.nix... warning: not overwriting existing /etc/nixos/etc/nixos/configuration.nix
<elvishjerricco>
--force, I believe
<Lisanna>
Ohhhhh
<rujavada>
except there's nothing there
<Lisanna>
that's strange
<Lisanna>
nixos-generate-config --root /
<rujavada>
Yup tried that too
<Lisanna>
what does it say?
<rujavada>
same
<Lisanna>
"warning: not overwriting existing /etc/nixos/configuration.nix"?
<Lisanna>
does it say that exactly?
<rujavada>
yup
<rujavada>
when a create the file myself it allows me though
<boomshroom>
My laptop is ready for action!
<Lisanna>
...and you are confident that /etc/nixos/configuration.nix does not exist
<rujavada>
Just recreated one
<rujavada>
It's empty
<boomshroom>
How can I minimise battery usage when the lid is closed?
<elvishjerricco>
rujavada: Just do nixos-generate-config --root /path/to/some/temp/dir and manually move the resulting files into the right place
<Lisanna>
Sounds like nixos-generate-config needs a bug filed against it then
<Lisanna>
if such a basic usecase is broken
<rujavada>
Done. generated a generic conf
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<rujavada>
Damn i don't remember all the packages.
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<{^_^}>
[nix] @masaeedu opened pull request #1965 → Wrap thread local in function for Cygwin → https://git.io/vxvqv
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<infinisil>
Well I'm still awake even though I said like an hour ago I'd go to sleep
<infinisil>
boomshroom: hibernation
<infinisil>
which won't use any power, at all
<boomshroom>
infinisil: I know that's a thing. I don't know how to use or enable it.
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<infinisil>
boomshroom: you only need swap, preferably more than amount of RAM you have, then `systemctl hibernate`
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<boomshroom>
I don't think my laptop is configured with any swap.
<infinisil>
boomshroom: Run `swapon -s` to find out if you have a swap
<infinisil>
Yeah then you don't have swap and can't do hibernation (unless you add some)
<infinisil>
systemctl suspend (which is what a lid close normally does) is the next best power saving thing
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<boomshroom>
infinisil: Would you recomend a deticated partition, or a ZFS volume? I've reads that you can do swap within a zfs pool and I'm wondering if you have any experience.
<Lisanna>
Cool! I now have a working mkNixBinaryCache function :)
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<infinisil>
boomshroom: I haven't tried it myself, but I heard from other people that using zfs for swap is a bad idea
<Lisanna>
...and it's not even that slow!
<boomshroom>
infinisil: My laptop has 4 GB memory. Would you recommend 5 GB swap?
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<infinisil>
I just got reminded by the internet that the consensus is 2x the amount of RAM to use for swap
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<infinisil>
so 8GB in your case
<infinisil>
I have 8GB RAM and 7GB swap and that's probably why I'm having so many problems with it (even though it occasionally works)
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<Lisanna>
infinisil oh, really? why?
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<Lisanna>
(why 2x)?
<boomshroom>
Unfortunately, my mac partition is so full, I only have 11 GB unused. Using 8 GB for swap (just for NixOS) would only give 3 GB for future mac files.
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<boomshroom>
I understand that pretty much any usage of swap other than for hibernation can slow down the computer a lot.
<infinisil>
boomshroom: Check this link out too ^^
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<infinisil>
boomshroom: Nah, adding swap never makes anything slower
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<Lisanna>
lol wtf
<boomshroom>
That I agree with. Using it means you're going to disk instead of RAM, which is slow.
<Lisanna>
>7GB of RAM => 7GB of swap space
<Lisanna>
>8GB of RAM => 4GB of swap space
<boomshroom>
At least on a hard disk, which my desktop uses but I'm pretty sure my laptop doesn't.
<infinisil>
Lisanna: haha, needs some smoothing
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<infinisil>
boomshroom: no, swap doesn't mean it does to disk instead of ram
<infinisil>
boomshroom: you should probably look up how swap works
<Lisanna>
or you could take starblue's advice: "The square root of the RAM in GB, rounded up to a power of two"
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<infinisil>
Lisanna: that sound nice
<boomshroom>
Sorry, I associate swapping with the grinding noise my hard drive makes when it's under stress.
<Lisanna>
It definitely sounds technical.
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<infinisil>
Lisanna: But.. I need to hibernat, so it needs to be at least the amount of RAM
<infinisil>
boomshroom: that is not correct, you're thinking of thrashing
<infinisil>
which is closely related to swap, but not a direct consequence of it
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<boomshroom>
I'm tempted to try taking my laptop to an Apple store and see what they can do to trim some of the disk usage. They'd probably just tell me to delete the other partitions. :P
<infinisil>
Lisanna: Ah yeah the top answer mentions that swap for hibernation should be about 2 times amount of RAM
<Lisanna>
boomshroom install DaisyDisk, really nice tool for seeing what's taking up your space
<boomshroom>
It seems like 8GB is the recommended amount for 4GB + hibernation.
<Lisanna>
ugh, nix repl doesn't show logs of failed IFDs
<infinisil>
boomshroom: are you using zfs? You could enable compression for it, which helps a lot to reduce usage
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<infinisil>
boomshroom: and you could choose the most space-efficient compression algorithm for it
<boomshroom>
NixOS refused to nixos-rebuild switch when the root was set to compress.
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<infinisil>
refuses? That can't be, nixos shouldn't even know that zfs compresses
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<boomshroom>
infinisil: It probably had something to do with the fact that the configuration was still based on btrfs.
<boomshroom>
Also, 13$?! I'm a linux user! I like my software free!
<infinisil>
Well yeah, then it's not a problem of zfs compression, but one of switching from btrfs to zfs
<boomshroom>
The half off student discount could be nice though.
<Lisanna>
boomshroom you're a mac user and complaining about something being expensive?
<Lisanna>
(I kid, I'm also a macfag ^^)
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<boomshroom>
Lisanna: I have a macbook because I needed to round out the trifecta. Also it's unix so it's automatically better than Windows (I mean, Nix doesn't run natively on Windows.)
<boomshroom>
18GB for a backup of my 3DS SD card.
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<infinisil>
boomshroom: 128GB macbook model?
<boomshroom>
256
<boomshroom>
Wow, the Android SDK is big.
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<dtz>
too big for hydra, I rem seeing something re:that other day
<dtz>
multiple outputs maybe? O:)
<boomshroom>
I just realised I can cast from my desktop to my TV.
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<dtz>
:D
<boomshroom>
Watching a speedpaint set to shin megami tesei music on the TV while my laptop sends a gargantuan tarball to my desktop.
<boomshroom>
The transfer won.
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<dtz>
xD
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs-channels] @edolstra pushed 28 commits to nixos-unstable-small: https://git.io/vxvYB
<{^_^}>
→ d289736d by @knedlsepp: pythonPackages.regex: fix darwin build
<{^_^}>
→ 91a94534 by @knedlsepp: pythonPackages.construct: Fix darwin build
<{^_^}>
→ 57d862fe by @knedlsepp: pythonPackages.discid: fix darwin build
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<boomshroom>
I just freed a good 30GB with 2 files.
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<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @badi opened pull request #36847 → qtlocation: fix darwin build → https://git.io/vxvOZ
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<boomshroom>
How do I set my laptop to hibernate after idle for too long?
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<boomshroom>
Wrong command again.
<boomshroom>
Also, it would be a good idea to export the zpool when powering down right?
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<adisbladis[m]>
boomshroom: Why would you wanna export your pool?
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<boomshroom>
adisbladis[m]: So I could import it when booting into Mac.
<disasm>
infinisil: wiped the machine and rebuilt, this time with luks and no zfsUnstable. On 18.03 finally! I'm pretty sure rebuilding /home and /tmp probably would have solved the problem as well, but I think I'll wait a bit before trying zfsUnstable again.
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<boomshroom>
Woah!
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<boomshroom>
Goodnight!
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<Lisanna>
Can I set the date in the nix sandbox, in order to increase reproducibility?
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<Lisanna>
or, I guess the right word is "determinism"
<MoreTea>
Lisanna: that's a bit tricky, since some build programs depend on timestamps (like make), and they can get confused if all the filestamps are the same.
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<Lisanna>
oh, darn
<MoreTea>
and once you allow different timestamps, you have indeterminism in any case, right? because your build will proably not take exactly as long as mine.
<Lisanna>
yeah, you're right
<MoreTea>
I once made exactly the same suggestion :)
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @bjornfor pushed commit from @ryantm to master « sdcc: 3.6.0 -> 3.7.0 »: https://git.io/vxvZe
<fearlessKim[m]>
I want to override the value of deployment.libvirtd.template to debug_domain so I do ` (libvirtd-local args) // { deployment.libvirtd.template = debug_domain; };` but the result seems not like what I expect. How can I see it ? I tried lib.traceShowVal but it just shows "trace: x is attr set { deployment= }"
<sphalerite>
gchristensen: maybe the topic should be changed to point to samueldr 's logs at https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos rather than botbot, since it still doesn't seem to be fixed?
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<Lisanna>
sphalerite gchristensen I think it should be changed regardless!
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<Lisanna>
clever oh cool, you have that convo saved :)
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<Lisanna>
I should probably bookmark that gist
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<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @volth opened pull request #36851 → [wip] processing3: init at 3.3.6 → https://git.io/vxvl6
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<the-kenny>
I keep my nixpkgs as a symlink to a git repository under ~/.nix-defexpr/nixpkgs. This means I have to prefix all packages with the new `nix` tool with `nixpkgs.`. Is there a common way to get around this prefixing? I can accept either no prefix or `pkgs.` as a prefix :)
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<clever>
Lisanna: my plan is to go thru every example i scraped off irc, and document how each works
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<makefu>
the-kenny: wouldn't it be possible to symlink your <nixpkgs> to ~/.nix-defexpr instead?
<the-kenny>
makefu: likely, but I'm not sure if this will cause any issues
<makefu>
i also saw something like creating a default.nix in this folder with the import 'import <nixpkgs>' as contents
<clever>
makefu: this creates a foo channel, so i can now nix-env -iA foo.hello
<clever>
all nix-env cares about, is that it returns a function, which returns a package set, so you can import any nixpkgs you want, fetched any way you want
<clever>
or have entirely custom package sets
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @rprospero opened pull request #36852 → sasview: init at 4.1.2 → https://git.io/vxv4Y
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<the-kenny>
clever: Thanks! That sounds reasonable. Can you show me your NIX_PATH for completeness?
<clever>
the-kenny: no changes at all to it
<clever>
the-kenny: nix-env is the only tool that reads ~/.nix-defexpr/ and the structure is un-documented
<the-kenny>
ahh
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<makefu>
clever: maybe these quirks could be added to the wiki if it is not really fitting the manual
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<clever>
makefu: that would be a good idea
<clever>
i'm also not sure what nix2 has done with ~/.nix-defexpr/
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<hyper_ch>
hmmm, did something change with spice-gtk? I get: USB redirection error: cloud not redirect ....: Failed to execute child process "/nix/store.....-spice-gtk-0.3.4/bin/spice-client/glib-usb-acl-helper" (no such file or directory)
<hyper_ch>
USB redirection error: Could not redirect ACS CCID USB Reader: Device is in use by another application
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<clever>
makefu: for a more complete explanation of how things work
<clever>
makefu: nix-env will recursively search ~/.nix-defexpr/ until it either finds <name>.nix or <name>/default.nix, and then create a channel with <name>
<clever>
makefu: any directories above that (like test in my example) are basically ignored, but allow you to symlink into dirs owned by other users
<makefu>
go ahead and refine the text, ive just copy pasted your text :D
<clever>
and it will search within it
<clever>
i dont have a wiki acct
<makefu>
you can use your github acc
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<hyper_ch>
makefu: it works
<clever>
makefu: pasted more into it
<makefu>
neat!
<makefu>
i've cleaned up your input :)
<clever>
+1
<clever>
behind the scenes, nix-channel will manage a nix-env profile
<clever>
so when you add/update a channel, it basically just does nix-env -p <foo> -i /path/to/channel
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @zimbatm pushed commit from @Mic92 to master « travis: add update instructions (#36855) »: https://git.io/vxv2J
<Mic92>
more unicode
<sphalerite>
I'm trying to get Agda working, but it says the package is marked as broken. I can't seem to find *where* it's marked as broken though, I don't see anyhting to that effect in pkgs/development/haskell-modules/hackage-packages.nix
<sphalerite>
Any ideas?
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs-channels] @edolstra pushed 23 commits to nixos-unstable-small: https://git.io/vxv2n
<{^_^}>
→ 1c99ffcb by @sifmelcara: librime: 1.2.9 -> 1.3.0
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→ cbf735e3 by @sifmelcara: brise: change platforms to linux only
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→ bb9704ca by @deepfire: ghc841: intern changes to PKGDB, except manual: esqueleto haskell-src
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→ 242e7727 by @Izorkin: dar: 2.5.9 -> 2.5.14
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→ 3bca698d by @Izorkin: dar 2.5.14: fix build on Darwin
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→ 1e4358e5 by @7c6f434c: Merge pull request #35122 from Izorkin/dar-2.5.14
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<aminechikhaoui>
gchristensen: not sure if the nixpkgs-channels updates are really useful ^, since there is already a notification when the channel advances
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<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @garbas opened pull request #36856 → Update vim plugins → https://git.io/vxva0
<makefu>
gchristensen: i really like the new notifications for PRs. maybe we could only keep opened and closed PRs as well as notifications for merges but stip the single commit messages
<{^_^}>
→ 86ca6179 by @Infinisil: resilio: Adjust option description to 3d17573
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→ 9881934b by @Mic92: Merge pull request #36783 from Infinisil/desciption/update/resilio
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @Mic92 pushed commit from @Infinisil to release-18.03 « resilio: Adjust option description to 3d17573 »: https://git.io/vxvax
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<gchristensen>
Good call amine, I can fix that. Makefu, samueldr made it:) suggest that too him?
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<etu>
Oh, it's not the github bot anymore :D
<etu>
nice
<makefu>
what did i do? :D
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<sphalerite>
makefu: we don't need notifications for pushes to nixpkgs-channels
<sphalerite>
err
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<sphalerite>
no what *christensen was saying is you should suggest it to samueldr
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[nixpkgs] @svanderburg pushed to master « nodejs: patch bundled node-gyp module to not invoke xcodebuild on macOS causing modules with native dependencies to fail »: https://git.io/vxvwj
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→ d13c1f06 by @kwohlfahrt: houdini 16.0.671->16.5.405
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→ d4c20ad1 by @nlewo: Merge pull request #36826 from kwohlfahrt/houdini
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[nixpkgs] @svanderburg pushed to release-17.09 « nodejs: patch bundled node-gyp module to not invoke xcodebuild on macOS causing modules with native dependencies to fail »: https://git.io/vxvPb
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<Shell>
Does anyone have any idea how to pick a single .jar out of javaPackages?
<Shell>
I can get junit, but everything else seems to require an extra step, and I’m not quite sure what that step is.
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @svanderburg pushed to release-18.03 « nodejs: patch bundled node-gyp module to not invoke xcodebuild on macOS causing modules with native dependencies to fail »: https://git.io/vxvXG
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[nixpkgs] @limeytexan opened pull request #36859 → perlPackages.PkgConfig: init at 0.19026 → https://git.io/vxv17
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[nixpkgs] @vbgl pushed commit from @maximedenes to master « pythonPackages.sphinx_rtd_theme: 0.1.9 -> 0.2.5b2 »: https://git.io/vxvDT
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<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @garbas opened pull request #36860 → Update vim plugins for 18.03 → https://git.io/vxvD4
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<bkchr>
With the new nix, does the memory usage increase for huge builds? I want to execute a nox-review, but it always dies with "Too many heap sections: Increase MAXHINCR or MAX_HEAP_SECTS". I already tried to set the GC_INITIAL_HEAP_SIZE=8G but that kills my PC, because it uses 14GB RAM. Any ideas what else I coudl change?
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<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @etu closed pull request #36751 → asyncio: move to own directory → https://git.io/vAjGq
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[nixpkgs] @etu closed pull request #36749 → amqp: move to own directory → https://git.io/vAjsg
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @etu closed pull request #36730 → pymongo_2_9_1: Move to own file → https://git.io/vAjJE
<gchristensen>
etu: what's up?
<octe>
1/31
<etu>
gchristensen: Just removed some branches. Nothing much. I will come back with new pr's later that are more organized.
<gchristensen>
ok, cool
<etu>
I was trying to set up a matrix homeserver (with synapse) this weekend and it doesn't work very well :(
<etu>
I get internal server errors back when trying to do federation.
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<etu>
I should probably take it with the guys in #matrix to help me find out what's wrong. But it's probably some dependency issue. Message in journalctl: http://ix.io/W46
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<gchristensen>
X|
<Lisanna>
is it possible for multiple .narinfo files to reference the same .nar in their URL field?
<gchristensen>
I ... don't think so ...
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<etu>
gchristensen: Yeah, I should also move my only ubuntu install to nixos today :)
<Lisanna>
...well, that's what I've got
<Lisanna>
267drk3isaz2iiksk2pp9lyjbdhb42ys.narinfo and 5ji1qznlg9fj2wvf8halyik3namdzan9.narinfo both have "URL: nar/1ydyak3r62j32rwfb1mdp8hxrdsfglaxwq3k6xp7dxsvsnqca5pl.nar.xz"
<Lisanna>
different derivers too...
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<gchristensen>
can you paste the contents of the narinfo?
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<Lisanna>
gchristensen sure, one sec
<ottidmes>
bkchr: Are you sure you are not introducing some recursion somewhere. I have had that error recently, but it was caused by my overlays. In one of my overlays I imported my unstable checkout of nixpkgs, but because how I had setup my overlays, it would apply the same overlays to that nixpkgs, so it would again import the unstable nixpkgs in the unstable nixpkgs because of the overlay, etc.
<bkchr>
ottidmes: Hmm. I also have some overlays activated, but `nixos-rebuild` works.
<disasm>
sphalerite: do you know how I can get pkgs.python27Packages.websocket_client into the PYTHONPATH for weechat with the new changes? This is what I did before that doesn't work on 18.03.
<ottidmes>
bkchr: Maybe not that particular problem, but maybe similar kind of recursion is happening with nox-review (or whatever you call when you run into this error)
<Lisanna>
figured it was something like that
<disasm>
sphalerite: oh, lol, probably should have looked at that first :) sorry!
<bkchr>
ottidmes: yeah. I will need to debug that
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<{^_^}>
[hydra] @edolstra pushed to master « Add a hydra.conf option to enable email notification »: https://git.io/vxvHd
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[nixops] @rbvermaa pushed to master « gce: set set_host_keys to false, to prevent google-instance-setup service from replacing the host key on first reboot. »: https://git.io/vxvHb
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<etu>
aminechikhaoui: You could define a date as version of the package but still use a revision for what to clone, it's a bit nicer to see how old something is
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→ 86058acb by @peti: haskell-ChasingBottoms: drop obsolete override
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→ 83de07c6 by @peti: LTS Haskell 10.9
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→ 1278dba2 by @deepfire: ghc841: bv fix released
<etu>
aminechikhaoui: I usually pick "date-of-commit"
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<gchristensen>
thanks aminechikhaoui!
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @garbas merged pull request #36860 → Update vim plugins for 18.03 → https://git.io/vxvD4
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[nixpkgs] @garbas pushed 2 commits to release-18.03: https://git.io/vxv5F
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→ 11caaec8 by @johnchildren: LanguageClient-neovim: 2017-12-05 -> 2018-03-06
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→ d4fc1a0c by @garbas: vimPlugins: updating all vim plugings
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<aminechikhaoui>
etu: ah good idea
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<etu>
aminechikhaoui: And a rebase on current master seems like a good idea to resolve conflicts :p
<Lisanna>
yay! My Nix CI system now has a declarative binary cache with garbage collection (suck it hydra!!)
<gchristensen>
heck yes!
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<etu>
Hmm, I think I know what's my issue with my matrix-synapse server is now :)
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<etu>
Matrix doesn't support SNI. The proxy I have set up requires SNI.
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<aminechikhaoui>
etu: alright should be fixed now
<Lisanna>
...and right after I finish, eelco points me to perl scripts he wrote forever ago that do the same thing... lol
<etu>
aminechikhaoui: You could have amended the change to your previous commit to not have two commits for "one change", it's still possible to squash but requires some more git magic :) And the merge commit could have been avoided with a rebase :)
<gchristensen>
every program which will ever exist has already been written in perl, probably
<hlolli>
how do I create shell with both runtime and buildtime dependencies, I'm trying to compile app with emscripten and I was hoping that `nix-shell '<nixpkgs>' -A emscripten` could provide my with for example path to $EMSCRIPTEN_ROOT, which would be the buildDeps.
<etu>
aminechikhaoui: But I'm not allowed to merge anyways. I'm just a person with opinions on git usage. :p
<monotux>
hmm, my nftables rules are evaluated before the network is up, is this really intended? my interfaces are not defined then it seems, so loading the rules fails and has to be done manually (which sucks on a router)
<aminechikhaoui>
etu: that's already great :D thanks will do so next time
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<aminechikhaoui>
niksnut: I thought there was a plan to implement https://github.com/NixOS/nix/issues/1968 with dynamoDB for S3BinaryCache for example, isn't that still the plan ?
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @johnchildren opened pull request #36861 → go-langserver: init at unstable-2018-03-05 → https://git.io/vxvbl
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[nixops] @AmineChikhaoui merged pull request #866 → add labels option to be applied to GCE instances → https://git.io/vAezc
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[nixops] @AmineChikhaoui pushed 2 commits to master: https://git.io/vxvbD
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→ 8a8d8572 by @AmineChikhaoui: add labels option to be applied to GCE instances, this seems to be
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<{^_^}>
→ 21955d1f by @AmineChikhaoui: Merge pull request #866 from AmineChikhaoui/gcp-labels
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<pjan>
1
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2
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<monotux>
3
<gchristensen>
uh oh
<clever>
4
<monotux>
dammit
<monotux>
5
<monotux>
\o/
<monotux>
6
<monotux>
ok enough for me
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<LnL>
?
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<hyper_ch>
who uses znc on nixos?
<hyper_ch>
I seem to have znc installed just nicely but no idea how to start it
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<LnL>
use services.znc.*
<ottidmes>
LnL: BTW, about your ?, if you check the minutes, you can see the pattern
<hyper_ch>
if I just run "znc" it says command not found
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<gchristensen>
that isn't so uncommon, enabling a service doesn't mean it is added to your PATH
<hyper_ch>
but I do have a znc binary in /nix/store/xxxx-znc-1.6.5/bin/znc
<LnL>
don't think it's exposed in systemPackages, nothing useful for your shell
<hyper_ch>
so, how to setup znc properly then?
<LnL>
services that don't have a client binary shouldn't do that IMHO
<LnL>
I still have to convert my znc setup to nix, I configured it way back and am scared to touch it now :)
<hyper_ch>
LnL: don't be scared... just do it
<hyper_ch>
and then tell me how :)
<gchristensen>
hyper_ch: you should probably check the logs for the znc service
<hyper_ch>
gchristensen: ah, good idea Mar 12 15:50:28 servi znc-start[11549]: Module [bouncedcc] does not support module type [Network].
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<ottidmes>
I got a question about builders and substituters, right now it seems to just always error whenever one of them is down (e.g. my desktop is a substituter, but it is not always on), is it possible to just ignore it when it is not accessible, I do not mind a warning, but exiting with an error is kind of annoying for this use case (I keep having to edit the nix.conf)
<infinisil>
LnL: I could share my just overhauled znc config, most of it in nix
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<infinisil>
But there's loads of znc modules that store their config in the data directory, and you need to configure it by sending irc messages to special nicks..
<infinisil>
I'd like for nix to handle those too, but I haven't looked into how I could achieve this
<infinisil>
But you still need to run commands to set it up fully
<infinisil>
At least SSL requires you to get some certificate (can be from let's encrypt)
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<LnL>
yeah, the modules is the important part
<hyper_ch>
I set config folder to /home/hyper/.znc so modules should be able to write to there
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<hyper_ch>
-rw------- 1 hyper users 2288 Mar 12 15:58 znc.conf
<hyper_ch>
drwxr-xr-x 2 hyper users 3 Mar 12 15:58 configs
<rauno>
Hey
<rauno>
Is there a way to upgrade NICs driver under nixos?
<rauno>
Or the upgrades come only with new kernel update ?
<stphrolland>
a few months ago, while I was discussing about login screen applications for nixos, and choosing differently from the default SLiM application, someone on this irc forum told me he wrote one in haskell, but I cannot find who or the github repo in question it in my notes. As far as I remember the author told me that there was no GUI yet. Does someone know who is it ? I would like to have a look at the
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<hyper_ch>
pretty stable then :)
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<infinisil>
Oh and clever seems to have contributed too
<stphrolland>
infinisil: many thanks, that is it, I remember the name hsdm now. Nevermind if not active, I need a seed, a start.
<infinisil>
stphrolland: You creating one yourself?
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<stphrolland>
infinisil: trying to understand linux better, trying do something useful in OpenGL for learning... and let's see. Maybe improving the existing or making my own. No plans, just code, learn and see.
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<stphrolland>
that could be the opportunity
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<Yaniel>
a X11 window manager won't be very useful when learning OpenGL
<Yaniel>
a compositor maybe
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<Yaniel>
although I'd rather go for something like a game or level viewer
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @fpletz pushed 3 commits to master:
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→ 488f88a7 by @rycee: screen-message: clean up icon-theme.cache
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→ 85f8b401 by @rycee: screen-message: fix homepage
<{^_^}>
→ bd23e4ea by @fpletz: Merge pull request #36394 from rycee/fix/sm/icon-cache
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<stphrolland>
I was first aiming at learning Wayland, but what I read at the time was heavily based on the OpenGL implementation (if I remember correctly...) so I have to learn OpenGL so as to learn Wayland. And as a personnal taste I'd like a sexy loginscreen, and thought I could achieve that with OpenGL. If not with cairo. But too many things I have not learnt yet, so I have to start somewhere :-)
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<infinisil>
stphrolland: Yeah, I don't think a display manager is the best way to learn opengl. One of the hardest part of a display manager is not the GUI afaik
<Yaniel>
well the problem with a X11 window manager is that they don't really have to draw anything
<Yaniel>
many choose to draw window decorations, though
<roconnor>
Upgraded unstable this weekend, plasma-desktop seems to be dead. Any cache I need to clear out?
<musicmatze[m]>
Can someone please have a look at https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/32710 ? This is a update we should include in nixos 18.03, too... I'm here and ready to squash the PR, just put a short notice in the PR!
<{^_^}>
→ 79f4548a by @johnchildren: go-langserver: init at unstable-2018-03-05
<{^_^}>
→ 4be7395b by @nlewo: Merge pull request #36861 from johnchildren/init/go-langserver-unstable
<infinisil>
octe: what for?
<mjacob>
hi! we want to try nix for our development environment (we got annoyed by different people having different versions of system packages etc.). one developer insists on having everything inside a (s)chroot. is there an easy way of creating a new chroot environment containing only nix?
<niksnut>
yes, nix --store /my/chroot ...
<mjacob>
niksnut: but how can we bootstrap nix then? the starting point is an operating system with no nix at all
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @peterhoeg opened pull request #36864 → nixos ddclient: support multiple domains and run via systemd timer → https://git.io/vxfmh
<niksnut>
hm yeah, that's not possible atm
<niksnut>
would be a nice feature for the installation script
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @peterhoeg opened pull request #36865 → nixos mosquitto: run in foreground so we get logging data → https://git.io/vxfYE
<mjacob>
niksnut: what installation script exactly?
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<mjacob>
niksnut: if you tell me how to get started, i might try to add this feature
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<rawtaz>
mjacob: sorry but dont you just boot an installation or liveCD or similar?
<clever>
niksnut: this generates an arx bundle containing the closure of nix and a basic shell env, run sh on it to install, and then you have a full non-root mount namespace in ~/nix-install along with a script for entering the namespace
<clever>
niksnut: main issue i ran into, is that nix doesnt have a way to serialize a set into a .nix file, so i cant generate a manifest.nix, which means `nix-env -i` wont work right
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<monotux>
silly question, but I'd like to change a systemd-script (nftables) to have it run _after_ the network is up. how would you do it?
<clever>
monotux: i think theres an after field in the systemd config on nixos, for each service
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<monotux>
oh, I'll see what I can find in the documentation then
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<Lisanna>
`lib.unique [ { a = lib.unique; } { a = lib.unique; } ]` => [ {...} {...} ]
<Lisanna>
!!!!!
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<Lisanna>
`{ a = lib.unique; } == { a = lib.unique; }` => false
<Lisanna>
wtf
<manveru>
(a: a) == (a: a) #=> false
<Lisanna>
x_x
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<catern>
is there a generic way in nixpkgs to express that two packages can't exist in the same closure?
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @rycee pushed commit from @volth to master « perlPackages.ClassAccessorFast: alias of perlPackages.ClassAccessor »: https://git.io/vxfGv
<catern>
or I guess, that two packages are incompatible?
<clever>
roconnor: something in your profile had qt-base in the propagated-user-env-packages
<clever>
which makes nix-env silently act as if you had directly nix-env -i'd qt-base
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<lexokay>
dudes,
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<roconnor>
clever: any idea which one?
<lexokay>
whatcha gonna do if source url domain became unavailable in nix-expression from nixpkgs ? Your cache buildmachine and users will be unable to built it and get the app?
<clever>
roconnor: check the entire nix-store -q --tree ~/.nix-profile/ to see what depends on that version
<catern>
lexokay: there is a tarballs.nixos.org mirror of all the tarballs used by nixpkgs
<lexokay>
roconnor, well, I just think there must be distribution solution, like distro repo server that clones all sources of all packages and keeps them. that would be protection from such failure where upstream remove source or abandon domain name
<roconnor>
catern: surely only those build by hydra.
<catern>
roconnor: yes
<roconnor>
not quite the same as everything in nixpkgs ;)
<roconnor>
goibhniu: wait, somehow i didn't apply this fix.
<lexokay>
the upstream url AFAIK unavailable, and domain probably changed
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<lexokay>
atm I could install nixos.caudec package from binary cache, but I doubt it could be built from the source now (prove me wrong)
<roconnor>
ah there was an error in my nix-env command
<Mic92>
Does somebody has an example project for nixos vm tests + travis ci?
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<goibhniu>
lexokay: do we really want abandoned software in nixpkgs?
<jluttine>
i'm using spacemacs for haskell programming. some error checker complains about an import that the module could not be found. however, it is installed in the environment and if i launch haskell repl in spacemacs, it loads the module just fine. any ideas what could be wrong?
<roconnor>
goibhniu: whew okay it really works now!
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<srhb>
lexokay: Kind of ruins the example, but... nix-build -E 'with import <nixpkgs> {}; fetchurl { url = "http://caudec.net/downloads/caudec-1.7.5.tar.gz"; sha256 = "5d1f5ab3286bb748bd29cbf45df2ad2faf5ed86070f90deccf71c60be832f3d5"; }'
<lexokay>
goibhniu you maybe (or someone else) don't want. But I do want support ability to run proprietary abandonware in linux
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<srhb>
I'm assuming that's a mistake though :P
<la_putin>
when zsh itself executes it loads /usr/lib/zsh/5.4.2/zsh/newuser.so then executes setup_ and finish_ right?
<goibhniu>
roconnor: \o/
<roconnor>
nixpkgs doesn't have to be the only repository of nix packages.
<roconnor>
this is why channels exist.
<monotux>
https://hastebin.com/rinexicemo.pl <-- how do I make sure that before and wants lists are _not_ merged with the default definitions? I'd like them to be empty
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<lexokay>
srhb hmm, thank you
<catern>
roconnor: does anyone actually use channels to provide multiple repositories of nix packages
<catern>
why would anyone do that rather than provide overlays
<roconnor>
no, but it would be awesome.
<srhb>
lexokay: You may want to google tarballs.nixos.org also, for information on how/why this works.
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<srhb>
(In most cases, anyway, not this specifically)
<roconnor>
why do you mean by an overlay?
<catern>
nixpkgs supports overlays
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<goibhniu>
lexokay: ah, I doubt we can keep proprietary code on tarballs.nixos.org
<monotux>
anyone? I guess that it's a pretty common issue :/
<srhb>
monotux: I forget how lists merge, but usually only the highest priority definitions are merged for attribute sets, perhaps it's the same?
<srhb>
monotux: (In which case, lib.mkForce [])
<lexokay>
FOSS tarballs would be fine, if only they would have end-user browser fronted UI
<roconnor>
oh, overlays the idiom I introduced into nixpkgs-haskell from Dave Cunningham. Yay it is nixpkgs wide.
<roconnor>
catern: yes, you'd probably use an overlay, but distribute binaries through a new channel.
<monotux>
srhb: ah, I'm trying to do this in my system configuration if it matters
<srhb>
monotux: So essentially, each value has a priority attached and only the highest priority values (of the same priority) end up in the final list.
<monotux>
thanks for the help, this has been bugging me for some time
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<srhb>
monotux: mkForce is basically just mkOverride (some high priority) value
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<Baughn>
So I want to test the impact of an stdenv change... What's recommended?
<Baughn>
I could quite possibly rebuild all of nixpkgs, but it'd take a week.
<clever>
Baughn: what exactly are you changing?
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<Baughn>
I'd like to run the build phases in subshells.
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<clever>
Baughn: ive found that some builds set bash vars in each phase, and expect it to spread to the next phase
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<clever>
so i would expect that to break a lot
<Baughn>
Ahh. Yes, that's one of the things I wanted to check.
<Baughn>
Never mind, then.
<manveru>
what's the benefit of subshells? making sure the cwd doesn't change?
<clever>
manveru: pushd and popd can manage that without subshells
<Baughn>
Isolation in general. A more predictable environment.
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<manveru>
if anything, i would like to have each phase in a derivation :)
<manveru>
but that'd be almost impossible...
<clever>
manveru: at one point, the chrome derivation had its unpack&patch phase in a dedicated derivation
<hlolli>
is there no way to use `nvm` node version manager on nixos? I have multiple cases where I need to jump between versions, even within major versions of node. But I believe the problem is libstdc++6.so not being found.
<srhb>
manveru: You're touching upon some of the "build-caching" things that have been explored by some people already
<clever>
manveru: it took hydra 12 hours to transfer the unpacked source from a build slave back to the master
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<clever>
manveru: and hydra doesnt schedule things to slaves that have given paths, so it took another 12 hours to push it back out
<manveru>
hlolli: usually you use nix-shell for that
<gchristensen>
clever: maybe fixable with that prefer-local-build thing?
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<clever>
gchristensen: hydra cant do local builds
<hlolli>
manveru: yes, I'm most likely tripping on beginner pitfalls. But as an easy question, how would I run node 9.8.0 now on nixos?
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<manveru>
i think the latest in nixpkgs is 9.7, so you'd make your own version
<hlolli>
9.7 should be fine, but I added nodejs nixos-rebuild switch, and I had version 6x.
<hyper_ch>
LnL: I successfully migrated znc to nixos :)
<roconnor>
pierron: I'm watching your nix-con 2017 talk of overlays. It's great that it is come so far. I thought you might be interested in the early history of overlays.
<hlolli>
symphorien: that's a FAQ, nice, I guess I'll be asking more FAQ, but the right question is sometimes tricky to determine :)
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<infinisil>
hyper_ch: yeah you posted it before too
<hyper_ch>
LnL: infinisil: channels with just # don't need to have it in the channel list, channels with two ## like ##rtorrent need 1 # like #rtorrent
<symphorien>
Don't be afraid to ask, even if it is in the faq
<Myrl-saki>
Uhhh
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: nah, it's changed :)
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: yeah i know
<pierron>
roconnor: early history?
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<mjacob>
lewo: the other developer has it's development environment in a chroot anyway. what he did now was to install a normal debian in the chroot (schroot can do it automatically) and use the official nix installer script
<Myrl-saki>
I have a 4-core system and I nix-built -j5 for a Haskell project.
<Myrl-saki>
Err
<Myrl-saki>
-j20
<roconnor>
pierron: It started in 2014 when I was trying to understand how _override worked in nix because it seemed impossible. I wrote up http://r6.ca/blog/20140422T142911Z.html after understanding it.
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<Myrl-saki>
Wait, let me check my load statistics.
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: so what problems did you have with znc?
<Baughn>
I wonder what would happen if I run the nix installer work steam-run...
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: lots of modules have stateful configs
<roconnor>
pierron: I was discussing this with Dave Cunningham at the time and he came back to me with an "object-oriented" version of this override methodology.
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: don't they write it into the znc config folder that you provide?
<hlolli>
symphorien: thanks, it worked, nice to have unstable in let binding and refer to is specifically!
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: Ah i confused it a bit there
<infinisil>
there are settings in the global config file
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: :)
<infinisil>
but there are also module settings that are stored deep down in the directory structure
<infinisil>
those you can't set with nix
<infinisil>
(with the current znc module)
<hyper_ch>
well, I don't need that probably
<mjacob>
lewo: but there's actually a point in keeping it separate. last time i installed nix on my machine it ended up mixing my system's PATH with nix's PATH, which was very annoying
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: I thought so too in the beginning but it's actually really useful, some modules are nice
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<pierron>
roconnor: Nice to be able to trace that down :)
<pierron>
roconnor: and good preliminary work!
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<pierron>
roconnor: now we have to rewrite Nixpkgs, to use a single fix-point :P
<Myrl-saki>
I have a 4C4T i5 and an SSD, should I nix-build -j8 on a Haskell build? Often times, on -j4, when I tab to the terminal, it's in the configure phase, so I don't think it's CPU bound?
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<pierron>
infinisil: That's the first time I got such a quick approval on such a bold statement.
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: I've used znc for a long time... I just need basic bnc function
<roconnor>
pierron: it seems that slowly this idea of Dave's has been working it's way through the nixpkgs ecosystem. I don't know how to trace it from then to today because I haven't been paying close enough attention.
<infinisil>
Myrl-saki: haskell dependency trees often have some tight spots where lots of things are waiting for a big subtree to finish
<clever>
Myrl-saki: the dependency tree doesnt always allow it to do things in parallel
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<roconnor>
I didn't realize it was already so far reaching
<Myrl-saki>
clever: I'm more concerned about the configure phase taking longer than the build phase.
<pierron>
roconnor: Nixpkgs rewrite to use the extension mechanism is from 2015, IIRC, after the failed attempt of Mathnerd to get it accepted.
<Myrl-saki>
Is the configure phase CPU extensive?
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<infinisil>
pierron: Hmm, wait what do you mean by that exactly though? I'm actually not thinking of a single fixed point, but using submodules (and therefore more fixed points) for all sorts of stuff in nixpkgs, packages, functions, etc.
<Myrl-saki>
s/extensive/intensive/
<clever>
Myrl-saki: i think it depends a lot on the package
<Myrl-saki>
I may have had too much coffee right now.
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<Myrl-saki>
clever: What affects the configure phase?
<ambro718>
What do I need to do to make nixops work on nixos-unstable which uses Nix 2.0? I get this error in deploy: error: attribute 'nixosVersion' missing, at ...
<Myrl-saki>
clever: I mean the CPU usage of the configure phase
<pierron>
infinisil: I mean a single fix-point to have a single syntax for writting/extending packages, and no more override* function
<clever>
Myrl-saki: for autoconf based projects, there is a lot of useless checking of things like the size of an int, which the stdenv could be caching
<srhb>
ambro718: Build a newer version or shim in the missing modules yourself.
<infinisil>
pierron: I'd like to use the module system to pass arguments to functions, to configure packages, configs for packages
<clever>
Myrl-saki: for haskell projects, there isnt much in the configure phase
<pierron>
infinisil: multiple fix-point would be a nightmare.
<ambro718>
srhb: which version?
<Myrl-saki>
clever: Right, but it's taking some time, around 2-5 seconds.
<infinisil>
pierron: Yeah this might be a problem..
<{^_^}>
→ 903f4dd3 by @vbgl: clingo: fix build on non-sandboxed darwin
<{^_^}>
→ fb5815ba by @7c6f434c: Merge pull request #36871 from vbgl/clingo-fix-url
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<clever>
Myrl-saki: ah, one problem ive noticed, nixpkgs wants to compile Setup.hs, and the linking can be rather slow
<Baughn>
Is 18.03 going to include Nix 2.0? I notice it's still marked as unstable.
<pierron>
infinisil: what I proposed is SOS, which implies a single fix-point, and a single syntax for override, and the same syntax for packages definitions.
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<infinisil>
pierron: And this performance problem is still there for even a small amount of included modules?
<Myrl-saki>
clever: Is there a point of improvement on that?
<srhb>
Baughn: Yes, and it's released already, despite the funny numbering
<clever>
Myrl-saki: potentially, we can just runhaskell Setup.hs
<Myrl-saki>
clever: I'm not familiar with the Haskell build system, much more with Haskell+Nix.
<pierron>
infinisil: yes, this overhead is per-option.
<srhb>
Baughn: (I think the numbering is mostly a hydra artifact, really...)
<infinisil>
pierron: Hmm.. Okay I had some pretty crazy idea that could solve that
<clever>
Myrl-saki: compileBuildDriverPhase is what compiles it
<pierron>
infinisil: Before you attempt any rewrite of the module system, please look carefully at what it does ;)
<infinisil>
pierron: And this idea is to build an interpreter in nix for an almost nix-like DSL. This DSL could be turned into a "compiled" form of nix code.
<pierron>
infinisil: many tried …
<pierron>
infinisil: you mean a JIT ?
<infinisil>
pierron: I am fairly familiar with the module system :)
<Myrl-saki>
clever: runHaskell is interpretation though, right?
<pierron>
infinisil: are you sure? :P
<infinisil>
pierron: Nah not a jit
<mjacob>
i have a problem with "nix-channel --update": "warning: unable to download 'https://nixos.org/channels/nixpkgs-unstable': Problem with the SSL CA cert (path? access rights?) (77); retrying in 283 ms"
<Baughn>
Why in *Nix*?
<clever>
Myrl-saki: yes, but 99% of the time, Setup.hs is 2 lines: import Distribution.Simple ; main = defaultMain
<j6c667f>
pierron: and this performance problem is still there for even a small amount of included modules?
<Myrl-saki>
clever: Right.
<clever>
Myrl-saki: i suspect (but havent confirmed) that the defaultMain is already compiled and will run fast even in runhaskell
<Baughn>
mjacob: Are you by chance on OSX?
<Myrl-saki>
clever: OTOH, what is Setup.hs?
<mjacob>
Baughn: no, arch linux actually
<clever>
Myrl-saki: its a wrapper around cabal, that allows a package to extend cabal
<Baughn>
mjacob: Ah. They're usually the ones with the cert errors. Well... :X
<Myrl-saki>
clever: Ah.
<Baughn>
mjacob: When was the last time you updated?
<clever>
Myrl-saki: the 2 line default i gave above compiles into a binary that is basically identical to cabal, so you can just `./Setup configure` or `./Setup repl`
<Myrl-saki>
Also
<Myrl-saki>
clever: Ahh
<infinisil>
pierron: Kinda hard to explain what I mean, don't have a lot of time right now either
<mjacob>
Baughn: on this specific machine, i just installed it
<Myrl-saki>
clever: That makes more sense.
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<mjacob>
Baughn: curl '<that url>' work BTW
<clever>
Myrl-saki: but a custom Setup.hs could do extra stuff in the configure
<roconnor>
pierron: BTW, I disagree with using super.writeText over self.writeText. IMHO, you should basically always use self.foo because you want to access the late-bound version of the package so that later overalys can override. Ony when overriding a package is super approprate.
<pierron>
infinisil: maybe later ;)
<infinisil>
pierron: But in addition to being able to "compile" an almost nix-like DSL, it allows for typing nix too!
<Baughn>
mjacob: The Nix tools generally try to be as isolated as at all possible. It won't use the system CA store.
<pierron>
roconnor: the reason for that is the security-update branch.
<Baughn>
mjacob: The error is odd. This is probably the time when I'd pull out `strace -ffe open`.
<roconnor>
pierron: But, based on the comments at the end of your talk, it seems to be an issue of great debate.
<infinisil>
pierron: And by typing i mean actual typing
<infinisil>
without any additional nix syntax
<Baughn>
Which may or may not work these days.
<Myrl-saki>
clever: What things can it be used for? Getting hardware info to optimize the binary?
<pierron>
roconnor: which gives a new semantic to the self:super: names, which are more in line with the way packages are built.
<roconnor>
oh
<clever>
Myrl-saki: i think things like native dependencies that cabal doesnt understand
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<la_putin>
is there anywhere i can view detailed patch info for packages, like what needed to be changed in order to be compatible with nix os
<Myrl-saki>
clever: Oh
<clever>
Myrl-saki: ive seen one package use Setup.hs to pre-download and build a c++ project from source, so the ffi code could link into it
<clever>
"your package manager is crap, let me do that for you"
<Myrl-saki>
Also, I actually found a nice use-case for Nix.
<clever>
"oh, your package manager turned off the network"
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @rycee pushed commit from @ryantm to master « bibutils: 5.6 -> 6.2 »: https://git.io/vxf2F
<ambro718>
I can't get nixops master working, I changed the nixopsUnstable derivation in nixpkgs to use fetchgit, but it first gives me some version error then later fails with a mysterious error that also involves the version. https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/5GbdHBSMpX/
<clever>
ambro718: an issue is already open on nixops, and i think Baughn commented on it
<Myrl-saki>
I have 2 "packages"(they should really be one, but it's better to keep them separate.) I can make a "meta-package" that compiles the both of them and then places the results in a single directory.
<Myrl-saki>
I used to use a build.sh, now I can just use a default.nix.
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<pierron>
roconnor: If you have not followed the security update PR, I highly recommend you from reading the introduction of it.
<Baughn>
mjacob: Yes, figures. That trace obviously doesn't include the curl invocation. I figure it's being run as a nixbld user.
<Myrl-saki>
It was a cabal+stack+bash build, now it's just cabal+nix.
<roconnor>
pierron: link?
<Baughn>
So, via RPC rather than forking
<infinisil>
pierron: short explanation: building an AST in nix with functions that look like the real thing, checking that ast with a type system, then running a nix generator over that to produce faster code without all type checks
<Baughn>
mjacob: Not sure. Honestly, I'm not sure what the state of your system is. That listing was way too short, so we're probably talking about a bootstrap scenario...
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<Baughn>
mjacob: Did the Nix installer finish successfully? Either way, it might be an idea to delete /nix and reinstall.
<Baughn>
Though if the standard Nix installer now includes build users (and I think it does) then there's extra cleanup to be done. Which may or may not matter.
<mjacob>
Baughn: yes, i tried that several times. i have another idea, let me try this...
<srhb>
ambro718: That expression is not made to just build using the git sources, but a preprocessed tarball that hydra produced.
<roconnor>
pierron: some day i need to have a deep dive with you on this topic. AFAIK replace-runtime-dependencies is the best we can possibly do without recompling the universe. I don't understand how your security propoal isn't the same as simply adding a security-updates overlay to the end of the package set which ends up recompiling the universe in case bash or gcc has a security update.
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<ambro718>
what's the easiest way to make a derivation that just runs a shell script and does no post-processing? Currently having issues because it wants srcs?
<srhb>
runCommand?
<Baughn>
runCommand.
<pierron>
roconnor: for that we would have to disintguish "self" into dynamically linked packages and statically linked packages.
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<ambro718>
thanks
<pierron>
roconnor: but this is doable.
<pierron>
roconnor: the way it works is by being able to extract dynamically linked packages from the list of inputs.
<{^_^}>
→ edef3444 by @knedlsepp: petsc: fix darwin build
<{^_^}>
→ a431a65a by @LnL7: Merge pull request #36833 from knedlsepp/fix-petsc-on-darwin
<pierron>
roconnor: if there is any differences then you get a patching package which replace theinputs by the patched inputs.
<pierron>
roconnor: the goal is to avoid the compilation of packages to know how to fix them.
<pierron>
roconnor: thus a security update should only recompile the minimal set of packages which depend on it.
<pierron>
roconnor: and all the patching happens locally.
<roconnor>
patching means replace-runtime-dependencies?
<pierron>
roconnor: a security fix, will recompile all the statically linked packages.
<mjacob>
Baughn: apparently, the nix post-install script of my distribution's package wasn't run properly
<mjacob>
Baughn: anyway, it works now; thank you for your help and time!
<Baughn>
mjacob: Ahh. What did you do instead?
<pierron>
roconnor: yes, except that the list of "runtime dependencies" is computed at "recipe-time"
<pierron>
roconnor: before having compiled anything.
<roconnor>
And you believe you can differentiate between statically linked dependencies and dynamically linked dependencies? Automatically?
<pierron>
roconnor: Thus, giving thr ability to only share the delta, and not the result of all the patched packages
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<pierron>
roconnor: not automatically, but this can easily be verified at the end of the compilation.
<pierron>
roconnor: this can be verified automatically
<mjacob>
Baughn: i'm not sure. basically i tried reinstalling it a few more times ;)
<roconnor>
I'm skeptical, but I guess I need to look into this more carefully. Thanks for all your work!
<roconnor>
(I was pretty skeptical of _override back in 2014 too ;)
<roconnor>
(turns out it was awesome)
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<jluttine>
haskell package ghc-mod has been broken for quite some time in unstable
<jluttine>
oh, there's an issue about it already :+1:
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<pierron>
roconnor: I tried with someone else in the London meetup, and we converge to the same solution.
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<roconnor>
fascinating
<aristid>
pierron: you're nbp! always confusing when people change their nicks :D
<pierron>
roconnor: I guess the biggest blocker for most people is to consider that Nixpkgs could be a single function, and get them to understand how packages inside this function behave differently when provided different inputs.
<pierron>
aristid: yes, I wish I could change my nick on freenode …
<pierron>
aristid: but someone else hold it at the moment.
<aristid>
pierron: oh you're still nbp when that is possible :D
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<pierron>
aristid: on irc.mozilla.org, yes
<aristid>
i could swear you used to use that nick here too. anyways, don't mind me please, continue discussing actually relevant things :)
<pierron>
aristid: I will answer, I do highlight it.
<pierron>
(which is sometimes painful when people are pasting sha …)
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<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @LnL7 pushed commit from @knedlsepp to release-18.03 « petsc: fix darwin build »: https://git.io/vxfie
<Myrl-saki>
sphalerite: Wait, I think I know what's happening. My ./. has build artifacts, and I think the timestamp messed with the rebuild detection.
<sphalerite>
oh yes, that's always fun
<sphalerite>
lib.cleanSource :)
<sphalerite>
although that probably won't catch the specific artifacts in this case
<infinisil>
It's unusable. Although clicks get registerd immediately, what it displays is at like 0.1 FPS
<sphalerite>
Myrl-saki: oh and *~. Goal being to minimise duplication and space consumed by files that are irrelevant to the build
<Myrl-saki>
sphalerite: Ah. :P
<sphalerite>
Myrl-saki: you can use filterSource with your own filter, possibly using lib.cleanSourceFilter as well, to adapt it to your use case though
<infinisil>
It's an nvidia graphics card, and I am using the nvidia driver
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<infinisil>
Anybody have a clue?
<Myrl-saki>
sphalerite: That's also what I was thinking. How about haskellPackages having its own .cleanSource?
<sphalerite>
infinisil: does it work with nouveau? If so, complain to nvidia :p
<hlolli>
I'm getting unable to open display ":0.0" after connecting with networkmanager via wpa_supplicant and dhclient. I wonder if this is connected to my /etc/hosts but I have networking.hostname="localhost"; in my config.nix, am I missing something?
<infinisil>
sphalerite: Oh yeah I'll try that
<alexteves>
is there a nix-darwin equivalent for non-nixos linux?
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<sphalerite>
alexteves: closest I know of is home-manager
<mpickering>
Has anyone ever proposed extending meta.platforms to indicate whether a package is either known to not work on a system or just hasn't been tested?
<mpickering>
I feel like I spend a reasonable amount of time trying to work this out
<sphalerite>
hlolli: what's giving thi serror?
<hlolli>
sphalerite: any program that needs xserver, firefox, xrandr etc..
<hlolli>
also HexChat, but I decided to open it before connecting to the internet :P
<alexteves>
sphalerite: thanks, sounds like a start
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<sphalerite>
hlolli: that is very odd! Not sure what to make of it…
<sphalerite>
hlolli: oh actually, is the hostname still "localhost" after connecting? Check the output of hostname
<hlolli>
sphalerite: you mean echo $HOSTNAME ? Well it's empty
<infinisil>
mpickering: you mean like a per-architecture broken attribute?
<sphalerite>
hlolli: no I mean `hostname`
<sphalerite>
infinisil: no, that's what meta.platforms is already
<infinisil>
Hmm right..
<hlolli>
spahlerite: the bin hostname exists, I run it and it's empty
<mpickering>
Ofborg should test this from now on for new packages
<gchristensen>
whats that?
<sphalerite>
hlolli: and before connecting I presume it outputs localhost
<mpickering>
That the meta.platforms attribute it set correctly.
<mpickering>
*is
<hlolli>
I'd need to restart, be back in 1 min..
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<mpickering>
The changes look good from yesterday to indicate different failure modes, thanks gchristensen
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<gchristensen>
what is it that should be tested?
<gchristensen>
oh, you're saying it already dose?
<gchristensen>
does*
<mpickering>
a lot of packages have "platforms.linux" when they also build on darwin
<mpickering>
because they didn't test on darwin
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<gchristensen>
ah
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<hlolli>
sphalerite: yes that fits, hostname reuturn value is empty after starting the internet
<sphalerite>
hlolli: that does sound like a bug. I'm guessing it's handling it the same as if hostname were set to null, which means "localhost until a hostname is assigned via DHCP"
<sphalerite>
hlolli: a twofold bug, in fact; Firstly networking.hostName = "localhost"; not working as expected, and secondly X applications breaking on the hostname change that DHCP causes
<hlolli>
sphalerite: hehe, that's nasty. It happens at 'sudo dhclient wlp2s0`
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<sphalerite>
hlolli: as a workaround you should be able to do `sudo hostname localhost`, but it's definitely worth reporting the issue at https://github.com/nixos/nixpkgs/issues
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<hlolli>
sphalerite: thanks for the workaround, nice! Yes, will open a ticket!
<roconnor>
Is there a recommended article for reading about the new nix 2.0 and how to take advantage of it?
<infinisil>
sphalerite: the right way to make it use nouveau is `services.xserver.videoDrivers = mkForce [ "nouveau" ];`, right?
<infinisil>
It doesn't work, at all, using nouveau doesn't even make it start the display-manager
<infinisil>
Oh wait, maybe it uses the other display, which i need to turn on, hold on..
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<infinisil>
Nope, both screens are black with nouveau..
<infinisil>
And I thought it's supposed to be a failsafe fallback..
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<sphalerite>
infinisil: just don't set the nvidia option
<hlolli>
infinisil: did you ever get `[XORG] (EE) /dev/dri/card0: failed to set DRM interface version 1.4: Permission denied` when trying to optirun, just reading about your sruggles with nvidia.
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<ottidmes>
infinisil: vesa should work, but your goal is not to just have a working screen, but to have your GPU working properly, then I would have had some suggestions if it was about an AMD card
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<paraseba>
did nix-serve stop working recently? I'm getting 'invalid character in Base64 string at /nix/.../nix-serve.psgi line 42' since the last update. It seems to fail trying to base64 encode a signature
<paraseba>
maybe there is some more robust alternative to nix-serve?
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<aristid>
i've got a remote build error, probably related to nix 2.0: error: cannot add path '/nix/store/bqnf8g8b2vgin4hk0y6qiwy7ribc1y5i-linux-config-4.14.26' because it lacks a valid signature
<ottidmes>
aristid: I assume you are running Nix 2.0
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<ottidmes>
aristid: And I assume you got the error when using a substituter or some other mechanism to get a store path from a remote store?
<aristid>
ottidmes: i use nix.distributedBuilds nixos option
<ottidmes>
aristid: Alright, then you will have to add the secret key of the nix store on the builder to secret-key-files in the nix.conf of the builder
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<ottidmes>
aristid: You can generate one with nix-store if you do not already have a key pair
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @LnL7 pushed to master « libcdio: fix darwin build »: https://git.io/vxfbB
<sphalerite>
strange, I don't seem to remember that being necessary for distributed builds for me
<ottidmes>
aristid: The public key will need to be added to the nix.conf (trusted-public-keys) of the machine using the builder
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<lejonet>
Hmm, is there anyway to force nixops to recreate a user, if you've changed it a little bit?
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @LnL7 pushed to release-18.03 « libcdio: fix darwin build »: https://git.io/vxfby
<lejonet>
sphalerite: I'll try that and see what happens
<aristid>
ottidmes: uh, how do i tell nixos-rebuild to NOT do remote builds so i can fix this? :D
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<sphalerite>
lejonet: for home setting mutableUsers to false should do it. For the password, https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/36493 ; I'm not sure what the status of this is exactly, if it's expected but poorly documented behaviour or a bug.
<lejonet>
sphalerite: its most likely mutableUsers = false; I want anyway, as the main source of users, except system users and 1 local debug user, is going to be LDAP
<ottidmes>
aristid: Once you have setup the secret key option, secret-key-files, in the builder, all new paths will automatically be signed with these keys, but existing store paths will not, so you have to do this initial signing yourself: nix sign-paths --all --key-file <secret-key-file>
<roconnor>
do you folks hardware.pulseaudio.enable = true?
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<sphalerite>
aristid: or you could build the system locally before running nixos-rebuild like `nix build -f '<nixpkgs/nixos>' config.system.build.toplevel`
<aristid>
sphalerite: error: you are not privileged to build derivations
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<ottidmes>
aristid: Note that you have to add the public key for cache.nixos.org to trusted-public-keys as well, it has this by default, but if you set it yourself, the default will be overwritten, so you have to add this explicitly
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<sphalerite>
aristid: as root then I guess
<aristid>
sphalerite: wtf
<aristid>
i always used to be build to nix-build as any user
<sphalerite>
aristid: the issue is the --builders '' option
<aristid>
sphalerite: huh?
<infinisil>
Oh my god, /boot full..
<infinisil>
Never going to use a mere 100MB for /boot ever again
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<roconnor>
infinisil: don't worry it happens all the time to me.
<roconnor>
you need to delete some system profiles.
<sphalerite>
aristid: if it weren't for that you could do it as an unprivileged user, but then it would try to use the remote builders. But since you can pass arbitrary builders using --builders, it can only be overridden by trusted users
<aristid>
infinisil: on nixos, you need to give more space to anything nixos-related
<infinisil>
roconnor: yeah
<lejonet>
infinisil: I once set 32MB for /boot on a system... I could barely fit 2 kernels xD
<aristid>
sphalerite: so i should make my main user trusted
<aristid>
sphalerite: why doesn't nixos-rebuild take the --builders option?
<sphalerite>
aristid: yeah, although I'm guessing you will usually want to use the remote builders so it won't be necessary most of the time
<ottidmes>
infinisil: 512MB is too, I have only had it full once, that was after constantly rebuilding and testing initrd's without garbage collecting them
<infinisil>
Um, I can't seem to free any space on /boot
<roconnor>
infinisil: I usually move kernels to /tmp
<sphalerite>
aristid: it should! Not sure if this is an implementation bug or a todo, but it would definitely be worth opening an issue if there isn't already one
<roconnor>
and then do a nixos-rebuild boot
<infinisil>
I ran `sudo nix-collect-garbage --delete-older-than 3d`, and `sudo /run/current-system/bin/switch-to-configuration boot`
<roconnor>
Granted this isn't robustly safe.
<sphalerite>
yeah you'll probably need to remove some manually
<infinisil>
But the second command gives me cannot copy /nix/store/9v8lwhclnvbwbykx66spx20d3mphr4ph-initrd/initrd to /boot/kernels/9v8lwhclnvbwbykx66spx20d3mphr4ph-initrd-initrd.tmp
<ottidmes>
aristid: Why not just edit nix.conf like I suggested, remove the builders option, done, I have used it often to temporarily disable substituter because of different kind of errors
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @fpletz pushed 0 commits to staging-17.03: https://git.io/vxfAL
<roconnor>
infinisil: collecting garbage isn't relevent. You need to remove old profiles.
<infinisil>
roconnor: But shouldn't delete-older-than take care of that?
<infinisil>
It worked in the past
<sphalerite>
aristid: what you should be able to do is pass --option builders '' to nixos-rebuild
<roconnor>
oh does it?
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<sphalerite>
roconnor: yes, nix-collect-garbage is a bit of a misnomer.
<sphalerite>
it removes old generations of *all* profiles on the system
<sphalerite>
if you pass -d or --delete-older-than
<roconnor>
oh neat.
<roconnor>
I mean dangerous, but also neat :D
<sphalerite>
I prefer manually deleting gens with nix-env --delete-* and then gcing with nix-store --gc
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<sphalerite>
gchristensen: any chance of getting the logs link in the channel topic switched to samueldr's?
<ottidmes>
I just make sure I have a working system, and then just gc everything, but only when my free space drops to low (which is shown in my taskbar, so I can prevent out of space errors before they happen)
<gchristensen>
link?
<samueldr>
I can make it respond to another domain name if it's getting more official
<sphalerite>
samueldr: congrats on your place in the topic ;)
<samueldr>
yay!
<samueldr>
though, it's a tiny bit concerning if botbot is feeling sick
<samueldr>
I mean, it's not a nixos-exclusive tool
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<sphalerite>
yeah a bunch of people have been complaining about it in #lincolnloop
<sphalerite>
so far it looks like it's just dying
<LnL>
hey
<samueldr>
my bot is open for any nix and nixos-related channel that wants logs
<infinisil>
sphalerite: is there a difference between nix-collect-garbage and nix-store --gc?
<gchristensen>
hey, LnL
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @oxij opened pull request #36881 → [Request For Testing] pkgs: libpulseaudio -> libcardiacarrest; nixos: override when running a daemon → https://git.io/vxfAj
<sphalerite>
infinisil: nix-collect-garbage is just a thin wrapper around it that also has gen-deletion
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<sphalerite>
nix-collect-garbage(1): The command nix-collect-garbage is mostly an alias of nix-store --gc, that is, it deletes all unreachable paths in the Nix store to clean up your system. However, it provides two additional options: […]
<ottidmes>
samueldr: Awesome, your logger has sane support for searching! The builtin search of the browser worked very poorly if not at all with the botbot.me logs. And it has a good search itself it seems, awesome!
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<sphalerite>
ottidmes: botbot has a working search as well
<samueldr>
for me it was hit or miss, especially when coming from a google result
<infinisil>
Alright I finally solved my problem by deleting individual profiles with `sudo nix-env -d /nix/var/nix/profiles/system --delete-generations <numbers here>`
<{^_^}>
→ 47c7ad14 by @lloydhazlett: spideroak: 6.1.9 -> 7.0.1
<{^_^}>
→ 0d703ec3 by @fpletz: Merge pull request #36844 from lloydhazlett/spideroak-7.0.1
<ottidmes>
sphalerite: It never worked properly for me, really frustrating if you find exactly what your are searching for, but still have to search manually for the right location
<sphalerite>
but yes I like the UI!
<infinisil>
Oh and then a garbage collection
<roconnor>
infinisil: you can also do --delete-generations 3d
<manveru>
samueldr: you need some logs for the history?
<infinisil>
roconnor: that didn't work for some reason
<roconnor>
you don't need to do garbage collection. :)
<sphalerite>
infinisil: TIL nix-env -d (as opposed to the long form --delete-generations) exists
<samueldr>
manveru: I decided that going further than 2017 wasn't as helpful as I thought, but if it's becoming official, I may want to look into that
<infinisil>
And I needed to remove some kernels manually after than, then sudo /run/current-system/bin/switch-to-configuration boot
<infinisil>
sphalerite: It does? I can't find anything in the manpage
<sphalerite>
the bootloader scripts could probably do a better job of handling out-of-space conditions.
<samueldr>
I think it may be appropriate to go both ways, log into the same / similar format, and import those
<roconnor>
I suppose switch-to-configuration boot might work too.
<manveru>
samueldr: ah cool, i have them since about 2014 :)
<infinisil>
roconnor: Are you coconnor too?
<roconnor>
no
<samueldr>
so I'd be missing 20160722~~2017
<infinisil>
roconnor: heh weird
<samueldr>
up to 2016-11-22 looks like
<samueldr>
not much!
<sphalerite>
infinisil: oh right I misread your command, you put -d /nix/var/nix/profiles/system (I'm guessing you meant -p /nix/var/nix/profiles/system)
<infinisil>
Alright ZFS question: I have a mirror, but everytime I reboot, one of the disks is offline and I need to manually online it, and then it resilvers it. What do i need to do so that both disks are available at boot?
<infinisil>
sphalerite: Ah yeah, mistype
<samueldr>
sphalerite might like the fact that it works without javascript :)
<aristid>
sphalerite: lol, now i need to find a way to trigger a remote build to test if my fixed setup works. the only problem: most stuff is in binary cache :D
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<sphalerite>
samueldr: well I run firefox in a fedora chroot on my chromebook now :p
<sphalerite>
aristid: override it! :D
<aristid>
sphalerite: i... think chromiumBeta works for my purpose :D
<sphalerite>
aristid: or go with something nonfree
<samueldr>
hmm, the dillo output is... artistic, but readable
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<sphalerite>
yeah
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<aristid>
sphalerite: it... it's building locally *SAD*
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<sphalerite>
infinisil: that's weird, does it say why it's offline?
<ottidmes>
aristid: Is it not potentially building remote, so what if you set max-jobs to 0, will it then build remotely, would at least be a test
<sphalerite>
ottidmes: it usually prefers the remote builders over building locally so at least *something* should build remotely
<{^_^}>
→ a0cc592c by @jfrankenau: wireguard: 0.0.20180218 -> 0.0.20180304
<{^_^}>
→ ce23a71e by @fpletz: Merge pull request #36818 from jfrankenau/update-wireguard
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<aristid>
i guess i need keys in both directions
<aristid>
because it needs to upload the inputs to the server
<sphalerite>
I don't see what sort of historical reasons could be behind that — since specifying remote builders has always been necessary for distributed builds to work
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @fpletz pushed 4 commits to release-18.03: https://git.io/vxfhQ
<{^_^}>
→ 9dbc7639 by @srhb: nixos/tests/acme: use mail-test-srv tls certs from source
<{^_^}>
→ 665c75ec by @srhb: nixos/tests/acme: go compat update, unvendor pkcs11
<{^_^}>
→ 60d6d53e by @lloydhazlett: spideroak: 6.1.9 -> 7.0.1
<sphalerite>
aristid: or just log in as a trusted user on the server
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<sphalerite>
more reliable, since the outputs on the client side might not be signed by a key trusted on othe remote builder
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<robstr_>
After playing arround with my configurations, I receive `Configuring ghc-mod-5.8.0.0... Setup: Encountered missing dependencies: hlint >=2.0.8 && <2.1` BUT this worked before, I did a complete `nixos-rebuild switch` Has someone an idea ?
<Myrl-saki>
clever: Ping (no need to pong if you're not here rn)
<aristid>
sphalerite: that seems to work
<robstr_>
sphalerite: lol... thank you
<aristid>
heh "warning: dumping very large path (> 256 MiB); this may run out of memory"
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<Fare>
I don't understand what I need to do to make ssh-substituter-host work
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<Fare>
it tells me imported archive of â/nix/store/ha76pwcs24b0lislbhw41pn3nddlwii5-gerbil-unstable-2018-03-10â lacks a signature at /run/current-system/sw/bin/nix-copy-closure line 106.
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<sphalerite>
Fare: probably same problem as aristid was having — you need to use a trusted user on the remote end
<sphalerite>
wait, ssh-substituter-host?
<Fare>
what's a "trusted user" ? One who can sudo without password?
<sphalerite>
I think that's superseded by builders now
<sphalerite>
no, one in trusted-users in nix.conf
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<aristid>
Fare: you probably switched to nix 2.0 very recently, too? :D
<aristid>
sphalerite: i do feel a bit uneasy making "nixbuildfarm" a "trusted user" :D
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<aristid>
but i guess if i wanted to avoid that, i'd need to set up hydra
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<roconnor>
aristid: when you guys are done let me know what I need to do to set-up my remote builds for nix-2.0 :D
<{^_^}>
→ 1beda3fc by @sveitser: vim-solidity: init at 2018-02-11
<{^_^}>
→ 07f908f5 by @fpletz: Merge pull request #36863 from sveitser/vim-solidity
<sphalerite>
!doesanyoneuse
<{^_^}>
Don't ask if anyone uses software xyz, just ask your specific question. This helps solve your problem quicker, and allows people who haven't used xyz but may still be able to help you to do so.
<sphalerite>
wilornel: ^
<roconnor>
I'll delete these old keys now so I don't confuse myself.
<sphalerite>
you might need very garbas-specific knowledge here, idk, but maybe you should just ask rather than needing 3 roundtrips to get to the actual question :D
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @fpletz pushed commit from @AmineChikhaoui to master « pcstat: init at 2017-05-28 (#33643) »: https://git.io/vxJUE
<infinisil>
Everybody with a ZFS setup please check out the above PR (https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/36882), it's important that this gets tested properly, it affects all ZFS users
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<aristid>
infinisil: if i already have forceImportRoot = false; and forceImportAll = false; ... does this mean i have tested your PR? :D
<infinisil>
aristid: Indeed! Drop a comment indicating that :)
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<aristid>
infinisil: done
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<sphalerite>
infinisil: maybe poke the mailing list as well
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<hlolli>
what's the syntax for loading an unstable dependency into the nix-shell, my intuition is `nix-shell -p alsaLib -p mpg123 -p <nixos-unstable>.node-9_x` but that wont cut the mustard
<infinisil>
sphalerite: good idea
<sphalerite>
brb rebooting to try it :)
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @fpletz pushed 4 commits to release-18.03: https://git.io/vxJTo
<{^_^}>
→ d6986819 by @phryneas: gitkraken: 3.3.4 -> 3.4.0
<{^_^}>
→ b9cfe0ce by @dywedir: hplip: 3.17.10 -> 3.17.11
<{^_^}>
→ 0cc00017 by @symphorien: wxhexeditor: 0.22 -> 0.24 (#36832)
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<hlolli>
btw (unrelated to my unstable dep question above) I got nvidia working on my laptop, first time in years I've seen nivida propirotary driver running on linux. Two pitfalls: 1 the Card bus in lspci is hex but should be given to nvidia config as decimal. And a Screen section needs to be defined with identifier used by Card section. Just shareing success story :)
<aristid>
hlolli: hmm, setting up the nvidia card in my desktop was far easier
<sphalerite>
hlolli: you shouldn't usually need to pass any options manually at all
<hlolli>
well, it wouldn't find the device, then didnt find any available screens. The speed of which I was recompiling retesting the bumblebee compilation is insanely fast compared to when I was struggling with this in Fedora days.
<{^_^}>
→ 2dfbef27 by @abbradar: dfhack: fix checksum
<{^_^}>
→ 5e9e3079 by @abbradar: xgboost: disable on AArch64
<{^_^}>
→ 5ed883a4 by @abbradar: warsow: 1.03 -> 2.1.2
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<boomshroom>
Hello!
<boomshroom>
I don't have much time, but I'm trying to offload a rust build to my desktop and the ssh connection is failing because `serialised integer 7161674624452356180 is too large for type 'j'`. What is that about and where did that number come from?
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @abbradar pushed 4 commits to release-18.03: https://git.io/vxJkp
<{^_^}>
→ 8f7a7dfb by @abbradar: xgboost: disable on AArch64
<{^_^}>
→ 99901537 by @abbradar: dfhack: fix checksum
<{^_^}>
→ 0f558b07 by @abbradar: warsow: 1.03 -> 2.1.2
<boomshroom>
Also, the nix daemon keeps running out of memory.
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<infinisil>
Oh no, my mail account isn't properly set up on my mac, can't send mails :/
<infinisil>
Yes I managed to live for all my time on linux without sending mails, imagine that
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<ottidmes>
boomshroom: I got that error as well
<ottidmes>
boomshroom: The fix for me was that I was using a ssh user without a proper shell configured, so nologin was used to pass the command to, and apparantly that results into a response that Nix daemon then fails to parse
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<infinisil>
Alright I sent an email to the mailing list
<infinisil>
Anybody else I should ping for ZFS related things?
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<sphalerite>
between the mailing list and the pings on the github issue I think it should be good :)
<sphalerite>
oh maybe clever too (cleverca22)
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<infinisil>
sphalerite: Do you know if people still get pinged when i edit a comment and add their username?
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<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @nioncode opened pull request #36884 → p4v: init at 2017.3.1601999 → https://git.io/vxJLP
<mjacob>
nix-env tries to write to some global profile directory, which my user is not allowed to. how can i create a user-specific profile?
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→ dde80d70 by @Ericson2314: qtbase: Fix x86_64-conditional logic
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→ eeb8419c by @Ericson2314: ceph: Fix --with-file-aio logic for new meta.platforms and cross
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→ 79d8353b by @Ericson2314: treewide: Make `shouldUsePackages` copypasta use meta.available
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[nixpkgs] @svanderburg pushed to release-18.03 « nodePackages: regenerate with node2nix 1.5.3 »: https://git.io/vxJOk
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<hlolli>
after adding pulseaudio override, I can't rebuild, despite deleteing that override and rolling back (via nix-env --rollback ..). Error is: error: attribute ‘buildPerlPackage’ missing
<hlolli>
my attemt to rollback was nix-env --rollback -p /nix/var/nix/profiles/system`
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→ a4f53eae by @xeji: jfbview: mark as broken (upstream issue)
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→ cede1032 by @fpletz: Merge pull request #36654 from xeji/jfbview-broken
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[nixpkgs] @svanderburg pushed to release-17.09 « nodePackages: regenerate with node2nix 1.5.3 »: https://git.io/vxJOV
<makefu>
hlolli: normally you can use nixos-rebuild switch --rollback but your command should have the same effect. can you show the override you wanted to do?
<hlolli>
yeh, and I this wasn't even the reason for the bug I was trying to fix. The switch --rollback will keep the error appearing, despite how many rollbacks I do.
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→ db2b3067 by @xeji: torque: fix build w/gcc7
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→ 6a5cb56a by @fpletz: Merge pull request #36820 from xeji/p/torque
<hlolli>
another thing I did besides this override was running `nix-env -i` thinking that it was sore of source of information, there's a clear error no idea if connected
<hlolli>
error: Package ‘Agda-2.5.3’ in /nix/store/cbq8y13iv06hxgn3vl7qh8w3xnrs0s46-nixos-17.09.3146.084445b8f38/nixos/pkgs/development/haskell-modules/hackage-packages.nix:752 is marked as broken, refusing to evaluate.
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[nixpkgs] @bjornfor pushed commit from @ryantm to release-18.03 « sdcc: 3.6.0 -> 3.7.0 »: https://git.io/vxJ3g
<hlolli>
but I'm not even useing haskell
<manveru>
hlolli: use `nix-env -iA`
<hlolli>
manveru: ok I see.
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<hlolli>
But this is my trace from `nixos-rebuild switch --show-trace` https://pastebin.com/i6kGQf4P I could open ticket, no stress actually
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→ 876420f0 by @YorikSar: bitcoin-unlimited: fix build with boost 1.66
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→ c26f9600 by @fpletz: Merge pull request #36835 from YorikSar/fix-bitcoin-unlimited
<infinisil>
hlolli: Well it's not a syntax error, but it will give an error when evaluated
<infinisil>
So if you're not getting an error then it's not evaluating it
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<hlolli>
ok, I was just somehow trying to get the unstable nodejs-9_x into my env so that I could make a shell with it via `nix-shell -p nodejs-9_x` would be any variable for that matter. Just need to read the manual better :)