<clever>
ldlework: returns a list without any keys
<ldlework>
ah
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<andrewrk>
in a nix package what do I import to get e.g. `"/nix/store/rww78vdn2rkayrnqsjl8ib5iq2vfm3sw-gcc-6.4.0/lib/gcc/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/6.4.0"`
<andrewrk>
as an example to get "/nix/store/yydnhs7migvlbl48wpsxan1yvq2icbr9-glibc-2.25-49/lib" I would use ${stdenv.cc.libc}/lib
<clever>
andrewrk: pkgs.gcc.cc
<clever>
stdenv.cc is a bash script wrapping gcc
<clever>
but stdenv.cc.cc is the real gcc
<clever>
andrewrk: what do you need that path for?
<andrewrk>
to that specific directory? the one that has crtbegin.o
<clever>
why do you need crtbegin.o?
<andrewrk>
a compiler that wants to know where the system libc is
<clever>
gcc should just find it automatically
<andrewrk>
zig cmake configuration line is supposed to have the path in it
<clever>
that will append it to the bash variable at build time, rather then doing it at eval time
<andrewrk>
thanks
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<adisbladis>
infinisil: Cool! Any drawbacks so far?
<andrewrk>
when creating a nix package: /nix/store/rww78vdn2rkayrnqsjl8ib5iq2vfm3sw-gcc-6.4.0/include/c++/6.4.0/cmath:45:23: fatal error: math.h: No such file or directory
<andrewrk>
do I need to manually include libstdc++ in the buildInputs?
<andrewrk>
I have `glibc` in the buildInputs
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<clever>
andrewrk: you need to make sure the compiler obeys $NIX_CFLAGS_COMPILE
<clever>
which has the -I paths based on your buildInputs
<ldlework>
if I have an Option like this, https://gist.github.com/dustinlacewell/2c06287a587f33a3a8a7459343f1816d which produces an attrset of source-filename -> target-filename, how can I in the config then do something with each attribute such as running a line like this for each? home.file."the output file".source = build { source="the input file"; };
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<jluttine>
are there instructions on how to create a patch file with git for nix packaging patches list?
<yurrriq>
LnL, puffnfresh, et al.: Turns our remote building is broken on my personal machine with nix-daemon too.
<yurrriq>
*out
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<yurrriq>
I even tried docker save/loading the old lnl7/nix:ssh image my personal machine has to no avail.
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<yurrriq>
Should I even use nix-daemon? It seems to cause me a fair amount of trouble and I’m the only user on both systems..
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<ldlework>
I have an Option which produces a list of derivations. The derivations do not output any content to write to $out, etc. How can I get this list to evaluate?
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<ldlework>
Right now I am rendering the list to a string and writing it out to a random file, but I don't need this...
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<yurrriq>
Aside: I’m trying to push for Nix adoption at work, if for nothing other than building our Docker images in a CI pipeline. Are there any good guides for running your own (private) cache? We could put it on our VPN so with doesn’t need to be an issue.
<yurrriq>
jluttine: nix patches are just normal patches but you maybe need to pass -p n depending on what your file tree looks like
<MichaelRaskin>
Do you still insist Common Lisp is suitable for shell-like scripting and beyond?
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<MichaelRaskin>
Fare: (if yes, I will probably write an email with some questions)
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<nixo[m]>
MichaelRaskin: why not?
<hyper_ch>
MichaelRaskin: you handle lots of bug reports, right?
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<andrewrk>
when I run steam: mkdir: cannot create directory ‘/nix/store/1d33k248c4k72icgj4q6rxkwggvp2ghv-steam-fhs/steamrt/pinned_libs_32’: Read-only file system
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<andrewrk>
anyone know the fix?
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<clever>
andrewrk: once something in the store has been built, its read-only and can never be modified
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<sphalerite>
andrewrk: a bit heavy-handed unfortunately but iirc removing .local/share/Steam fixes it
<sphalerite>
There's probably a less painful fix, but trying to reason with proprietary software has never been fun...
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<MichaelRaskin>
hyper_ch: not really many
<hyper_ch>
no worries :) got already answered
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<MichaelRaskin>
nixo[m]: Well, depends on how far you want to go beyond the primitive stuff. SBCL signal handling is more complicated than bash signal handling, for example. And Ctrl-c is a signal.
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<nixo[m]>
MichaelRaskin: fair enough
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<ylwghst>
j /#sway
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vbgl pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vddX2
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 68ed8f6 Vincent Laporte: ocamlPackages.camomile: 0.8.5 -> 0.8.6
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<LnL>
yurrriq: I _still_ have not tested it, but looking at the script I would expect it to work with sudo $(cat .../env) nix-build ...
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vdd1U
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master b244e57 Frederik Rietdijk: python.pkgs.django: make gdal support optional
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 7f43dd3 Frederik Rietdijk: Merge pull request #30254 from FRidh/django-gdal...
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<hyper_ch>
any systemd unit-creation gurus here? :)
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<infinisil>
I have done a few, what do you want?
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: ^^
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: well, for some reasons, zsf send | recevie to external usb fails after about 100GB
<hyper_ch>
so I thought I just attach the external usb 3 drive as mirror - that works fine
<hyper_ch>
however, when powering down, and later powering up again, it's set to unavailable and if I set it to online, it mostly starts resilvering everything
<hyper_ch>
so I thought, I write a systemd unit file that will set it to offline before powering off the notebook... but for some reason it doesn't properly work
<nixo[m]>
Hi guys, you probably know about librem-5, do you think it will be easy to run nixos on it?
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: See `man systemd.unit` for this stuff
<hyper_ch>
yeah, trying different things :)
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<infinisil>
nixo[m]: I ordered it :D. Not sure about NixOS on it though, I'd think it would be a pain to get it to work, and there's no mobile DE on nixos afaik
<infinisil>
it would be pretty dank though and I'd love to try it
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<adisbladis>
infinisil: Plasma mobile might be able to run
* adisbladis
ordered it too
<infinisil>
\o/
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vddSv
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 26b7a68 Frederik Rietdijk: bitcoinarmory: use buildPythonApplication...
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<xificurC>
hello, I am trying to get spectrwm to work under ubuntu xenial (my work pc). It mostly seems to work (in it right now) but apps installed through nix aren't working. I get "error while loading shared libraries: libX11.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"
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<clever>
tazjin: at a glance, it looks like it will only do something if there is a reference to system.build.toplevel-docker
<clever>
tazjin: and the code doesnt even exist in the latest master
<tazjin>
clever: yeah it seems to have been some short-lived experiment / POC
<tazjin>
in fact the commit message says it was a POC
<clever>
yeah
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<clever>
and the fact that the option was just docker-containers, without any of the normal prefixes
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<deliciousmayo>
hi, I'm a bit confused, how would I go about installing a Haskell package (executable), that is not available on hackage? Would I have to create a new derivation and run all the cabal/stack build stuff there and copy the executable somewhere on my PATH? Or is this a bad idea, and I should just use the generic way of building and putting everything in ~/.local/bin?
<clever>
deliciousmayo: if you make a derivation using cabal2nix, you can then install it with nix-env, and it will be available in PATH
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<deliciousmayo>
and if I'd want in available globaly and install through configuration.nix? Or is this a bad idea in general?
<clever>
deliciousmayo: then you can just load it in configuration.nix and pop it into systemPackages
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<clever>
deliciousmayo: environment.systemPackages = [ (pkgs.haskellPackages.callPackage ./foo.nix {}) ]; on the result of cabal2nix
* clever
heads to bed
<deliciousmayo>
ah, ok, thanks a lot, this makes sense
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<Mic92>
does somebody else has experienced more crashes with firefox 56?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nix] edolstra pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vddb2
<NixOS_GitHub>
nix/master 3294070 Keshav Kini: Mention C++14 dependency in the manual....
<aminechikhaoui>
but will soon get back to it to finish it
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: you're a nixops guru, right?
<Mic92>
aminechikhaoui: Just saw that. Looked like a lot of work you did there. For my use case creating it manually is good enough for the moment.
<aminechikhaoui>
Mic92: yeah it's basically most of the VPC related resources plus few improvements to state/config diff handling. Would be nice if I can finish that soon ;)
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<nixo[m]>
infinisil: ordered it too. I was hoping to get nixos on it, i'd love to sync configs between server/home/mobile
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<Mic92>
aminechikhaoui: do you know how I can assign an elastic ip to an instance, which requires a VPC?
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<Mic92>
aminechikhaoui: ok looks like I also need your PR for that
<Mic92>
aminechikhaoui: would you consider it usable at the moment?
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: Heh, I wouldn't say so, I just started actually using it a few days ago
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: can you deploy it to any server.. like Ihave a root server in a dc
<hyper_ch>
or does it only work with stuff like vbox, ec2, azure?
<infinisil>
Well you need nixos on it and root
<hyper_ch>
so why then use nixops if you can just put a configuration.nix on that server?
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<infinisil>
Because it's annoying to always ssh to the server, do rebuild there. And my local machines config is tightly linked to the server, with nixops i can change the 2 configs at the same time
<Mic92>
hyper_ch: you only need to build certain packages ones
<hyper_ch>
that sounds interesting... I guess I'd have to give it a try then
<infinisil>
Another benefit is that the server is really shitty ($5/month), so it takes a ton of time to build the system config there
<infinisil>
with nixops it gets built locally
<infinisil>
I know I could use the --build-host option but still
<mbrock>
what does it mean when nix-instantiate prints out a path suffixed with "!bin"?
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<adisbladis>
hyper_ch: You can make sure that a whole deployment is consistent for one.
<Profpatsch>
garbas: I don’t have the needed permissions for that repo.
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: so did you already write a starter's guide to NixOps in the wiki?
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: Nah, but it's dead simple tbh
<infinisil>
I'll gladly walk you through the very few steps
<hyper_ch>
(as is quantum physics for physicists
<infinisil>
Heh yeah
<mbrock>
I rent a server more powerful than my laptop. Maybe my laptop should be a NixOps slave...
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: first still need to get rt-ps running
<hyper_ch>
only after that I can concentrate on other things :(
<ma27>
Profpatsch: just removed the `WIP` prefix
<infinisil>
mbrock Then I'd just use the server as the build host
<Profpatsch>
ma27: Ah hi. :)
<ma27>
if there;s anything else to be done, just ping me :)
<ma27>
hi :)
<mbrock>
infinisil: ah yeah, that'd be cool
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<joko>
Hello, I would like to test the building of a Python package, e.g. nix-build -E 'with import <nixpkgs> { }; callPackage ./pkgs/development/python-modules/numpy { blas = pkgs.openblasCompat; }' , could anyone tell me the right way? :)
<joko>
The command above mentions "anonymous function at ... called without required argument ‘buildPythonPackage’"
<aminechikhaoui>
Mic92: yeah it's kind of usable, of course I won't advise using it for any critical stuff but it should just work
<Mic92>
aminechikhaoui: just some benchmarks for my paper
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<infinisil>
joko: I think you need the pythons callPackage thing
<aminechikhaoui>
Mic92: cool, if you get any issues just drop a comment in the PR or ping me ;)
<infinisil>
joko: pythonPackages.callPackage I think
<srhb>
droplet is digitaloceans name for their (smaller?) vms
<Rembane>
For all vms
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: They don't provide nixos droplets, so you need to use something else to boostrap
<hyper_ch>
ok
<infinisil>
debian is completely wiped after this guide :)
<hyper_ch>
I know that
<etu>
hyper_ch: "droplet" is DO language for "vm"
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to staging: https://git.io/vdFeh
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/staging 9f24090 Vladimír Čunát: wt: fixup build by using older boost again...
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<hyper_ch>
why don't they call a vm a vm?
<hyper_ch>
oO
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<etu>
Marketing
<etu>
I think
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<infinisil>
etu: I mean, there's also the whole integration with their other stuff
<infinisil>
volumes, private networking
<infinisil>
and you can create e.g. 10 same droplets
<infinisil>
for load balancing or so
<etu>
Yeah, sure
<infinisil>
I feel like droplet is a nice name for that, but yeah they're just vms really
<etu>
A drop in the digital ocean...
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<infinisil>
Btw, I met keta_suki today, he's actually studying at the same place as me. clever helped him just 2 days ago with nixos, he's also using home-manager
<infinisil>
Like damn, that coincidence
<infinisil>
Hi keta_suki!
<keta_suki>
infinisil: yeah this totally rocks. hi there
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<infinisil>
hyper_ch: I know you're from switzerland too, even living very close to my place ;)
<hyper_ch>
you don't know where I live... or do you...
* hyper_ch
thinks someone is stalking him
<adisbladis>
infinisil: Creepy :O
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: You told me before
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<fearlessKim[m]>
libvirt pyhon bindings name is kinda awkward "libvirt-python-3.6.0" . Wonder if it's worth aliasing to more conventional python-3.6-libvirt
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: :)
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to staging: https://git.io/vdFfU
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/staging 0e339ca Vladimír Čunát: clickhouse: fixup build by using older boost again...
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<adisbladis>
infinisil: Are you spying on other ppl too?!
<garbas>
Profpatsch: let me merge that PR and check if i can give away permissions
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<garbas>
Profpatsch: i think you should have the permissions to merge the PRs now (in nixos-hardware repo)
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<garbas>
i assume you are in nixpkgs committers group which I just gave Write permissions
<joko>
I am packaging some py files and I would like to change their interpreter, should I use substituteInPlace or is there something more automated?
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<Profpatsch>
garbas: Thanks!
<symphorien>
joko: there is patchShebang
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<gchristensen>
it is so cool how many different people, with no prodding at all, contribute patches to the nix pills
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<gchristensen>
and not even a kvetch about it being docboo
<adfaure>
Hello, I am building closure (using nix-store --export). So far it works well but I want to export a derivation build from pkgs.buildEnv. Right now, the only way I found to build that env is to activate it (using nix-env -i) and then find the derivation. Is their a more cleaner way ? Thanks for the help!
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<rui1>
Any easy way to get octave with stuff like the signal package on NixOS?
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<infinisil>
adfaure: have a look at the --query example section in the nix-store manpage
<infinisil>
And nix-instantiate can be used to only make the .drv s
<infinisil>
And there's nix-store -q --deriver /nix/store/outputpath to get the .drv to an output
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<nh2[m]>
elvishjerricco: hey, did you get haskell-ide-engine to work in the end in `nix-shell`?
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<betaboon>
hello. another day another problem to solve: when using nixops to deploy containers to localhost ssh://root@localhost is used. i don't like allowing root-ssh. what are the options? any ideas?
<hyper_ch>
what's wrong with root-ssh?
<tilpner>
betaboon - You are using nixops to manage the same machine you run nixops on?
<infinisil>
betaboon: You need root
<infinisil>
and what's so bad allowing root to ssh to itself on localhost :P
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<rui1>
I'm on NixOS, using i3, and having some important problem
<rui1>
When I choose the nvidia driver explicitly and reboot, the screen remains black
<rui1>
When I choose another (leave it as default), it works, BUT
<rui1>
then I can't start most programs
<rui1>
So, when I try to run, e.g, chromium, I get:
<guillaum2>
Is it considered bad to write a derivation where the version is passed as an argument (with a default value). This way, overriding version number is as simple as ".override({version = "xxx"})" instead of the complexe overrideAttrs needed because we also need to override name, src and possibly sourceRoot.
<gchristensen>
certainly unorthodox
<disasm>
just so I understand this correctly, propagatedBuildInputs are only propagated to what includes them, not what includes, them that includes, them, right?
<disasm>
so if a has propatagedBuildInput x and b has buildInput a and c has buildInput b a and b will have x available but not c.
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<guillaum2>
gchristensen: unorthodox, but do you see any drawback? Will my pull request with this kind of change will be accepted?
<gchristensen>
guillaum2: I would probably ask you to change it back, but it also probably depends on who is reviewing your PR
<disasm>
I have seen some weird ones (although not in nixpkgs) where version and sha are passed so a user can easily update the package, but I wouldn't recommend it.
<guillaum2>
disasm: ha, yes, I did not thought about sha.
<gchristensen>
it is a very brittle construct
<guillaum2>
I'm sad that there is no way to reevaluate a derivation with a new value inside it.
<infinisil>
guillaum2: what do you mean?
<spacefrogg>
guillaum2: But there is. You can use overrideDerivation
<gchristensen>
there is, overrideAttrs does that, its just the variables are dereferenced before you get to it
<guillaum2>
gchristensen: yes, that's the issue. spacefrogg: I'll have a look.
<infinisil>
Ahh yeah
<disasm>
infinisil: is my understanding of propagatedBuildInputs correct above?
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<infinisil>
disasm: Hold on, parsing your sentences
<guillaum2>
spacefrogg: overrideDerivation documentation says: "A package's attributes are evaluated *before* being modified by the overrideDerivation function."
<spacefrogg>
yes. you'd have to override the complete src attribute.
<infinisil>
disasm: I think that's correct yeah
<LnL>
disasm: if I read it correctly, yes
* infinisil
goes to look for the source
<disasm>
I thought they were propagated infinitely, but this PoC proves otherwise :)
<LnL>
except if the store path of c ends up in b in some other way
<infinisil>
disasm: I mean you do have x which is propagated "infinitely", right?
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<infinisil>
And about native vs non-native, i forgot that part, I've asked that like 3 times before here
<pierron>
steveeJ: no, we are not
<nixngo>
I just installed nixos on my HPelitebook, I did a 500mb efi partition on /dev/sda1, a 3gb boot partition for the kernels and stuff on /dev/sda2 and a 200+ gb partition for root encrypted with luks all set up and working. my problem is that my system refuses to boot. after mountting everything again i found out that /mnt/boot/efi is empty. I think i need to manually install EFI now but don't know how. grub
<nixngo>
is set up in /mnt/boot and was installed propperly. I also found in my boot options that I can, and have to, set a custom boot path. I don't know where it should point to. I'm trying to fix this since days with no success. plz hlp!
<infinisil>
nixngo: You ran nixos-generate-config after creating and mounting all filesystems?
<nixngo>
writing from my lenovo thinkpad atm which i have beneath.
<nixngo>
yes
<steveeJ>
pierron: in our environment we have an issue with rls being installed from stable. previously I added in rls from nightly but now it is shadowed by the stable one, which is broken (by design)
<nixngo>
and nixinstall went smooth
<nixngo>
after configurating the nixos/configuration.nix
<infinisil>
nixngo: did you set boot.loader.grub.efiSupport ?
<nixngo>
yes
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<infinisil>
are the encrypted disks in hardware-configuration.nix under boot.initrd.luks.devices?
<nixngo>
yes
<infinisil>
And /boot and /boot/efi as well?
<infinisil>
Do you have boot.loader.efi.efiSysMountPoint set to "/boot/efi" ?
<infinisil>
Default is /boot
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<nixngo>
that could be my mistake
<nixngo>
i didn't set it
<infinisil>
I see, that might be it
<infinisil>
You don't need separate partitions for /boot and /boot/efi btw
<nixngo>
maybe that is why /boot/efi is empty even after mounting it
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/vdFc1
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 4d85689 Dmitry Kalinkin: xxHash: init at 0.6.3.20171018
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master e885fbc Joachim F: Merge pull request #30543 from vyp/upd/idrispackages.lightyear...
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<steveeJ>
pierron: I don't think it's worth the effort of changing the extension mechanism. when I make a custom derivation just with rls from nightly and mix it with stable rust, rls is not able to do anything because all the crates like std aren't compatible
<nixngo>
btw I'm already using nixos on my desktop pc and I'm loving it so far. nix-shell is perfect for my projects! I was using gentoo for the last 10 years because it was the only way for me to develop with lots of different versions of several packages. now its NIXOS ALL THE WAY, but I need to get it running on my HPelite laptop :)
<infinisil>
Nice :D
<infinisil>
It also took me some time to get it to work on my laptop, but that's mainly because I had no idea about linux in general
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/vdFWc
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 717436b Samuel Leathers: gitea: init at 1.2.1
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 66201d4 Samuel Leathers: gitea: add nixos service module
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 3c62474 Joachim F: Merge pull request #30528 from disassembler/gitea...
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<betaboon>
nixngo: just doing the exact same path :D
<betaboon>
except the model of laptop ofc xD
<nixngo>
betaboon: nice to hear <3
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<kuznero>
Hi All! How do I control ldconfig when creating a new package ?
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<kuznero>
Should this be enough: `substituteInPlace Makefile --replace ldconfig ${stdenv.cc.libc}/sbin/ldconfig` ?
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<infinisil>
kuznero: Did you try it without? There's a default makefile patcher i think
<kuznero>
infinisil: this was just an example, I need to patch custom bash script, not Makefile
<kuznero>
I am trying something like this now: --replace "LDCONFIG_COMMAND=\"/sbin/ldconfig\"" "LDCONFIG_COMMAND=\"${stdenv.cc.libc}/sbin/ldconfig\""
<kuznero>
But not sure if I escape " correctly
<kuznero>
When I am in nix-shell already how do I call to `substituteInPlace` ?
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<infinisil>
kuznero: Have a look through nixpkgs for ldconfig usages (I use ripgrep for that)
<infinisil>
It seems that ldconfig doesn't really work on nixos
<infinisil>
i have no idea what that even is, but that's what i got from where ldconfig appears in nixpkgs
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<nixngo>
do I maybe need to disble fast boot? I also changed the UEFI boot entry to \EFI\BOOT\BOOTX64.EFI maybe this can help, but it is still not booting
<sphalerite>
nixngo: yeah I think fast boot is a windows-specific thing
<infinisil>
Yeah, and maybe have a look at efibootmgr
<infinisil>
efibootmgr -v
<kuznero>
Thanks, but is there any way to call substituteInPlace from bash while in nix-shell? I need this for troubleshooting my default.nix
<sphalerite>
kuznero: yes, it should just be there
<kuznero>
sphalerite: like a batch script I can just call?
<kuznero>
ah, nix
<kuznero>
nice
<kuznero>
:)
<kuznero>
thanks
<sphalerite>
kuznero: a shell function
<kuznero>
very convenient, thanks
<sphalerite>
(see `type substituteInPlace`)
<infinisil>
and if you want it in a bare nix-shell, you can use `nix-shell -p stdenv`
<pierron>
steveeJ: is that a patching issue, or it is just not yet supposed to work?
<kuznero>
sphalerite: it complains about bad substitution in bash, probably because I am using `--replace "LDCONFIG_COMMAND=\"/sbin/ldconfig\"" "LDCONFIG_COMMAND=\"${stdenv.cc.libc}/sbin/ldconfig\""`
<pierron>
steveeJ: in the second case you should raise the issue to the person making the manifest, otherwise open an issue against nixpkgs-mozilla, and one of us should investigate more.
<sphalerite>
kuznero: fwiw anything ldconfig isn't really going to work with nix's assumptions so unless the build scripts need some output for it the best substitute for it is probably ${coreutils}/bin/true … :)
<sphalerite>
or rather nix invalidates ldconfig's assumptions
<nixngo>
infinisil: efibootmgr -v gives me "no boot order specified"
<kuznero>
sphalerite: I see, will try to switch it off then
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<nixngo>
maybe I will try to generate a new conf and run nixos-install again, and this time I will set the path to /mnt/boot/efi, too
<infinisil>
nixngo: How far do you get when booting?
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<nixngo>
do I have to set the grub patch too? Because I didn't set it and it installed the kernels and all grub stuff on its correct place in /mnt/boot
<nixngo>
infinisil: boot menu ^^
<nixngo>
infinisil: I mean the bios boot menu, not even grub
<infinisil>
Ah
<nixngo>
and to mount dev, proc and sys and chroot would probably the wrong way when using nixos I guess
<sphalerite>
nixngo: could you paste the full output of efibootmgr?
<steveeJ>
pierron: I'm having a discussion in the rust channel and it is supposed to work with rustup
<kuznero>
sphalerite: is that generally bad thing if build.sh that I am wrapping in a package tries to download some files from internet? Should I make it part of sources for a package or is it ok?
<sphalerite>
nixngo: `efibootmgr -o 1` should probably do the trick
<sphalerite>
kuznero: yes definitely a bad thing — it will fail in a sandboxed build
<sphalerite>
Downloading it in advance in a separate derivation (probably using fetchurl) is indeed the way to go
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] primeos pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdFBT
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master e40233e Michael Weiss: scons: 2.5.1 -> 3.0.0...
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<kuznero>
sphalerite: then the solution is two specify several sources for a package and then substituteInPlace to hijack the download process and say that it is already downloaded?
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<sphalerite>
kuznero: depending on how the script does it you may not need to hijack it, and may just be able to put the file in the place it would have downloaded it to
<nixngo>
infinisil: yes I thought I had it set up right but probably not, trying to reconfigurate a minimal configuration.nix now and If we can get It work I will be an happy camper!
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<yurrriq>
LnL: yeah. It seems unable to make any ssh connections :/
<symphorien>
what root-init.sh are you talking about ? I would be interested by any form of documentation on the subject
<shlevy>
niksnut: what's the average time from completion of the relevant job to channel being updated?
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<infinisil>
vandenoever: nftables?
<vandenoever>
infinisil: yes
<shlevy>
I would have thought with everything going straight to s3 it would be very quick, but the unstable job for 5da5af56e11 finished more than 12 hours ago
<boomshroom>
A while ago, my installation stopped bringing me to my display manager. I was able to get around it by logging into the tty and restarting it, but today that doesn't seem to be working.
<boomshroom>
After I log in, I get spammed with "radeon 0000:01:00.0: ring {0,3,4} stalled for more than {n}msec". It's likely this meens that it's a bug with my graphics driver.
<boomshroom>
I should note that the radeon logs seem to apear on every tty.
<infinisil>
boomshroom: If you have time and patience you could do a git bisect to find what broke it
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<infinisil>
No idea what could've caused this or how to solve it
<FRidh>
do we have a function for renaming a derivation without rebuilding it?
<joepie91>
boomshroom: are you using SDDM?
<joepie91>
boomshroom: if yes; try enabling lightdm instead
<boomshroom>
no such file or directory /run/system/kernel...something (radeon pushed it out too fast.)
<joepie91>
and see if that fixes it
<joepie91>
(SDDM has a history of causing issues on AMD cards)
<boomshroom>
radeon is eating nvim.
<boomshroom>
and tmux
<joepie91>
mm
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<joepie91>
boomshroom: if you have a thumbdrive or blank CD laying around, put the NixOS installer on there, boot from that, modify your on-disk config, then do a nixos-install (use --help to see what flags you need to use to exclude the non-rebuild steps)
<joepie91>
that'll trigger a rebuild without booting into your on-disk install
<joepie91>
this is assuming you can't boot into a past revision of the system ofc
<joepie91>
if you can, that's easier :)
<boomshroom>
I'm pretty sure I have a bootable generation.
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<joepie91>
right. try to edit from there and enable lightdm explicitly
<joepie91>
if that 'fixes' it, then you just have an SDDM issue that no fix might exist for yet, other than "don't use SDDM"
<joepie91>
at least I haven't been able to find one
<boomshroom>
You can specify multi-monitor from within the nixos-configuration?
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<sphalerite>
yep
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<joko>
My bad with pg extensions, they seem to work >_<
<adamt_>
Is anybody aware of anybody working on updating the zabbix package? It's rather ancient, and if nobody is actively working on upgrading it, my company might do it. Where's the best way to ask?
<boomshroom>
joepie91: attempting your suggesting, as soon as I make sure my semicolons are in order.
<joko>
Any idea how to delete permanently a user? Currently it gets revived with the previous UID
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<boomshroom>
now that I'm not being spammed: "No such file or directory: '/nix/var/nix/profiles/system-1-link/kernel'"
<TweyII>
adamt_: According to the file, Eelco Dolstra maintains it. But nixpkgs is open to contributions; if you want to bump it just make a PR
<boomshroom>
error(s) occured while switching to the new configuration
<disasm>
adamt_: I don't see any open PR's
<boomshroom>
That's because the first 5 system versions appear to be garbage collected and are now broken links.
<adamt_>
TweyII, thanks, maybe i should try and ping him first, though.
<adamt_>
disasm, thanks, didn't think of checking PR's.
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<boomshroom>
Atempting to do a garbage collection makes it hang a certain point for a while before freezing my entire computer.
<disasm>
adamt_: I upgrade lots of maintainers packages without asking. Just cc: them in the PR.
<boomshroom>
That could be why the symlinks are still there.
<disasm>
or mention them or whatever github calls it
<adamt_>
The default install (at least in 17.09) seems to be 1.8, which was released around 2009. What's NixOS' stand when it comes to supporting old stuff? Supporting 1.8 seems a bit extreme (to major releases behind).
<joepie91>
[17:21] <boomshroom> You can specify multi-monitor from within the nixos-configuration?
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<joepie91>
yes, sort of, kind of :)
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<joepie91>
in practice it's still stateful user config stuff because of display offsets and such
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<joepie91>
joko: 17.09 changed the behaviour of user management, now user IDs are remembered and reused when a user is recreated
<disasm>
I'm looking forward to ditching X completely (aside from xwayland) at the end of the year :)
<boomshroom>
All I want to do is work on my shiny compiler for a while. :(
<joepie91>
joko: but the user really *is* deleted afaikj
<joepie91>
afaik*
<infinisil>
disasm: Oh nice, will wanna do that too eventually
<infinisil>
X annoys
<infinisil>
me
<adamt_>
disasm, yeah, but in this case it would probably be nice with a discussion of whether anybody is actually interested in running 1.x or 2.x on new versions of Nix, and I imagine that might affect the way the PR would end up. :-)
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<boomshroom>
I'd like to switch to wayland, but support is still pretty bad.
<CrazedProgrammer>
one issue with sway I have is that it eats cpu, most likely because hardware acceleration isn't working
<disasm>
adamt_: typically, we don't keep old versions around unless there's a really good reason.
<CrazedProgrammer>
for me, that is
<joepie91>
adamt_: my understanding is that the nixpkgs policy is "only introduce new majors/breaking in new NixOS releases", but there's no specific policy for keeping around old versions other than "if needed for some reason, you can just have an attribute for each branch and a version-less attributes that aliases the newest"
<infinisil>
disasm: adamt_: Well, the module needs to be backwards compatible though, so you may need to do some stateVersion default thing
<joepie91>
adamt_: nixpkgs has less rigid guidelines than many distros, and is often more recent; but only if people bother to update packages
<joepie91>
so generally, "do what makes sense" :P
<adamt_>
infinisil, i'll look into that
<joepie91>
oh yeah, modules are iffier
<disasm>
CrazedProgrammer: I have lots of issues right now, with https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/1132 being the primary blocker to using it as a daily driver but with wlroots replacing wlc, supposedly most of the problems should go away :)
<boomshroom>
joepie91: funny, I seem to have had less updates since installing NixOS. (coming from Arch where I'd update once a day.)
<joepie91>
but then there are also quite a few modules that allow you to specify which package to use
<joepie91>
eg. postgresql
<adamt_>
joepie91, it would be fine with us to make a PR that bumps the version to 3.x for 18.03, and then just run the new version on current nix in the meantime.
<ldlework>
infinisil I've got a list of options. For each defined option I want to call a function `export` which builds a derivation that pushes some stuff up to github. The problem is that I don't need any data from those derivations, so nothing depends on the build output, and so the "export" function calls never get evaluated. Do you have any advice? https://gist.github.com/dustinlacewell-wk/108ee3896bbc20a70b593634c1ee40fa#file-org-export-nix-L53
<joepie91>
boomshroom: well, the update regime is a little spottier, probably in part due to the smaller userbase
<disasm>
joepie91: right, but those have a very good reason for it :)
<infinisil>
boomshroom: Does arch do proper tests like nixos?
<joepie91>
boomshroom: but that's not a policy issue, rather a "there's literally nobody who has the time to update the package" issue :P
<lewo>
How could I disable the cmake setup hook ?
<adamt_>
joepie91, yeah, i didn't really look much into how the current zabbix module works, but something like the postgres way of selecting a version would be neat i suppose.
<CrazedProgrammer>
disasm: aw that's a bummer, i have a lot of hope for wlroots too. mouse cursors aren't consistent in shape and size for me but they do appear in firefox
<adamt_>
boomshroom, if you're just using the 17.09 release channel you wouldn't get as many updates as in a rolling distro as Arch.
<joepie91>
boomshroom: frankly nixpkgs is surprisingly up to date considering the relatively small amount of people doing packaging
<joepie91>
(I think that even unstable is low-frequency in terms of updates, compared to Arch)
<boomshroom>
Does anyone have an idea about why system-{1..5}-link are still around despite the derivations they point to being GCed?
<infinisil>
lewo: Look at pkgs/development/tools/build-managers/cmake/setup-hook.sh
<disasm>
CrazedProgrammer: it can happen in any X app from what I can tell, haven't tried in firefox, but it disappeared in urxvt for me
<infinisil>
lewo: There you can see what variables control it
<boomshroom>
joepie91: I did mention I was on unstable. (Because of the graphics issues I was having)
<boomshroom>
18.03pre
<joepie91>
boomshroom: sorry, the unstable comment was aimed at adamt_ :)
<joepie91>
but I forgot to highlight
<infinisil>
boomshroom: What does nix-store -q --roots /path/to/system-links give you?
<lewo>
infinisil: yep, but I don't know where I have to set this dontFixCmake variable :)
<infinisil>
the roots are what prevent files from being gcd
<joko>
joepie91: the user is deleted, but how to also delete NixOS' book-keeping mechanism?
<infinisil>
lewo: Just in the derivation: mkDerivaiton { dontFixCmake = "true"; }
<adamt_>
My last Arch install broke after a few days because of a broken update, so I'm quite fine with the lower frequency. We'll just package the things we need. YaY for bleeding edge. :-)
<joepie91>
joko: no idea, to be honest. I don't know if there's a tool for that
<infinisil>
lewo: Not sure if it's "true" or true or "1" or whatever, maybe any of these work
<joepie91>
adamt_: fwiw, the lack of breakage in NixOS is more down to reproducible breaking than to the update frequency :P
<joepie91>
that is, something either breaks for everybody or for nobody (modulo hardware differences)
<infinisil>
and the tests..
<joepie91>
tests only tell you whether it builds and/or some predefined features work
<boomshroom>
infinisil: "skipping invalid root from ...system-{1..19}-link" along with several "removing stale link"s
<joepie91>
useful, but not complete
<joepie91>
and won't detect lots of more subtle ways of breakage
<infinisil>
yeah
<ldlework>
"Package ‘alsa-lib-1.1.4.1’ in /nix/store/c2lqf0224a0gvlx91ckhly2wzg6kn1f6-nixpkgs-18.03pre117690.ab2cc75f78/nixpkgs/pkgs/os-specific/linux/alsa-lib/default.nix:32 is not supported on ‘x86_64-darwin’, refusing to evaluate."
<infinisil>
oh, but there are impurities here and there, so it's not completely "either it works for everybody or nobody"
<boomshroom>
infinisil: The actual result is "/nix/var/nix/profiles/system-{20..27}-link", /run/booted-system and /run/current/system
<infinisil>
boomshroom: Well, not sure about all that, but the manpage for nix-store contains lots of stuff related to that
<ldlework>
rycee any idea why suddenly alsa-lib is being built, and failing, on OSX?
<infinisil>
lewo: Heh, I just wanted to see how other packages do it by ripgrepping for dontFixCmake, but there are no examples, it literally isn't used
<lewo>
infinisil: I'm looking for an example where a setup hook is disable
<lewo>
infinisil: yep
<ldlework>
seemed to be a fluke I guess
<infinisil>
lewo: How about just doing "${pkgs.cmake}/bin/cmake" where you call it and not including it in buildInputs
<infinisil>
then the setup hook shouldn't be sourced i believe
<infinisil>
not optimal, but it might work
<infinisil>
lewo: Why do you want to avoid the setup hook being called though?
<infinisil>
I think it would be better to fix the setup hook if it doesn't work correctly for you
<lewo>
infinisil: because it fails in a complex (and dirty) softaware build. Moreover I know nothing about cmake :(
<lewo>
so, I just wanted to see if the build work without this fix
<lewo>
infinisil: I will try to replace the call of cmake "just to see"
<lewo>
infinisil: thanks for your suggestion
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/vdFwH
<infinisil>
boomshroom: Similar to how result gets produces with nix-build which prevents it from being gcd, deleting result makes it possible to gc
<infinisil>
and yours is already gc'd so it shouldn't be a problem to rm it
<infinisil>
how you ended up at this situation i have no idea
<infinisil>
There is nix-store --delete --ignore-liveness which ignores whether something is still being referenced, but I doubt you used that
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<boomshroom>
Well it didn't error building the configuration, so let's soo if it works... after I get back from classes.
<boomshroom>
goodbye!
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] rhendric opened pull request #30612: nixos/postfix: allow dollar variables in lists (master...fix/NixOS-30521) https://git.io/vdFoN
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<guillaum2>
How do you setup a default target inside a shell.nix ? I have three derivation, how can i select one when `nix-shell` is called without explict `-A`?
<disasm>
actually lewo did you try dontFixCmake = true; in the derivation?
<infinisil>
guillaum2: let x = derivationA; y = derivationB; in x
<vandenoever>
what is the configuration.nix statement to install a kernel module?
<infinisil>
guillaum2: This makes it use derivationA, change it to `in y` to make it use B
<guillaum2>
infinisil: and I can use derivationB by doing `nix-shell -A y`?
<lewo>
disasm: infinisil in fact, it partially works: when I set dontFixCmake = true; I don't get the message fixing cmake files... but it still tries to do some stuffs for cmake. I will investigate a bit more.
<infinisil>
2: Use passthru, which let's you do `nix-shell` which selects A, and `nix-shell -A b` which selects B
<infinisil>
(or the argument method above)
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<catern>
woaaah
<catern>
a compiler is a curried interpreter
<ldlework>
hi catern
<hodapp>
catern: get outta here with that crap
<catern>
I never knew that!!!
<catern>
hodapp: what, you mean ostensibly deep and interesting but ultimately useless insights? :)
<infinisil>
That's pretty deep
* ldlework
languishes.
<catern>
yeah it is but I'm kind of suspicious of anything that doesn't produce working code
<TweyII>
catern: But working *usefully* requires your interpreter to do a lot of evaluation under binders, which is Hard Work
<catern>
TweyII: evaluation under binders?
<infinisil>
guillaum2: Or you could just write a small script to invoke that calls nix-shell
<catern>
TweyII: oh, right, variable bindings
<catern>
yes
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<TweyII>
catern: E.G. if you have a function like x: x + (1 + 3), you need the compiler to be smart enough to figure out that, even unapplied, this can be compiled down to x: x + 4
<catern>
TweyII: well, you don't really need your *interpreter* to do that :)
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<catern>
you just need your implementation of "curry" to do that :)
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 3 new commits to staging: https://git.io/vdF6P
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/staging eef0d09 Vladimír Čunát: Merge branch 'master' into staging
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/staging 90435ba Vladimír Čunát: Revert "wt: fixup build by using older boost again"...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/staging c3263fc Vladimír Čunát: wt: put version into name, cleanup whitespace...
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<catern>
or in general your base language
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<TweyII>
catern: Well, you need your function application to do it
<catern>
Sure
<TweyII>
But yes, the language the interpreter is written in is good enough
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<TweyII>
But maybe even harder :þ
<catern>
So if you have a Sufficiently Intelligent Compiler, then it's easy to produce more :)
<TweyII>
Yeah :)
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<rycee>
ldlework: Hmm, no idea. Is it HM that pulls in alsa? Do you have the alsa-lib drv file in your Nix store? If so, what does `nix-store -q --referrers /nix/store/…-alsa-lib-….drv` say?
<catern>
hence a sufficiently intelligent compiler is the last invention that mankind need ever make :)
<lewo>
infinisil: disasm in fact, I needed to set dontUseCmakeConfigure = true; So, it now works for me. Thanks
<ldlework>
rycee I have no idea what that error was about, it only happend once, I think it was a fluke
<catern>
(with apologies to I.J. Good)
<hodapp>
catern: last one they'll need, or last one they'll make before humanity is destroyed?
<hodapp>
we all know whose side you're on.
<ldlework>
rycee I could much more use your help with my real question which has to with an Option that doesn't output any files. Since nothing in a config refers to the option's value, then then the option never get's processed
<catern>
hodapp: well, I omitted the rest of the quote :) "provided that the compiler is docile enough"
<TweyII>
catern: Well, you'd still have to make your interpreters
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<guillaum2>
infinisil: passthru is great, thank you.
<infinisil>
ldlework: Is alsa available on darwin?
<ldlework>
I don't care about the alsa problem
<ldlework>
It went away
<infinisil>
guillaum2: It's a bit ugly though :P
<catern>
hodapp: "to tell us how to keep it under control"
<guillaum2>
infinisil: yes, but it gives the default behavior AND access to the sub derivations ;)
<ldlework>
rycee basically I have an Option that takes a list of sets. For each set in the list, it runs a derivation. But since nothing refers to the output of these derivations like nothing is set to `home.file` then the builds never happen because they never get fully evaluated
<guillaum2>
infinisil: access to sub derivations is only needed for debuging.
<ldlework>
I could really use help with this problem
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<infinisil>
ldlework: Well, where do you use there derivations?
<infinisil>
If you don't use them anywhere it doesn't make sense to build them
<ldlework>
I don't use them. They transform a file, and then push it to github
<rycee>
ldlework: Alright. But what should happen instead? Somehow they must be used in some way.
<infinisil>
ldlework: Sooo, you only want to keep them around so you don't need to refetch them if a gc happens?
<ldlework>
no
<ldlework>
My emacs configuration is an org-file. When I build my configuration from org-mode -> elisp
<ldlework>
But I also export it to html and push it to github
<ldlework>
But this second derivation never gets run because there is no output file to write to home.file
<rycee>
ldlework: Do you push from the activation script?
<ldlework>
No, I create a sub-derivation using runCommand
<infinisil>
ldlework: Why not just home.file."my-org-config".source = drv.outPath
<ldlework>
The html file is never output to the home directory since it isn't an artifact that actually needs a symlink in the home directory
<ldlework>
I do that for the elisp conversion that I actually want in my home directory
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<ldlework>
and that derivation works
<ldlework>
but I do not want the html export in my home directory
<ldlework>
I simply want to build it and push it to github
<infinisil>
ldlework: Then use ".local/share/org-html/out.html" where data is usually stored
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<rycee>
Yeah, but you have to run the git push from somewhere and I assume that has to refer to the thing you built.
<ldlework>
rycee yes, I've been doing the git push from inside the derivation that does the html build
<ldlework>
infinisil I am able to use git without issue inside runCommand
<infinisil>
Do you have sandbox disabled?
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<ldlework>
I have no diea
<ldlework>
I installed nix on OSX with the curl | sh script, then am just using HM
<ldlework>
I haven't done anything special to configure Nix at all
<nliadm>
I want to replace a package's postInstall hook via overrideAttrs, is there a way to get the arguments it was passed? e.g. which python and the like
<ldlework>
The runCommand is just bash, so what would even prevent git from working? Nix builds don't take place in a container, etc
<ldlework>
rycee is there anyway we could get a post-build hook?
<ldlework>
Another strange thing is
<ldlework>
Before I started using Options to do work, I was just writing functions and importing them
<ldlework>
This same export function
<ldlework>
then in my let clause I would just do `html_build = export { ... }`
<ldlework>
I never referred to html_build name, but the export's derivation would get run anway
<ldlework>
Are all let variables evaluated or something?
<rycee>
Ya, this is a bit unorthodox :-) If you want git push to happen on HM activation then I would suggest putting the commands into a home.activation section (or write the commands into a shell script using `writeScript` and call this script from a home.activation section).
<ldlework>
rycee I don't want it to happen on activation, only during build
<ldlework>
that's the problem
<ldlework>
Further, the things that do the building and pushing... I need an emacs with specific emacs packages to do the html export
<ldlework>
But I don't need those packages in my actual emacs that get's installed
<ldlework>
The fact that this export was taking place entirely within the runCommand is advantageous
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<sphalerite>
I'd just make a wrapper
<ldlework>
a wrapper?
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<hyper_ch>
again big kde update
<hyper_ch>
will it be rolled back again or note.... :)
<rycee>
Builds are kind of geared towards determinism and as such network operations and such are not recommended. The non-deterministic stuff belong more to the activation script. Although ideally the activation script should be reasonably robust and not leave your system in an inconsistent state so I would suggest against network operations there as well.
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<rycee>
So basically, I would suggest installing the git push script to your user environment and then call that after switching your generation.
<ldlework>
...
<ldlework>
I'm stunned.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] obadz pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdFXJ
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<hyper_ch>
infinisil: what's your howto script again for clever's k-thingy?
<taaperotassu>
Does anyone here use i3 and polybar? I am wondering if anyone else is having strange behaviour. Always after using i3 refresh.. my polybar becomes unresponsive
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<ldlework>
rycee I take it this means you wont approve of my plugin PR heh
<loz1>
hi guys
<loz1>
here's what I don't get about nix-shell
<loz1>
how do I start it with a specific package version?
<loz1>
error: syntax error, unexpected INT, expecting ID or OR_KW or DOLLAR_CURLY or '"', at (string):1:109
<loz1>
I need zeromq-3.2.5, but it fails like this and gives me 4 which is incompatible with what I'm doing
<loz1>
I mean it's such an obvious thing, just add the right directory to the $PATH
<ldlework>
rycee infinisil also, any idea why my derivations were being evaluated when they were produced by a imported function which just called runCommand and assigned to a let variable? I never referred to these let variables containing derivations, and yet the derivations were built anyway.
<ldlework>
Are let variables automatically evaluated?
<rycee>
ldlework: I like the idea of the plugins. But like I wrote in the comment I think this can be accomplished using regular modules and the `imports` option. I'm not completely certain, though. If it is not possible to do with the modules and imports then I think your plugins idea could be merged…
<ldlework>
rycee the thing is, my plugin system lets plugin's export library code that get's merged into pkgs. That is, plugins can make pkg library functions and stuff available. They also export a .module attribute which get's merged into the `imports` option during HM's evalModules setup.
<rycee>
ldlework: Yeah, but I guess a `nixpkgs.overlays`, like in NixOS, would accomplish the same?
<ldlework>
I switched my exporting from just being a function to a declared Option that my plugin then attempts to handle in its config. But since it's config has nothing to write out, the derivations never get evaluated. When I just called the export function and assigned the derivation to a let variable (and never referenced that let variable) the derivations got built.
<ldlework>
rycee overlay would just add to pkgs right? It wouldn't add the plugin option declarations to the Option's tree right?
<rycee>
ldlework: Hmm, if you replace the derivation with `builtings.throw "why am I here?"` and run again with `--show-trace` then it should show you why it ended up being evaluated.
<ldlework>
neat
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<rycee>
ldlework: Yeah, you would still also have to include the options in your module: `{ option = { myoption = mkOption { … }; }; config = { nixpkgs.overlays = [ … ]; }; }`
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<ldlework>
yeah my thing results in a pretty nice UX
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<rycee>
But `{ imports = [ (fetchSomehow "myoptionmodule") ]; myoption = "whatever"; }` doesn't seem too terrible and it has the benefit of working exactly like in NixOS configuration.
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<ldlework>
Its just more work that every user of a plugin has to do
<ldlework>
When the plugin could just easily specify that information without any work by anyone.
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<ldlework>
Also, just using imports = [] doesn't make new library code available in pkgs
<hyper_ch>
that howto lacks link to clevers kexec :)
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<hyper_ch>
thx
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<keta_suki>
Should invoking kexec normally work on nixos? My machine just freezes on a black screen whenever I try ask systemctl to do so. Now that I think of it, it might be due to the noveau driver not reinitializing the GPU.
<hyper_ch>
keta_suki: what kexec are you talking about? clever's?
<keta_suki>
euh just vanilla kexec syscall
<hyper_ch>
kexec is still black magic for me
<hyper_ch>
I've heard rumors and legends about how the real gurus use that dark magic to deploy nixos on far far away servers
<keta_suki>
haha yeah, that's what happens if you can't use PXE ona a remote server. hyper_ch: thank you anyways :) brb
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: well, I know where to find it :)
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<hyper_ch>
keta_suki: clever wrote a kexec expression that builds a nice initrd to to boot up nixos to which you can either can ssh into or if you use his other script it will automagically setup the server
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: just thought for your notes it would be good if you had it refernced directly
<infinisil>
ldlework: I'm with rycee here, your plugin idea is fully achievable with normal modules if we add a nixpkgs.overlays option
<ldlework>
How does an overlay add library code and declare/define options at the same time?
<guillaum2>
what is the politic of pull request when I want to introduce a version of a package with a different config (for example, hdf5 with the szip/zlib flag setup)?
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<infinisil>
keta_suki: I've used clever's kexec thing multiple times and it works great :)
<infinisil>
ldlework: No, you do `imports = [ (fetchFromGitHub { ... }) ]`, the file you fetch contains: `{ options = ...; config = { nixpkgs.overlays = [ ... ]; ... }; }`
<hyper_ch>
also check out clever's full kexec repo.... he just automates everything
<ldlework>
infinisil Sure but then it isn't making any new library code in pkgs available.
<ldlework>
My plugin system does both, I keep trying to communicate that but failing.
<hyper_ch>
I still haven't tried it but it looks awesome
<infinisil>
ldlework: That file is the plugin
<infinisil>
the user doesn't need to write that
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<joko>
I was wondering if it is currently possible to read variables from a postgres server in your configuration.nix when you rebuild nixos, any thoughts on that?
<ldlework>
Hmm, I think I just don't know enough to understand.
<infinisil>
ldlework: Okay hold on I'll make an example
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<infinisil>
Oh wait, I can't because nixpkgs.overlays isn't there yet
<octe>
i'm trying to package a thing, it's fetched via url and builds fine. but i want to replace one file in the resulting package with one i have locally
<octe>
can i do that?
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<ldlework>
octe sure just do something like `rm target_file.ext; ln -s ${./local_file.ext} target_file.ext`
<ldlework>
pretty sure
<ldlework>
or however you'd prefer to do it in the bash
<infinisil>
ldlework: cfg.sources then looks like [ { source = ..; user = ..; ... } { ... } ], you can do with that whatever you want
<infinisil>
e.g. use map
<ldlework>
ah 👍 I just need to slog through the FP logic of it then
<octe>
ldlework, in the install phase?
<ldlework>
octe yeah, same place you're fetching stuff from remote and doing the build
<ldlework>
you could also add a new phase before the install phase, etc
<octe>
right, the file i want to use to replace is next to my default.nix.. so i just tried cp file $out/file
<ldlework>
I'm not positive but I think the phases just get concatenated together
<octe>
but it can't find the file
<ldlework>
nah, it isn't in out
<ldlework>
you use "path" values to refer to input files
<infinisil>
Actually, if you assign installPhase = "foo", the original installPhase is gone
<ldlework>
local_file.ext is next to your default.nix
<octe>
sorry, thanks, that seems to work :)
<rycee>
Turned out that nixpkgs.overlays was pretty simple to add. Could just add <nixpkgs/nixos/modules/misc/nixpkgs.nix> as a module and do some minor fixes for it to work.
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<ldlework>
infinisil sure but you can do installPhases = ["foo"] ++ installPhases
<ldlework>
or something right
<infinisil>
rycee: Nice :D
<ldlework>
rycee nice
<ldlework>
I think I'm onboard with the nixpkgs.overlays method
<infinisil>
ldlework: Yeah that can work, but it's a string, so you need "foo\n" + installPhase;
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<ldlework>
infinisil not installPhase, installPhases
<ldlework>
which lists the installPhases right?
<ldlework>
So you don't need to even edit the main installPhase
<ldlework>
but I'm probably wrong
<infinisil>
Did you see that somewhere or is this a speculation?
<rycee>
I'll try to get it into HM over the weekend. Needs a few cleanups first.
<ldlework>
I feel so dumb with Nix
<ldlework>
infinisil I'm pretty sure I've seen derivations with more than one install phase
<infinisil>
ldlework: You're doing pretty well for using it only such a short while!
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<infinisil>
rycee: Could you open a PR so I could help with it maybe?
<infinisil>
ldlework: Yeah that's phases = [ "buildPhase" "installPhase" ] or something like that
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<ldlework>
ah had the name wrong
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<Dezgeg>
setting phases = ...; considered harmful
<rycee>
infinisil: Yeah, I'll see if i have the time to put a PR.
<keta_suki>
hyper_ch: infinisil Thanks, I'll take a look
<ldlework>
infinisil hmm, if I use map and stuff to iterate over the attrset of build jobs... that just produces a list right? Who's contents wont be evaluated!
<infinisil>
ldlework: Well you need to use those somewhere
<ldlework>
Oh so maybe I need to actually merge a computed attrset with home.file
<infinisil>
it doesn't make sense to evaluate something if the result is throws away
<ldlework>
instead of imperatively assigning each one in a for-loop
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<ldlework>
infinisil does it make sense to convert my build's somehow into a thing that can be merged into the config set?
<infinisil>
there is no for loop in nix anyways :P
<ldlework>
Yeah exactly :P
<infinisil>
ldlework: Yeah that's what you'd do
<infinisil>
ldlework: Need help with that?
<ldlework>
So maybe I use map to produce a list of attrsets with key-value, then I use that once function that converts that to an attrset, then I merge it against something in config
<ldlework>
let me give it a go
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<steveeJ>
pierron: it's an upstream issue that we can't solve
<digitalmentat>
what version of OS X do I need to be careful with when installing the latest version of Nix? I vaguely remember seeing someone tweet a warning...
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<disasm>
high sierra
<digitalmentat>
disasm, thanks!
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<ldlework>
I think forcing the user to write the exports out to a file is an 👍 comprimise I guess
<infinisil>
ldlework: What do you mean?
<infinisil>
Ah
<ldlework>
Like even though they just want to build init.html and push it up to github pages, forcing them to also write init.html to their home directory is an 👍 comprimise
<infinisil>
Well if the user just wants to build something he shouldn't use home-manager for that
<infinisil>
because home-manager, as the name, manager home
<infinisil>
manages*
<infinisil>
as the name implies*
<ldlework>
I mean, if you adopt HM, then it is the thing you use to do your dotfile management
<ldlework>
I mean, if HM had a secondary activationScript called postBuildScript, that was run once, when a new generation was produced that would be fine
<ldlework>
But doing those kinds of things everytime you switch between a generation seems overly wasteful
<infinisil>
nix is declarative, it doesn't make sense to have that
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<ldlework>
It has an activation script already!
<infinisil>
If you want actions to run after a rebuild, you do that with something like alias rebuild="home-manager switch && git push"
<ldlework>
It already has an activation script. A postBuild script seems perfectly cromulent.
<infinisil>
ldlework: Yeah, but activation script say exactly how it needs to apply this config to ~, they don't do anything
<ldlework>
they can do whatever you want
<infinisil>
home-manager, the binary, is what executes the activation script to make it apply immediately
<ldlework>
yup
<ldlework>
it could do the same thing with a postBuild script, only once when a new generation is actually built
<ldlework>
it would be the same thing
<ldlework>
I could probably use the activationScript logic to build a postBuild script if I can figure out how to find the right point to execute it when a new generation is built
<infinisil>
Meh, nix isn't made for that
<ldlework>
infinisil also, just doing && doesn't solve it
<ldlework>
That will run anytime you run switch, not everytime a generation is built
<infinisil>
yeah sure, but i hope you see what I'm trying to say
<ldlework>
You're trying to conflate the properties of HM and Nix
<ldlework>
:)
<digitalmentat>
I often find oneshot systemd units to be perfect for this sort of thing
<infinisil>
Ohh right, good call digitalmentat
<ldlework>
No systemd on OSX
<digitalmentat>
NixOS makes it trivial to create one
<digitalmentat>
oh I see
<ldlework>
And that seems like just abusing systemd for what is really something related to buildtime
<ldlework>
not system configuration
<infinisil>
well but it's not really what he needs, systemd oneshot units aren't thought for pushing things to github after a build
<ldlework>
It seems like "HM feature" is the 👌 ontological placement for this kind of thing
<digitalmentat>
then push manually or add shell alias
<infinisil>
really what you need is just a simple script that does the build and push
<digitalmentat>
however, NixOS would be better for managing dot files IMHO if at all possible
<digitalmentat>
shove them into the Nix store and symlink to your homedir
<ldlework>
then HM is not the thing I use to manage my home environment anymore
<ldlework>
That's exactly what HM is doing
<digitalmentat>
I don't understand home manager well enough to comment on whether it's better suited or not
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<ldlework>
Its just a bash script that executes a package build with nix-env, with an expression you wrote.
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<infinisil>
digitalmentat: home-manager uses the nixos module system as a base, but provides different base images, ones focused on managing your home directory
<ldlework>
The expressions describe package out puts. Once the build is done, HM symlinks everything into your home directory.
<digitalmentat>
oh I see
<digitalmentat>
I did not know that
<digitalmentat>
I've been doing that manually this whole time, lulz
<ldlework>
It also lets you describe an "activation" bash script which is run anytime you activate a certain generation
<digitalmentat>
(by manually, I mean writing that Nix code)
<ldlework>
I'm arguing a "postBuild" bash script could also be supported anytime a new build generation is produced
<MichaelRaskin>
I guess you could add an activation script to the module that checks if some path is in the list of already-pushed things, and if no, adds it and pushes.
<ldlework>
Sure, if rycee rejected the idea, that will probably be the only option. Wasteful overhead though.
<ldlework>
stateful artifacts, etc
<infinisil>
I think the best solution is to modify home-manager to support `home-manager activivate <path>` which activates a home-manager build
<infinisil>
then have a script that does `home-manager build; do stuff; home-manager activate`
<MichaelRaskin>
Sorry? You have to have stateful something to do pushes only once per non-trivial build
<infinisil>
Exactly ^^
<infinisil>
pushing to github is inherently stateful
<ldlework>
MichaelRaskin HM knows when a new generation was produced, and when it didn't do anything because nothign changed.
<ldlework>
It should run the postBuild script every single time a new generation was created
<MichaelRaskin>
No it doesn't
<ldlework>
No it doesn't what
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<MichaelRaskin>
HM asks Nix to make sure some path is valid.
<MichaelRaskin>
Nix doesn't tell if there was something to be done.
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<ldlework>
What do you mean by path?
<MichaelRaskin>
Nix store path.
<ldlework>
How does HM count the generations?
<MichaelRaskin>
I think it asks nix-env to count them.
<MichaelRaskin>
So it doesn't.
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<ldlework>
So could it ask them to count them, do the build, and then ask them to count them?
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<infinisil>
It actually lists all profiles with ending home-manager.. and looks at the last number there
<ldlework>
Seems like its still enough info
<MichaelRaskin>
if you go that way, there is no cost to do exactly the same around HM
<ldlework>
Though I guess -technically- I could do that same logic in my own HM wrapper.
<infinisil>
gchristensen: Is that pretty much a ripgrep web version for nixpkgs?
<gchristensen>
no, it is Hound, which maintains an in-memory / on-disk index of the codebase with trigrams
* jsgrant
finally moved all his boxes over, finally, again; Keeping it on for at least a year & giving a fair shake.
<jsgrant>
Just been dipping toes before & backing out way too often , before.
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<ldlework>
MichaelRaskin hmm, now I'm a little confused in reading the source about the activation script. Is the activation script actually run inside the HM derivation build? IE, the environment in which the activation script is run, is actually a GC'd build environment?
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<gchristensen>
activation scripts aren't run in a build env
<gchristensen>
they mutate your actual host
<ldlework>
You're talking about the HM activation script specifically?
<gchristensen>
oh I have no idea about home manager
<infinisil>
both nixos and home-manager do it the same
<infinisil>
Well since you know about home-manager you implicitly know some stuff about nixos ;)
<ldlework>
Ah OK
<jsgrant>
Oh, is Home-Manager a peruser Nix?
<infinisil>
jsgrant: A per-user nixos rather, it manager your home with modules
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<infinisil>
nixos modules even
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<jsgrant>
Bookmarked too. :^)
<Judson>
Sorry if I missed a reply - does anyone know about the state of the ruby buildPackage or bundix?
<jsgrant>
Lots of useful info, for just popping in.
<ldlework>
infinisil so there is a main HM derivation somewhere right? Does that derviation have a buildStep / installStep, etc?
<ldlework>
home.activationPackage perhaps
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] jwiegley pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdFND
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 86b8e28 John Wiegley: startkde was removed by 0cd1b028174fe250c071c735be231db881fe964f
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<ldlework>
hmm I don't see where home.activationPackage is actually defined in the "config" step sense
<ldlework>
oh there it is
<disasm>
digitalmentat: I got a better idea... why not have a postBuild that executes anytime it's ran and then the logic in your postbuild script can detect the case where you want it to do something or noop
<ldlework>
aha, infinisil maybe I could add a postBuild phase to home.activationPackage?!
<ldlework>
I know you don't like it, but perhaps it would work?
<ldlework>
That should be doable even from inside the modules I think...
<infinisil>
you shouldn't touch anything outside of $out in a derivation
<ldlework>
Sure, I wouldn't
<ldlework>
That would be the point, I'd be able to refer to the html output there and upload it to github before the activation package is finished building
<ldlework>
I'd be inside the package build itself. But I'm not sure how to override/extend home.activationPackage from a module yet
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<infinisil>
alright how about this
<ldlework>
different modules could extend the step to do their various things, and I would have to maintain all this outside-of-HM tooling
<ldlework>
wouldn't*
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<infinisil>
You add a script to $out that pushes your config
<infinisil>
no execute, just put a script that does it
<infinisil>
then you can /nix/var/nix/profile/per-user/<user>/home-manager/<script> to upload the current config
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<digitalmentat>
that postBuild would have to be in a non-deterministic derivation though...
<digitalmentat>
no?
<digitalmentat>
unless that derivation does indeed change
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<infinisil>
Actually this is a great idea
<ldlework>
Yours or mine
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<infinisil>
mine of course xD
<infinisil>
nah sry,
<infinisil>
But a derivation needs to be stateless, and not do anything outside $out in a build
<ldlework>
It doesn't need to do anything outside of $out, unless you're considering the git push
<infinisil>
my idea is to add a home.extraBuilderCommands, same as with nixos, option, that adds extra commands to the builder package
<michaelpj>
in particular, if it does anything else it'll fail with sandboxing enabled, which disables network access
<ldlework>
but it's git-pushing an $out artifact
<ldlework>
I don't think HM uses any sandboxing
<infinisil>
and these extraBuilderCommands can put a script in $out/foo that does an additional thing, such as git push itself to github
<michaelpj>
yes, but one day it'll probably become the default
<michaelpj>
in nix
<michaelpj>
it's just against the nix philosophy, so you're generally going to have a bad time if you try and do that
<ldlework>
I don't even see what about a build actually changes if you do a git push it in it or not
<ldlework>
since the build output is not dependent on the push, it shouldn't actually play into this nix philosophy rhetoric
<ldlework>
But I'm pretty dumb
<ldlework>
I've been wrong about just about every intuition I've had about nix 🤣
<michaelpj>
from nix's point of view you're running a program that reaches out into the network - anything could happen. The simple solution is just to ban it, and do any impure stuff you need to do afterwards. That's what the activation stuff is for - actually mutating your host/the world
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<ldlework>
I mean you can say all network operations turn the build impure, but it seems to me that is only true if the build is casually dependent on the outcome of the network operation.
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<ldlework>
If its not, then I've just probably have an ill-conception of what it means for the build to be impure
<ToxicFrog>
"pure" generally means "without hidden dependencies or side effects", and doing a git push is definitely a side effect
<infinisil>
what if you're not ldlework and you want to build this derivation
<ldlework>
Why?
<ldlework>
The build doesn't actually depend on the git push
<infinisil>
then you don't have push access and it'll fail
<ToxicFrog>
Then why is it part of the build?
<ldlework>
the build output
<michaelpj>
it's not just the build, it's the action. Nix fundamentally assumes that derivation builds are referentially transparent, but yours isn't. If you ask to build a derivation nix could build that once, multiple times, or no times and that would be fine. Except you'd get a different number of pushes
<ldlework>
anything that might go into the cryptographic hash
<ldlework>
is what I mean by depend on
<ldlework>
it obviously logically depends on the git push
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<ldlework>
But not in the techncial sense of build output determinism that you're leaning on
<infinisil>
That's not the definition of pure though
<ldlework>
Its totally disjoint from that
<ldlework>
I don't see how any other definition could matter
<ldlework>
Its like if you pinged a server in the build, in a try/except case where in all cases you don't depend on the outcome at all
<ldlework>
Its meaningless to say the build "depends" on this network operation
<ldlework>
if it fails or succeeds the outcome of the build is the same
<ldlework>
if you are not the right user or anything else, the same build result takes place
<ldlework>
wrong auth token? build still succeeds with the same cryptographic output it would have it the right auth was present and the build took place.
<michaelpj>
ldlework: would you be surprised if you asked to build the derivation and the git push didn't occur? or occurred multiple times?
<michaelpj>
both of those are valid things for nix to do so long as it provides you with the right output at the end
<ldlework>
I would be surprised if that behavior changed Nix's conception of whether it was cryptographically distinct
<michaelpj>
the point I'm trying to make is that nix wants assumes referential transparency, not just "no effects that affect the build output". The former is what makes binary-cache substitutability okay, which is pretty critical
<ldlework>
Yes, but in this cases it is subtitutable
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<ldlework>
The determinis is the same, because the network operation has literally zero casual relationship with the rest of the build
<ldlework>
determinism*
<ldlework>
Yes, the result on GitHub might not be deterministic
<ldlework>
But Nix doesn't care about that at all
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<michaelpj>
sure, my point is that Nix is going to behave as though it's referentially transparent, and if it let you have effects everywhere that would be *bad for you* because they'd be evaluated in unpredictable ways
<ldlework>
You get all of the intended guarantees
<ldlework>
of Nix
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<michaelpj>
if you do it in an activation script you have none of these problems
<michaelpj>
everything is predictable and composes nicely
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<MichaelRaskin>
Well, if push failure fails the build, it is not referentially transparent.
<MichaelRaskin>
I wonder how much sandboxing is currently the Nix default and when it will increaseÖ
<ldlework>
Yes, but I went out of my way a few times to say that it isn't
<MichaelRaskin>
I guess Nix already sandboxes enough that the push will fail.
<ldlework>
infinisil lol damn
<ldlework>
that would've taken me the rest of the day
<LnL>
when sandboxing is enabled it would fail yes
<ldlework>
But the build will be the same
<LnL>
with sandboxing you won't have any network acess
<michaelpj>
it's not just about the build
<ldlework>
you keep saying that
<ldlework>
but with regards to Nix guarantees, afaict, it is about the build
<ldlework>
Anything else is something you're adding ontop
<ldlework>
About being able to also be assured about how Github is mutated
<ldlework>
If you this in a sandboxed environment where there are no network operations, sure, Github wont be mutated how you expect
<ldlework>
But as far as Nix can tell, and all those guarantees that come with it, it will be indifferent to the outcome
<michaelpj>
nix is about purely functional software packaging, if it has outside effect it's not pure, no? determinism is a benefit you get from doing this, not the primary goal
<ldlework>
If there's something of import that I'm missing, I genuinely want to understand it. I'm just stating the case as I understand it.
<LnL>
but that would cause the build to fail
<ldlework>
The package is pure.
<ldlework>
LnL why would it cause the build to fail?
<ldlework>
You can in the bash wrap all the git stuff in something that will never fail.
<LnL>
sure that would work
<MichaelRaskin>
That requires manually doing omething correctly
<MichaelRaskin>
Nix guarantees are about minimizing the effects of typical manual errors.
<ldlework>
Which is 👍 for package design imo
<ldlework>
s/package/plugin
<michaelpj>
look - why do we care about purely functional packaging? well, so we can compose things together and they work nicely without effects all over the place. That lets us do all kinds of nice things, and making more deterministic software is *one* of those things, but not the extent. So we ban effects, and that includes your github pushing
<ldlework>
Actually why would it even cause the build to fail?
<ldlework>
bash doesn't fail out when a command fails by default
<ldlework>
So you'd have to go out of your way to make the git failure fail the whole script
<LnL>
that's the default behaviour for builders
<ldlework>
I've had the git fail when I had the wrong token, and the build still succeeded
<ldlework>
I'm using runCommand
<ldlework>
though if I use infinisil's new thing I wont be
<ldlework>
but HM's derivation is a mkDerivation package
<ldlework>
so I assume it is the same
<michaelpj>
tbh this entire debate is basically "why can't I have benign effects like logging in a pure Haskell function?", so I defer to previous discussion
<ldlework>
michaelpj that's useful, thank you
<ldlework>
I'm genuinely interested so I'l at least try to look into that. I don't know haskell though.
<ldlework>
Also, to keep this real, we're talking about dotfile management.
<ldlework>
I personally want as much conveneince as possible
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<catern>
use ocaml or sml
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<ldlework>
michaelpj if you happen to know any good previous discussions, I'd take a look. logging is a great way to frame it.
<jeaye>
mbirkis: Are you installing on Digital Ocean, or just a normal machine?
<mbirkis>
jeaye: it is on online.net machine
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<jeaye>
Hm, ok. I don't know of anyone who's tried that yet and I'm not sure if those machines will have specific network interface set ups or something.
<jeaye>
That's good, in this case. Dynamic IP, or static?
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<mbirkis>
static ip
<jeaye>
Ok, so you'll need to configure that again, once NixOS is installed. Does this hoster provide a web console for accessing tty?
<mbirkis>
yes it does
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<jeaye>
Ok, that will likely be needed. From what it sounds like, you'll be able to do the install without much issue (Ubuntu + no bells or whistles) and you'll likely need to jump into the console and set up your static IP using the typical Nix approach in order to get network up.
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<mbirkis>
ok, so i just clone the repo, run the script, tty in to fix stuff, and profit :)
<michaelpj>
ldlework: I had a blog post in mind, but I now can't find it (typical). I'll ping it to you if I find it :)
<jeaye>
mbirkis: I'd back up anything important.
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<mbirkis>
jeaye: ofcourse... but thanks for reminding me
<jeaye>
mbirkis: You may need to restore the machine if things fail, since everything that'll happen will be as root.
<sphalerite>
Once again I call upon the zfs wizards… Does anyone know if I can permanently set ownership on a zvol? I'd like my user to have r/w access to one zvol all the time, so I can just run the VM as that user
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdbUD
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 75a5364 Thomas Mader: dub: 1.1.0 -> 1.4.1 (#28396)...
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdbTI
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 916c0a6 Frank Doepper: biboumi: init at 6.1 (#30193)...
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<woffs>
joachifm: thanks for merging! I'd appreciate additional maintainers for biboumi.
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<digitalmentat>
domenkozar, is there a security report somewhere of the impact from installing Nix 1.11.15 on High Sierra? Are we still within a period of responsible disclosure which is why no official announcements have been made on the website with details?
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<adamt>
Am I missing something, or does the kea package lack systemd-unit and any form of configuration options?
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<digitalmentat>
adamt, not all derivations under pkgs/ have corresponding NixOS modules declaring NixOS options and defining a systemd configuration, that might be the case for kea
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<adamt>
digitalmentat, ah. Why would people spend time on the pkgs but not on the nixos module? Is it packages that comes from plain nix?
<MichaelRaskin>
Packages are usable outside NixOS; and if you have just a manually-written config for the service, it doesn't look nice enough to submit as a module for inclusion.
<digitalmentat>
adamt, often times one will have a module written that isn't very nice but the derivation is still useful to the community
<cransom>
i don't know the proportion, but a good number of packages are also not services that require system configuration either
<MichaelRaskin>
Also, if you submit a package, everyone gets nice Hydra builds and saves five minutes of build time per update or something; for a service the balance is different.
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<infinisil>
I see 738 nixos modules
<digitalmentat>
it takes a lot of effort to write a polished NixOS module that generally useful
<infinisil>
but there's like 17000 packages
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<digitalmentat>
like cransom said not every "package" needs a NixOS module
<adamt>
Fair enough. Kea needs a module, though. Oh well, another thing to write. :P
<digitalmentat>
I highly recommend contributing your module when you finish it :)
<cransom>
i don't see anything wrong with bare minimum functionality in a service. if all it does is have an enable option that creates a service and you dump config text to location for it to run, thats somewhere to start with.
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<MichaelRaskin>
PR backlog! Less code → faster review → to hell with the trivial service.
<sphalerite>
^
<cransom>
some software though, it just doesn't want to be bottled. like the sumologic agent? it assumes it can just have /opt/something and write anywhere it wants and hard codes scripts. it was my first attempt at a module and it was too gross to keep using
<adamt>
digitalmentat, will do. Although at this point I'm/we're mostly reviewing the amount of packages to upversion/fix/create/... if changing to nixos :P
<adamt>
MichaelRaskin, so that's a vote against the bare minimum service/module?
<infinisil>
With nix/nixos we basically fix every broken package out there :P
<digitalmentat>
adamt, I have found nixpkgs to be fairly up-to-date w.r.t package versions
<digitalmentat>
the beautiful thing about it being declarative is that you have, quite possibly, the most rigorous description for how to build packages out there
<infinisil>
Cannot confirm that, namecoin hasn't seen an update in three years until recently
<infinisil>
as an example
<adamt>
digitalmentat, yeah, it's not bad, but so far the list includes kubernetes (from 1.7 to 1.8), zabbix (really really outdated), kea (missing module), so not to bad so far :P
<michaelpj>
the thing is that at the moment updates are usually demand-driven. It would be nice to have some kind of system that encouraged us to update packages when newer versions are available, even if nobody has actually needed that version yet
<michaelpj>
I don't know how other distros manage this
<infinisil>
michaelpj: But it's hard to update stuff you don't know, because you can't test it efficiently
<michaelpj>
sure - by "us" I meant the maintainer of the package
<infinisil>
ah
<digitalmentat>
we use it (Nix + nixpkgs + NixOS) extensively in production and it is pretty amazing as a devenv + build/CI + production OS
<michaelpj>
even if it just emailed me saying "hey, this package you maintain has a newer version, maybe think about updating it sometime", I'd probably do that
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<infinisil>
versions are one of the things where nix has a worse experience than other PM's
<michaelpj>
and that has an API, so you could probably hook that up to a little service
<adamt>
michaelpj, it should be pretty easy to make something that warns on new tags or branches matching a specific pattern (like vX.Y), as long as you got a pointer to the vcs of the package :-)
<michaelpj>
roberth: yeah, more widespread use of automatic updaters might make it possible to do this stuff automatically, but I'd settle for being notified of when it needed to be done manually
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<infinisil>
Notification: "The package <foo> received an update from 1.1 to 1.2, click here to cd to its build and test it", and upon testing it a PR gets created automagically :O
<infinisil>
s/and test it/to test it/
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<michaelpj>
that would be pretty glorious. It feels like you ought to be able to do something sensible for most packages which fetch from tags in a git repo if you specify a tag pattern that matches release tags
<symphorien>
I subsccribe to the rss of the corresponding package in tracker.debian.org to get notified when upstream releases a new version, they already have all the necessary automation
<mbirkis>
jeaye: the script ran ok, but for some reason it did not boot
<mbirkis>
i am installing using a rescue console instead
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<MichaelRaskin>
adamt: to be clear — it _is_ a vote in favour of «bare package first in a separate PR», I didn't mean that the second — service module — PR does harm to the project, it's just that nobody gets around to also submitting it.
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<adamt>
MichaelRaskin, fair enough.
<adamt>
Sleep tight guys and ladies :-)
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] dywedir opened pull request #30619: youtube-dl: 2017.10.01 -> 2017.10.20 (master...youtube-dl) https://git.io/vdbOd
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] dywedir opened pull request #30620: fzy: 0.7 -> 0.9 (master...fzy) https://git.io/vdb3d
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdbsZ
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master bd8daca Vladimír Čunát: Merge branch 'staging'...
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<sphalerite>
How do I get a nix-shell with the stdenv including the C compiler? I see there's a stdenvNoCC, but that seems to be redundant at least for hte purposes of nix-shell since nix-shell -p stdenv doesn't include the compiler.
<sphalerite>
I can of course do nix-shell -p stdenv gcc
<sphalerite>
but is there a neater way?
<jeaye>
mbirkis: Hm
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<infinisil>
sphalerite: nix-shell '<nixpkgs>' -A stdenv
<sphalerite>
infinisil: that seems to me like it gets the pieces for building stdenv, not stdenv itself…?
<sphalerite>
and indeed it also doesn't include gcc :)
<Leo`>
I'm trying to create an env with various Django packages but I want to use Django 1.8 exactly. The thing is that when I do something like python.withPackages (ps: [ ps.django_1_8 ps.djangorestframework ]), then djangorestframe starts pulling another version of Django and I have a conflict...
<Leo`>
This is a simple example but in the end I need tons of other packages. I don't think overriding them all is the solution?
<Leo`>
Is there something cleaner?
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<infinisil>
Leo`: Would using an older nixpkgs version where 1.8 was the default work for you?
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<michaelpj>
perhaps you just want to override `django` to be django 1.8?
<infinisil>
Oh yeah that's better ^^
<Leo`>
Perhaps? I don't know. That could break things?
<Leo`>
What's the point of having several Django version in nixpkgs if we have a single version of all the extra libs. :/
<Leo`>
versions*
<Leo`>
*Just noticed right now the NixOS logo was made of lambdas.*
<infinisil>
Took me a while to notice too xD
<infinisil>
Overriding it for all packages could certainly break things, but I'd say that's unlikely. Using a different nixpkgs version almost certainly won't break anything, but it's not as nice
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<Leo`>
Yes. Plus I don't want to do that globally.
<Leo`>
I still want the rest of my system to use recent packages. :p
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<slack1256>
what is the deal with openGL on nixos?
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<slack1256>
I got to `nix-env -u --eq mplayer' for it to work on some nixos-rebuild . Maybe can it be capture correctly on nixpkgs?
<slack1256>
*can't
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<srhb>
slack1256: The deal is that it's impure.
<infinisil>
Leo`: You should use a nix-shell for that then
<infinisil>
Hmm... I mean the config.nix doesn't really need to be managed by the user anymore with home-manager
<infinisil>
And now it uses an overlay for the installation so config.nix isn't needed anymore
<infinisil>
It just somehow feels wrong to write a nix file with nix itself
<rycee>
In general I think so. For example, assume the future xdg module inserts an overlay that enables packages to, e.g., read configuration from XDG_CONFIG_HOME. Then you'd want the program read the config from there even when running in a nix-shell.
<rycee>
Well, the clever way would be to write a config.nix that loads the home.nix module and returns config.nixpkgs.config…
<rycee>
That may have performance implications, though. So I cannot say if that will end up being the best way to do it.
* infinisil
thinks about that
* infinisil
agrees
<infinisil>
Why would that give bad performance though?
<infinisil>
Oh because all of the home-manager config needs to be evaluated
<infinisil>
rycee: I mean, config.nix can only contain allow{Broken,Unfree} = {true,false}; and packageOverrides, right?
<infinisil>
and packageOverrides is a strict subset of overlays
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<infinisil>
so I think it could be enough to just write allow{Broken,Unfree} to config.nix
<infinisil>
and the nixpkgs.overlays could be written to ~/.config/nixpkgs/overlays.nix
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<infinisil>
Wait no that doesn't work, you can't just write nix from nix
<michaelpj>
I'm a bit confused by this - I'd expect home-manager to be like nixos: have options for config/overlays, but those are independent from the config/overlays in your home directory. The former would apply to home-manager operations, and the latter to independent nix commands
<michaelpj>
if you want them all to be the same you can set up some symlinks
<infinisil>
michaelpj: That's what I was thinking of at first
<infinisil>
But thinking about it again, that's just another different semantic which may even be more confusing
<infinisil>
nixos overlays already don't apply to the users nix
<infinisil>
same with config
<infinisil>
I think it would be much nicer to have something like a home.manageConfig and home.manageOverlays option which you can enable though
<infinisil>
or nixpkgs.manage{Config,Overlays} probably
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<michaelpj>
idk, what's wrong with `homeManager.nixpkgs.config = import some/file; home.".config"."nixpkgs"."config.nix" = some/file` or whatever the syntax is
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<rycee>
Yeah, the easy out would be to expect the user to put `nixpkgs.config = import ~/.config/nixpkgs/config.nix` in their HM config.
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<rycee>
Right. And similar for `nixpkgs.overlays`.
<michaelpj>
I mean, I already do essentially that for nixos
<michaelpj>
it's a bit surprising when you first realise that those aren't really "global" settings, but then it makes sense
<infinisil>
Hmm, so to just have it manage files like normal and let the user decide what he wants to put in config.nix without any convenient option
<infinisil>
that sounds good to me, it could always change later
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<gchristensen>
someone said I should make an index of of the services I have, so I made one, but I don't think anyone will find any surprises: https://nix.gsc.io
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<infinisil>
Oh my god are you serious, nix is trolling me
<infinisil>
I see (_: _: {}) in nixpkgs, me thinks "Oh cool, didn't know nix could ignore arguments like this!". Well, turns out that's not exactly what it's doing
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<infinisil>
_ is a valid variable name :/
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<CrazedProgrammer>
yeah, you can shadow variables
<CrazedProgrammer>
and _ is a valid identifier
<gchristensen>
_- is also a valid id :)
<infinisil>
What is this blasphemy
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<CrazedProgrammer>
it makes complete sense :)
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<gchristensen>
I'm not sure _complete_ sense but I can see how it came to be :)