<gchristensen>
was just setting up a backup tool when I accidentally my data
<infinisil>
Lol
<infinisil>
Well.. that's not very good
<gchristensen>
I would say it is very not good :)
<infinisil>
well said
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<infinisil>
hmm, what filesystem?
<Dezgeg>
shut down and try some undelete utilities?
<gchristensen>
in particular my password db (I have an old backup) .gnupg/ and .ssh
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<infinisil>
Shutting down and trying to recover them is probably your best bet..
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<gchristensen>
I'm trying to justify to myself I'm better off without them
<gchristensen>
lol
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<infinisil>
I lost all my reminders (i had a lot) once, because i didn't do backups, ended up convincing me I don't need them too
<alp>
yeah, fresh start and all that, sure, it's better =)
<infinisil>
It's like a whole new computer!
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<alp>
gchristensen, thanks for your xps/nix post (unless I misremember the name), ended up being very useful to me just 2 weeks ago.
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<gchristensen>
alp: that's me! you're welcome! you can find my first mistake there, not using ZFS :)
<gchristensen>
ok, my password db is backed up somewhere, I think I should be able to recover from there
<gchristensen>
in an odd turn of events it kept all my work in progress / unpushed changes
<gchristensen>
to various projects
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<infinisil>
huh
<infinisil>
how did you delete your ~ exactly?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] fpletz closed pull request #30164: lnav: add platforms metadata so hydra builds on darwin (master...lnav-platforms) https://git.io/vdEDq
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<infinisil>
gchristensen: ^^
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<grahamc>
Sorry I just broke my server too 😅 apparently I shouldn’t be allowed on computers today.
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<infinisil>
lol
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<infinisil>
it happens
<infinisil>
but only once
<grahamc>
I have a tool called remaster which fetches origin/master and resets —hard to upstream I use it a lot on nixpkgs. Apparently my ~/ has a .git dir in it
<infinisil_>
You do that without stashing??
<grahamc>
Yeah it works pretty well every time but this time
<grahamc>
But so here is the kicker. Where it gets exciting.
<grahamc>
I’m an attempt to restore some of my most important ~ files I ran NixOS rebuild switch because I have a module which links files to my home.
<grahamc>
Except I ran it on my server which is managed by NixOps meaning no config is on the server. Which means ...! I locked myself out of my server :)
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<infinisil>
lol^2
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<grahamc>
Infinisil_ could handle stupidity
<grahamc>
Couldn’t handle my stupidity *
<infinisil>
grahamc: Can you reboot the server into the previous config?
<grahamc>
YeH probably
<grahamc>
It’s a bit annoying with the console over IP
<infinisil>
I once was stupid and disabled the grub selection screen, regretted it when it wouldn't boot for the first time
<infinisil>
on the server that is
<grahamc>
Oops
<infinisil>
Now I set it to 1minute, because it often takes quite a while for the web console to come up
<gchristensen>
phew!
<samueldr>
hi!
<infinisil>
welcome back
<samueldr>
oh
<gchristensen>
rolling back to the config on disk restored to the original provisioned config, which included my SSH key on the root account
<samueldr>
don't need to bother anyone
<gchristensen>
hi samueldr!
<samueldr>
channels.nix.gsc.io wasn't loding
<gchristensen>
samueldr: no worries :P I'm just griping about my own silliness :)
<samueldr>
until I said hi
<gchristensen>
LOL
<gchristensen>
perfect timing!
<samueldr>
I say so
<infinisil>
Another satisfied customer, Next!
<gchristensen>
sorry for the trouble :)
<samueldr>
n/p
<gchristensen>
I'm having a bit of an evening
<samueldr>
so it wasn't me?
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<infinisil>
Fixing ones fuck-ups is always nice
<gchristensen>
no, I'm just breaking every computer I touch
<infinisil>
This happens quiet often, that once you do something horrible, you panick and make it even worse
<samueldr>
I'm assuming the second field in the history is UTC timestamp, right?
<gchristensen>
double checking, samueldr
<infinisil>
if I wouldn't have acted stupidly when I fucked up with my reminder data, I could've still saved it
<samueldr>
looks like it, comparing commit time
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<gchristensen>
samueldr: yeah the second field is the timestamp, %at in the `git show --format` docs
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<gchristensen>
UTC, yeah
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<samueldr>
thanks!
<gchristensen>
you're welcome! what're you doing with the data? (just curious so I can make it more useful)
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<samueldr>
trying to figure out which commit to get to synch my armv7 board with Dezgeg's last builds
<gchristensen>
cool
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<samueldr>
btw, aarch64 builds are awesome
<gchristensen>
<3
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<infinisil>
Alright I think my irc bouncer works :D
<samueldr>
don't know if it's known, but modesetting with vc4 on mainline kernel works
<samueldr>
with X11, slim and the graphical apps that are built
<samueldr>
(on raspi 3)
<gchristensen>
nice!
<Dezgeg>
yes, also kmscube, glmark2 and weston-launch work with acceleration
<eqyiel[m]>
whatever does it, it happens after fixupPhase
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<eqyiel[m]>
the problem is that /etc/NetworkManager/VPN/nm-strongswan-service.name points to a path inside the networkmanager-strongswan plugin instead of the path to strongswan in the store
<atorres>
Hello! Can someone tell me how to add LaTeX packages to Nixpkgs?
<TimePath>
set up a local http server, and I can see `"GET /nix-cache-info HTTP/1.1" 200`
<TimePath>
still prefers cache.nixos.org though
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<TimePath>
I null routed cache.nixos.org, and now it's trying my cache
<TimePath>
I now see `lacks a signature; ignoring` errors, which I can trace
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<infinisil>
TimePath: Maybe you could also try setting it in /etc/nix.conf
<infinisil>
or nix.binaryCaches in the nixos configuration
<infinisil>
i know you want it for only 1 command, but maybe this somehow overrides
<infinisil>
it
<TimePath>
even with a single cache in /etc/nix/nix.conf, cache.nixos.org is still tried
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<TimePath>
`signed-binary-caches` is apparently obsolete
<TimePath>
aha
<TimePath>
download-from-binary-cache.pl is gone from master, but still in use locally
<TimePath>
setting `--option signed-binary-caches "0"` does what I want
<TimePath>
however cache.nixos.org is still tried first
<TimePath>
if I manually reduce the `Priority` of my `nix-cache-info`, it is tried first :)
<TimePath>
the cache.nixos.org one is still being downloaded, but that's fine for my use
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: back in the day, where ssds were small, I usually turned atime of to not write as much to the ssd :)
<hyper_ch>
azdle: yes, /etc/nixos/.... won't be touched by rebuilds... so you need to make sure that you have backups of that.... I track mine with git
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<TimePath>
hm, one last thing to work out now. nix-env installs all outputs for a derivation, I just want the binaries in some cases
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<hyper_ch>
infinisil: since there's no trim on zfs, how good does it behave with nearly full fs?
<srhb>
hyper_ch: I think the fragmenting will be a problem before trim on a full fs.
<hyper_ch>
actually, zfs now freed in total like 50 gb on my tb ssd
<hyper_ch>
or more like 70gb
<hyper_ch>
5% ext4 reservation (I think) and compression
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<srhb>
Can I make fetchFromGitHub preserve .git?
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<TimePath>
there's also fetchGit
<srhb>
That's probably easier, yeah...
<TimePath>
I don't see .git being removed
<TimePath>
fetchFromGitHub pulls the zip gh provides
<TimePath>
but if fetchSubmodules is set, it will actually use fetchGit instead
<TimePath>
wouldn't want to rely on that though
<srhb>
Right, and with rev = "refs/tags/v${version}" that seems to actually pull, but still no .git
<srhb>
Indeed.
<TimePath>
how are you confirming the existence of .git?
<srhb>
nix-shell, unpackPhase, ls -l .git
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<srhb>
Er, cd thesources in there somewhere too :-)
<srhb>
Oh, maybe I actually messed that up.
<TimePath>
I haven't had to go this way yet, because my release script lives in the same repo as my project
<TimePath>
so to release, the git repo is already there, fully intact
<srhb>
It's an annoying build script that does some magic with .git to extract the checked out revision for including in the binaries etc.
<srhb>
I might be able to fake it instead.
<srhb>
I don't really want to use the release zips anyway, since part of the reason for my repackaging is to make it easy to build arbitrary revisions of this package.
<TimePath>
yeah
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] nlewo opened pull request #30182: Fix ssh config in nova image (master...pr/nova-config) https://git.io/vduVq
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<otwieracz>
Hm. How does stuff from nixos-master get to nixos-unstable
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<Isorkin>
Hi. Help me to fix build package nftables-snapshot - http://pastebin.ru/M17GBxJC Error - ./configure: line 4774: syntax error near unexpected token `LIBMNL,'
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<hyper_ch>
when running rebuild with --upgrade it should update the channel.... hmmmm, srhb knows this stuff better :)
<srhb>
otwieracz: What does nixos-version say?
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<otwieracz>
18.03pre117327.3fe7cddc30 (Impala)
<srhb>
otwieracz: Exact same commit as me...
<srhb>
otwieracz: Hang on, what did you add to systemPackages?
<hyper_ch>
Isorkin: there's nftables already in nixos... had a look at the current .nix ?
<otwieracz>
srhb: Nothing.
<srhb>
otwieracz: Oh, and you ran nix-env -qaP | grep vivaldi as root as well?
<hyper_ch>
or is nftables-snapshot something different?
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<srhb>
otwieracz: I see: nixpkgs.vivaldi vivaldi-1.12.955.36-1 (ignore nixpkgs, I use a checkout instead of channels)
<srhb>
otwieracz: Bizarre. I just added the same channel as you and I see the entry from it just fine. Does it work if you add it as your user instead of root and run nix-env as your user?
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<srhb>
otwieracz: Perhaps you have an override lying around mucking things up?
<otwieracz>
BUt it's trying to download something!
<otwieracz>
*how*?
<otwieracz>
Nope, still nothing.
<srhb>
OK, I'm officially out of ideas.
<otwieracz>
This has to be totally my dumbest fault ever.
<srhb>
I'd expect something like this with a broken nixPath or something, but with a fresh install, I don't see how that could happen...
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<otwieracz>
I will review my config again.
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<srhb>
It feels like it's reusing a wrong channel download, since the file keeps missing even though it claims to be the right revision.
<srhb>
Perhaps you could remove the channel and collect garbage, then try again. But I'm grasping at straws.
<srhb>
Actually...
<srhb>
Here's an idea
<srhb>
When you update the channel, it shows you a cloudfront url
<srhb>
If you fetch that url manually and unpack it
<srhb>
Is the file there?
<otwieracz>
But I've told you that /nix/var/nix/profiles/per-user/root/channels/nixos/pkgs/applications/networking/browsers/vivaldi was there after I've downloaded it.
<srhb>
Oh, sorry, I misread you then.
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<otwieracz>
But the nix-env is just doing something weird.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] dezgeg pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vdurD
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master e86b783 Tuomas Tynkkynen: nixos/filesystems/ext: Don't try to load ext3 module...
<MichaelRaskin>
Hm. Rowhammer opcode bitflip creates a situation where frequent updates to all the binaries on the system create a security benefit per se, in addition to any bugs actually fixed.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vbgl pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vduKZ
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 58906f3 Vincent Laporte: ocamlPackages.lablgtk-extras: 1.5 -> 1.6
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master aa3535c Vincent Laporte: ocamlPackages.xmlm: 1.2.0 -> 1.3.0
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<hyper_ch>
otwieracz: also on unstable here but no vivaldi can be found with nox
<srhb>
hyper_ch: How about nix-env -qaP | grep vivaldi ?
<srhb>
hyper_ch: And are you using channels or a git clone?
<MichaelRaskin>
Isn't it unfree?
<srhb>
OOOOOOOOOH
<hyper_ch>
nixos unstable channel
<srhb>
Damn it!
<srhb>
:D
<srhb>
MichaelRaskin: Thank you!
<hyper_ch>
I do have unfree enabled
<srhb>
Oh..
<hyper_ch>
nix-env didn't find anything either
<MichaelRaskin>
Where do you have it enabled?
<MichaelRaskin>
I mean, user and system have independent settings for that
<hyper_ch>
# This info is in a different file, so that the config can bit tracked by git without revealing sensitive infos. Feel free to expand
<hyper_ch>
nixpkgs.config.allowUnfree = true;
<MichaelRaskin>
So it is enabled for system configuration, but per-user commands use per-user nixpkgs config.
<hyper_ch>
I only use system configuration... won't nox check that?
<srhb>
otwieracz: ^--- you will need allowUnfree = true; in the ~/.config/nixpkgs/config.nix of the user using nix-env to see it
<srhb>
otwieracz: Sorry, that didn't remotely cross my mind.
<MichaelRaskin>
Nope, nox and nix-env think in terms of per-user.
<hyper_ch>
oh, never knew :)
<otwieracz>
srhb: I've got allow unstable.
<otwieracz>
srhb: erm, allow unfree
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<srhb>
otwieracz: In the user config of the user running nix-env ?
<otwieracz>
In the system wide config.
<hyper_ch>
so would I need to creat the config.nix for the user myself?
<srhb>
otwieracz: That's the issue.
<srhb>
otwieracz: nix-env only works on user level.
<srhb>
hyper_ch: Yeah.
<otwieracz>
What should be the exact syntax?
<srhb>
otwieracz: pkgs : { allowUnfree = true; }
<otwieracz>
That helped.
<otwieracz>
Thank you.
<hyper_ch>
or just add vivaldi to the package list in the global configuration - that should work as well I think
<srhb>
otwieracz: Fantastic. I always forget that darn parameter. It was MichaelRaskin that pointed it out. :)
<xd1le>
> "A browser that is fast, but also a browser that is rich in functionality, highly flexible and *puts the user first*."
<xd1le>
> nonfree
<MichaelRaskin>
We need a bot with sentiment analysis and a list of unfree packages. If someone is frustrated about an unfree package, ask about unfree. If reply has «enabled» and «unfree» — ask «system-wide or per-user»
<hyper_ch>
:)
<srhb>
MichaelRaskin: That's actually a great idea.
<srhb>
It probably needn't be very smart.
<hyper_ch>
irc bot?
<srhb>
Yeah.
<MichaelRaskin>
I guess you could train it in the style of bayesian spam-filter. But that requires some manual training. And maybe proper bot design, too.
<srhb>
pish-posh ;-)
<MichaelRaskin>
All the pesky details like «what is an incident»
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<otwieracz>
Is this possible to fetch one package from master somehow?
<MichaelRaskin>
Yes, in multiple ways!
<otwieracz>
(firefox-57)
<srhb>
otwieracz: You can fetch any number of packages from any number of repositories.
<srhb>
It's OK, most people don't get my jokes. Perhaps I'm unfunny.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Mic92 opened pull request #30183: openafs-client: don't remove kernel module on stop (master...openafs) https://git.io/vduP0
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<TimePath>
ceph looks useful
<srhb>
Extremely.
<TimePath>
currently have no use for it though
<srhb>
And it is -- I'm just very, very tired of my ansible deployment.
<srhb>
Because Ansible.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 4 new commits to master: https://git.io/vduPz
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 62f4ded Tom Hunger: bokeh: 0.12.7 -> 0.12.9
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 8cc240a Tom Hunger: flake8-future-import: Add patch to fix tests.
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 83e48f7 Tom Hunger: xarray: Add upstream patch to fix tests. (#28643)
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<srhb>
It's a perfect fit for a nixos module (which I haven't tried making yet) but I need to make the thing *build* first :-)
<TimePath>
and you can't start with a binary release?
* bigvalen
has been very much a 'nixos on his home NAS, learn it properly later' person but has recently decided that it's probably the way to go for lean container deployments.
<srhb>
TimePath: Possibly, but one of my main use cases is actually altering the commits slightly to get upstream fixes. Perhaps I'm just being too ambitious.
<bigvalen>
Heh. I specified 'mailutils' in environment.systemPackages and it's building it from source for me.
<srhb>
bigvalen: Huh, wonder if it's broken in your channel.
<bigvalen>
I'm on stable - it was broken back in July..
<TimePath>
srhb: well, if you're lucky, someone else will do the hard work for you :)
* bigvalen
just realised that 17 probably means 2017 and 03 probably means march
<hyper_ch>
bigvalen: yeup
<TimePath>
once there's a module and people can actually use it on nixos
<srhb>
TimePath: Afraid not. And honestly I'd like to do it. :)
<srhb>
Oh, I understand what you mean now.
<bigvalen>
Haven't had an easy-to-understand release numbering since I loved Solaris 2.5.1 11/97
<hyper_ch>
bigvalen: any reason you stick to stable?
<srhb>
This is a good point, I had not considered it.
<bigvalen>
hyper_ch No reason to run fast, to be honest. Until last week I was on unstable, chasing plex, before giving up and just running the offical docker container
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 2 new commits to release-17.09: https://git.io/vduXY
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.09 649d04e Frederik Rietdijk: Merge pull request #29741 from teh/zhf-17.09...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.09 407b824 Frederik Rietdijk: python.pkgs.xarray: fixed by 649d04e8519c2cf2b06d4d7d56f87ac3b0f7fed8
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<bigvalen>
Anyway. Before the wife drags me out for breakfast - is there a good docker/nixos tutorial ?
<srhb>
I think lethalman had some blog posts on creating very lean docker images.
<srhb>
bigvalen: Looks like mailutils started succeeding on 17.03 three days ago, but the channel hasn't updated yet.
<bigvalen>
TimePath, srhb: thanks.
<bigvalen>
I installed it via source, but it's bitching about no 'mailer'
<bigvalen>
Later.
<srhb>
bigvalen: It looks good on 17.09 :)
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<srhb>
I've asked this before, but just in case: Is there any way to use ccache to speed up nix builds? I'm guessing "not obviously" because of hash issues...
<MichaelRaskin>
I think there is ccacheStdenv, actually.
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 8f362a1 Spencer Baugh: tools/system/supervise: init at 1.0.0
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master a9e090f Spencer Baugh: pythonPackages.supervise_api: init at 0.1.5
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<TimePath>
double the clock rate, 4 cores
<hyper_ch>
I got 2 cores and hyperthreading :)
* TimePath
doesn't believe in hyperthreading
<hyper_ch>
but still, 6m is really nice
<srhb>
Ooooh, very interesting.
<srhb>
I'll give that a go next time around.
<hyper_ch>
but I guess you don't build virtualbox
<hyper_ch>
srhb: give what a try?
<srhb>
ccacheStdenv
<srhb>
I was away for a few minutes, hence the non-sequitur.
<hyper_ch>
it's ok
<srhb>
I hear i7 for laptops is mostly a waste of money
<srhb>
I need to consider what I should get next...
<hyper_ch>
good notebooks aren't easy to find
<hyper_ch>
there's always usually a gazillion of drawbacks
<MichaelRaskin>
Good notebooks seem to be impossible to find.
<sphalerite>
I'm pretty happy with my XPS 15
<hyper_ch>
even trying to get a notebook that supports 16gb ram isn't an easy task
<CrazedProgrammer>
hyperthreading gives a ~40% boost to the total processing speed. if all virtual cores are at 100% then you get 70% the performance on a single core
<sphalerite>
its has 16GB RAM :p
<hyper_ch>
sphalerite: can you lend it to me for like.... 1-2 years?
<sphalerite>
hyper_ch: hmmmm no
<TimePath>
CrazedProgrammer: for the same processor, with HT on vs off. I'd rather just have double the cores though
<srhb>
CrazedProgrammer: How does that even work?
<hyper_ch>
no idea how hyperthreading works... I assume it's not just marketing things and that it actually does benefit
<CrazedProgrammer>
TimePath: yeah, of course. the selection on mobile chips is really poor though
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* TimePath
is a desktop guy
<hyper_ch>
I don't believe in desktops
<MichaelRaskin>
I bought a slightly used ThinkPad W530, which I upgraded to 32GiB. W540 was available but had unusable touchpad (why do they parrot Apple so much). W530 BIOS is a parody of software, and Optimus is done wrong.
<TimePath>
to go from my i5 to an i7 was like 50% more cost
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<TimePath>
same amount of cores, lower clock rate, but had hyperthreading
<TimePath>
didn't seem worth it
<MichaelRaskin>
Why cannot Asus put their ZenBook motherboards into their N metal bodies and fill the huge amount of space available with battery.
<TimePath>
hyper_ch: think "concurrency", but not "parallel"
<TimePath>
kinda like nodejs vs apache
<TimePath>
if you do something stupid with node, everything in that process suffers
<MichaelRaskin>
Thinkpad has an almost desktop-grade i7 though.
<CrazedProgrammer>
srhb: the internal scheduler schedules the instructions of the virtual cores so they are more tightly packed together and can use different stages of the fetch/decode/execute stages at different times
<hyper_ch>
are thinkpads still that clunky?
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<srhb>
CrazedProgrammer: Magic!
<MichaelRaskin>
I want clunky, because clunky = space for battery
<hyper_ch>
few hours of operation is fine for me
<srhb>
I have a t530, it's aging a bit now...
<CrazedProgrammer>
TimePath: me too. my ryzen 5 1600 crushes my i5 6200U
<hyper_ch>
don't want a too heavy notebook
<srhb>
And the battery is mostly a 3 second UPS.
<hyper_ch>
so max 15"
<hyper_ch>
dvd not reauired, at least 16GB ram
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<hyper_ch>
no need for interl video card is fine...
<hyper_ch>
geez, can't type
<MichaelRaskin>
ZenBook pro seems to allow 16GiB
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<TimePath>
the high-end graphics card I got in 2007 is equivalent to the integrated intel graphics I got last year...
<srhb>
I would love a beefy lightning thing with 32GiB ram, excellent monitor, excellent keyboard, excellent touchpad, no discrete GPU _but_ the ability to use an eGPU with impunity.
<srhb>
It doesn't seem to exist.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 1 new commit to staging: https://git.io/vdu1c
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/staging acfec16 Frederik Rietdijk: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master' into HEAD
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<hyper_ch>
notebooks are a pain to buy
<MichaelRaskin>
For some reason, people cannot even do a proper keyboard layout.
<hyper_ch>
yeah, why would anyone want a different keyboard layout and swiss german anyway...
<hyper_ch>
s/and/than/
<MichaelRaskin>
That's not a problem, I am OK with whatever labels they drunkenly put on keys as long as I can remap
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] FRidh force-pushed python-unstable from 177f8dc to af6c775: https://git.io/v5aIf
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/python-unstable 5483a63 Will Dietz: pyqt: 5.8.1 -> 5.9
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/python-unstable af6c775 Will Dietz: sip: 4.19.1 -> 4.19.3
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<hyper_ch>
remap as taking out keys and put them in the right spot?
<MichaelRaskin>
But ThinkPad manages to put a crammed-14'' style _physical_ layout in a 15.6'' notebook.
<hyper_ch>
or remap as use different layout in the software?
<MichaelRaskin>
I am OK with up to 50% of my keys having wrong labels
<hyper_ch>
I'm not
<hyper_ch>
it just feels wrong
<MichaelRaskin>
I have typed Russian on Danish-only external keyboard, I don't care anymore.
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<srhb>
MichaelRaskin: ow. :D
<MichaelRaskin>
The problem is that they mess up the physical layout first, then also mess logical layout on top of it.
<hyper_ch>
or why don't have notebooks LED keys where you can just change the layout as you want
<MichaelRaskin>
srhb: it is actually simpler than blank keycaps, because you have _some_ kind of visual homing.
<srhb>
True enough.
<srhb>
(I'm used to Danish, but I'd have trouble with russian regardless of the keyboard ;-))
<srhb>
Russian*
<MichaelRaskin>
I pretend I can read Danish.
<srhb>
Det er nemt. :-)
<srhb>
Anyway, laptops.. I give up. Can we get thin, portable terminals instead or something.
<hyper_ch>
MichaelRaskin: reading danish is simple... understanding is the problem :)
<TimePath>
knowing nothing about danish, I got "that is ..."
<srhb>
TimePath: "easy" :)
<MichaelRaskin>
hyper_ch: I understood enough to shop for food while being a postdoc in Denmark.
<hyper_ch>
postdoc?
<hyper_ch>
that sounds like a lot of work
<srhb>
Presumably, "doc" is the hard part.
<TimePath>
srhb: well, like I said, I know nothing about danish :P
<srhb>
:)
<hyper_ch>
after getting your "doc" you'll need to reintegrated yourself into society.... tht sounds hard
<MichaelRaskin>
Frankly, CPU/RAM part is almost offloadable nowadays.
<srhb>
I have been considering doing the building in the cloud, but it's non-cheap.
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<srhb>
Perhaps I'd be better off setting up a beefy home machine and just doing everything over ssh.
<MichaelRaskin>
Gigabyte BRIX are actually backpackable _if_ you want to carry something fast and heavy.
<MichaelRaskin>
hyper_ch: integrating? for a one-two year position?
<TimePath>
srhb: that's my plan if I ever get a laptop
<MichaelRaskin>
I mean, it is infeasible to learn oral Danish that fast anyway, but everyone speaks English if asked.
<hyper_ch>
while writing your thesis, don't you seclude yourself from society for a year or so....?
<TimePath>
also I love the NUC form
<MichaelRaskin>
Now, here in France broken French can be useful on top of fluent English.
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<MichaelRaskin>
It's only if you want to finish it in a reasonable time.
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<sphalerite>
yes. The French don't like speaking English.
<hyper_ch>
tu parles français?
<MichaelRaskin>
Un peu.
<srhb>
TimePath: It's probably not too bad with nix, because the daemon can offload, I guess...
<MichaelRaskin>
What is more important, they _do_ understand bad French.
<MichaelRaskin>
In France, you can speak in something remotely similar to French and people will understand and try to use simpler phrases so you don't run out of your vocabulary.
<TimePath>
and it's probably wrong, because I haven't studied french in ages
<MichaelRaskin>
TimePath: I think NUCs marketed as NUCs are weak.
<hyper_ch>
je n'étais jamais bien en français à l'école... mais pendant mon service militaire en Romandie tout à changer - malheureusement j'ai oublié le pluspart
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<makefu>
musteresel: the binary cache is amazon s3, so maybe you are very far from the region it is currently configured for (europe afair)
<MichaelRaskin>
A few years ago BRIX was the only fast and still cariiable option.
<sphalerite>
I think French speakers might be more likely to end up using guix than nix?
<musteresel>
makefu: I'm in germany ... near Frankfurt (large network node) .. so shouldn't be a problem?
<TimePath>
MichaelRaskin: that's not what I look for in a NUC though, it's the portability factor for streaming
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<TimePath>
put your noisy computer in a room, plug your NUC in somewhere else
<makefu>
musteresel: then you should have no issues, unfortunately s3 is sometimes a bit flakey.
<xd1le>
sphalerite: why?
<musteresel>
makefu: ok, I'll probably try again in an hour or so. Thanks for the info!
<makefu>
just try again right now, you might be lucky :)
<hyper_ch>
so, testing now autosnap shot with zfs
<hyper_ch>
sphalerite: what's guix?
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<TimePath>
it's nix, but with GNU guile
<TimePath>
which is a lisp
<MichaelRaskin>
Which they use both for packages and for builders.
<sphalerite>
hyper_ch: it's like GNU nix. It's based on nix, but has a much stronger free software focus, is a GNU project, and uses guile scheme rather than its own language
<sphalerite>
xd1le: because (I have the impression) French people seem to associate with the GNU philosophy quite a bit, I think it's a cultural thing, plus the original author is French
<MichaelRaskin>
Much stronger free software focus than Nix should be called «only package free software».
<hyper_ch>
LIberté, égalité, fraternité :)
<TimePath>
I've not looked into it, but how does it work in practice? nix being lazy is quite helpful
<sphalerite>
that I don't know
<MichaelRaskin>
Implementing laziness on top of any good Lisp is _easy_.
<TimePath>
I can implement laziness on top of C too if I want
<MichaelRaskin>
That will not be as easy.
<xd1le>
sphalerite: oh i didn't know ludo is french
<xd1le>
nice
<hyper_ch>
hmmm, another day, another data hack: disqus
<sphalerite>
well I'm actually just assuming based on the evidence - he does have a French-sounding name and works in France
<sphalerite>
I don't know for sure
<xd1le>
sphalerite: cool about the cultural thing though, thanks
<sphalerite>
xd1le: I'm not French myself but it seems to align well with the experience I had while living in France, and the values of the French republic as they are perceived by the French
<sphalerite>
again just IME. Not sure how generalisable that is
<xd1le>
he does have a french name, just realised
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<xd1le>
sphalerite: i know that for example, free software is also a bit of a thing in south america and spain because rms is fluent in spanish. but didn't know about the french connection™
<LnL>
that should work, not sure what your question was
<TimePath>
huzzah, 4minute incremental builds
<LnL>
you need to import nixpkgs twice unless you use nix 1.12
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<cocreature>
using nixpkgs to pin nixpkgs seems a bit fishy ;)
<cocreature>
but I guess fetchurl is unlikely to change very often
<gchristensen>
cocreature: In The Future, nix's fetchtarball cantake a hash, IIRC
<LnL>
indeed, you can pass a hash to builtins.fetchurl with nix 1.12
<cocreature>
ah great
<TimePath>
The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed
<LnL>
but until then using the fetchurl from nixpkgs is the best solution
<LnL>
unless you pull it out of the nix expression
<srhb>
Hmm, I don't think I'm using the ccache thing right.. Do I need to do something more clever than just replace stdenv with ccacheStdenv?
<MichaelRaskin>
Probably you need to configure something about cache location. And add that cache location to the list of paths allowed inside sandbox.
<TimePath>
I don't think it magically stores the cache outside the build environment
<srhb>
Sadface.
<srhb>
But, okay, if I keep the build environment around, I should be okay?
<srhb>
Is there a directory I could look for?
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<mgdelacroix>
Hi!! I want to deploy an application in the form of a nix package and to run it using a systemd service. I'm able to create the .service file from the derivation, but how should I integrate it with the rest of the system?
<TimePath>
are you using nix-build or nix-shell to try and build ceph?
<srhb>
mgdelacroix: just enable it :)
<srhb>
TimePath: nix-shell so far.
<srhb>
nix-build will probably be more tricky.
<TimePath>
nix-shell is far nicer for iterating on why things won't build
<srhb>
Indeed, I'll only switch once I have things working.
<srhb>
Probably never, at this rate :-)
<TimePath>
what problems are you running into mostly?
<sphalerite>
cocreature: why it doesn't always redownload: it caches for a couple of hours iirc
<sphalerite>
heh, matrix says the room has 999 members :D
<TimePath>
I see 939
<sphalerite>
huh.
<sphalerite>
Well the IRC bridge isn't the best at keeping track of things
<srhb>
mgdelacroix: For instance, I have a service like systemd.services.myserver = { serviceConfig = { ExecStart = "${mypackage}/bin/start"; }; wantedBy = ["multi-user.target"]; };
<mgdelacroix>
srhb: the file ends up in my ~/.nix-profile/lib/systemd/system, and doesn't appear in the list-units output
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<TimePath>
Consistency, Availability, Partition tolerance: choose two
<srhb>
mgdelacroix: Oh, you're not on NixOS?
<mgdelacroix>
srhb: I see, that would be ok for nixos (AFAIK) but not if I want to deploy it on a (for example) debian&nix
<mgdelacroix>
I am, but my prod system is not, sadly :(
<srhb>
mgdelacroix: No, indeed. Then you're on your own for copying things to their right places etc.
<srhb>
mgdelacroix: This is, basically, the justification for NixOS.
<mgdelacroix>
I see, so maybe linking the file to one of the systemd paths would do, right?
<srhb>
mgdelacroix: Yeah. :)
<mgdelacroix>
srhb: I'll try right away, thanks!!! :)
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<sphalerite>
TimePath: is partition tolerance really useful if you don't have availability with it?
<MichaelRaskin>
sphalerite: it's a trick question.
<TimePath>
sphalerite: some systems have a master node, and the whole thing falls apart without it. Matrix isn't like that
<MichaelRaskin>
If you don't have partition tolerance, and a partition does happen, now what do you expect to happen?
<sphalerite>
aah right fair enough
<TimePath>
everyone can lose internet connectivity to a bunch of everyone, but so long as there's at least one bond between everyone, it all still works
<TimePath>
just not consistently, because there's no authoritative ordering of events that a master node would provide
<sphalerite>
and why does #nixos show up as #nixos:pierrebeaucamp.com for me?
<TimePath>
that one I can't answer
<sphalerite>
it used to be #freenode_#matrix:matrix.org
<TimePath>
it still is
<TimePath>
it has three aliases
<hyper_ch>
sphalerite: you also use zfs, right?
<sphalerite>
hyper_ch: yes
<hyper_ch>
sphalerite: I assume you use auto snapshotting but do you also use auto scrubbing?
<TimePath>
sphalerite: I don't know if the canonical alias has been set here
<MichaelRaskin>
It has three aliases that all assume that FreeNode is source of truth. And FreeNode can have an own internal partition.
<TimePath>
right; matrix being bridged here is subject to IRC's network handling
<sphalerite>
hyper_ch: I use autosnapshot on my server (yes yes I get it you use debian on servers no need to mention it every time someone talks about a server running nixos) but not autoScrub, although I probably should
<TimePath>
which has netsplits and no merges
<sphalerite>
distributed systems are complicated.
<TimePath>
you could netsplit matrix too, but a server would have to lose connectivity to all others
<TimePath>
and yet still be accessible to its users
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<MichaelRaskin>
Well, you could have a true partition. Which is easy — just cut the only two underwater cables into some country.
<sphalerite>
and they'd catch up when the server gets connected again, right?
<sphalerite>
pretty neat stuff
<TimePath>
yup
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<MichaelRaskin>
In a complicated barely-connected situation I think that ordering of messages will become annoying
<TimePath>
though people in each partition would see things in different orders
<srhb>
Oh, something works.
<srhb>
Now to figure out how to reconfigure without nuking the ccache
<Rembane>
"Somebody reconnected the atlantic cables, now you have a backlog of over nine thousand messages. Congratulations."
<hyper_ch>
sphalerite: hmmm, I think I'll try auto scrubbing
<TimePath>
I get that every day from this channel :P
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<Rembane>
:D
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<MichaelRaskin>
Well, so far matrix protocol seems to solve a somewhat simpler problem tha a full DVCS. And you know, unlike Git some DVCSes created a lot of useful writing about these problems.
<TimePath>
simpler.. how?
<MichaelRaskin>
Because matrix is add-only and gives up on ordering in some cases.
<TimePath>
ordering doesn't actually have anything to do with the federation protocol as far as I know
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<MichaelRaskin>
It does have something to do with simultaneous-addition merges in DVCSes.
<TimePath>
unlike a DVCS, no human decides what to do in a merge conflict
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdu9k
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master a982b20 Vladimír Čunát: Merge branch 'staging'...
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<MichaelRaskin>
Also, a DVCS can have three branches that sometimes do two-branch merges. These merges can also be unidirectional. In matrix, all forks should be merged at the first opportunity.
<MichaelRaskin>
Unlike a DVCS, all merge conflicts are defined away.
<MichaelRaskin>
If you have two additions in the same place? well, order of arrival, doesn't need to be globally identical.
<TimePath>
the first opportunity might be an octopus merge
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<hyper_ch>
still pondering if I should turn off atime on zfs
<MichaelRaskin>
And chaging an entry doesn't happen in DVCS sense.
<MichaelRaskin>
And creation of a new channel on two different servers is not a problem, because namespacing.
<sphalerite>
hyper_ch: do you ever use atime?
<adisbladis>
hyper_ch: Not useful very often imo
<hyper_ch>
no
<sphalerite>
well then turn it off :)
<TimePath>
MichaelRaskin: point made :)
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vdu9G
<MichaelRaskin>
TimePath: basically, the underlying event synchronisation is the same, and DVCS design has created a lot of texts on synchronisation protocols.
<hyper_ch>
hmmm, when I build a custom iso with nix... then alter my iso.nix file and rebuild again, the previously created iso and stuff is still there until I do run garbage collection, right?
<TimePath>
yeah
<TimePath>
I filled up my SSD on friday because I hadn't GC'd in a while
<TimePath>
120GB of cached builds+dependencies
<hyper_ch>
wasn't sure about iso building... trying to build iso with kde, my keyboard layout, zfs, and a few programs :)
<TimePath>
ISO building will use more space than normal builds
<TimePath>
since it copies all the dependencies into it
<hyper_ch>
it's about 800mb now
<hyper_ch>
but haven't actually tried to run the iso ;)
<hyper_ch>
well, adding cryptsetup, htop, kate and tmux and running kde with my keyboard layout - that's what I have this far
<prietoj>
Hello! I just bought an intel nuc and tried to install the latest nixos via USB. I created a boot partition (vfat16) and a regular partition (ext4) with full disk encryption. Then I just generated the default configuration.nix and installed nixos. After removing the USB and rebooting I was able to start the NixOS Stage 1 but it failed: "waiting for device /dev/disk/by-uuid/..." and then "mount: mounting /dev/disk/by-uuid/... failed: No
<prietoj>
May it have something to do with the fulldisk encryption?
<TimePath>
I've seen that error before when the initrd didn't have modules for the physical disk
<TimePath>
though I wasn't using encryption
<hyper_ch>
prietoj: with full disk encryption you'll need to adjust the uuid
<hyper_ch>
there should be two entries in the hardware configuration nix.... one is for the actual partition and one is for the mapper device
<mgdelacroix>
srhb: working perfectly, btw, more or less like: ln -s ~/.nix-profile/lib/systemd/system/my.service ~/.config/systemd/user/ && systemctl --user daemon-reload && systemctl --user status my.service
<hyper_ch>
the boot.initrd.luks.devices need to have the uuid of /dev/sdaX
<mgdelacroix>
srhb: thanks again :)
<hyper_ch>
prietoj: and fileSystems."/" = will need to uuid of the actual mapper device/uncrypted filesystem
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<prietoj>
I thought I was not supposed to modify the hardware configuration file
<hyper_ch>
(another option which I'm testing curretnly is to use encrypted zfs.... there, the hardware-cofniguration.nix gets generated correctly)
<hyper_ch>
prietoj: usually you don't need to modify it... with luks/dm-crypt root encryption you will have to
<srhb>
mgdelacroix: Good :)
<prietoj>
hyper_ch: Ok, I'll give it a try. Thanks!
<srhb>
mgdelacroix: I think personally I'd manually copy the service into place, because I think using the user profiles for this is a bit funky, but yeah.
<mgdelacroix>
srhb: was going to say exactly that, just discovered that, if linked, a systemctl --user disable my.service will delete the link from ~/.config/systemd/user, so better to copy
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<hyper_ch>
the uuid of the luks device is different from the uncrypted filesytem one :)
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] jtojnar opened pull request #30189: Rely on XML_CATALOG_FILES variable for DocBook (staging...docbook-xml-catalogs-hook) https://git.io/vduHj
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<srhb>
mgdelacroix: Right. :)
<prietoj>
hyper_ch: I see. How can I get that uuid?
<hyper_ch>
prietoj: ls -al /dev/disk/by-uuid
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<hyper_ch>
ok, kde didn't start from that iso..... where did I go wrong? :)
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<flokli>
In case sb is still searching a bed for nixcon, I booked a 'two single bed room' at the k which costed the same as a single bed room. Wouldn't mind to share ;-)
<MichaelRaskin>
I am not fully sure: read graphical.nix, it enables kde4
<hyper_ch>
then tht's not the current nix... when I download the graphical iso is uses kde5
<MoreTea>
hm, `docker save` is including a timestamp...
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<MichaelRaskin>
Well, it depends on how much you need to download.
<hyper_ch>
you sound like you have already created 3-4 isos
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<MichaelRaskin>
adisbladis: well, making Ceph build seems to be fun, judging from feedback.
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<MichaelRaskin>
hyper_ch: like seven years ago I was probably burning a NixOS build-self-sufficient DVD once in a couple of months.
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<MichaelRaskin>
Maybe not seven, maybe six.
<hyper_ch>
:)
<hodapp>
hmmm. seven years ago I was probably still running Ubuntu.
* hodapp
shudders
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<hyper_ch>
I was using kubuntu 7 years ago
<hyper_ch>
even 6 years ago
<adisbladis>
Seven years ago I was on Gentoo..
* adisbladis
shudders more
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<hodapp>
I switched to Arch in 2013.
<hodapp>
it was...... educational?
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<hodapp>
part of why I switched away from Arch is because Nix was perpetually borked there and I just wanted to try it
<rct>
Hi - I'm quite new to NixOS and I wanted to install a package with 'nix-env -i' command, but it failed because of a hash mismatch. What can I do in this case? Could anybody help me, please?
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<MichaelRaskin>
My first NixPkgs commit is actually more than ten years ago.
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<hodapp>
MichaelRaskin: SHOWOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
<adisbladis>
hodapp: I've never had a distro breaking as much as arch
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<TimePath>
my first commit of all time was probably ten years ago >.>
<hodapp>
adisbladis: bleh. it was normally really stable for me, but when stuff broke, it was nasty.
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<hodapp>
adisbladis: I remember Arch's violation of certain conventions preventing certain Python packages from ever working right, for instance.
<adisbladis>
Even Gentoo 12-13 years ago was more pleasant than Arch..
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<adisbladis>
hodapp: Hmm what was that
<hodapp>
I tried to run Gentoo 12-13 years ago. I didn't have an Ethernet connection in that room to the Internet, just wireless, and for some awful reason, it was completely impossible to work around this.
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<MichaelRaskin>
I dunno, after A/B LFS Gentoo didn't impress me and didn't seem an interesting thing to explore.
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<hodapp>
eventually I tried to build madwifi (remember that, folks?) from source and it failed because it needed uuencode/uudecode and no one could tell me what package contained this.
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<hodapp>
MichaelRaskin: hm, I have never tried LFS
<srhb>
NixOS has always reminded me of Gentoo a lot, in a good way. I like the easy access to source builds.
<srhb>
Well, I guess NixOS reminds me of ports (in a good way)
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<MichaelRaskin>
I remember using ndiswrapper for Broadcom WiFi card.
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<MichaelRaskin>
After LFS, Gentoo seemed quite intransparent about how to build from source some core parts.
<hodapp>
srhb: I've made ready use of the sort of seamless access to source builds
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<hodapp>
adisbladis: TensorFlow is one thing that never ever worked right if I wanted CUDA support.
<MichaelRaskin>
Yeah, maybe making them a new default over a few years would be nice.
<gchristensen>
exactly :)
<MichaelRaskin>
(My point was that they are _trivial_ to implement, so anyone who actively wants them, has them)
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<gchristensen>
I know
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<adisbladis>
gchristensen: Just like most of systemd :) It's not really novel stuff but packaging it up nicely for easy use
<gchristensen>
right
<MichaelRaskin>
«nicely»
<gchristensen>
;)
<hyper_ch>
MichaelRaskin: in the iso.nix - how can I make it so that it writes some file onto the "live image"? Like I'd provide a default .tmux.conf in /root/
<hodapp>
or packaging it up, at least.
<gchristensen>
this is weird: cat some-file.txt | systemd-run ---pipe --property=DynamicUser=1 sort -u | grep -i foobar > some-other-file.txt
<MichaelRaskin>
I think the problem is discussed on GitHub in some NixPkgs issue
<ij>
With UEFI, should /boot be the partition or a bind-mount from /boot/EFI/nixos?
<MichaelRaskin>
That it cannot have TTY with separate in and out
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<gchristensen>
/boot should be the partitionb
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] nlewo closed pull request #30182: Fix ssh config in nova image (master...pr/nova-config) https://git.io/vduVq
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<ij>
gchristensen, nixos-install tries to put a symlink in it, which it can't candle(the fs).
<gchristensen>
you ran nixos-generate-config --root /mnt ?
<gchristensen>
and did you mount the partition to /mnt/boot or /boot ?
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<ij>
/mnt/b/boot and --root /mnt/b
<MichaelRaskin>
And does the configuration include anything about copyKernels
* ij
has to leave now
<gchristensen>
why are you using /mnt/b ?
<ij>
because /mnt has other mounts there already, I'm on arch and I've installed nixos-install.
<ij>
It doesn't handle --root well?
<gchristensen>
oh man
<gchristensen>
I have no idea :)
<gchristensen>
I didn't know you could install nixos-install
<gchristensen>
are you running nixos-install with --root?
<MichaelRaskin>
gchristensen: that part is actually easy.
<ij>
gchristensen, yes
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<gchristensen>
huh
<gchristensen>
not sure, we don't _really_ test that flow much
<ij>
myeah, I had such a suspicion
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<gchristensen>
I'll make a test about installing to /mnt/b, but it won't resemble your arch env
<wilornel>
home-manager tells me "Suggested commands:
<wilornel>
systemctl --user start gpg-agent.service", but then when I try it, I get "Failed to start gpg-agent.service: Operation refused, unit gpg-agent.service may be requested by dependency only."
<adisbladis>
wilornel: Home-managers gpg-agent is socket activated only
<wilornel>
also, my home.nix says `enable = true;`, but when I check `systemctl --user status gpg-agent.service`, I get "● gpg-agent.service - GnuPG cryptographic agent and passphrase cache Loaded: loaded (/nix/store/1g08w0521ai656xkkx0qj8rs2jp6jvym-home-manager-files/.config/systemd/user/gpg-agent.service; linked; ven Active: inactive (dead)
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<wilornel>
"
<adisbladis>
wilornel: If you actually try to use gpg-agent it will start up :)
<wilornel>
how do I do that? I don't have the `gpg-connect-agent` command
<MoreTea>
btw, does any of you know how to GC just one derivation?
<LnL>
nix-store --delete
<MoreTea>
that deletes all dead paths from the store.
<MoreTea>
Ah, it accepts a list of paths
<LnL>
oh, didn't even know that worked without a path
<ocharles>
any idea why `nix-instantiate --eval --json -E 'true'` prints nothing to stdout?
<adisbladis>
wilornel: Quite a lot of operations will do that, gpg --sign for one
<ocharles>
`--xml` works fine
<MoreTea>
lnl, yes, it started deleting paths :P
<adisbladis>
Using the ssh-agent mode of gpg-agent will start it too
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<wilornel>
seems like installing gpg-agent does not install gpg
<adisbladis>
wilornel: It does.
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<adisbladis>
wilornel: If you have a look at ~/.config/systemd/user/gpg-agent.service you will see which derivation it references.
<adisbladis>
wilornel: That does not imply installing it in your env though.
<adisbladis>
wilornel: Just do a "nix-shell -p gnupg" for now to test things out :)
<wilornel>
oh, that's installing stuff
<wilornel>
bash, busybox, bootstrap tools
<wilornel>
alright, not installing gpg yet when running nix-shell -p gnupg
<wilornel>
alright, I have the command gpg2 in there
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<wilornel>
after running `gpg2`, and the n`systemctl --user status gpg-agent.service`, it's still inactive
<wilornel>
gpg-connect-agent seems to have started something
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] grahamc pushed 1 new commit to release-17.09: https://git.io/vdubC
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.09 3c0ea4f Tim Steinbach: keybase: Fix modules...
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<adisbladis>
wilornel: Yes, just running gpg2 wont do any operation that actually connects to the socket. gpg-connect-agent will connect to the socket and trigger the startup.
<wilornel>
so gpg-connect-agent started the gpg-agent, but checking gpg-agent.service's status still shows inactive
<adisbladis>
wilornel: Are you checking with "systemctl --user" ?
<wilornel>
yes
<wilornel>
I also have "[nix-shell:~]$ which gpg-connect-agent
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] jokogr opened pull request #30192: grub2: set zfsSupport false by default (master...f/grub2-zfs) https://git.io/vdubu
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<wilornel>
it looked like home-manager was telling me to try to start gpg-agent.service using systemctl. Maybe something else was telling me that?
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<wilornel>
I picked "openjre-8u141b15" from `nix-env -qa` and put that as `programs.openjre-8u141b15 = {};` in home-manager. I also tried with `programs.openjre = {};` . sounds like home-manager does not know about those options. It's unclear how to define what packages I want installed
<hyper_ch>
so, how can I find out what all the options/tools actually are at my disposal?
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<hyper_ch>
I only know about writeScriptBin because of makefu
<hyper_ch>
but I can't find any reference to it where it's actually explained etc
<MoreTea>
check $GIT_REPO/lib
<srhb>
Oh my god, it built.
* srhb
wipes sweat off brow
<MoreTea>
there you can find some "standard libary" of useful functions
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<wilornel>
is home-manager not giving nixpkgs to pkgs for home.nix? I am trying to get pkgs.openjre but pkgs does not have openjre, even though I can find openjre-8u141b15 in `nix-env -qa`
<hyper_ch>
so, where can I find information about writeBinScript and other such function/tools at my disposal?
<yarny>
Hi, as of today (CEST), I'm having a bad time connecting to *.nixos.org. Usual symptom is "download-from-binary-cache.pl: still waiting for ‘https://cache.nixos.org/123...abc.narinfo’ after 5 seconds..." and the nixos.org website is also mostly unreachable (server is not responding). As everything else is working fine, I'm wondering if anybode else is experiencing this?
<MichaelRaskin>
It was reported earlier
<yarny>
A, OK, didn't see this. Thanks!
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<MichaelRaskin>
But I think someone said it was better later today
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<wilornel>
does the nix language have debugging capabilities? I'd like to inspect `pkgs` that's passed into home.nix
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vduAX
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 9c5ef04 lassulus: bitcoin-classic: build with qt5...
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] woffs opened pull request #30193: biboumi: init at 6.1 (master...biboumi) https://git.io/vduA1
<MichaelRaskin>
builtins.trace, which is better used as lib.traceVal
<MichaelRaskin>
(lib.traceVal passes the argument through and does its best to print a textual representation to trace
<MichaelRaskin>
I think you need --show-trace to see the output
<wilornel>
`Unknown command: build --show-trace` and /home/demo/.nix-profile/bin/home-manager: illegal option -- -`, when I try `home-manager build --show-trace` and `home-manager --show-trace build` respectively
<yarny>
It's quite flaky .. from time to time, I can download a few packages, but I didn't manage to do a complete nixos-rebuild today (retrying since 6h).
<rycee>
wilornel: The method Home Manager uses when it gives the suggested "systemctl restart" text is extremely simplistic so take what it says with a grain of salt. Hopefully this will improve in the future if we're able to use the NixOS systemd machinery.
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, you can actually just build everything locally without binary cache at all…
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<srhb>
rycee: Is there a reason home-manager isn't in nixpkgs? :)
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<wilornel>
rycee: thanks for the answer
<wilornel>
I'm still trying to figure home-manager out
<MichaelRaskin>
I think there are multiple solutions, and nobody knows which one is better to merge
<rycee>
wilornel: Home Manager typically sets `pkgs` to the result of `import <nixpkgs> {}` so any package in there should be available.
<wilornel>
If I run `nix-env -qa` and find `openjre-8u141b15`, I should be able to use `pkgs.openjre` or `pkgs.openjre-8u141b15`, or `pkgs.openjre-8`? I'm not sure which one.
<wilornel>
yeah, all of them are missing from pkgs
<olejorgenb[m]>
is anyone using dropbox sucessfully on nixos? It by far the program I have most problems with. Wont start, hangs, etc. Sometimes it's because dropbox demands you run a very recent version but not always.
<olejorgenb[m]>
now it starts, hangs with ~100% cpu for a couple of minues (while blocking dbus or someting - can't open new gnome-terminals for instance)
<olejorgenb[m]>
then crashes
<wilornel>
Alright, that's working, but I would like to get a specific jre. Can I do that with home-manager?
<srhb>
olejorgenb[m]: Works fine for me.
<rycee>
srhb: The tricky part with getting HM into Nixpkgs is how to handle the home-manager command and the Home Manager modules.
<olejorgenb[m]>
srhb: do you mind checking the version?
<srhb>
rycee: Ah, okay. So there is a technical issue. I didn't find anything on nixpkgs.
<tilpner>
hyper_ch - There's no single, centralised, list of them AFAIK. If you already know about writeScriptBin and need more information about its implementation, searching for "writeScriptBin =" in nixpkgs is the best solution, as writeScriptBin has an usual import path via top-level/stage.nix
<rycee>
wilornel: pkgs.jre7, pkgs.jre8, … should work
<tilpner>
*unusual
<wilornel>
open vs. oracle?
<srhb>
olejorgenb[m]: I can make an educated guess, it's on my work PC. It should be around 36.4.22 as that's my current available version on unstable
<rycee>
wilornel: You also have pkgs.jdk8 and pkgs.jre8_headless.
<hyper_ch>
tilpner: the problem is I don't know what other possiblities Ih ve....
<olejorgenb[m]>
yeah, that's the one I use too
<hyper_ch>
tilpner: right now: for the iso creation - how can I puth a file into a folder in the iso? - I want to provide a default .tmux.conf file for root....
<hyper_ch>
tilpner: but since there's no documentation where all possible options are, I have no idea what I even need to look for
<wilornel>
is jdk8 and jre8 the same thing but open vs oracle? I'm not sure. I'm confused about how I map from a package listed in `nix-env -qa` to what I should list in home.nix
<tilpner>
hyper_ch - As was already mentioned, pkgs/build-support and lib are locations to look at if you know what you want, but not how it's called
<hyper_ch>
writeScriptBin was only an example... if makefu hadn't told me about it, I'd still wouldn't know it existed
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<hyper_ch>
tilpner: and how am I supposed to know to even look in pkgs/build-support?
<wilornel>
symphori1: thanks, that clears _some_ things up! However, I was able to list `pkgs.jre8` in home.nix and that does not show up in `nix-env -qaP` not in https://nixos.org/nixos/packages.html . Only jre8_headless shows up there
<hyper_ch>
no idea where to find system.activationScripts.installerDesktop as well
<tilpner>
hyper_ch - Look at isoImage.contents for your tmux config
<rycee>
srhb: Yeah, I'd really like to make it easier to get HM started by installing directly from Nixpkgs but haven't had time to figure out a really nice way to do it. In principle one could simply make a `home-manager` package in Nixpkgs that installs both the home-manager command and the modules. But then you'd have to bump the version of this package quite frequently to have the latest modules available. I guess that would be OK,
<rycee>
at least as a start. But, I'd like to wait a while to see what will happen with NixUP and the possibility of integrating NixUP/Home Manager closer to NixOS. The best solution would depend on the degree of integration we're aiming for.
<symphori1>
the website does not list unfree packages and is for the latest stable, so if you use unstable some this may have changed since
<tilpner>
hyper_ch - It's hidden in trivial-builders.nix
<hyper_ch>
tilpner: how am I to know what isoImage.contents even is?
<wilornel>
symphori1: I did allow unfree packages, but how do I show them in nix-env -qaP? I'll read that in a sec
<symphori1>
pay attention, system wide config (configuration.nix) and user-specific config are totally independent
<hyper_ch>
tilpner: my problem is that there isn't any coherent information at all and if you don't even know what you need to look for, you can't find it
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<tilpner>
hyper_ch - Oh, I absolutely agree, it can be hard to find what you're looking for, and you don't get far without looking at the source
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<wilornel>
symphori1: Ah, so if I want nix-env -qaP to show me unfree /unstable packages as well, I would want to set the unfree thing in home.nix?
<hyper_ch>
so isoImage.contents takes list of files and stores them in iso... but how do I even provide the file?
<symphori1>
hum I don't know how that interacts with home-manager
<rycee>
wilornel: Unfortunately, Home Manager is not able to configure Nix for you … yet.
<wilornel>
(rycee, symphori1, looking into these in a second)
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<tilpner>
hyper_ch - Huh? Is that supposed to be the content of iso.nix?
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<musteresel>
This is becoming increasingly strange: I'm trying to do an nixos-rebuild to the current channels/nixos-17.09 ... but basically timeout after some warnings "download-from-binary-cache.pl: still waiting for [path-to-cache] after 5 seconds". So I did a wget on some of those paths ... all of which result in a 404. Ideas?
<tilpner>
(I expected, well, Nix)
<LnL>
rycee: how did you implement cleanup for that files module?
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<rycee>
LnL: By cleanup you mean figuring out which files were removed between generations?
<LnL>
yeah
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<wilornel>
yes, but, how can I get `nix-env -qaP` to show me unfree / unstable packages?
<hyper_ch>
tilpner: so, how can I make a file in the iso.nix and then have it stored on the iso at a given location?
<symphorien>
for me it lists unfree packages
<moet>
hello nixos! when i `cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_governors` i only see "ondemand performance" .. i'm sure this computer supported also "powersave" in a different linux distro; any idea how to get "powersave" in nixos?
<LnL>
rycee: for etc it's easy since you can just look for broken symlinks, but doing that in ~ or / would be pretty slow
<wilornel>
rycee: Almost!! So it tried to write config.nix, but I already had config.nix with `{ allowUnfree = true; };`. I removed that file, and ran `home-manager switch`, but then home-manager could not continue because flashplayer is not free :)
<rycee>
LnL: It's pretty basic. It'll look at each file path in the old generation and see if the corresponding path exists in the new generation, if it doesn't then it removes the link from the users home directory.
<wilornel>
rycee: I disabled flash, and it worked!
<wilornel>
then I can re-enable flash
<tilpner>
hyper_ch - First you need to be able to set options for your new ISO. But you didn't answer my last question... I have to be away for an hour or so, we can try again later :)
<LnL>
rycee: hmm, that works correctly with --switch-generation?
<wilornel>
symphorien: Hmmm it lists flashplayer, which is unfree for me
<wilornel>
symphorien: so I guess I am looking to list unstable packages
<symphorien>
what is the prefix of the attribute ?
<symphorien>
nixos ?
<symphorien>
nixpkgs ?
<rycee>
LnL: What does `--switch-generation` do? I guess just switching from one generation to a new?
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<rycee>
LnL: If so then it should work correctly (at least I have had very little issues with it).
<LnL>
like rollback but potentially skipping a few generations
<wilornel>
symphorien: pkgs.jre8 is what I was able to install using home-manager, but jre8 does not show up in https://nixos.org/nixos/packages.html nor in `nix-env -qaP`
<wilornel>
and `pkgs = import <nixpkgs> {} ;`, as per rycee
<symphorien>
yes but I mean in the output of nix-env -qaP
<symphorien>
are you on nixOS or just using bare nix ?
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<rycee>
wilornel: Not sure why it doesn't. Maybe these commands avoid writing the same thing multiple times and `all-packages.nix` contains `jre = jre8;`…
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<wilornel>
symphorien: on nixos
<wilornel>
rycee: Hmmm maybe that's why..
<wilornel>
Is it possible to print out the attributes of pkgs from inside home.nix ? I'd just like _a_ way to see jre8 somewhere
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<rycee>
LnL: Right, I don't think it will have any problems with that. The only thing it does is to look at the two directories and figures out which files are in one but not the other. So there is nothing special about it w.r.t. the directories being part of consecutive generations.
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<rycee>
LnL: Any particular problem you would expect?
<LnL>
hmm, thought I ran into an issue like that wen trying to generalise the etc activation
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<LnL>
maybe it was something else
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nix] peti opened pull request #1595: docker: ensure that the installation works for users other than 'root' (master...master) https://git.io/vdupd
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<wilornel>
how did you know about jre8 ?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vduhe
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master a8f2ad6 Benjamin Staffin: kubecfg: init at 0.5.0
<srhb>
This is odd. I added leaveDotGit to fetchgit and it didn't seem to change the input hash.
<rycee>
wilornel: If you want all attributes then you could put a `traceShowVal (attrNames pkgs)` somewhere?
<rycee>
nix-repl> pkgs = import <nixpkgs> {}
<rycee>
nix-repl> pkgs.lib.filter (n: n == "jre8") (pkgs.lib.attrNames pkgs)
<rycee>
[ "jre8" ]
<srhb>
Oh, I suppose it has to be non-deterministic.
<srhb>
Yikes.
<rycee>
LnL: Alright. Yeah, it is certainly a bit fiddly. And the code should be able to determine whether a users has switched out the link with their own file.
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<wilornel>
I can't --show-trace when using HM
<rycee>
LnL: The Home Manager code does it slightly differently as well. From my understanding of the setup-etc.pl script it will keep the /etc/.clean file between invocations and I can imagine that it makes it a bit trickier. Home Manager will look directly at the files in the generation we're switching away from.
<rycee>
LnL: (of course, if that generation were to be GCd then we're screwed :-) )
<rycee>
wilornel: If you use `home-manager -v` then `--show-trace` will be added to the nix-env command.
<hyper_ch>
tilpner: still here?
<wilornel>
alright, so I was able to do `home.file.".config/nixpkgs/foo.log".text = pkgs.lib.attrNamesToStr pkgs;`
<wilornel>
and find jre8 in there!
<rycee>
LnL: Actually, I don't know if managing /etc/.clean makes it trickier. Seems about the same. I should have said that it makes it different from Home Manager's method :-)
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<rycee>
wilornel: Good job! :-)
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<LnL>
rycee: I might have another go at it then, I would like to add support for using a custom prefix for activation so I can test activation in a nix build
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 9 new commits to master: https://git.io/vduh5
<rycee>
LnL: Sounds cool. Feel free to ping me if you want feedback :-)
<rycee>
Now have to cook dinner.
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<wilornel>
can I get home-manager to git clone a project to a certain directory? :o
<srhb>
wilornel: Presumably you have access to fetchgit and friends?
<srhb>
As in regular nix.
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<wilornel>
hmmm I guess I do! I'm on NixOs. You think I could use fetchgit in home.nix ?
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<srhb>
wilornel: Why not? It's just a nix function. :)
<srhb>
wilornel: It puts whatever you cloned in the nix store, and then presumably you can use home manager to put it where you like.
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<srhb>
I may be mistaken about home manager though, since I don't know it, but I would be surprised if it were arbitrarily restricted like that.
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<Yarny>
Building without binary cache seems hard, I'm using the use-binary-caches=false option, but it still tries to connect to cache.nixos.org.
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<Yarny>
musteresel: you're suffering from the same problem? where are you located? I'm in south germany (provider=Vodafone).
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<srhb>
Yarny: I think you want --option build-use-substitutes false
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<hoodoo_>
Hi, anyone has experience with packaging python libs?
<srhb>
Yarny: from man nix.conf: If set to true (default), Nix will use binary substitutes if available. This option can be disabled to force building from source.
<GiGa>
srhb, so I'm hoping I can set rev= v${version}
<srhb>
GiGa: You can.
<GiGa>
srhb, ah good, I'm on the right track then :)
<GiGa>
Might give that a go later then
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<GiGa>
The current derivation pulls from Sourceforge, hopefully I can just change src to look at Github
<srhb>
Good place to start :)
<GiGa>
I've only worked on the JetBrains updates before, so I'm sure I'll be back later to ask questions :)
<wilornel>
Docker has dockerfiles that do some setting up
<wilornel>
It seems like nix and home-manager can achieve the same thing
<srhb>
Since Nix can build docker images corresponding to dockerfiles and more, it can achieve the same and more at least. ;-)
<wilornel>
I just feel like dockerfiles are not needed when you have nix and home-manager
<wilornel>
nix and home-manager are more general and more flexible than dockerfiles, it seems to me
<srhb>
I agree.
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<wilornel>
I'll have to look into how that can be done. Let your dockerfile basically set up nix and home-manager, and let them handle the rest. (Then that could become a pattern and be better implemented inside docker? )
<srhb>
I don't know why you'd use Docker for any of that...
<srhb>
Then again, I don't understand why people use Docker ever. :-P
<wilornel>
Say you have a docker container and also some virtual machines and some physical machines. They can all be configured using the same tools: nix and home-manager
<srhb>
Sure, okay.
<wilornel>
yes, I don't use Docker but I might have to for work later.
<wilornel>
Do you see why people use VMs?
<srhb>
More or less. :-)
<hoodoo_>
shrb: I tried to unpack a tarball and run setup.py and it failed; I then cloned the repo and checked out a tag and it worked fine. I think I'll try to figure out the fetchfromgithub option.
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<srhb>
hoodoo_: How curious.
<wilornel>
Alright, then with Docker I think you get VM functionality at a smaller cost on your RAM and CPU usage, because your containers all use the same kernel
<srhb>
wilornel: Yeah, I manage about 40 unique vms and some 200 docker containers at work.
<wilornel>
Ah, so you see what the point is, right? How are the vms set up? Is it using Vagrant?
<srhb>
The reason that I'm disagreeing is that often, Docker is just a silly wrapper over some essentially static binary.
<srhb>
I'd much rather systemdify them in NixOS.
<srhb>
Alas, I'm not free to do so.
<srhb>
As in, the VM vs Docker is a false dichotomy.
<srhb>
Or even use nixos containers.
<srhb>
Much nicer.
<wilornel>
nixos containers? like nix-shell, you mean?
<srhb>
No, NixOS containers are something different entirely. Check them out in the manual. :-)
<srhb>
They're nice!
<gchristensen>
they're linux containers similar to what docker uses
<srhb>
Only you get much better Nix integration.
<hoodoo_>
Still doesn't build though.
<wilornel>
wow, so that's like home-manager! no?
<srhb>
wilornel: Not at all.
<infinisil>
and i think nixos-containers are as fast as a normal nixos
<wilornel>
I mean practically
<infinisil>
not sure about that though
<srhb>
wilornel: I'm not quite sure how you use home manager, but I think of it as "declaratively provisioning my homedir"
<wilornel>
"NixOS allows you to easily run other NixOS instances as containers. Containers are a light-weight approach to virtualisation that runs software in the container at the same speed as in the host system. NixOS containers share the Nix store of the host, making container creation very efficient"
<samueldr>
nixos containers are systemd nspawn based
<wilornel>
srhb: and declaratively provisioning my packages
<srhb>
wilornel: So as gchristensen implied, it's more like docker containers, only without the docker cruft... :)
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<srhb>
wilornel: Ah, yes, okay, I do that on the NixOS level mostly.
<srhb>
wilornel: So the more apt comparison would be "it's like NixOS"
<wilornel>
hahah!
<srhb>
wilornel: Because it's a NixOS running inside your NixOS (sort of!)
<infinisil>
not only sort of, it is!
<wilornel>
Alright, there are many ways to solve the same problem right now
<Yarny>
build-use-substitutes=false helped a lot (it's now building lots of packages, some are apparently failing, but it's still running). Strangely, it still downloaded some stuff from cache.nixos.org when "building Nix...", but that went fast.
<srhb>
wilornel: So in a nixos-container, you get to use things like services.postfix.enable = true; etc.
<srhb>
infinisil: Well, sort of, it's not running its own kernel ;-P
<LnL>
"containers" is an overloaded term, it's used for both the images and runtime
<infinisil>
hmm right
<LnL>
and the image part is useless with nix
<wilornel>
can I declare the services that I want running in home-manager?
<srhb>
i don't know.
<wilornel>
ah, gotta ask rycee
<srhb>
Perhaps it can do user level systemd stuff, not sure.
<wilornel>
that's something I was looking to do
<srhb>
But there's always NixOS. :-)
<infinisil>
yes you can do that
<infinisil>
i have a few services declared
<srhb>
The schism between user and system level has always been there in NixOS, and I'm not sure to what extent home-manager remedies it.
<srhb>
I wish it was all the same thing..
<symphorien>
wilornel: I believe that man home-configuration.nix contains the list of all existing options
<wilornel>
infinisil: Do you declare that they should be running and what ports they should be listening to?
<infinisil>
srhb: home-manager does this super well, it's pretty much a user-level nixos module system
<srhb>
infinisil: That's great to hear. project for tomorrow.
<srhb>
Or when i get too tired of trying to make this build work...
<infinisil>
wilornel: what ports they listen on depends on the program, and yes i declare what should be running
<wilornel>
ah! there is `systemd.user.services`
<wilornel>
infinisil: do you use systemd.user.services?
<infinisil>
srhb: What are you building?
<infinisil>
wilornel: Yes
<srhb>
infinisil: ceph. or failing to.
<srhb>
infinisil: I had it building in a nix-shell, but there's an impurity that I can't locate that's preventing nix-build from doing the same.
<srhb>
Also it wasn't complete, lots of wrapping of python cruft I haven't managed yet.
<wilornel>
thanks srhb , symphorien and rycee also
<srhb>
wilornel: Are you new to NixOS? Just curious :)
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<wilornel>
Yes!!
<wilornel>
it makes so much sense though!
<srhb>
OK, welcome then. :) Hope you enjoy it.
<wilornel>
I remember doing weird things in bash scripts to try to get things set up on my machines. Trying to get services running, trying to install pacages, trying to set up dotfiles. I've many times thought "I should not be reinventing the wheel here, because I think this issue is solved by something"
<wilornel>
but I was never able to find something proper
<wilornel>
It would be cool if you could also declaratively manage what files are present on multiple machines, and have them sync those together. I _think_ it might be possible using nixops, but I'm not sure
<srhb>
Can I reconstruct the output of git rev-parse HEAD and git describe from the output of fetchgit or fetchFromGitHub?
<srhb>
wilornel: You can do something like that with nixops for sure.
<srhb>
wilornel: the "syncing" is a bit iffy, but distributing is no problem.
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<srhb>
wilornel: I provision some google cloud thingies with nixops.
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<srhb>
I think it's a little flaky, but it still puts a NixOS config on the host, which is more or less all I need.
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<tilpner>
hyper_ch - Still having that problem?
<wilornel>
awesome!! I'll have to look into this when I have time. Thanks srhb . I'll get back to my game dev assignment, for which I made a VM with NixOS and installed Java 8 on with nix :)
<srhb>
wilornel: Have fun :)
<hyper_ch>
tilpner: posted you the iso.nix but didn't hear from you
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<srhb>
Can I fetch only meta information from git?
<srhb>
I suppose I could make a separate input...
<srhb>
Though, hm, that could change as well..
<srhb>
Oh, can I run ls-remote as a sort of input?
<fearlessKim[m]>
how do you do to have a configuration.nix slightly different depending on the machine ? do you do "nixos-rebuild --arg macbook=true" for instance ? or can nix detect it based on some hardware characteristic ?
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<hyper_ch>
tilpner: and no, not solved
<srhb>
fearlessKim[m]: I use multiple configuration.nix-subfiles and import based on hostname of the main one
<fearlessKim[m]>
shrb hostname is good criteria :) will do that
<samueldr>
srhb: I'm guessing that this means that your configuration.nix file would be ignored under git
<srhb>
samueldr: No?
<GiGa|Laptop>
Hmm, "nix-build -A keybase" gets me "error: cannot auto-call a function that has an argument without a default value (‘stdenv’)"
<samueldr>
where is your hostname set then?
<srhb>
samueldr: Oh, you mean the outer one.
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<tilpner>
hyper_ch - Try putting the contents of tx0.co/juCu into your iso.nix
<samueldr>
yeah, probably
<srhb>
samueldr: Yes, I symlink that in place.
<GiGa|Laptop>
ah, I was too far down the directory tree
<tilpner>
(Oops, missed a '=' after target)
<samueldr>
right
<srhb>
samueldr: Basically I have one per hostname, symlink eg. configuration-foohost.nix to configuration.nix, they all import common.nix, and some others.
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<samueldr>
I'll need to that, right now I'm not even tracking configuration.nix, which sets hostname, then includes common files and hardware specific files
<hyper_ch>
tilpner: that complains but le me see if I can fix that
<srhb>
samueldr: I'm sure there are many ways to do it, like so much in Nix. ^^;
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.09 260da8a Vladimír Čunát: icu: keep default version on 58...
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<samueldr>
I like your first commit ocharles
<gchristensen>
holy shit ocharles
<tilpner>
hyper_ch - Add the = after target. I commented out your plasma stuff and it's still building
<srhb>
ocharles: That's fantastic!
<ocharles>
samueldr: urgh, more things to maintain
<ocharles>
^_^
<hyper_ch>
tilpner: that was it
<hyper_ch>
thx
<gchristensen>
ocharles: "Evaluation successful" does it just eval, or build?
<ocharles>
it builds
<ocharles>
so that message isn't great
<gchristensen>
nice
<ocharles>
oh crap, there's a missing file that will stop anyone using this. better sort that
<gchristensen>
ocharles: shared to #nixos-dev, nice!
<hyper_ch>
tilpner: is there also a way to make the file executable? I'd also like to add a few shell scripts
<ocharles>
but basically, it runs a "jobs.nix" function against your ci.nix to identify the paths to derivations, then it does nix-build -A ... one by one on each attr path
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<hyper_ch>
(prefer having them in /root/ so that I can see them directly)
<tilpner>
hyper_ch - I don't think this worked...
<gchristensen>
ocharles: can you license it?
<ocharles>
that would be a great idea
<ocharles>
one sec
<tilpner>
hyper_ch - Currently it's put in /iso/root/.tmux.conf
<wilornel>
In micro-ci, `haskellPackages.callPackage ./default.nix {};` would take care of running the build cabal build? default.nix is a file which declares what commands the build need to run?
<srhb>
wilornel: Yes, default.nix is conventionally your main build definition.
<srhb>
wilornel: and yes, haskellPackages.callPackage is the haskell build helper.
<hyper_ch>
tilpner: it did build it :) didn't check where it was actually put
<ocharles>
gchristensen: it's BSD3 but I must have dropped the license file somewhere (you can see from default.nix/micro-ci.cabal)
<gchristensen>
cool :)
<hyper_ch>
ah, target should be /root/.tmux.conf
<srhb>
Oh, it uses dhall
<srhb>
I've been meaning to try that.
<tilpner>
hyper_ch - Oh, good, I was still building for /root/.tmux.conf
<hyper_ch>
tilpner: changed target to /root/.tmux.conf
<hyper_ch>
already built, testing it now
<tilpner>
Are you sure?
<tilpner>
It's still not there
<hyper_ch>
how do you know so quickly?
<tilpner>
I started building/booting before you said that, had the same idea to try it
<tilpner>
But it doesn't help, so...
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<Yarny>
There seems to be a problem with my (and musteresel's) ISP -- I just tried with the internet of my neighbor (O2) and nixos-rebuild works fast there, no timeouts etc. My internet (Vodafone) it still hardly connects to cache.nixos.org.
<srhb>
Yarny: Try tracerouting it?
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<srhb>
It would be glorious if they'd blocked cloudfront or something :-P
<Yarny>
Oh, I'll see how to do that (I'm not a network expert -- rarely used traceroute before)
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<srhb>
It won't tell you much except how far out on the web you can get.
<GiGa|Laptop>
Can anyone remind me how to get the sha256 for a fetchFromGitHub please?
<tilpner>
hyper_ch - Is it acceptable to sync your custom files to /root from boot.postBootCommands, or any required systemd service?
<srhb>
GiGa|Laptop: I usually just let it fail once and grab the sha from the error message, but there's nix-prefetch-git too
<Yarny>
Well, they're probably not blocking it, from time to time a connection goes through. and https://nixos.org loads nice now (had problems 6h ago, but not any problems since then)
<srhb>
Ah..
<gchristensen>
Yarny: ipv6?
<Yarny>
No, it's pure ip4 internet connection.
<tilpner>
hyper_ch - That would be safer than an activation script. isoImage.contents really seemed like the proper way to do this, but if you only want a few files in a specific location... there are unsafe ways to do that c.c
<Yarny>
Oh no! traceroute is not installed ... let's see if I can get it without cache.nixos.org...
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<GiGa|Laptop>
srhb, that's what I did. I'm now being stopped by "Gramps requires Python 3.2 or later"
<hyper_ch>
tilpner: if the can be auto-synced... without user having to do so.... becuase with the iso build system I already have a few uses in mind also for other people
<hyper_ch>
but I fail to see why I can't create a file in a given folder with a given content and given permissions
<srhb>
Yarny: tracepath is in iputils, should be a fast build
<hyper_ch>
with that activation things for the desktop files it also works creating /root/Desktop and put files there
<srhb>
Yarny: But since you can occasionally reach it, it might not be that interesting.
<GiGa|Laptop>
srhb, surely python is already on the system given nixos uses it?
<srhb>
GiGa|Laptop: There are many pythonses on NixOS, often :)
<GiGa|Laptop>
oh
<hyper_ch>
tilpner: I also just noticed, that in KDE it didn't use the locale I've given
<GiGa|Laptop>
I can set it to use python 3.6
<lluchs>
When building an application that uses pkg-config, do I have to set PKG_CONFIG_PATH manually for all dependencies?
<srhb>
GiGa|Laptop: I think you should prefer python3 (it will be an alias for the newest 3-version)
<tilpner>
hyper_ch - NixOS won't let you directly manage files outside of /etc because /etc is almost completely under NixOS control. Your home directory (/root) is not. It's a free-for-all and that makes it quite hard to manage
<tilpner>
hyper_ch - The updater would need to handle a few important edge-cases involving deletion of userfiles. What happens if the file we want to write already exists? What do we do when it's no longer declared by the config (do we delete it?)?
<srhb>
GiGa|Laptop: Usually you would alter top-level/all-packages.nix like you see in the definition of eg mwic
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<srhb>
GiGa|Laptop: Open the file and search for "mwic = callPackage"
<srhb>
GiGa|Laptop: In there, it feeds the argument pythonPackages to the mwic derivation, but overrides it with the value of python3Packages
<srhb>
GiGa|Laptop: So simply find "gramps = callPackage" and do the same thing :)
<GiGa|Laptop>
srhb, I'm starting to feel out of my depth
<tilpner>
hyper_ch - Okay, do you still have questions with the activation script?
<srhb>
GiGa|Laptop: I'll walk you through it. :)
<srhb>
At least, as far as I can.
<GiGa|Laptop>
shall we fork off to a separate chat?
<srhb>
Can do.
<Yarny>
Well, while traceroute might not be interesting, I just tried to installed it and ended up with a url that it still downloading ... While it does so, I opened the url also with aria2c, and (after 30 seconds, which is still too long), it successfully downloaded it. On the other hand, nix-build is still waiting for the url. I don't unterstand this at all. Why is cache.nixos.org taking so long to respond, and why does it seem to not resond
<Yarny>
Oh, in the meanwhile, it installed traceroute
<srhb>
It all screams networking issues, and I'm sadly not very strong at those. Can you consistently ping cache.nixos.org at least?
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<Yarny>
Yes, ping cache.nixos.org is reliable with times around 20--40 ms
<steveeJ_webchat>
how can one chroot into an offline nixos rootfs? stuff in /run isn't available
<hyper_ch>
tilpner: that doesn't work for non-desktop files.... so still need .tmux.conf to have in /root and also put some other scripts there.... question is still the same :(
<Yarny>
I just traceoute'd cache.nixos.org .. and trying to get some info on how to read the output. What was remarkable is the the command itself (traceroute cache.nixos.org) took about 10 or 20 seconds to complete.
<Yarny>
gchirstensen: one moment, looking into it
<tilpner>
hyper_ch - Activation scripts do work for any file. They can run anything, which makes them so dangerous. It's also easy to end up with an un-bootable with them
<tilpner>
(PM)
<hoodoo_>
OK I've built testinfra. Fetching from github didn't do so I made that damn sdist file and linked to it from the expression. Not purely functional and all but I have the library.
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<Yarny>
I'm not sure if I can get the script running, as it also wants to download some packages from cache.nixos.org ... with some luck, it will do so sooner or later
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<gchristensen>
ocharles: I'm compiling it now
<gchristensen>
well, github first :P
<ocharles>
cool, I think with the last few commits it should work in places other than my $HOME :)
<ocharles>
i'm going to be running out soon, but would be good to know if it works for others
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<gchristensen>
it at least starts
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<ocharles>
promising
<ocharles>
I mean it's haskell, it's type checked so you should be all set, right?
<Yarny>
gchristensen: OK, I executed the script. It did two things: 1) "ping -c1 d3m36hgdyp4koz.cloudfront.net" yielded "1 packets transmitted, 0 received" ; 2) "dig -4 identity.cloudfront.net" returned a html error page, error code 411, more text "A request of the requested method POST requires a valid Content-length."
<Yarny>
Should I be able to ping d3m36hgdyp4koz.cloudfront.net ?
<gchristensen>
yes
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<Yarny>
Does the script somehow interfere with network traffic? If I just do "ping d3m36hgdyp4koz.cloudfront.net" without the script around it, it works perfectly.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Mic92 closed pull request #29899: yabause: Qt4 -> Qt5, disable emu-compatibility.com in About menu (master...yabause/0.9.15) https://git.io/vdOZn
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<gchristensen>
it shouldn't, Yarny
<Yarny>
I have build-use-sandbox = true in my nix.conf, but it was my impression that nix-shell is not subject to the restrictions imposed by this setting...
<gchristensen>
ocharles: just making a service for it to try it out
<Yarny>
I can consistently reproduce it: If I call the script: 100% packet loss, if I invoke the same command by hand (copy-paste from terminal): 0% packet loss
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<bonk``>
is nixos more of a desktop distro or aimed more for servers?
<gchristensen>
both :)
<gchristensen>
Yarny: can you try running it again? it should paste to ix.io
<Yarny>
Yes, and I'm currently running it. I didn't see your message earlier. I just removed the nix-shell she-bang and replaced it with a /bin/sh, and installed all the binaries with nix-env. Now the script seems to do more...
<bonk``>
cool. now if only i could manage to get my laptops screen working again then i could try nixos. i upgraded the ram and now the screen doesnt work. im not good with hardware :p
<Acou_Bass>
ok guys an odd error here... not sure f nixos or the Pi its running on... but on every reboot it somehow makes a new mac address, which is making it impossible to set a static IP on my router for it 0,o
<hodapp>
you're running NixOS on a Pi?
<Acou_Bass>
imi using ethernet, and have set networking.interfaces.eth0.macAddress = "**"; and its still doing it Xd
<Acou_Bass>
hodapp: yeh a Pi 3
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<ocharles>
gchristensen: I have to run now, but if you hit any snags, please don't hesitate to ping me or (ideally) open an issue
<hodapp>
Acou_Bass: working well besides this?
<gchristensen>
MicroCI.hs:30:1: error:
<gchristensen>
Failed to load interface for ‘GitHub.Endpoints.Repos.Status’
<gchristensen>
ok ocharles :)
<Acou_Bass>
yes actually :D im only running it headless though so no opinions on gfx performance or anything
<gchristensen>
hmm my fault on that
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<Acou_Bass>
oh and the other snag ive hit is, wifi card doesnt work - but that maybe because im running kernel 4.9
<hodapp>
I have a Pi 2 that I run somethingbian on now but I wonder if it'll do NixOS well
<Acou_Bass>
but y'know nothing of value was lost, servers should get ethernet anyway :D
<hodapp>
sometimes servers need stuff to do when they're bored
<hodapp>
like sniff WiFi
<samueldr>
for the pi 3, I modesetting + vc4 works with linuxPackages_latest
<Acou_Bass>
linuxPackages_latest doesnt have a hydra binary though and i cant be arsed waiting all week for it to compile :P
<samueldr>
but, I did not try anything wireless yet
<Yarny>
Apparently curl establishes an SSL connection, so bytes seem to be able to travel in both directions, then the connection stalls, but i can't figure out from the result of the script what might be the cause.
<Acou_Bass>
well my interface doesnt even show so youre a step ahead of me :P
<Acou_Bass>
like i said i can live without wifi for now - if your hardware.stuff works then thats awesome but im far too lazy to build the kernel just for the wifi hehe :D
<samueldr>
the two properties will at leat populate the firmwares appropriately
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<samueldr>
if your kernel version has support for it, the interface should show up after a reboot
<eacameron>
What is the absolute easiest way to get Nix CI (presumably with Hydra)?
<samueldr>
gchristensen: sorry to single you out, but it looks like linuxPackages_latest.kernel.aarch64 fails with timeouts, lately, any way to report this properly?
<wilornel>
Alright, looking into fetchgit now
<Acou_Bass>
ill give it a try later :D appreciate the help!
<wilornel>
and then when it is evaluated, it creates a directory in the nix store, and the outPath of the derivation is the path to that clone?
<infinisil>
wilornel: in certain cases it can be automatically converted to a string (its output path), but if that doesn't work you need to use (pkgs.fetchgit { ... }).outPath to do it explicitly
<Yarny>
I produced another paste, where curl downloaded the file promptly: http://ix.io/AV0 , however, it's still not stable, it fails most of the times
<gchristensen>
Yarny: that paste looks just fine :/
<wilornel>
And that will take care of creating a directory in the nix store with that repository clone in there, right?
<wilornel>
infinisil: that's awesome!
<Yarny>
Yes, but the paste above shows the failure
<Yarny>
... this one [19:38] <Yarny> Pasted at: http://ix.io/AUY
<gchristensen>
Yarny: ouch :/
<gchristensen>
Yarny: I have ... no idea ... :/
<infinisil>
ah, it's /nix/store/<hash>-<name>-<rev>-src to be exact
<Yarny>
As I said, bytes seem to flow until ssl is established, then it suddenly stops
<eacameron>
gchristensen: Nice. :D Does forceSSL = true have a way to do HTTPS redirects from other hosts? Like https://site.com -> https://www.site.com.
<gchristensen>
eacameron: not sure!
<eacameron>
gchristensen: Obviously you'd need a way to specify which hosts those are.
<wilornel>
"fatal: could not read Password for 'https://kovek@bitbucket.org': No such device or address" because I have a password for bitbucket. can I have it request the password from my tty? Or I could copy my public key to bitbucket..
<infinisil>
hmmm, i'm not sure if that's possible
<infinisil>
i think there's privategit though, hold on
<gchristensen>
wilornel: it is tricky to have nix use authentication when fetching repos, usually I'd recommend either use a public repo or fetch it outside of nix
<gchristensen>
the privategit option is a bit worrisome to me
<infinisil>
fetchgitPrivate it's called
<wilornel>
why is it worrisome? What about if I put my publickey in my bitbucket account settings?
<Yarny>
Is there are way to "generalize" the problem? At the moment, it fails downloading a specific nix archive. If it also fails to download some non-nix-specific test-file, it would mean that cloudfront (or amazon? I don't really know how they are connected) is failing in general. OTOH, if only nix archives fail from cache.nixos.org, then cache.nixos.org seems to be broken in some way.
<infinisil>
not sure if it works though
<gchristensen>
wilornel: because fetchgitprivate effectively requires your ssh private keys to be world-readable
<infinisil>
ahh it should work yes, apparently it uses ssh-config-file in the NIX_PATH to determine what keys to use
<wilornel>
ah....
<infinisil>
support for private stuff is horrible in nix tbh
<wilornel>
hmmmm is it possible to have the ssh-agent somehow allow nix to solve the ssl challenge?
<wilornel>
user's ssh-agent
<gchristensen>
yes, but you have to make the ssh agent socket file readable by nixbld which means effectively world readable :(
<wilornel>
Oh! I think I have one. I'll have to find it. However, yubikeys work weirdly with VMs
<eacameron>
Is it possible for a module option's default to depend on the value of another module option?
<adisbladis>
wilornel: What do you mean? Why would a vm be any different?
<infinisil>
eacameron: sure
<wilornel>
adisbladis: because the guest machine needs access to the USB device, and you don't want the the host machine to be hijacking it
<wilornel>
and then you need to install the drivers for the yubikey
<eacameron>
infinisil: Do I need to do anything tricky? I have cfg = config.mymodule; and I just use default = cfg.othervalue?
<adisbladis>
wilornel: You could just use agent forwarding
<adisbladis>
And let your actual host worry about the signing ;)
<wilornel>
Yes, that's what I ended up doing last time
<infinisil>
eacameron: this should work yeah
<wilornel>
but then would nix be able to work with a forwarded agent?
<adisbladis>
wilornel: Why not? It's completely standard ssh agent stuff
<wilornel>
alright, cool!
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<gchristensen>
this seems janky
<gchristensen>
why not just fetch it outside of nix?
<wilornel>
I want to declaratively manage my installed packages, dotfiles, configurations and running services
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<wilornel>
and maybe in the future, my stored files as well
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<wilornel>
and I think those are all possible with nix and home-manager and nixops
<gchristensen>
I think you'd have a better time if you cloned manually once as part of the setup, but by all means :)
<wilornel>
yeah I was thinking of that but I'm already discovering nix and home-manager and it's part of something I'd like to do in the future so
<adisbladis>
gchristensen: That's what I'm doing :) Far less trouble and setup
<wilornel>
alright, I'll try to figure out what user is doing the cloning, then `su - that_user`, then `ssh-keygen` and post that publickey to my bitbucket account settings.
<wilornel>
how can I know what user is dong doing the cloning?
<wilornel>
since this is in a VM which onyl I use, it should be fine for now
<gchristensen>
it'll be a user in the group nixbld
<wilornel>
ah there are many
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<eacameron>
infinisil: Cool thanks.
<wilornel>
so I need to make some ssh files readable by a group
<gchristensen>
or just clone it by hand :)
<wilornel>
That should work, no? it's fine with me because nix is not malicious. I might be missing something in terms of security, right?
<wilornel>
yeah but then I'll have to clone it by hand every time I use a new machine
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<gchristensen>
aye
<gchristensen>
another option is you could make the repo public
<gchristensen>
but as it goes, you're looking at needing to setup a complicated SSH key thing every time you use a new machine
<adisbladis>
We have a pretty interesting solution at work where we use the phone as an internet connected smart card. That would be pretty handy for this kind of scenario.
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<ocharles>
gchristensen: ah, nice! I'll do a bit more work on this then announce it
<gchristensen>
cool
<gchristensen>
running it myself freaks me out, since anyone could submit a PR & build stuff :) but it looks awesome for private things
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<gchristensen>
such is the nature of CI of course
<infinisil>
that should be configurable right?
<gchristensen>
probably not for a 'micro'-ci :)
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<eacameron>
In writing a module, is it possible for the "config" portion to import another module?
<gchristensen>
what do you mean import? why would you? are you just trying to reference their values?
<eacameron>
I have a "module" of sorts that I want to *optionally* add depending on a config
<eacameron>
so I had imports = [ if cfg.thisthing then extramodule else {} ];
<gchristensen>
ah
<gchristensen>
sure that should work
<eacameron>
gchristensen: It says "imports" doesn't exist
<infinisil>
eacameron: Can you show your nix file?
<gchristensen>
hrm :/
<eacameron>
It's in a module with { options.myModule = {}; config = { imports = [...]; }; }
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<gchristensen>
I'd turn it in to a proper module and enable itbased on your module's config :)
<iqubic>
How do I change the size and look of my mouse cursor?
<eacameron>
gchristensen: Another way would be to *optionally* set some attrs in the config
<eacameron>
But I don't know how to do that.
<iqubic>
I wish I could make my cursor bigger and chose a different theme too.
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<eacameron>
infinisil: gchristensen: I think gchristensen's idea worked
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<eacameron>
gchristensen: I use my own nginx config because I need to redirect https hosts. But I'd rather not use my own eventually.
<infinisil>
can't you do that with the normal module?
<eacameron>
infinisil: Maybe you can; I've never seen the config for it. It would need to get ACME certs for multiple hosts and then set up redirects for all of them.
<eacameron>
infinisil: If that's your primary host then it works fine, but if you want that to redirect to without www, then you need a cert and redirect set up for it too
<eacameron>
I.e you need a server block that listens to 433 on that host too
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<infinisil>
have you tried the nginx module for that and it didn't work?
<eacameron>
infinisil: I've looked at the source a couple times and was convinced it wasn't set up
<eacameron>
But I could be wrong
<infinisil>
maybe, oh well, as long as it works for you :)
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] fread2281 opened pull request #30199: ffmpegthumbnailer: build with jpeg support (master...ffmpeg-jpeg) https://git.io/vdzLl
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<infinisil>
you could also contribute to the nixpkgs nginx module and edit it so it can do your usecase :D
<eacameron>
infinisil: Yeah yeah...I know. lol
<eacameron>
I get lost in that code tho
<infinisil>
maybe it needs some refactoring, some modules are rather big
<infinisil>
Oh my god, the ip of my digitalocean droplet apparently caused some youtube abuse before, because i can't use it to download stuff with youtube-dl
<eacameron>
oh dear
<infinisil>
I'm getting HTTP Error 429: Too Many Requests
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<iqubic>
infinisil: They just recycle the IPs when on person is done?
<infinisil>
i mean there aren't all that many ipv4 addresses.
<infinisil>
i also have an ipv6 address, which doesn't work either
<eacameron>
infinisil: Does DO give you an IPv6 addy?
<clever>
infinisil: ive got other weird problems, netflix only works over v4, v6 complains loudly
<infinisil>
eacameron: yes
<clever>
infinisil: and android gives no way to turn v6 off
<iqubic>
infinisil: when do you call the code in the .nix file?
<eacameron>
infinisil: Oh I didn't realize that
<infinisil>
iqubic: the pipes get written to here:https://github.com/Infinisil/home/blob/master/audio/mpdinfo.nix
<iqubic>
Cool.
<infinisil>
clever: Well, I'm just glad ipv6 support is coming, will take a while for everything to work though
<iqubic>
infinisil: When is that config actually written to file? How does that nix file integrate with the rest of configuration.nix? Or are you using home-manager?
<infinisil>
Hmm, now how do i unblock this ip, i could just write youtube support or something
<infinisil>
or change server ip somehow
<clever>
infinisil: the reason its broken, is because my isp doesnt offer v6
<clever>
infinisil: so i'm using a tunnel
<infinisil>
iqubic: This config is using home-manager
<clever>
infinisil: v4 says i'm in canada, v6 says i'm in america
<clever>
netflix knows one of them is a lie, and blocks everything
<infinisil>
iqubic: I'd write a config yourself from scratch and copy only the stuff you need from other users configs
<infinisil>
iqubic: it's in home-manager's master
<iqubic>
I will.
<iqubic>
I just realized that.
<iqubic>
So what I hear you telling me is that I just need to clone home-manager's master branch, and that should get me set-up and ready to go with home-manager?
<infinisil>
iqubic: Read home-manager's README
<iqubic>
Nope, looks a bit more involved than that.
<iqubic>
infinisil: I just did read the README
<iqubic>
I can't seem to make the symlink properly. ln: failed to create symbolic link '/home/avi/.config/nixpkgs/overlays/home-manager.nix': No such file or directory
<sphalerite>
(for getting the hash for a github repo)
<sphalerite>
(well actually just getting the whole expression for fetching it)
<iqubic>
Trying to run the nix-env command and I get this: error: getting status of ‘/home/avi/.config/nixpkgs/home-manager/overlay.nix’: No such file or directory (use ‘--show-trace’ to show detailed location information)
<Yarny>
I sent a mail about my problems with cache.nixos.org to the nix-devel mailing list (or google group ... I hope that works, I never used Google Groups before). I hope that's the right channel for this kind of thing.
<iqubic>
I hope that works. I have no idea how to use github's gist feauture
<jonathan_>
Stargate SG1 to watch
<iqubic>
*feature.
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<infinisil>
iqubic: you didn't put the home-manager repo there
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] bjornfor pushed 2 new commits to release-17.03: https://git.io/vdztb
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.03 65aed1d romildo: locate: fix creation of the parent directory of of locate database...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.03 0065ae2 romildo: locate: does not use localuser for mlocate...
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<iqubic>
No, I made a symlink.
<infinisil>
iqubic: Step 2 of the readme..
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<iqubic>
Yeah. I cloned it to my home directory instead. I feel stupid.
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<infinisil>
you can also just symlink it to ~/.config/nixpkgs/home-manager, that's what i did
<iqubic>
Well, that works.
<iqubic>
And there is no manual entry for home-manager on my syste,
<iqubic>
s/syste,/system/
<infinisil>
iqubic: have you installed home-manager?
<iqubic>
I have indeed.
<infinisil>
you may need to build your config once
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdzqU
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 5dc3b2f Vladimír Čunát: xf86-video-amdgpu: 1.3.0 -> 1.4.0
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<sphalerite>
iqubic: spamming your question isn't helpful
<sphalerite>
often people won't read it until several hours later
<iqubic>
nix-env -f '<nixpkgs>' -iA home-manager worked just fine.
<infinisil>
iqubic: Ah yeah, you need to enable the manual option
<iqubic>
How do I do that?
<eacameron>
I'm trying to set up mattermost and proxy it through nginx; apparently it sets up websockets as well and I'm probably not proxying them
<iqubic>
sphalerite: Thanks for the advice.
<eacameron>
Is it possible to proxy both http and ws to the same upstream?
<infinisil>
iqubic: manual.manpages.enable = true; in home.nix
<iqubic>
Where should home.nix live?
<iqubic>
In ~?
<infinisil>
iqubic: read the readme
<sphalerite>
iqubic: in any case, for the cursor setting — set the Xcursor.theme and Xcursor.size X resources to adjust it
<srhb>
Can I make a fetchgit checkout pure by doing some things to its .git repository and _then_ deleting it?
<sphalerite>
By putting them in ~/.Xresources for instancec
<iqubic>
sphalerite: Thank you.
<srhb>
Or can I get access to git directly and at some point "promise" that the remainder is pure?
<srhb>
I need unsafeUnutterableAccursedPerformGitMagic.
<sphalerite>
for instance mine looks like "Xcursor.theme: Breeze_Snow\nXcursor.size: 48" (where \n is an actual newline)
<gchristensen>
srhb: what do you want to do?
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<iqubic>
How do I get more themes to chose from?
<infinisil>
srhb: You could just use a normal fetchgit and modify it with some command, creating a new derivation from it
<srhb>
gchristensen: I want to extract the output og git rev-parse HEAD and git describe
<sphalerite>
srhb: or you can make a fixed-output derivation of your own
<infinisil>
srhb: runCommand should work
<srhb>
infinisil: Hm, yes..
<srhb>
sphalerite: Oh, I've never tried that. That should be interesting.
<atorres_>
Hello again! Can someone tell me how to add LaTeX packages to Nixpkgs?
<iqubic>
I want to edit the home.nix file in ~ and have the changes read by home-manager
<infinisil>
will link ~/home.nix to ~/.config/nixpkgs/home.nix
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<atorres_>
sphalerite: maybe updating it would be OK?
<sphalerite>
atorres_: yeah, going to try and see if that's not too complicated
<infinisil>
iqubic: but tbh, you could use google for this question
<iqubic>
infinisil: I ran "ln -s home.nix .config/nixpkgs/home.nix
<iqubic>
from my home dir. And that worked well.
<infinisil>
iqubic: um, are you sure? I don't think that should work
<infinisil>
that should create a recursive symlink from .config/nixpkgs/home.nix to itself
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<sphalerite>
atorres_: no luck so far, I don't know what my chances of getting this working are. I'll let you know if I do get anywhere, but I wouldn't count on it
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<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.03 111c132 Vladimír Čunát: icu: keep default version on 58...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.03 373119b Vladimír Čunát: firefox: revert the upgrade for now...
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<MichaelRaskin>
debootstrap
<betaboon>
hello #nixos. is the nixos-cache available? I'm experiencin problems
<tokudan[m]>
MichaelRaskin: to create the chroot yes, but how do i get that e.g. into a container?
<sphalerite>
moet: did you enable the module?
<sphalerite>
betaboon: idk myself, but some other people were having issues too
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<moet>
sphalerite: i tried `modprobe msr` and no longer have the first issue (described in the link above); now i'm reearching about the "unknown op" error
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vdzmj
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 547fba5 Piotr Bogdan: ruby_2_2: 2.2.7 -> 2.2.8...
<sphalerite>
although it doesn't look liek the nixos module loads any kernel modules
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] andir opened pull request #30203: dnstracer: init at 1.9 (master...add-dnstracer) https://git.io/vdzYJ
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<betaboon>
sphalerite: do you know who is in charge of it ?
<sphalerite>
moet: I'd probably add a systemd oneshot service to load the module on every boot. Not sure how correct that is though
<moet>
sphalerite: evidently the powertop program itself attempts to `modprobe msr` if it is not present
<moet>
but that doesn't work (as detailed in the thread) because the location of modprobe is hardcoded inside powertop
<moet>
i believe this was already fixed in 15.09, but i'm unsure how how to check
<sphalerite>
oh
<betaboon>
moet: you could deactivate the service, and run the binary that is supposed to load the kernel-module with strace
<moet>
and to answer your question, yes i have powerManagement.powertop.enable set to true in my configuration.nix
<sphalerite>
yeah no, the fix should definitely be in 17.09!
<moet>
betaboon: the binary (powertop) isn't in my path.. it's somewhere in the nix store.. how would i find it?
<betaboon>
moet: nix-shell -p powertop
<sphalerite>
moet: nix-shell -p powertop
<sphalerite>
aaah I was too slow
<sphalerite>
lol
<betaboon>
xD
<moet>
:)) nix-shell ftw
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 1 new commit to release-17.09: https://git.io/vdzYW
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.09 b639cc6 Piotr Bogdan: ruby_2_2: 2.2.7 -> 2.2.8...
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<moet>
ok, when i run powertop from nix-shell, it succeeds in loading the msr module itself
<sphalerite>
How do we deal with upstreams that don't host fixed snapshots of their software, instead updating the stuff which still lives at the same URL, but with mirror-friendly licencing? Do we have some sort of nixos snapshot mirror?
<betaboon>
moet: can you send the link describing your problem again? i don't have it in my history
<sphalerite>
moet: aah, in that case try adding systemd.services.powertop.path = [pkgs.util-linux];
<sphalerite>
err, kmod, not util-linux
<betaboon>
sphalerite: i think that shouldnt be required, i don't have that anywhere in my configs
<sphalerite>
betaboon: yours might not need to load msr?
<sphalerite>
or does it succeed at loading msr?
<betaboon>
sphalerite: that is correct. i need the applesmc module (dunno if that is required for powertop to work on my mbp2010).
<moet>
sphalerite: betaboon: i'm seeing some inconsistent behavior; previously `modprobe -r msr` followed by `systemctl restart powertop` would result in a one-shot `powertop --auto-tune` which would fail because `msr` wasn't loaded ..
<moet>
now that's "working"
<moet>
i'm going to reboot, test, and report here in a minute
<betaboon>
and i load with boot.kernelModules = [ "applesmc" ];
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<sphalerite>
huh, you need to explicitly load it?
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<sphalerite>
on my old macbook it would load it automatically
<betaboon>
sphalerite: I'm not sure if i have to. don't remember if i ever tried without
<sphalerite>
I don't know what was causing it to be loaded, but it was loaded
<sphalerite>
moet: but I love nix and nixpkgs and take any opportunity to make it better, especially if it's an easy one :p
<moet>
is nix part of your school stuff?
<sphalerite>
(and I'm hoping to work with nix once I graduate)
<sphalerite>
no
<moet>
where do you think you'll work with it? i work in software in america.. and the companies are fairly backward w.r.t. fp technologies
<sphalerite>
I'm currently in the UK (Glasgow) but planning to leave and go somewhere that's staying in the EU. Or maybe Switzerland. I gather there's a fair bit of nix stuff going on in Germany
<Mic92>
moet: phd student, not directly related to my research, but I use nix quite often there.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] romildo opened pull request #30206: Upd.mkvtoolnix (master...upd.mkvtoolnix) https://git.io/vdzsq
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<gchristensen>
moet: I've found it easy to sell Nix if you can show the business value and avoid "its functional" as a selling point
<moet>
gchristensen: yeah, i'm learning that "functional" is a dirty word is us software
<moet>
*in usa software companies
<gchristensen>
focusing on the value it brings is a better approach anyway
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<betaboon_>
moet: i can support gchristensens statement about the business-value argument
<moet>
true, i'm not versed in making arguments about what's valuable to a business. i studied engineering, heh
<gchristensen>
that'll come with practice, probably :P
<betaboon_>
a recent employer followed that advice. a previous one, due to its "enterprise"-character, didnt tho
<betaboon_>
moet: if you're an engineer you might be well practiced in the argument of "why this design decision is more reasonable than the other"
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<betaboon_>
gchristensen: do you know if the binary-cache is live and well ?
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<gchristensen>
seems it to me, betaboon_
<betaboon_>
is there a publically available status page for it anywhere ?
<gchristensen>
S3 (us-east-1) and CloudFront's status pages would do the trick :)
<LnL>
it's just s3 + cloudfront
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<ixxie>
gchristensen: I mentioned Nix on the work Linux channel, and since I am a mathematician by training some guy immediatly cornered is a "mathematician's dream distro"
<ixxie>
so yeah, I dig your point xD
<ixxie>
but I wasn't even selling it as functional
<ixxie>
the guy just googled it
<gchristensen>
oh hehe
<ixxie>
I have just been taking a hard look at NixOS marketing
<gchristensen>
well, gotta push on and ignore the accusations :)
<ixxie>
yeah
<gchristensen>
"accusations"
<ixxie>
I wanna learn some NixOps and show him better (his the Delivery lead so.... I wanna shock him with magic)
<gchristensen>
at first, at work I had to sell it as a build tool only, not a package managere
<gchristensen>
look at the business value of this build tool
<ixxie>
yeah
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<MichaelRaskin>
The industry that has a megabug a year says that looking towards an industry with a megabug in a few dozens years is a bad idea? Hm…
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdzsX
<ixxie>
I also think we need maybe to refresh the logo *a bit*; the more I look at the logo and branding the more I love the ideas, but they are also emphasize the purity of Nix so much
<sphalerite>
roast?
<sphalerite>
ixxie: No! We can't touch the lambda snowflake, it's too pretty!
<sphalerite>
(the new version that is)
<MichaelRaskin>
Beer brewing is marketing targeted towards the actual hands-on users, but they should be targeted by «undo your mistakes with less stress»
<ixxie>
sphalerite: I agree! the flake stays a flake, but it can be 'refreshed' with minor changes
<gchristensen>
Ventriloquist, Cuisinier, Steep
<MichaelRaskin>
Barista.
<gchristensen>
ooh good one
<sphalerite>
ixxie: like what?
<ixxie>
the flake is *brilliant* as a representation of Nix, but there are aspects of the overall design which make the whole of Nix feel a bit too clinical
<gchristensen>
ixxie: might be a good push to have that around for the Nix 1.12 release
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<gchristensen>
IMO the website needs to focus on solved problems instead of what it does now
<sphalerite>
espress
<ixxie>
if you go to our site its all white or light grey, and blue; the shade of blue is quite 90s in a way, and feels a bit cold (its a snowflake so yeah, it should be a bit cold, but the color could be a bit more fresh)
<sphalerite>
(coffee-related and it espresses the concept that packages are built from espressions!)
<ixxie>
you can also go a long way by, for example, tilting the flake - say - 5 degrees
<MichaelRaskin>
gif it!
<ixxie>
the whole design is so clean and straight it could use something to break it up a little
<gchristensen>
ixxie: someone was just in here asking why the nix logo was rotated between revisions, lol
<ixxie>
lol
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<ixxie>
tomorrow I will start playing around with the logo and show you folks what I mean
<MichaelRaskin>
Hm. An SVG animation that rotates really slowly.
<ixxie>
but in marketing speak, we need to start looking less Academicy and more Startupy
<MichaelRaskin>
Now _that_ will play some mind tricks.
<ixxie>
xD
<MichaelRaskin>
We need a fork that does that.
<sphalerite>
I do like the way the that mog put a hummingbird in the snowflake for the t-shirts
<gchristensen>
#nixos-marketing :)
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<ixxie>
and gchristensen - your shift of the copywriting towards more problem solving is inline with that
<MichaelRaskin>
Because «Academicy» also means «Plans to stay around for next ten years or so»
<gchristensen>
sphalerite: me too! and I like the 3d effect of it being in front / behind the flake
<ixxie>
MichaelRaskin: I don't mean to say we should lose all the character and completely reinvent the image, I am just saying a little shift
<sphalerite>
mokapot. Colour scheme is brown obviously. Packages are written as espressions.
<ixxie>
lol
<gchristensen>
omg sphalerite what are you doing
<sphalerite>
Although... the thing with the whole coffee stuff is… java
<ixxie>
sphalerite: so you would port Nix into the JVM?
<sphalerite>
yes for all the enterpriseyness
<MichaelRaskin>
Rare case where Java mention doesn't make me shudder.
<MichaelRaskin>
I mean, Nix has a similarity in goals.
<MichaelRaskin>
Java is about making sure a huge pain doesn't become an actual disaster.
<ixxie>
wouldn't it be more Scala compatible?
<MichaelRaskin>
Yeah, not too expressive.
<dustmote>
Why would nix want to look more startuppy?
<dustmote>
What's wrong with looking academiccy?
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<ixxie>
dustmote: I don't mean to make Nix itself look like a startup; I mean make it appeal more to industry
<gchristensen>
it doesn't sell itself well
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<ixxie>
yeah
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<ixxie>
because something as good as Nix should have much wider recognition
<dustmote>
Why is selling oneself something to strive for?
<MichaelRaskin>
Erm, are you new in the industry? There is a wide range of parameters where recognition is inversely correlated with quality…
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<ixxie>
Its true, that happens, but it doesn't have to happen
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<MichaelRaskin>
Given that it happens approximately always, apparently yes it has to happen.
<ixxie>
MichaelRaskin: why does that happen?
<ixxie>
what is the parameter range where it happens?
<dustmote>
So the idea is that we should try to make nixos' level of recognition rise to the level of its quality? (For some arguably dubious comparison of "recognition" and "quality"?)
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<ixxie>
No, the idea is to get NixOS used in a wider range of circumstances so we can get more diverse input into the project
<gchristensen>
1) I think dustmote is trolling, 2) disregard MichaelRaskin telling you it is impossible :)
<dustmote>
No, I'm not trolling
<ixxie>
and also more resources - because if some companies donate a juicy grant to the NixOS foundation could allow some people to work fulltime on Nix for a while
<ixxie>
I think MichaelRaskin has a point though; many communties get their values corrupted as they grow
<dustmote>
I just don't like what dale carnegie has done to culture
<ixxie>
they lose focus and shift to other interest
<moet>
^^ this
<moet>
i don't want nixos to experience a corruption of its values as it seeks to "sell itself better"
<ixxie>
thats the last thing I am advocating
<ixxie>
I am here because of the values of this community
<moet>
ixxie: i don't think you're advocating it
<gchristensen>
I didn't realize "doomed to obscurity forever" is a value of nixos
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<ixxie>
^^ that
<moet>
i'm not saying "doomed to obscurity for ever" should be a value
<ixxie>
there is something between "being a corporate sellout" and "being an artsy obscure hipster"
<gchristensen>
I didn't realize the current website and marketing materials were carefully engineered to keep out undesirables or push away growth
<moet>
but "selling yourself for the purpose of growth" has ... coopted ... the value system of my country
<moet>
so i'm a little skeptical is all
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<MichaelRaskin>
Well, if you want to name conflicting values, I would say that current Nix culture is «grok these three simple obvious concepts — simultaneously — then you will get rid of these problems»
<ixxie>
I don't follow MichaelRaskin
<gchristensen>
moet: I don't know what you mean by selling ourselves
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<MichaelRaskin>
We still assume people make an initial effort to understand some of the stuff.
<drakonis>
moet, i don't get it
<drakonis>
massive advances have been made in the computer industry through money
<moet>
uhh, i was on my phone (as dustmote) so i don't have the scrollback necessary to quote..
<gchristensen>
moet: explaining what pain nix makes go away in an attempt to have more people use it isn't selling ourselves
<gchristensen>
MichaelRaskin: oh got it
<MichaelRaskin>
Having smoother learning curve will require changing how we do complicated things, too, to avoid weird disconnects.
<sphalerite>
moet: also public logs are available, see topic :)
<MichaelRaskin>
And that means that hard parts will become somewhat harder for core developers.
<drakonis>
MichaelRaskin, no it wouldn't
<ixxie>
Let me put it this way - lets say the dark side of marketing is misrepresenting your values, in a way which deceives the end user and corrupts your community by shifting its values; the good side of marketing is accurately communicating your values - all of your values in a balanced way - in a way that maintains and even bolsters your community
<moet>
ixxie: i can get behind that
<ixxie>
and in terms of this framing, I think the issue gchristensen and I are having is that the values emphasized in the current marketing are more on the theoretical side, and not so much the practical side
<ixxie>
practical doesn't have to mean just business
<ixxie>
it can be also for normal home users or whatever
<MichaelRaskin>
As for me, I do have a feeling that sometimes a search for a compromise decision in Nix community ends up with an outcome that makes little sense (at least when considered on its own, and not in the context of history).
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<ixxie>
for example?
<gchristensen>
that seems probably true
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, nowadays I try not to keep track not to get disappointed too often.
<MichaelRaskin>
But look at our parallel builds.
<gchristensen>
oh?
<MichaelRaskin>
Let us do a quick summary of configuration of enableParallelBuilding. We have a list of known-good, but not really a list of known-bad
<MichaelRaskin>
To have parallel builds you need them enabled both per-package and per-build-setup.
<MichaelRaskin>
And there is no sensible way to try to build everything not-known-bad with parallel building.
<MichaelRaskin>
You know, to find out where there are problems and where everything is fine.
<MichaelRaskin>
I guess I can stop at that for a brief introduction.
<gchristensen>
right, though something about it being difficult to know if it is truly known-good, and easy to be known-bad
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<Drakonis[m]>
to make nix popular, you have to fix the bad
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<MichaelRaskin>
Yes, so we do not have any incentive to store known-bad (as opposed to not committing switch to known good)
<gchristensen>
that hasn't stopped docker from being successful
<moet>
docker is a for-profit company.. i'm not sure it's comparable to nix
<MichaelRaskin>
Drakonis: known-bad is known-bad for parallel building, they can be just left alone in single-threaded build mode most of the time.
<infinisil>
Nixops question: how well does it work to manage my local machine and a server together with one nixops deployment? I sometimes change e.g. a port for a server, which i want to apply to server and my machine at the same time, nixops sounds like it could do that
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] layus opened pull request #30207: Warn about default ZNC mutability change (master...patch-2) https://git.io/vdzZL
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<Drakonis[m]>
docker just built a better mouse trap
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<Drakonis[m]>
it isnt the best container tool now
<gchristensen>
infinisil: I ... would not manage my laptop with nixops if i were you :)
<ixxie>
Can Nix replace Docker in most usecases?
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<Drakonis[m]>
no
<infinisil>
gchristensen: Got any better solution to what i want?
<MichaelRaskin>
The only use case for Docker is «I downloaded this stupid docker thing, how do I launch it»
<Drakonis[m]>
that would need some repositioning
<MichaelRaskin>
Nix doesn't replace that use case.
<Drakonis[m]>
those aren't quote symbols
<ixxie>
Drakonis[m]: ah yes, because NixOS has containers but Nix doesn't right?
<Drakonis[m]>
does nixos have containers?
<Drakonis[m]>
a system to handle it or does something else do it
<moet>
nix also solves different uses cases which docker doesn't address: nix solves system configuration (where puppet and chef are frequently used), and some deployment issues with nixops (where docker or puppet might be used), as well as some other issues..
<sphalerite>
infinisil: I'd just keep the settings that are shared between them in a separate nix expression that's imported both by your laptop config/home-manager config/whatever and by your server system config/nixops deployment stuff
<ixxie>
Never really tried them
<moet>
* err, terraform not puppet in the deployment statement
<infinisil>
sphalerite: That's what im doing now, but then i always need to sync the configs manually and run nixos-rebuild twice
<gchristensen>
IMO docker's power comes from the ecosystem of "schedulers" and, other tooling, and now the weakest part of docker is docker itself and the build process
<infinisil>
i could write a script for that, but that wouldn't be very nice
<ixxie>
gchristensen: you used docker in conjuction with Nix right?
<sphalerite>
infinisil: do you change the port that often? :p
<gchristensen>
ixxie: I have not
<infinisil>
sphalerite: Heh, nope, but there's also other stuff
<Drakonis[m]>
nixos doesn't know where it should go
<ixxie>
but I guess Nix doesn't have that kind of scheduling then? I mean the focus is clearly different
<infinisil>
I'm just thinking of it because I might need to change my servers ip
<infinisil>
and i want to change the domain too soon
<infinisil>
it would be more of a nice-to-have thing
<Drakonis[m]>
the focus remains on being a package manager
<gchristensen>
ixxie: the scheduling like "I have nginx:latest, now run like 50 of them" and it "just does it"
<MichaelRaskin>
speaking of growing the community: any ideas how to fix the Pull Request backlog handling without burning out everyone? I mean, any active recruiting would make the problem worse. Maybe unless you recruit some company that donates so much computing power to Hydra to build all PRs on top of all master commits quickly…
<sphalerite>
infinisil: well for the IP part... That's what DNS is for :p
<infinisil>
And with nixops it would be trivial to add a third machine, which i will do in the future
<infinisil>
sphalerite: NixOS is my DNS :P
<sphalerite>
infinisil: I see the "single source of truth" and the "keep config consistent" problems as orthogonal
<infinisil>
the server runs its own dns server
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<ixxie>
MichaelRaskin: make a buddy system when you can train new contributers from the existing pool of users
<infinisil>
sphalerite: Not sure i understand that
<ixxie>
MichaelRaskin: I would join, I wanna contribute but I am not quite good enough yet, or at least on the verge of being useful
<MichaelRaskin>
I wouldn't say that is The Problem.
<sphalerite>
If you're only working with 2 boxes I'd say "just do it manually", or " write an ad-hoc script for it", is the easiest way of keeping them consistent
<ixxie>
MichaelRaskin: I guess I misunderstood
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<infinisil>
meh..
<MichaelRaskin>
We do have quite a few people who already know their corner of interest, but don't have commit rights.
<ixxie>
ah right
<infinisil>
i what does nixops do when it can't connect to a machine?
<MichaelRaskin>
Then we have areas where it is unclear what to do about review because every change is large-impact and we need buy-in from the core-core-core people who don't have time to make any decision.
<sphalerite>
infinisil: a solution that works well for a large n is rarely what you want if you have a small n :p
<ixxie>
gchristensen: so you mean there is less finegrained control of the scheduling algorithms in Nix compared to Docker?
<gchristensen>
ixxie: docker's scheduling being multi-host and distributed and fault tolerant and magical
<Drakonis[m]>
hmm, a question, how do you make nix more valuable for enterprises seeing as money coming from them
<Drakonis[m]>
nix the entirety of the project
<gchristensen>
ixxie: and a "defined" interface where you can plug-and-play different schedulers to scale out and stay resilient
<gchristensen>
ixxie: like look at kubernetes and swarm and coreos' thing and ... and ... and ...
<ixxie>
gchristensen: I guess maybe Disnix is the closest thing we have to that sort of thing?
<infinisil>
sphalerite: as long as there aren't any problems, it would be a small improvement, and it would be really cool tbh, and i get to learn some nixops which might come in handy :D
<gchristensen>
ixxie: yeah, but if we focused on making good docker container citizens we'd make a lot of wins
<gchristensen>
ixxie: it makes choosing Nix low risk because the only thing changing is the build step, not anything after
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<ixxie>
gchristensen: right, I see what you mean; that makes sense
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<ixxie>
gchristensen: although wouldn't it be cool to be able to write complex scheduling and deployment schemas in Nix natively (say, 5-10 years down the line, since its tons of work)?
<gchristensen>
yeah, and that is a lot of what disnix is
<Drakonis[m]>
5 years is too long
* ixxie
has to finally get around to trying Disnix out
<gchristensen>
we're not ready to tackle that
<infinisil>
is disnix alive?
<gchristensen>
that is too big a project
<gchristensen>
infinisil: yeah, but very small user base
<Drakonis[m]>
too much can change. we might not even be there anymore
<infinisil>
As long as the earth keeps spinning I'm pretty sure nix will still exist in 5 years time
<Drakonis[m]>
nukes my man
<ixxie>
gchristensen: what do we need to do to be ready?
<gchristensen>
I don't think we should focus on solving that right now :P
<gchristensen>
focusing on what nix is already good at (building stuff) would be good
<Drakonis[m]>
solve usability first
<ixxie>
yeah makes sense
<gchristensen>
^
<gchristensen>
also the good project name is already taken (Hydra)
<Drakonis[m]>
borg vOv
<Drakonis[m]>
(google uses it)
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<dustmote>
borg is a really cool scheduler
<dustmote>
Is that what you meant when you were talking about disnix and docker "schedulers" ?
<MichaelRaskin>
If you keep the snowflake logo, you can call it Avalanche, I guess.
<gchristensen>
MichaelRaskin: no
<dustmote>
gchristensen:
<gchristensen>
dustmote: I was saying that was the biggest value in docker's ecosystem
<gchristensen>
erm, s/ MichaelRaskin / dustmote
<dustmote>
Ah..
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<Drakonis[m]>
kubernetes is the do over
<ixxie>
dustmote: it was just my musing that it might one day do so
<ixxie>
dustmote: but gchristensen just argued pretty well that it shouldn't really be a goal in the near future
<dustmote>
Ah.. given the foundation of nix/nixos i can see how it would be feasible a few years off
<gchristensen>
then we can
<gchristensen>
if we focus on being good at building stuff existing schedulers can run, we can leap-frog other tools and kick butt at what we're good at and not have to sell a whole k8s replacement at the same time
<infinisil>
!m gchristensen
<[0__0]>
You're doing good work, gchristensen!
<dustmote>
Yeah, makes sense
<ixxie>
but I like gchristensen's idea of integrating Nix with an existing container systems
<drakonis>
other things you have to solve
<drakonis>
make yourself better than ansible
<drakonis>
better than the deployment tools
<grahamc>
Ouch
<drakonis>
and don't tell me that writing the system on a file is enough
<drakonis>
it is limited to what's available in the repos
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<betaboon>
just an update on my cache.nixos.org issues from earlier. they seem to be resolved
<infinisil>
drakonis: what do you mean by writing the system on a file is not enough?
<drakonis>
i said on the following message
<drakonis>
you only have access to what's in the repos
<drakonis>
you can't do something off the beaten path
<betaboon>
might be related to cloudflare, as they currently list "PHL - Philadelphia, PA, United States -> Re-rerouted"
<infinisil>
drakonis: Wait you're talking about nixos? Because if so, you can override pretty much any nixos option
<infinisil>
And import any file from outside the nixpkgs repo
<MichaelRaskin>
Actually, NixOS is not too spin-offable in that sense.
<drakonis>
its not that simple
<drakonis>
because its a complex web of hot shit stacked up for almost a decade
<drakonis>
for half a decade
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<infinisil>
well that's just what people want, it doesn't make sense to package stuff almost nobody uses, and nobody wouldn't do it in the first place
<drakonis>
see, now that's the problem
<drakonis>
doing things off the beaten path
<betaboon>
i easily maintain custom services and packages in seperate repos. i now do all my regular work with nixos. including my production server deployments. its a breeze
<infinisil>
drakonis: That's how everything works though? That's not nixos specific
<dustmote>
Every distro is a complex web of stuff, nixos has the advantage of being configured entirely using largely one paradigm
<dustmote>
betaboon: send me a link to your blogpost explaining how that works for you :P pls
<MichaelRaskin>
Actually, packaging for Nixpkgs is easy enough that in case we fix the workflow suddenly packaging stuff without many users makes sense.
<drakonis>
i found his git repo
<drakonis>
the magic of using your irc name as your github name
<dustmote>
Yey
<infinisil>
MichaelRaskin: Another problem with having only very few users is also that it probably doesn't get maintained
<drakonis>
erlang spent almost a year unmaintained
<drakonis>
which sucks
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<infinisil>
there should be some "updating taskforce" of a few people that go through all of nixpkgs to update lesser-used packages
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<drakonis>
there's a thing that does package update scouting
<drakonis>
uhhh
<drakonis>
fedora uses it
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<MichaelRaskin>
We have multiple such things applied to Nixpkgs…
<MichaelRaskin>
I mean, there is no sustainable way to merge updates when they are brought and proposed as PRs
<drakonis>
taskotron or openQA i dunno
<betaboon>
when i have my local setups (currently in an iteration of refactorings) cleaned up. i will put it up to github. dunno when i have that done tho
<MichaelRaskin>
Sustainable for Nixpkgs in terms of not burning out and not causing drama
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<drakonis>
i'm looking at them and they can mostly do ansible style deployments, but they're way more complex than necessary
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<betaboon>
drakonis: I am at no means an experienced nixos user. i took it up around 10 month ago. and just recently (as i ditched my old job) got more into it
<betaboon>
therefore i have to do a round of refactoring after i have achieved a new goal i set for myself
<betaboon>
but i do admit, that the user exposed interface packaging and enabling-as-a-service could eventually be reduced to a minimum. when all those pyp2nix, node2nix and the like become more mature and generic.
<drakonis>
that's a thing guix managed to improve
<drakonis>
the extra tooling to deal with third party got integrated
<drakonis>
that's the part that sucks the most, as third party packages go unmaintained for long spans of time
<betaboon>
i have no experience with guix. but back when i did my research on guix vs nixos i decided on nixos as it seemed to bring me to production faster due to the bigger userbase (which is an assumption which i don't have any hard data on ;) )
<drakonis>
ha
<drakonis>
guix is also gnu nix i guess
<drakonis>
which comes with all the downsides of a gnu variant (like GNU ALL THE TIME)
<infinisil>
what are these downsides?
<betaboon>
let's see how it plays out on the nixos guix from. i am fully prepared to migrate to whatever comes along. it has always been like that with OS and it will always be like that
<drakonis>
basically, they don't have packages considered insufficiently free
<drakonis>
they offer libre linux instead of vanilla
<tilpner>
I heard someone say guix can use nixpkgs too
<drakonis>
which means extremely limited hardware support unless you write a expression for vanilla
<infinisil>
so e.g. no steam, no jdk?
<drakonis>
yes
<drakonis>
^
<tilpner>
If that is true, they would have all our unfree stuff too
<drakonis>
you can use it, but the devs absolutely dislike that notion
<betaboon>
I'm not much for dogma. free as in freedom implies the right to disobey. any system that tries to prevent that, is not a place i feel at home.
<drakonis>
^ that's pretty much how i feel
<infinisil>
well said
<drakonis>
its horribly ironic, all this talk about freedom, but it has to be the way they want
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<drakonis>
if you ask on irc, the devs will refuse to help
<infinisil>
huhh?
<infinisil>
because..?
<betaboon>
to each their own. all these things are tools. you don't fight about a hammer do you? no use for flamewars.
<drakonis>
because uhhh... freedom?
<drakonis>
aye
<drakonis>
flame wars aren't helping
<drakonis>
now back to the topic about setting things up
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<drakonis>
the other pain point is dealing with software that sets things up on root
<dustmote>
:)
<infinisil>
ayye to home-manager
<drakonis>
boy, these are common.
<drakonis>
at least have something like overlayfs for this kind of situation
<drakonis>
when you need to rapidly modify something that's in root
<infinisil>
wait you mean software that doesn't accept not being groot?
<drakonis>
i am root
<drakonis>
yes
<drakonis>
puns for days
<infinisil>
:P
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<infinisil>
I've never heard of software requiring root
<drakonis>
i mean
<drakonis>
root as in /
<infinisil>
ah
<drakonis>
not root user, damn terminology
<betaboon>
we should sponsor both home-manager and nixup for eg summer-of-code. speed up evolution of those. to see how it plays out and integrate the best combination of those results
<moet>
is a system-level directory something that i can configure powertop to have in its environment?
<betaboon>
i wonder if something like SmPL/coccinelle (works with C only) is applicable to nix. but I'm not into that language-kinda-stuff
<drakonis>
nixos actually, since nix doesn't freeze root dir
<ekleog>
drakonis: please to put a positive comment on RFC 12 (like “when is this landing” or something similar), I don't really know how to push it forward more :) (I have a working implementation of almost-the-text-of-the-RFC -- actually, of the text of the RFC before it underwent some slight modifications --, so implementation shouldn't be too slow to come :))
<drakonis>
haha, i'll look at it
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<ekleog>
<gchristensen> anyone have PRs they'd like merged? <-- Yes :D https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/12 (I don't really know what's been holding it up, if you do please tell me so I can fix it!)
<betaboon>
someone should setup a tshirt-print store for nix-rfcs "Your RFC wants YOU. RFC#12 4prez"
<moet>
but i don't know what directory would be appropriate for powertop's calibration data
<drakonis>
that's nice.
<gchristensen>
moet: /var/lib/powertop?
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<ekleog>
gchristensen: Yeah I guess you can't, but I don't know who really thinks he can, as things like the encryption RFC is just as stuck as the VM one :/
<ekleog>
(still, hope was a great thing ^^)
<tokudan[m]>
looks like ocamlPackages.csv is broken, the source tarball disappeared :(
<neonfuz>
so I got a new wifi usb for my computer
<gchristensen>
ekleog: I mean I literally can't, I don't have permissions on that repo
<moet>
gchristensen: how do i tell nix to take care of the directory as part of that package? `postInstall="mkdir /var/lib/powertop"` seems like it would leave loose ends around
<ekleog>
oh, I thought the nixos team was allowed to merge on this repo ^^ well, thanks anyway :)
<infinisil>
or via a vm yeah, but i mostly just test it with my system
<moet>
i have 1gb of ram XO
<moet>
no vm for me
<ekleog>
true, for such a low-breakage-probability change testing with the system works
<infinisil>
1billion bytes of RAM? That ought to be enough for everyone!
<moet>
yeah, but not enough for firefox and a simululation of, you know, another machine
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<ekleog>
hmm, the vm doesn't have to include all of x11 for testing, so could very well be really low-ram :) then, for something like what you're trying, switching to your local nixpkgs is enough :)
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<infinisil>
ah, but development is usually done on master
<infinisil>
oh but that shouldn't matter since you're just adding a service
<ekleog>
well, not really master, on a branch forked from a not-too-old unstable
<ekleog>
otherwise you get to rebuild the world
<infinisil>
yeah
<ekleog>
I personally develop from the unstable I'm running :)
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<moet>
ah, that sounds like an important detail
<moet>
and given the name, it sounds like i'd be better off testing in a low-memory vm
<infinisil>
moet: you mean "unstable"?
<disasm>
moet: usually shortly after a release, there isn't a whole lot of changes and you can get away with PR'ing to master from branching off of the latest release, but the further you get from the release, the higher the chance of merge conflicts to master.