gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-dev to: NixOS Development (#nixos for questions) | NixOS 19.09 is released! https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixos-19-09-release/4306 | https://hydra.nixos.org/jobset/nixos/trunk-combined https://channels.nix.gsc.io/graph.html | https://r13y.com | 19.09 RMs: disasm, sphalerite; 20.03: worldofpeace, disasm | https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-dev
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<ryantm> infinisil: You can feel free to close r-ryantm PRs but it will reopen them (maybe with an even newer version)
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<makefu> r-ryantm already performs a lot of tests for potential reviewers to check. maybe the policy could be that PRs are merged if the package contains tests and all dependencies still build or if there no other packages having it as dependency in first place. I know there were (and still are) a lot of discussions about automatic or bot-assisted merging and i have high hopes for
<{^_^}> rfcs#50 (by FRidh, 21 weeks ago, open): [RFC 0050] Merge bot for maintainers
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<Taneb> Having tried signing in to the NixOS Hydra for the first time (with my Google account), I have way more roles than I think I ought to have
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<pie_[bnc]> could someone reopen https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/63489#issuecomment-574888040 IDK if peter is on irc
<Profpatsch> pie_[bnc]: done
<niksnut> Taneb: you may be misled by the web interface, it shows all possible roles but they're probably not selected
<pie_[bnc]> Profpatsch: thx
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<Taneb> niksnut: that might be the case, yes
<Taneb> I do see buttons for, e.g., deleting projects, but I haven't tried clicking them
<Taneb> OK, that's a relief, I tried restarting a job (as the most harmless thing I shouldn't be able to do) and it gave me an error so I mustn't have those permissions
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<jtojnar> Is there a way to reset password on Hydra?
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<niksnut> iirc we used to have a password reset feature
<gchristensen> I don't know of one ...
<niksnut> src/lib/Hydra/Controller/User.pm:sub reset_password :Chained('user') :PathPart('reset-password') :Args(0) {
<niksnut> jtojnar: however aren't you using a google account?
<niksnut> oh, of course this also cannot work because our hydra cannot send email
<niksnut> we can reset passwords from the command line
<gchristensen> speaking of which niksnut, a lot of maintainers would really like it if hydra sent them emails about failures
<qyliss> ++
<jtojnar> niksnut yeah, registered using GAccount but it no longer works for me
<jtojnar> so I would like to switch to password auth
<infinisil> +1
<gchristensen> I don't think you can really switch
<infinisil> Delete user and recreate with password auth?
<gchristensen> yeah, but also eelco and I probably don't want to be in the business of managing user accounts :P
<gchristensen> maybe it would work if hydra had a registration page
<infinisil> Having to run google js just for hydra is kind of nasty
<clever> gchristensen: https://hydra.angeldsis.com/build/98737 pkgs.ntp doesnt appear to be reproducible
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<infinisil> Reviewing completely random PR's has been very nice so far
<gchristensen> some gems in there
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<Synthetica> Is that the new policy?
<gchristensen> hm?
<Synthetica> Reviewing in a random order
<infinisil> Synthetica: Oh no I'm just doing this for myself
<infinisil> It's much nicer imo because this way PRs don't get lost, all of them have an equivalent chance of being looked at, instead of preferring more active/more recent ones
<Taneb> hub pr list | shuf | head -n1 | sed 's/#\([0-9]*\)/\1/' - | xargs hub pr show
<infinisil> Yeah, or with the script I made which is about 6 times faster than hub :)
<infinisil> `script > prs` then `firefox $(cat prs | shuf | head -1)` is what I do, only rerunning the firefox command for one session
<Taneb> No doubt ;)
<Taneb> This is the first time I've tried using Hub, it does seem fairly slow for this
<infinisil> Yeah, took about 70 seconds for listing PRs for me
<infinisil> Oh whoops, I just ran the script again, this time with it automatically opening the links in firefox
<infinisil> Turns out the breaking didn't work though, now I have like every PR opened in firefox..
<Taneb> Whoops
<Taneb> There's only 1680 (assuming you only opened open PRs), not too bad
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<infinisil> After some panicking i was fortunately able to stop it by using a getty terminal
<infinisil> And killing firefox and restarting it made it forget all those tabs :)
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<infinisil> Hm, should we be a bit more liberal with pushing to people's PR branches?
<infinisil> Many PR's don't need many changes. I could just do them myself and merge them instead of having to comment and wait for the authors response
<qyliss> I think that sounds good
<qyliss> You could also at that point just do it yourself and push straight to master
<qyliss> And then close the PR
<qyliss> If you're going to merge straight away anyway there's no point pushing the their branch first.
<infinisil> ofborg's checks would still be helpful
<qyliss> Yeah that's true, although you can run those locally.
<infinisil> The different platform builds are most valuable i think
<gchristensen> (though hopefully the checks will one day it will become mandatory)
<gchristensen> (adjust that sentence in your mind until it parses)
<qyliss> Would that mean everything would have to go through a PR? I'm not sure I like the sound of that.
<gchristensen> it would yes
<gchristensen> and, I know, it would upset some people
<infinisil> On that note I'll ping ma27[m], since he seems to have just pushed a new nixos module to master directly: https://git.io/JvTkz
<LnL> there's no problem with that IMHO as long as is there's tooling to not make that extra overhead
<gchristensen> yeah
<LnL> in it's current form you have to wait for the checks to complete
<LnL> and even then strictly speaking the check is probably outdated by the time you go back to merge
<infinisil> Not sure what you're getting at. Any checks any better than none
<gchristensen> +1
<gchristensen> never will I ever go b ack to ye olde bad days when we didn't have the checks
<infinisil> And I don't trust anybody, not even myself, to always run all relevant checks manually before pushing something
<worldofpeace> "Many PR's don't need many changes. I could just do them myself and merge them instead of having to comment and wait for the authors response" infinisil I ask people when contributing to please allow maintainer pushes because it just makes everyone's like easier if I can fixup with ofborg checks on the PR. Else I have to do exactly what qyliss mentioned, which is close and push directly to master.
<worldofpeace> infinisil++
<{^_^}> infinisil's karma got increased to 190
<LnL> sure but playing a human poller to merge somthing isn't very productive
<gchristensen> agreed
<gchristensen> it would be nice to be able to use GitHub's "Approve" feature with a `@ofborg merge` command, and auto-merge if evaluations pass
<worldofpeace> Famous last words are three maintainer approvals and they don't even mention what they did to come to the conclusion of approval.
<gchristensen> there is an RFC for this
<infinisil> https://github.com/sindresorhus/refined-github has a feature to merge once checks succeed
<gchristensen> infinisil++
<{^_^}> infinisil's karma got increased to 191
<LnL> gchristensen: exactly and at that point the outdated eval isn't a problem anymore either
<gchristensen> well it might still be out-dated, but much less likely :P
<worldofpeace> we should really get back to working on that rfc 🤣
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<gchristensen> one of the things that scares me about ofborg being able to merge is it is the risk of privilege escalation and determining if the approvals are really authorized to issue that command
<gchristensen> and the ability to definitively prevent somebody from merging. right now that is easy, revoke their group membership
<LnL> perhaps it's possible to avoid moving authentication
<gchristensen> hmm like maybe users who use /merge must authenticate to ofborg, and ofborg becomes that user to execute the merge?
<LnL> yep
<gchristensen> that is a nice idea
<LnL> assuming github has something to not provide full access to your account that could be a great alternative
<gchristensen> yeah
<gchristensen> it would be important for my own comfort to only be able to be granted access the nixpkgs repository, and then only a very small subset of permissions
<LnL> don't see anything parameterized
<LnL> you have deploy keys, but that's based on a repository not users
<gchristensen> how about the new fancier permission model of GitHub Apps?
<LnL> not sure, was looking at oauth scopes
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<infinisil> Oh I think I can optimize my random PR script: First get the number of total PR's, then make an array from 1 to <total>, shuffle it, query the state of the first 100 in a single query to find the first open PR among them
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<gchristensen> I wonder how small we could get shellcheck to be
<infinisil> After doing some calculations with above idea for random PR's, it should on average only take 2.11 requests :D
<worldofpeace> gchristensen: ain't shellcheck already a static haskell executable?
<gchristensen> whoa it is, worldofpeace, I thought it had a massively huge closure
<gchristensen> path-info -Sh -> /nix/store/rghd7cs6c05m9nyvxd4hck2c1d8xx63s-ShellCheck-0.7.0 38.5M
<worldofpeace> yep, it's perfectly bite sized
<gchristensen> I was wishing we used it more after seeing https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/77826
<{^_^}> #77826 (by mmahut, 6 hours ago, open): FIDO2 luks support
<worldofpeace> it would be cool if it was a check we could run
<gchristensen> I'm thinking a build-time validation
<globin> gchristensen: then we need ghc etc in stdenv :/
<gchristensen> not a check on everything
<gchristensen> but shellcheck for like, activation scrips
<gchristensen> they're complicated, long, and one of the few places errors are dangerous
<globin> +1
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<gchristensen> it does mean ghc needs to build for the channels to move forward, but nixpkgs-unstable already does with the cachix client
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<globin> for a channel bump it should build anyway
<gchristensen> yeah
<samueldr> aarch64 may suffer
<gchristensen> pretty much puts shellcheck on every person's machine, which may rustle feathers
<gchristensen> ohh right samueldr
<samueldr> not sure if ghc was more successful lately though
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<gchristensen> ${if !stdenv.isx86 then "${pkgs.shellcheck...# only x86 gets nice safety things things" else ""}
<samueldr> not fond of the precedent this sets
<gchristensen> me either
<samueldr> even though it _is_ tiered one level lower
<gchristensen> it was a joke
<gchristensen> I would want every build to benefit
<samueldr> I'm curious as to what doesn't port cleanly to a systemd-based stage-1 in what we have
<gchristensen> yeaoh
<samueldr> I know code and behaviour can't match 1:1, but the end result will mostly be the same for 99% cases I believe
<gchristensen> yeah
<gchristensen> I *like* our activation script for early boot because of how simple they are, and it feels cool to be able to see so plainly how a Linux system starts
<gchristensen> but I'm not married to it and that isn't a reason to keep it exactly
<samueldr> is the stage-1 mess an activation script?
<gchristensen> erm right sorry
<gchristensen> my brain is completely mush. the last 7 days have been really intense for me.
<samueldr> :)
<samueldr> one of the main issue is how it doesn't deal with dependencies in an appropriate manner, only through ordering, and waiting
<gchristensen> yea
<gchristensen> I'm happy as long as I can keep booting from an empty / :)
<samueldr> in my experiment with mobile nixos, where there's less ordering and waiting, it made stage-1 quicker to boot (that wasn't a goal)
<gchristensen> yup
<samueldr> but experiment with non-systemd, non-shell stage-1 init
<gchristensen> people who say systemd is slow ... is ... well, when you have a precise DAG you can sort of start up maximally fast
<samueldr> even without an actual DAG working!
<gchristensen> :P
<samueldr> I kinda sort the stuff, but rely more on looping on all things and checking if the dependencies are fulfilled
<samueldr> (because I don't know how to implement that right now and didn't care)
<samueldr> punted to a future improvement, as more importantly it needed to prove it can boot
<gchristensen> nice
<gchristensen> yeah
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<infinisil> Improved version of random pr script: https://paste.infinisil.com/lErUkENNIE
<infinisil> Takes about 2 seconds to run, no prefetching of all PRs needed
<infinisil> (it is probabilistic though, so if you're *really* unlucky it can take a lot longer :))
<infinisil> ,random-pr = Script to open a random open PR: https://paste.infinisil.com/eTjLirlSno
<{^_^}> random-pr defined
<qyliss> Now add it to the bot
<infinisil> I probably should yeah..
<infinisil> Question: #70234 adds a package that hasn't seen a new commit in 3 years, but it's probably still functional and the author of the PR uses it themselves
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/70234 (by woffs, 15 weeks ago, open): zfsnap2: init at 2.0.0-beta3
<qyliss> I say yes
<qyliss> But IIRC my view on this issue was somewhat extreme
<infinisil> I guess it's alright as long as that person is maintaining the package within nixpkgs
<gchristensen> love that master has been red for 3 years
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<infinisil> Related: What path should packages use for zfs?
<infinisil> Just ${pkgs.zfs}/bin/zfs won't always work because on NixOS it's /run/booted-system/sw/bin/zfs that you should use
<gchristensen> their kernel's, heh.
<infinisil> But the latter doesn't work on non-NixOS
<infinisil> I guess the only other option is the one in $PATH
<qyliss> PATH sounds good
<qyliss> I think it's unlikely you wouldn't have one
<gchristensen> it is very likely they shoudln't run a nixpkgs zfs package
<infinisil> Oh, but also: The NixOS binary on PATH is not the one from /run/booted-system
<gchristensen> a bit dangerous
<clever> that reminds me, debian patched pam, to support include statements in pam config files (because they lack something like nix with string interpolation)
<clever> as a result, any binary from nix, that reads pam config files, fails hard
<gchristensen> :|
<clever> the nix copy of sudo, fails, even when ran from root
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<infinisil> Idea: RFC's get really long discussions quickly, which lessens participation. So how about we close and reopen long RFCs as a new PR?
<infinisil> This also indicates that it went through a couple revisions since it first started
<qyliss> This would make it extremely difficult for people who do want to follow the conversation
<qyliss> EXTREMELY difficult
<qyliss> And on the flipside, rather than unsubscribing once from an RFC I'm not interested in, I'd have to unsubscribe from it once a month or something?
<infinisil> Is it worse than GitHub's awful comment collapsing?
<infinisil> This shouldn't happen more than once or so
<qyliss> I think that's a sign that GitHub is a terrible RFC platform.
<infinisil> We can't change that unfortunately
<qyliss> Why not?
<globin> that's why I advocated and still do for shepherd leaders to semi-regularly summarise the discussion!
<qyliss> What would happen to ongoing discussions?
<infinisil> This approach has also been used here: https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs/pull/4329
<{^_^}> zfsonlinux/zfs#4329 (by tcaputi, 3 years ago, closed): ZFS Encryption
<globin> yeah and I don't like it because one has to read two PRs..
<infinisil> Two PR's is better than having to click 10 times on "expand comments" imo
<infinisil> It's like the second generation of the RFC too
<worldofpeace> infinisil: on that particular PR you mentioned about inclusion, I like to factor in some popularity metrics (😃) https://repology.org/project/zfsnap/versions
<qyliss> I would like to point out that none of these are problems with a mailing list.
<globin> one PR with regular summaries of open discussion points and decisions reached is better in my opinion
<qyliss> GitHub is a fundamentally terrible platform for long-form discussion.
<qyliss> It just doesn't work well, whatever you do.
<infinisil> globin: You mean a separate PR?
<globin> no, comments every ~2 weeks if there has been discussion just providing the above
<infinisil> Hm yeah I don't think that helps with the github awfulness
<samueldr> maybe it's time we report the bug at github, about the way comments are unusable
<globin> why, that removes the necessity of reading the collapsed comments?
<worldofpeace> qyliss: I agree with you. I've had a real pain trying to figure out what I've been doing on github in the past months because I can't track down what I was doing/talking about.
<globin> worldofpeace: the beta notification page improves that
<qyliss> globin: infinisil is talking about when GitHub says "Show 100 more comments", not when inline comments are collapsed due to an outdated diff
<infinisil> globin: So you have a new comment every 2 weeks summarizing the discussion of the last 2 weeks, then another 2 weeks of discussion happens, and now the summary comment is buried up there too, so I need to uncolapse comments to find it
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<worldofpeace> globin: what is with everything being a beta feature on github nowadays 🤣
<globin> infinisil: no the summary of all previous talking points
<globin> infinisil: so that just reading that is enough to join the discussion
<infinisil> Oh, yeah I don't think anybody could summarize 200 comments into a single one, every two weeks, without it becoming really big or inaccurate
<infinisil> I mean if anybody can do that then great, but I don't feel like I could do it
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<qyliss> Another thing GitHub lacks is proper threaded discussion, so you end up reading three conversations all spliced together in one long thread.
<infinisil> qyliss: I wish infinite nesting becomes the standard
<infinisil> I guess mailing lists have that
<qyliss> Indeed they do
<infinisil> And reddit does as well
<worldofpeace> Really, a platform that hides your discussion more and more as you have it is truely counterintuitive. infinisil I wouldn't volunteer to do that too.
<globin> infinisil: I tried doing that on RFC 42 and it didin't seem to be too bad: https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/42#issuecomment-508167136
<qyliss> I truly think RFCs should be on a mailing list. Maybe GitHub has some advantages when it comes to code, but the focus on an RFC isn't about code, it's about the discussion, and GitHub is truly terrible about that.
<infinisil> globin: Ah yeah, that's pretty good, but as you can see it got rather long and presumably took a while to write, I don't think that's realistic on a regular basis
<infinisil> qyliss: I wouldn't mind a mailing list with a nice frontend
<qyliss> If people set the subject of their mail to what their point is, you even get a summary of discussion points in the thread overview.
<qyliss> infinisil: what do you think of hyperkitty? have you seen it?
<qyliss> I think it's great.
<infinisil> I think you might have shown it to me before
<infinisil> Ah you're using it for spectrum, it's in my browser history
<worldofpeace> I wonder how ironic it would be for an RFC on GitHub to not use GitHub for RFCs would be
<qyliss> haha
<worldofpeace> qyliss: do you have link for an example for that? (you using hyperkitty)
<qyliss> worldofpeace: here's my (rather inactive) one: https://spectrum-os.org/lists/hyperkitty/
<qyliss> A better example would be Fedora's (although it's a bit outdated): https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/
<infinisil> An outdated version of hyperkitty you mean?
<qyliss> Yeah.
<worldofpeace> oh yeah I've used/browsed these sites before. Yeah, that's actually pretty nice
<infinisil> qyliss: Do more recent versions support collapsing of threads?
<worldofpeace> Though, I still think you'll get a lot of people saying it would be best if we could use GitHub for this also (for rfcs optimally)
<danderson> is there some kind of expedited PR processing for changes that are just "bump version (and some hashes)" ? If not, could there be?
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<infinisil> worldofpeace: I'm hoping that everybody participating in RFCs has now realized GitHub is awful for that
<danderson> Such changes seem to be a big chunk of PRs by volume, and aside from "yup CI passes"... is there much value in detailed examination?
<worldofpeace> infinisil: 😹
<qyliss> danderson: I merged about 20 of those today
<qyliss> the expedited processing is that people like me looking for easy reviews can pick out trivial upgrades based on the PR titles
<qyliss> worldofpeace: sure, it would be nice if GitHub worked and we could use it. But it doesn't.
<worldofpeace> qyliss: this is of interest https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/50
<{^_^}> rfcs#50 (by FRidh, 21 weeks ago, open): [RFC 0050] Merge bot for maintainers
<worldofpeace> oop
<worldofpeace> danderson: https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/50
<{^_^}> rfcs#50 (by FRidh, 21 weeks ago, open): [RFC 0050] Merge bot for maintainers
<danderson> qyliss: right, I was thinking more automated. Like, any maintainer (even without commit access) approves + CI passes -> merge
<danderson> ... like that RFC :)
<worldofpeace> double oof actually
<worldofpeace> Because my comments that I found to be prominent are collapsed in that RFC !
<qyliss> amazing
<qyliss> Hyperkitty is very easy to run on NixOS (once my PR is merged); just sayin' :P
<worldofpeace> qyliss: reading through this is already better for me https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/, because it's discussion focused interface
<worldofpeace> qyliss: which pr ref?
<qyliss> #77444
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/77444 (by alyssais, 6 days ago, open): nixos/mailman: lots of big improvements
<qyliss> Currently blocked on #77686
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/77686 (by alyssais, 2 days ago, open): Revert "Re-revert "awscli: Get rid of runtime -dev dependencies""
<worldofpeace> ah wait your blocked on stuff
<worldofpeace> lol
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<qyliss> Not really sure what to do about that, since it feels weird to revert somebody's commit without them responding first
<gchristensen> not a problem, go for it
<worldofpeace> Yep same
<qyliss> And the other PR I'm blocked on is #75782, which looks abandoned
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/75782 (by peti, 4 weeks ago, open): Update mailman, postorius, and hyperkitty to their respective latest versions
<worldofpeace> I've noticed nixpkgs, dun nobody care that much
<gchristensen> a lot of people care a lot :P but the volume is too high
<worldofpeace> qyliss: I was going to suggest you can re-PR it
<qyliss> Yeah I guess I will.
<worldofpeace> gchristensen: care -> minds
<gchristensen> if it causes problems -> try to contact, if they don't reply fast enough (depends on how serious the problem is) -> revert anyway
<qyliss> lol thanks globin
<worldofpeace> I don't think peti has been in contact with you about stuff anyways qyliss ?
<qyliss> nope
<qyliss> Once the main PR is ready I'm just going to merge it
<qyliss> Can't be waiting forever
<globin> qyliss: :)
<infinisil> The mailman module could also use some rfcs#42
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/42 (by Infinisil, 42 weeks ago, open): [RFC 0042] NixOS settings options
<qyliss> infinisil: it has them in my PR, doesn't it?
<globin> the mailman module in its current state shouldn't have been merged imho
<qyliss> I agree
<infinisil> qyliss: mailmanCfg is still just a string
<qyliss> But it also suffered from lack of review
<globin> but I was too slow and it had made it into the release
<qyliss> infinisil: oh right, but there's webSettings now
<qyliss> that's what I was thinking of
<globin> qyliss: yeah but mailman3 is really hard to review+package
<qyliss> That's true
<globin> qyliss: see my hacky approach
<qyliss> Although I'm pretty happy with the job I've done
<globin> haven't had enough time to look at it thoroughly but looked fine at first glance
<infinisil> qyliss: Ah I see, yeah that part is a bit better, though a fully specified type is still lacking and assigning defaults in the config section
<infinisil> qyliss: (instead of doing // cfg.webSettings)
<qyliss> infinisil: please comment on the PR so I don't forget?
<infinisil> Can do
<qyliss> globin: but yeah, I was surprised by the state of the prior mailman module
<infinisil> qyliss: Oh also it introduces extraConfig, which is bad for backwards compatibility with an eventual settings option
<globin> infinisil: it is hard to do without because you essentially do just write python code
<infinisil> Oh it's python..
<qyliss> No it's not
<qyliss> The file infinisil is talking about is an ini file
<globin> oh sry
<qyliss> The Python one I solved by having a stub Python file that imports JSON
<qyliss> And then generating JSON from the settings option
<qyliss> Works great.
<globin> qyliss: ah is mailman-web a working upstream base config now? that makes stuff a lot easier
<qyliss> Pretty much yeah
<qyliss> I do still change a few things
<globin> I had to manually merge hyperkitty and postorius configs when I was working on it and essentially created my own mailman-web..
<infinisil> qyliss: left a quick review
<qyliss> cheers
<qyliss> infinisil: wait the standard option is called "settings"?
<qyliss> Everywhere I've seen in Nixpkgs it's called "config"
<infinisil> Yeah it was decided settings is better because it doesn't conflict with `config` for modules, and there's enough `config` settings already which mean other things
<globin> qyliss: you might want to steal https://github.com/mayflower/nixexprs/blob/master/modules/mailman3.nix#L436-L452 to not spam check mailman mails again after appending the mailing list footer
* qyliss takes note to rename config options in #77450
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/77450 (by alyssais, 6 days ago, open): nixos/public-inbox: init
<qyliss> globin: I'd like to leave that as a future enhancement I think
<qyliss> Apart from anything else, my mailing lists don't have footers
<globin> qyliss: we've had quite some problems with that at mayflower
<qyliss> Oh really? Does it actually catch it as spam?
<qyliss> I also don't understand postfix enough to review it, so wouldn't really be comfortable including in my PR
<globin> sometimes for very short e-mails like notifications when someone is ill
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<globin> qyliss: I think I'd be fine with merging it as it is when staging is merged