<yorick>
Synthetica: the main thing stopping it is the logs I think
<yorick>
Synthetica: so help wanted to write a better result aggregation thing so people can see why their packages can't auto-update
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<infinisil>
niksnut: I believe it's possible to make it fast and almost fully backwards compatible with the current module system
<infinisil>
Which is probably pretty important, because otherwise we need to rewrite many many things
<infinisil>
aanderse: Oh i forgot, these ones don't work by default under submodules, because they set `warnings = ...` which is usually not defined under submodules
<aanderse>
infinisil: yeah in the past i've just left the options and then added warnings to the main module
<aanderse>
but i thought hey maybe i should ask someone if there is a better way to do that before i comment
<infinisil>
aanderse: You can add such a warnings option and then propagate all warnings to the outside
<infinisil>
Grep for `warnings =`, some modules do that
<aanderse>
infinisil: thanks, will grep
<infinisil>
Ideall warnings and assertions would be integrated into the module system such that it's always an option
<aanderse>
yeah that would be better
<infinisil>
Hm actually that might be pretty simple, maybe i'll take a stab at it
<aanderse>
infinisil++
<{^_^}>
infinisil's karma got increased to 187
<infinisil>
But also, i think warnings at least warnings should be silenceable, which might be nice to implement too, hmmyy
<infinisil>
hmm..
<ryantm>
Synthetica: I just started getting it onto the nix-community build server https://github.com/nix-community/infra/pull/6 and the next step will be cleaning that up some and fully automating it.
<Synthetica>
ryantm: I was just wondering, since the current setup seemed suboptimal
<ryantm>
Synthetica: Like how it runs in batches/spurts?
<Synthetica>
ryantm: Yeah
<ryantm>
I'd like it to run more continuously, also, I'd like some features of it to be exposed as command line tools for people making manual PRs. Those are my two top priorities with the project now.
<arcnmx>
which currently evaluates on nixos-unstable but not -small... I'm not sure what changed or how should I be doing this instead.
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<arcnmx>
oh sorry that's unnecessarily complicated, seems like the issue is just that (import <nixpkgs> { crossSystem = { system = builtins.currentSystem; useLLVM = true; }; }).stdenv won't work at all
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<drakonis>
should assumptions be made when initially populating the tags? ie: packages built using python's build system naturally assumes it is a python package
<drakonis>
i wanted to initially take debtags as a inspiration, as it is sufficiently fine grained for a initial attempt
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<drakonis>
i'm going for a way to have additional package data, ie: find all packages that use ghc but aren't libraries, then get the overall metadata and its location in the tree
<pie_[bnc]>
i think i had some small ideas but forgot to update the issue and then forgot too :/
<pie_[bnc]>
basically thinking about all the random crap you want while using a package
<pie_[bnc]>
id end up researching how librarians do stuff i guess
<pie_[bnc]>
like, make sure informaiton links are discoverable in all directions
<drakonis>
first things tho
<drakonis>
if we do this, we're going to add a field for the cve name of the package
<pie_[bnc]>
oh i should read what you actually said in here
<drakonis>
i talked about a specific facet of what i want to do
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<drakonis>
there's more pieces like cve names, a set of package licenses rather than a single one, show the available features
<pie_[bnc]>
( theres a lot of ideas possible in the "tags" space, a separate repo for tags, confirmed / tentative tags, lazy trees for searching (probably inefficient because of needing to process the whole set? / or precomputatiob) )
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<pie_[bnc]>
im not doing anything because i dont hav ethe capacity but ive wanted treating metadata as more first-class to be a thing for a while :P
<drakonis>
i'd like to have metadata for defining package variants
<pie_[bnc]>
i usually crosslink stuff i see on github but apparently i didnt in that issue, so either i didnt find anything or i forgot
<drakonis>
for packages that are effectively "if you have this enabled, i'll build this extra binary"
<drakonis>
rather than treating variations as entirely separate packages
<pie_[bnc]>
sidenote; i figured the tag repo might want to be separate from nixpkgs since tags are probably going to have a lot of churn ((subtree or something?)
<drakonis>
yes
<drakonis>
it should be merged with nixpkgs every often though
<drakonis>
squashed even
<drakonis>
though that's why flakes exists now
<pie_[bnc]>
i think ill only get around to flakes if it gets mainlined
<drakonis>
tagging packages as "printer drivers" is also really good and ties up into other potential projects
<pie_[bnc]>
drakonis: if there isnt one yet, i at least like to - make a tracking issue for this metadata stuff and crosslink things
<drakonis>
its a big thing to be solved
<pie_[bnc]>
stuff is hard to find in the issue tracker sometimes
<drakonis>
the package plugin infrastructure would make use of that
<drakonis>
get rid of foot shooting
<drakonis>
this is a big undertaking
<drakonis>
how hard is it to write a nlnet proposal for this?
<pie_[bnc]>
i might be about to crash, irc is good but key stuff should either get mentioned in th eissue tracker or link irc logs - just so this stuff gets kept track of, i know i cant keep it in my head
<pie_[bnc]>
drakonis: does nlnet accept random nixkgs refactorings? :P
<drakonis>
they're accepting mobile-nixos and spectrumos, so yes
<gchristensen>
it might take such a project under the search and discovery open call
<pie_[bnc]>
drakonis: thats...differnt? :P
<drakonis>
its changes definitely run deep though
<drakonis>
they took ambrevar's project, which does things similarly to what i want
<pie_[bnc]>
this stuff sounds like it could be handled incrementally at least
<samueldr>
drakonis: quite reductive to say "they're accepting mobile nixos and spectrumos, so yes"
<drakonis>
things to be learned from them.
<drakonis>
its very reductive, yes.
<drakonis>
but both end goals are bigger than mine
<samueldr>
the grants are linked to specific greated goals
<samueldr>
two of then are "PET: Privacy Enhancing Technologies" and "Discovery: Search and Discovery"
<pie_[bnc]>
that guy is doing a lot of random guix stuff in that
<drakonis>
i dont mean disrespect with that
<pie_[bnc]>
also didnt know search and discovery was a thing
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<pie_[bnc]>
tfw guix gets a gui installer before we do :P
<gchristensen>
it would be cool if they got one!
<drakonis>
they already have one
<gchristensen>
nice
<drakonis>
objective 4 is to further enhance the experience
<pie_[bnc]>
oh
<gchristensen>
that is awesome
<pie_[bnc]>
hehe
<drakonis>
rather, they have a TUI right now, up next is doing GUI
<qyliss>
NLnet were strongly encouraging me to look at GUI installers
<qyliss>
fwiw
<drakonis>
nix definitely needs one
<gchristensen>
maybe we can borrow what they've learned and built and apply it to NixOS
<qyliss>
Person I spoke to offered to introduce me to the Calamares(?) developers
<pie_[bnc]>
not a huge difference imo
<pie_[bnc]>
i mean yeas, but no
<drakonis>
there's a lot to learn from them
<pie_[bnc]>
guix is the next big thing in a few years :P
<pie_[bnc]>
feels like they have velocity
<drakonis>
oh yes they do
<gchristensen>
yeah, it'd be cool to have some of what they learn and build applied back to nixos
<drakonis>
their implementation of home-manager is pretty interesting
<pie_[bnc]>
i just keep thinking where do they get their velocity
<drakonis>
guile
<pie_[bnc]>
is that really it?
<drakonis>
scheme, guile, knowing all the things that nix did wrong
<pie_[bnc]>
not sure how much we can do much about that
<drakonis>
guile is extremely hackable and easy to work with
<gchristensen>
that is not it :P
<drakonis>
also the people working on it are very dedicated
<gchristensen>
not just it*
<qyliss>
it's gotta be mailing lists :P
<gchristensen>
they're good at marketing, branding, and positioning themselves in interesting spots, too
<drakonis>
oh yes i was getting there
<gchristensen>
qyliss: you're right, it is probably the mailing list
<drakonis>
they're at fosdem right now
<pie_[bnc]>
khm
<samueldr>
I would be at fosdem, if it wasn't so far away
<qyliss>
I get the sense from afar that Guix is probably a pretty small core of dedicated people
<drakonis>
despite being gnu affiliated, it does the pragmatic route and just disallows nonfree code in the main repository
<samueldr>
pragmatic? isn't that idealistic?
<qyliss>
drakonis: as opposed to...?
<pie_[bnc]>
im not gonna derail on that
<samueldr>
>> pragmatic: dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations.
<samueldr>
(I'm not questioning, it's more about english as a second language user here)
<drakonis>
i'm also a english as second language user here
<drakonis>
they reached a middle ground
<drakonis>
debian has main, contrib and nonfree, the average gnu distro only has main
<drakonis>
guix has main and contrib
<samueldr>
pragmatic I think would be allowing unfree things because it's useful for some cases, like firmwares, but still marking them, like nixpkgs does, right?
<drakonis>
nonfree exists outside of official channels
<drakonis>
its easy to find but not endorsed, not unlike fedora and rpm fusion
<pie_[bnc]>
a tagging system makes me fantasize about stuff that goes on on sites like danbooru
<pie_[bnc]>
all the tags
<drakonis>
that's also me but no danbooru
<drakonis>
i'd probably just axe most of the existing metadata and do some wild goals
<pie_[bnc]>
low_quality_package needs_metadata split_stuff id
<pie_[bnc]>
idk
<drakonis>
also guix has declarative channels, its so sweet.
<drakonis>
things that should be learned from, grafting
<drakonis>
it allows making small changes to the store, so it allows avoiding mass rebuilds
<drakonis>
great for security updates
<gchristensen>
say more about what exactly it does and what you'd use it for?
<drakonis>
at least to prevent someone else from squatting on it?
<gchristensen>
I *think* someone friendly holds it. checkin.
<drakonis>
simpson: i've been relapsing into using nix over the years because nobody else in the traditional distros can provide what nix does, i might find some little issue with nix but i always come back.
<drakonis>
the community is great.
<simpson>
Sure, good times.
<drakonis>
there's been some, hm, "personal growth", so i've been trying to be more committed to things
<drakonis>
gchristensen: what gave it away?
<drakonis>
was it all the uncomfortable shuffling around namedropping guix?
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