gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<gchristensen> ok I think I found out how to say what I want.
jasongrossman has joined #nixos-chat
kini has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
kini has joined #nixos-chat
<ldlework> Sekiro is awesome.
jtojnar has quit [Quit: jtojnar]
<infinisil> ldlework: Yeah have seen it a couple times already, looks very nice
<ldlework> i'm having a blast with it
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
endformationage has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.4]
jackdk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<joepie91> gchristensen: what specifically do you dislike about it? (maybe I can help think of some ways to reduce the issue...)
<joepie91> Ralith: fwiw, as a habitual long-form writer, I almost never set out to write a long-form thing (and whenever I do it invariably ends up stalling) - rather I just start writing, and I try to describe things accurately and completely, and then oops I have many pages worth of text
<joepie91> :P
<Ralith> I've noticed that happening in my technical communications lately
<Ralith> grumbling at a standards body and writing a blog post are still slightly different things though
<joepie91> sure, but only slightly :)
<joepie91> seriously though, I've found "just start writing and see what comes out, and whatever comes out comes out" to be the most productive approach for myself
<joepie91> I've produced much more writing through "lemme just jot this down quick" than through "okay I'm going to write a comprehensive thing now"
<joepie91> but the former usually results in the latter anyway, just because of the amount of information
Myhlamaeus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
noonien has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
drakonis has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
johanot has joined #nixos-chat
johanot has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
johanot has joined #nixos-chat
johanot has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.4]
Zer000 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Myrl-saki has joined #nixos-chat
makefu has joined #nixos-chat
eyJhb has joined #nixos-chat
<eyJhb> qyliss^work: Same question
<qyliss^work> I tried
<qyliss^work> But I was never able to get used to the keybindings
<qyliss^work> Kakoune's flipped model makes much more sense to me
<eyJhb> But isn't Kakoune a modal like editor like Vim?
<qyliss^work> Yes
<Myrl-saki> eyJhb: It's practically like Vim with an eternal visual mode, IIRC.
<qyliss^work> And multiple selections
<Myrl-saki> I wanted to try it, but I was too deep into Emacs at that point.
<qyliss^work> Myrl-saki: emacs tempts me occasionally
<qyliss^work> But it feels huge
<qyliss^work> I don't want my editor to implement a shell or a window manager
<Myrl-saki> Lmao
<qyliss^work> (That also applies to vim)
<Myrl-saki> I actually have exwm running right now.
<jasongrossman> I run a Linux kernel clone written in elisp.
<Myrl-saki> And I'm chatting through an Emacs's ansi-term.
<clever> the entire reason i usevim, is because thats the first editor i was shown, way back in 2004, when i was asking dumb questions in ##linux :P
<eyJhb> I am tempted to try Kakoune, but I love my vim too much. And that is it so widely used :D
<Myrl-saki> jasongrossman: Not sure if satire anymore.
__monty__ has joined #nixos-chat
<clever> and now its just muscle memory, and i cant switch
<qyliss^work> Kakoune integrates with your display manager or terminal multiplexer, rather than doing its own special thing
<qyliss^work> I think that's very important
<Myrl-saki> TBF, that's why I use Emacs.
<qyliss^work> Because otherwise the differences between the two systems would frustrate me endlessly
<Myrl-saki> Basically.
<jasongrossman> Myrl-saki: I was joking. I actually run stock Linux. On a hardware emulator written in elisp.
<Myrl-saki> If your text editor is your most important tool, why not make it your window manager, y'know?
<clever> Myrl-saki: after learning how to use tabs and panes in vim, i dont need multiple windows that much
<qyliss^work> Myrl-saki: I can see that
<qyliss^work> And that's why emacs appeals to me more than Vim, which seems to live in an awkward middle ground
<Myrl-saki> jasongrossman: I don't know anymore https://github.com/gongo/emacs-nes
<jasongrossman> Myrl-saki: Wow.
<qyliss^work> I've heard that emacs' architecture makes it very easy for extensions to conflict with each other and break things. Has that ever happened to you?
<Myrl-saki> Pretty much.
<jasongrossman> qyliss^work: It's true that there's not much isolation at an architectural level. But actually extensions tend to use their own state and not conflict that much.
<jasongrossman> And there's a very good package manager (which is surprising, now that I think about it, given the age of the thing).
<Myrl-saki> jasongrossman: straight?
<Myrl-saki> Or package.el?
<jasongrossman> Myrl-saki: I guess package.el. But probably the other bits and pieces too.
<clever> Myrl-saki: threads, enough said :P
<jasongrossman> Myrl-saki: And paradox.
<Myrl-saki> clever: SSHHH
<Myrl-saki> FWIW, Emacs now has support for async and concurrency.
<jasongrossman> Right. In the long run (if there is a long run) Emacs can get more and more concurrent.
<clever> Myrl-saki: threading!!!
<Myrl-saki> I guess the only way to have editors with "provably" non-conflicting plugins is to make the interconnect yourself.
<Taneb> Main reason I use neovim these days is because that was the text editor which I had to expend the least effort to get Haskell syntax highlighting working
<Myrl-saki> TMW I only used Haskell for window management and calculator.
<Myrl-saki> Now that I'm all-in on Emacs, I only use it as a calculator. And maybe not soon.
<Taneb> TMW?
<Myrl-saki> that moment when
<Taneb> Ah
<Myrl-saki> i'm an epic memester xd
<Myrl-saki> That... that was just a joke.
<Myrl-saki> Taneb: I used to only use Haskell. Now I don't really program that much, except for work.
<Myrl-saki> Everything else is done in Bash.
<clever> Myrl-saki: i still use a nodejs repl as my calculator, despite not using nodejs seriously for years
<Myrl-saki> clever: lmao
<jasongrossman> I still use Ruby, despite ditto. It makes sense to use an old familiar thing for your calculater.
<clever> back when i did run nodejs, i kept that repl open for constant debugging
<Taneb> I... learnt dc
<jasongrossman> Taneb: Good!
<clever> and then when i stopped using nodejs, i didnt close it
<clever> and then it was handy, so i kept leaving it open!
<__monty__> Any relation to bc?
<Myrl-saki> Old habits die hard
<jasongrossman> bc was originally implemented in dc
<Taneb> I think the GNU versions still share most of their source code
jtojnar has joined #nixos-chat
waleee has joined #nixos-chat
pie_ has joined #nixos-chat
<pie_> <infinisil> Notifies my via email
<pie_> <infinisil> Wait
<joepie91> PSA: https://twitter.com/Senficon/status/1110509970213294081 -- article 11/13 copyright reforms were just passed :/ (that's the upload filter BS)
<pie_> wait i thought we already passed the upload filter bs and now we wanted to revoke it or something?
<joepie91> no, it hadn't gone for final vote yet
<joepie91> this was the final vote
jasongrossman has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.1)]
jasongrossman has joined #nixos-chat
<pie_> doh
<makefu> joepie91: i just read the same news, a sad day for the internet
<joepie91> yep :/
<pie_> this is europe we're not supposed to do stupid shit like this
<joepie91> especially a sad day for grassroots efforts
<joepie91> pie_: oh, no, this was totally expected
<joepie91> copyright industry has had the EU by the balls for a long time
<joepie91> lobbying and all that
<joepie91> the EU only produces good laws so long as no companies are lobbying too hard
<joepie91> protections against lobbying are, uh, lacking to say the least, so the moment an industry shows serious interest in twisting the rules, things go bad fast
<pie_> :I
noonien has joined #nixos-chat
<gchristensen> is there a setting-up-wayland/sway-for-dummys?
<gchristensen> I was looking for a wiki thing, but no luck
<gchristensen> I plugged in my big monitor this morning and again found xrandr couldn't enable it, despite gently disabling it before unplugging it
<andi-> there was this sway module that someone linked on discourse
<qyliss^work> The only wayland setup I do is programs.sway.enable = true
<qyliss^work> Everything else seemed to just work IIRC
<gchristensen> omg this is so painless
<qyliss^work> lol
<gchristensen> how can it be that the displays just work properly
<simpson> Do you *really* want to know? The short answer is that everything's been reimplemented, the kernel drivers are actually pretty good, no network transparency means that everything's simpler.
<simpson> What saddens me is that, whatever setup you were using before, it *didn't* Just Work, which is a preventable shame on many machines.
<gchristensen> do you want to know the whole nightmare behind that? :)
<simpson> I mean, I could just guess that you were using the latest offering from GNOME or KDE~
<simpson> But yeah, I'm mildly interested to know how Xorg did not Just Work.
<gchristensen> (in a meeting)
<gchristensen> hrm. _some_ sway pain.
<pie_> but muh network transparency
<simpson> pie_: I have a demo that I give every year at Portland State for their incoming computer techs that includes running Firefox over the Internets. It's really not that bad; XRender adoption has improved quite a bit over the past decade IMO.
<pie_> huh
<pie_> wait im not sure what i thought by network transparency means what it means
<gchristensen> what do you think it means? :)
<pie_> that you can transparentlly do stuff over the network :P
<gchristensen> X11 is a networked protocol
<gchristensen> so yeah you can fully use X11 over the internet
endformationage has joined #nixos-chat
Jackneill has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Jackneill has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
<Taneb> gchristensen: what are the requirements for being added as someone whom OfBorg is aware of?
<gchristensen> you should have sent at least 2 (ish) PRs
<gchristensen> (for darwin access, the limit is much higher)
<Taneb> And then should I just open a PR on the OfBorg repo?)
<gchristensen> yep
<gchristensen> check out a recently merged extra-known-users PR
<jD91mZM2> I just got so fed up on having to rebuild rust packages without any cache in nixops that I made it build at runtime (on the server). Before you shout at me, I know this is bad but I have stayed up too long... twice... because of this :) Carnix didn't work either.
<Taneb> gchristensen: thanks
<gchristensen> oh wow o:)
<infinisil> jD91mZM2: Why did carnix not work?
<jD91mZM2> infinisil: Stable carnix complained about some unknown target (probably target_family as an issue suggests), unstable carnix complained about some non-utf8 in a stream. And then I also got some "unknown attribute 0.1.5" when not using `carnix build`, but rather `carnix generate-nix`
<jD91mZM2> Decided that I want to get something that always works, and not something that may sometimes break simply because the majority uses pure cargo.
<infinisil> There is a carnix issue tracker at https://nest.pijul.com/pmeunier/carnix:master/discussions
<jD91mZM2> Yes that's where the issue I talked about was
<Taneb> gchristensen: opened the PR but I've just realised I've messed up alphabetic order
<Taneb> Fixed it (hopefully)
<jD91mZM2> infinisil: I love carnix, I love the attempt at *properly* solving the problem that is registry cache. But until that works on the majority of crates and on all different channels (beta, nightly, etc), my small personal server will probably build stuff at runtime (but ofc it won't build if there are no changes anyway)
<gchristensen> carnix has been a very big pain for me and ofborg too
<infinisil> Hmm yeah, of course now would be the time carnix needs lots of love in order to solve such problems
<jD91mZM2> infinisil: I could only contribute if I had time :(
<gchristensen> since nix can parse toml files, maybe we could do a more naive, simpler option
<infinisil> Nix can parse anything if you want it to! Assuming you're a masochist
<jD91mZM2> gchristensen: TIL! That's really cool
<gchristensen> oy
<gchristensen> since nix has a builtin to parse toml files...
<infinisil> Um, is this just coincidence or.. https://lobste.rs/s/26xnzy/crate2nix_nix_build_file_generator_for
<infinisil> jD91mZM2: gchristensen: ^
<qyliss^work> Since when is there a TOML builtin? :o
<gchristensen> nice
<jD91mZM2> gchristensen: Oh, I thought you meant nixpkgs_mozilla's parseTOML file
<Taneb> qyliss^work: Nix 2.1 (last september)
<qyliss^work> wow nice
<jD91mZM2> Guess that's older than the builtin
<jD91mZM2> infinisil: ... .... ....... (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ you have got to be kidding me
<infinisil> xD
<infinisil> Wait since when do text modifiers work in this channel
<infinisil> > palette
<{^_^}> "blackbluecyangreenpurpleredwhiteyellow"
<gchristensen> this channel has never blocked colors
<infinisil> Ahh, must've misremembered then
joko has joined #nixos-chat
<joko> Hey, anyone actively using Ruby? I'm about to start a hackathon project in Ruby and I was wondering which gem to pick for doing HTTP(S) requests and most probably parsing them later on as JSON
<qyliss^work> I usually just use Net::HTTP, which is built in to Ruby
ar has joined #nixos-chat
<joko> I've just read this: https://twin.github.io/httprb-is-great/
drakonis has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
<qyliss^work> Depends what you're doing I guess, but I've always found that it's not worth it to add a dependency on a library when Net::HTTP gets the job done
<joko> qyliss^work: You have a point there
<qyliss^work> Are you writing a little script, or something bigger?
<qyliss^work> If it's just a little script, use open-uri. But in bigger programs it can introduce security issues because it monkey-patches Kernel#open.
<qyliss^work> Anything bigger, and I'd just do `Net::HTTP.get(url).value.body`.
<qyliss^work> That'll handle just about everything, except it will treat redirects as an error.
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
<joko> qyliss^work: I would create a company dashboard. We picked up smashing (https://github.com/Smashing/smashing) for that and we are going to write some integrations for GitHub, CirceCI etc.
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis1 has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
drakonis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<qyliss^work> joko: for that I would use Net::HTTP
pie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Zer000 has joined #nixos-chat
<jD91mZM2> infinisil: Lucky me, at this exact instance crate2nix does not support using a nightly rust. Still gave it a star for slowly becoming exactly what I'm looking for, frustrated, yesterday.
<jD91mZM2> I was looking for yesterday, but still am***
Myhlamaeus has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis1 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
pie_ has joined #nixos-chat
iqubic has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
waleee has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.4]
pie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
iqubic has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
drakonis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
LnL7 is now known as LnL
<colemickens> I know no one asked, but I hate mediawiki and the wiki software actively discourages me from contributing
<gchristensen> aye
<gchristensen> it is a hard thing, nobody agrees on one thing they do like :/
<gchristensen> docbook is good because at least everybody hates it equally, and then we can all be friends over it
<samueldr> docbook needs a wiki like gollum is for markdown
<gchristensen> is that what it needs? :D
<samueldr> among some things
<gchristensen> ^.^
<samueldr> it would help
<samueldr> another one would be a WYSIWY[MG] editor
<samueldr> either mean or get, depending
<samueldr> probably some kind of fusion between both
<gchristensen> I could send you my oXygen nix expr
<samueldr> I looked at prosemirror, and I *think* it should be able to handle docbook as a WYISWY[MG] hybrid, but lack of time and bootstrapping energy stopped me
<gchristensen> yeah
<samueldr> but AFAICT technically it fits all bills to be compatible with, at least, our subset of docbook
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
pie_ has joined #nixos-chat
ma27 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.4]
ma27 has joined #nixos-chat
pie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
drakonis1 has joined #nixos-chat
<infinisil> Do we actually use the docbook features for anything?
drakonis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<infinisil> Like e.g. do we get any use out of using `<command>` for commands instead of just `<literal>`
<samueldr> yes*
<infinisil> Where *=in the future ?
<samueldr> * not implemented yet, but exploratory work was done to see if it was possible to e.g. allow the initial `$` in a commands list to not be part of the selection
<samueldr> and exploratory work to, then, use the same data to verify the manual example works
<infinisil> Hmm I see
<infinisil> And I guess in the distant future we could even have a combination of those docbook man page tags, an interactive manual, nix-index, to allow you to just click on `vim(1)` and get to the manpage automatically :P
<samueldr> I don't like being reminded of the pile of stuff on my backburner
<infinisil> Something like that is in there?
<samueldr> it's getting quite stale, generated feb 25th 2018, but using nix-index, got every storepaths with a manual entry, and generated a page
<infinisil> Ahh yeah I remember that
<samueldr> lacking a GUI and automation
<samueldr> a directory listing isn't exactly the best
<samueldr> oops
<infinisil> We could potentially even run an html generation step for all packages with man pages
<samueldr> less useful than you'd think; it might always need some post-processing for things like a UI or integration with such a service
<samueldr> (but might be more useful than I think)
<infinisil> We could link to the html from the online manual
<infinisil> I guess
<samueldr> being indexed by google has that one advantage that I now know where to find manpages online :/
<samueldr> btw all that, generated, not deduped in any kind of form, is ~700MiB
drakonis1 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
jackdk has joined #nixos-chat
__monty__ has quit [Quit: leaving]
_jackdk has joined #nixos-chat
jackdk has quit [Disconnected by services]
_jackdk is now known as jackdk