gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<samueldr> now, that's a different origin story
<samueldr> 11 Nov 1999: wrote mod_homer, a simple Apache module that says "Doh!".
<gchristensen> :o :D
<samueldr> am I missing something or is this just echoing `rm -f thing` and not actually doing it? like @echo seems like a counter intuitive thing in makefiles?
<gchristensen> huh?
<samueldr> copy paste is two actions :|
<gchristensen> that is funny
<samueldr> it apparently always was echo'd, and never ran, since the inception of building the nixpkgs manual using that makefile :)
* samueldr removes and braces for impact
<gchristensen> that was a load-bearing echo!
<jasongrossman> samueldr: You just wiped my phone!
<samueldr> jasongrossman: EINVALID, make hasn't run yet
<samueldr> unless it's *that* potent
<jasongrossman> Right.
<gchristensen> time-traveling make
<jasongrossman> It must be super-idempotent: has the same effect when run any natural number of times.
<jackdk> warning: clock skew detected. Your build may be incomplete.
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<Taneb> jasongrossman: isn't anything idempotent also super-idempotent?
<Taneb> Unless 0 is a natural number
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<sphalerite> Taneb: I believe that's the definition jasongrossman was using, yes.
<sphalerite> Especially given the context.
<sphalerite> Also because it's the correct definition :p
<Taneb> I should try waking up before posting on IRC :P
<jasongrossman> Taneb: You were very kindly pretending not to know the jargon, so that non-mathematicians can get the joke.
<sphalerite> :D
<sphalerite> well, whether 0 is a natural number is a matter of opinion/preferred definition…
<sphalerite> (hence my :p on the assertion that it's the correct definition)
<Taneb> When I was in uni I got a shirt saying "0 ∈ ℕ" to spite my number theory lecturer
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<Taneb> ...I wonder if an RSS feed for nixpkgs channel updates is something exists/makes sense
<etu> Hmm, in a way it does
<Taneb> Can you elaborate?
<etu> But (the way I think of) is not very nice
<etu> :D
<etu> And since that repo is only updated whenever the channel updates
<etu> you'll get *all* the commits as entries in the feed on each channel update
<Taneb> That has the downside of being extraordinarily bursty
<etu> Indeed
<joepie91> Taneb: etu: https://howoldis.herokuapp.com/
<Taneb> joepie91: does that have an RSS feed?
<joepie91> no, but it does have an API :)
<joepie91> an RSS feed would be a small-ish change
<joepie91> to build on top of that
<gchristensen> what do you want from an RSSfeed?
<gchristensen> like do you literally want to subscribe your feed reader?
<Taneb> gchristensen: yes
<gchristensen> interesting
<gchristensen> what would you want to see in it?
<Taneb> Mostly just "An update has happened to the channel you're following"
<gchristensen> interesting
<joepie91> feels like the quick-and-dirty approach to implementing this, would be a tool that every N time checks the howoldis API, compares the latest commit to the latest commit in a local XML (RSS) file, and appends it if necessary; and then exposes an API along the lines of /feed?channels=18.09,unstable or so that merges the XML files at request time
<joepie91> that'd work without a separate DB
<gchristensen> I mean channels.nix.gsc.io already exists
<Taneb> lassulus: issue with that is I'd get suddenly dozens of updates at once whenver it updated
<gchristensen> so a follow-up to that would be generating the XML
<joepie91> oh, huh, right
<joepie91> didn't realize it kept history
<gchristensen> really? channels.nix.gsc.io's purpose is history
<gchristensen> maybe I should make this message clearer: Notice({^_^}): Channel nixos-19.03-small advanced to https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/commit/a05357f9442 (from 2 hours ago, history: https://channels.nix.gsc.io/nixos-19.03-small)
<joepie91> dunno, it just mentally registered to me as 'has current data'
<joepie91> :P
<joepie91> no idea why
<gchristensen> at any rate
<Taneb> gchristensen: I don't always see those if I'm not at my computer
<gchristensen> I understand, Taneb
<gchristensen> a little thing to convert git log A..B to some XML is all I'd need
<Taneb> gchristensen: if you let me know exactly how you get machine-readable input I might give it a go over lunch
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<etu> joepie91: Yeah, the "stuck" page I know. But RSS is handy.
<gchristensen> Taneb: given a file in this format: https://channels.nix.gsc.io/nixos-19.03-small/history output an atom feed
<gchristensen> to stdout
<gchristensen> Taneb: bonus points if the posts' content was a `git log` synopsis
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<Taneb> I may have been a little ambitious... I've got a first go that generates an RSS feed, but it needs work
<gchristensen> nice
<gchristensen> let's have it
<Taneb> When the entries have timestamps :P
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<Taneb> I'll do some more on it this evneing
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<etu> I'm trying to configure an NFS mount to mount after the network is up...
<etu> But it doesn't go very well
<etu> That is the closest I've come, but it's terribly slow
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<etu> And it's slow because it times out: http://ix.io/1EIA on the network-online part before it actually is successful
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<etu> And this is with "networking.useNetworkd = true;" set
<etu> If I don't use networkd it will spam requests to automount and fail after 5 attempts before the network is up
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<sphalerite> :|
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<jasongrossman> samueldr: That is hilarious.
<Taneb> jasongrossman: only in the same way following politics is
<jasongrossman> Taneb: Right.
<samueldr> jasongrossman: the router is secure if your hacking tool can't connect to it
<samueldr> CQFD
<samueldr> uh
<samueldr> QED
<jasongrossman> It's not EVEN security through obscurity.
<samueldr> s/ through obscurity//
<jasongrossman> Right.
<samueldr> :)
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<gchristensen> hello Nix friends! I am thrilled to announce lorri, a project by Profpatsch, shlevy, Tweag, Target, and myself -- it aims to be a nicer nix-shell for your projects! check it out: https://www.tweag.io/posts/2019-03-28-introducing-lorri.html
<Taneb> Seems neat
<emily> :o
<emily> "lorri was built by Tweag for Target" what's with Target doing a bunch of random FP stuff?
<Taneb> emily: they've got Conal masterminding it
<emily> IIRC they employ Conal Elliott too
<joepie91> that looks interesting
<joepie91> the tool, I mean
<Taneb> If I was a) looking for a job, and b) willing to relocate to the US, Target's definitely somewhere I'd think about
<Taneb> But I'm not and I'm not, so I'll just use their tools
<joepie91> lol
<Taneb> I think I'll try out Lorri over the weekend
<etu> gchristensen: That explains why you talked about running the garbage collector every 10 minutes before ;)
<gchristensen> :)
<gchristensen> (I mentioned that in the blog post, but couldn't find a nice way to work it in is a co-authored post)
<etu> Looking forward to trying it out
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<emily> gchristensen: ...does your IRC client render Markdown?
<emily> also, looks exciting
<emily> Taneb: it does say "We are a distributed team. Our company is based in Minneapolis, MN and our team is based in Sunnyvale, CA, but more than 50% of the team works outside these areas, and we operate as a remote-first team."
<emily> although they also list the location as Sunnyvale on the posting :/
<emily> companies love being ambiguous about remote work, it seems
<joepie91> their HR software might not have an 'Earth' option for the location :)
<Taneb> emily: OK, so it's a no and a maybe rather than two nos :P
<emily> joepie91: hmph. just because the ping from Mars is a bit long doesn't mean I can't do effective work
<gchristensen> emily: it doesn't, just making a joke
<joepie91> :D
<gchristensen> emily: where are you located?
<gchristensen> (could PM if you'd prefer)
<gchristensen> actually, it doesn't matter. my reply will be the same no matter what
<gchristensen> if you're interested, apply
<Ralith> gchristensen: you work there?
<gchristensen> I work for Tweag, Tweag does work for Target
<gchristensen> I work with their team to do cool stuff like build lorri
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<Taneb> Tweag is somewhere that for me only has one "no" (ie. I'm not currently looking for a job)
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<Taneb> gchristensen: are their any constraints on where people can work for Tweag remotely from?
<gchristensen> depends, do you fall on this map? https://www.tweag.io/about
<Taneb> There's a chance I'm going to have to seriously consider moving to Italy for personal reasons in the next year or so, which would give a serious knock to my one remaining no
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<gchristensen> I'm assuming you live somewhere represented by that map
<Taneb> Currently UK
<gchristensen> should be fine, then
<Taneb> As in, if I'm eligible to work in the UK I can work for Tweag?
<gchristensen> I don't think Tweag requirement on where you are, and I was trying to make a joke by asking if you were on the map (trying to suggest that answering yes means you'd be fine)
<Taneb> I see
<Taneb> Thanks :)
<samueldr> gchristensen: (joking) can't work if you're in the south of australia, south of south america and in antarctica?
<gchristensen> (but also, this map excludes New Zealand and well-populated parts of Australia, and I think we'd expand the map to support that)
<gchristensen> haha
<samueldr> gchristensen: NZ expanded to 100% my window shows full NZ :)
<Taneb> Also, Italy is pretty well hidden by the W and E in TWEAG
<gchristensen> we've had to redesign this page in the past as new people joined
<MichaelRaskin> gchristensen: I wonder if Tweag has large enough presence in Europe to be able to do the dance necessary to work with people living in Iran.
<gchristensen> that is *significantly* above my paygrade
<MichaelRaskin> Iran is quite visible on the map…
<gchristensen> a great question
<Taneb> Getting back to making that RSS feed thingy
<MichaelRaskin> (no I don't know anyone there who wants to work for Tweag)
<gchristensen> * exceptions apply, due to geopolitical concerns outside of Tweag's control
<samueldr> do the points represent personel, and do they track you live? :3
<gchristensen> lol
<manveru> gchristensen: you wanna add lorri to nixpkgs?
<MichaelRaskin> samueldr: default _city_ of residence is a relevant piece of information in case of global routing wonkiness, so there is a legitimate reason to track.
<gchristensen> manveru: yeah! thanks! :D
<manveru> just asking because it takes ages to build rust stuff :P
<gchristensen> samueldr: that is starting to get pretty specific, but .. I mean ... most employers track where their employees live
<gchristensen> so they can do things like send tax info, health insurance, etc.
<samueldr> the question was half truthful: are they for personel or rather local offices, and the latter part, no I don't expect the points to track you :)
<gchristensen> ah
<gchristensen> so the glowing dot on the east coast of the US is me ... just me. some of the dots in EU represent many people
<MichaelRaskin> Health insurance is probably per-country anyway. Tax can be quite localised
<gchristensen> some of those people have a local office to go to, some of them don't
<manveru> gchristensen: also, any way to just start `lorri watch` from the `.envrc`? atm it doesn't seem to check if one is running already
<andi-> Is there some good documentation on how to select maxJobs/buildCores? I feel like someone is having a hard time grasping it.. https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/57936#issuecomment-477702994
<pie_> lorri, watch this
<samueldr> lorri, hold my drink
<gchristensen> manveru: not at the moment, no
<gchristensen> manveru: we discussed (at a bit of length) ways of doing this, and decided to go ahead and open source it. there is an issue we'll be moving over which talks about it.
<gchristensen> andi-: want me to write something?
<andi-> gchristensen: sure, you might be able to relate to your results of the hydra settings
<gchristensen> yeah
<gchristensen> selecting these numbers is hard, and there is no easy answer -- depends on your work load.
<andi-> Yeah.. I have been drafting a reply for a while but I am having a hard time with him...
<gchristensen> aye. let me follow-up with it
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<Taneb> gchristensen: this is as far as my attention span is taking me for the RSS feed thing: https://gist.github.com/Taneb/fc9cc3b5d859c4e29422a6597dc04d57
<Taneb> (in Haskell, uses the `rss` library)
<gchristensen> nice
<gchristensen> Taneb: may I request a couple minor changes?
<Taneb> You may, but I'm about to go home to muck around with window managers
<gchristensen> I'd like to pass in the name of the channel and a local history file
<Taneb> Name of the channel was something I've been thinking about. What does a local history file look like?
<Taneb> Oh, yeah :)
<gchristensen> and the other thing is can you give me a nix expression to build this?
<Taneb> I will endeavour to do so.
<gchristensen> thank you :)}
<Taneb> Another thing is I've got no way to look at the git log with this
<gchristensen> no worries
<gchristensen> someone else can do that
<Taneb> No obvious and nice way, at least. I could clone the repo and do it myself, but that feels a tad much
<gchristensen> yeah, don't worry about that
<Taneb> Also I haven't tested what the output to this looks like in an actual aggregator
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<{^_^}> nix#2749 (by grahamc, 9 seconds ago, open): docs: document balancing cores and max-jobs
<gchristensen> "The <xref linkend="conf-cores" /> setting determines" ... <3 this.
<andi-> Yay, will look later :)
<andi-> gchristensen++
<{^_^}> gchristensen's karma got increased to 94
<gchristensen> oh man
<manveru> that will keep one instance of lorri running per pwd :)
<manveru> until you close the shell
<gchristensen> wow!
<manveru> it's not pretty, but it's good enough for now... might be possible to write with awk or something instead
<manveru> no clue how to port that to macs either :(
<gchristensen> =)
<gchristensen> manveru: mind openinga bug report with this in it?
<manveru> will do
<gchristensen> I put some stupid retry logic in r13y and cut back how many builds it does at once (it was running more builds at a time than there were cores. oops.)
<clever> gchristensen: have you messed with the log folding in buildkite much?
<gchristensen> not at all!
<gchristensen> should I?
<clever> gchristensen: it makes the logs far more readable
<gchristensen> I did see I can print emoji
<{^_^}> buildkite/frontend#421 (by cleverca22, 51 weeks ago, open): Feature Request: show estimate of remaining time on the build
<gchristensen> nice
<gchristensen> I wonder how many logs it can handle folded :P
<clever> you basically just print ~~~ Preparing files ...
<gchristensen> a folded log doens't reset the 1MB limit, does it?
<clever> if the entire log gets over 1mb, the folding glitches out
<gchristensen> oof
<clever> it mainly helps you know which step takes more time, and also reduces how much you need to scroll thru when you open a chunk
<manveru> gchristensen: https://github.com/target/lorri/issues/2 (almost) pure bash version now
<{^_^}> target/lorri#2 (by manveru, 20 seconds ago, open): Avoid having to run `lorri watch` yourself
<gchristensen> <3
<pie_> goodness 0_0
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<Ralith> this looks very pleasant
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