<tilpner>
How does Linux always manage to swap out the 71MB that are most essential...
<tilpner>
(Where "most essential" is any memory that causes half a minute of lag during normal desktop interaction)
<clever>
tilpner: mlock() and mlockall() could help
<tilpner>
clever: In what manner would I use those functions when I'm not developing software?
<clever>
patching software to lock that critical code in ram?
<infinisil>
Wow: "When mapping ports in the HOST:CONTAINER format, you may experience erroneous results when using a container port lower than 60, because YAML will parse numbers in the format xx:yy as sexagesimal (base 60). For this reason, we recommend always explicitly specifying your port mappings as strings."
<clever>
infinisil: i think its far safer to generate the yaml from a data record, with toJSON instances
<clever>
then the encoder can deal with these things for you
<clever>
but at that point, just use something simpler like json :P
<tilpner>
clever: While that's a possible solution, maintaining patches against X and building it every time sounds worse. I'd much rather have a way to communicate "don't swap out memory owned by X"
<clever>
tilpner: you could also make an LD_PRELOAD library that iwll overwrite main(), mlockall(), and then call the original main()
<tilpner>
Oh, that might actually be practical :o
<tilpner>
Apparently swappiness can be configured per cgroup, that might be the proper solution here
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<clever>
tilpner: oh, thats nice too
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<jD91mZM2>
Does anyone of you have advice for learning dvorak? I'm trying to use the Dvorak touch typing course on gtypist, but I am getting pretty bored when writing and frustrated each time I make a mistake, and angry when having to redo a course. And I'm just typing at 8 WPM. Clearly not working.
<gchristensen>
use it
<gchristensen>
print out a diagram and just commit it
<gchristensen>
commit to it*
<joepie91>
jD91mZM2: you can get dvorak sticker sheets on ebay for fairly cheap fwiw, if that helps to find the right keys during normal work
<gchristensen>
use it for everything, not just courses
<jD91mZM2>
That'd be nice, just scared of being unable to type my password. I don't have any stickers
<gchristensen>
print out the map. you'll figure it out. SLOWLY, at first, but you'll figure it out.
<jD91mZM2>
joepie91: I see, thanks, will have a look
<joepie91>
jD91mZM2: make sure you get a sticker sheet that looks vaguely glossy, not normal-paper-y
<joepie91>
otherwise it won't last longer than a week :D
* infinisil
can't remember how he learned dvorak
<jD91mZM2>
How important would you guys say it is to rest your fingers on the home row? Even with QWERTY I am not that rested when typing. It's bad but I make more mistakes when using my ring/pinky finger
<jD91mZM2>
s/finger/fingers
<infinisil>
What do you mean by using rink/pinky?
<infinisil>
You're not using them normally?
<gchristensen>
imo quite
<jD91mZM2>
Not that much. I know it sucks, but I just never got used to it
<averell>
why are you learning dvorak? i don't think it increased my speed, only comfort, and that means staying on the home row all day
<jD91mZM2>
I want to try something new (although I suck at it)
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<gchristensen>
crippled-by-rsi here, not sure dvorak really helped
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<averell>
i wonder if i should have gone for programmer-dvorak
<cransom>
i realized earlier this week when trying out a non standard (ergodox) keyboard i have some really interesting brain damage. probably 10-15 years ago i tried a very exotic keyboard (datahand) and also switch to dvorak. I got to a point where i could kind of touch type but i gave it up. i tried typing on this other keyboard and my brain completely forgot how everything worked and it started reaching for
<cransom>
dvorak keys.
<gchristensen>
huh!
<gchristensen>
ps, still have the datahands? :)
<cransom>
no, someone coveted them way before you (because they already wore out theirs)
<gchristensen>
awww
<jD91mZM2>
In order to avoid stickers, and being a cool pure touch typer, would it be worth having a keybind to toggle dvorak so I can use it most of the time except for when I for some reason just need to type fast
<averell>
sure, that's useful anyway. for example when you vnc or some other program that just maps directly and ignores your keymappings
<gchristensen>
imo, no
<gchristensen>
if you want to learn, commit
<averell>
ok, that i agree with
<gchristensen>
it is the moments you need to type fast that you learn the most
<jD91mZM2>
I'm just scared of being unable to type my password heh
<jD91mZM2>
I can't commit until I learn the whole keyboard, not just the home row
<gchristensen>
you won't learn it that way, is what I'm saying.
<gchristensen>
print out a map, switch to dvorak, and don't look back until you know dvorak
<jD91mZM2>
Gotcha, thanks!
<gchristensen>
it'll suck
<gchristensen>
but you're training your mind, and immersion is the fastest and least painful way between here and there
<averell>
especially if you spend hours logging in :)
<jD91mZM2>
Haha, thanks
<gchristensen>
even on my one-handed keyboard it doesn't take me more than 10min to log in... :)
<joepie91>
lol
<averell>
is it one-handed dvorak?
<gchristensen>
no, it is right-handed maltron
<jD91mZM2>
I'm wondering if I can blame my Asperger's on having a hard time learning this. Apparently less gets stored in the automatic memory, I learned in school
<gchristensen>
maybe, but blame isn't going to help you learn it either :P
<jD91mZM2>
No but it can help my self esteem :))
<averell>
oh man that maltron looks ridiculous. but you should get another and dual-wield.
<gchristensen>
definitely don't feel _bad_ about it, jD91mZM2
<joepie91>
averell: kinda like the inverse of that NCIS(?) clip where they share a keyboard?
<joepie91>
on a single computer
<gchristensen>
hahaha
<gchristensen>
averell: tragically I can't use it :( my right hand is the one with worse RSI
<joepie91>
gchristensen: I don't recall if I've mentioned this before, but my RSI-y issues have significantly decreased since I switched to a keyboard with obscenely sensitive switches (MX Speed) for this reason
<joepie91>
they're not the most satisfying switches to type on, but they certainly reduce the pressure needed
<gchristensen>
hmm like reds
<gchristensen>
mine are browns
<joepie91>
yeah, they're similar to reds, except more sensitive
<joepie91>
lol
<gchristensen>
I wonder if I can convince Kinesis to build one for me
<infinisil>
jD91mZM2: Well, just as another datapoint, I didn't really commit to dvorak at first but still learned it in the end :)
<joepie91>
gchristensen: I do kind of miss the clicky thing though
<gchristensen>
I like my keyboard to be as quiet as possible, becuase it is already annoying to be the guy with the kinesis :P
<gchristensen>
thanks for the tip, I'll check it out! (if nothing else, I could hack one of my spares)
* joepie91
has heard of there supposedly being some chinese switches that are both extremely sensitive and clicky, still needs to look into that
<averell>
not if you convert the rest of the office
<joepie91>
gchristensen: mind that corsair previously had an exclusive license to use them, dunno if that's expired yet
* cransom
imagines a cube farm of clicky keyboards and thousand yard stares.
<joepie91>
if not, your only option is a rather overpriced corsair keyboard :p
<joepie91>
I know it was a time-limited license but I don't recall for how long
<cransom>
i don't have any one to annoy with a clicky keyboard, and i did have one that clicked mightily at one point in time but gave it up when ps/2 went away. i'm gonna fix that.
<joepie91>
I work from home, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<joepie91>
people are more likely to complain about my music
<joepie91>
and I have very noise-tolerant neighbours, apparently :P
<infinisil>
joepie91: You're listening to music full blast when working?
<joepie91>
infinisil: for some definition of "full blast", yes, but probably less loud than you're thinking :P
<joepie91>
noise isolation is very poor here
<joepie91>
so it doesn't take a lot
<gchristensen>
I used to wear open-backed headphones at work
<gchristensen>
what a mistake, I feel so bad about those years
<tilpner>
It's just a bump, there shouldn't be anything controversial
<infinisil>
Oh nice
<tilpner>
I tested it. Want to hit the button?
<infinisil>
I'm gonna check it out myself quickly
<tilpner>
python3 -m http.server works for testing
<infinisil>
Ah right it's a web app
<tilpner>
I plug that into nginx with a custom config.json, and then run it locally with chromium --app
<elvishjerricco>
Anyone have an example of HTML that isn't valid XML? Trying to figure out any kind of precise reason that HTML isn't a subset of XML. So far all I've found is "HTML is for the web, XML is for data" but no actual technical description of the difference.
<cransom>
i didn't think that was possible.
<gchristensen>
HTML doesn't require tags to close
<cransom>
sigh. thats why we can't have nice things.
<tilpner>
Browser HTML parsers do horrible things to pretend your input is well-formed
<gchristensen>
by-the-spec HTML doesn't require tags to close ;)
<elvishjerricco>
gchristensen: Ah. You think it's mostly stuff like that then, such that writing XML using only valid HTML tags and attributes would be valid HTML?
<gchristensen>
pretty much certain yeah
<elvishjerricco>
Neat
<gchristensen>
it'd be a real shame if they made it so an XML library couldn't emit HTML
<elvishjerricco>
So in theory one could write a static site generator in Nix with builtins.toXML :P
<tilpner>
D:
<gchristensen>
dear god
<elvishjerricco>
lol
<gchristensen>
no I don't think so
<gchristensen>
toXML can't emit arbitrary XML
<elvishjerricco>
ah
<elvishjerricco>
mostly joking anyway... mostly.
<infinisil>
tilpner: Looking good :D
<tilpner>
infinisil++
<{^_^}>
infinisil's karma got increased to 53
<infinisil>
I can't actually send anything because I can't join the channel for some reason, but that's probably an unrelated problem
<tilpner>
Which channel? Did you login?
<joepie91>
elvishjerricco: for the specifics - which I don't immediately recall - you should investigate HTML's origins in SGML and how /that/ is different from XML :)
<samueldr>
elvishjerricco: from memory, a reason to shy away from XHTML was to ensure a big page being loaded could be eagerly rendered; you can't be sure an xml document is well-formed until the end
<samueldr>
and it would have been entirely plausible to ask to not render an invalid xml document
<samueldr>
I'm not saying here if it's right or wrong though, just something to keep in mind
<samueldr>
(and uh, s l o w connections also benefit from eagerly rendering)
<elvishjerricco>
samueldr: I guess that makes sense. I'm surprised it's that bad to optimistically eagerly render xhtml and error or backtrack when you find out you're wrong
<elvishjerricco>
TIL changing perl requires rebuilding like all of nixpkgs. Why?
<samueldr>
because of how many things near the root of stdenv having perl as dependency
<elvishjerricco>
samueldr: does stdenv itself require perl to bootstrap?
<elvishjerricco>
If so, that sounds like a bad thing
* samueldr
actually doesn't know
<samueldr>
not sure why it would be a bad thing per se, but can see how reducing deps is good
<elvishjerricco>
samueldr: The fewer things that require stdenv rebuilds, the better. In an ideal world, there'd just be the C toolchain and bash
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<sphalerite>
elvishjerricco: you think stdenv would still be using bash in an ideal world??
<sphalerite>
:p
<elvishjerricco>
Fair point :P
<elvishjerricco>
however perl's not really better
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<joepie91>
help, I'm writing my JS like Nix code now
<joepie91>
you're hitting a different code path because you have no devtools
<tilpner>
Error: Expected the enhancer to be a function.
<joepie91>
hm, hold on
* joepie91
just disables the devtools check
<gchristensen>
emily: you'll love(hate) the reason why!
<joepie91>
there we go, fixed
<joepie91>
for real now, tested with devtools stuff disabled
<joepie91>
for realsies real
<joepie91>
:P
<tilpner>
Oh, content!
<joepie91>
(I should not be debugging isssues late at night, sorry!)
<gchristensen>
neat!
<joepie91>
but yeah, the 'add a friend' form totally lies about anything it says or does but it *does* do stuff!
* tilpner
is Sven Slootweg
<joepie91>
lol
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<joepie91>
excellent, that component has passed UX testing then
<tilpner>
It says so. The text isn't selectable for some reason
<joepie91>
selection is default-off
<SvenSlootweg>
looks perfect to me!
<joepie91>
still need to make some specific elements selectable
<elvishjerricco>
Perl is a wopping 28M. Is there any way to make it smaller?
<joepie91>
tilpner: need to disable selection for future drag-and-drop interactions; and "default selectable, specific things unselectable" makes for some really fun browser bugs, so instead I go for "default unselectable, specific things selectable"
<tilpner>
elvishjerricco: Just 28? It says 57 here
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<elvishjerricco>
tilpner: I get 54 with `nix path-info -s`, but 28 with `du`
<jackdk>
isn't that a modest webpage these days?
<tilpner>
I remember using pkgsMusl.perl for lower closure size
<joepie91>
gchristensen: anyway, the module system is behind the form doing things :P so it is inventing a universe indeed
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<elvishjerricco>
On ZFS with compression, does `du` measure before or after ZFS's compression?
<tilpner>
Haven't gotten around to reinstalling this laptop yet
<gchristensen>
ext4 is pretty good anyway
<tilpner>
But compression is nice too
<tilpner>
My rpool/var has compressratio 2.99x
<gchristensen>
oh wow
<elvishjerricco>
Man NixOS's use of perl may be the death of this fun little initrd project. Seems impossible to get a reasonable size with that in the mix :/
<tilpner>
"In the oneshot category the leading submission manages to achieve over 1.5 gigabytes of error. This is remarkable especially given that the source size is limited to 256 bytes."
<joepie91>
hah
<gchristensen>
hahaha
<gchristensen>
we've proved C++ templates are turing complete, can we compute where the results are in the type error
<joepie91>
"There were several interesting cheat attempts in this competition. For example did you know that in C++ digraph expansion happens after line continuation expansion? We sure did not."
<joepie91>
lol
<joepie91>
the things you can learn from these kind of competitioins...
<joepie91>
"The best cheat went in a completely different direction, however. [...] When passed to the C++ compiler invocation line, this allows the shell code to escape the test harness sandbox. Extra credit for using Perl, which is the only language less readable than C++ templates."
<joepie91>
yeah, there's some interesting approaches in there :P