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<samueldr> armv7 devices have the main drawback of not being able to rely on a quite juicy binary cache
<samueldr> I still have to circle back to the armv7 ports question, it's not been tested in more than a year
<samueldr> I tried to test it, but the vendor kernel for asus-flo is too old for systemd
<samueldr> so I'd need to get mainline going
<samueldr> but it's not really interesting when you think that you have no software at that point still :)
<samueldr> (I also have an amazon fire tablet I want to port to)
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<red[evilred]> can you root those things in order to install your own software on them?
<samueldr> no
<samueldr> well
<samueldr> not really
<samueldr> but you can do one better
<samueldr> but maybe not on the current ones
<samueldr> there are a couple forks also
<samueldr> basically you can exploit a flaw that allows you to *replace* the aboot bootloader with a backdoored one
<red[evilred]> if I could choose any android device of mine to root it would be the big tab
<red[evilred]> I hhave two of them and I love them
<red[evilred]> but they crash all the time
<samueldr> the big tab?
<samueldr> though I have to say: DO NOT buy an amazon fire with the intent to run something else on it, assume that even with this no software will be made for it
<samueldr> what the flipping heck is that?
<red[evilred]> it's a massive taplet
<samueldr> yeah, I gathered as much :)
<red[evilred]> don't for a second think that it's battery powered
<samueldr> never saw that before
<red[evilred]> its battery life is about 60 seconds
<red[evilred]> :-)
<samueldr> oh, it's not?
<samueldr> ah
<samueldr> it is
<samueldr> but not usefully
<red[evilred]> enough for you to switch cables
<red[evilred]> I love the thing
<red[evilred]> big bright display
<samueldr> >> While the smaller models (if you can call them that), will have NVIDIA Tegra K1 processors and 2GB of RAM, the 55 and 65 inch model has a new Tegra X1 processor
<red[evilred]> Whoa
<samueldr> interesting to know
<red[evilred]> just found a video "how to rioot the big tab"
<samueldr> A-15, armv7l sad trumpet
<red[evilred]> that didn't exist last time I looked
<samueldr> oh, it's most likely generated from useless generic steps
<red[evilred]> is that good or bad? I know it's really old
<samueldr> not bad per se
<samueldr> but no binary cache
<cirno-999> last question from me -- the ps vita has armv7 cpu right? any chances of porting nixos mobile to it? :D
<samueldr> cirno-999: if there's linux, there's a chance
<samueldr> that's the basic gist of it
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<samueldr> at some point I'll go through the nintendo-hac port :3
<samueldr> looks like the nabi is unlockable
<samueldr> but that doesn't do good if there's no kernel sources
<samueldr> so it's probably easily rootable
<red[evilred]> Well, i have two
<red[evilred]> it dioesn't strike me as the kind of device that will have serious security implemented on it
<samueldr> it's generally not about security
<samueldr> it's more about having the option or not
<samueldr> and the platform itself being secure or not
<samueldr> e.g. amazon fire tablets use a mediatek SoC
<samueldr> which up until the flaw for amonet was found, was secure for booting
<samueldr> since amazon didn't leave the unlock option in their bootloader build, no way to unlock and then root
<red[evilred]> speaking of - and slightly off topic - I was at the RISC-V conference today
<samueldr> same soc on other devices, the option is present, trivial to root and modify the boot image
<samueldr> and THEN there's the kernel source shenanigans
<samueldr> if the vendor does not provide them, tough luck building a kernel
<red[evilred]> I thought that was the whole point of the device tree :-P
<samueldr> unless you're lucky enough to track down every kernel drivers
<samueldr> device tree only describes what's there
<samueldr> if it says there's a acme-foobar in there
<samueldr> and you don't have the driver
<samueldr> you're in a world of hurt!
<red[evilred]> ah - bleugh
<samueldr> device trees only describe what's present
<samueldr> not unlike the ACPI tables on "wintel" platforms
<red[evilred]> oh - I got a dispatch date from solidrun
<samueldr> (ACPI does more)
<samueldr> (and ACPI is not exclusive to x86_64)
<red[evilred]> or - expected dispatch date that is
<red[evilred]> "
<red[evilred]> We expect to ship your order at the end of December. "
<samueldr> which year :)
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<red[evilred]> pretty much
<red[evilred]> I confess wishing that I went for the ThunderX
<red[evilred]> but every time I say that gchristensen (IRC) reassures me that I should wait as the thunderX cpus are, not awesome./
* red[evilred] stalks ebay anyways...
<gchristensen> without budget you can't be too picky
<gchristensen> they're significantly nicer than the pi for example :)
<hexa-> yep, my pi craps itself in regularly intervals
<hexa-> like going into an undefined state, stale, idk
<gchristensen> but if I had the choice I wouldn't go for thunderx. but if I didn't and I had a thunderx available, givegcivegive
<red[evilred]> oh wow - look at the horrific cable management on this:
<red[evilred]> all the cables blocking the fans
<gchristensen> I can't quite tell if they're blocking the fan or above, but ....
<gchristensen> Ican hear th escream from here
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<hexa-> no arm cpu sounded as convincing as m1
<hexa-> and we're at like third gen thunderx
<hexa-> but that came out last year or so
<hexa-> no buzz
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<red[evilred]> I have to say the mac mini doesn't look that expensive
<red[evilred]> it may be worth a look at a nixos target
<samueldr> ugh, don't buy hardware that is purposefully obscured down
<samueldr> can't say locked down as it apparently is allowing running custom software
<samueldr> but they went for so long, and it's still going, not properly acknowledging the question
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<red[evilred]> expecting open hardware from Apple - what was I thinking
<hexa-> and you can't actually repair the thing yourself
<red[evilred]> I'm so impatient
<red[evilred]> maybe I should just try and get qemu-aarch64 working
<red[evilred]> at least I'd have something to play with
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<veleiro> over at #novena armv7 with nixos has been fun! I just got my novena back up
<veleiro> and running for the first time in probably 4 years
<samueldr> neat, I think srk has one too
<samueldr> not sure if you can both be helpful to eachother
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<veleiro> samueldr: srk is the one guided me through the process!
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<samueldr> I guess you already were then
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<veleiro> yes
<veleiro> well i'm not so helpful so far for anyone in nix
<veleiro> but i hope to change that now
<veleiro> by unexisting binary caches in armv7, you dont mean in nixos right?
<veleiro> just the variation that exist between vendors in the armv7 space
<samueldr> no
<samueldr> I mean at cache.nixos.org
<samueldr> binary cache as in prebuilt packages
<samueldr> except maybe for the kernels (and even then) armv7l is armv7l
<samueldr> so all of those would be sharing the same packages
<veleiro> ah
<veleiro> i suppose so far my experience has been similar in arm64
<veleiro> but as you know, only with the PBP
<veleiro> i dont have any other arm64 platforms
<veleiro> and the last i remember hydra has a lot of build problems with it
<veleiro> whats a 100% cached arm64 hardware device?
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<samueldr> other than the kernel, there is no difference in the packages
<samueldr> and even then
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<samueldr> if the device is supported by the mainline kernel, the kernel is the same
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<veleiro> did anyone ever figure out why large hydra jobs like firefox were failing
<veleiro> in hydra?
<samueldr> you experience is unlikely to be the same with armv7l as with aarch64, unless you used a third-party cache
<samueldr> with armv7l, if you're not using a third-party cache, you have to build everything
<veleiro> yes armv7l i havent found any hits on unofficial caches either
<veleiro> everything will be compiled.
<samueldr> nothing yet really about those big builds
<veleiro> it will be interesting for arm64 when more of these >4GB RAM builds are prevalent
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<veleiro> 8gb rpi4
<veleiro> anyone interested in https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform ?
<samueldr> not enough to buy one
<samueldr> and that keyboard layout... doesn't look good to me
<samueldr> that right shift is torture
<samueldr> those alt key placement shows no one using an international layout was consulted
<samueldr> ctrl/hyper being swapped around, I totally don't care, that's cool enough
<samueldr> especially since it's fixable in software
<veleiro> i havent looked deeply into the keyboard but i do own kailh choc switche
<samueldr> but things like the right shift key being truncated AND to the right of the up arrow key, not
<samueldr> and the alt keys being center of the spacebar really isn't fixable in software either
<veleiro> and i would have chosen them to build my own low profile mech keyboard for
<veleiro> a laptop
<veleiro> trackball is hard to get right in software too
<samueldr> I don't know what's up with everyone trying to change the keyboard in weird ways
<samueldr> well, I know some aren't trying to do that, and are just buying existing ODM keyboards
<veleiro> in layout?
<samueldr> but why were those ODMs messing with a standard layout??
<samueldr> yeah
<samueldr> there is an ISO standard, just follow it
<veleiro> i __love__ using dvorak and also these split keyboards like ergodox/corne
<samueldr> the pinebook pro almost had a non-standard layout
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<veleiro> but its more of a hobbyist thing
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<samueldr> yeah, I don't mind _people_ doing it and speciality keyboards
<samueldr> but on a more mass-market appeal it's not great
<veleiro> well i grew up on ansi since it was created, i think
<veleiro> i do remember iso-like enter keys at some point
<samueldr> ANSI is a myth :)
<samueldr> the commonly misnamed "ANSI" layout is ISO too
<samueldr> the both of them are covered under the ISO standard
<samueldr> and imo either enter shapes are okay, though I do have a preference
<samueldr> it's when you go around and mess with key locations that it becomes an issue
<veleiro> or keycodes
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<samueldr> well, key location is keycode in a way
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<samueldr> because if you look at this section, the picture showing key locations, those end up mapping to specific keycodes
<veleiro> so i take it you're not a fan of dvorak or colemak or similar?
<samueldr> that's a keyboard layout / mapping
<samueldr> that's irrelevant imo
<samueldr> the actual keyboard will report the same scancode whatever the layout is
<veleiro> ahhh, so just the key sizing and placement
<samueldr> yes
<veleiro> like ortho
<samueldr> don't go placing "E12" to the right of "A03"
<veleiro> in my experience its such a niche thing to have alternative key placements
<samueldr> leave them all at their location according to the standard, mapped to their right scancodes
<samueldr> and futz around with the layout if you want
<samueldr> well, the mapping
<veleiro> this is the first example of a keyboard on a "laptop" ive seen
<veleiro> thats similar to keyboard geeks preferences
<samueldr> hm?
<veleiro> the mnt reform mechanical keyboard
<samueldr> ah
<veleiro> is one of the only laptops i've seen with these geeky mech key thing
<samueldr> I think it might be illegal in some countries to sell such a keyboard :)
<samueldr> because of that ISO layout thing
<samueldr> to the right of A08, they put D13, and instead of D13... something that isn't in that specific map I follow
<samueldr> though I think that specific arrangement would be fixable in software
<veleiro> ohhh that is strange
<samueldr> yeah, ODMs are like that
<samueldr> just placing keys until they fit in a rectangle
<samueldr> selling it to whoever buys them
<samueldr> still looking for a good picture of the 11" keyboard
<samueldr> now, THAT is an horror
<samueldr> instead of B00, they put D13
<samueldr> they extended D12 into a short D13 location
<samueldr> C11 is somehow rommate with E11
<veleiro> that would cause problems for alternate key layouts
<samueldr> it does
<samueldr> and then there's that right shift key being shifted all the way over there
<samueldr> that keyboard is an horror
<samueldr> I own one and it's unusable becauseo f that
<veleiro> i experienced something similar with trying to flash native dvorak on the ergodox
<veleiro> i gave up
<samueldr> again, user customization, and speciality keyboards I don't have an issue with
<veleiro> yeah i see what you mean, i suppose i just dont like any normal mainstream keyboards
<veleiro> well they seemingly changed it for the PBP
<samueldr> hm?
<veleiro> the PBP keyboard does not look like that
<samueldr> yeah, the PBP keyboard I lobbied relatively loudly to make sure they follow the ISO standard, whether it be tallboi enter or wideboi enter
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<veleiro> well good job
<samueldr> (in addition to participation in the IRC)
<veleiro> its still not a thinkpad =)
<veleiro> nice!
<veleiro> i have no standards in keyboards other than i like to be different i suppose
<veleiro> so what do i know
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<veleiro> i enjoy not leaving the home row for mount interaction with the trackpoint
<veleiro> on thinkpads is all i mean
<veleiro> mouse*
<veleiro> GUIs have changed a lot of relationships with users and computers
<veleiro> its now mostly mouse based navigation and its not better IMO
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<ehmry> veleiro: I'm using the reform keyboard right now, its nice
<ehmry> I didn't like the two spacebars but it took maybe fifteen minutes how to remap it to cntrl in the firmware and reflash the keyboard
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<patagonicus> Oh, great, I can't reproduce the broken includes when building the kernel manual, even if using the same config. So it's something about the way nixpkgs builds the kernel.
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<veleiro> ehmry: im a real fan of those low profile switches so at least that was a
<veleiro> good choice
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<ehmry> veleiro: yea I choose laptops based on how the keyboard feels, and this is the best laptop keyboard ever
<ehmry> the stagger is a bit odd a first, but the switches make it worth it
<ehmry> the touchball is pretty too
<ehmry> *pretty good
<ehmry> it a pain to clean, but thats fixed in the current models
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