<jlv>
Ok. The disable, reboot, enable, reboot didn't fix it
<jlv>
I'm going to call it for now and take a break.
<jlv>
Might just reinstall nixos or something
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<pie_>
id bet a box of cookies its something in your sound settings
<pie_>
jlv, actually
<pie_>
one more thing you can try is see if pulseaudio has some configuration directory somewhere and maybe try deleting it and restarting the service or rebooting again
<drakonis>
sometimes pulseaudio gets weird about audio
<DigitalKiwi>
i have one computer it's working fine on but i might not have it setup right or updated, and another one that it's...i believe the technical term is spewing errors
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<gchristensen>
though it is quite bad behavior to write to your own config :/
<gchristensen>
(imo)
* gchristensen
takes that back, only applicable to server software
<simpson>
DigitalKiwi: A capability is a communicable token of authority; a capability is both an ability to do an action, and also the permission to carry out that action.
<DigitalKiwi>
so like when phone apps ask for camera
<simpson>
Kind of! It'd be like if the phone app's entire UX *couldn't care* whether or not it could access the camera.
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<gchristensen>
simpson: maybe comparing it to a store path would be helpful
<simpson>
DigitalKiwi: In the context of Nix, I like to think of "package capabilities", or paths into the Nix store. They're hard to find by accident ("unguessable", formally) so if you know a Nix store path then you probably were *granted* that path.
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<DigitalKiwi>
gchristensen: oi that's the great wall of text article you got there
<gchristensen>
yeah it actually isn't very good :?
<simpson>
The idea really isn't hard, *but* you must turn the entire world upside-down, and then suddenly it looks as if nearly all software is completely wrongly written. :T
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<gchristensen>
"When you run an application, as far as the OS is concerned, everything the application does is done by you. Another way to put this is, an application you run can do anything you can do. This seems OK in the example we gave of Word saving your file. But what if Word did something else, like transmit the contents of your file over the internet to a server in Macedonia run by the mafia, or erase any of your
<DigitalKiwi>
is it related to RBAC
<gchristensen>
files whose names begin with a vowel, or encrypt all your files and demand payment in bitcoins to decrypt them? Well, you’re allowed to do all those things, if for some crazy reason you wanted to, so it can too."
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<gchristensen>
simpson: that is because it *is*
<simpson>
Yes, it's related to RBAC. RBAC is one of the evils.
<DigitalKiwi>
oic
<simpson>
Here's a pithy idea. In a typical (GNU/)Linux distro, packages are *installed*; in Nix, packages are *available*. A typical distro has ways to install and uninstall; Nix has ways to change the current local environment, and thus to change which packages are available *to a given context*.
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<simpson>
We'd say that package authority is ambient, in the traditional distro; you'll see the phrase "ambient authority" often. Rather than the authority to use a package being intentionally delegated, authority is smeared across the entire platform.
<gchristensen>
(I love that this community makes me think)
<DigitalKiwi>
you can always count on me to ask questions that make you think...
<gchristensen>
in this case I'm hoping simpson is making you think
<simpson>
I'm just hoping that I sound coherent~
<gchristensen>
the ambient package authority got a bit blurry, but before that (to me) yes
<DigitalKiwi>
(the puncline to my joke is i make people think "what's wrong with you?")
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<gchristensen>
I think the store path is uniquely easy to explain for Nix users, since it is easy to grasp that you're not going to *guess* /nix/store/zl47r98ihllg3694p4f26170v285g7ba-bash-interactive-4.4-p23/bin/bash, and so you can't call /nix/store/zl47r98ihllg3694p4f26170v285g7ba-bash-interactive-4.4-p23/bin/bash unless someone tells you /nix/store/zl47r98ihllg3694p4f26170v285g7ba-bash-interactive-4.4-p23/bin/bash exists
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<gchristensen>
simpson: any recommended research papers to read? ideally something not to tricky for me, as someone who has only read a few papers.
<DigitalKiwi>
ls /nix/store/*bash* ?
<DigitalKiwi>
or is that cheating
<simpson>
gchristensen: The plan interference paper I linked above should be pretty readable if you can read Java.
<gchristensen>
I can
<DigitalKiwi>
by golly i think this time it's going to work
<simpson>
DigitalKiwi: Not at all cheating! A capability system's ultimately got edges of some sort, and at those edges, we talk about the ability to *guess* a reference. On one hand, I think of Nix as transitional, because it can't do this perfectly; OTOH doing this perfectly on top of a Linux kernel might be impossible.
<DigitalKiwi>
gchristensen: guess what problem i still haven't gotten past :)
<gchristensen>
:)
<DigitalKiwi>
oooh this is it this is actually doing it
<simpson>
gchristensen: I am becoming a big fan of quick memes, though. One I like, from Mark Miller's thesis, is that *confinement* is a generalization of pocket calculator privacy: a pocket calculator can only know what you punch in with the buttons, and only export data through its LCD screen.
<DigitalKiwi>
is there a way to speed up the subsequent tries when this happens it always seems to do all of the work again and then fail on 1 or a few and then start over
<gchristensen>
'make Java itself into a pure ocap language – which you can totally do, by the way' -- eh?
<simpson>
gchristensen: There's a couple different paths that were explored. The dead one is Joe-E, which pruned Java down to a security kernel. The other one is E, a DSL in Java which has most of Java's power.
<simpson>
Yeah, that one.
<gchristensen>
ah
<gchristensen>
I wish rust didn't allow arbitrary IO :/
<DigitalKiwi>
can someone tell me what did huawei do to piss everyone off?
<simpson>
gchristensen: Ooh, that's another good meme! Imagine Haskell, Rust, or similarly pure languages (Elm?), and then imagine using them with *no unsafe hatches*.
<gchristensen>
right
<gchristensen>
Elm might actually get that right
<DigitalKiwi>
gchristensen: did you see my privmsgs
<gchristensen>
no
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<gchristensen>
I did now, but best to keep it herein chat :)
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<DigitalKiwi>
but they're listening in and recording!
<jlv>
I'm back to trying to fix my headphone sound. I've made a breakthrough! I cranked the sound way, way up on my amp and maxed out audio on computer. I can actually hear a bit of faint audio through the static of the overcranked amp. So sound is actually playing, it's just ridiculously quiet.
<samueldr>
have you looked at alsamixer with -c0, or maybe -c1 or -c2 (or as many sound cards alsa thinks you have)
<samueldr>
I have had some settings I do not know how to change using pulseaudio alone
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<jlv>
Sound is maxed out on alsamixer
<jlv>
Still too quiet to even notice
<samueldr>
can't say much more :/
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<jlv>
I notice that maxed Master and PCM in alsamxier is [dB gain: 0.00]. Is that normal?
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @marsam opened pull request #62037 → pythonPackages: update various python packages → https://git.io/fjB7d
<jlv>
li_matrix, lol, thanks. I actually had one hand ready to yank the headphone cable while I was pumping up the amp to test.
<jlv>
I "fixed" it by borrowing my friends usb dac amp.
<jlv>
Now that I think about it, I actually have a pre-amp configured on Windows because the volume for my headphones was too low there also.
<jlv>
It looks like I could configure a pre-amp for alsa. Not sure how I would do that in NixOS.
<jlv>
For now, the USB DAC works better than my terrible soundcard.
<clever>
jlv: run alsamixer in a terminal and poke about
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @volth opened pull request #62039 → perl530: init at 5.30.0 → https://git.io/fjB5q
<li_matrix>
jlv: yanking the cable is what you dont want to do; youll get a jolt since its analog signal
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<li_matrix>
just turn the amp back down quickly
<jlv>
clever: alsamixer is already maxed out. Internet searching shows that it is possible to add a pre-amp to increase that max by editing a alsa conf file. I'm not sure how to do that declaritively with nix though. It's not my top priority since the usb dac works, and I've been considering getting my own usb dac anyway.
<clever>
jlv: if you scroll thru alsamixer, you may find the preamp option in there
<clever>
i have options like front-mic-boost, and auto-mute-mode
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<jlv>
clever: I don't see anything like that. It might depend on your sound card.
<clever>
jlv: also make sure you are on the alsa device, not the pulse device, f6 to select the card
<jlv>
Ya. I'm on the sound card device.
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<jlv>
benkolera: Mostly just lousy sound card I think. I've always had issues with it.
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<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @bjornfor merged pull request #62028 → wireshark: include nghttp2 by default → https://git.io/fjBHs
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @bjornfor pushed commit from @edef1c to master « wireshark: include nghttp2 by default »: https://git.io/fjB5w
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<li_matrix>
There was a patent on internal combustion piston engine in England at the end of the 19th c. and so shitty engines were made for almost half a century. When the patents ended the affordability and power shot of by orders of magnitude. We are curretly towards the end of the monopoly on computers
<li_matrix>
shit sound cards, shit wifi chips, the list goes on. its amazing we got anywhere
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<hyper_ch>
"We are curretly towards the end of the monopoly on computers" that just made me laugh :)
<hyper_ch>
corporations patent every tiny little thing and progress
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @FRidh pushed commit from @erictapen to master « opensc: add patch for CVE-2019-6502 »: https://git.io/fjB5D
<li_matrix>
they have a life exptency
<hyper_ch>
"As of October 2012, there were 250,000 active cellphone patents to protect the specialized technology for smartphones. These patents represent one out of six active patents. There are likely more now, and many companies are compiling huge portfolios of cellphone patents."
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @FRidh pushed commit from @r-ryantm to master « texstudio: 2.12.14 -> 2.12.16 »: https://git.io/fjB5y
<li_matrix>
yea and the king was crowned to govern for all his life only to be beheaded a few years later by a revolutionary mob. im sure youll find lots of pieces of paper laying around claiming all sorts of authority
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<hyper_ch>
fail to see how that is related
<li_matrix>
intellectual property is, if anything at all, only a crime against logic. the next generation will fully assert that with molotov cocktails if they have to
<hyper_ch>
there's been a lot of generations since the Statute of Anne - yet it didn't happen
<hyper_ch>
because the normal user isn't directly affected by it
<li_matrix>
theyll burn the seat of the criminal 'law makers' (whatever the fuck that means) and they corporat thugs with em
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<li_matrix>
the next century will be the greatest shock in our history, obviously since we have never been in such toxic world with so many people. why, then, should we not expect everything tied to the current status quo not to be turned upside-down? seems like the only possible outcome. either that or we all perish clutching to our pathological self-desctructing doctrine
<MichaelRaskin>
Never underestimate the human ability to burn _half_ of the damned thing down, and the wrong half at that.
<li_matrix>
imagine how much of the planet was destroyed to make all those shitty computers?
<li_matrix>
im telling the small kids what happened, and theyre already mad as hell
<li_matrix>
pretty sure the current social orders will be as taboo as cannibalism is in our world, pretty soon too
<simpson>
li_matrix: You should finish documenting Mycelium.
<li_matrix>
well, easy to see if you understand that the current social orders are a form of cannibalism, just much more elaborate and subtle
<li_matrix>
yea I know Im just worried the world will be gone by the time im done :P
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<li_matrix>
ohh well, at least we had a crazy ride even if this whole humanity experiment ends in 4 mins
<li_matrix>
y'all need to watch the new "chernobyl" tv series! im gone closing this now
<MichaelRaskin>
Chernobyl should tell you that just replacing the current social order doesn't actually solve all the problems, no?
<li_matrix>
then imagine a major accident in a place like france or new england which would lead to a domino effect on all the neighboring reactors in the region
<MichaelRaskin>
Erm, no
<li_matrix>
"on the beach"
<MichaelRaskin>
That's not how physics works
<li_matrix>
thats a book
<li_matrix>
lol your a fucking idiot who cant possibly understand the actual laws of reality putting our whole destiny on a bad hand
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<li_matrix>
quantum physics asserts plainly that we do not understand reality
<li_matrix>
they had no model to explain the reactor exploding, yet it happened
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<li_matrix>
we dont need that much electricity anyway
<li_matrix>
we did fine without for hundreds of thousands of years
<MichaelRaskin>
Wait what? You do understand that the original designer of Chernobyl reactor refused to sign off the papers because they explained how the experiment was unsafe?
<li_matrix>
what are you arguing about?
<li_matrix>
all of our models are just that, models
<li_matrix>
not the real thing
<hyper_ch>
[08:45] <li_matrix> we did fine without for hundreds of thousands of years --> so how comes you're in here?
<li_matrix>
we dont know what can happen, just that theres a whole lot of deadly substances involved
<li_matrix>
hyper_ch: I cant even understand your question
<simpson>
li_matrix: What are *you* arguing about? I'm still waiting for you to come on-topic and explain how Mycelium expands and improves on Nix's concepts.
<li_matrix>
yea ai know we need mycelium to end this madness
<li_matrix>
ok back to work
<li_matrix>
ill just leave
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<simpson>
Useless crank. Too bad.
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<hyper_ch>
isn't mycelium that thing from star trek discovery?
<edef>
mycelium is the vegetative part of a fungus
<MichaelRaskin>
Mycelium is a structural part of fungus
<simpson>
I'm not sure. I was hoping to learn whether Fractalide was still vaporware; instead I learned that "Mycelium" is a name that some vaporware might go by.
<MichaelRaskin>
I think for the vapourware status it has to have at least some _declared_ functionality, no?
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<jlv>
Is there a recommended way to version control the configuration.nix? Or is it just cd into /etc/nixos and run git there?
<MichaelRaskin>
I prefer the dual: symlink from configuration.nix to a file in a repository
<MichaelRaskin>
But you are free to choose either approach
<MichaelRaskin>
And you can also add nixos-config=/path/to/configuration.nix to NIX_PATH
<jlv>
I was considering the symlink. Wasn't sure if there was an accepted standard or guide or somesuch.
<jlv>
Feels weird to run git from root
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, you can have a special user just to own the repository
<MichaelRaskin>
And you can also run a DVCS that actual does fsync instead of git
<teto>
i use cabal2nix but seems like we have 2 hspecs in hackage-packages.nix: hspec and hspec_2_7_1. should I alias hspec to hspec_2_7_1 in that specific case ?
<hyper_ch>
jlv: I'll just git it
<hyper_ch>
jlv: /etc/nixos doesn't need to be owned by root... I set my normal user as owner
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @abbradar pushed commit from @marius851000 to master « the-powder-toy: 93.3 -> 94.1 »: https://git.io/fjBdP
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<xantoz>
I noticed this when trying to install alacritty from nixpkgs, with a wrapper like that
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<immae>
Hello there! I am trying to build this package: https://paste.ee/p/R2TZK . When I run it with nix-shell abnf.nix and "export out=$(pwd)/foo; genericBuild", it builds fine without issue, but if I run "nix-build abnf.nix", it fails. I don’t understand why one fails and the other one works, do you have any idea?
<teto>
what decides to generate both ip_1_5_0 and ip ? both are the same package http://hackage.haskell.org/package/ip . I am trying to use them even if they are marked as broken but it causes all sorts of problems with the similar split hspec/hspec_2_7_1 :s
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<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @thefloweringash opened pull request #62042 → amazon-image.nix: add EFI support, enable by default for aarch64 → https://git.io/fjBbO
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @Lassulus pushed commit from @r-ryantm to master « smplayer: 19.1.0 -> 19.5.0 »: https://git.io/fjBb8
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<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @FRidh pushed 565 commits to staging-next: https://git.io/fjBb1
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<alexarice[m]>
has anyone managed to get the tray to work with waybar? it says you need libappindicator and so I installed the package but it doesn't seem to have changed anything
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @FRidh pushed commit from @r-ryantm to master « libpqxx: 6.4.3 -> 6.4.4 »: https://git.io/fjBbH
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<symphorien>
,libraries alexarice[m]
<{^_^}>
alexarice[m]: Don't install libraries through nix-env or systemPackages, use nix-shell instead. See https://nixos.wiki/wiki/FAQ/Libraries for details.
<symphorien>
You probably have to fix the derivation for waybar in nixpkgs if it is missing libappindicator
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<alexarice[m]>
symphorien strangely the derivation has `++ optional traySupport libdbusmenu-gtk3`
<alexarice[m]>
I might have a mess around
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<symphorien>
Is traySupport true by default ?
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<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @freepotion opened pull request #62044 → boohu: switching to termbox-go build → https://git.io/fjBNf
<alexarice[m]>
symphorien: yes
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<ambro718>
When I use Plasma with LightDM, the wallet thing does not get unlocked and I get a popup to enter a password when starting Chromium.
<ambro718>
This does not happen with SDDM.
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<FRidh>
if I am correct that's related to the PAM settings
<FRidh>
I suppose nobody bothered configuring that.
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @aanderse opened pull request #62050 → nixos/hydron: replace deprecated usage of PermissionsStartOnly → https://git.io/fjBAq
<yorick>
they deprecated permissionsstartonly?
<aanderse>
yorick: yes
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<cf6b88f>
I tried out the GnuPG-agent-as-SSH-agent option -- it didn't work, ssh-add -l can't connect to the agent. Then I removed it from configuration and added programs.ssh.startAgent = true; -- yet even after a nixos-rebuild switch + reboot, set | grep SSH gives me SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/gnupg/S.gpg-agent.ssh
<infinisil>
teto: It gets updated automatically by @peti once a day on the haskell-updates branch, which occasionally gets merged into master when it doesn't have a lot of failures
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<NickHu>
Can anyone help me fix my system? I can't rebuild because it complains about "error: getting attributes of path '/nix/store/nnzxn2wf9gwhlnka6cjyhy2d2z5zrbk2-patch-shebangs.sh': No such file or directory"
<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @Ma27 pushed commit from @sjau to release-19.03 « wireguard: restart on failure »: https://git.io/fjBpo
<ekleog>
Does anyone know how to override an emacs package from epkgs.melpaPackages.* in an overlay?
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<ekleog>
like, I think I see how to do it with (emacsPackagesNgGen emacs).overrideScope', but that works only once one has built the emacsPackagesNgGen, while I'd like to override globally
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<{^_^}>
[nixpkgs] @abbradar opened pull request #62065 → systemd-boot service: don't remove directories from EFI dir → https://git.io/fjBj7
<v0id72[m]>
Hi all, just wondering if there is some documentation for Vmware ? I have open-vm-tools installed and things are working fine. However when I neofetch - not noticing my video card. Are there some settings I need to set in a package or modulle?
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<v0id72[m]>
thanks for that. I already have that installed and working. Just remember previously in older versions of nixos I had to set other things. Maybe it has been integrated more.
<gchristensen>
an old kernel version did cause that to happen for a bit
<ambro718>
the kernel on the machine is 4.9.171
<ambro718>
Oh I'm quite sure it has to do with me trying to switch the system from 32bit to 64bit
<ambro718>
though it's an interesting presentation of that problem
<ambro718>
well it worked the other way :)
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<ambro718>
is there a way to install a 32-bit system but 64-bit kernel?
<clever>
ambro718: why do you want to do that?
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<ambro718>
I somehow managed to move a 64-bit system to be a 32-bit system, now I can't go back because the kernel can't run the 64-bit perl needed by the activate script.
<clever>
ambro718: ah, ive solved that before
<clever>
ambro718: i just manually ran the 32bit perl against the 64bit activation script
<clever>
so it ignores the #! line
<infinisil>
Wouldn't rebooting work?
<clever>
ambro718: if the 64bit stuff is still in grub, you can just reboot and select an older version
<clever>
if you have console access...
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<ambro718>
managed to fix it by booting an older config, thanks
<ambro718>
running the perl script by hand didn't work because it then itself tries to run another perl as part of something
<marek>
is it because upstream has two interpreters in the header?
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<cf6b88f>
$ locate .gz | grep man| grep freopen -- says I have a manpage for freopen at /nix/store/pkdhg2jcpv71hxdgif2yv2nsmii8wh74-man-pages-5.00/share/man/man3/freopen.3.gz -- yet when I do nix-shell -p manpages --command 'man freopen', it fails to find it. What's wrong?
<clever>
cf6b88f: nix-shell doesnt setup MANPATH
<greenerworld[m]>
sooo, who can I poke for my 3 day old PR?
<clever>
,pr greenerworld[m]
<{^_^}>
greenerworld[m]: 0. Sorry. 1. If you complain about PR being in limbo, always provide a number («I have an unmerged PR (#23924)…»), bot will print PR title and it might bring you an impulse-merge. 2. Please look up who commits similar work and ping these people (or request-review), keeping up with all the PRs is not really possible.
<cf6b88f>
clever: Will it work if I just install it globally?
<clever>
just add the path of that to your imports list, and then flip on an enable from lines 24-26
<das_j>
Wow, fancy
<das_j>
Let's see how it'll perform
<clever>
line 36 will add qemu binaries to make it all work
<clever>
line 45 will configure nix, so that it believes you can run those things natively
<clever>
and line 38 will setup binfmt-misc
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<das_j>
Ah, the overlay is what I was looking for
<das_j>
Sucks that nixpkgs doesn't have a static qemu
<clever>
it 90% works with a dynamic qemu
<das_j>
What's qemu-wrap for
<clever>
the problem is that ldd functions by setting env vars, and then ld.so will print the deps, rather then execute a thing
<das_j>
?
<hyper_ch>
gchristensen: it got merged !?! :)
<clever>
so when you use arm ldd, on an arm binary, the dynamic qemu prints its deps out!
<clever>
das_j: thats to deal with argv[0] issues
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<das_j>
Ah, I see
<das_j>
I'll check it out once my server's load is back below 50
<das_j>
thanks a lot
<das_j>
clever++
<{^_^}>
clever's karma got increased to 133
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<wucke13>
How would one do the uefi boot partition thing with a software raid 1 setup?
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<ilya-fedin>
Hello, I have a problem with python virtualenv, at the wheel packaging stage, it displays `ValueError: ZIP does not support timestamps before 1980` error, apparently, he doesn’t like the timestamp files from /nix/store, how can I get around/solve this problem?
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<philipp[m]>
Yes but I need the path to the nix store because open_basedir blocks symlink traversal to disallowed files. Of course, I could add /nix/store to open_basedir but I wouldn't like that.
<philipp[m]>
Yeah, it seems like there is no way to access this in the way I'd need.
<clever>
it sounds like you want to use pkgs.runCommand to create a single directory, that has all involved files in it
<clever>
and then point open_basedir to that
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<philipp[m]>
I think what I really want to do is clean up that service a little and add the open_basedir option to the pool configuration that's in the same file anyway. :-)
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<averell>
As a user, I endorse this plan :)
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