<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] berdario opened pull request #29758: gcj: use from gcc6 (master...upgrade-gcj) https://git.io/vdTPd
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] berdario opened pull request #29759: Make Rhino not depend on GCJ anymore (master...drop-gcj-from-rhino) https://git.io/vdTXY
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] berdario opened pull request #29760: hydra-eval-faliures: Print Dependency failures as well as direct failures and update to Python3 (master...update-hydra-eval-failures) https://git.io/vdTXc
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<Ankhers>
disasm: Did you see my message about the BEAM ticket?
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<disasm>
Ankhers: yup, I forwarded that to my coworker :)
<disasm>
gchristensen: nope, garbage collection got the best of me
<gchristensen>
damn :(
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<Ankhers>
gchristensen: Still need Erlang SSL help?
<disasm>
oh well, that'll teach me to clone my pills to my ~/scratch directory... Had like 100 some builds from debugging and decided it was time to cleanup and completely forgot that's where I had put pills initially.
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<gchristensen>
Ankhers: yeah, but I can't share any code b/c I've just been using erl :$ I've spent the past few hours futzing with rebar3-open and reading LYSE until I can share a reproducible failure
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<Ankhers>
What was it you were trying to do that you were having SSL cert issues?
<gchristensen>
in short, this should fail to connect because the SSL certificate doesn't match the host: amqp_connection:start(#amqp_params_network{username = <<"foobar">>,password= <<"foobar">> ,host="channels.nix.gsc.io",port=5671,ssl_options=[{verify, verify_peer}, {cacertfile, "/etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt"}]}).
<gchristensen>
and it doesn't, it just says the username/password is invalid (but the ssl failure would come before the user/pass is found to be invalid)
<gchristensen>
ps: you can try that yourself, there really is an amqp server listening at channels.nix.gsc.io
<disasm>
oh wow... it looks like you have to implement your own verify function verify_fun
<gchristensen>
that is a difficult specification to write a function for
<disasm>
is it just me, or is it a major security problem that the client will take any valid certificate?
<disasm>
by default that is
<gchristensen>
I guess it depends if you're using SSL b/c it looks good or b/c you care who you're talking to? :)
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<gchristensen>
maybe they expect me to run my own PKI system, and yuck
<disasm>
I would file an issue on the client library
<disasm>
although I don't know enough erlang to write a PoC to attach to the issue :)
<gchristensen>
I'm going to hold off until Ankhers gets back to me, then mail to the rabbitmq list
<clever>
disasm: i remember something about the curl library, the enable openssl flag works backwards from what is obvious, and defaults to being secure
<clever>
disasm: so one program that was trying to turn on all the security, was actually turning it all off
<clever>
disasm: and because they never tried to mitm themself, they never confirmed if the hostname verification actually did anything, and it shipped
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<disasm>
clever: wow :)
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<clever>
disasm: any time you work with openssl, try to mitm yourself, and confirm it actualy rejects invalid certs
<clever>
disasm: also usefull is burp proxy, which makes such mitm stuff trivial
<gchristensen>
burp is great
<clever>
disasm: burp can also generate a custom ca, that you can trust OS wide on ios/android, allowing you to mitm any app
<gchristensen>
I'm glad I mitm'd myself here, I'd have never known
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] peterhoeg pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdTDW
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 4f25b7b Peter Hoeg: open-vm-tools: 10.1.0 -> 10.1.10
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] peterhoeg pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdTD4
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 4c496c0 Peter Hoeg: pywbem: make the tests pass again with patch from upstream
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] peterhoeg pushed 1 new commit to release-17.09: https://git.io/vdTDB
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.09 6540bc5 Peter Hoeg: pywbem: make the tests pass again with patch from upstream...
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] peterhoeg pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdTDo
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 0353ddc Peter Hoeg: pywbem: changed hash
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] peterhoeg pushed 1 new commit to release-17.09: https://git.io/vdTD6
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.09 e075c65 Peter Hoeg: pywbem: changed hash...
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<disasm>
what would cause qmake to put the temp build directory into the rpath?
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<maurer>
Anyone know what the nixos configuration would be to adjust how big their tempdir is supposed to be?
<maurer>
systemd's created temp dir for my normal user is too small for some of my usage
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<disasm>
maurer: you mean the /run/user tmp dir?
<maurer>
disasm: yes
<disasm>
maurer: maybe config.boot.runSize defined here? nixos/modules/tasks/filesystems.nix
<disasm>
maurer: which I think would be just boot.runSize in configuration.nix
<maurer>
I'm 90% sure that's not that's not it
<maurer>
because that's being mounted on /run
<maurer>
it mounts _another_ tmpfs on /run/user/1000/
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<Nobabs27>
whats the general code of conduct if a question doesn't get responded to? Like, how long should you wait before re-sending?
<disasm>
maurer: ah... yeah git grep and I'm not finding it, sorry.
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<disasm>
Nobabs27: typically if I don't get an answer in the evening I'll ask in the morning or vice-versa. Definitely wouldn't try spamming once an hour till someone responds, and if no one answers in 24 hours, I wouldn't keep asking it, it probably means no one knows the answer off-hand.
<Nobabs27>
cool
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<disasm>
maurer: tada: services.logind.extraConfig You can increase it by setting RuntimeDirectorySize
<maurer>
Thanks
<disasm>
Nobabs27: can you give some more details? How'd you install cyberfox? I'm guessing there's a bug in the derivation.
<disasm>
I did a `git grep` for cyberfox and not seeing it in nixpkgs
<Nobabs27>
its not a derivation tho
<Nobabs27>
its just a executable
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<disasm>
Nobabs27: ah, so typically when you download a binary, you need to `patchelf` the binary to get the right libraries
<Nobabs27>
yes but this was listed as an alternative solution
<Nobabs27>
oh wait I get it
<Nobabs27>
but still
<Nobabs27>
how can the patchelf work if nix store paths change?
<disasm>
Nobabs27: again, typically you'd create a derivation to download the file, extract it, patchelf it and put it in the store.
<Nobabs27>
yes but doesn't patchelf require you specifying a nix store path that would change?
<Nobabs27>
mk
<Nobabs27>
"${stdenv.cc.libc}" how do you figure out which variable that is?
<Nobabs27>
like say it isnt libc your after but some other lib
<disasm>
you mean like ${pango.out}/lib? pango is the attribute of the derivation in nixpkgs. .out probably isn't needed there, .out is the default derivation output (.dev would be needed though)
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Infinisil opened pull request #29761: xwinwrap: init at 4 (master...xwinwrap) https://git.io/vdTSF
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<Nobabs27>
so I could just say ${libdl.so.2}/lib and be chill?
<disasm>
Nobabs27: in that case it's probly more likely ${glibc.out}/lib/
<Nobabs27>
oh so you mean adding that takes car of the other stuff?
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<disasm>
I gotta head out, but if you know the attribute for the path you need (what you'd pass to nix-shell -p or nix-env -iA), it will be ${attr}/lib. If a derivation has multiple outputs, that could be in .dev (or .lib sometimes) which would be ${attr.dev}/path/to/libraries, etc...
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<jack[m]>
So.. radicale 2.x ablated a whole bunch of code into plugins.. And the plugins depend on the radicale derivation.. Who do I wrapper the radicale derivation to inject the new plugins into PYTHONPATH?
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<disasm>
globin: do you use vagrant from nixos (I saw you're a maintainer)? If so, have you gotten it to work with libvirt?
<vaibhavsagar>
are prerelease AMIs a thing?
<vaibhavsagar>
for 17.09 I mean
* jack[m]
settles on wrapProgram.
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<kiloreux>
Assuming I mount /nix/ and ~/.nix-profile into docker container as volumes. How can I use them or set them up to be able to use binaries fully inside the docker container?
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<fearlessKim[m]>
any reason nixops doesn't use libvirt python bindings ?
<fearlessKim[m]>
it would seem more reliable than parsing the process output :s
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] bjornfor pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdTdZ
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 32e4e2c Kai Harries: libvirt: Add qemu to runtime closure...
<hyper_ch>
etu: well, I manage on my notebook to f*** u* btrfs within 2 weeks of operation
<etu>
hyper_ch: Impressive :)
<hyper_ch>
tried it a few times
<etu>
hyper_ch: I had one laptop where btrfs went inte readonly mode 30 seconds after boot
<etu>
every boot
<hyper_ch>
:)
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<etu>
I wiped the disk, made a new partition table, new luks, new btrfs
<cmcdragonkai1>
schoppenhauer: one way to apparently fix zfs fragmentation at full disk, is to always double your capacity and then do a "copying collection"
<etu>
new install
<etu>
same thing happened
<cmcdragonkai1>
copy everything to the new disk (no fragmentation) and make the old disk empty
<hyper_ch>
well, feel free to use btrfs :)
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<etu>
yeah, don't let our failure stories stop you. You have people in here who lost more data on ext4 than btrfs. So if it works for you, that's great :p
<hyper_ch>
one might be inclined to say that when you have backups, you can't lose data ;)
<schoppenhauer>
cmcdragonkai1: always doubling the capacity is a bit … much
<hyper_ch>
doubling capacity doens't really help
<hyper_ch>
just updated my 512gb ssd to 1tb on my notebook like 3-4 months ago
<hyper_ch>
now I'm down to 90 free gigs again
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<cmcdragonkai1>
schoppenhauer: it's basically similar to many memory management in varios programming languages
<cmcdragonkai1>
...runtimes
<cmcdragonkai1>
hyper_ch: how are you down to 90 gigs after doubling capacity without first using all of it? also you have to manually do this copying collection method
<hyper_ch>
cmcdragonkai1: I was just saying that no matter how much space you hava avialble, within a short period of time you'll run out again
<cmcdragonkai1>
hyper_ch: well yea, but storage is cheap nowadays isn't it?
<etu>
cmcdragonkai1: Depends on how much you need
<etu>
I mean, my 12TiB is full
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<cmcdragonkai1>
etu: the more you buy the cheaper it gets!
<cmcdragonkai1>
unit costs, mass production, supply deals... etc
<etu>
Yeah, I would want to buy 4x10TiB Seagate Ironwolf drives
<hyper_ch>
the more you buy, the more it socsts
<etu>
To replace my 4x4TiB drives
<hyper_ch>
it costs
<hyper_ch>
price per unit goes down, but overall you still pay more
<cmcdragonkai1>
hyper_ch: what is the alternative? that the overall price goes down as you get more?
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<hyper_ch>
but it's still wrong the more you buy the cheaper it gets
<cmcdragonkai1>
hyper_ch: you obviously knew what i meant when i said the more you buy, the cheaper it gets
<hyper_ch>
which isn't true
<etu>
cmcdragonkai1: Why buy one when you can have two for twice the price? ;)
<hyper_ch>
I know that quote
<hyper_ch>
Contact IIRC
<etu>
yep :D
<hyper_ch>
great movie
<etu>
Indeed
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<Infinisil>
Umm, how is the state of android studio on nixos?
<Infinisil>
Installing android-studio and starting it opens a blank screen, clicking around a bit it complains the sdk is missing, so I'm also installing androidsdk now
<hyper_ch>
you develop for android?
<schoppenhauer>
hm.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] nlewo opened pull request #29765: dockerTools.examples.nix: set NIX_PAGER=cat environment variable (master...pr/docker-nix-pager-env-var) https://git.io/vdTpL
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<Infinisil>
hyper_ch: I need to for university..
<hyper_ch>
university teaches android? oO
<Infinisil>
The course is Distributed Systems, and I guess we'll go something related on android
<Infinisil>
I don't like it, but I don't have a choice
<Infinisil>
I thought this would be the perfect oppurtunity to demonstrate the power of nixos, but nope, blank screen, not a good first impression
<viric>
etu: the bcachefs thing claims to be stable
<etu>
viric: Well, yes and no. They claim that it works. But they also states that they don't want to claim it's done until all features are in place so they don't promise that they won't change the disk format.
<viric>
etu: so, it might be not that easy to update to a newer version
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] rickynils pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/vdTp9
<etu>
viric: Exactly, since they don't make promises with a stable disk format, they don't make any migration tools (I think) either. So you basically have to make a new filesystem with a new version. Or something. But they also say that they haven't found the need to change the format for quite a long while.
<viric>
ok
<sphalerite>
gchristensen: thanks for helping lejonet, I was having the same issue :D
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<etu>
viric: I like their attitude to their development on that front. Then it will probably be thought through when it might be ready for public beta testing :)
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<keane>
hey guys, I've a question. I've tried to search for spotify package on nixos.org/nixos/packages and it wasn't there, but when I added it in the config file and upgraded, it's installed succesfully. how does it work? where can I find a complete list of packages?
<viric>
etu: Do you know of any forecast for stabilisation claim?
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<etu>
viric: No, I think they go by the plan: "when it's ready"
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<sphalerite>
keane: it's nonfree, or unfree in nixpkgs terminology
<sphalerite>
So it isn't listed on packages.html
<lejonet>
sphalerite: with shells? :P
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<sphalerite>
That confuses a lot of people (because it is confusing!) but I don't think people have agreed to a decent solution yet
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<keane>
sphalerite: oh well. can I see those packages somewhere? I know you can on github, but it's a little bit tedious
<sphalerite>
lejonet: yep, in exactly the same boat as you — I asked about it a couple of times in the past few days but at the wrong times apparently
<sphalerite>
keane: I find nox to be the most convenient way to search for packages
<lejonet>
sphalerite: glad I could help by asking at an more oppertune time ^^
<sphalerite>
lejonet: with LDAP and everything. Although I'm not using sssd or whatever it's called I think
<lejonet>
sphalerite: yeah, its not an uncommon situation to be in
<keane>
sphalerite: aw, thank you!
<keane>
also, what's the preferred way of installing packages - putting them in the config file, or doing nix-env -iA?
<lejonet>
and I think that is why having some type of simple rewrite functionality somewhere would be nice, pam would be the most logical place imo (could happen there exist a pam module for it already, I haven't checked)
<etu>
keane: I prefer to have it in config files and sync between different systems with git
<etu>
keane: To have the control over everything with git
<keane>
etu: I see. thanks a lot
<lejonet>
maybe similar to AuthorizedKeysCommand that SSH have :)
<lejonet>
sphalerite: that wouldn't be a bad thing either, but iirc nss is "only" a resolving and reading system, so maybe it would be a violation of its intended purpose?
<sphalerite>
etu: I use nix-env, but with an expression that I have written to a file and keep in git so that I can easily reproduce my environment
<lejonet>
sphalerite: I guess tho you could chalk this up as a resolving problem tho, now that I think about it
<sphalerite>
lejonet: tbh I have very little idea of what I'm talking about :p
<lejonet>
sphalerite: I'm mainly just thinking out through my fingers anyway so :P
<sphalerite>
etu: so I clone https://github.com/lheckemann/dotfiles and then run `nix-env -f dotfiles/graphical.nix -ir` to remove everything and install exactly what's in graphical.nix
<sphalerite>
err sorry, meant to highlight keane there ^
<etu>
sphalerite: Cool :)
<lejonet>
sphalerite: but having the functionality in nss might be an idea, tho it would be hard to realize, due to nss modules not stacking like pam modules do, but have an xor-like behaviour, you can't really hand over the output of one module into another iirc
* lejonet
wanders off to search for pam rewrite modules...
<keane>
sphalerite: I see. I'll go with configuration.nix though, it seems easier
<sphalerite>
etu: oh yeah, I want to move to home-manager too at some point
<sphalerite>
keane: sure, whatever you prefer. I personally just like to keep the software that I use separate from "OS functionality" — services and such — for the config to be more portable
<lejonet>
home-manager seems like a really cool thing, if I switch my desktop and/or laptop to nixos I might use it but iirc nixos doesn't work well with non-nixos created binaries
<sphalerite>
Of course you can achieve the same thing by writing a file which you then include in the configuration.nix using an import (of either kind)
<keane>
yeah
<Infinisil>
Android studio on nixos is unusable for me -.-
<Infinisil>
I'll open an issue, but damn..
<sphalerite>
lejonet: yeah they require patching or an FHS user environment
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<sphalerite>
Infinisil: did you see jack asking about radicale earlier? I think you know stuff about radicale?
<sphalerite>
and yeah, the state of android stuff in general is unfortunate. Nixos's sub-optimal support for it is just a symptom
<lejonet>
sphalerite: :/ I do a lot of meandering and poking on odd binaries at times, I guess I should setup some type of container env for that tho... :P
<sphalerite>
the whole "the binary distribution of this SDK is nonfree even though the sources are free" sucks, it's near impossible to build the SDK yourself, and stuff
<lejonet>
But we'll see, if I can get the server I'm working at now, with nixos, up to speed and into the DC, I can move most of that meandering to a virtualised env instead
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<Infinisil>
sphalerite: I did just fix radicale and opened a PR yesterday
<sphalerite>
In the process of migrating to a new server machine for a variety of services (previously running on a debian machine), I also migrated a debian lxc container to the new (nixos) machine
<Infinisil>
I mean android studio almost works now, it's just that i get a white (but functional, I think) window
<lejonet>
sphalerite: I intend to test out nix-container for containerisation of services on the machine I'm working on :P
<sphalerite>
Infinisil: jack's question was about actually using 2.x: So.. radicale 2.x ablated a whole bunch of code into plugins.. And the plugins depend on the radicale derivation.. Who do I wrapper the radicale derivation to inject the new plugins into PYTHONPATH? * jack settles on wrapProgram.
<sphalerite>
lejonet: that's better of course because nix :D
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<Infinisil>
sphalerite: I see, didn't see that, probably override propagatedBuildInputs would've been better and fixing it, I might take a look at it later
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<sphalerite>
Infinisil: which nixpkgs version, for your android studio issues?
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<sphalerite>
I last tried it back in December with 16.09, it more or less worked back then
<Infinisil>
sphalerite: I tried with nixos-unstable first
<Infinisil>
in which i got only white windows
* sphalerite
will try 17.03 just now
<Infinisil>
then I checked out the nixos-17.03 version, in which I got a few non-white window
<Infinisil>
s
<Infinisil>
I guess I'll try out 16.09 too
<sphalerite>
I don't need to do android development, and I hope it stays that way, but maybe at some point I will need to :/
<sphalerite>
unrelated, zfs snapshots and clones are awesome
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<Infinisil>
+1 to that
<Infinisil>
Haven't used clones though
<sphalerite>
I'm doing it for the first time just now
<sphalerite>
I want to see if I can move the lxc container to using systemd-nspawn instead
<sphalerite>
it's got several hundred gigs of data in it, but that's not a problem :D
<Infinisil>
nice :D
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<Infinisil>
Oh, and I might run out of battery soon, they don't have many sockets here..
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<hyper_ch>
lxc... kubernetes.... all those new hip things....
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<chpatrick>
hiya
<chpatrick>
do you know when 17.09 might be ready?
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<hyper_ch>
it isn't ready yet? unstable is already 18.03 IIRC
<Infinisil>
It's not released yet, but the branch exists already, something like release candidates I'd think
<goibhniu>
There's a release party on Friday, so I guess it will be ready by then :D
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] peti pushed 5 new commits to master: https://git.io/vdkvX
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 1d73878 Peter Simons: hackage2nix: update list of broken builds
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 69c4f03 Peter Simons: haskell-accelerate-blas: don't distribute via Hydra...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 92576b7 Peter Simons: haskell: provide a meta package "unbuildable" to fix evaluation of Win32
<keja>
hi guys, I'm confused about the packages a bit. I'm trying to install discord, and it installs the 0.1 version - even though on git there's a 0.2 version
<ixxie>
keja: the latest version released is usually not the latest one packaged
<ixxie>
keja: packages have to be updated too, and this takes time
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<ixxie>
keja: if you are on the stable channel, there may be a newer version of this package available on the unstable package
<nixy>
So, how bad is it that secrets from NixOS modules are stored in the Nix store
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Mic92 opened pull request #29768: networkd: also load builtin modules (master...networkd) https://git.io/vdkmy
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<nixy>
I'm considering running a gitlab instance on either NixOS or debian, but having to store secrets in the Nix store has me wondering what the best move is
<makefu>
nixy: depends on your use case. there was an issue which tried to provide a solution for most modules (provide a file instead of the password itself)
<nixy>
I know there is an RFC/issue for it, but my understanding was that everything there was a WIP
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<keja_>
hm, I'm getting an error now. "error: file ‘nixos-unstable’ was not found in the Nix search path", I've done everything as in the cheatsheet
<keja_>
my channels are named nixos and nixos-unstable, if that's any important
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to gcc-7: https://git.io/vdkYl
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/gcc-7 e8bd410 Vladimír Čunát: Merge branch 'master' into gcc-7
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<keja>
I can modify the config, I just can't do unstable.package
<keja>
line causing the trouble: `unstable = import <nixos-unstable>`
<sphalerite>
idk what niksnut thinks of this idea, but it's something I have run into a few times in the past myself. I'll open PRs.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nix] lheckemann opened pull request #1578: nix-channel: remind user to update after adding (master...channel-update-remind-master) https://git.io/vdk3X
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nix] lheckemann opened pull request #1579: nix-channel: remind user to update after adding (1.11-maintenance...channel-update-remind) https://git.io/vdk3y
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<sphalerite>
My guess is they'll just sit there and rot, but hey, it's worth a shot.
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] fpletz pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdknZ
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master cd501e3 Dario Bertini: gcj: use from gcc6
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<sphalerite>
Yaniel: does for me
<sphalerite>
Although it doesn't activate immediately so I still have the kernel/EFI console at the point where I have to type my encryption passphrase
<sphalerite>
(this is on 17.09 beta)
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdkc3
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 4429559 Joachim Fasting: mg: 20161005 -> 20170828
<disasm>
I was able to create a centos 7 "machine" and use systemd-boot to boot and login as root/root. I also declared it in configuration.nix like is shown here: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/25097 and rebuild switch works just fine. How do I actually start this container and login to it now? :)
<disasm>
Infinisil: you and me both :) I'm using i3 currently, but have big plans to try sway with wayland one day when I have some free time.
<Infinisil>
disasm: Ohh yes same, am kinda sick of X11 already, and I only started using linux like half a year ago
<disasm>
Infinisil: wow! half a year ago? Impressive, would have never guessed you were that new to linux.
<ij>
Is nixpkgs-unstable a copy of git's master
<Infinisil>
I learned a ton since then :). I kinda get really into it once something interests me enough
<disasm>
I started using nixos as a desktop system half a year ago (have had it on my personal server for 3-4 years or so), but have been using linux since the mid 90's :)
<Infinisil>
that's like when I was born heh (1995)
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<disasm>
You would have been 2 :) 1997 would have been the first time I gave it a try (my mom was not too happy when she found out I wiped the entire disk and lost everything on the computer)
<Infinisil>
ij: Nope, nixpkgs-unstable is a channel that only gets new versions when all (/most?) packages build I think
* etu
has been using different linux systems for desktops and servers for 11 years, and nixos for about half a year and only on desktop (and a bit on a vps) so far :)
<ij>
Infinisil, Oh, intricate!
<Infinisil>
disasm: Heh, ever lost data again though?
<Infinisil>
etu: Nice :D
<ij>
Infinisil, I'm '93. I feel young, but you're even younger! :D
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<disasm>
never that much, lol. From that point on I learned deleting all partitions in fdisk can't be undone, lol
<ij>
I've found lost partitions a couple of times.
<Infinisil>
It can't? I'd think it can if you made some backup of the partitioning table or so
<etu>
Depends if you've overwritten data or not
<ij>
You can find blocks that look like filesystem headers.
<ij>
^ Yup.
<Infinisil>
Hmm, and it could be that fdisk itself overwrites some data when writing the partitioning table?
<disasm>
Infinisil: well, if you don't do anything *after* removing the disk. But once you delete the partition, recreate it as type 83 and mkfs.ext2 the disk, yeah, it's pretty lost.
<etu>
Infinisil: Only the table
<etu>
But not the data on the rest of the disk
<etu>
I've have reduced size of luks partitions. That was exciting.
<ij>
How do I find the nixpkgs that's being used right now?
<disasm>
etu: nice :)
<etu>
First make the filesystem smaller, then tell luks it's smaller. Then delete the partition. Then create a partition that starts and ends at the exact right places.
<disasm>
ij: are you asking how do you get the latest master of nixpkgs?
<Infinisil>
I see
<ij>
No, no. I just `nix-channel --update`d. I want to see the path in /nix/store that's now the current nixpkgs that will be given as an argument to builds.
<octe>
how do i do that, but for a service? can i refer to the unstable service?
<octe>
unstable.services.foo.enable or something...
<Infinisil>
octe: That doesn't work for services
<grw>
clever: yes, i have- is that bad?
<clever>
grw: very
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<clever>
grw: when nix-daemon picks a member of the nixbld group to do the build under, it will `kill -9` every process in the user, then start a build under that user
<octe>
so it's not possible to use a service from another channel?
<Infinisil>
octe: It might be possible to import it actually
<Infinisil>
Hmm, probably not
<clever>
octe: for new services, you can add its module to imports, for pre-existing services, you have 2 options
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<grw>
clever: thx, makes sense. so i need to remove nixbld and nixos-rebuild as root to recover my system?
<octe>
yes it's a pre existing
<clever>
grw: yeah
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<clever>
octe: plan a: only upgrade the package via packageOverrides, use the old service
<Infinisil>
I usually checkout the newer files in my nixpkgs checkout
<sphalerite>
Infinisil: go team '95!
<clever>
octe: plan b, copy the module, rename the service, add it to imports, enable the new one (and packageOverride it)
<octe>
that might work, since i'm mainly after a new version
<clever>
octe: plan c, clone nixpkgs and merge the 2 versions
<octe>
perhaps i could just override the version number it would build with?
<grw>
clever: that worked. great guess :)
<octe>
but that means no binary i guess
<Infinisil>
sphalerite: \o/
<clever>
octe: if you override the package via nixpkgs.config.packageOverrides, the nixos service will use it
<disasm>
schoppenhauer: fyi, I use btrfs here on my laptop and my server in the office. I personally wouldn't recommend using lvm with btrfs, you can, but really there isn't much point. subvolumes fill the void for LVM (and btrfs can span multiple disks)
<clever>
octe: then you can just do what the wiki you linked said to override it
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<clever>
grw: for some reason, ive memorized that part of the nix source, lol
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<7ITABNC14>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vdk8i
<7ITABNC14>
nixpkgs/master 02d9d40 Elis Hirwing: testssl.sh: init at 2.9.5-1...
<7ITABNC14>
nixpkgs/master e23973f Joachim F: Merge pull request #29694 from etu/testssl-sh...
<Infinisil>
schoppenhauer: Why are blockwise backups important for VirtualBox? I'd think as long as the bits are the same after a recovery it wouldn't matter
<schoppenhauer>
Infinisil: backups over network … with rsync, you will always have to send the whole image, if only a small part changes.
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<Infinisil>
Ahh I see
<schoppenhauer>
having something like "lvm send" would be nice
<sphalerite>
schoppenhauer: rsync with --partial should only transfer the changed parts…
<schoppenhauer>
I'm also thinking of writing a fuse filesystem that chops files into chunks of a few megbyte
<avn>
schoppenhauer: looks interesting, it will allow use torrents on zfs (I think)
<sphalerite>
schoppenhauer: actually I think --inplace is what you'd want
<schoppenhauer>
sphalerite: no.
<sphalerite>
no? What's wrong with it?
<schoppenhauer>
sphalerite: partial just allows to continue partially saved files
<sphalerite>
yes but --inplace
<sphalerite>
"This option is useful for transferring large files with block-based changes or appended data,"
<disasm>
schoppenhauer: yeah, that was nice... when I had to send my macbook in for repairs, I just ran btrfs send /home | ssh root@remote-server "btrfs receive /home" and it was like I was on the same computer, only slower.
<schoppenhauer>
sphalerite: how is rsync supposed to know which blocks have changed?
<clever>
schoppenhauer: i think it will interactively talk to the remote rsync, and both sides will hash each block and exchange hashes
<sphalerite>
schoppenhauer: it will have to read the whole file on both ends, but it doesn't have to transfer everything
<clever>
schoppenhauer: but instead of | ssh, you have to tell rsync to run itself over ssh, and it opens a 2-way channel
<schoppenhauer>
clever, sphalerite: I doubt that, because hashes would make it prone to collisions. it couldn't guarantee anymore that everything has been saved.
<sphalerite>
schoppenhauer: there is such a thing as a hash function where the likelihood of accidental collisions is negligible…
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<clever>
schoppenhauer: a: `zfs set dedup=verify` so you cant get collisions (dedup is optional as well), b: zfs send | ssh zfs receive
<Mic92>
schoppenhauer: by default it uses time + modification time and then a rolling checksum
<clever>
schoppenhauer: and if your using vm images a lot, dedup can help
<clever>
schoppenhauer: dedup is expensive, but if you know there is going to be duplicates (vm images), you can limit the dedup to just that region
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<schoppenhauer>
clever: I know about zfs
<clever>
sphalerite: oops, wrong name, also, i recently turned dedup back on, for just /var/lib/docker/
<schoppenhauer>
clever: I used it some time ago
<Infinisil>
clever: How much does dedup save?
<Infinisil>
for that folder
<clever>
Infinisil: depends on how much duplication you have
<clever>
Infinisil: for docker, its currently storing 3 times what the size states
<clever>
[root@amd-nixos:~]# zfs get compressratio amd/docker
<clever>
amd/docker compressratio 3.01x -
<clever>
amd/docker written 2.00G -
<clever>
amd/docker logicalused 5.62G -
<Infinisil>
Well that's something at least. Doesn't seem like it's worth it thoug
<Infinisil>
unless the compute power : disk space ration is super high
<ij>
Can variable names have dashes(-)?
<Infinisil>
ij: yes
<disasm>
ij: yes as long as they don't start with one
<clever>
Infinisil: the cost of dedup is more in terms of ram usage
<Infinisil>
ij: You can check this kind of stuff in nix-repl, really useful
<clever>
Infinisil: it has to have the hashtable in ram or writes to the dedup'd volume are very slow
<ij>
Yeah, just remembered that and tried it out. :(
<ij>
:)*
<Infinisil>
clever: Ah right
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<clever>
Infinisil: i think there is also a cost when files are deleted, it has to decrement the refcounts, and see if the block is really free or not
<clever>
though i'm not sure how snapshots deal with refcounts
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] NeQuissimus pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdkRN
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master b13a6d5 Tim Steinbach: linux: 4.14-rc1 -> 4.14-rc2
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<Infinisil>
I thought zfs was a bit slow with deletion in general
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<woffs>
don't use zfs dedup. Working with ZFS for ~10y and tried it. Don't do it unless you have very high dedup ratio (say 20x) and a small pool.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] peterhoeg pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdk0r
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 23ef826 Peter Hoeg: pywbem: hash keeps changing - why? Embed the patch
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<clever>
woffs: in my case, i plan to just nuke all of /var/lib/docker when i'm done with it
<clever>
woffs: i also wasnt entirely sure how good of a ratio i would have gotten on docker
<woffs>
you can simulate with zdb -S
<Infinisil>
woffs: Have you used dedup purposefully then?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] peterhoeg pushed 1 new commit to release-17.09: https://git.io/vdk0M
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.09 f5af8a7 Peter Hoeg: pywbem: hash keeps changing - why? Embed the patch...
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<clever>
woffs: can that be limited to a single dataset?
<avn>
woffs: you start understanding it, only when ddt drops on your head
* avn
still have remains of ddt
<clever>
avn: same, on several machines
<avn>
I haven't any ideas, how to figure out what files still in it
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<Infinisil>
What the hell linux
<Infinisil>
Why is my xmobar suddenly almost completely transparent
<ij>
Are the contents of ~/.nix-defexpr/channels the default arguments for the file I'm "nix-build"ing?
<clever>
Infinisil: nope
<clever>
ij: the default argument for nix-build is default.nix in the current directory
<clever>
ij: and '<nixpkgs>' makes it look in $NIX_PATH
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<Infinisil>
Ah, turns out it was xwinwrap
<ij>
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. The function that is in the default.nix, which is called upon «nix-build», — does it get channels/ contents as the default arguments?
<clever>
ij: which function
<Infinisil>
nix-build takes in a derivation, not a function
<clever>
Infinisil: nix-build and --arg play together in a very weird and unexpected way
<Infinisil>
clever: Yeah you showed this to me once :D
<gchristensen>
LnL: do you use rabbitmq with SSL certificates? or just use rabbitmq?
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<Ankhers>
Don
<Ankhers>
Don't do that :(
<hodapp>
should I change my window manager to something more keyboard-friendly because I just moved and haven't set up my desk yet and don't have a good place to use my mouse?
<gchristensen>
why not, Ankhers?
<ij>
clever, Shouldn't default.nix's top level value have "a function that returns a derivation" instead of just "a function"?
<Ankhers>
Because CVE's are bad...
<gchristensen>
Ankhers: so is advertising your product to validate SSL certificates, and not actually validating SSL certificates
<Ankhers>
Of course I am joking. If there is an actual issue, one would need to be filed.
<hodapp>
gchristensen: who's doing that?
<Ankhers>
rabbit
<Ankhers>
Or maybe Erlang.
<clever>
ij: its usually a functon that returns a derivation, but you need to run callPackage on that usually, to supply all arguments
<gchristensen>
I can't say they are or aren't doing it, or if the problem is PEBCAK
<hodapp>
oh, way to remind me that I have no chair set up right now
<hodapp>
JERK
<Ankhers>
Reading through that email chain it sounds like it should work.
<gchristensen>
I'm going to message you in private, Ankhers, because I'm a bit grumpy about it :P
<Ankhers>
lol ok
<ij>
clever, So there usually are nix-buildable files and files that are buildable by supplying them to callPackage?
<clever>
ij: yeah
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<ij>
What does a «nix-build»able file get as an argument? Anything? Do builtins have anything to print for debugging with?
<ij>
All right, I think I get everything now. Thanks!
<unlmtd>
acpid handlers is broken?
<unlmtd>
iv set handlers for brightness/volume. I can test the keys send the right events, and the scripts have the right effect, but it wont work
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] edolstra pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/vdk2k
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master b790a31 Eelco Dolstra: kdoctools: Move bin stuff to the "out" output...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master b0280f5 Eelco Dolstra: postgresql: Add dev output...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 60aaced Eelco Dolstra: Add some dev outputs
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<Infinisil>
ij: builtins.trace "hi!" { hi = 3; } prints "hi!" when evaluated and evaluates to { hi = 3; }
<ij>
Funny thing, I found that in the docs literally 5 secs before you wrote that. :)
<Infinisil>
:P
<Infinisil>
So, android-studio is built with QT
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<Infinisil>
And I don't think I have any other QT app on this machine, so I would've never really noticed if it didn't work. I guess it's something theming related
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<Infinisil>
Because part of its windows are just white, but do work when I search for buttons
<avn>
hehe, I should figure out, who pull qt4 again :/
<hodapp>
Infinisil: hmmm, this sounds familiar but I need to look in my notes and see if I've run into this
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdk2y
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 799c121 Joachim Fasting: tor-browser-bundle-bin: default to dmix...
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<Infinisil>
I'm just gonna take a wild guess and add qt4 to its LD_LIBRARY_PATH
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<hodapp>
Infinisil: I feel like there is an easy answer here but I just moved and my notes are all over the place. Do you get any kind of warnings when you run it?
<sphalerite>
Infinisil: it's IntelliJ IDEA which is implemented in Java with Swing
<Infinisil>
clever: android-studio works in a VM, and on sphalerite's machine, but not on mine
<Infinisil>
I've tried android-studio of unstable, 17.09, 17.03 and 16.09, and with all of them I get these white windows
<Infinisil>
It's probably something with my X11 setup
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<clever>
Infinisil: find the exact storepath sphalerite is using, and run nix-store -r on it
<octe>
I'm trying to use a service which only exists in unstable, so i added the module to imports. But it depends on an entry in config.ids.uids that isn't there in the released nixpkgs version
<octe>
how can i solve that?
<clever>
fgaz: propagatedNativeBuildInputs and propagatedBuildInputs are not available at runtime, those are available at the build-time of things depending on your package
<clever>
octe: add that config entry to configuration.nis
<clever>
octe: without the config. prefix
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<octe>
ah thanks, i tried with the config prefix
<clever>
octe: nixos will silently wrap the entire module in { config = ...; }; if it lacks both .config and .options
<octe>
oh ok
<octe>
heh, i was curious on what nix would do since the user already existed from a previous version of the package where the uid wasnt specified
<octe>
warning: not applying UID change of user ‘jackett’ (1002 -> 276)
<octe>
i guess that's reasonable :)
<clever>
yeah
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<Infinisil>
clever: Same store path, works in VM, doesn't on my machine
<clever>
Infinisil: up next, make an empty directory, point $HOME there, and run it again
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<Infinisil>
Ah nice, I'll try
<Infinisil>
clever: Doesn't work, it doesn't use $HOME for getting the homedir
<fgaz>
Mic92: so makeWrapper/wrapProgram + makeBinPath is the Right Thing™ to do? I looked at exixting packages and some do that, but some others substitute eg. bash with ${bash}, in the shebang and/or in the whole file
<Infinisil>
I see in the logs that it still uses the normal home
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] seppeljordan opened pull request #29777: dockerTools: Fix pullImage with sandboxing enabled (master...fix-docker-pullImage) https://git.io/vdko0
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<Infinisil>
I could make a new user and try with su -
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<ij>
Someone recommended I take some pills. I stumbled upon them by accident/googling and they're very good! I wouldn't've found the same thing in the manual as easily.
<clever>
Infinisil: sudo -u FOO -i
<clever>
Infinisil: let su die :P
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<Mic92>
fgaz: you can do both patching shebangs and do the makeWrapper thing. (shebangs are also automatically patched if you put bash into buildInputs and your script is executable in $out/bin)
<Infinisil>
clever: Hmm, doesn't work, needs a DISPLAY
<clever>
Infinisil: copy the ~/.Xauthority file to that user, and set $DISPLAY to match
<clever>
that will give it permission to use xorg between users
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<Infinisil>
Hmm, doesn't work, still same error: java.awt.AWTError: Can't connect to X11 window server using ':0' as the value of the DISPLAY variable.
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<Infinisil>
DISPLAY is the same for both users (:0)
<clever>
Infinisil: XAUTHORITY may need to point to the copy
<Infinisil>
and .Xauthority is copied to the fake users home, owner set to the fake user
<ij>
"import ./nix.default.nix" or "… {}" or "(… {})" in nix-repl all say :: error: syntax error, unexpected ',', expecting '.' or '='
<Infinisil>
but still white windows
<Infinisil>
:/
<clever>
ij: can you copy/paste the full contents of the terminal to a pastebin?
<ij>
Ah, sorry. It's my default.nix. I thought the line in repl was wrong.
<Infinisil>
Okay I guess I know now that it's something in my configuration.nix
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<clever>
Infinisil: "nixos-rebuild build-vm" allows running that configuration.nix under qemu
<fgaz>
ok, I'll do that. Thanks Mic92 and clever!
<Infinisil>
bisection between my config and the one that works could solve it
<Infinisil>
clever: does this do X11 or only a shell?
<clever>
Infinisil: by default, it opens an x11 window linked to the virtual gpu
<clever>
Infinisil: and then whatever you enabled in configuration.nix can use that virtual gpu
<Infinisil>
alright, gonna do that
<Infinisil>
maybe not now though, can't have too much frustration in one day :)
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<Infinisil>
thanks for the help clever
<clever>
yep
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<ij>
Does nix define callPackage on imports itself or do packages define it?
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<clever>
ij: import is a builtin, that just blindly loads a file and returns the top-level
<clever>
jellowj: imports is a special attribute in the nixos module system
<clever>
ij: and callPackage is a function within pkgs (part of nixpkgs)
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<woffs>
How to build an old version of Firefox-ESR? Trying something like nix-build -E 'with import <nixpkgs> { system = "i686-linux"; }; firefox-esr.override { version = "45.9.0esr"; } '
<Infinisil>
woffs: check out an older version of nixpkgs, probably works the best
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<Infinisil>
or use an older release-1*.0* channel for it
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<Infinisil>
firefox is pretty complicated, I'd be surprised if a simple version + sha256 override would still work
<ij>
clever, Why would you make a default.nix buildable with the "nix-build -E 'with import <nixpkgs>; callPackage ./default.nix {}'" instead of just nix-buildable?
<Infinisil>
woffs: But you could try, in which case you need to override the unwrapped firefox version
<woffs>
I only want a firefox with working icedtea for the server remote console
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<Infinisil>
sphalerite: Oh btw, android-studio also creates ~/.java, you might want to delete that too
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<moredhel1>
Hi all, I'm having issues regarding getting zfs working in the live cd: `modprobe: FATAL: Module zfs not found in directory /run/booted-system/kernel-modules/lib/modules/4.9.46`
<moredhel1>
has anyone come across this before?
<clever>
moredhel1: add boot.supportedFilesystems = [ "zfs" ]; to /etc/nixos/configuration.nix and nixos-rebuild test
<clever>
moredhel1: due to licensing reasons, zfs cant be shipped on the iso image
<clever>
moredhel1: you need to nix-channel --rollback, then nixos-rebuild switch, to get a 4.9.46 version of zfs
<woffs>
but build fails
<clever>
moredhel1: then you can nix-channel --update and nixos-install (which will install 4.9.51)
<woffs>
I'll relax. Thank yall.
<Infinisil>
woffs: Use an older nixpkgs version then
<copumpkin>
do chrome .deb files get deleted? if I stay on an old nixpkgs, will chrome stop working?
<moredhel1>
will the rollback account for a 'nix-channel --remove'?
<woffs>
Infinisil: then I run into the "libGL.so.1 missing symbol drmGetDevices2" problem
<clever>
moredhel1: yeah
<moredhel1>
cool :), rebuilding now.
<woffs>
maybe I would run there anyway
<Infinisil>
woffs: Ah right
<moredhel1>
should there be a warning about building for the wrong kernel version?
<moredhel1>
or is it right, but in needs a reboot?
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<clever>
moredhel1: it needs a reboot, but its live-media, the reboot reverts everything
<moredhel1>
yeah...
<moredhel1>
hmm, I need a newer version of ZFS so I can repair my system...
<moredhel1>
can I do it off the unstable do you think?
<avn>
btw, any reason, why default install media haven't git and zfs?
<moredhel1>
I'm wanting to move my /nix dir into a dataset so I can put a quota on it
<clever>
moredhel1: 2 solutions
<clever>
moredhel1: plan a, make a custom iso (but you still need to do the zfs and rebuild-switch dance)
<woffs>
firefox 52.3.0esr should do icedtea plugin, it works in debian, but it does not in NixOS. It shows up on the Plugin page but it does not start
<woffs>
weird
<clever>
moredhel1: plan b, just run nixos-install against the usb stick, and now you have a fully self-contained nixos with whatever config you want
<moredhel1>
hmm, plan b sounds interesting. so I run that from my host os. Then I can boot into it and move my /nix dir for my host?
<clever>
moredhel1: yep
<sphalerite>
Infinisil: yeah but I have to use java for uni stuff so I'll be keeping that (and it wasn't newly created for me)
<Infinisil>
i see
<clever>
moredhel1: i prefer nixos-install against a usb, because files persist, and i can use it for recovery, extracting data in repairs, and other useful stuff
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<moredhel1>
would I need to make some modifications with regards to the hardware-config? I will give that a try :). Thanks clever I'll be back when I have a result :)
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<clever>
moredhel1: re-run nixos-generate-config --root /mnt, and it will regenerate hardware-config
<clever>
moredhel1: to match whatever is currently mounted under /mnt
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<moredhel1>
ah yeah, thanks clever :)
<moredhel1>
I'm currently having issues with my current system. I was trying to rsync my current /nix/store over to a new hdd then mount over it (not a good idea)
<moredhel1>
I have tried to repair my store using: nix-store --verify --repair
<moredhel1>
'path ‘/nix/store/yz14kfwr3x6i5ciq9rjyn15am23a4szk-unit-zfs-import.target.drv’ disappeared, but it still has valid referrers!'
<moredhel1>
Is there anything I can do to try and repair this?
<clever>
moredhel1: drv files are auto-created when an expression is evaulated
<clever>
moredhel1: the simplest option is to just run `nix-store --delete` against it (and dont force it)
<moredhel1>
no forcing will be done :)
<pie_>
makefu, so im trying to set up my printer again lol, gonna try the ppd you found
<pie_>
but if the ppd exists why doesnt cups listit?
<pie_>
where does nixos keep /usr/share?
<makefu>
pie_: wow that came from somewhere in the past :D
<clever>
pie_: /nix/store/*/share/
<moredhel1>
hmm, doesn't seem to fix the problem :)
<pie_>
makefu, yeah its been a couple weeks lmao
<pie_>
clever, ah right so just the usual
<pie_>
well thats kinda weird, so what should i tell the printer software about where to get the ppd file from? because i have 4 things in the store that have it and idk which will stay
<clever>
Phillemann: tab-complete in nix-repl '<nixpkgs>'
<jaeckel>
how do packages get updated in your nixpkgs repo? I'm maintaining the libtom repo's and I just saw that you're on 1.17 of libtomcrypt and I'm currently preparing 1.18.0. Also libtommath got an update recently to 1.0.1
<clever>
jaeckel: nix-channel --update, and which channel your on
<jaeckel>
clever: wrong direction, I don't want my channel updated, I want to update the packages in the channel itself
<clever>
jaeckel: open a PR to nixpkgs on github?
<jaeckel>
okay, so there are no fixed maintainers who'd do that? as I'm not a NixOS user...
<pie_>
ok thats weird, it works using hp-setup
<pie_>
so yay printing working...
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<clever>
jaeckel: there are some people that maintain certain areas, but a lot of it is just community sending in PR's for packages they care about
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<woffs>
yeah, it's a very open and impressive community
<pie_>
:)
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<pie_>
ooooh nixcom
<pie_>
nixcon
* pie_
ponders
<Infinisi1>
It would be cool to have a community effort to polish packages in nixpkgs, starting from the least recently updated ones
<hyper_ch>
can you actually setup printers in the configuration.nix?
<pie_>
where in the documentation is printing mentioned? i couldnt find it in nixpkgs or nixos manuals
<Infinisi1>
pie_: You going?
<pie_>
Infinisi1, well i like the idea of going but im poor :P
<pie_>
so i have to think about it
<Infinisi1>
The whole nixcon everything will cost me about $300-$400
<pie_>
hyper_ch, i dont think so? not directly anyway
<hyper_ch>
too bad
<Infinisi1>
I'm lucky to live so near to it :D
<hyper_ch>
I thought since this is all done by cups you could add an expression or something
<hyper_ch>
where is nixcon?
<Infinisi1>
I even have a direct train from my city's trainstation to Munich
<pie_>
i mean i didnt look into it nor did i see anyhting alluding to the possibility but maybe it can be done?
<pie_>
Infinisi1, heh
<hyper_ch>
oh, munich
<pie_>
ok so if printing is documented anywhere it would be nice to mention that hp-setup is the way to go for hp printers >_> other stuff didnt work for me
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<Infinisi1>
pie_: You could check out https://nixos.wiki or add it if it's not there
<hyper_ch>
there's a wiki gTLD now?
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<pie_>
lol unofficial wiki, i guess thats a solution to yes wiki no wiki
<sphalerite>
avn: zfs isn't included in the installer image for licencing reasons, because openzfs is under the GPL-incompatible CDDL and as such can't be distributed together with GPL components like the kernel in binary form
<sphalerite>
avn: as for git, no real reason afaik
<Infinisi1>
hyper_ch: It doesn't work for my disk, there's unmovable files everywhere
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<hyper_ch>
dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda and all your windows problems are gone ;)
<Infinisi1>
when i try to resize it tells me the maximum amount to resize is 0MB
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<hyper_ch>
Infinisi1: well, you could enable thet automatic backup/rollback thingy in windows
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<hyper_ch>
that should free space
<Infinisi1>
hyper_ch: If all windows games ran on linux I'd do that in an instant :)
<hyper_ch>
well, there's a reason they are called "windows games" ;)
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<hyper_ch>
then remove obsolete upgrade files from windows
<Infinisi1>
hyper_ch: That backup/rollback thingy is exactly one of those things that places unmovable files
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<hyper_ch>
deactivate it
<Infinisi1>
done it
<immix>
help
<Infinisi1>
well whatever, I was able to free 100GB on the main disk, (0GB on the big one), i'm just gonna move these files somewhere else temporarily
<hyper_ch>
the daily quota for helping users has been reached. Please visit tomorrow again :)
<sphalerite>
Infinisi1: I'm guessing hte majority of that cost is accommodation then?
<Infinisi1>
:P
<hyper_ch>
Infinisi1: :)
<Infinisi1>
sphalerite: Yes
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<sphalerite>
I'm lucky to have a friend who's going to Munich on an exchange so I can just crash at his :D
<sphalerite>
and a great-uncle also
<Infinisi1>
Oh nice
<hyper_ch>
Munich has nice park benches to sleep one ;)
<sphalerite>
buuut I have to fly so it's similarly expensive
<sphalerite>
hyper_ch: and only the weak sleep at hackathons, right?
<hyper_ch>
yeah
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<hyper_ch>
and there's also plenty of trees
<hyper_ch>
so just use a hammock if you think park benches are too unconfortable :)
<sphalerite>
lol
<hyper_ch>
but not sure what the nice people in blue - formerly known as nice people in green - will say about it
<sphalerite>
be extra fancy and sleep in a tent
<Infinisi1>
I could use my one from the military
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<hyper_ch>
munich is so far away... like 300km or soemthing
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<moredhel1>
clever: it worked! thank you! :)
<hyper_ch>
250km
<hyper_ch>
takes like 2h 45m
<Infinisi1>
hyper_ch: Where are you in CH?
<hyper_ch>
at home
<hyper_ch>
why?
<Infinisi1>
i have 3h25 with the train to Munich, living near St. Gallen, so I'm surprised you're faster
<hyper_ch>
that's by car ;)
<hyper_ch>
Flawil
<Infinisi1>
Holy shit, I'm in Gossau
<hyper_ch>
Gossau ist auch eine Stadt ;)
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<sphalerite>
pfft, I'm 1400km away
<sphalerite>
and some people are flying in from the US :p
<disasm>
I'm flying :)
<hyper_ch>
why drink and drive when you can smoke and fly ;)
<hyper_ch>
Infinisi1: using swisscom? oO
<sphalerite>
why does nobody use the unit Mm? :D
<Infinisi1>
hyper_ch: I'm amazed you're so close by! I've actually lived in Flawil in my childhood
<hyper_ch>
I haven't :)
<hyper_ch>
I moved to SG for the HSG
<Infinisi1>
hyper_ch: Yes, it's an unlimited option, for home usage, because we don't have any decent internet otherwise
<disasm>
sphalerite: you're in UK right?
<sphalerite>
yep
<hyper_ch>
Infinisi1: Flawil decided 4-5 years back to deploy a community fiber
<hyper_ch>
Infinisi1: swisscom came crying and said it's unfair .... they didn't have any plans to deploy fiber
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<Infinisi1>
hyper_ch: we get it too here, but only in like 5 years or so..
<hyper_ch>
Infinisi1: so it was agreed on that 4 fiber connection per apartment ware deployed, 60% costs is stemmed by swisscom
<hyper_ch>
Infinisi1: but swisscom gets 2 of those 4 lines for exclusive use for 30 years
<hyper_ch>
Infinisi1: well, I have now gigabit with Fiber7 ;)
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<hyper_ch>
and the office got fiber installed in april.... and I should get Fiber7 by the end of the month as well ;)
<Infinisi1>
am jealous
<LnL>
gchristensen: nope, I've only deployed projects that use it and configure it for you but those probably didn't use ssl since it's not exposed
<cement>
I'm glad that my apartment let google come in before I moved in
<hyper_ch>
they wait for open market until a whole block is set to fiber
<hyper_ch>
Infinisi1: CHF 777/y
<gchristensen>
gotcha, lnl
<hyper_ch>
the real problem about gigabit internet is that it's so hard to actually utilize it ;)
<gchristensen>
I found I did a lot of (legal) torrenting when I had gigabit
<LnL>
gchristensen: I also still get confused when trying to configure things with ssl :)
<hyper_ch>
I mean use it to the fullest
<gchristensen>
LnL: :D
<LnL>
gchristensen: oh!?
<gchristensen>
LnL: did you mean to reply in private?
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<Infinisi1>
hyper_ch: You're not going to nixcon aren't you?
<woffs>
it takes longer to compile qtwebengine than to travel to munich
<sphalerite>
I supposedly have a 100Mbit connection
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<hyper_ch>
Infinisi1: nope
<sphalerite>
I say supposedly because the only place I get close to that sort of speed is on speed test sites \:|
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<Infinisi1>
Probably limited server-side
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<hyper_ch>
Infinisi1: why do you ask? btw, https://paste.simplylinux.ch/view/5ca2c375 with 10k people in flawil and swisscom covering 60% of the costs, it's like CHF 400/person that we pay for fibernet
<eacameron>
Is it possible to visit a webpage hosted on my NixOS VBox VM from the host computer? I want to use a bridged connection if possible.
<hyper_ch>
yes
<hyper_ch>
with bridge network it will get it's own lan ip
<hyper_ch>
so you just use that
<eacameron>
hyper_ch: Oops. I mean NAT
<Infinisi1>
hyper_ch: Well I'd be cool to meet such a close nixos fella :P
<hyper_ch>
I don't know anything about nixos
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<eacameron>
hyper_ch: I was able to use Bridged easily since it has its own IP on the LAN but it seems NAT does not
<hyper_ch>
why not using bridged?
<sphalerite>
Infinisi1: well when I'm copying stuff to my server (with Hetzner, has a 100Mbit connection iirc) it usually starts off around 10MByte/s then drops off to 1.2 or so
<sphalerite>
Infinisi1: I haven't configured anything on that server to limit it like that
<Infinisi1>
hyper_ch: You're often in this channel, so you can't know nothing about nixos
<hyper_ch>
Infinisi1: unfortunately there's no osmosis effect for knowledge...
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<eacameron>
hyper_ch: Because I have multiple Internet adapters and switching my VM between them is very annoying
<hyper_ch>
I don't get smarter by just hanging around here like that
<hyper_ch>
eacameron: setup a vpn
<Infinisi1>
sphalerite: I see, I'd think congestion then, not sure though
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<eacameron>
hyper_ch: Oh dear...
<eacameron>
That sounds hard
<Infinisi1>
hyper_ch: Why are you in #nixos though?
<hyper_ch>
well, there's other ways also
<hyper_ch>
Infinisi1: because someone forced me at gunpoint to use nixos ;)
<Infinisi1>
I see :)
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<sphalerite>
So, uh, I plugged a USB-C hub with an Ethernet port into my laptop, and...
<ij>
How should I loading the environment variables for a process that doesn't have any?
<hyper_ch>
Infinisi1: and what drives you to nixos?
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<sphalerite>
samueldr: yes
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] etu opened pull request #29779: stupidterm: init at 20170315-752316a (master...stupidterm) https://git.io/vdkp6
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<Judson>
gchristensen, hey - curious about the CVE
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<taaperotassu>
Hiya! here is mine configuration.nix https://pastebin.com/CbWbgv1J am wondering whats the right syntax for boot.loader.grub.extraEntries ? As I am only getting syntax errors. Trying to get my Winserver to appear in grub.
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<sphalerite>
taaperotassu: quote it with two single quotes on either side rather than braces
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<sphalerite>
it's a string, not a set, and strings are delimited by quotes and not braces :)
<taaperotassu>
Thanks! seems lke that was it
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<taaperotassu>
and windows boot failure but thats not really nixos fault
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] edolstra pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdkjG
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master cf599d3 Eelco Dolstra: emacs: Clear the environment while dumping...
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<Infinisi1>
hyper_ch: I think I saw NixOS on HN and it being functional appealed to be, adding to that my lots of frustrating problems with osX are probably what made me switch to Linux/NixOS
<hyper_ch>
hn?
<Infinisi1>
HackerNews
<hyper_ch>
that still exists?
<Infinisi1>
And I always strive against mainstream, another reason for NixOS
<hyper_ch>
:)
<Infinisi1>
HackerNews is probably the most active such forum
<hyper_ch>
I thought it would have faded into oblivion meanwhile
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<Infinisi1>
What makes you think that?
<hyper_ch>
it happens with all hip and trendy things
<sphalerite>
lobste.rs!
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<hyper_ch>
is that the new hacker news?
<disasm>
sphalerite: we trended on hacker news with nixops a week ago :)
<sphalerite>
yeah, saw that
<sphalerite>
always good to see the news spreading
<disasm>
we'll be main stream in no time Infinisi1 then where will you go? :)
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<hyper_ch>
dias
<hyper_ch>
disasm: ubuntu
<disasm>
hyper_ch: haha, anything but that... I still cringe anytime I work with a client an they have ubuntu servers in production...
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<hyper_ch>
they could upgrade to debian though
<disasm>
hyper_ch: haha, good luck with that. I think I did that successfully once, lol best to just start over.
<hyper_ch>
I just love debian on server
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<sphalerite>
I used to, then I moved to nixos on my laptop, and then I became sad every time I SSHed into the debian server
<samueldr>
at least there's time to adapt between breaking release with debian
<hyper_ch>
sphalerite: why?
<sphalerite>
So stateful, hard to keep track of what's going on, shared namespaces
<hyper_ch>
I have one server I upgrade from sarge till stretch
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] edolstra pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdIez
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 8ccce8d Eelco Dolstra: Add more dev outputs
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<sphalerite>
I used etckeeper but it didn't help much because apt messed with it so much
<sphalerite>
I like having a system that's built out of an expression
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<sphalerite>
Even if that's at the cost of not quite so rigorous release processes and such, because it's so much easier to fix stuff
<hyper_ch>
debian stable is just so greate for servers
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<lejonet>
hyper_ch: s/stable/stale/ ;)
<lejonet>
Tho I'd take a debian or debian derivative over CentOS/RHEL anyday
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<pxc>
upgrading between major releases of NixOS is extremely easy and low-risk, which is amazing
<srhb>
I feel sad that I will probably switch to Ubuntu from Debian at work (mainly because I haven't managed to sell NixOS)
<pxc>
RHEL is just too stale for me, but I think stable distros that make it easy to add your own packages and repositories are great. openSUSE Leap + your own personal repo on the openSUSE Build Service is my favorite. Stable for the things I don't care to struggle with, bleeding edge for the things I do
<pxc>
Ubuntu with your own PPA can be similar although it's not quite as good
<hyper_ch>
srhb: why sad? Debian is an upgrade from Ubuntu
<lejonet>
hyper_ch: he's doing the other way around
<srhb>
hyper_ch: We're switching to Ubuntu (probably) exactly because of the staleness of Debian. We've just been repackaging too much to keep living with it, just to say relatively up to date.
<hyper_ch>
lejonet: yeah, that's sad
<lejonet>
hyper_ch: agreed
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<woffs>
regarding my firefox-esr problem, now it starts icedtea. It was my fault (blocking "pluginproblem" and therefore not allowing java applet to be run). It works with current firefox-esr. Now java crashes, but this is not a NixOS but a java version fuckup problem I think.
<Infinisi1>
disasm: It would need to take quiet a bit longer for nixos to become mainstream :P
<hyper_ch>
srhb: where on a server do you need the newest versions anyway? stability is much more important imho
<lejonet>
the main reason that nixos appeals to me, except the determinism which is ooooh so sweet, is the fact that maintaining "out-of-tree" packages requires very little effort
<srhb>
hyper_ch: I haven't found Ubuntu to be very unstable, and we need interop with newer products much more. Most of our servers can crash if they like and we'll keep going, it's all just various clusters.
<srhb>
hyper_ch: There are some legacy databases that are an exception to this rule.
<srhb>
Making (insert newfangled technology) work on Debian is just pains upon pains.
<cyberwolf[m]>
how good is the distribution or raw,?
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<hyper_ch>
debian stable has now php 7 :) so it's up-to-date ;)
<srhb>
lejonet: Yes, that's one thing I really love too. I also love that going from "out-of-tree" to "contributing upstream" is so little fuss.
<srhb>
hyper_ch: Well, PHP is *expletives for five minutes*
<srhb>
:-)
<lejonet>
srhb: xD
<hyper_ch>
I do not know that word: expletives
<lejonet>
hyper_ch: but you know PHP?
<hyper_ch>
yes
<srhb>
hyper_ch: I'm teasing, it's "curse words"
<lejonet>
Then you know the meaning of expletives ;)
<hyper_ch>
lejonet: I don't follow
<srhb>
hyper_ch: They are implying that any user of PHP knows what swear words are. :)
<lejonet>
hyper_ch: I was trying to be funny with the fact that PHP == "piece of dung" times a lot worse curses
<hyper_ch>
php is awesome
<srhb>
Anyway, I didn't mean to start the flame war.
<lejonet>
hyper_ch: it has its uses
<srhb>
(We might be upgrading from PHP 5 soon on some legacy systems, so there's that...)
<lejonet>
I've heard that php 6/7 is a lot less insane than PHP 5
<srhb>
cyberwolf[m]: Not understood, can you rephrase your question?
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<cyberwolf[m]>
how stable is the nixos with the same arch: )
<gchristensen>
cyberwolf[m]: I find it quite stable
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<sphalerite>
cyberwolf: what do you mean?
<cyberwolf[m]>
updates that all break down:
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<samueldr>
only time I had an issue while upgrading, it was my fault, and I was able to boot in the previous generation to fix it
<samueldr>
it was during 16.09 → 17.03 upgrade
<gchristensen>
cyberwolf[m]: "almost never"
<samueldr>
and when it does, it is excessively rarely catastrophic
<cyberwolf[m]>
gchristensen: ok, thx
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<maurer>
My experience with nixos has been that it's frequently harder to get something working than with other distros, but once it's working, it doesn't usually break
<hyper_ch>
it doesn't usually break - until I am let loose on it
<ennui>
is there a lib function with the body 'x: default: if isNull x then default else x'? I can't seem to find it.
<ertes-w>
hi… i need to create a bunch of bootable USB sticks, but not as live systems, but regular writable ones… is there a way i can do this in a mostly declarative way? the way i imagine it to work is to build an image that i can dd over a USB stick that will resize itself on the first boot
<ertes-w>
i'm targetting BIOS exclusively right now
<ertes-w>
x86
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<samueldr>
installation-cd-base.nix and iso-image.nix might help figuring out how to make it work
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<sven_>
hello everyone
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<ertes-w>
ok, i'll try to dig through those… thanks, people
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<sven_>
I have not used nix before, and I want to use it for production machines that are 32bit, and I need them to be using extlinux instead of nixos's default of grub. How hard is this with nixos?
<pie_>
ah wait i think i got it!
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<sphalerite>
sven_: 32-bit support is on its way out unfortunately. As for extlinux, you'll have to do some fiddling yourself, there's no support built in to nixos.
<sphalerite>
sven_: I certainly wouldn't go straight to production with it if you haven't used nix before
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<sven_>
@sphalerite thank you
<sphalerite>
sven_: once you've got it working it'll probably be a fair bit easier to maintain than an equivalent debian system or so
<sphalerite>
but the path there will likely be longer
<sven_>
yes this is what I was hoping for
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<sven_>
I currently have the problem of replacing 32bit Fedora 22
<sven_>
Some industry machines just have intel atoms, so 32bit is something I might need for some more years ... :(
<sven_>
why is 32bit going away?
<sven_>
lack of man-power?
<sphalerite>
Ooooh, actually there is a nixos module for generating extlinux-compatible configs
<sphalerite>
it just won't install extlinux for you
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<sphalerite>
yeah pretty much, not enough interest in maintaining it for manual work and computational resource reasons
<sphalerite>
Not to say that it'll stop working, it just won't be supported anymore and fewer if any binary packages will be available
<maurer>
sphalerite: If you're one of the people involved, might it be possible to at least release 32-bit binary packages for major releases?
<samueldr>
sphalerite: the extlinux-compatible configs are mainly used on ARM devices, where u-boot uses them
<samueldr>
:)
<sven_>
in nixos, is it hard to install/compile from source packages?
<sphalerite>
maurer: I'm not really involved; and no, major releases need maintenance too
<maurer>
sven_: Usually no.
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<sphalerite>
sven_: nixos is probably the distro that makes it the easiest while still supporting binary packages :)
<pxc>
sven_: that depends on how quirky or atypical the target project's build system is, basically
<maurer>
sphalerite: Yeah, I was mostly thinking of computational resources rather than blocking the releases
<sphalerite>
sven_: the process for building from source is the same as for getting binaries, from the user's perspective
<maurer>
sphalerite: e.g. having a cache available of "whatever 32-bit packages built at time of 18.03 cut" is a lot less expensive than "normal hydra builds 32-bit"
<maurer>
and would still probably help 32-bit folks out a bunch
<sphalerite>
maurer: yeah I think that's still happening for now as well
<sphalerite>
but tbh I've found that building from source isn't as horrible as you'd think, at least on my ARM laptop
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<sven_>
I just want to try this... so I guess the advice here is, to follow the arm installation route, and to use the prebuilt binaries currently available, right?
<pxc>
sven_: if you can do './configure && make && make install', creating the Nix package is generally matter of pointing Nix at the source code and saying 'go!'
<sphalerite>
the only one where it would be really horrible I'm guessing is webkit
<samueldr>
the cpu must be much beefier than the SBCs I've tried
<sphalerite>
pxc: sven_ also listing the dependencies!
<sven_>
@pxc what about "native" nix packages(if that makes any sense), can I just install them such that they get downloaded as source and then compiled instead of being downloaded as binary?
<hyper_ch>
makefu: :)
<ertes-w>
ok, that looks like it requires some deeper inspection, and i'm running out of time… for now i'll create those images ad-hoc via nixos-install
<sphalerite>
samueldr: yeah, my dotfiles and stuff took about 48h to build the full closure I think. It's not pleasant but still bearable
<sphalerite>
sven_: yes, in fact you need a source specification to get a binary package
<sphalerite>
sven_: the binary packages are just an optimisation in a process that's very source-centric
<sphalerite>
ertes-w: hang on
<sven_>
@samueldr: no I am building in an libvirt-lxc container and then the device boots from USB, the USB image however is generated in a larger build system.
* ertes-w
is hanging
<sphalerite>
ertes-w: https://github.com/lheckemann/boot2barony here's the hacks that I did — in a bit of a messy state, sorry, but barony-sd.nix and make-disk-image.nix (ripped off from the one in nixpkgs) are where the magic happens
<sphalerite>
this is for EFI-based systems
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<sphalerite>
ertes-w: the purpose of this was to get an image that my friend could dd to a USB stick, then boot, to be able to play a particular game in a slightly more up-to-date version
<ertes-w>
sphalerite: thanks a lot… i'll see if i can use it for my use case =)
<sphalerite>
ertes-w: ended up going with that after trying for quite a while to build it for windows with mingw
<sphalerite>
x)
<sphalerite>
good luck!
<ertes-w>
fun fact: i'm building a bootable linux stick to boot into a virtualised windows =)
<samueldr>
lewd
<sphalerite>
heh
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<sphalerite>
let me guess… it's because you can't just install windows to a USB stick and boot it portably
<ertes-w>
rather i don't want to… it's not for myself anyway
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<ertes-w>
this is one of those cases: come hell or high water, this particular windows installation must survive
<ertes-w>
so i'm building a linux system around it that always emulates the same hardware
<ertes-w>
and can be replicated
<ertes-w>
… i.e. backed up
<sphalerite>
lol
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<sphalerite>
I like how your weapon of choice for making windows reliable is linux ^^
<pxc>
does anyone who uses Nix for webdev know off hand whether node2nix can handle installing Typescript definitions?
<disasm>
so... monitoring nixos... I'm thinking I'm fed up with trying to get icinga2 to work... What do folks here use? prometheus? sensu? old school nagios?
<Denommus>
is cache.nixos.org slow today or is it only here?
<gandreani>
it was quick for me today
<samueldr>
isn't it geographically distributed through S3?
<gandreani>
S3 is not a great CDN...
<Denommus>
I don't know
<sphalerite>
samueldr: cloudfront I think
<samueldr>
it is cloudfront, according to rdns
<ertes-w>
disasm: we're in the process of switching from zabbix to sensu… my experience so far has been "good enough"
<ertes-w>
sensu that is
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<Mic92>
telegraf + grafana
<Mic92>
(influxdb)
<ertes-w>
disasm: with my current experience i gravitate more towards consul
<ertes-w>
that's going to be my next monitoring solution
<ertes-w>
probably together with graphite (for others, not for myself… i don't really need graphs)
<disasm>
Mic92: yeah, that's one of my favorite setups :) what do you do for things that aren't time series? like checking expiration of an ssl cert
<disasm>
Mic92: and do you use grafana for alerting or setup something like kapacitor?
<Mic92>
disasm: I did some stuff with kapacitor in the past, but grafana alerting is easier to setup. And since we added pushover support to grafana
<Mic92>
...
<disasm>
ertes-w: consul does service registration, not monitoring :) great for HA, not so much for detecting performance problems, complete outages, etc...
<ertes-w>
consul is great, because it actually *solves* the problem of having a single point of failure, and because its architecture makes sense to me (being distributed)
<ertes-w>
disasm: it has monitoring, but you need something else for alerting… there is a distributed alerting system for it, too
<disasm>
Mic92: ooh, native pushover? :) I might have to try that out.
<Denommus>
is anyone working on packaging dotnet core?
<Denommus>
if not I may do it myself
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<gandreani>
Sounds hairy :) Is there a process for proposing a new package (errr... what's the term nix uses?)?
<hydraz>
derivation
<gandreani>
Thank you
<Mic92>
disasm: yeah, should work since some time
<Mic92>
was also released some versions ago
<disasm>
Denommus: Mic92 what about for non-time-series things like an ssl cert about to expire? How do you handle that?
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] bcdarwin opened pull request #29782: several MINC additions/updates in separate commits: libminc, minc-tools, minc-widgets, N3, inormalize, EBTKS, mni_autoreg, and some Perl modules (master...mni-autoreg) https://git.io/vdIYI
<gandreani>
Is there a channel for nixops? I'm trying start a virtualbox in MacOsx but keeps timing out on the ssh connection :(
<disasm>
Denommus: not everyone uses acme certs, not sure why more people don't but believe it or not some people actually still pay for ssl certs :)
<Denommus>
gandreani: you need to create a host-only network in virtualbox for it to work
<disasm>
gandreani: you're here :)
<gandreani>
Ahh I thought there was a channel for each nix/nixos/nixops :P
<gandreani>
Denommus: I added that and it's still happening. Wonder if I set it up wrong tho
<Denommus>
gandreani: open the VirtualBox GUI, Ctrl+G (for settings), Network, host-only networks, delete the current one and create a new one. Also, enable the DHCP server
<gandreani>
Denommus: Ok imma give it a try thank you
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nix] copumpkin opened pull request #1580: Add timeout as a retry-worthy condition (master...retry-after-timeout) https://git.io/vdIOa
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<Denommus>
gosh, it's impossible to update my packages today
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] abbradar pushed 6 new commits to master: https://git.io/vdIOA
<Fare>
at least if you do a straightforward mapping of jsonnet/nix objects onto haskell
<Denommus>
Fare: how is that an advantage?
<Fare>
Denommus, to be able to do things that Haskellers can't fathom? Priceless.
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<sphalerite>
eacameron: I'm not sure, I think cabal2nix generates nix expressions rather than being used at build time as a build input?
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<eacameron>
sphalerite: good point. I'll try it and see what happens... :D
<Denommus>
Fare: the fact that something can't be typed doesn't mean that people can't fathom it, just that the type system isn't powerful enough to express it. I bet it's perfectly possible to express a type for those in something like Idris
<Denommus>
also, I think this kind of attitude isn't very helpful
<sphalerite>
eacameron: but if that's the case I'm also not sure you'll get the desired effect...
<eacameron>
sphalerite: If you're right then it should be what I need since I just want to use callCabal2nix in my own derivations
<eacameron>
So only my own derivations will need it.
<sphalerite>
Aaah right
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<hodapp>
Fare: this sounds like the sort of thing that lenses and/or structural subtyping / row polymorphism were made to handle.
<eacameron>
Does import <nixpkgs> { cabal2nix = ... } also act as overlay?
<Fare>
hodapp, lenses not, but row polymorphism maybe.
<Denommus>
Fare: yes, that would require dependent types, or something like F#'s type providers
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<sphalerite>
Although having uncopyable values seems un-functional to me..?
<Fare>
Denommus: I'm sure anything can be done with dependent types; and that by the time you've done it, you probably have developed a theory of row polymorphism and more inside your dependent types
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<Denommus>
Haskell doesn't have the most powerful type system in the world, people just praise it because it's strong enough, while still being practical
<eacameron>
sphalerite: Actually it's very functional because you can bring inplace mutation into a pure language. If there's only one owner, than inplace mutation is not an observable side effect.
<hodapp>
Fare: afaik, I've seen forms of it that, yes, work on extensible record structures; for runtime-extensible, I'm not exactly sure what you're doing that isn't just a key/value abstraction if you can't provide *anything* a priori on the types or the records
<Denommus>
the same can't be said about dependent typed languages such as Idris
<hodapp>
Denommus: I feel like a stronger form of dependent typing (versus the various limited piecemeal forms already present) would be a pretty tough endeavour in Haskell, but I did read some of the proposals
<sphalerite>
eacameron: oooh yeah fair enough
<Fare>
hodapp: I can provide *many* things a priori on the types of the records, not all of which fit any given type straightjacket.
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<sphalerite>
So what do you folks thing of TypeScript's type system? x)
<hodapp>
Fare: what can you provide a priori, before runtime, on the records?
<Denommus>
sphalerite: there was a purely functional language based on linear types. It's Haskell's sibling, Clean
<Fare>
hodapp: but I love to consider mixins as *partial objects*... and it's "interesting" to statically type whether a given combination of partial objects will yield a complete object, and if so of what type.
<sphalerite>
Aw
<Denommus>
a nice thing about linear types is that you can have "pure side-effects", by describing the World as a linear structure
<Fare>
hodapp: some partial objects are descriptors that require more information from further partial objects to partake in the mix.
<pxc>
does overrideAttrs not work for adding platforms because overrideAttrs still needs a derivation to override? or is it supposed to work without a derivation being given?
<hodapp>
Fare: this sounds exactly like how typeclasses are already used
<Fare>
hodapp: EXACTLY... except at runtime
<hodapp>
Fare: typeclasses are dispatched at runtime in cases where it can't be resolved completely at compile-time
<Denommus>
say ' expresses a linear structure (that is, passing it will move it to other owner). You can express a print function with print :: (String, World') -> World'
<eacameron>
How would I refer to a pre-built closure of cabal2nix from a derivation?
<Denommus>
that would be pure, because referential transparency would be guaranteed!
<sphalerite>
pxc: I think it should work...
<Fare>
hodapp: of course, but somehow the type is known at compile-time, and you don't have any partial object at runtime.
<Denommus>
read would be read :: World' -> (String, World')
<Denommus>
I'm going to try to switch networks, my connection is really unstable
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<Fare>
what's the type of an overlay, beside "overlay with arbitrary key value associations"?
<pxc>
sphalerite: just tested it, and it looks like it doesn't. you need to du allowBroken to get it to (partially?) eval the original expression before overriding it
<hodapp>
Fare: the type need not be known provided it can resolve the necessary implementations at runtime
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<hodapp>
the types in many cases are otherwise erased
<Fare>
why call them overlay instead of mixins? Every language reinventing non-standard vocabulary.
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<Fare>
hodapp: keep saying this and soon you'll be programming in Lisp.
<Fare>
or in nix.
<hodapp>
Fare: have been programming in Lisp since around '03.
<Denommus>
gosh, much better
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<sphalerite>
pxc: weird, I don't think it should be like that, unless I'm missing some context. Maybe open an issue
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<Fare>
hodapp: nice, which Lisp?
<hodapp>
believe I started in CMUCL and CLISP
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<Denommus>
CLISP nowadays is an awful implementation
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<disasm>
woah! youcompleteme works again!!! :)
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<gandreani>
How did it break?
<symphorien>
I see that a lot of python packages moved from python-packages.nix to their own file -- does it mean that every new package should do so, or is there a policiy to choose between staying in python-pacakge.nix ?
<hodapp>
Denommus: huh. I wonder how well that gofundme will work, given things like (for instance) the attempt at adding static types to Erlang that mostly just resulted in a "here's why we think this didn't really work" research paper
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] bjornfor pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdIc5
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master d757d81 Bjørn Forsman: vimPlugins.robotframework-vim: init at 2017-04-14
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<sphalerite>
symphorien: yes, new ones should go in their own
<symphorien>
ok
<sphalerite>
symphorien: I think it's written in the nixpkgs manual or a readme file in the repo as well
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<hodapp>
what I've seen so far in Nix would seem to indicate that people *usually* keep the types pretty consistent (when it comes to, for instance, what an argument is expected to be) but that's just from the limited code I've seen/written
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<sphalerite>
There's also the type system built on top of the language rather than being integrated into it, in the module system
<hodapp>
sphalerite: what's this? have a reference?
<sphalerite>
hodapp: lib/types.nix
<hodapp>
cool, I'll go take a look
<sphalerite>
lib/modules.nix as well I think?
<sphalerite>
It's what nixos configuration is built on
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<sphalerite>
It's not hugely sophisticated but it does the job :)
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<Fare>
I just moved from CL (used seriously since ~2003, too) to Gerbil Scheme.
<gandreani>
sphalerite: Usually that's better than a sophisticated system :)
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<Fare>
What could cause nixos-install to complain about a circular dependency from "/" to "/" ???
<sphalerite>
gandreani: only from a pragmatic perspective. It's not as much fun. :p
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] siddharthist opened pull request #29786: latinmodern-math: init at 1.959 (master...latinmodern-math) https://git.io/vdIW4
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<Fare>
I'm trying to install a friend's laptop based on my own working configuration.nix, and I get the error message "the fileSystems option cannot be topologically sorted: mountPoint dependency path / -> loop to /
<sphalerite>
And remove any fileSystems entries that aren't in hardware-configratuion.nix
<sphalerite>
-typos
<gandreani>
sounds like configurable graduation tuition
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<eacameron>
So cabal2nix keeps failing saying it can't run nix-prefetch-zip: Two questions, why is cabal2nix still depending on that no-longer-existant tool, and why is it not a declared dependency?
<Fare>
sphalerite, yes, my friend forgot to comment the use of hardware-configuration.nix as he merged in my own changes.
<eacameron>
peti: ^
<Fare>
thanks!
<symphorien>
how can I make fetchPypi use .tar.bz2 instead of .tar.gz ?
<symphorien>
.tar.gz is a 404
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<sphalerite>
Fare: :)
<sphalerite>
symphorien: use fetchurl with mirror://pypi/stuff I think
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] bjornfor pushed 1 new commit to release-17.09: https://git.io/vdIWx
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.09 9da0479 Bjørn Forsman: vimPlugins.robotframework-vim: init at 2017-04-14...
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<Denommus>
hodapp: I don't know
<Denommus>
hodapp: I surely hope it works
<sphalerite>
Right, sleepytime because I have a tummy bug / cold / food poisoning to recover from
<Fare>
hodapp: both CMUCL and CLISP are barely maintained these days, but SBCL, CCL and ECL are still somewhat alive... and there is ql2nix integration!
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<gandreani>
sphalerite: Good night/nap!
<Fare>
btw, how long is polite before pinging maintainers to smile over a nixpkgs PR?
<Denommus>
Fare: I'd say one week
<Fare>
Denommus, thanks!
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<disasm>
Mic92: works for me, I'll get a PR together to fix the example.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] siddharthist opened pull request #29787: tex-gyre-termes-math: init at 1.543 (master...tex-gyre-termes-math) https://git.io/vdI8j
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<Sonarpulse>
should I be able to use NIX_BUILD_HOOK=false or something
<Sonarpulse>
to fake a --dry-run with import from derivation?
<Sonarpulse>
jophish: ^ reminds me of your trick with the custom substituter
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<pie_>
so.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] yegortimoshenko opened pull request #29788: Add xf86-input-cmt touchpad driver from GalliumOS (master...cmt) https://git.io/vdIuI
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<pie_>
what happens if github goes down.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] dotlambda opened pull request #29789: gpx-viewer: init at 0.4.0 (master...gpx-viewer) https://git.io/vdIu8
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<globin>
pie_: you mean regaring fetchFromGitHub for sources? We cache all tarballs for every release on cache.nixos.org
<pie_>
no for nixpkgs
<pie_>
though i suppose thats good to know
<pie_>
globin, no actually FOR EVERYTHINNG *insert apocalypse*
<globin>
pie_: well all of us devs have a copy of the nixpkgs repo locally, so we could push that to some other repository hosting instance
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<globin>
for issues and PRs, yes I don't think we're mirroring them anywhere, but I'm quite sure that github wouldn't just "go down
<globin>
but provide some transitioning period
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<maurer>
That is one of the good things about git - you can't just lose everything. We'd need new organizational infrastructure, but everyone working on the project probably has a couple copies of its history
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<Denommus>
pie_: one of the reasons git was conceived was to prevent something like BitKeeper from happening
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<Yaniel>
renderdoc segfaults for some reason tho, need to investigate that further
<bgamari>
has anyone found that ssh logins to have slightly broken terminal configurations?
<bgamari>
particularly inside of nix-shell
<Ralith>
Yaniel: hurrah!
<bgamari>
e.g. pressing up arrow results in "^[OA^[OA" being printed
<Ralith>
bgamari: do you have the proper terminfo installed?
<bgamari>
a lovely question
<bgamari>
this is a NixOS installation, so I would have thought so
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 1 new commit to release-17.09: https://git.io/vdIPc
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.09 edf780b Jan Tojnar: gnome3.at-spi2-core: fix service not found error...
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<bgamari>
is terminfo installed by default?
<Ralith>
nixos does not implicitly install every single terminfo under the sun
<Ralith>
that would be silly
<bgamari>
Ralith, is this mentioned in the manual?
<bgamari>
I don't recall seeing any mention of it
<Ralith>
what terminal are you using?
<bgamari>
[ben@nixos:~]$ echo $TERM
<bgamari>
xterm-256color
<Ralith>
that should be fine then
<Ralith>
if that is in fact the terminal you're using
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<bgamari>
I'm using gnome-terminal
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<bgamari>
frankly nix-shell already seems a bit broken from the prompt that it produces
<hodapp>
...I just tried to write 'Suckless NixOS' into a search engine (out of curiosity for how that project is going) and accidentally wrote SuckOS -_-
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<bgamari>
$ nix-shell '<nixpkgs>' -A haskell.compiler.ghcHEAD
<bgamari>
\[\][nix-shell:~]$\[\]
<bgamari>
where everything but the initial \[ and terminal \] in the prompt are green
<eacameron>
bgamari: you have nested shells
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<bgamari>
indeed I do
<Mic92>
bgamari: try bashInterative to the other nix-shell
<hydraz>
hodapp: Foreshadowing.
<Mic92>
*bashInteractive
<bgamari>
Mic92, eh?
<hodapp>
hydraz: I'm probably no more likely to use it than GuixSD, but I am interested in what they're doing.
<hydraz>
I was mostly joking :p
<eacameron>
bgamari: nesting nix-shell doesn't work right
<hodapp>
hydraz: yeah yeah yeah :P
<hodapp>
systemd still makes me a sad panda.
<hydraz>
I like to say that "less is more" implies "suckless is suckmore"
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<bgamari>
eacameron, but as far as I know I'm not nesting nix-shell
<eacameron>
bgamari: So you can exit only twice? ;)
<bgamari>
AFAIK this is the first nix-shell of the session
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<bgamari>
right
<eacameron>
bgamari: hm; and there's nothing fancy in bachrc that would do it...?
<bgamari>
nope, this is essentially a fresh installation
<bgamari>
it's a clean VM; I'm finally trying to start migrating to nixos
<eacameron>
bgamari: Hm. I'm not sure then. IIRC I've seen something like this before too but it's been too long to remember what I did
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<bgamari>
eacameron, I take it you don't see a similar behavior if you ssh to localhost and run nix-shell?
<eacameron>
bgamari: Heh I've never ssh localhost before. I'll try it
<eacameron>
bgamari: Yeah I don't see that behavior. I'm on NixOS 16.09 though
<eacameron>
Kinda old.
<bgamari>
odd
<bgamari>
alright
<bgamari>
thanks for trying!
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<eacameron>
bgamari: Yeah I'm sorry it's not working for you. There are other folks on this channel who know everything there is to know and would likely be much more helpful (cough clever, LnL)