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<tilpner>
So a while ago, I asked if anyone had encountered issues with mixing modules from different channels
<tilpner>
Turns out that idea is even worse than it sounds
<tilpner>
And now postgres fails to start, because matrix-synapse assumes the postgres module already has the quoting fix
<tilpner>
Solution^WQuick fix: Use postgres module from unstable
<tilpner>
(Actual solution: Check if matrix-synapse backports have gotten better, and make them good enough if they aren't)
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<ldlework>
hmm, did `nix-env -i syncthing` on an old server, which hung my ssh connection, now I can't ssh into the server lol
<ldlework>
heckin heck
<lassulus>
Probably not enough ram
<lassulus>
Nix-env -i needs quite a lot
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<ldlework>
Just curous if anyone is using Syncthing and has some expressions they use?
<ldlework>
Oh nice it's a service
<sphalerite>
ldlework: not really, I just have syncthing installed in my profile (but by attribute path, which might work on your old server as well) and have a symlink to the systemd user service file (.nix-profile/lib/systemd/user/syncthing.servce) in my ~/.config/systemd/user
<sphalerite>
then enabled it using systemctl --user enable syncthing
<ldlework>
sphalerite: so I guess you're editing the configuration by hand then?
<ldlework>
oh right the webui
<ldlework>
cool that was easy
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<gchristensen>
DD/MM/YYYY is a terrible date format
<Taneb>
gchristensen: it's the closest to how I say dates out loud
<lassulus>
Better than MM/DD/YYYY
<Taneb>
That aside, I agree it has no advantage over YYYY/MM/DD
<Taneb>
(I say, e.g., "the eighteenth of December twenty nineteen", as I believe is common in the UK)
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<gchristensen>
interesting, we totally say December eighteenth, twenty nineteen
<joepie91>
literally translated, it'd be "eighteen december, two thousand nineteen" in Dutch
<joepie91>
literally back-translated *
<joepie91>
(and yes, lowercase december)
<Taneb>
I never know whether words like that want to be upper case or lower case
<Taneb>
I only recently learnt that I was the only person capitalising "North"
<joepie91>
weekdays + months are capitalized in English (afaik) but not in Dutch
<joepie91>
capitalizing directions depends on whether it's part of a name I think
<Taneb>
I'm a native speaker but that doesn't mean I know what I'm doing
<joepie91>
for example, "Noord-Holland" (North Holland), but "noord-Gelderland" (north Gelderland) to give two province examples in NL
<joepie91>
rule's the same there in Dutch and English I think
<joepie91>
hm, maybe northern Gelderland
<joepie91>
I'm not sure about north vs. northern actually
<joepie91>
is that a UK vs. US thing?
<Taneb>
I don't think so?
<Taneb>
South Africa and southern Africa are very different things
<FireFly>
Taneb: I imagine 'North' would depend on the context (like, if it's part of a region or place name, country name etc, or if it's just the word by itself)
<FireFly>
or if it's a proxy for a region..
<Taneb>
FireFly: until a couple of years ago I was capitalising it all the time
<FireFly>
ah
<FireFly>
I could see referring to like, "the North" for Northern England or so
<FireFly>
with uppercase n because it's referencing a place. but then, of course, I'm not a native speaker :p
<qyliss>
I am a native speaker and also had this confusion
<joepie91>
Taneb: I'm talking about north vs. northern, not North vs. northern :P
<Taneb>
joepie91: right
<Taneb>
Hmm, I don't think I'd ever say "north England" but I would say "the north of England"
<Taneb>
I would say, e.g., "north Northumberland" or "northern Northumberland" interchangeably
<joepie91>
you had to pick the most confusing name there :D
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<Taneb>
It's my home county
<Taneb>
(although I'm from south Northumberland)
<joepie91>
okay, I retract what I said earlier
<joepie91>
that is the most confusing name :P
<__monty__>
gchristensen: How is MM/DD/YYYY not objectively more terrible?
<gchristensen>
I didn't compare it to MM/DD/YYYY
<ar>
everything is terrible compared to YYYY-MM-DD
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<__monty__>
Yes, ISO dates all the way.
<edef>
gchristensen: yeah, i've been under heavy load myself, so it might not be wise to wait on me for that
<gchristensen>
edef: no worries, I'm not :)
<__monty__>
Dutch is weird for not capitalizing days and months. Germanic languages tend to and Romance languages tend not to.
<joepie91>
__monty__: you could've stopped after "weird" :D
<ar>
polish also doesn't capitalize days and months, which feels weird to me
<FireFly>
nor does swedish, which makes perfect sense to me :p it's always been weird to do so in english to me
<Taneb>
Languages are weird
<FireFly>
true
<__monty__>
FireFly: All names are capitalized.
<__monty__>
Hmm, looks like more languages don't though. Weird.
<__monty__>
Was basing my estimation of germanic languages on German and English.
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<FireFly>
See, to me weekdays, names of months etc are just words and not names
<__monty__>
You're entitled to wrong opinions : )
<FireFly>
I don't capitalise Afternoon or Weekend or any other period of time :p
<__monty__>
They clearly are names though.
<__monty__>
And they derive from the names of gods.
<joepie91>
they're not names to me either, any more than "car" is a name
<pie_>
why doesnt linux just have a global events engine everyone can hook into, sheesh
<pie_>
i imagine thats what dus is supposed to be but i meant something provided by the kernel
<pie_>
no dbus is not that, dbus is just a message thingy
<pie_>
I'm trying to create a network route on the host after the container is up...
<pie_>
the normal nixos declarative network config doesnt seem to work...presumably because its a container?
<sphalerite>
you may want to consider using systemd-networkd, or you can run a script based on the container's unit?
<pie_>
sphalerite: what can i do with networkd
<pie_>
when i looked for running scripts most htings seemed to say networkmanager, havent explicitly looked at networkd
<pie_>
nixos has an option for networkmanager which was the stuff about the dispatcher above
<pie_>
didnt see anything for networkd yet
<pie_>
*could* I just add something to the container unit?
<pie_>
would be nice if the nixos manual said what will conflict if i dont tell networkmanager to ignore the device...
<sphalerite>
networkd replaces nixos's scripted networking setup, so it's not entirely trivial to switch (but networkmanager can cooperate with networkd)
<sphalerite>
pie_: it will probably try to get DHCP from it, and you probably don't want your container to be able to assign IP addresses and get all the traffic from its host
<pie_>
not that that helps me solve the problem per se...
<pie_>
guess it might be sufficient to disable dhcp if possible
<sphalerite>
check `systemctl list-units`, you should be able to find a .device for the container veth interface
<sphalerite>
you can then make a new service that's WantedBy and After that device
<sphalerite>
that sets the IP
<sphalerite>
or route or whatever it was :)
<pie_>
aha.
<pie_>
sphalerite: what attribute do i specify the script with
<pie_>
serviceConfig.ExecStart?
<pie_>
sphalerite: its not sufficient that the device exist, it needs to have an ip assigned for the route assignment to work
<pie_>
sphalerite: is after and wantedby sufficient for that?
<pie_>
probably gonna need networkd..
<pie_>
hm so yeah "Adding a dependency on sys-subsystem-net-devices-eth1.device doesn't help either, since that only indicates that the device exists (from the point of view of udev), which says nothing about it being up and configured yet. So that's not an option either."
<pie_>
im fialing to see a way to disable networkmanagers internal dhcp on a given interface -_-
<sphalerite>
I think if you specify a device on the default connection it won't use it for other devices.
<sphalerite>
but I think networkd would be an overall more elegant solution
<pie_>
afaict nixos doesnt have much networkd integration yet?
<pie_>
its possible to tell networkd to use dhcpd but idk much about that either
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<sphalerite>
pie_: if you want to try networkd, the key elements are… networking.useNetworkd = true; networking.useDHCP = false; networking.interfaces.wlp4s0/* or whatever your wifi interface is called */.useDHCP = true; /* likewise for ethernet if applicable */
<sphalerite>
pie_: and if it blows up in your face, well, good thing we have rollbacks, right? :D
<sphalerite>
I should write a blog post about getting started with networkd.
<drakonis>
real talk: how do we improve the way we position Nix and related software?
<drakonis>
to sell it better to people
<pie_>
sphalerite: hm :P
<drakonis>
beef up usecase examples for each potential crowd?
<pie_>
sphalerite: well it cant blow up in my face in my VM but on the actual hardware yeah
<pie_>
drakonis: make it a pleasure to work with
<drakonis>
ie: show off all the ways it can end the "it works on my machine" scourge that frequently irritates sysadmins and developers?
<drakonis>
devops and such
<drakonis>
what would making it a pleasure to work with entail?
<drakonis>
cleaning up all the cruft accrued over the years?
<__monty__>
drakonis: Listen to everyone with a problem in the channel and make the problem either impossible or simply improbable through impossibly great documentation?
<drakonis>
also works
<drakonis>
sounds good
<drakonis>
also i have a bad/dumb idea that might work
<drakonis>
might've been previously discussed
<drakonis>
split the repository into "meets standards" and "doesnt really meet standards"
<drakonis>
see also debian main
<drakonis>
but it implies standards enforcement
<__monty__>
I'd love a version of nixpkgs that's dedicated to software conservation.
<drakonis>
might be a good thing to do after pushing the modules rfc
<drakonis>
flakes is perhaps once again a good way to do this
<drakonis>
a software conservation focused nixpkgs is also pretty cool
<drakonis>
for handling the packages that need specific versions of dependencies
<drakonis>
keep nixpkgs as a monorepo but have flakes and whatnot
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<infinisil>
Game idea: Start off with 1 dimension, over time more dimensions are added
<infinisil>
2 -> 3 -> 4 dimensions
<drakonis>
what kind of game?
<infinisil>
And maybe allow players to "focus" on a lower-dimensional space when they are in a higher one
<infinisil>
No idea
<drakonis>
miegakure is neat
<__monty__>
*will probably be if it is ever published, ftfy
<drakonis>
yes
<__monty__>
There's other games with interesting geometry. Hyperrogue is one.
<drakonis>
so, remember the guy that was complaining about companies not paying him for his work?
<drakonis>
turns out that he's backporting from debian lol
<pie_>
man i cannot believe that waiting for a network interface to get an ip address from *somewhere* and then run a script is still so damn hard
<drakonis>
shouldnt the money go to the people that actually made the packages that he's demanding money for? or the people that wrote the software in question?
<drakonis>
this is a clown show
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<pie_>
sphalerite: can i enable networkd and just tell it not to handle any interfaces by default, and then i dont have to make sure it doesnt crosstalk with other stuff?
<pie_>
hm, but i guess module code is written such that networkd and NM are mutex
<pie_>
wait. maybe i can wait for the container up state
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<pie_>
sphalerite: ended up working around it by waiting for the container to come up >_>