gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<drakonis> i found a nixos package on the wild
<drakonis> for building the celeste modapi
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<infinisil> Haha youtube, what the hell
<infinisil> There is now youtube premium, one feature of which is that you can *download* youtube videos
<infinisil> 20 bucks per month!!
<infinisil> They seriously overestimate what I'd pay for this
<infinisil> Oh also you can play videos in the background with it, I guess that's the replacement for youtube red.
<infinisil> Yes those are nice features, but I won't pay 240 per year for this shit
<qyliss^work> woww
<__monty__> Why wouldn't you be able to play videos in the background with youtube?
<qyliss^work> they deliberately don't let you, at least on mobile
<__monty__> Ah, on mobile.
<qyliss^work> they even manage to break it in the browser on iOS now. I don't even understand how.
<infinisil> At least youtube-dl still works (yet)
<qyliss^work> they're going to have a hard time breaking youtube-dl
<qyliss^work> Kind of a pointless cat and mouse game for them
<infinisil> They just recently did break it, but it got adjusted rather quickly again
<wirew0rm> they can pay people for doing the cat and mouse game, youtube-dl (and NewPipe) can't? I think it's more not breaking their own service in the process
<qyliss^work> yeah exactly
<ekleog> the DRM industry shows that cat-and-mouse rarely work
<ekleog> then youtube has more control over time than DRMs, but…
<qyliss^work> I guess they could use Encrypted Media Extensions...
<qyliss^work> (I will never forgive the W3C for that)
<ekleog> given youtube's quality, you can just film your screen and plug your outgoing jack to a micro
<ekleog> good luck fighting that
<infinisil> The only thing that seems to work is to make the legal paid thing *much* more convenient. See patreon and netflix
<qyliss^work> yeah
<infinisil> *cough* anime industry, please take note ^^ *cough*
<qyliss^work> ikr
<qyliss^work> I would LOVE to pay for anime
<qyliss^work> I don't watch much, but that's mostly because it's so damn inconvenient
<infinisil> I'm always torrenting stuff, and crunchyroll is kinda shit and doesn't have most stuff. And it's hard to pay the original creators, the best option being buying merch. But if I buy merch I'll have to pay shipping as well which is hella damn expensive to here in switzerland
<infinisil> Just gimme something patreon like for all anime
<joepie91> anime industry? I think you mean 'the entirety of the cultural and technological production industry'
<joepie91> :P
<joepie91> relatedly, games on GOG are the only games I pay for because I know that I'll get them without DRM bs
<joepie91> well, that and games that are independently sold DRM-free outside of any platform of course
<joepie91> but that's pocket change
<infinisil> joepie91: It's particularly bad with anime I feel. I give lots of money to people in tech and entertainment through patreon
<joepie91> those are probably not massive studios though
<joepie91> (I do throw money at people via patreon now as well)
<qyliss^work> Anime is particularly bad because there's often no legal way to obtain in at all, short of importing a blu ray
<joepie91> I do have to say I've kinda come to dislike the "paid per thing" variant of patreon
<joepie91> I feel like it puts too much pressure on the authors
<infinisil> qyliss^work: I waited with watching Kimi no na wa until I could get the blueray myself :D
<infinisil> joepie91 They can choose it themselves though. Some of them feel more comfortable to have to put effort into something to get money
<infinisil> I've also had people stop monthly payments because they felt bad for not doing much recently
<joepie91> I know, I'm just not convinced that's always as free a choice as it seems
<joepie91> I get the impression that a lot of them do it because they feel it's "only fair" even though it causes stress for them
<__monty__> Nothing wrong with stress.
<joepie91> there are not a lot of statements I disagree with as much as that one :)
<__monty__> Some people need it to get anything done.
<joepie91> pressure != stress
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<__monty__> Stress subsumes pressure.
<infinisil> Well for my memberships, 9 of them use monthly payments and only 2 use per-thing payment
<joepie91> 1 out of 6 in my case
<infinisil> 1 per-thing?
<joepie91> yeah
<srhb> This just in: Lenovo's NVME SSDs are bad.
<srhb> Threw in a Samsung thingy, and now things are proper speedy.
<joepie91> how so?
<srhb> Very latency prone, poor bandwidth.
<joepie91> huh, didn't have that problem with mine
<joepie91> sure it's not just faulty?
<srhb> Hard to tell, can't probe smart data on it :-P
<srhb> Maybe that's not a thing on NVME
<joepie91> eh...
<joepie91> it definitely is
<joepie91> that sounds like faulty to me
<joepie91> might want to poke lenovo about that :P
<srhb> Interesting!
<srhb> I get: Read NVMe SMART/Health Information failed: NVMe Status 0x4002
<srhb> So I guess I should. Groan. I hate RMA processes...
<joepie91> bit of a denvercoder moment, but yeah
<joepie91> all I can find about that error code is crashing systems lol
<srhb> joepie91: Yep, that looks very similar.
<joepie91> srhb: do you have the on-site warranty?
<srhb> denvercoder whyyy, pls tell what it was
<srhb> I do
<joepie91> excellent
<joepie91> makes RMA a lot less painful lol
<srhb> Definitely. I used it on the old one and was soooo happy I got it.
<joepie91> I haven't needed it thankfully but I've heard good things about it
<joepie91> and I'm quite happy to have a "no worries, will be fixed" type warranty
<srhb> When i got the old one it had too many dead pixels, so I immediately used it for that. Was brilliant.
<joepie91> that doesn't require shipping off my laptop for five weeks to Whereverdonia
<joepie91> whenever something fails...
<joepie91> that's the shittiest part of RMAs, being without the $thing for a while
<joepie91> had that problem with my airfryer <.<
<srhb> Yeah, don't want to live with that. :D
<joepie91> they did fix it in the requested manner (replace the whole basket) though, and shipped it back with the Very Expensive DHL option
<joepie91> for some reason
<srhb> Well, neat :P
<joepie91> I feel like they can't possibly have made any profit on me by this point
<joepie91> >.>
<joepie91> thing's heavy, so $ shipping, and it was cheap-ish, certainly not much margin over the original alibaba seller
<joepie91> shipping covered both ways
<joepie91> significant part replaced
<joepie91> plus time spent inspecting the RMA
<joepie91> they seem to have cleaned the inside too
<joepie91> altogether, that probably ate up their $30 margin :D
<srhb> Seems to happen quite a lot :-P
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<drakonis> y'all talking about buying animes, japan's talent at ptgouging
<drakonis> price gouging would make EA and activision execs blush
<drakonis> expensive blurays with a few episodes each lol
<drakonis> also all the merch
<drakonis> then games that did lootboxes before overwatch made it a big thing
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<infinisil> If I were to spend 300 hours for a Nix project, what would you want it to be?
<infinisil> I'm currently thinking of a Nix debugger, or something with Nix and LSP
<andi-> Documentation for beginners? :P
<infinisil> Preferably something technical. Would be for my bachelors thesis
<infinisil> In computer science
<andi-> oh
<samueldr> thesis on writing documentation for beginners?
<andi-> a debugger would be kinda nice.. Or some work on reducing memory footprint, computation required for evals... Not sure how many "long hanging fruits" are there :)
<samueldr> (obviously teasing here)
<andi-> samueldr: I was thinking about writing that ;)
<andi-> or automating writing documentation
<infinisil> Reduced memory footprint sounds nice, but I'm not sure how far I could get with this. This feels like the kind of work I could spend hundreds of hours trying and having nothing to show in the end
<samueldr> yeah, I was trying to put that in words :)
<samueldr> while things like a debugger, things that are tangible, without existing implementation might be easier to *produce* things?
<andi-> infinisil: do we have tools to show us what eats all the memory? :)
<infinisil> Another idea: Writing something like https://abi-laboratory.pro/index.php?view=timeline&l=openssh for nixpkgs
<infinisil> For tracking backwards compatibility
<samueldr> andi-: we have a tool to show us it *does* eat all the memory
<andi-> infinisil: whats the nix specific part there? Tracking the nix binaries instead of $distribution?
<infinisil> samueldr: +1 to the "implementing something nonexistant"
<andi-> samueldr: great, now tell me which parts :P
<infinisil> andi-: Tracking nix attributes and function arguments
<infinisil> Accessible from top-level
<infinisil> Another part would be NixOS backwards compatibility
<samueldr> ,profiling andi-
<{^_^}> andi-: Use NIX_COUNT_CALLS=1 and/or NIX_SHOW_STATS=1 to profile Nix evaluation
<andi-> what would the benefit for us be there given that there is alrady ABI infomration out there? I mean we would not try to re-use old libraies..
<samueldr> (I think it has memory things?)
<andi-> samueldr: yeah but only summaries IIRC?
<andi-> let me try that..
<samueldr> exactly
<samueldr> re-read what I said :P
<infinisil> andi-: I mean the nix evaluation part specifically
<infinisil> So if a commit changes `{ foo = ...; ... }` in top-level to `{ bar = ...; ... }` it would detect that foo got removed which is not backwards compatible
<infinisil> The good thing on doing such a thesis for Nix is that it's almost certain that nobody else did it before me :P
<infinisil> "Reimplementing Nix in Rust" lol
<andi-> maybe do the LSP thing afterall :P
<andi-> there are already some implementations laying around
<infinisil> Maybe I should try to join up with jD<blablabla>
<infinisil> He's started some LSP thing
<andi-> yep
<infinisil> But I'd have to learn Rust first
<andi-> there is also some haskell thing?!? wasn't domen working on that?
<andi-> Or was that just some fancy hnix parser changes he was talking about during NixCon?
<infinisil> Apparently
<infinisil> Doesn't seem to have come very far though
<infinisil> Implementing smart completion sounds like an interesting problem
<ottidmes> infinisil: better debugging support for infinite recursion
<__monty__> infinisil: How to brainwash #nixos into being in favor of statically typing nix : >
<ottidmes> any idea why this python program would loop the moment I write something to the VSLS_AGENT_LOG unix socket? I get what I wrote in repeat, almost as if recv does not consume: https://gist.github.com/ottidmes/9360fc1f0fbd8443506b45c2149388a9#file-vsls-agent-log-py
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<ottidmes> ah, maybe mount --bind follows the symlink, let me check
<ottidmes> nope, still looping (good thing though, otherwise I misunderstood mount --bind)
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