ChanServ changed the topic of #nixcon to: Nixcon 2020 Online is happening Oct 16-17! https://2020.nixcon.org
<fzakaria> feels laggy
<fzakaria> are you all chatting ?
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<worldofpeace> fzakaria: hey
<worldofpeace> we're ready for u
<worldofpeace> can u hear me
<fzakaria> no
<worldofpeace> can u see the chat?
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<fzakaria> yea
<fzakaria> i changed my speaker output
<Henson> puck: just e-mailed you a link to my presentation, please let me know if you've received it
<puck> Henson: got the email! checking now
<puck> exactly 15 minutes, huh :p
<puck> ok, this'll take a bit to arrive
<Henson> puck: is it downloading for you?
<puck> yeah, at like. 200k
<Henson> puck: yep, welcome to my blazing fast upload speed!
<puck> can you /msg me the sha256 maybe? just to make sure it arrives fine :p
<worldofpeace> puck: nbathum do u think u could join the speaker test really quick?
<puck> worldofpeace: yeah
<worldofpeace> it seems though we just lost farid though
<worldofpeace> fzakaria:
<worldofpeace> fzakaria: u there here?
<Henson> worldofpeace: my talk doesn't begin until 11:30 AM EDT. Do I still need to come an hour before the _conference_ starts, or just an hour before my talk starts?
<worldofpeace> I will PM u Henson
<Henson> worldofpeace: ok
<worldofpeace> Henson: should be sent
<samueldr> heh, no one realized that the countdown was wrong on NixOS.org, just pushed a fix
<nbathum> samueldr: good catch
<samueldr> hopefully no one set their calender using that countdown
<samueldr> calendars*
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<drakonis> how many hours until it begins?
<drakonis> oh
<drakonis> i'll miss the opening :(
<drakonis> i'll be sleeping
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<fzakaria> me too; i wanted to here eelco's talk.
<fzakaria> i'll end up watching the uploaded stream later
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<arianvp> Errr
<arianvp> On NixOS 20.03 firefox
<arianvp> "
<arianvp> "No video supported format and MIME type found"
<arianvp> doesn't work on a live cd either. what am I missing?
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<arianvp> aah
<arianvp> stream didnt start yet
<arianvp> that's what I'm missing
<arianvp> :))))
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<FireFly> haha
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<supersandro2000> I am currently on the search for the matrix or discord link. Couldn't find it on 2020.nixcon.org
<supersandro2000> *and
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<AtnNn> supersandro2000: There are links to discord and mastodon here https://nixos.org/community.html
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<NixBridge> g​volpe[discord]: Hey @worldofpeace[freenode] got your email about the soundcheck, let me know if you still want to do it. Though, I assume you're in American timezone 😄
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<madjar> Good morning folks!
<MichaelRaskin> Good morning
<andi-> Morning fellow Nix people
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<puck> morning!
<madjar> Pretty hyped for the conference!
<NixBridge> g​volpe[discord]: Morning folks! :nixos:
<madjar> So, silly timezone question, do I understand correctly that it starts at 11:15 UTC, so 13:15 CEST?
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<puck> madjar: yeah, 11 UTC
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<madjar> Cool, then I've got quite some time of other stuff first!
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<knedlsepp> !!!
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<JosW> 5 4 3 2 1
<risson> 0
<risson> :D
<JosW> any minute now!
<sphalerite> programme says 11:05
<JosW> or did i miss somehting
<JosW> ok
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<MichaelRaskin> 11:00 UTC is not yet that close
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<risson> It's in about 2 hours
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<JosW> Oops
<johanot> I'm all tensed up now, I hurried back to my laptop :D
<JosW> If it is still two hours i will be back again
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<SergeK> What happened to Frederik Rietdijk's talk on integration with Python? Can't find it in schedule anymore
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<etu> Stream not started yet?
<puck> not yet, no
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<srhb> etu: Two hours to go, iiuc :) (13:15 CEST)
<etu> srhb: aaah, I thought it was like *now* :D
* etu is stuck in his own timezone
<nixer|70396> He he, me too 😂
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<MichaelRaskin> It is true that in principle a more aggressive approach of explicitly tagging with «UTC» everywhere any times are mentioned is also possible…
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<puck> oh heya
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<balsoft_> worldofpeace: Hi! Sorry for being a bit late, could we do a sound check? (I have crappy internet at home so needed to move somewhere and couldn't to that before now)
<puck> i might be able to handle it, if worldofpeace isn't around yet
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<balsoft_> puck: that would be fantastic
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<worldofpeace> I'm around
<worldofpeace> I can hop into speaker-test
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<nixer|36023> Hey all, when does the event start? I have various times displayed on the website - from 11h15 to 1pm.
<balsoft> worldofpeace: Hi, could we do a sound check? Sorry for being so late, I have crappy internet at home and could only move to a place with better internet now
<MichaelRaskin> nixer: 1pm is the CEST version of the UTC 11:00, though
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<err404_2> ert63dchk23xcv
<err404_2> ooops :p
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<martyet> o/
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<martyet> puck, everything alright with vpses from us?
<puck> martyet: yep, they are in the jitsi :p
<martyet> cool :)
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<balsoft_> Oh god, that matrix lag (literally 10 minutes) sorry for double messages!
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<nixer|36023> 1pm is the CEST version of the UTC 11:00, though. > I see, so the event starts at 1h15 CEST, 11h15 UTC, right?
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<MichaelRaskin> I am not willing to commit to the exact minutes, but yes, soon after 11:00 UTC.
<MichaelRaskin> (I am not in the organisation team)
<ikce> so, it start in about 1 hour? right?
<MichaelRaskin> Yes
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<MichaelRaskin> Oooohh
<MichaelRaskin> Countdown on stream! Thanks worldofpeace & puck, I guess.
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<fadenb> potentially stupid question: How can I stream the conf using vlc? (I'm currently limited to a FireTV stick on my projector)
<fadenb> I tried feeding it the .mpd file but it does not like it. Same with mpv, just says no video detected
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<nbathum[groggy]> fadenb: great question
<MichaelRaskin> I think the video tag in the source contains m3u8 URL
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<MichaelRaskin> We have tested it before and it worked
<MichaelRaskin> Let me try
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<fadenb> yes
<fadenb> Thank you, https://dash.nixcon.net/dash/master.m3u8 works fine in VLC
<fadenb> Somehow did not see that before :)
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<puck> fadenb: oh, the mpd is a bit tricky to work with, VLC doesn't like it somehow; but the m3u8 works thankfully :)
<MichaelRaskin> Would it be complicated to add some low-level white noise of whatever to the stream?
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<puck> MichaelRaskin: hrm, to confirm it's still running?
<zimbatm> this is the best way to watch nixcon: `nix-shell -p vlc --run "vlc https://dash.nixcon.net/dash/master.m3u8"` :-p
<fadenb> ^^
<stigo> zimbatm: nice :)
<MichaelRaskin> Yes, even with window not in plain view, and also to confirm there is no truly strange breakage
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<MichaelRaskin> zimbatm: have you PR'ed adding this line under the video player?
<srhb> I'm impressed with the level of metaconferencing already. :-)
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<puck> you can also do mpv https://2020.nixcon.org/live.html :p
<risson> zimbatm: of course, you mean `nix run nixpkgs#vlc https://dash.nixcon.net/dash/master.m3u8`
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<nbathum> vachi: welcome :)
<FireFly> srhb: somehow it feels very on-brand :p
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<srhb> FireFly: I agree!
* etu waves to FireFly
<MichaelRaskin> risson: this is not an advice you give to people who might be running Nix stable release with experimental features off
* FireFly waves back
<etu> srhb: So it was a year ago we've met give or take, time flies
<srhb> etu: Indeed! Good times. My first NixCon, I thoroughly enjoyed it and meeting you and others :D
<etu> srhb: Was my first nixcon as well :)
<ma27[m]> I kinda miss Brno though %)
<etu> Brno was weird but fun :)
<srhb> It was an almost unbelievable venue, honestly :)
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<ma27[m]> absolutely! And the 10h train ride was totally worth it IMHO
<etu> Yeah, great place in the middle of a kinda not as nice area :D
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<etu> I got the time to go and visit a friend in Prague on the way home as well which was delightful :)
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<{^_^}> nixcon/2020.nixcon.org#51 (by rissson, 15 seconds ago, open): live: add instructions to watch the stream from vlc with nix-shell
<risson> I have way too much time on my hands
<MichaelRaskin> Nice!
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<srhb> risson++
<{^_^}> risson's karma got increased to 3
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<risson> Thanks :D
<MichaelRaskin> Speaking of meta-conferencing, if you want to watch in browser _and_ use KiwiIRC, it is highly likely that Inspect Element and changing the position/size attributes can create a layout that better fits your specific window size
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<srhb> inb4 "screenshot your nixcon setup" :P
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<MichaelRaskin> I can just tell that _prerecording_ my presentation included a running instance of xev. (The content has absolutely nothing to do with xev)
<srhb> uh oh :D
<tokudan[m]> is there a way to watch the stream outside of the browser?
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<MichaelRaskin> I think there is a command now under the stream?
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<risson> Yes there is!
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<MichaelRaskin> tokudan: nix-shell --packages vlc --run "vlc https://dash.nixcon.net/dash/master.m3u8"
<tokudan[m]> oh, nice. thanks :)
<tokudan[m]> appeared after I reloaded
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<risson> MichaelRaskin: i knew this was a good idea x))
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puck changed the topic of #nixcon to: Nixcon 2020 Online is happening Oct 16-17! Live soon @ https://2020.nixcon.org/live.html
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<MichaelRaskin> risson++
<{^_^}> risson's karma got increased to 4
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<davidak[m]> can i see somewhere how many viewers the stream has? that would be interesting
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<MichaelRaskin> I wonder whether the breakout Jitsi room live list will be published after the first session
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<nixer|61273> I'm hyped. It's 3 am here
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<hexa-> rough
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<risson> that's motivation
<blanky0230> :)
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<wmertens> I'd like to cast the stream to my chromecast - is there a more direct way than casting my tab?
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<MichaelRaskin> wmertens: reload the page — there is m3u8 URL
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<MichaelRaskin> I mean, there already is in the source of the video tag, but now there are instructions for VLC viewing
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<wmertens> hmm and vlc can cast?
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<pinpox> wmertens: pretty sure it can
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<viric> MichaelRaskin: my vlc shows very broken video
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<viric> for that m3u8
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<MichaelRaskin> Hmmm
<pinpox> Mine just froze
<FireFly> huh, works fine for me in mpv
<viric> blocks and colours
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* etu has been streaming the countdown for an hour in mpv
<infinisil> Hello o/
<flokli> same here, looks good
<flokli> hey infinisil :-)
<risson> Same here, but if you reload it restarts just fine
<etu> Heya infinisil
<viric> the first frames look good.
<ryantm> Hello
<etu> ryantm: o/
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<aanderse> thank goodness we're using a reasonable timezone (for me) this year ;-)
<pinpox> etu: mind sharing your mpv command?
<sirikan> hey all
<ryantm> It's 0400 here :)
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<wmertens> pinpox thanks, it does do something but it doesn't actually show the stream ;)
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<aanderse> ryantm: sounds like time for a coffee
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<pinpox> I'm sorry, can't help you then. I have no chromecast myself
<wmertens> np thanks anyway
<etu> puck: yeah, I just did what puck wrote :)
<etu> ryantm: early bird :)
<talyz> hi!
<MichaelRaskin> viric: tried vlc, works fine for me
<pinpox> infinisil: thanks.
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<ryantm> aaron: I haven't drunk caffeine since 2006
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<MichaelRaskin> Of course, if you have throughput issues, overall or towards the network with casting servers…
<aanderse> :D
<viric> new vlc and now it works
<etu> sounds!
<infinisil> Techno rave?
<infinisil> Oh my
<IchBinNichtManue> :-D
<tokudan[m]> barely understandable
<dutchie> ok that is better
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<johanot> disturbing..
<joesventek> Uh oh
<infinisil> There's a lot of echo!
<slowpnir> The robots took over, it seems
<tokudan[m]> yeah, that sounds good
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* pinpox wasnt sure if it was a cool intro or a glitch in the stream
<infinisil> Oh, I just had the stream open multiple times
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<ikce> wath many echoes, but restarting stream in mpv, sound good now
<sirikan> sounds good
<IchBinNichtManue> what's the name of the speaker? didn't hear properly
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<hexa-> IchBinNichtManue: worldofpeace
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<slowpnir> Neither current vlc nor one from nix can decode the stream
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<puck> hrm.
<hexa-> watching with mpv, wfm
<infinisil> IchBinNichtManue: It's worldofpeace
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<IchBinNichtManue> thanks
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<slowpnir> No sound from MPV at all
<sirikan> doing this online worked great for me :)
<puck> slowpnir: try restarting, it is a bit finicky
<Henson> yes, online allows me to participate, too!
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<ghuntley> omg hi2u
<sirikan> what you didn't turn the conference as a nix expression? :p
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<viric> 1st nixcon for me
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<eyJhb> viric: But no Nix swag then :(
<ghuntley> watching on windows workstation cause cbf to dual boot back into nixos (yay flightsim 2020)
<ghuntley> confession <3
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<nbathum> ghuntley: <3
<viric> I don't know what a swag is
<infinisil> Huh there's a jitsi?
<viric> Is the picture steady on sponsors?
<ghuntley> confirmed viric
<nbathum> infinisil: there is no jitsi
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<eyJhb> infinisil: Way more than I had thought of
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puck changed the topic of #nixcon to: Nixcon 2020 Online is happening Oct 16-17! Live now! @ https://2020.nixcon.org/live.html
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<wmertens> got ChromeCast working with VLC: I had to disable my firewall :)
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<etu> noo, stream lagging? just for me?
<wmertens> me too
<ghuntley> Where's the discord link?
<infinisil> Same here
<elorm> Same for me
<flokli> for me audio stopped, but video is still thee
<flokli> s/thee/there/
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<srhb> No problem here.
<hexa-> both work for me
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<ghuntley> Confirming lagging
<MichaelRaskin> WorksForMe
<edef> hmm, i can see us glitching a bit from here
<elorm> Downgraded automatically to 480p and started laggin
<sirikan> stream is working for me
<gvolpe> works fine for me on the browser
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<etu> hi edef! :)
<sirikan> its also streaming on youtube
<MichaelRaskin> I might be insensitive to minor glitches
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<talyz> same, works fine in browser for me
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<domenkozar[m]> lagging here
<edef> Mutable swag link, for those who missed it: https://mutable.io/nixcon
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<viric> MichaelRaskin: worksforme too
<elorm> Link please
<elorm> For youtube
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<pinpox> damn lagging aswell
<Ox4A6F> Hello @all
<viric> elorm: there in the live html
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<pinpox> huh? Stream stopped?
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<nbathum> pinpox: try refreshing
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<elorm> It's working on youtube
<elorm> Thanks
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<sirikan> yep can hear you
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<philipp[m]> Hello!
<Henson> we're here!
<infinisil> o/
<srhb> No void, rapt listeners all around :3
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<arianvp> Ih ave image here
<nbathum> first glitch! :) please bear with us
<arianvp> on the stream
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<eyJhb> They looked fine from here? :|
<hexa-> wfm
<arianvp> I saw it just fine :O
<ryantm> The livestream audio for me on youtube and mpv is pretty terrible.
<risson> I had the slides btw
<Henson> I can see his slides
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<srhb> (I can see the screen just fine)
<Hazelfire> I could see the slides
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<nixer|33763> I can see the slides
* etu is on youtube now instead
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<dutchie> slides look fine
<Henson> I can see them
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<t184256> We can
<sirikan> yep can see
<philipp[m]> It's 2020. There is a bit of void in all of us.
* arianvp sees slides
<gvolpe> hmm I see his screen just fine
<Raito_Bezarius> afaik, we can see the slides
<nixer|55022> I can see the slides
<gianarb> great!
<nixer|51173> can see it
<Raito_Bezarius> yes
<eyJhb> Works fine here
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<hexa-> works
<Raito_Bezarius> we can see it
<xourt> I can see the slides
<hsngrmpf[m]> SLides are fine
<elorm> I can see the slides on youtube
<gianarb> It works!
<talyz> I can see it
<srhb> It's good :)
<nixer|3562> works for me too
<johanot> looks good
<eyJhb> Works
<Hazelfire> Yes, it works
<sirikan> yep 2nd
<nixer|33763> Slides have been working this entire time
<arianvp> works :)
<Raito_Bezarius> (the second slide too)
<viric> I see the slides.
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<infinisil> It good
<FireFly> yeah, seems to work on the stream
<Henson> yes, can see the 2nd slide
<nixer|55022> Goal: Make nix
<supersandro2000> Works
<gvolpe> it's all good
<stigo> slides work :)
<davidak[m]> slides worked perfectly on the website worldofpeace
<cem2ran> works now and also before
<t184256> Second is fine too
<MerlinGttlinger[> slides look fine here
<nixel> Yes, I can see the 2nd slide
<nbathum> thanks
<__Sander__> works for me too
<zimbatm> worldofpeace: all good
<nek0> slides visible
<evalexpr> works
<yannh> yep, could see the slides too
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<pn> slides visible
<nixer|3562> slides are good
<supersandro2000> Switching works
<worldofpeace> please ping nick not me
<pn> both slides are good
<worldofpeace> I can't read here
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<__Sander__> I can see it: "Goal: make Nix more user friendly"
<infinisil> Wow there's many people here!
<nbathum> <--- ping me for problems
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<Raito_Bezarius> I never seen an IRC channel being so active
<puck> there, makes it a bit clearer :p
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<AndreasKallberg> Hype!
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<pinpox> Raito_Bezarius: And at the same time, the youtube chat so empty
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<Raito_Bezarius> pinpox: that's a feature™
<ghuntley> hiya, I'm after a PR review btw - https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/98914
<{^_^}> #98914 (by ghuntley, 2 weeks ago, open): physlock: expose option to mute kernel messages when locked
<Raito_Bezarius> i'm watching using mpv so I don't see any youtube chat
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<Raito_Bezarius> ghuntley: shamelss #nixos plug :p
<risson> ghuntley: never miss an opportunity to get a review right x)
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<ghuntley> exxxacctttllly especially when this many people awake and active
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<infinisil> Will there be some community video chat?
<risson> infinisil: in between the talks, yes
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<infinisil> Neat
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<nbathum> ghuntley: I think yoiu're looking for #nixos channel
<Henson> yes, lots of googling to figure out how NixOS works
<ghuntley> no, I'm being _shameless_
<ghuntley> <3
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<Raito_Bezarius> ghuntley: here you go your review
<sirikan> best thing that i found was that list of peoples dot files
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<infinisil> ,configsearch
<{^_^}> To search public NixOS/Nixpkgs/NixOps configs, use https://search.tx0.co (Ping ${"til" + "pner"} if it acts up again)
<arianvp> ghuntley: this talk must be getting you quite excited right? :P
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<Raito_Bezarius> infinisil: I didn't know about this bot feature
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<ghuntley> ya, it's the elephant in the room that nix requires cult like dedication at first to learn.
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* nbathum passes the cool red-colored drink
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* Raito_Bezarius should have grabbed a drink to the virtual drink stand
<Henson> ghuntley: haha :-)
<eyJhb> Virtual drink stand? At uni atm. should grab a beer. Seems like the perfect time
<MichaelRaskin> ghuntley: if you have learned programming languages from reference documentation before, Nix/Nixpkgs is kind of fine to get in by just reading the three manuals
<Raito_Bezarius> eyJhb: to be fair, me too
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<ghuntley> arianvp: "yaml would be more accessible than toml as industry understands yaml better" :ducks:
<Raito_Bezarius> I didn't know override was leaking memory
<zarel> eyJhb, agreed, gonna grab a beer as well
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<arianvp> wat
<srhb> ghuntley: _out_ :-)
<evernite> MichaelRaskin: don't get started with the manuals...
<vcunat> You can override on command line, but it's not user-friendly.
<vcunat> nix-instantiate -E 'with import ./. {}; knot-resolver.override { extraFeatures = true; }' | xargs nix-store --realize -Q
<arianvp> /votekick ghuntley
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<Raito_Bezarius> vcunat: :D
<rasmusm> MichaelRaskin: witch of the mannuals? nix, nixpkgs, or nixos?
* risson saves the beer for after his talk
<casept> Yeah, my beginner mistake was trying to guess/google my way through it rather than RTFM
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<rasmusm> or if it in pill's?
<risson> casept: you mean read the fucking code, right?
<MichaelRaskin> rasmusm: all the three manuals
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<risson> FRidh: that meant for us to upvote?
<arianvp> no use https://news.ycombinator.com/newest to upvote
<arianvp> HN checks the referer header ;)
<rasmusm> it toke me havlf a year just to undestand where to find the docs
<MichaelRaskin> evernite: if it is not the first language you learn from a manual, starting with manuals is fine
<infinisil> arianvp: Oh shoot!
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<ghuntley> casept: that's the problem though nix isn't googable yet. People _do not read the tombs like the freebsd handbook_ anymore. They want answer to "X error message". Google for answers.
<FRidh> interesting, did not know
* evalexpr has no account on the orange website
<arianvp> yeh they have very aggressive voting ring detection
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<Raito_Bezarius> evalexpr: it's actually better for health
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<rasmusm> but after having used nixos for a year i am starting to like the doc (when what i am looking for are in them)
<srhb> I _love_ the current nixos module "syntax" -- the homogeneity and simplicity of "nix everywhere" is a great boon once you get over the initial learning curve imo :)
<Raito_Bezarius> +1 srhb
<ghuntley> reading from manuals is a bias that will blind nix folks because it's not how the greater tech industry works anymore. I'm not saying manuals are invalid, I'm saying a bridge is needed.
<Raito_Bezarius> though, I'd like the NixOS module to be generalized
<Raito_Bezarius> I feel like it has a lot more to offer
<Raito_Bezarius> Than just an expert system for NixOS
<MichaelRaskin> srhb: if only people did not hide critical intermediate values inside let's
<rasmusm> but i am a part of the problem i am not good at writing doc
<srhb> michaelraskin: Very true.
<infinisil> Raito_Bezarius: It is already very generalized!
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<Raito_Bezarius> infinisil: It's true, we have home-manager :p
<adisbladis> ghuntley: We clearly need "Nixy", sort of like Clippy but for Nix expressions
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<supersandro2000> There are already at least 2 or 3 linter
<MichaelRaskin> srhb: principled use of overlay-like makeExtensible is also fine, and intermediate values feel more natural there, we just never do that
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<Henson> adisbladis: hahah, nixy
<srhb> MichaelRaskin: Also agreed. :) I understand the need to make some things less general though (eg. for supporting cli interaction, what options can I set from the CLI for this package, say) -- but I think ungeneralizing should be somewhat conservative.
<Raito_Bezarius> but I have to admit that the nix list-option would be fire
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<nbathum> anyone know yisroel newmark's contact info?
<casept> supersandro2000: Which you all need to configure manually. I think we need a "blessed" LSP server that shells out to these behind the scenes.
<sirikan> it looks like you are creating a package.... :p
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<Raito_Bezarius> casept: afaik, there is a lsp-nix which is alpha or beta quality
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<infinisil> Hmm, isn't # a problem for shells?
<infinisil> That usually makes the right hand side be a comment
<srhb> infinisil: Only zsh users I think
<Raito_Bezarius> srhb: fish too maybe
<MichaelRaskin> srhb: I would gladly switch to whatever gets declared the proper way, just make sure there is inspectability, and also referential transparency and not that global namespace mess
<adisbladis> srhb: Fish too
<jul1u518> I think you need a space after # for it to be interpreted as a comment
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<srhb> MIchaelRaskin: Fair. I'm skeptical. But interested. :-)
<danieldk> haven't had any problems with nix flakes and # in zsh
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<ghuntley> whatever happens, we "python 2 -> python 3" nixpkgs. The value of nix is nixpkgs IP.
<infinisil> Ah I think it's an option that's turned off by default in zsh
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<ghuntley> *\we can't
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<MichaelRaskin> srhb: to be honest, I am sometimes skeptical on our ability to avoid even some way simpler pitfalls…
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<andi-> What is the cost of having more features (that other languages already built) into nix? Will I also need a `nix integration-tests` at some point? I wonder whats wrong with just `nix-build -A doc`
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<arianvp> andi-: yeh agree. I want _less_ things to learn
<LnL> MichaelRaskin: I think (or hope) the extends is intended to compose modules in a non global way, compared to the current imports
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<arianvp> but if `nix doc` is just a simple alias to `xdg-open (nix build #.doc) im fine with it
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<MichaelRaskin> On the slide I see config with no specification which module should get it
<MichaelRaskin> That's worrying
<Raito_Bezarius> andi-: I don't think that nix flakes doc replace nix-build -A doc
<andi-> arianvp: I think Nix should be a tool build things not a very opinionated thing that doesn't allow the customisations a normal nix-build would.
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<arianvp> just like nix-build is nix-store --realise $(nix-instantiate)
<arianvp> :P
<andi-> Raito_Bezarius: but why do we need it then?
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<Raito_Bezarius> nix expression documentation and documentation of your code might not be exactly the same
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<infinisil> I think `nix flakes doc` is only for rendering docs of the Nix modules, not documentation of the project
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<MichaelRaskin> andi-++
<{^_^}> andi-'s karma got increased to 39
<Raito_Bezarius> you could say that your project is about nix flakes doc and then the docs of the Nix modules and the doc of the project becomes kinda the same :D
<FRidh> indeed. Packages docs is separate.
<andi-> Even that. If nix wants to continue providing eternal backwards compat we should strive for more generic solutions instead of ad-hoc additional commands.
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<FRidh> *packaged
<Raito_Bezarius> andi-: Well, currently, that's an idea/proposal
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<andi-> Raito_Bezarius: I know :)
<Raito_Bezarius> :)
<balsoft_> I have some doubts about nix.toml, the beauty of Nix is how uniform everything is
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<NinjaTrappeur> +1
<andi-> but seeing how `nix …` commands are being refactored right now I am worried.
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<balsoft_> I could get behind simplifying a format of flake.nix
<davidak[m]> nbathum: great talk! question: was Dhall considered? why was TOML choosen?
<Henson> need a short URL for that last one
<gvolpe> FYI: The Discord-IRC bridge has stopped working since the talk started.
<srhb> Thanks Eelco! :)
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<SomeoneSerge> @FRidh Hi, will there be a talk about Python ecosystem in Nix?
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<FRidh> SomeoneSerge: unfortunately not
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<Taneb> Question: What sort of options does "module.package" have? (it was mentioned in the module.hello example)
<ghuntley> In case you missed it the code that is being presented is at https://github.com/tweag/nix-ux
<gvolpe> Eelco, will you share the slides of the talk?
<nbathum> gvolpe: good to know, lemme open discord
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<Raito_Bezarius> Thanks niksnut :)
<__Sander__> I'm curious to know if there's a way to conveniently construct multiple instances of a package
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<Raito_Bezarius> __Sander__: what do you mean?
<__Sander__> this is not something we commonly use (there is typically one)
<Raito_Bezarius> multiple versions?
<__Sander__> multiple versions, a variant with certain options enabled/disabled
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<__Sander__> or a debug/release version
<Raito_Bezarius> if you have a builder of derivation
<piegames1> worldofpeace: Maybe you can paste the question into the Jitsi chat in addition to reading it out aloud for the speaker.
<Raito_Bezarius> you could just do somePackage_v1 = buildPackage "1" …; etc.
<srhb> __Sander__: I mean, it's usually just a function that generates a package, that you feed the relevant variables that creates the differences :)
<LambdaDuck> Does this solution sacrifice flexibility compared to the current solution?
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<hexa-> piegames1: I guess that would generate a notification sound on the stream :D
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<Raito_Bezarius> it's a shame he don't talk about Dhall
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<abathur> toml = goldilocks' fav
<piegames1> hexa-: Oh. Oups ^^
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<ehmry> Raito_Bezarius: thats easy pretty easy to do though
<ghuntley> dhall, the www.noyaml.com option of choice (tm). seriously that entire website exists to advertise dhall.
<infinisil> LambdaDuck: toml will be less flexible than Nix yeah
<viric> Is there a global consensus that NixOS modules are good and easy and all that? I find them hard to debug because they are very intertwined compared to reading nixpkgs.
<domenkozar[m]> if the point is to make it easy for beginners than Dhall is a bad choice
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<andi-> I didn't expect this to be questions /o\
<ehmry> right
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<andi-> nbathum: worldofpeace: ^
<LambdaDuck> infinisil: But the flake modules are as flexible as the current version?
<Raito_Bezarius> andi-: :p
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<hexa-> nbathum: worldofpeace: I think questions should be explicitly addressed to worldofpeace
<infinisil> LambdaDuck: I think that should be the case yeah
<hexa-> everything else gets kinda messy
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<LambdaDuck> Nice!
<eyJhb> hexa-: worldofpeace is not "here"
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<hexa-> eyJhb: they are picking up questsion from "here"
<Raito_Bezarius> hexa-: wop is not reading the channel here
<MichaelRaskin> Question, if there is time: this config={} override in the slides, without saying which input is configured. What are the scoping rules currently planned?
<hexa-> ok
<eyJhb> Seems like nbathum, puck and edef are the ones to address
<ghuntley> toml is indeed better choice for beginners (important) but shame about types.
<puck> mostly nbathum and worldofpeace :p
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<srhb> Good to hear re. not mysterious. I think that's the scary bit for many people -- special cases over generalization :)
<offlinehacker> This reminds me a bit to, I mean the configuration part https://cuelang.org/
<eyJhb> puck: but was worldofpeace here?
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<Henson> thank you Eelco!
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<eyJhb> They said earlier that they was not reachable here
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<nixer|91747> thank you for the talk :)
<Raito_Bezarius> :D :D :D
<etu> Thanks niksnut!
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<infinisil> viric: I think there is, NixOS modules are very composable, very generic, have decent error messages, type checking, etc. I think debugging infinite recursion might be the hardest thing about it
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<zhenya> clap
<viric> infinisil: the infinite recursions are not rare there
<thoradam> 👏
<sirikan> clap
<Raito_Bezarius> 👏
<infinisil> :clap:
<risson> Clap clap clap!
<nixer|98186> :+1:
<Taneb> Clap!
<dtzWill> Clap clap clap
<nixer|33763> Wahoo!!!
<stigo> *clap* *clap*
<sirikan> 1
<arianvp> *****
<elorm> clap!!
<balsoft_> 👏
<NinjaTrappeur> clap
<nixer|91747> 111111111
<scott> 👏
<nixer|51173> 1
<dtzWill> Craaazzyy
<t184256> clap
<talyz> clap!!!!!
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* Henson claps really loudly
<claudiii> 👏
<phirsch> +1
<joesventek> woohoooo
<claymager> clap
<andi-> 👏👏👏
<jul1u518> 👏
<__Sander__> woohooo
<aanderse> 1111111!!111!!1one!!!1111
<nixer|62658> +1
<MerlinGttlinger[> 👏
<dtzWill> <3
<LambdaDuck> clap
<Ox4A6F> :clap: :+1:
<b42> clap.gif
<danieldk> +1
<infinisil> 🙌
<evernite> :ckaaaap:
<pn> 👏
<Hazelfire> Clap Clap Clap
<Raito_Bezarius> 👏👏
<lnlsn> yay
<Henson> clap clappity clap clap
<nixer|98186> thanks a lot!
<lnlsn> yay
<lnlsn> yay
<roberth> 👏👏👏
<nek0> 2
<SomeoneSerge> 111111111111111111111
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<lnlsn> yay
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<ajanse> Wahoo!!
<supersandro2000> 1111
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<wmertens> 1111111111111111111
<pachumicchu> 👏
<phirsch> 👏
<hsngrmpf[m]> 👏
<nixer|83233> 111111
<__Sander__> YEEEaAAAHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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<offlinehacker> 👏👏👏👏
<jtojnar> 👏👏👏
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<adisbladis> 🌮
<vcunat> 👏
<nixer|3562> thx for the talk
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<domenkozar[m]> Go Eelco :)
<makefu> +1 and like
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<Raito_Bezarius> 🔥🔥
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<Raito_Bezarius> 🚀
<fgaz> 👏
<offlinehacker> can't wait this gets integrated in nix
<regnat> 👏🏻👏🏻🏻
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<ryantm> :clap:
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<terlar> 🙏
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<Henson> :-(
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<AtnNn> I wonder if these modules can be made compatible with older nix just like flake-compat does for flakes
<aanderse> where are the breakout rooms? jitsi?
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<aanderse> thanks!
<MichaelRaskin> Yes
<nixer|91747> I would assume so AtnNn, unless it was made a language construct
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<danieldk> and if so, where is the jitsi instance ;)
<knedlsepp> 👏
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<domenkozar[m]> btw, please vote for https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24799659
<edef> https://jitsi.nixcon.org/nix-modules is the place to be
<nbathum> edef: thanks!
<edef> domenkozar[m]: direct links are the path to getting our link killed
<danieldk> edef: cool, thanks!
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<Raito_Bezarius> wow, there is a lot of people
<domenkozar[m]> edef: oh right, make sure to find it in the thread list!
<edef> domenkozar[m]: only upvote stuff from the "newest" page, ideally navigate there by hand from the homepage
<wmertens> isn't there spam protection on hackernews so that you can't all vote on a direct link?
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<domenkozar[m]> edef: thanks for that!
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<viric> infinisil: I think I don't like nixos modules that much. Do you use those modules thing, MichaelRaskin ?
<LambdaDuck> Yes, nix is a lot of incantations for me now, so it would be very helpful to reduce it
<MichaelRaskin> Nope
<Raito_Bezarius> what's going on in the nix modules jitsi?
<Raito_Bezarius> I'm hearing nothing
<MichaelRaskin> I even complain about them in my talk
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<infinisil> viric: Would love to know some specifics about why you don't like them
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<viric> MichaelRaskin: Thank you.
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<viric> infinisil: too complicated. :)
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<LambdaDuck> I hear keyboards in the jitsi
<FRidh> yikes moving to a next talk is tricky for those that intend to watch specific talks
<piegames1> Is there a way to listen only to the breakout rooms only?
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<piegames1> Is there a way to listen to the breakout room without participating?
<piegames1> (Jitsi is notorious for enabling the mic accidentally)
<domenkozar[m]> So go to https://news.ycombinator.com, click "New" and upvote nixcon!
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<fgaz> Raito_Bezarius: That's because there's nothing going on :-P
<Henson> FRidh: agreed
<Raito_Bezarius> piegames1: just muting yourself?
<Raito_Bezarius> fgaz: makes sense
<infinisil> viric: Oh wanna discuss in https://jitsi.nixcon.org/nix-modules ?
<Raito_Bezarius> well I'll just watch the next talk
<Raito_Bezarius> I'm interested if something comes out of the Nix Modules breakout room
<piegames1> Raito_Bezarius: And then Jisti will re-enable the microphone after the next connection hickup
<Raito_Bezarius> It'd be good if someone takes notes
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<Raito_Bezarius> piegames1: wow
<infinisil> viric: Actually never mind, it's a bit messy there
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<viric> infinisil: I have only superficial thoughts about that. :)
<viric> haha
<viric> infinisil: I'll attend the regular nixcon program
<abathur> yes piegames1 I was able to join the jitsi room after denying the site vid/mic perms
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<infinisil> Is discord bridged to here?
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<infinisil> Probably not
<Raito_Bezarius> infinisil: I heard it was broken
<eyJhb> infinisil: should be
<eyJhb> Ohh. that is another thing then
<LambdaDuck> The discord bridge died
<eyJhb> worldofpeace: said that it was brigded, but generally the discord bridge is a little broken
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<maralorn> Can someone point eelco to look into the jitsi chat for questions?^^
<infinisil> niksnut: ^
<Raito_Bezarius> maralorn: someone pinged him afaik
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<LambdaDuck> He has answered questions in the jitsi chat
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<maralorn> AH, already saw it.
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<dtz> what's the discord? O:)
<dtz> (and jitsi is "only" for the breakout rooms, right?)
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<infinisil> Yeah I haven't seen any discord link anywhere
<nbathum> *TO ASK A QUESTION DURING QA, JOIN #nixcon-qa . please ping me with each question, so I can keep track *
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<Raito_Bezarius> dtz: right@jitsi
<worldofpeace> yall I asking bigger after this talk
<sirikan> discord on community page on nixos.org site
<worldofpeace> I want too seeee 111111111111111111111111111
<ghuntley> wait.. chat roulette. _that_ website?
<terlar> Did anyone use podman within nix/nix-shell, someone mentioned that being able to run without a daemon
<Raito_Bezarius> ghuntley: correct
<Raito_Bezarius> worldofpeace: sure :-)
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<casept> terlar: Podman requires properly configuring user namespaces on most distros
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<casept> Which needs root and still doesn't work on mac
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<Raito_Bezarius> Agreed, that development shell is one of the killer
<adisbladis> terlar: Yes, that works provided you have two things: user namespaces and subuid/subgid mappings
<terlar> Ah, I see, I was hoping it could be a solution for running docker within Nix, as we have some teams who want to use docker for their tests. I was hoping that could potentially solve that.
<Raito_Bezarius> terlar: you can run Docker in Nix
<dtz> sirikan: thanks! been away for a while :3
<Raito_Bezarius> You can declaratively manage your Docker containers from Nix
<Raito_Bezarius> but it requires some systemd stuff
<Raito_Bezarius> to set up namespaces
<casept> terlar: Or use arion for nix + docker dev envs
<terlar> Yeah, many developers are on macOS, so that is kind of a requirement as well
<adisbladis> terlar: On unstable/20.09 subuid/subgid mappings are set up properly already. On most other distros (at least ubuntu & fedora) it's already done since a long while.
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<adisbladis> terlar: In any case, using podman in nix-shell should work.
<infinisil> terlar: NixOS tests can be used for that, which run a whole NixOS within qemu
<sirikan> question: is there a nice way to have a nix shell that doesn't use your home config files. like i would like to put work settings in a shell instead of my own for git.
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<terlar> adisbladis: Cool, I will try it out
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<adisbladis> terlar: Are you on unstable?
<nixer|21667> using dockerTools.buildLayeredImage in production here too but the /nix in the images are ridiculuously big
<Raito_Bezarius> sirikan: --pure + changing working dir + user I suppose, but I'm not sure it's enough
<Raito_Bezarius> nixer|21667: what kind of size?
<adisbladis> terlar: Anyway, just check your /etc/subuid & /etc/subgid
<infinisil> nixer|21667: It should only include what's necessary, nothing extra
<maralorn> I really wonder, would transitioning all of nixpkgs to those modules be more work than bolting some typechecking on it. (Or maybe can we do it in one pass?)
<adisbladis> If those exist and contain your user you should be fine
<terlar> adisbladis: Personally yes, but for the company we use the latest release-20.03 branch, soon switching to the newer one
<Raito_Bezarius> nixer|21667: I succeed to get smaller images than Docker using dockerTools
<Raito_Bezarius> than what docker build would give me*
<adisbladis> terlar: Right, quite a lot of changes re podman for 20.09
<pinpox> Hm, not really convinced about ading toml, seems like additional complication only to avoid writing nix files
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<NixBridge> f​arlion[discord]: > the discord<~> IRC bridge is back?
<NixBridge> f​arlion[discord]: @nbathum Looks like you un-jinxed it 😉
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<nixer|21667> i've not looked into it to be honest, but it's much more than an equivalent alpine version surprisingly (3x or more)
<Raito_Bezarius> it seems like indeed far
<Raito_Bezarius> farlion*
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<Raito_Bezarius> nixer|21667: hm, weird
<casept> nixer|21667: You might want to take a look at what's bloating your closure. There are tools for that on github, though I don't remember the name RN
<aanderse> pinpox: personally i like the nix language because it is nice and simple *shrug*
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<pinpox> aanderse: agreed.
<Raito_Bezarius> pinpox: agreed too, but I didn't feel like TOML was a replacement but more like an optional way to do things
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<eyJhb> Did a toilet just flush?
<pinpox> I'd rather not have a mix of languages pop up when googeling something
<Raito_Bezarius> eyJhb: hahahahahaha
<ghuntley> hey did everyone notice that shell.nix exists in the new hashicorp product "waypoint"?
<eyJhb> I 100% sounded like a toilet. Not being mean, but everyone that has a wireless headset, please do not take it with you if you are in the call :|
<Raito_Bezarius> ghuntley: do you mean that waypoint uses Nix somewhere
<eyJhb> ghuntley: It have been discussed in #nixos-chat
<Raito_Bezarius> or waypoint copies Nix-like features?
<LambdaDuck> I like giving the date of the pinned nixpkgs in the in the name of it.
<adisbladis> I think TOML misses the point, because it's not the surface syntaxs that is the problem imo
<eyJhb> The author or Hashicorp have made a shoutout as well
<pinpox> ghuntley: nice find. I've been searching for more hashicorp service options in nixpkgs lately, seems there only is one for consul
<Raito_Bezarius> eyJhb: :D :D :D
<Raito_Bezarius> (@toilet)
<pinpox> (nomad, vault, etc. would be a great addition)
<Raito_Bezarius> isn't Vault in NixOS module?
<Raito_Bezarius> isn't Vault a NixOS module*
<niksnut> Raito_Bezarius: right, TOML is not a replacement
<ghuntley> pinpox: speak with arianvp he's been hacking on things for nomad :p
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<Raito_Bezarius> niksnut: it makes sense
<ghuntley> <not the actual product but expressions for nixpkgs for usage with nomad>
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nbathum changed the topic of #nixcon to: Nixcon 2020 is Live now! @ https://2020.nixcon.org/live.html To ask speakers questions join #nixcon-qa
<arianvp> IOHK has a nixos modules for bootstrapping vault/consul/nomad clusters
<abathur> ghuntley: hashimoto's even been in some of our IRC channels
<Raito_Bezarius> I want Vault baked in NixOps
<pinpox> arianvp: If you are currently working on PR's, would you mind mentioning me so I can track progress and maybe help?
<Raito_Bezarius> I will talk a bit on it in my talk
<pinpox> arianvp: @pinpox
<arianvp> I am working on nix-nomad which is a project to use NixOS module system to define nomad jobs
<gchristensen> good morning nixcon!
<Raito_Bezarius> good morning gchristensen !
<arianvp> think NixOps without thinking about servers
<SomeoneSerge> I feel like TOML is sort of a hard constraint, enforcing that one can resolve and check flake dependencies and retrieve whatever metadata - without _evaluating_ any expressions and without downloading the actual repos
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<arianvp> but just "jobs"
<aanderse> gchristensen: 👋
<Raito_Bezarius> arianvp: does it taste like cloud?
<Raito_Bezarius> :p
<infinisil> arianvp: Link?
<ikwildrpepper> arianvp: nice, is it already available somewhere (nix-nomad)
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<Raito_Bezarius> 👏 for domenkozar[m] !!!
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<arianvp> No it's not open sourced yet at this point
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* domenkozar[m] blushes
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<arianvp> I was experimenting with the idea if I can get a corporate sponsor for its development
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<nbathum> breakout room: https://jitsi.nixcon.org/chatroulette
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<rasmusm> only 37% do know abut nix, the PR team are working
<Raito_Bezarius> give them one year
<rasmusm> *not know
<Raito_Bezarius> they'll bring it down to 10%
<pinpox> arianvp: I've been setting up consul+nomand+vault clusters with terraform, thinking about going full nix
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<niksnut> SomeoneSerge: right, with flake.nix we actually have some special checks to prevent computation to get the flake metadata
<rasmusm> i would have gueass it was a lot higher
<pinpox> in terms of administation I'm hoping for something better than terraform+ansible for deployment, nixOS would be great
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<ghuntley> @pinpox: check out https://github.com/input-output-hk/bitte as well
<infinisil> Ehh
<infinisil> It would be no problem to give him an extra couple minutes and the qna as well
<Raito_Bezarius> this is what they've done
<Raito_Bezarius> just the speaker might misunderstood
<Raito_Bezarius> I wonder how many people pre-recorded the talk
<Raito_Bezarius> pinpox: depends on what you do for deployment I suppose
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<arianvp> pinpox: the IOHK code uses terraform for the infra; NixOS for the boxes
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<pinpox> ghuntley: starred to read later, thanks!
<ryantm> The stream audio is working a lot better for me now.
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<pinpox> Raito_Bezarius: The goal is to provide a infrasturcture, where developers can easily deploy containers without caring about hardware
<Raito_Bezarius> excellent answer
<zimbatm> you need a Nix remote builder to build docker images on macOS
<Raito_Bezarius> pinpox: so I guess you would want nix-nomad
<Raito_Bezarius> pinpox: check out the arianvp example
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<infinisil> zimbatm: Or if all derivations you need are in cache.nixos.org, it would also work
<zimbatm> macOS: nix-build --argstr system "x86_64-linux"
<zimbatm> indeed
<pinpox> Raito_Bezarius: thanks, doing so right now
<arianvp> feel free to bug me to work on open sourcing it =)
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<nixer|9977> noooo I missed it
<srhb> Thank you! ^_^ clapclap
<jul1u5> 👏👏👏
<stigo> 11!1111👋👋👋
<Henson> thank you!
<talyz> does dockerTools.buildLayeredImage actually need docker?
<Henson> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<nixer|3319> Thanks a lot !
<Henson> ?👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<MichaelRaskin> Thanks!
<sirikan> zimbatm: been watching your youtube channel. Helped me learn a lot :)
<infinisil> And you need to make sure to only make the `contents` argument of `build[Layered]Image` the linux derivations
<Ox4A6F> :clap:
<yannham> clapclap!
<Raito_Bezarius> 👏👏
<nixer|83233> thank you ! 1111
<sirikan> 1
<risson> Clap clap!
<sirikan> clap
<arianvp> talyz: no
<niksnut> 👏👏👏
<nixer|3319> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<nbathum> breakout room: https://jitsi.nixcon.org/chatroulette
<nixer|3319> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<dtz> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<adisbladis> talyz: Nope, no docker required.
<davidak[m]> 👋
<aanderse> 👏
<LambdaDuck> Clap Clap Clap
<dtz> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<Raito_Bezarius> thanks balsoft_ !!
<bhipple> :clap:
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<MerlinGttlinger[> 👏
<Henson> nixer|12329: you can probably rewind on the Youtube feed to watch it
<talyz> clap!
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<SomeoneSerge> :clap: :clap: :clap:
<etu> 👏🏻
<nixer|40984> clap
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<pn> 11111111
<claudiii> 👏 👏 👏
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<pn> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<zakame> 👏 👏 👏
<zimbatm> 11111111
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<talyz> arianvp adisbladis: right, then I guess that's how :)
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<domenkozar[m]> great talk :)
<ghuntley> hey folkx, here's a super huge challenge. How do we get more people knowing that nixcon is on right now? Like goto reddit. Do people know? Orange website? yada
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<ryantm> 👏
<ghuntley> Then go do it!
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<roberth> 👏👏👏
<Cynthia> ghuntley: we don't want to overwhelm the infra :o
<arianvp> avoid success at all cost
<risson> ghuntley: find the NixCon link in https://news.ycombinator.com/newest and upvote it!
<Henson> haha
<nixer|23921> Are we back to original schedule?
<ghuntley> risson: I already have, others need to as well
<domenkozar[m]> ghuntley: I just posted to reddit
<ghuntley> !link to reddit
<ikwildrpepper> ghuntley: I could tweet on nixos_org that you get free t shirts if you join? ;)
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* Henson grabs his megaphone and runs outside
<nixer|23921> wait 45 min for the next one?
<risson> ikwildrpepper: DO IT
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<srhb> worldofpeace said 5 minutes break, so I think not :)
<ghuntley> oh shit hahaha I'm going to use twitter shitoberfest account to advertise.
<infinisil> Is there a general hang-out room?
<ikwildrpepper> worldofpeace is doing a great job
<Raito_Bezarius> infinisil: it's here
<ghuntley> What should the tweet be - http://twitter.com/shitoberfest
<Raito_Bezarius> ikwildrpepper: +1
<srhb> They are :)
<risson> ghuntley: go for it
<infinisil> I mean a general jitsi room
<viric> ikwildrpepper: worldofpeace is a native English speaker, right?
<nixer|23921> K, didn’t catch that, thanks
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<gchristensen> viric: yeah, why?
<risson> ghuntley: You yourself said you were, and I quote, _shameless_
<ghuntley> I am
<ghuntley> Marketing does that to you
<viric> gchristensen: tougher to understand than the non-natives that talk :)
<gchristensen> ouch, viric
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<adisbladis> gchristensen: https://cfp.nixcon.org/nixcon2020/talk/R7LSXJ/ neato :)
<gchristensen> adisbladis: heck yeah, nice to see Henson!
<srhb> zimbatm: Direct link voting was warned against, due to antispam measures
<Raito_Bezarius> > way to our embedded baseball pitch tracking machines installed in ball fields in the US.
<viric> gchristensen: that's a common rule, to understand non-natives better.
<{^_^}> error: syntax error, unexpected IN, expecting ')', at (string):325:64
<ikwildrpepper> viric: really, i though they were actually very easy to understand
<infinisil> zimbatm: It's already been posted before, and I think the consensus was to only upvote it from "new" to not make HN slow it down
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<Raito_Bezarius> reproducible baseball
<Raito_Bezarius> that's the kind of talk I like
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<Henson> gchristensen: nice to see you too!
<infinisil> There's FRidh's post ^
<ikwildrpepper> I like the styling of the sponsor page
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<infinisil> In there somewhere
<viric> ikwildrpepper: gchristensen: oh it is not something bad on worldofpeace; it's my problem.
<ikwildrpepper> (on the stream)
<gchristensen> ah :)
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<viric> People that get tought on "this is how you pronounce English" reach something easier for me to understand than those who get English from the environment. :)
<viric> (so far)
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<viric> MichaelRaskin: when you said "your talk". What your talk?
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<risson> ghuntley: omg you did it
<ehmry> yea, common english is kinda something you have to learn as an american
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<MichaelRaskin> Bridging the stepping stones
<MichaelRaskin> Tomorrow
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<viric> MichaelRaskin: ah ok!
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<t184256> go balsoft!
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<arianvp> 0xBAAAA
<worldofpeace> yall better put those digits
<worldofpeace> yes arianvp
<adisbladis> worldofpeace: But hex is just binary representation!!
<arianvp> 0655
<worldofpeace> u got it
<infinisil> > builtins.currentTime
<{^_^}> 1602850967
<arianvp> dont put a hex on the speaker though
<infinisil> {^_^}: Nice
<worldofpeace> adisbladis: shit you're right
<ghuntley> !! REQUEST - update the youtube stream description inviting people to join https://www.irccloud.com/irc/freenode.net/channel/nixcon to chat
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<worldofpeace> I'm wondering what format then
<Ox4A6F> 0x2B31
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<ghuntley> otherwise folks are chatting in the youtube stream
<risson> ghuntley: and #nixcon-qa to ask questions :D
<andi-> > builtins.getFlake "nix"
<{^_^}> attribute 'getFlake' missing, at (string):325:1
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<jtojnar> worldofpeace: unary
<worldofpeace> Jan Tojnar: thanks
<kirelagin> Sorry, I missed it, what are those digits everyone is talking about? :/
<arianvp> it's our form of applause
<arianvp> because we dont have hands on IRC
<FireFly> oh digits....... I see
<infinisil> > random
<{^_^}> 3425541886
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<kirelagin> andi-: {^_^}: nix-shell -p nixUnstable
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<srhb> infinisil: That doesn't seem pure :o
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<adisbladis> kirelagin: Fyi {^_^} is a bot
<infinisil> > random
<{^_^}> 3425541886
<srhb> Phew.
<infinisil> !
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<kirelagin> oh I see
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<stoile> I missed the link to the slides in github. Can someone post it here?
<serokell_jonn> Sure, one sec
<viric> I don't yet understand flakes but I agree with all the problems. Promising.
<risson> Not yet public though
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<stoile> Ah, ok. Thanks. <3
<ghuntley> niv vs flakes. Actually I use git submodules of nixpkgs as it makes it super easy to just hack stuff. Am I the only one?
<kirelagin> I think it will become public after the talk (not exactly sure why... probably that's so that we all listen to the talk :)
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<stoile> Makes sense. ;-)
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<adisbladis> ghuntley: Nah, I also use nixpkgs as a submodule of my config
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<adisbladis> It's a pretty common setup afaik
<ryantm> A list of derivations? heresy
<ghuntley> I use dependabot to automatically send in PR's to update the submodule ref.
<infinisil> Yeah using nixpkgs as a git submodule too
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<infinisil> Very easy to make quick changes
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<rasmusm> ghuntley: i only have had problems with git submodules in generel and niv dont support it :(
<pastry> henlo
<fadenb> Dependabot understands nix ecosystem?
<rasmusm> but i like the idear of them :)
<arianvp> no but it understands submodules :P
<SomeoneSerge> Tbg, git submodules sounds like one of those "easy", rather than easy, solutions:)
<adisbladis> fadenb: I'm guessing it understands submodules
<fadenb> Ah, I was hopeful for a moment :p
<ghuntley> Have nixpkgs as submodule, then dependabot will send you PR's every day, thus invoking CI, if build fails well that's great feedback.
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<adisbladis> SomeoneSerge: It's pretty easy, but depends on your goal.
<ghuntley> Personally I auto configure github actions to automatically merge dependabot PR's that go green. https://github.com/ghuntley/ghuntley/blob/trunk/.github/workflows/auto-approve.yml
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<adisbladis> I wouldn't recommend submodules as a locking mechanism except if you want to hack on nixpkgs itself
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<adisbladis> But if you want to hack on nixpkgs the ergonomics are pretty great
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<ghuntley> re: $ nix shell git+https://example.com/private - getting nixery vibes :D
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<pn> are flakes still experimental?
<adisbladis> pn: Yes
<casept> Is there a timeline for stabilizing them somewhere?
<arianvp> not yet
<kirelagin> pn: I mean, technically, yes, but Eelco is already writing blogposts introducing them, so...
<arianvp> the was an RFC but it was rejected I think
<arianvp> or at least closed
<infinisil> rfcs#49
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/49 (by edolstra, 1 year ago, closed): [RFC 0049] Flakes
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<infinisil> (Not rejected)
<ghuntley> domenkozar[m]: what's the reddit link for nixcon?
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<infinisil> Hm how do flakes handle cross compilation?
<arianvp> they dont.
<arianvp> but you can use the same pkgsCross as nixpkgs already gives
<infinisil> Ah, guess that works yeah
<arianvp> inside your flake. . but it means your cross-compiled aarch64 package will be under the x86_64 namespace; which is akward
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<worldofpeace> yall, just a reminder to ask good questions into #nixcon-qa
<worldofpeace> hope that's right nbathum ^
<nbathum> yes please. this room is very difficult to pick up all the questions from
<gchristensen> worldofpeace: you're doing an amazing job, thank you!
* FireFly agrees
<nbathum> gchristensen: ++
<pn> 👏
<niksnut> +1
<risson> nbathum: are you insinuating that we spam this chan?
<risson> worldofpeace++
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 0o306
<sirikan> +FF
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<ehmry> infinisil: you can define cross-pairs in flake.nix - https://git.sr.ht/~ehmry/genodepkgs/tree/master/flake.nix#L7
<nbathum> gchristensen++
<{^_^}> gchristensen's karma got increased to 346.00000000000006
<viric> typing # in shell ...
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<viric> doesn't make it a comment?
<adisbladis> viric: Yeah that needs to be fixed..
<adisbladis> viric: It depends on your shell
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<worldofpeace> gchristensen: DIVA!
<viric> mh. in bash it gets it after dot.
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<dutchie> normally if it's inside a word it doesn't
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<yannham> it works in my zsh too
<viric> news to me.
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<pastry> is there a way to list the rooms in the jitsi?
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<nbathum> pastry: not currently
<LnL> typing comments on the cli is an option you have to enable IIRC
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<Henson> gchristensen: haha, I like how you somehow also have 60 femtokarma
<arianvp> LnL: sure but I might call nix inside a script right?
<viric> I often put # in front of a command if I want to put it in history for later run
<adisbladis> Hm, xonsh `.#lol` interprets # as a comment
<gchristensen> hah
<adisbladis> Think of all the dozens of xonsh users
<LnL> arianvp: in a new shell it's even more unlikely that the option is on
<pastry> btw if you want to do inline comments in bash, for example if youre splitting lines, you can do:
<t184256> xonsh users sad
<LambdaDuck> Will every flake be fored to do the builtins.mapAttrs thing if they want to support more than one platform?
<pastry> command stuff `#hello` \...
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<adisbladis> t184256: Clearly time to patch cpython
<talyz> adisbladis: :D
<ehmry> .#foo isn't valid in rc shell :(
<arianvp> LambdaDuck: well you could just manually write out x86-64_linux everywhere; the mapAttrs is just convenience
<gchristensen> out of all the talks, this one seems to be Tycho's favorite so far
<t184256> adisbladis: I thought xonsh does most of the parsing
<arianvp> is Tycho the small Nix mascot?
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<gchristensen> hah
<adisbladis> t184256: Hm, you're right
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<infinisil> In zsh: `setopt interactive_comments` to turn on #-comment support in a shell
<infinisil> But it's disabled by default
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<gchristensen> Tycho is the small child who won't stop squirming except during this talk
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<infinisil> And even if it's on, it only triggers if there's a space before the #
<arianvp> ah so it's the mascot
<adisbladis> All other shells I've tried (ksh/tcsh/fish/bash) behaves the same
<srhb> gchristensen: tycho <3 :)
<Henson> wooo Haskell!
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<LambdaDuck> arianvp: Yes, I was mostly thinking from the perspective of simplicity and user-friendlyness that Eelco was talking about. I don't have a suggestion for what the simpler syntax would be though.
<t184256> does anybody know what do I type after "nixos-install --flake"?
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<gchristensen> oh, yeah, eyJhb -- this is why I asked you to send me recordings of you pronouncing tycho brahe's name :)
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<jpo> > talking quite slowly?
<{^_^}> error: syntax error, unexpected ')', expecting ID or OR_KW or DOLLAR_CURLY or '"', at (string):326:1
<jpo> lol, no
<ebopp> this need to add everything to the index has bitten me more than once…
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<pickfire> Wow, `nix run`.
<FireFly> gchristensen: heh
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<terlar> t184256: The path to the flake, e.g. `nixos-rebuild switch --flake .`
<infinisil> flakes enforcing final: prev: is super weird
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<arianvp> infinisil: does it enforce the lambda parameter names? O.o
<niksnut> yes
<infinisil> arianvp: Yeah..
<arianvp> that's way too much magic. ugh
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<arianvp> not a fan =)
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<gchristensen> I wish it had been made an attributeset function
<arianvp> yeh. we have attrsets for named arguments already
<Raito_Bezarius> what's the rationale for the enforcement of the parameter names?
<arianvp> lets not add more magic to the language .-.
<arianvp> we already have so much magic
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<niksnut> to force standardization
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<t184256> terlar: I just was some nixos, anything. Is it github:NixOS/nixpkgs#<something??>
<Raito_Bezarius> niksnut: okay, makes sense
<arianvp> niksnut: how about {final, prev}:
<ehmry> its better than `self: super:`
<niksnut> arianvp: that would be fine with me, but I don't want to change the overlays interface
<t184256> *I just want some NixOS
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<gchristensen> yeah I wish that had been an attribute set function too :D
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<vcunat> it could allow both, but that would reduce the standardization
<srhb> but muh partial applications :)
<pickfire> Wow, the talk like a bullet, I didn't enable 1.5x but it speaks as fast.
<Raito_Bezarius> srhb++
<{^_^}> srhb's karma got increased to 129
<Raito_Bezarius> partial eval is cool
* etu has probably written `super: self:` more than once and been extra confused
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<arianvp> just need to add curry and uncurry to the language :P
<infinisil> There is even overrideScope which takes `super: self:` arguments in that order
<infinisil> Until it was noticed, at which point overrideScope was deprecated
<Raito_Bezarius> arianvp: then you could get { super, self } from self: super :p
<infinisil> And overrideScope' was introduced with `self: super:` order
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<gchristensen> infinisil: more things that should have been attribute set fuctions hehe
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<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: classical 25 mn too short talk to explain everything he wants to show
<pickfire> No wonder it is so fast.
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<pastry> well, thats what slowing down recordings are for? xD
<pickfire> Why they couldn't increase the talk length?
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<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: >25 mn was not an available option afaik to speakers
<Raito_Bezarius> but it could have been asked for
<nbathum> pickfire: I am not a good planner xD
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<pickfire> Haha
<pickfire> nbathum: Heh, at least everyone get 1.75x speed for free.
<pickfire> I just kept rewinding.
<Raito_Bezarius> to be fair, thanks nbathum, worldofpeace, puck and everyone that organized NixCon
<nbathum> yes we could have done it if requested and we had planned for it earlier
<Raito_Bezarius> that sounded hard
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<nbathum> :)
<serokell_jonn> Raito_Bezarius: any amount of time is too short to explain everything. The goal of conference talks is not to explain is to give a comprehensive overview and inspire experimentation.
<pickfire> But it is still good enough for me.
<pickfire> Luckily I can still keep up.
<arianvp> yeh this talk is a lot of food for thought and experimentation for htis weekend :)
<terlar> t184256: I am not sure if any nixos flake is published somewhere, it needs to target a flake that has `nixosConfigurations` exposed either with same hostname as your machine or you target a config with #name to the end of the URI
<jpo> is this prerecorded?
<Raito_Bezarius> serokell_jonn: true, but "a comprehensive overview" of flakes require that much maybe I think
<jpo> (and sped up)
<Raito_Bezarius> jpo: I think it's live (?)
<arianvp> nope. just a very packed talk =)
<kirelagin> jpo: No that's how Alexander actually talks :)
<Raito_Bezarius> ah no
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<pickfire> Wow, nix have container? Is nixos trying to take over systemd container?
<rasmusm> i think its a ggod talk, but next time i see it its going to be on x0.75 spped, but i prefore that to the talk ending just as he gets to the good parts
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<Raito_Bezarius> i think it's fancy wrapper pickfire
<arianvp> pickfire: it uses systemd-nspawn
<Raito_Bezarius> over systemd-nspawn
<pickfire> Oh
<pickfire> Thanks.
<kirelagin> not overtake but be friends with :)
<arianvp> hehe
<Raito_Bezarius> if you use mpv
<Raito_Bezarius> use [ to speed less the feed
<pickfire> I use mpv
<pickfire> But I didn't slow it down.
<pickfire> I just press left.
<Raito_Bezarius> :D
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<Raito_Bezarius> my brain cannot keep up with chat and video at 1x speed
<pickfire> True
<pachumicchu> Why does nixpkgs export legacyPackages instead of packages?
<pickfire> If video only then can.
<pickfire> But both, hardly.
<Raito_Bezarius> pachumicchu: questions are supposed to be in #nixcon-qa if it's for the speaker
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<t184256> terlar: oh, hm. thanks, I'll try to craft something
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<Raito_Bezarius> kirelagin: your question regarding lambda parameters has been answered by niksnut here earlier
<pachumicchu> Oh yeah sure, just curious if anyone here knows
<Raito_Bezarius> ("to force standardization")
<abathur> guess I can name a flake output "$(./zomg)"?
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<abathur> :}
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<nixer|75370> hi
<Raito_Bezarius> hi :)
<pickfire> \o
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<SomeoneSerge> pachumicchu: If I understood the speaker right, packages should consist of derivations, and legacyPackages may contain attrsets (with nested derivations)
<rasmusm> Raito_Bezarius: my brain would not be able to follow both at speed x0.5, so i am he for chat and a "preview" of what to rewatch latter
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<Raito_Bezarius> rasmusm: to be fair, I had an Internet cut
<Raito_Bezarius> so, I'm also kinda here for preview
<Raito_Bezarius> but even preview is too fast :D
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<nixer|56106> you mean the video speed is too fast?
<Raito_Bezarius> funny copyright/credit/attribution slide
<niksnut> viric: https://github.com/NixOS/nix/issues/3121 is about avoiding copying flakes to the store
<{^_^}> nix#3121 (by edolstra, 1 year ago, open): Copy local flakes to the store lazily
<Raito_Bezarius> nixer|56106: indeed
<pachumicchu> SomeoneSerge: Ohh that makes sense, thank you
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<pickfire> nixer|56106: Yes
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<nixer|lola> Good speach, thanks, Serokeller!
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<pickfire> Feels like 1.75x for me but I can hardly keep up.
<pickfire> Good talk.
<viric> niksnut: Thank you!
<nixer|56106> pickfire: yup, feels the same for me
<nixer|56106> I just joined
<pickfire> Same for me.
<nixer|56106> pickfire: I'm on the 2020.nixcon.org/live.html url
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<nixer|56106> it doesn't seem the speed is changable here
<pickfire> I am on mpv.
<puck> i think you can right-click the video
<pickfire> And youtube.
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<pickfire> Youtube to watch what I lost just now.
<pickfire> nixer|56106: Link https://dash.nixcon.net/dash/master.m3u8
<ryantm> 👏
<Henson> thank you!
<Ox4A6F> :clap:
<srhb> Great talk! Thaaaaanks! ^_^
<Henson> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<Henson> ?👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<evalexpr> :clap:
<MichaelRaskin> Thanks!
<zakame> 👏👏👏
<pn> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<zhenya> clap
<infinisil> 👋👋👋
<madjar> 👏
<ckauhaus> thanks
<nixer|70172> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋ðŸ‘
<scott> 👏
<dtz> 👋👋👋👋👋
<nixer|70172> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<arianvp> 0xfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
<claudiii> 👏 👏 👏 👏
<ebopp> *clap*
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<davidak[m]> 👏
<heisenbug> <CLAP>
<aanderse> 👏
<fgaz> 👏
<nixer|70172> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<terlar> wooohoo
<nixer|70172> Thanks a lot!
<refnil> :clap:
<nixer|83233> 11111111111111111111111111111111111
<pachumicchu> Thanks!
<nixer|75370> *slow claps*
<dtz> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<roberth> 👏👏👏
<dtz> 👏👏👏
<kirelagin> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<bhipple> :clap:
<yannham> clapclap
<claymager> 0xFFFFF
<nixer|83233> this was awesome talk
<viric> balsoft: thank you.
<MerlinGttlinger[> 👏
<nixer|83233> thanks!
<vcunat> 👏
<lnlsn> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<Taneb> Clapclapclapclap
<pachumicchu> 👏 👏
<nixer|92090> :clap:
<Raito_Bezarius> 👏
<risson> clap clap clap!
<pickfire> How you all type clap?
<nixer|51173> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<lnlsn> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<__Sander__> 1!1!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<pickfire> clap
<prusnak> 👏👏👏👏👏👏
<risson> balsoft++
<nixer|82433> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<{^_^}> balsoft's karma got increased to 9
<jul1u5> 👏👏👏11111
<nixer|lola> clap- clap-clap
<rasmusm> :clap:
<phirsch> :clap:
<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: depends on your irc client
<LambdaDuck> !!!!11111!!!!!!
<nixer|5809> :clap:
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<danieldk> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<page> :clap:
<talyz> clap!
<maralorn> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<Raito_Bezarius> and terminal
<t184256> clap
<niksnut> 👏👏👏
<Raito_Bezarius> kitty has native emoji support
<SomeoneSerge> thanks!
<nixer|86991> 👏👏👏👏👏
<evalexpr> balsoft++
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<{^_^}> balsoft's karma got increased to 0b1010
<dejanr> clap
<merijnb> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<pastry> spam spam spam spam spam spam :D \o/
<nixer|86991> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<nixifyer> awesome talk! (y) (y) (y) (y) (y) (y) (y) (y) (y) (y) :] :] :]
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<jtojnar> 👏👏👏👏👏👏
<brightone> 1
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<pickfire> Heh, now I can take my time to catch up what I missed.
<infinisil> > claps = let amount = 5 + randomUpTo 10; in lib.concatStrings (lib.genList (_: "👋") amount)
<{^_^}> claps defined
<nixer|90097> 👏🙌🤙👈👉👏👏
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<infinisil> > claps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
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<infinisil> > claps
<evalexpr> I heard correctly, a 2 hour break?
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋"
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<nixer|70172> thanks!
<pickfire> clap
<Raito_Bezarius> infinisil++
<{^_^}> infinisil's karma got increased to 365
<Raito_Bezarius> the hero we needed
<pickfire> 👋👋👋
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<Raito_Bezarius> > claps
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<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<nixer|92090> yep, two hour break
<pickfire> claps
<pastry> nbathum: thanks for giving eta
<srhb> See you soon!
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<brightone> see you all
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<abathur> > claps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
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* pickfire rewatching first video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sQa04olUA0
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<pickfire> The first one not very fast, can 1.5x.
<ghuntley> two hour break? Whos available for PR reviews :p~
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<Mic92> Did I miss ' An Intelligent System to Recommend Configurations'?
<Raito_Bezarius> Mic92: no
<Henson> nbathum, puck, worldofpeace: you're all doing a great job, things are going pretty smoothly. Thank you!
<Raito_Bezarius> it never happened Mic92
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<ryantm> three cheers for the organizers!
<Raito_Bezarius> ghuntley: you know that sunday there will be a hack day :p
<Raito_Bezarius> you can ask as many reviews as you wish for at this time :p
<nbathum> Mic92: technically I think we (orga) missed it. had it noted down as pre-recorded, but only realized shortly before the event we didn't have it
<Raito_Bezarius> ryantm: +100
<jpo> IMHO don't worry about running over time. The breaks inherently resync the 2nd half
<Raito_Bezarius> nbathum++
<{^_^}> nbathum's karma got increased to 1
<Raito_Bezarius> puck++
<{^_^}> puck's karma got increased to 9
<ghuntley> jpo: +++ agree
<Raito_Bezarius> worldofpeace++
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 199
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<Mic92> nbathum: ok. maybe we can still have it published later. It sounds interesting.
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<Ox4A6F> worldofpeace++
<{^_^}> worldofpeace was put on Santa's "nice" list
<pickfire> Today, I summitted my first pull request to nix today, hoped it could be reviewed.
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<aanderse> pickfire++
<{^_^}> pickfire's karma got increased to 1
<pickfire> \o/
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<risson> Instead of NixCon, we should call it KarmaDay
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<pastry> pickfire: if you join the normal or dev irc channel you can probably find someone eventually
<viric> niksnut: that leak about ".override"... you mentioned it as if "won't be fixed". Will it be fixed?
<pastry> responsiveness varies but is usually pretty good
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<pickfire> It was already assigned a reviewer.
<pastry> pickfire: theres also a discourse thread
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<pickfire> But I don't expect quick review, there are like 2k open pull requests.
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<rasmusm> risson: when you are a part of a grate communaty like nixos evryday are kamady ;)
<infinisil> Oh damn, apparently you need 200 karma to be on Santa's Nice list
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<risson> :DD
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<fadenb> For those other timezone challenges folks here
<phirsch> worldofpeace++
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 201
<nixer|75370> first time hearong of "nix", I thought this is just a synonyme for unix ;)
<niksnut> viric: it's kind of inherently unfixable :-(
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<viric> niksnut: that's what I was afraid of
<infinisil> nixer|75370: Hehe yeah that happens sometimes
<MichaelRaskin> Well, it can be reduced a ton for the most popular use case if we flip the sign…
<arianvp> functions are just not good abstractions for overridability
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<rasmusm> nixer|75370: you are not the only one, google still have a problem with that
<arianvp> by nature
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<MichaelRaskin> I.e. lib.reimportAndOverride package (x: {…})
<pickfire> Wow, nix doc inspired by cargo doc.
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<infinisil> MichaelRaskin: That reduces what?
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<infinisil> Ah the leaking
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<infinisil> Actually, this week I've been working on this: https://github.com/NixOS/nix/issues/4090
<{^_^}> nix#4090 (by Infinisil, 2 weeks ago, open): Lazy attribute names
<rasmusm> could i go back in time and change one thing about /nix/nixpkgs/nixos its the name
<MichaelRaskin> Well, then you just leak a single string — where to reimport
<ghuntley> !! nixcon is on the orange page front page
<edef> ayyy
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<infinisil> And lazy attribute names could fix the multiple calls
<ghuntley> Head to https://news.ycombinator.com and up doot it please.
<MichaelRaskin> infinisil++ intersting
<edef> nono
<{^_^}> infinisil's karma got increased to 366
<edef> or, well, go to the comments page before you upvote it
<ghuntley> "hover mouse and direct cat to sit on it"
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<viric> I never understood the nix internals, the aterm, the garbage collector, all of that.
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<LambdaDuck> Is there a coffee machine jitsi room?
<infinisil> viric: aterm?
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<ghuntley> ya where's the coffee/shitposting room?
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<nixer|7088> Where can we find the slides and the recordings?
<viric> maybe there is no aterm anymore. Some lib nix used fundamentally.
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<niksnut> infinisil: that would probably avoid the double call, but not the leak? (since .override still keeps all the arguments in memory)
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<puck> edef: .org plz :p
<edef> er
<edef> oops
<edef> https://jitsi.nixcon.org/water-cooler there, let's go now :p
<jpo> LambdaDuck: coffee would be fantastic! damn early for people an ocean west of europe
<edef> cc ghuntley
<infinisil> niksnut: Yeah. Though I wonder if the leak could be fixed by making sure `lib.makeOverridable` creates new thunks for the arguments
<ghuntley> cheers, water-cooler needs ability for ppls to chat.
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<LambdaDuck> People can chat there?
<infinisil> niksnut: (no idea how that could be done though)
<pickfire> Not typing but as in talking?
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<rasmusm> how do you chat in jitsi or is it mic only?
<viric> thunks. Never understood what is that either.
<MichaelRaskin> There is also a chat
<edef> rasmusm: there's a chat also, lower left
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<MichaelRaskin> Or press c
<ghuntley> water-cooler - I don't know if it's working for video?
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<rasmusm> edef: ah fund it thanks
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<ghuntley> everyone is muted in jitsi watercooler
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<FireFly> I think it's working?
<FireFly> far as I could tell
<infinisil> viric: You in water-cooler?
<MichaelRaskin> Let's keep a list if someone wants a topical ad-hoc breakout https://cryptpad.piratenpartei.de/code/#/2/code/edit/nNNcnWiDb1S0EYH3fTYo+FoM/
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<viric> infinisil: umh no. what is that? I'm here.
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<infinisil> I could explain thunks there :)
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<viric> there is better than here? hm
<niksnut> impromptu lecture on implementation of functional languages :-)
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<viric> ahhh ok
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<viric> I'm in
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<ghuntley> !! edef people on the orange website are going to https://2020.nixcon.org/live.html and there's no rewind functionality.
<aact> Is there a youtube channel for recordings?
<edef> ghuntley: oh no! cc puck
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<ghuntley> switch for youtube instead please
<puck> ghuntley: yeah, this was a wishlisted feature but i didn't get it done in time..
<aact> Thanks!
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<edef> i'll throw that in the HN comments
<ghuntley> emerg switch the stream embed to youtube please.
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<arianvp> nooo
<puck> we can add a link for it, i suspect
<infinisil> <CODE>
<arianvp> that would mean PROPRIETORY SOFTWARE
<arianvp> =)
<viric> seen it yes
<arianvp> we can add a link though :P
<ghuntley> like I get GNU and all but cmon
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<evanjs> nbathum: don't mess up lol
<arianvp> ghuntley: the organisers did a very rigid job trying to make nixcon a 100% free software experience iirc
<edef> yep
<ryantm> Started a voice-only room on Discord https://discord.com/invite/RbvHtGa
<pickfire> it's so lag in water cooler.
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<ghuntley> international conference on, everyone discovering nix for the first time, <bunch of gnu folx who don't care if people can see the content>
<edef> not even any proprietary JS
<ghuntley> i know but cmon, marketing.
<arianvp> but there is an alternative youtube stream for those who want that
<puck> ghuntley: i care, but also i messed up on this
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<puck> ghuntley: i was planning on adding it, but it requires a little more work than i could spend
<ghuntley> apologies to be so blunt, I understand.
<pickfire> arianvp: Where?
<nixer|93842> as quite new to nex, i love the 'to watch the stream from vlcon your computer, run: '
<puck> (need to have something that takes the DASH stream, and caches the segments into a CDN)
<nbathum> hrmm
<arianvp> I thought there was; maybe I misunderstood
<pastry> theres a lot of links getting dumped here
<ghuntley> we can emerg switch the html embed tho
<puck> ehh
<pastry> i think there needs to be a pad in the topic
<pastry> MichaelRaskin: ^^
<arianvp> there is already an html embed no?
<rnhmjoj> i'm 2hr in the future (had lunch earlier) and i lost part of the first talks. are there recordings yet?
<rnhmjoj> i started mpv early with a huge cache but it wasn't enough
<puck> no real reason to switch the embed to youtube
<edef> we'd have had a better shot at making that work if we had a bit more time, but we're not particularly eager to throw out all the work on the streaming infra
<evanjs> nixer|93842: yeah, `nix run` makes it _really_ easy to provide one liners, even when you don't have the required programs installed :D
<ghuntley> <iframe width="716" height="403" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7sQa04olUA0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<puck> ghuntley: nah
<FireFly> ghuntley: I'm not sure that's great when we'll have actual talks happening again soon
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<FireFly> I mean, live ones
<nbathum> sorry haven't been following. what is the purpose of that? to make the HN link clicker experience better?
<puck> while, yes, this would fix this one issue, this entire setup exists as-is because we didn't want to involve proprietary software as much as possible
<qyliss> also because we wanted to be able to say the conference was running entirely on NixOS!
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<qyliss> which is also good for marketing
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<ghuntley> not really
<edef> the video infra team was ~3 people, we pretty much all burnt ourselves out delivering this
<puck> yeah
<aanderse> qyliss++
<{^_^}> qyliss's karma got increased to 75
<aanderse> edef++
<{^_^}> edef's karma got increased to 11
<puck> most of the niceties you see on stream i hacked together last night
<edef> i'm lucky if i manage to get a nap while we're on break
<arianvp> there's a link in the HN thread no? =)
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<ghuntley> problem: people just want to watch the content, right now we are on the front page of HN, people just gonna skip on over/ignore nixcon.
<MichaelRaskin> nbathum: could you indeed add to the topic: Announce ad-hoc Jitsi breakouts: https://cryptpad.piratenpartei.de/code/#/2/code/edit/nNNcnWiDb1S0EYH3fTYo+FoM/
<risson[m]> Oh we're number 10 on the orange website
<FireFly> puck++
<{^_^}> puck's karma now has 2 digits!
<MichaelRaskin> As it is only-ops set topic
<evanjs> video team: 3 people. web team: 1 person. is anybody _not_ burnt out? :P
<arianvp> but I dont understand; the stram works; no?
<qyliss> they just can't rewind it
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<arianvp> ah
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edef changed the topic of #nixcon to: Nixcon 2020 is Live now! @ https://2020.nixcon.org/live.html To ask speakers questions join #nixcon-qa | ad-hoc breakout rooms https://cryptpad.piratenpartei.de/code/#/2/code/edit/nNNcnWiDb1S0EYH3fTYo+FoM/
<nixer|93842> Damn I got mixed up with timezones , missed some talks already ?? :cry
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<puck> nixer|93842: don't worry, we're recording all of them
<Henson> you organizers are doing an awesome job. Thank you so much for all of your efforts and dedication!
<FireFly> yeah, a few, but you could watch the recordings later
<edef> if you want to catch up, there's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sQa04olUA0
<ghuntley> The experience right now is "what's this nixcon" "click link on HN" "blank page countdown"
<rasmusm> edef: you are doing a good job, there are a stream on youtube, ther are a stream you can see in vlc
<nbathum> edef: thanks MichaelRaskin I was too slow
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<ghuntley> People won't go watch the videos later, this is the moment right now.
<evanjs> thanks for also putting this on YT guys
<MichaelRaskin> nbathum: edef: thanks!
<ghuntley> <3 to the team - I understand, this is coming from a place of can we compromise to make nix more successful?
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<risson[m]> Adding a link to YouTube and mentioning that rewind works there should be enough, no?
<evanjs> 100% advocate of "try to be free but also provide convenient methods that might not be 100% free", etc
<evanjs> free/open, w/e
<puck> evanjs: yeah, that's the plan we had
<qyliss> yeah that was the thinking behind yt in the first place
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<evanjs> risson[m]: yeah watching the replay now
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<ghuntley> A link explaining "also available on youtube, which supports rewinding" is good!
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<evanjs> puck: one of the reasons I like NixOS over e.g. Guix and etc :P
<puck> ghuntley: yes, that's what we'll be adding
<qyliss> if somebody wants a PR to open a link saying YT is an alternative that's fine by me
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<risson[m]> No i meant adding it on https://2020.nixcon.org/live
<evanjs> I recall there was some initial tension over the platforms we would use and blah
<rasmusm> edef: and you are normaly realy fast with the sngle topic videos on yt <3
<evanjs> ah alright
<ghuntley> <3 cheers and THANK YOU for your work with organising nixcon.
<puck> ;
<puck> oops, wrong screen
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<qyliss> puck: how about also telling people how to mpv from youtube?
<risson[m]> On it
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<puck> yeah
<qyliss> that way people can get the rewinding experience without proprietary software as well!
<puck> actually
<edef> C=
<puck> does youtube-dl work with rewindablre live youtube
<qyliss> I assume it does but I'll test
<puck> it does not.
<ghuntley> folks are on trains, bored out of their brains, on the orange website. they don't have youtube-dl
<nixer|93842> Thanks @puck , good to know , thanks to all the organizers and speakers for such an awesome event !!!
<ghuntley> (ie mobile phones)
<FireFly> ghuntley: I think your point's come across :p
<dtz> mpv works on the m3u8 stream (in the suggested vlc command) fwiw
<qyliss> ghuntley: did you miss the word "alsa"
<qyliss> *also
<qyliss> but yeah anyway as puck says that doesn't actually worok
<ghuntley> ya probs, apologies.
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<qyliss> in general please try to cool down a bit
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<nbathum> ghuntley: yep, we do hear you, trying to get some constructive problem solving going here
<rnhmjoj> yeah, mpv/youtube-dl doesn't seem to rewind live streams from youtube
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<qyliss> we understand your concerns and are trying to address them while balancing them with our other goals and principles
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<{^_^}> nixcon/2020.nixcon.org#52 (by rissson, 8 seconds ago, open): live: add link to youtube stream
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<rasmusm> can that not just see it on youtube?
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<worldofpeace> Henson: thank u henson
<risson> rasmusm: that's what the PR I linked is for
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<worldofpeace> yall really really turned it out in here for that 🤣
<puck> risson[m]: could you maybe put it underneath the "to watch the stream from VLC" bit?
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<risson> Sure!
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<puck> ty!
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<dtz> thanks organizers, all! <3
<ghuntley> My vote: "Also available on YouTube (which supports rewind) if you want to catch up"
<risson> huh for some reason it's not centered anymore
<arianvp> the nix-shell part?
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<risson> Nope, the past talks part
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<risson> puck: see ghuntley's comment above
<ghuntley> Thanks for opening the PR, on windows boxen atm so :/ feel kinda bad tbh not being the one to raise the PR.
<rasmusm> risson: i was nore thinking about all "oh no its nt working in x" :)
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<nixer|91345> what is nixcon?
<puck> risson: sounds reasonable
<ghuntley> Welcome nixer|91345! How did you discover nixcon?
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<rasmusm> but i read to much on gnu list yestady so i an just a litle aleric to that today :)
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<ghuntley> nixer|91345: see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sQa04olUA0 and rewind!
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<FireFly> nixer|91345: a conference about nix-- ah darn
<rasmusm> nixer|91345: is a a congress a but Nix/NixOS
<pickfire> I just noticed there are `nix profile` to replace `nix-env`.
<pickfire> But I don't understand the output of `nix profile info`..
<puck> risson: could you drop the target=_blank, and i think ghuntley's wording was pretty decent here?
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<risson> on it
* rasmusm realise that laying on the couch do not help me typing
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<ghuntley> hypothesis: nixer|91345 was from the orange website and was confused due to the rewind problem
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<qyliss> ghuntley: you have made your point
<risson> just centering the whole thing for my ocd
<pickfire> > nix profile info
<pickfire> 0 - - /nix/store/nvmqjsr9nh3vy7w2p6bqqmrjs17q5dfc-nix-3.0pre20200829_f156513
<pickfire> 2 - - /nix/store/h5aj5an71hcs951m1g2cm0k9bsprr9as-nixpkgs-fmt-0.9.0
<pickfire> 1 - - /nix/store/yqdyx24apqlllia7n0xzardfskr7vypg-python3.7-mach-nix-2.3.0
<{^_^}> undefined variable 'profile' at (string):326:5
<pickfire> > nix profile remove 2
<pickfire> error: --- Error ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- nix
<risson> good to go!
<{^_^}> undefined variable 'profile' at (string):326:5
<pickfire> experimental Nix feature 'ca-references' is disabled; use '--experimental-features ca-references' to override
<pickfire> Weird
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<pickfire> But the --help does show it can remove by index.
<jdoss> I was told there was punch and pie here.
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<rasmusm> jdoss: sorry i was hungry... next time i will save some
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<jdoss> Curses!
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<risson> puck: nbathum: good to go on the website PR
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<puck> risson: lgtm, nbathum?
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<ghuntley> amazing, thanks folks. Apologies for my lack of tact on the matter.
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<risson> don't worry we all try our best to make this as enjoyable as possible for everyone :D
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<nbathum> ghuntley++
<{^_^}> ghuntley's karma got increased to 1
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<nbathum> risson++
<{^_^}> risson's karma got increased to 5
<risson> never seen PRs merged so fast in the NixOS organization though!
<qyliss> not having to wait for CI helps :P
<nbathum> ahh yes well I am not an official part of this 'NixOS organization'
<ghuntley> risson++
<ghuntley> lol
<{^_^}> risson's karma got increased to 6
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<nbathum> merging too quickly may be detrimental towards me getting commit access :P
<evanjs> nbathum: "yet" :P
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<evanjs> also, to expand on merging and stuff -- IIUC, anybody in https://github.com/orgs/NixOS/teams/nixpkgs-committers/members has commit access. Users can be added, and I think we've been using e.g. https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/50105 as a forum for nomination?
<{^_^}> #50105 (by Infinisil, 1 year ago, open): New nixpkgs committers requests
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<ghuntley> #til about nomination for commit access and how it works with nixpkgs. Thanks!
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<dns42> hey everyone!
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<nbathum> dns42: hello!
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<pie_> viric: check the chat history in the rook
<pie_> *room
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<Raito_Bezarius> evanjs: what are conditions to join the nixpkgs-committers ?
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<evanjs> Raito_Bezarius: there's been quite a bit of discussion, and I'm not sure if there is anything concrete at the moment. You can see some thoughts on what the requirements might look like on https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/50105
<{^_^}> #50105 (by Infinisil, 1 year ago, open): New nixpkgs committers requests
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<Raito_Bezarius> Thanks evanjs !
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<evanjs> There's also this thread as mentioned at the bottom of that issue -- https://discourse.nixos.org/t/trust-model-for-nixpkgs/9450/7
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<Ox4A6F> Also dropped the break-out room from talks to our pad.
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<t184256> yay, first time having nixos with flakes and no channel
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<MichaelRaskin> 0x4A6F++
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<infinisil> ,ping
<{^_^}> pong
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<MichaelRaskin> I guess the nick fell through your regex
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<Ox4A6F> That only my countermeasure to not get onto the Santa's "nice" list.
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<infinisil> Hehe
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<infinisil> 0x4A6F++
<puck> Ox4A6F++
<{^_^}> Ox4A6F's karma got increased to 3, it's a crit!
<puck> :p
<puck> 0 vs O
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<infinisil> Oh lol!
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<infinisil> Ox4A6F: Damn you, being all sneaky!
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<Ox4A6F> Yeah, trying to not end up as an integer. ;)
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<MichaelRaskin> Does this make you an ox instead?
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<jpo> has anyone been able to join jitsi.nixos.org from "Jitsi Meet" mobile app? I'm getting "You have been disconnected." with no additional info :(
<Ox4A6F> MichaelRaskin: Better an ox than an integer.
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<aanderse> jpo: same here, works on a desktop/laptop but not mobile
<puck> hrmm.
<puck> does jitsi.nixcon.net work on mobile maybe? (note the .net, not .org)
<TheGlenn88> SEND DUDES
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<NixBridge> P​obretano[discord]: SEND FLAKES
<jpo> puck: .net appears to have the same behavior
<puck> jpo: awh, i'm not sure what's up then
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<qyliss> jpo: you're using nixcon.{org,net}, not nixos.{org,net} as in your original message, right?
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<pie_> viric: ok seems to me like you should really check layus' talk and get back to me :P
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<Ox4A6F> qyliss: I'm also not able to join with Jitsi Meet@Android using https://jitsi.nixcon.org as server-url.
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<qyliss> aww okay. was hoping it was just a typo.
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<Ox4A6F> qyliss: Connection to meet.jit.si works as server-url.
<jpo> qyliss: well, jitsi.nixcon.net and jitsi.nixcon.org. should i drop the ^jitsi. ?
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<qyliss> jpo: no, I just meant that you wrote "nixos" instead of "nixcon" in your first message and I thought that might be the problem
<edef> is there some SRV record we're missing?
<qyliss> but it sounds like it's not working for real
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<jpo> derp, yes, haha. was using nixcon. typo'd it IRC, not mobile
<puck> i'm not entirely sure how the jitsi mobile apps work
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<jpo> there is mention of some /.well-known perhaps expected?
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<qyliss> i'm looking for docs
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<jpo> i mean, i could also try to fix my microphone VM passthrough on my laptop (works on work laptop, as i use it every day, but personal laptop is different for some reason), but using mobile seemed easier
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<jpo> nvm, .well-known seems unrelated
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<jpo> (relevant if you're trying to use a rebranded jitsi app for a custom event)
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<qyliss> Don't see anything obvious in the Jitsi Meet issue tracker about this :(
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<risson> hell that scared me
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<nixer|51173> risson: same here
<rasmusm> shock i did not know i still have the video open
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<nixer|75836> Me too rasmusm :D
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<puck> nixcon's back up!
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<ghuntley> woo woo
<Raito_Bezarius> ø/
<josh_h> yeahhh
<evalexpr> hello :)
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<rasmusm> but i was about to open so was parfect
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* infinisil recently started working for Tweag :D
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<Raito_Bezarius> wow, infinisil :-)
<Raito_Bezarius> congrats
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<kloenk> i~.
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<risson> Does Tweak has any internship offers by any chance?
<ikwildrpepper> Zidanca sprint!
<risson> Tweag*
<ikwildrpepper> <3
<worldofpeace> lol, let's hope I don't become RM for 4 releases like domen
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<abathur> <3 worldofpeace
<risson> they would be 4 great releases though
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 204
<jul1u5> They have something called Tweag Open Source Fellows
<aanderse> worldofpeace: i'm sorry to admit, but i hope you would!
<gchristensen> I hope worldofpeace doesn't
<gchristensen> we gotta grow!
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<risson> jul1u5: will have a look at that
<risson> thanks
<infinisil> Neat picture!
<worldofpeace> Yeah gchristensen I hope I can be outdone by each successor
<aanderse> gchristensen: yeah but worldofpeace just does such a great job ^_^
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<worldofpeace> I know, it's almost tempting
<ghuntley> gchristensen: how's the hot water?
<j-k> risson: a google search for tweag internship came up with suggestions, not got a 2020 post yet but maybe one is coming
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<ghuntley> worst thing is folx who are forced to use nix, under delivery pressure.
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<ghuntley> not that nix is bad, it's the mindset of the folx. it's not open.
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<qyliss> yeah, that's not a good situation for anybody
<abathur> yeah, that's been my advice to anyone who seems to be stressed
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<pickfire> Same thing may happen to any language.
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<ryantm> Keep improving the website!
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<srhb> Avoid "success at all costs" :-)
<j-k> easier control of package versions
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<NinjaTrappeur> Improved documentation, improved CLI ux :)
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<Davorak> Be the obvious choice of easy exploration and experimentation.
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<cfinch> The website improvements have been great
<zimbatm> fix the installer :-)
<pickfire> Rust became most loved language probably because of this, less people who probably don't like it did not try it.
<risson> I'd say when you're arriving on a project on github, that it has basic information about getting it running with nix
<Dandellion> documentation is a big deal
<pie_> <Davorak> Be the obvious choice of easy exploration and experimentation.
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<zupo> predictable CLi API
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<AtnNn> Native Windows support
<farlion> Integrate home-manager in some way =)
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<Taneb> I think making sure common usecases are working. The other month Gnome broke for a few weeks on unstable, which was unfun. If we could have dedicated people looking after things like that it would help
<gchristensen> debuggability
<aminechikhaoui> website improvement and Nix UI such as niksnut's proposal
<nixer|10652> mac support is still very bad :(
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<nixer|54747> A completely new syntax for nix expressions. I've had nixos as a daily driver for 3y and still scratch my head over the most trivial things.
<pie_> !!!! <gchristensen> debuggability
<cfinch> Make more beginner user friendly
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<casept> +1 for windows support! A lot of projects would consider using Nix then.
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<__Sander__> would also be nice if can get better support on non-Linux systems. I know it's a volounteer effort, but still...
<rasmusm> ah a real twitch steam, all bout chat :/ (my pet pev)
<nbp> What I think: We should make it reachable by non-advanced Linux users.
<JanHeidbrink> easy integration with existing infrastructure
<phirsch> +1 debuggability
<__Sander__> for my project that I'll present tomorrow, multiple OS support is great
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<farlion> Love your install-nix github action.
<Reiser> nixer|54747, do you have any examples?
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<loafofpiecrust> More visible local support for option and package searching so I don't have to rely on the website for discovery.
<pickfire> I wonder if he can fullscreen?
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<SomeoneSerge> lmao, is that because of dynamic typing?
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<Dandellion> yeah, I still have no real idea of how to easilly discover module options
<__Sander__> JavaScript for Devops lol. I hope domenkozar is not referring to this: https://github.com/svanderburg/nijs
<rasmusm> but i would love nix on windows one build/deplay tool to rule them all
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<nixer|54747> Reiser most notably whenever I need to build somethinbg requiring specific native libs. Like ruby gems with native dependencies. Similar for python, nodejs, etc
<qyliss> Dandellion: I suggest man configuration.nix, and https://search.nixos.org/options :)
<Dandellion> I think they're in a man page and you can ctrl+f but its not a good a experience
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<pickfire> Dandellion: Not ctrl+f, /
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<pie_> theres a papercut thread on the discourse by the way
<Dandellion> yeah I use search.nixos.org
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<GuixUserCuriousF> The transition from new project with lot of passionate people to maintream project with more pragamtic users has many challenges. The most important thing is to overcome those challenge is lower the entry level.
<pie_> also i think increasing debuggability might hekp with helping people solve their own problems
<zie> pie_ +1 on increasing debuggability
<pickfire> I use `nix search nixpkgs xxx` so far, just knew it.
<viric> I think the documentation is good, around nix
<risson> what's wrong with that
<Raito_Bezarius> manix is really great
<rasmusm> are there a mailing list for nix/nixos or are it only on irc and discourse?
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<Dandellion> 99% of the time I want to find out something I end up reading sourcecode
<Raito_Bezarius> rasmusm: afaik, irc, discourse, and whatever the subproject uses
<nixer|54758> everyone checkout nix-bitcoin
<qyliss> rasmusm: Discourse replaced the mailing list
<Raito_Bezarius> https://github.com/mlvzk/manix has been awesome
<nbp> The problem is not the lack of documentation, is the lack of digestable documentation for new-=comers.
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<Dandellion> looking for good examples in random modules that might have something similar
<viric> nbp: I agree. Because there is more documentation than anyone would expect
<j-k> Raito_Bezarius: a google search for manix came up with something else ...
<Raito_Bezarius> j-k: sorry for that
<qyliss> I think we need to be more supportive to new contributors. I've known of several people turned off Nixpkgs by an abrasive first PR experience.
<rasmusm> Raito_Bezarius: qyliss: thanks, i am just a old fart there like mailing lists and dislike discourse
<Raito_Bezarius> :DDD
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<qyliss> rasmusm: me too :)
<Raito_Bezarius> rasmusm: discourse can be used as a mailing list
<Raito_Bezarius> though I like mailing list too
<bhipple> Yay markdown documentation!!!!!!
<puck> Raito_Bezarius: not very well, sadly
<risson> Raito_Bezarius++
<{^_^}> Raito_Bezarius's karma got increased to 3
<Raito_Bezarius> :/ puck
<infinisil> rfcs#72
<viric> I think we shouldn't interpret complaints on documentation as "write more documentation"
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/72 (by mboes, 13 weeks ago, open): [RFC 0072] Switch to CommonMark for documentation
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<ghuntley> Industry these days googles for snippets. Industry has grown up with being able to google for a snippet. Having a huge reference manual is incompatible with their mindset/expectations.
<risson> for sharing manix, I didn't know about it :D
<__Sander__> I think we need more like a course, that covers background concepts and practices. The Nix manual is somewhat an equivalent of a "car manual" -- it explains the features, but it does not teach you how to drive.
<pie_> viric ++
<Raito_Bezarius> risson: it's really cool, I'm using it a lot
<j-k> :P
<Raito_Bezarius> I'm packaging sr.ht in NixOS
<pie_> viric: we _do_ need more docs, but thats not the only solution
<puck> Raito_Bezarius: someone suggested "git send-email to discourse", but it mangles the patches too much to be able to extract them (unless you're an admin)
<ghuntley> I love our reference docs, but see it's not enough.
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<Raito_Bezarius> and lists.sr.ht would be interesting for mailing list replacement
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<Raito_Bezarius> puck: I see
<qyliss> lists.sr.ht is quite broken imo, unfortunately
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<Raito_Bezarius> qyliss: in which sense?
<Raito_Bezarius> I have experienced some bugs
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<Raito_Bezarius> but nothing too much insane
<Raito_Bezarius> on a ~ 800MB mailing list
<qyliss> one bug I had was that it got very upset if you replied to a patchset with v2 of the same patchset
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<qyliss> I reported this to the author, but got a very blunt response about this not being supported, despite being common on large MLs like kernel ones.
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<Dandellion> discovering `lib` functions in nixpkgs is also a little hard
<pie_> also theres all this talk about more docs, but we still dont have docstrings
<qyliss> yeah, you have to guess which file they're in, and then find the definition to find the documentation.
<risson> cachix, where I stored 207 GB until they garbage collected (:
<rasmusm> now we are talking about things there make it hard for new peple: https://search.nixos.org/packages should use allowUnfree=true or have it as an option
<Raito_Bezarius> qyliss: well, it's alpha quality
<Raito_Bezarius> but the bug you mentioned is going to be fixed iirc
<Raito_Bezarius> I have seen it on the bug tracker
<Raito_Bezarius> rasmusm: wow, I didn't know that it didn't have allowUnfree
<Raito_Bezarius> hm
<Raito_Bezarius> it has
<Raito_Bezarius> discord is there
<qyliss> having it as an option would make sense
<Raito_Bezarius> and it is unfree
<Raito_Bezarius> I mean allowUnfree = true is the default afaik
<SomeoneSerge> Oh yeah, it smhw was totaly unobvious that evaluating `pytorch` or `pytorchWithCuda` triggers a cudatoolkit build and why they won't fetch any cache. Now I totally see why, but I've spent time and cognitive resources to find out and verify
<rasmusm> Raito_Bezarius: i leaned it the hard way 1 weak of nix and have not used it after
<Raito_Bezarius> rasmusm: I'm pretty sure allowUnfree=true on the link you mentioned
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<Raito_Bezarius> do you have an unfree package which does not appear there?
<SomeoneSerge> Would nice to find a way to check whether something actualy is available in caches
<rasmusm> Raito_Bezarius: \0/ things gets fixed even when i dont bug repport them
<SomeoneSerge> And would nice to have an option prevent builds when there's no cache
<elorm> Honestly, what will it take to have a documentation standard like Archwiki?
<j-k> Raito_Bezarius: I dont think allowUnfree is true, I remember I had to enable it when I wanted something, was like a year ago though
<Raito_Bezarius> elorm: a lot of years
<pie_> elorm: probably a lot f work
<j-k> *is default true
<Raito_Bezarius> j-k: I mean on the package search website, right?
<elorm> It was done by volunteers
<qyliss> it definitely didn't used to be, but the search has been redone since then so maybe it changed.
<SomeoneSerge> Because when it starts building pytorch/tensorflow, or even better when it starts rebuilding entire closure including libc -- that's frightening
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<hhefesto> hello from Querétaro, México <3
<elorm> Can't we sponsor people to work on documentation?
<pie_> o/
<qyliss> SomeoneSerge: you can do that with -j0
<pie_> elorm: yes but who will pay for it? :D
<rasmusm> i started using nixos just after 19,09 got relased and there i had some unfree packages i could not find there
<elorm> Tweag has Open source fellowships
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<elorm> Others can lean in that direction
<bhipple> SomeoneSerge: in addition to -j0, there's also --prebuilt-only
<Raito_Bezarius> elorm: but that require making NixOS more attractive for industry use
<Raito_Bezarius> first
<SomeoneSerge> @qyliss @qhipple wow, thanks!
<LambdaDuck> When can't nix be installed on macos?
<ryantm> Someone on stream should totally be plugging that is running on NixOS!
<pie_> bhipple: oh cool
<Raito_Bezarius> LambdaDuck: when something something volume is locked, APFS, mac lockin
<nixer|59986> Can't Nix always be installed on macOS?
<danieldk> LambdaDuck: I think it was Macs without the T2 chip
<aanderse> LambdaDuck: i think the newer mac laptops can't write to / at all
<nixer|59986> Ah that makes sense
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<danieldk> LambdaDuck: because the nix store would be fully unencrypted
<Raito_Bezarius> what is going on btw with ARM devkit for mac?
<abathur> I've wondered if it would help for "installation" or like "onboarding" be a clear part of the marketing team's focus
<Raito_Bezarius> will nix end up on the new ARM Mac?
<elorm> nordvpn login
<noptys> join #nixcon-qa
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<LambdaDuck> Ah, right
<gchristensen> I'm pretty sure that was solved, Raito_Bezarius, nixer|59986, danieldk, aanderse ?
<nixer|59986> There's some really strange parallels between Fedora Silverblue and the new macOS immutability design choices
<Raito_Bezarius> gchristensen: I'm not a mac guy myself but I have heard of those stories and seen people giving up
<elorm> lol sorry pasted from my clipboard :facepalm:
<ikwildrpepper> worked fine a few days ago. although nixpkgs might break at next MacOS version
<aanderse> gchristensen: i haven't tried in some time, thanks for the tip!
<abathur> it's not that they can't install it, it's just that it can't (at the moment) make a sane default choice for pre-T2 macs using filevault on Catalina+
<rasmusm> but i started to get the fealing that i start to undestand Nix/nixpkgs/NixOS enough to use the docs, but github.com/NisOS/nixpkgs are still my number one documentation
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<niksnut> removing nix-channel is not controversial :-)
<Raito_Bezarius> nix-env -iA is pretty cool
<ikwildrpepper> I'll mis nix channels
<ikwildrpepper> miss
<Raito_Bezarius> and why removing multi-user support?
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<elorm> I'm sure several people will agree with removing nix-channels. Not controversial at all
<MichaelRaskin> Imperative package management should not removed, just spun out into its own tool
<adisbladis> niksnut: I think he said the controversial thing was removing imperative management?
<danieldk> gchristensen: my mac has T2, but I remember a post a while ago on Discourse, great to hear it's fixed
<__Sander__> ikwildrpepper: miss like a toothache :)
<ikwildrpepper> __Sander__: I'm nostalgic
<ikwildrpepper> I would miss multi-user installs
<casept> Removing multi-user would pretty much destroy the HPC usecase for Nix :(
<arianvp> hmm idk if I'd want to get rid of multi-user
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<rasmusm> multi-user are a killer feature
<Raito_Bezarius> casept: +1000
<srhb> casept: I was just about to say that :)
<j-k> I've probably missinterpreted things here but I dont want to sudo nix everything
<LambdaDuck> the "nix profile" command is imperative package management
<Dandellion> multi-user is a huge selling point
<arianvp> Instead we should make installing it easier ;)
<Raito_Bezarius> I'm using multi-user in shared computation context
<gchristensen> he did say it was controversial :)
<ikwildrpepper> hehe
<Raito_Bezarius> :D
<__Sander__> I would not miss the multi-user installations (they used to painful on non-NixOS systems), but it's definetely a useful feature -- we should make it easier/more accessible
<ikwildrpepper> gchristensen: is nicer to jsut gripe :-p
<arianvp> (there's been a PR to rewrite the Nix installer, which has been unmerged for like 4 years now)
<nixer|35839> Wow that looks great!
<gchristensen> hehe
<arianvp> which I think addresses some of these painpoints
<josh_h> ahaha ouch
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<nbathum> yeah error enhancement looks neat
<Raito_Bezarius> the nix errors on nix3 is incredible imho
<MichaelRaskin> Do we have a standard how many people need to be on each side for controversy?
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<pickfire> ah, why remove multi-user support?
<Raito_Bezarius> I was not used to so much colors from Nix
<arianvp> oh yeh; need to throw more money at this error message thing
<abathur> MichaelRaskin: open an RFC for that? :)
<ikwildrpepper> MichaelRaskin: one each?
<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: for simplifying stuff
<srhb> MichaelRaskin: I think it's like 10, or at least one cat on one side.
<MichaelRaskin> I think removing multi-user support might not clear the «pro» cutoff
<zimbatm> if nix.conf had [daemon] and [client] sections, it would be clearer what applies to what in the multi-user scenario
<arianvp> zimbatm: yesss
<MichaelRaskin> One it has, but
<rasmusm> but i started using unix on a old-school uni system, and multi-user was what we deamed about, but i dont know if people are still using that kind of system
<pickfire> Not simplying though, multi-user support is one of the requirement.
<pickfire> For me
<pickfire> I share computers at home quite often.
<Raito_Bezarius> It was a hot take from the author
<arianvp> I think it was meant to spark a discussion ;)
<casept> rasmusm: There absolutely are, for example in my hackerspace we have a NixOS workstation
<arianvp> mission accomplished
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<gchristensen> imo we should remove the single-user nix support
<Raito_Bezarius> Indeed arianvp
<viric> Channels are easy to understand, benefits and drawbacks. I think they are fine
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<josh_h> and spark it did mao
<pickfire> gchristensen: Heh, good.
<Raito_Bezarius> Cachix is a killer feature too
<MichaelRaskin> josh_h: I think discussion will not happen until Domen joins
<pickfire> We should also add multi-pointer support then.
<nixer|50193> you don't need multi-user support for use with multiple users though
<MichaelRaskin> so far just «come on!»
<qyliss> rasmusm: I share a huge dedicated server with a few other people so we can all do big builds, and use multi-user extensively there
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<pickfire> nixer|50193: Not everyone could use dvorak like me, so multi-user is still neded.
<Raito_Bezarius> nixer|50193: how do you do without multi user?
<viric> I'm surprized Domen didn't mention removing nix-env
<casept> IMO if multi-user support is removed we should only do it once every distro supports user namespaces
<Raito_Bezarius> viric: he mentioned it
<josh_h> I'm too green on nix to know the pain points of channels versus the benefits of what would replace it - assuming flakes? - but presumably it wouldn't be harder
<viric> ah ok
<pickfire> nixer|50193: Imagine I use chinese input by default, how do you want to type on my computer?
<viric> Raito_Bezarius: too much irc
<Raito_Bezarius> viric: he mentioned removing imperative package management
<viric> ahhh
<adisbladis> viric: It was implicit :)
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<ghuntley> channels are indeed weird, order of evaluation etc.
<lewo> gchristensen: the single mode user is quite useful in container environements
<viric> he says "imperative" as in "bad" I guess ;)
<Raito_Bezarius> casept: yeah, once user ns are supported everywhere, which is not going to before long
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<qyliss> Raito_Bezarius: only on Linux
<Raito_Bezarius> qyliss: indeed
<Raito_Bezarius> but is there going to be something else than linux?
<gchristensen> lewo: :)
<Raito_Bezarius> isn't windows adopting linux?
* Raito_Bezarius is out
<MichaelRaskin> Actually, I think there always will be _some_ useful sandboxing features that are root-only
<qyliss> Raito_Bezarius: we currently support macOS
<Raito_Bezarius> qyliss: ah right
<qyliss> and FreeBSD is a WIP
<josh_h> WSL is a thing yeah
<MichaelRaskin> Even on Linux
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<josh_h> it's not "native" though
<pickfire> I thought linux is not supported?
<casept> MichaelRaskin: Do you know of any?
<josh_h> it's more like virtualization
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<pickfire> Some stuff I did like locale is broken.
<arianvp> NixBSD would be hot
<Raito_Bezarius> arianvp: well nix is in $someBSD
<Raito_Bezarius> recently iirc
<qyliss> FreeBSD
<Raito_Bezarius> so NixFreeBSD
<danieldk> NetNixBSD would sound funny in Dutch
<arianvp> but I mean. FreeBSD is an OS
<josh_h> this nix.dev site looks sick
<arianvp> but I want NixOS to assemble BSD OS's
<Raito_Bezarius> AH
<adisbladis> NixOS kFreeBSD
<Raito_Bezarius> oh wow arianvp that would be fun
<qyliss> pickfire: Linux is the main platform Nix is used on
<arianvp> yes
<pickfire> Would be cool to have an edit button to edit the documentation in github page directly.
<nixer|86> any BSD .. without systemd!
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<Raito_Bezarius> nix-processmngt looks promising in regards to non systemd OS
<rasmusm> i would love nix using git tools but i am not going to do it and i do not expect anybody else being crasy enough to do it. But i think it would be a big thing for nix
<arianvp> Raito_Bezarius: yeh def gonna check out that talk
<pickfire> qyliss: Yes, but I use arch linux with home-manager for nix, but locale does not work. env LANG=zh_CN.UTF-8 ls -l does not show the correct locale.
<Raito_Bezarius> I really really want generalization of process mgt
<Raito_Bezarius> in NixOS
<arianvp> I've been responsible for NixOS adopting more systemd features hehe
<pickfire> glibc compatibility probably.
<arianvp> (woops)
<Raito_Bezarius> arianvp: don't worry :D I don't blame you :p
<adisbladis> arianvp: <3
<gchristensen> arianvp: thank you :)
<aanderse> arianvp++
<Raito_Bezarius> systemd security features are good™
<{^_^}> arianvp's karma got increased to 14
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<__Sander__> Raito_Bezarius: it's not an OS, but basically a "service layer" that you can use on any operating system where Nix can be used on :P
<josh_h> a friend migrated to nixos piecemeal from arch by moving one app at a time to nix until the ship of theseus was rebuilt
<josh_h> and I've been meaning to do that myself
<niksnut> I can't say that converting to markdown has immediately led to a higher number of doc contributions :p
<Raito_Bezarius> __Sander__: yeah, but it means that people might actually use NixOS without systemd
<niksnut> fact: people don't write docs
<arianvp> josh_h: exactly same story for me
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<josh_h> what was the old format?
<MichaelRaskin> casept: there is this PR by niksnut to allow booting a full NixOS container inside nix-build, I believe that some part of it will not work from under user without making sure a ton of stuff is setup under root
<arianvp> niksnut: so who do write docs? :P
<pickfire> arianvp: How about homectl?
<niksnut> docbook
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<ghuntley> okay what does a release manager of nixos do (apart from burnout)
<cfinch> Thankyouuuu !!!!!!!!!!!!
<Ox4A6F> > claps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<Henson> thank you!!!
<danieldk> Thanks!!!!!
<Henson> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<josh_h> yeahhhhh
<Henson> ?👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<Raito_Bezarius> > claps
<pickfire> claps
<srhb> \o/
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<nbathum> domenkozar[m]: thank you Domen! 101010
<risson> clap clap!
<pn> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
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<vcunat> 👋
<nixer|86> thank!
<LambdaDuck> Clap clap clap
<__Sander__> 1!1!1!1!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<nixer|86> s
<ryantm> 👏
<infinisil> > claps
<arianvp> clappp
<phirsch> 👏
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<nixer|86> 11111
<risson> domenkozar[m]++
<zakame> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<{^_^}> domenkozar[m]'s karma got increased to 31
<cfinch> clap!!
<ebopp> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<heisenbug> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<yannham> clapclap
<davidak[m]> 👏
<claymager> 👏👏👏👏
<maralorn> 👏👏👏👏👏👏
<arianvp> pickfire: let me answer after the claps :P
<nixer|10652> 👏👏👏👏👏👏
<Dandellion> 👏
<SomeoneSerge> clapppppppp
<Mic92> what was the other room?
<infinisil> > :v claps
<Ox4A6F> Breakout room added to our pad.
<Mic92> breakout room
<{^_^}> claps = let amount = 5 + randomUpTo 10; in lib.concatStrings (lib.genList (_: "👋") amount)
<domenkozar[m]> thanks everyone!
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<hhefesto> clapppp!!!!
<josh_h> homectl, til
<roberth> thank you domenkozar 👏👏👏
<phirsch> domenkozar[m]++
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<{^_^}> domenkozar[m]'s karma got increased to 32
<arianvp> > claps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<pickfire> arianvp: I saw a pull request but still left hanging IIRC.
<ghuntley> okay what does a release manager of nixos do? (apart from self-burnout) what's the load?
<j-k> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<nixer|57919> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<infinisil> > moreclaps = let amount = 10 + randomUpTo 30; in lib.concatStrings (lib.genList (_: "👋") amount)
<{^_^}> moreclaps defined
<arianvp> pickfire: it's blocked on an upstream issue. i'm a bit hesitant merging it until systemd fixes their PAM code
<infinisil> > moreclaps
<Raito_Bezarius> > moreclaps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<ikwildrpepper> I miss drinking beer with everyone, but enjoying nixcon so far :)
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
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<pickfire> arianvp: systemd PAM code have issue?
<j-k> > moreclaps
<gchristensen> ikwildrpepper: me too :(
<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: systemd is buggy
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<farlion> thank you Domen!
<arianvp> yes. see the linked issue
<DigitalKiwi> > moreclaps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<Raito_Bezarius> that's a matter of fact
<ghuntley> ''
<ghuntley> ''
<ghuntley> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<vandenoever> that visual might combine great with mind-enhancing chemicals
<arianvp> new features in systemd are often buggy
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<arianvp> (nothing wrong with that; but it's just something to be aware of)
<Raito_Bezarius> well, I don't know if timers were a new feature
<cfinch> >moreclaps
<Raito_Bezarius> but I encountered lovely bugs with timers :')
<cfinch> > moreclaps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
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<josh_h> yeah well I use airflow,,,
<ghuntley> hey folx nixcon still on HN website frontpage. pos #14
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/14 (by aszlig, 8 years ago, closed): Build Chromium from source
<Raito_Bezarius> :D
<Raito_Bezarius> wow this PR
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<pickfire> Raito_Bezarius: How buggy? How come I never seen any issue so far?
<risson> is it just me or is that voice is sooo relaxing
<Raito_Bezarius> risson: yes
<arianvp> these are the things you run into at 3 am pickfire
<arianvp> I can give you one link of a .timer bug I ran into
<Raito_Bezarius> arianvp++
<{^_^}> arianvp's karma got increased to 15
<pickfire> Heh
<pickfire> 3am I am still asleep
<Raito_Bezarius> i know you lived through the same things as me
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<pickfire> Luckily I don't get call so I don't wake up at 3am.
<arianvp> i would link you if github wasn't down
<arianvp> =)
<ghuntley> can I get a hell yeah at using tech out in a field/industry? it's nice not to see web dot com usage of tech
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<Raito_Bezarius> :D
<josh_h> nice, machine vision on nix - I've been thinking about building a hobbyist ML platform on nix so it's cool to know someone is kinda sorta already doing that
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<Raito_Bezarius> yeah his field looks super interesting
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<arianvp> ghuntley: Also see Lumiguide =)
<pickfire> arianvp: github isn't down, is it down?
<arianvp> they heavily use NixOS for their remote deployments
<ghuntley> like this is mentally engaging compared k88888888 noyaml.com
<arianvp> pickfire: it's given me 500 errors when searching nixpkgs issues
<arianvp> IsGithubNixOSScaleYet.com
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<arianvp> > no
<{^_^}> undefined variable 'no' at (string):327:1
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<adisbladis> > no = "yes"
<{^_^}> no defined
<evalexpr> > no
<arianvp> niksnut:. you said "fact; people do not write docs" before the claps start
<pickfire> Not for me.
<{^_^}> "yes"
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<{^_^}> #98299 (by Kloenk, 3 weeks ago, open): systemd: enable homed
<arianvp> which I agree with to some extent. so how do we insentivise non-humans to help us
<josh_h> lol executable yaml - a team at my job used this feature and I wasn't mad but I was surprised
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<ghuntley> > SELECT * FROM CMS_User WHERE UserName LIKE 'a%'; DROP table CMS_User --%'
<{^_^}> error: syntax error, unexpected $undefined, expecting ')', at (string):328:44
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<Raito_Bezarius> how do you unset a variable?
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<Raito_Bezarius> > unset no
<{^_^}> undefined variable 'unset' at (string):328:1
<ikwildrpepper> damn, I want this NixOS thing, it sounds amazing
<Raito_Bezarius> ikwildrpepper: it's for sale for only 0 $
<Raito_Bezarius> and your nights to read the docs
<gchristensen> ikwildrpepper: I don't believe it
<pie_> oops i missed 5 minutes
<pickfire> Sounds amazing
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<niksnut> arianvp: to be more precise: most people don't like to write docs
<pickfire> But dropping multi-user support isn't
<pickfire> T_T
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<ikwildrpepper> this is a very nice talk :)
<sphalerite> nah it's totally fake
<pickfire> niksnut: I write docs
<Raito_Bezarius> :D
<gchristensen> ikwildrpepper: it was such a fun project to work on
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<arianvp> niksnut: I think the trick here is to get developer advocates excited about nix
<ikwildrpepper> finally baseball is interesting
<Raito_Bezarius> ikwildrpepper: :'D
<arianvp> ghuntley: ^^^ =)
<risson> ikwildrpepper++
<{^_^}> ikwildrpepper's karma got increased to 2
<pickfire> Not a lot but I do help out rust to add docs for code examples.
<pie_> it delivers us from dependency hell
<pie_> lmao
<Raito_Bezarius> it's completely an expert system
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<Raito_Bezarius> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expert_system in this sense)
<sphalerite> and lead us not into mutation, but deliver us from dependency hell.
<pie_> XD
<gchristensen> lol
<pie_> btw is this speaker on irc
<Raito_Bezarius> pie_: yes
<Raito_Bezarius> it's Henson
<pickfire> But nix store might be heavier than node_modules, which is supposed to be heavier than black hole.
<pie_> *i mean besides nixcon
<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: actually, it's not that much heavier
<gchristensen> yes
<pickfire> Imagine nix store download nodes stuff.
<pie_> ok cool
<Raito_Bezarius> it actually does
<ghuntley> ikwildrpepper: steal my configs - https://github.com/ghuntley/ghuntley/tree/trunk/infra/desktops
<Raito_Bezarius> if you use node2nix
<Mic92> the speaker sounds like a professional speak.er
<Mic92> speaker
<arianvp> yes =)
<pie_> ah yeah its on the first silide, im going to rewind and try to catch up
<j-k> & yarn2nix
<Raito_Bezarius> and the nice thing about it is you can "share" some node modules if the version matches I believe
<farlion> "It's just a nix-shell away"
<Raito_Bezarius> Mic92: yeah, definitely
<ghuntley> can we get this speaker to do all the #nixos-marketing videos for the main nix website?
<jfhbrook> saw a thread about yarn2nix yesterday - apparently it's inefficient? but nodejs modules, what else is new I guess
<jfhbrook> ahahah
<arianvp> gchristensen: is this upstreamed somewhere? :D
<pickfire> Just wondering, how come nix command does not support -h?
<gchristensen> which, arianvp?
<Raito_Bezarius> well, it's hard to make broken things work at an acceptable level
<arianvp> I know Lumiguide also NIH'd something for this as well
<arianvp> Automatic rollbacks for nixops
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<adisbladis> arianvp: There is a PR to NixOps adding it
<FRidh> this is a good talk for getting Nix in the more conservative corporations
<arianvp> sweet
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<gchristensen> FRidh: yea
<bhipple> FRidh: agreed!
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<sphalerite> jfhbrook: ma27[m] did some great work on making yarn2nix more efficient which I'm reviewing just now :)
<jfhbrook> still struggling to get people to stop using centos tbh
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<jfhbrook> nice sphalerite !
<risson> « amazing »
<LambdaDuck> The automatic rollback on failure sounds really sweet
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<Raito_Bezarius> Henson++
<{^_^}> Henson's karma got increased to 0o3
<pickfire> LambdaDuck: I didn't know that.
<{^_^}> nixops#1245 (by grahamc, 31 weeks ago, open): Deploy Targets: Policy/Behavior-free Deployment Hooks (auto-rollbacks, drain events, etc.)
<Raito_Bezarius> LambdaDuck: yeah, once it lands
<Raito_Bezarius> it's going to be awesome
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<Raito_Bezarius> i mention it brievely in my talk
<arianvp> i also NIH'd automatic rollback using systemd-boot's boot-counting feature
<ma27[m]> sphalerite: still don't know if it's a such good idea though %)
<adisbladis> arianvp: We (me and gchristensen) also sketched out a more comprehensive 2-phase commit protocol that could rollback an entire network
<Raito_Bezarius> adisbladis: is it going to be public :p at some point?
<Raito_Bezarius> I'm definitely very interested about those subjects
<noptys> adisbladis: that's amazing
<adisbladis> Raito_Bezarius: https://github.com/NixOS/nixops/pull/1245
<{^_^}> nixops#1245 (by grahamc, 31 weeks ago, open): Deploy Targets: Policy/Behavior-free Deployment Hooks (auto-rollbacks, drain events, etc.)
<Raito_Bezarius> adisbladis: ah, I thought that was something else than just this
<adisbladis> We never produced the code for the latter I think
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<Raito_Bezarius> I have read this PR many times
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<Raito_Bezarius> It even appears in my dream
<ghuntley> interesting way to do deployments...
<pie_> adisbladis: #65477
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/65477 (by deliciouslytyped, 1 year ago, open): Request for fail-safe rollback feature
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<niksnut> pickfire: there was a PR to add -h, but the conclusion was that -h is actually not all that standard
<Raito_Bezarius> I'm curious about live directory thing
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<jfhbrook> wow this talk is sick
<Raito_Bezarius> what happens when someone does a commit somewhere
<Raito_Bezarius> does the live directory pick up the changes?
<ghuntley> #til timed reboots.
<pickfire> niksnut: Why is that?
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* nicoo waves at dns42
<nicoo> Hi :)
<pickfire> I find typing -h easier than --help.
<niksnut> pickfire: try "git -h" or any coreutils
<pickfire> Which I usually do, I always try -h first.
<Raito_Bezarius> I agree with niksnut
<Raito_Bezarius> -h seldom works
<pickfire> go is the worst, I need to delete everything from the command and add `help` in front of the subcommand.
<infinisil> Fyi, a "steep" learning curve doesn't make a lot of sense, that would imply you can learn a lot in a short amount of time
<bew> Raito_Bezarius: ask in #nixcon-qa
<danielrf[m]> I had been working on this in the past, looks related: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/84204
<{^_^}> #84204 (by danielfullmer, 27 weeks ago, open): [WIP] nixos/systemd-boot: boot counting and automatic fallback
<pickfire> --help is bad but not the worst, still worse.
<danielrf[m]> I ought to finish that PR
<ikwildrpepper> patchelf <3
<pickfire> niksnut: I mean -h as an alias to --help
<pickfire> Like most rust projects do.
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<Raito_Bezarius> bew: done
<jfhbrook> in most of my projects I don't even bother with short opts
<juliosueiras> (autopatchelf or buildFHSUserEnv are the best buddies when doing binary based packages)
<t184256> infinisil: it's not time, it's effort vs payout
<Raito_Bezarius> infinisil: brutal learning curve means that new employees non-NixOS aware will have to work to learn it
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<__Sander__> I wrote this a couple of years ago: https://sandervanderburg.blogspot.com/2015/10/deploying-prebuilt-binary-software-with.html, as an experience report and (hopefully) to capture some common practices for using binary only software with PatchELF
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<Raito_Bezarius> I feel like that not having /etc/nixos/configuration.nix in NixOps is kind of a feature
<Raito_Bezarius> but I'm not exactly sure
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<ikwildrpepper> nixos community <3
<hhefesto> Clappp clapp!
<Dandellion> I'm pretty stunned
<Raito_Bezarius> > moreclaps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<arianvp> > claps
<pn> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<danieldk> Thanks for the very nice presentation!!!
<phirsch> 👏
<dtz> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<hhefesto> many claps!
<Ox4A6F> > claps
<SomeoneSerge> > claps
<Raito_Bezarius> Thanks heisenbug !
<pickfire> clap
<jfhbrook> 🎉🥳🎉
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<Raito_Bezarius> thanks Henson !*
<claudiii> 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
<nbathum> Henson: nice! thank you
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<zakame> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<MichaelRaskin> Great talk!
<jtojnar> 👋👋👋👋👋
<LambdaDuck> > claps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<davidak[m]> 👏
<risson> Henson++
<infinisil> > claps
<{^_^}> Henson's karma got increased to 4
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<ma27[m]> pickfire: re `-h` in `nix`: the problem is that e.g. `nix path-info` already uses `-h` for sth else. For further context, see the discussion in https://github.com/NixOS/nix/pull/3760
<{^_^}> nix#3760 (by Ma27, 15 weeks ago, closed): nix/*: Add `-h`-shortcut for `--help` to display helptext
<risson> oh didn't see that
<nixer|86> 111111111111 thanks
<risson> > claps
<__Sander__> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!1!1!1!1!
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<qyliss> often where -h
<niksnut> 👏👏👏
<qyliss> whoops
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<qyliss> often where -h works it's just because it's not a valid option and the program prints a usage message on invalid options
<nixer|86> what was the name of the company?
<nixer|86> that they buy hw from?
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<ariutta> newsus?
<ariutta> I don't know how it's spelled
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<pickfire> ma27[m]: Ah, thanks for sharing that.
<pickfire> qyliss: Yes, that's often what I do.
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<pickfire> But I don't know why is it comparing only to GNU which do --help but not to the rest that does -h.
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<pickfire> Okay, except the -h is already used, making a breaking change on this may not feel so good.
<nixer|86> jtojnar, ok, thanks!
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<nixer|86> any idea if they can be corebooted?
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<jtojnar> maybe ask in #nixcon-qa 😉
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<ghuntley> loved this talk, thank-you.
<jfhbrook> yeah, 💯
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<arianvp> If you want SecureBoot and dm-verity. I'm working on support for it here =) github.com/arianvp/server-optimised-nixos/
<Raito_Bezarius> arianvp: nice!!
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<arianvp> (All highly undocumented. and WIP)
<dtz> clever++
<{^_^}> clever's karma got increased to 517
<Ox4A6F> <3 clever
<{^_^}> clever's karma got increased to 518
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<arianvp> Raito_Bezarius: the juicy things are in https://github.com/arianvp/server-optimised-nixos/blob/master/lib/make-{efi,verity,unified-kernel-image}.nix
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<dtz> (oh neat, does the bot recognize '<3 $name' ? haha)
<nicoo> arianvp: Oooh. Are contributions welcome?
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<Raito_Bezarius> awesome, arianvp
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<mschwaig> arianvp: I will take a look at that as well, thanks.
<Raito_Bezarius> it's an insta star
* nicoo asked that question O:3
<risson> > "<3 clever"
<{^_^}> "<3 clever"
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<risson> hmm
<arianvp> nicoo: for sure. it's just very experimental and actively in development atm
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* nicoo nods, will probably have a closer look once she gets her workstation back (had to RMA the motherboard for repairs/replacement)
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<Raito_Bezarius> I actually have a X230 that I'm corebooting
<Raito_Bezarius> I'm EXTREMELY interested into bringing measured boot to it
<Raito_Bezarius> it is already running NixOS
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<servilio`> installing coreboot as the BIOS
<pickfire> coreboot is like flashing the BIOS
<nbathum> wooo! thank you Henson
<Raito_Bezarius> I already "unlocked" the BIOS
<NinjaTrappeur> *clap*
<bew> Great talk!!
<MichaelRaskin> Thanks!
<pickfire> clap
<claudiii> 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
<Raito_Bezarius> Thanks Henson
<arianvp> > claps
<ariutta> thanks!
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<dtz> 👏👏👏
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<hhefesto> claps!!!
<j-k> > clapmore
<dtz> 👏👏👏👏👏👏
<risson> clap clap clap!
<dtz> 👏👏👏👏
<{^_^}> undefined variable 'clapmore' at (string):328:1
<ryantm> 👏
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<srhb> Thank you!
<risson> Henson++
<farlion> +++
<jfroche> claps
<{^_^}> Henson's karma got increased to 5
<noptys> *clap*
<infinisil> > moreclaps
<ikwildrpepper> clap clap clap
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<jtojnar> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<pickfire> I corebooted my x220 but I don't see any difference.
<nixer|86> 11111111111111111 great !!
<betawaffle> noise
<__Sander__> !!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111
<lnlsn> clap clap clap
<Ox4A6F> <3 Henson
<lnlsn> clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap
<{^_^}> Henson's karma got increased to 6
<dtz> extra claps for worldofpeace too <3
<SomeoneSerge> > claps
<bara> 👏👏👏
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<zakame> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<bew> Henson++
<ikwildrpepper> excellent talk
<{^_^}> Henson's karma got increased to 7
<NinjaTrappeur> Henson++
<{^_^}> Henson's karma got increased to 8
<LambdaDuck> > moreclaps
<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: differences as in?
<hhefesto> Henson++
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<{^_^}> Henson's karma got increased to 9
<bew> Good bot ^^
<jpo> spam spam spam spam spammmmmmm spam spam! :D
<pickfire> Raito_Bezarius: Speed
<risson> {^_^}++
<{^_^}> {^_^}'s karma got increased to 218, it's a crit!
<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: it's not a matter of speed
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<Raito_Bezarius> it depends also on your payload
<bew> Lol x)
<Raito_Bezarius> if you're using TianoCore
<hhefesto> {^_^}++
<{^_^}> {^_^}'s karma got increased to 219
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<pickfire> But feature parity wise, corebooted but nothing special, in the end I cannot use ACPI control for some stuff but I forgot what is it.
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<jpo> what does the {^_^} bot evaluate when you do "> ..."
<pickfire> No feature parity
<ghuntley> puck: edef; nbathum looks like you won some hearts - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24801995
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<risson> jpo: a nix expression
<jpo> ...of course xD
<pickfire> Raito_Bezarius: Last time tianocore wasn't stable when I did it IIRC.
<risson> > { a = 2; b = 3; }.a
<{^_^}> 2
<ghuntley> This note on below the video shows why I love Nix:
<ghuntley> nix-shell --packages vlc --run "vlc https://dash.nixcon.net/dash/master.m3u8"
<ghuntley> To watch the stream from VLC on your computer, run:
<arianvp> > { a = claps; b = claps; }
<bew> > <nixpkgs>
<{^_^}> { a = <CODE>; b = <CODE>; }
<{^_^}> /var/lib/nixbot/nixpkgs/master/repo
<Raito_Bezarius> ghuntley: you can replace it with a mpv expr :p
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<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: to be fair, coreboot is only if you plan to take control of your bios and etc
<nbathum> ghuntley: :)
<Raito_Bezarius> using stock bios, I cannot do what I want
<pickfire> Raito_Bezarius: But it seemed to be similar.
<clever> dtz: i'm guessing Henson's talk went by? i'm behind on the livestream
<pickfire> Raito_Bezarius: For example?
<Raito_Bezarius> clever: indeed
<NixBridge> P​obretano[discord]: > what are the Lisp docstrings like?
<NixBridge> P​obretano[discord]: @nbathum Like Python docstrings 🙂 but more integrated I would say
<dtz> yessir
<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: trying to neutralize Intel ME
<Raito_Bezarius> for example
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<pickfire> What happens if you do not neutralize it?
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<Raito_Bezarius> well, there is a ring -2 backdoor waiting to get exploited on your machine
<NixBridge> U​biq[discord]: breakout: https://jitsi.nixcon.org/remote-deployments
<pickfire> Oh
<pickfire> I didn't know that.
<clever> Raito_Bezarius: the pi firmware sort of functions like intel ME in a lot of ways as well
<ehmry> coreboot does not disable ME, it can be done
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<nicoo> <3 the Robotnix name :D
<pickfire> Raito_Bezarius: But they need physical access right?
<nixer|86> Raito_Bezarius, ME is harder to rip off on newer hw
<Raito_Bezarius> I didn't say ME can be disabled
<pie_> did worldofpeace forget to annuounce a breakout room or is our speaker running off? :p
<Raito_Bezarius> I said it's possible to *TRY* to *neutralize* ME
<jfhbrook> robotnix is a *great* name
<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: no
<ghuntley> U​biq[discord]: breakout: https://jitsi.nixcon.org/remote-deployments
<pie_> its just missing the dr
<MichaelRaskin> pie_: Henson said he is joining
<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: it is its own processor and has full access to bus and networking
<pickfire> But how come they want to put a backdoor there?
<Raito_Bezarius> can be used out of band
<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: it's a feature
<pickfire> Huh?
<ehmry> I disabled on my t420 but then I had problems with the ethernet
<pickfire> AMD have them?
<gchristensen> the amusing thing about his conversation is Intel ME is, like, uniquely specifically useful for hens-n's use case
<Raito_Bezarius> yes
<Raito_Bezarius> AMD PSP
<pie_> though i dont actually have any questions i just want to lurk :p
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<Raito_Bezarius> ehmry: well, it's kind of crucial indeed
<clever> Raito_Bezarius: same with the pi, its own processor, full access to ram, full control over peripherals, but conflicts can arise if 2 OS's fight over one peripheral
<Raito_Bezarius> nixer|86: agreed
<Raito_Bezarius> clever: agreed
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<Raito_Bezarius> it would be nice to converge towards corebootable hardware
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<pickfire> Raito_Bezarius: Oh, even in ryzen.
<clever> Raito_Bezarius: i have been working on open pi firmware a lot lately
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<ehmry> Raito_Bezarius: disabled is the wrong word, i think the process broke the ME but didn't really disable it
<pickfire> But I didn't know pi have them too.
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<Raito_Bezarius> clever: yeah, I remember, you told me about it months ago
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<Raito_Bezarius> ehmry: well, you can replace the firmware by some 0s and try to neutralize the active payload without killing the required init code
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<Raito_Bezarius> because otherwise, the machine will shutdown after 30 mn
<nixer|86> fun fact about ME is that your computer will shut down in 30 minutes if you rip off too much code from the chip
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<pickfire> Wow
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<pickfire> nixer|86: So it means the machine is a goner without the ME?
<Raito_Bezarius> some critical machines for military have a High Assurance mode which can pseudo-disable ME
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<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: yeah, ME is that important
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<pie_> is the robotnix guy generally on irc? :P
<nixer|86> that is why ME_cleaner leaves there initialization stubs
<pickfire> Is it because NSA force intel to have it?
<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: it's not that simple IMHO
<pickfire> Or US want to spy on the whole world?
<kirelagin> huh, building Android with Nix would be neat. I have a shell.nix for building lineagos and it works okaish, but haveing a "native" Nix build sounds great.
<Raito_Bezarius> the truth is always complicated
<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: for more coreboot usage, https://trmm.net/Heads
<viric> kirelagin: same here for lineageos
<Raito_Bezarius> I'd love to build React Native apps using Nix
<viric> kirelagin: he hasn't mention lineageos though
<Raito_Bezarius> I tried some stuff based on status-react
<Raito_Bezarius> which uses Nix
<nbathum> minor technical glitches!
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<viric> nbathum: here the stream works perfect so far
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<jfhbrook> I kiiinda wanna mess with ethereum? smart contracts seem cool
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<Raito_Bezarius> jfhbrook: personally I don't want :p
<Raito_Bezarius> I just want building apps with Nix
<Raito_Bezarius> à la __Sander__
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<jfhbrook> I feel that, I have Opinions on ethereum as an actually good idea on the whole
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<Henson> sorry, I forgot about the link to clever's kexec stuff. Here it is: https://github.com/cleverca22/nix-tests/tree/master/kexec
<Raito_Bezarius> Henson: don't worry
<Raito_Bezarius> many people mentioned it
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<Raito_Bezarius> I want to wake up some day
<Raito_Bezarius> and see https://r13y.com/ with 100%
<noptys> very cool that GrapheneOS is supported
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<DigitalKiwi> heh was just trying to find strcat/thestinger
<Raito_Bezarius> 🔥
<DigitalKiwi> ...i could message him on signal lol
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<Ericson2314> he does nix things or just android things?
<DigitalKiwi> strcat?
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<Ericson2314> yeah
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<Ericson2314> i would interact with him in early Rust days a bit but not since
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<bew> What is the presentation tool he's using?
<pickfire> Latex
<pickfire> Probably
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<sphalerite> yeah looks like a latex beamer pdf
<bew> Ooh sweat, thx
<DigitalKiwi> grapheneos is his
<pickfire> Oh
<MichaelRaskin> Navigation at the bottom gives away beamer 100%
<Ericson2314> ah ok grapheneOS
<Raito_Bezarius> it's the default beamer theme
<drakonis> haha nice eelco's talk is exactly what i want
<sphalerite> bew: beamer latex can be generated from markdown using pandoc, which is a lot more comfortable than writing latex directly
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<Ericson2314> there are no recorded talks yet, right?
<Ericson2314> (curious what Eelco said)
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<Raito_Bezarius> Ericson2314: what do you mean by recorded?
<Raito_Bezarius> available ?
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<Ericson2314> yeah
<bew> sphalerite: will look into that, thx!!
<Ericson2314> no published ones yet
<Raito_Bezarius> I think puck will be put them at a certain time
<MichaelRaskin> sphalerite: Depends on your background!
<pickfire> Ericson2314: The previous one is recorded right?
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<pickfire> Sounds like robot.
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<sphalerite> Ericson2314: I think you can look at the past of the stream on youtube, not sure htough
<MichaelRaskin> Give me XeLaTeX over Markdown any time
<andi-> Ericson2314: here is the collective recording of the "morning" http://gateway.ipfs.io/ipfs/QmVzTRqGKtiRbrFrfk8UfFXTDKfMys9mGDBgq8zHP3VFYY
<Ericson2314> oh true
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<pickfire> But beamer is already quite easy to write.
<sphalerite> MichaelRaskin: fair enough, please append "for some people" to my statement :)
<pickfire> Last time when I first use latex, I thought who would want to use latex for presentation.
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<pickfire> But then when I first write it, it isn't that hard in fact.
<pickfire> Way easier than I thought.
<Raito_Bezarius> My talk is written in Markdown+Pandoc using metropolis theme for beamer
<pickfire> Easier than nix at least.
<Raito_Bezarius> And I can also generate handouts also
<pickfire> Or rust
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<Raito_Bezarius> Now, I just need to reproducibly build my talks
<pickfire> Raito_Bezarius: Heh, use the robot voice?
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<Raito_Bezarius> <3 r13y.com
<pickfire> But using a male voice is probably boring.
<Raito_Bezarius> pickfire: :D
<pickfire> Female voice probably stands out since there are less female here.
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<nixer|35014> ....am I too late to see a live conference?
<Raito_Bezarius> nixer|35014: no
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<dtz> tbh these days if i squint hard enough almost everything looks like a nix expression :D :P
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<dtz> (but yes it does, don't mind me lol)
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<Raito_Bezarius> hahahaha
<pie_> this...has crossed my mind <Raito_Bezarius> Now, I just need to reproducibly build my talks
<Raito_Bezarius> that's so smart
<Raito_Bezarius> pie_: I'm seriously planning on doing it one day
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<dtz> it's the only way to fly
<Raito_Bezarius> If I end up doing a thesis, it's gonna be reproducible BIT TO BIT
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<pie_> Raito_Bezarius: link me when you do
<dtz> oh, do you mean the... talking part of it? hahaha
<Raito_Bezarius> dtz: I only meant the files part for now :p
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<jfhbrook> I put together some slides for a talk I didn't end up giving that's written as a literate org file which weaves into a beamer preso and tangles into a demo
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<Raito_Bezarius> I mean for research papers, it makes super sense to enforce reproducibility
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<Raito_Bezarius> so extending it to paper PDF, presentation, etc — is just free theorically
<pie_> wooooooo \o/
<pie_> nlnet
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<dtz> my thesis is not only reproducible, built with nix, i built it using my own nix-based research system (ALLVM), so all utilities used are allexe's (ALLVM executables) and the whole thing is strace'd to ensure nothing else sneaks in (since the build closure includes non-allexe bits but just wanna be sure they're not used) hahaha
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<dtz> sorry for distraction, but probably single only place/time i could say that and have it at all appreciated hahaha
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<Raito_Bezarius> dtz: hahaha, seriously?! send a link
<nh2[m]> this is so cool
<jfhbrook> oh neat
<sphalerite> dtz: nice.
<dtz> (source for it isn't published yet sorry)
<ikwildrpepper> need to get me an android phone
<nh2[m]> do we ask questions here?
<fzakaria> great talk.
<Raito_Bezarius> nh2[m]: no
<nbathum> awesome talk, thanks
<Raito_Bezarius> nh2[m]: #nixcon-qa
<Ox4A6F> > claps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<j-k> > claps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<ikwildrpepper> clap clap
<rasmusm> clap
<pn> > moreclaps
<niksnut> 👋👋👋
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<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
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<lnlsn> clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap
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<dtz> but i can share with folks if you give me github info
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<Raito_Bezarius> > moreclaps
<fzakaria> clap
<jfhbrook> allvm sounds very relevant to my interests dtz
<dtz> 👏👏👏👏👏
<noptys> *clap* crazy awesome
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<evalexpr> > clas
<j-k> > moreclaps
<jfhbrook> dtz: @jfhbrook on gh
<{^_^}> undefined variable 'clas' at (string):328:1
<jtojnar> ❤️👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<evalexpr> > claps
<lnlsn> clap clap clap
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<claudiii> 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
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<knedlsepp> 👏👏👏
<SomeoneSerge> Really great job
<nixer|90209> :clap: awesome talk!
<SomeoneSerge> > claps
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<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<jfhbrook> yeah that was sick 👏
<farlion> +++
<nicoo> > "clap " * 10
<{^_^}> value is a string while an integer was expected, at (string):328:1
<nicoo> :(
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<immae> I suddenly feel like replacing /e/ on my phone by robotnix!
<bew> Are the breakroom comms recorded? Or do I just miss them when I follow all talks?
<Raito_Bezarius> immae: :-)))
<MichaelRaskin> bew: latter
<Raito_Bezarius> bew: puck ^
<Raito_Bezarius> ah
<Raito_Bezarius> so it's not recorded
<bew> Argh
<FireFly> that was a really good talk!
<abathur> > clap
<{^_^}> undefined variable 'clap' at (string):328:1
<Raito_Bezarius> It'd good to ask for note taking for people who goes into breakout room
<abathur> oops
<abathur> > claps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<LambdaDuck> > moreclaps
<jfhbrook> yeah robotnix kinda makes me want to switch to android (on ios these days)
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<srhb> Thanks!
<DigitalKiwi> > moreclaps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<__Sander__> !!!!!!@!!@!!!!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111
<nixer|90209> :clap: ^ :clap:
<davidak[m]> 👏
<cfinch> > { a = 2; b = 3; }.a
<{^_^}> 2
<ikwildrpepper> clapperdeclap
<bara> 👏👏
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<claudiii> 👏 👏
<noptys> earlier the live yt video was allowing me to remind to the start, so while not recorded per se...
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<knedlsepp> 👏👏👏
<DigitalKiwi> more cowbell
<johanot> clapclapclap
<edef> breakout room @ https://jitsi.nixcon.org/robotnix
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<noptys> oh sorry, you meant breakout rooms.
<LambdaDuck> > { a = claps; b = 3; }.a
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<j-k> 👏
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<j-k> > 👏 = "clap"
<{^_^}> error: syntax error, unexpected $undefined, at (string):328:1
<Ox4A6F> nbathum: breakout rooms also up to date in the pad: https://cryptpad.piratenpartei.de/code/#/2/code/edit/nNNcnWiDb1S0EYH3fTYo+FoM/
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<evalexpr> > rec { a = claps; b = a; }.b
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
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<dtz> hahaha
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<ryantm> Wow 800 computers!
<nbathum> Ox4A6F: excellent! thank you
<bew> I'm so waiting for that talk :D
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<bew> I'm from Epitech, a school next to epita :)
<casept> Very relatable, I gave up on ansible because it very much feels like a leaky wrapper over a mutable system
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<DigitalKiwi> oh this is risson :D
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<jfhbrook> my current nixos server uses both ansible and nixos
<gchristensen> casept: that is literally what it is :)
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<jfhbrook> ansible is running nix-infect, kicking off the nix builds and doing stateful bs with credentials and The Database
<Raito_Bezarius> they're lucky
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<nixer|29834> coucou le bocal <3
<Raito_Bezarius> I'm trying to convince my school
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<Raito_Bezarius> but it's not working that well :')
<portemel6> le bocal <3
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<Raito_Bezarius> la french tech est là
<nixer|29834> mdr
<casept> Admittedly Ansible is not the worst, in my hackerspace we use a config mgmt system called bconfig2, which is basically undocumented.
<gchristensen> woof
<gchristensen> (1g network for netbooting 800 computers)
<bew> The game
<casept> And only 2 guys know how it works
<portemel6> prologin website : https://prologin.org
<nixer|29834> j'ai perdu
<kirelagin> I mean, there is also multicast...
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<bew> Hehe
<gchristensen> does pxe multicast?
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<kirelagin> Yes, there is definitely a way to boot multiple computers using unicast, I saw it
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<Raito_Bezarius> gchristensen: afaik yes
<Raito_Bezarius> it supports TFTP multicast
<Raito_Bezarius> (for iPXE)
<kirelagin> But getting rootfs from initramfs via bittorrent is badass
<jfhbrook> casept: I remember bconfig2, that shit is super old school if memory serves like pre chef
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<casept> Yeah, I'm trying to sell them on NixOS
<casept> Without much success
<nixer|29834> ca a l'air vachement mieux que les iMac a 42
<portemel6> I'm a student at EPITA, and yes it is badass : the machine room (~80 computers) can boot up in ~2 minutes
<portemel6> it is awesome to see
<dtz> @.@
<Raito_Bezarius> casept: feel you
<bew> nixer|29834: epitech promo 2019 here :D I'm using nixos on my old epitech laptop now!
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<bew> portemel6: awesome!
<nixer|29834> i went to 42 from 2013 to 2016 :) i wasnt nix-aware back then though!
<ryantm> laser pointer mouse
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<kirelagin> ryantm: I think it's the standard one in Google Slides
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<Raito_Bezarius> lol @ salt
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<davidak[m]> that sounds like a horrible hack you don't want to maintain
<jfhbrook> a few years ago I woulda gone with salt I think
<portemel6> davidak[m] absolutely, but it works pretty well
<bew> toto42sh: :D
<jfhbrook> it seems not super well maintained today though
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<davidak[m]> crazy
<gchristensen> just fwiw let's try to avoid being rude about other tools, we don't want to drive away current users of those tools -- we can attract them with honey
<jfhbrook> and yeah that rolling release stuff causes me a lot of grief on my current arch machine
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<gchristensen> (and every tool has problems -- even NixOS -- and in a sense we're all in this together)
<gchristensen> (not sure anything specific was said which was rude about other tools, just saying...)
<nbathum> ditto on the honey
<jfhbrook> yeah that's fair, I had/have a lot of interest in salt's architecture versus ansible, I think that pattern scales better than ansible's, and there are a lot of things I like about arch
<DigitalKiwi> but you catch more flys with vinegar
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<jfhbrook> the pkgbuild format is pretty good
<toto42sh> lol
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<gchristensen> torrents? coooooool
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<toto42sh> aw the CRI gitlab requires creds :(
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<Raito_Bezarius> diffeoscopeeeee
<Raito_Bezarius> r13y.epita.fr when?
<toto42sh> lol
<toto42sh> damn that would have been nice to have while studying
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<jfhbrook> this reminds me of when I was a college student in like 2007 and my "programming crash course for engineers" prof threw her hands on the air at getting fortran working on the windows machines and had us ssh into an ancient compaq tru64 UNIX machine, an old/repurposed mail server
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<bew> Sharing nix store, that's dope
<servilio> NFS works well for that, we use it at SHARCNET
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<servilio> need to have the same remote builder for all machines
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<knedlsepp> 👏👏
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<nixer|50259> congratz on this very interesting presentation
<jonringer> servilio: and allow substitutes
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<jfhbrook> that's dope wrt shared store
<Ox4A6F> >claps
<jonringer> *claps*
<farlion> +++
<pn> j'ai perdu
<servilio> *claps*
<davidak[m]> 👏
<jpo> pn: lol
<claudiii> 👏 👏
<Raito_Bezarius> congratz
<puck> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<Raito_Bezarius> > moreclaps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<jfhbrook> when in college I *also* worked with machines with access to a proper tape silo, you could read and write tar files and it would put the tape in Tape Archive
<pn> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
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<bew> > moreclaps + moreclaps
<bara> 👏👏👏
<noptys> *claps*
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<niksnut> 👏👏👏
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<jpo> > "clap"
<lnlsn> clap clap clap clap
<{^_^}> "clap"
<jfhbrook> :party🎉:party
<jfhbrook> ahaha oops
<zakame> 👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
<nixer|50259> clap clap
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<portemel6> congrats :))
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<bara> Students getting to know NixOS during their courses will get a lot of publicity 👍
<DigitalKiwi> jfhbrook: hah yeah our intro to computer science for engineers was fortran (circa 2009?) (well mine was, because i didn't want to do matlab) but we had a beefy SUSE machine
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<jfhbrook> yeah DigitalKiwi they switched to matlab like right after I did it haha
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<DigitalKiwi> we got to pick
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<nbathum> thanks!
<toto42sh> thanks bisous :)
<nixer|86> 111111111111111111111 thanks!
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<claudiii> 👏 👏 👏 👏
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<nixer|91251> > claps
<rtjure> *clap*
<davidak[m]> 👏👏👏
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<bara> 👏👏!!!111
<srhb> Woo!
<ryantm> 👏
<dtz> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
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<srhb> Impressive setup :)
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<knedlsepp> 👏👏👏👏👏👏
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<infinisil> *clap* *clap*
<evalexpr> > claps
<DigitalKiwi> jfhbrook: was yours also shared by unsuspecting meteorolgists
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<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<bew> > moreclaps + moreclaps + moreclaps + ":D"
<nixer|40123> Thanks a lot Marc!
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋:D"
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<t184256> clap
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<ariutta> That was inspirational :-)
<jfhbrook> DigitalKiwi: haha nah, my uni had a supercomputing center with a bunch of sun workstations and some proper ibm/cray HPC stuff and the climate researchers used those
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<jfhbrook> DigitalKiwi: my advisor actually was doing a lot of climate stuff, he's the maintainer of a volcano ash dispersal modeling stack called puff
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<j-k> yes you're live
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<DigitalKiwi> I HAVE A DELAY
<ryantm> I can hear you
<rtjure> heyhey! all good!
<__Sander__> we can hear you
<jonringer> you're good
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<toto42sh> respect for presenting using OBS
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<DigitalKiwi> i saw j-k say yes you're live before he asked :(
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<jpo> ack, start :)
<jonringer> you're live :)
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<risson> <toto42sh> aw the CRI gitlab requires creds :( <-- afaik it doesn't
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<risson> <Raito_Bezarius> r13y.epita.fr when? <-- soon(tm)
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<DigitalKiwi> did we just experience a GC pause
<risson> nixer|40123: <3
<toto42sh> risson it's asking me for LDAP creds or signing via CRI intranet unfortunately
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<risson> If you go straight to https://gitlab.cri.epita.fr/cri/infrastructure/nixpie/ it won't :D
<toto42sh> oh, nice one, thakns
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<Raito_Bezarius> risson: <3
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<noptys> risson: thanks!
<infinisil> > lovelyclaps = runRandom (randomUpTo' 30 (count: randomMultiple' (count + 10) (randomDouble' (d: if d < 0.1 then "❤️" else "👏")) pureState))
<{^_^}> lovelyclaps defined
<infinisil> > lovelyclaps
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<{^_^}> value is a function while an integer was expected, at /var/lib/nixbot/lib/fnv1a.nix:28:13
<infinisil> Damnit
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<risson> noptys++
<{^_^}> noptys's karma got increased to 1
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<srhb> "interesting" :)
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<infinisil> > lovelyclaps = runRandom (randomUpTo' 30 (count: randomMultiple' (count + 10) randomDouble' (ds: pureState (lib.concatMapStrings (d: if d < 0.2 then heart else clap) ds))))
<{^_^}> lovelyclaps defined
<infinisil> For later :)
<gchristensen> I guess you can't really rainbow claps
<worldofpeace> fat jar and uber jar is really funny to me for some reason
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<toto42sh> gotta fit in all the biscuits
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<jfhbrook> I actually love phat jars
<vandenoever> java development is jarring
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<jonringer> vandenoever++
<{^_^}> vandenoever's karma got increased to 1
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<toto42sh> SNAPSHOT seems to be one of the things blocking me from packaging our only gradle app with nix :(
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<pie_> can we get a link to the breakout now so i can lurk while i catch up and notice when the breakout starts?
<nbathum> my favorite java in nix problem story: https://github.com/nix-community/mavenix/issues/41
<{^_^}> nix-community/mavenix#41 (by evanjs, 23 weeks ago, open): mvnix-update creates multiple erroneous entries after hitting 404 pages
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<noptys> {^_^}++
<{^_^}> {^_^}'s karma got increased to 220
<jonringer> have you tried doing a `maven-generated.nix` where you can create a list/attr set of individual packages
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<srhb> nbathum: Yeah.. We've had good luck with mavenix so far, but... :)
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<nbathum> pie_: lemme see
<ryantm> 257 jars....
<nbathum> jonringer: not yet
<pie_> ty \o/
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<noptys> what's the limit on breakout rooms # of participants? (jitsi cap?)
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<nbathum> not 100% sure
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<infinisil> gchristensen: > rainbowclaps
<toto42sh> *claps*
<ariutta> Thanks!
<ryantm> 👏
<infinisil> > rainbowclaps
<{^_^}> "👏👏👏🏿👏🏼👏👏🏼👏🏾👏👏🏾👏🏽👏🏿👏🏾👏🏼👏🏽👏🏻👏👏🏻👏👏🏻👏🏼👏🏻👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏻👏🏾👏🏻👏🏻👏🏼👏👏🏼👏🏾👏🏽"
<davidak[m]> 👏👏👏
<claudiii> 👏 👏 👏 👏
<__Sander__> 1!1!1!1!1!1!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Ox4A6F> > lovelyclaps
<{^_^}> "👋👋❤️👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋❤️👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<aanderse> 👏
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<nbathum> woo!
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<servilio> *claps*
<jonringer> lovelyclaps
<nh2[m]> 👏
<risson> Raito_Bezarius++
<{^_^}> Raito_Bezarius's karma got increased to 4
<jfhbrook> > lovelyclaps
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<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋❤️👋👋👋👋❤️👋👋"
<jtojnar> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<bew> > rainbowclaps + "niice"
<{^_^}> "👏🏻👏🏼👏🏿👏🏻👏👏🏼👏🏻👏🏽👏👏👏🏾👏🏾👏🏿niice"
<jfhbrook> that's really neat
<phirsch> 👏
<talyz> > claps
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<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<refnil> (y) (y) (y)
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<DigitalKiwi> > moreclaps + moreclaps + moreclaps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
<dtz> hahaha
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<Ox4A6F> > rainbowclaps + " <3"
<{^_^}> "👏🏻👏🏼👏👏👏🏽👏👏🏻👏🏼👏👏👏🏽👏🏾👏🏿👏🏼👏🏼👏👏🏿👏 <3"
<toto42sh> thanks :)
<nixer|90209> :clap: :clap:
<pie_> you guys think its ok for me to put a request for someone to work on something on the hackday? 'xD
<bew> This is cool
<infinisil> Well done!
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<nixer|90209> :clap: :clap:
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<bara> 👏👏👏👏👏
<ryantm> :clap:
<bobvanderlinden> nice, talk. also ran into maven difficulties with Nix
<srhb> > lovelyclaps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋❤️👋👋👋👋👋👋"
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<infinisil> pie_: Sure, ideas never hurt anybody
<ariutta> thanks all!
<cfinch> > morerainbowclaps
<ryantm> Thank you to all the organizers!!!!!!!
<{^_^}> undefined variable 'morerainbowclaps' at (string):343:1
<terlar> Great talk :)
<Davorak> Thanks everyone!
<cfinch> claps
<srhb> Thanks to all the speakers and the people arranging this, i think it went very well :)
<zakame> > lovelyclaps
<{^_^}> "❤️❤️👋👋👋👋👋👋👋❤️👋❤️👋👋"
<cfinch> > claps
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<__Sander__> wooohooo!!!!
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋"
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<jfhbrook> lovelyclaps
<dtz> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
<nixer|90209> thanks this was great!
<cfinch> Thankyou for this day !!
<jfhbrook> > lovelyclaps
<{^_^}> "👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋❤️❤️👋👋👋👋❤️👋❤️❤️👋👋👋👋👋❤️👋👋👋👋❤️"
<risson> Raito_Bezarius: gchristensen: the problem with multicast is that all machines would have to be listening at the same time to get the whole image. And if any packet drops, it'll fail somewhere. The advantage with bittorrent is that it's very resilient and images can torrent even after they are booted up.
<claudiii> thank you everyone 💚 👏 👏
<jfhbrook> > rainbowclaps
<{^_^}> "👏🏼👏👏🏾👏🏿👏🏽👏👏🏿👏🏾👏🏽👏🏻👏👏🏽👏🏾👏🏻👏🏻👏👏👏🏽👏🏽👏🏼👏👏🏿👏🏽👏👏👏🏼👏🏿"
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<cfinch> > rainbowclaps
<{^_^}> "👏🏾👏🏼👏🏾👏👏🏿👏🏼👏🏿👏👏🏿👏🏽👏🏾👏🏾👏👏🏽👏🏾👏🏾👏🏿👏🏾👏🏻👏🏾👏🏿👏🏿👏🏾👏🏼👏🏽👏👏🏽👏🏻👏🏽👏🏻👏👏🏼👏👏"
<infinisil> Thanks everybody, see y'all!
<risson> Thank you organizers >3
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<niksnut> fzakaria: thanks for your talk! saves me from having to do some research (for a potential client that uses java) :-)
<davidak[m]> see you tomorrow ✨
<jtojnar> worldofpeace++ puck++ edef++
<{^_^}> edef's karma got increased to 12
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 205
<{^_^}> puck's karma got increased to 11
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<jul1u5> Thank you! 👏👏👏
<tobeportable> ❄️ 💜 ❄️ 💜 ❄️ 💜 ❄️ 💜 ❄️ 💜 ❄️
<evalexpr> bye!
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<puck> qyliss++ also!
<{^_^}> qyliss's karma got increased to 76
<gchristensen> risson: yeah, the torrent support is cool!
<phirsch> Thanks everyone!
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<risson> worldofpeace++ puck++ edef++ nbathum++
<bew> worldofpeace++
<ryantm> The stream was great, thank you so much! worldofpeace++ puck++ edef++ nbathum++
<{^_^}> edef's karma got increased to 13
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 206
<{^_^}> puck's karma got increased to 12
<{^_^}> nbathum was put on Santa's "nice" list
<{^_^}> edef's karma got increased to 14
<{^_^}> puck's karma got increased to like 13, I think
<{^_^}> nbathum's karma got increased to 4, it's a crit!
<jtojnar> qyliss++
<srhb> Raito_Bezarius: I believe we got mavenix to self-build an uberjar via some "common" plugin recently.
<{^_^}> qyliss's karma got increased to 77
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 208
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 207
<niksnut> too bad we'll never have something like poetry2nix for maven, given the lack of a lockfile
<cfinch> worldofpeace++
<evalexpr> thanks for running today :-) see you all tomorrow
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 209
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<qyliss> haha, the karma bot can't keep up
<evalexpr> worldofpeace++
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 210
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<servilio> worldofpeace++
<jul1u5> worldofpeace++
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 211
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<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 212
<jtojnar> nbathum++
<{^_^}> nbathum's karma got increased to 5
<bew> Bot is catching up ^^
<qyliss> sphalerite: lmao
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<tobeportable> worldofpeace++
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 213
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<infinisil> worldofpeace++
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 214
<gchristensen> risson: maybe you'd lke github.com/grahamc/netboot.nix/
<jpo> all the orga & presenters: thanks!!
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<__Sander__> this was an awesome conference day
<cfinch> gchristensen++
<{^_^}> gchristensen's karma got increased to like 347, I think
<qyliss> puck++ puck++ puck++
<{^_^}> puck's karma got increased to 14
<qyliss> aww
<bew> nixcon++
<niksnut> thanks everybody, really great talks today!
<__Sander__> thanks to the organizers, speakers, and of course the audience
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<rasmusm> i must say that this runned so smooth, and i like the video conference format
<cfinch> puck++
<{^_^}> puck's karma got increased to 15
<Ox4A6F> worldofpeace++ puck++ edef++ nbathum++ qyliss++
<roberth> Thanks to everyone who's making this conference possible ❤️ ❤️ ❤️
<{^_^}> edef's karma got increased to 15
<{^_^}> qyliss's karma got increased to 78
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 215
<{^_^}> puck's karma got increased to 16
<{^_^}> nbathum's karma got increased to 6, that's Numberwang!
<cfinch> edef++
<{^_^}> edef's karma got increased to 16
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<qyliss> worldofpeace++
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 216
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<qyliss> nbathum++ edef++
<{^_^}> edef's karma got increased to 17
<{^_^}> nbathum's karma got increased to 7
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<gchristensen> it is a good thing {^_^} is "known" by Freenode, to help get around some anti-spam rules they have :D
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<sphalerite> gchristensen: aaaaah :D
<edef> thank you all for attending!
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<edef> hope to see you back tomorrow ^_^
<risson> gchristensen: I actually stumbled on that yesterday and planned to give it a more thorough look, thanks!
<risson> gchristensen++
<{^_^}> gchristensen's karma got increased to 348
<gchristensen> thank you, edef, qyliss, puck, worldofpeace, speakers, crew, so good. thank you
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<bew> When will today's talk be uploaded as single videos on YT ?
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<edef> we're still working on that bit, bew
<puck> yeah
<noptys> thanks to everyone today. all great even at -10 UTC :)
<qyliss> probably not for a little while
<jfhbrook> clamoring! lol
<noptys> gchristensen++
<{^_^}> gchristensen's karma got increased to -2147483648
<puck> i think we can tell youtube to split up a past livestream
<betawaffle> uh oh, overflow
<dtz> lmfao gchristensen's karma
<noptys> LOL
<dtz> -fsanitize=karma-overflow
<nbathum> edef++ qyliss++ puck++ worldofpeace++
<{^_^}> edef's karma got increased to 18
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 217
<{^_^}> qyliss's karma got increased to 79
<{^_^}> puck's karma got increased to 17
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<worldofpeace> gchristensen: yeah, thanks. I will probably now pass out
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<hhefesto> is it over?
<bew> For today yes
<hhefesto> ok
<drakonis> it got recorded by the way
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<puck> yeah, i saw
<drakonis> for the folks that didnt catch the stream
<Ox4A6F> worldofpeace: Thank for your wonderful voice introducing nixcon. Also thanks for all the speakers and crew.
<DigitalKiwi> betawaffle: nah he's been bad so we took all of his karma and made it negative
<jfhbrook> hell yeah it's on youtube
<worldofpeace> all of your comments really make me feel really really happy. thanks for acking all this hard work. I will tell u that we all worked SUPER hard. like literally all day
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<risson> worldofpeace++
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 218
<drakonis> worldofpeace: it is always great to see this kind of work
<drakonis> refreshing to see such growth
<betawaffle> DigitalKiwi: it's a random joke response
<vandenoever> great to be able to watch these talks live with many other nixers
<lae> (youtube streams under 12h get automatically archived until the channel owner privates/deletes it)
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<betawaffle> gchristensen++
<{^_^}> gchristensen's karma got increased to 350
<infinisil> worldofpeace++ edef++ puck++ qyliss++
<{^_^}> edef's karma got increased to 19
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 219
<{^_^}> qyliss's karma got increased to 80
<{^_^}> puck's karma got increased to 19, it's a crit!
<worldofpeace> [0x4A6F]: hehe, which one?
<worldofpeace> me or the cyborg diva?
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<Ox4A6F> worldofpeace: both
<bew> > "worldofpeace:" + lovelyclaps + lovelyclaps
<{^_^}> "worldofpeace:❤️👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋❤️❤️👋👋👋❤️❤️👋👋👋❤️👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋❤️❤️👋👋👋❤️❤️👋👋👋"
<aleph-> All the fun nixOPs ones are tomorrow thankfully.
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<worldofpeace> risson: I actually didn't get to see your talk entirely because of things. I'm for sure going to watch it back, though
<aleph-> Which I'll still sleep through heh
<worldofpeace> [0x4A6F]: awesome ✨
<sphalerite> watching risson's talk right now :D
<risson> worldofpeace: thanks! let me know if you have any questions and what you think of it!
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<bew> risson: what was your talk?
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<risson> Bringing NixOS to my school
<DigitalKiwi> worldofpeace: big o not zero
<bew> Ah yes it's you, ok!
<aleph-> Is there a channel/playlist for all the streams?
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<drakonis> yes
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<sphalerite> DigitalKiwi: wow good eye. That's a very sneaky name.
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<bew> risson++ :)
<{^_^}> risson's karma got increased to 7
<aleph-> Ah found it
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<DigitalKiwi> sphalerite: lol it's come up before and also i have nick highlighting
<aleph-> Hmm, vids aren't up yet. Meh I can wait
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<sphalerite> aleph-: you can also catch up on the stream, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sQa04olUA0 which is what I'm doing to see risson's talk
<sphalerite> not as convenient to navigate as individual videos but it works
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<manveru> damn, i'm late to the party... been working all day :(
<sphalerite> I love the idea of booting via bittorrent.
<bew> sphalerite: now we need someone to add timestamp to the streaming video so it's usable to jump from talk to talk
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<drakonis> did a talk not happen today?
<aleph-> Hmm, alright. That proxmox talk has me inspired. Gonna see about porting proxmox services to nixOS again
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<aleph-> sphalerite: Ah nice, thanks
<Raito_Bezarius> srhb: was the mavenix for me?
<Raito_Bezarius> aleph-: wow, did the proxmox talk started :DDDD ?
<Raito_Bezarius> because I am not here YET
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<Raito_Bezarius> drakonis: yes
<Raito_Bezarius> drakonis: the intelligent reco
<drakonis> yeah
<drakonis> yisroel's
<aleph-> Raito_Bezarius: It hasn't, that's tomorrow
<Raito_Bezarius> aleph-: indeed, i'm the speaker
<aleph-> oh lolol
<Raito_Bezarius> :D
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<aleph-> Raito_Bezarius: Well thanks for the inspiration haha
<Raito_Bezarius> aleph-: you're welcome! :)
* aanderse looks for `the-pub` channel... ;-)
<aleph-> Been meaning to get some kind of VM clustering working for ages
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<Raito_Bezarius> Alas, I'm not going to show super cool features but hopefully it's the first piece to enable interesting stuff like private infrastructure controlled by NixOps
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<Raito_Bezarius> I'm still dreaming of reproducing autoscaling using NixOps
<Raito_Bezarius> on a Proxmox cluster
<sphalerite> Raito_Bezarius: huh, but it's listed for today on the schedule?
<aleph-> Are you in Sat already?
<manveru> Raito_Bezarius: i've been working on a autoscaling nomad cluster for the past 3 months... but using terranix :)
<Raito_Bezarius> sphalerite: there is a bug
<Raito_Bezarius> on the calendar on the website
<Raito_Bezarius> it's for tomorrow
<sphalerite> ok
<Raito_Bezarius> but maybe your timezone has something different
<Raito_Bezarius> manveru: interesting!
<Raito_Bezarius> I'd like to avoid containers stuff
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<Raito_Bezarius> and provision rather virtual machines
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<lovesegfault> o/
<lovesegfault> catching up on all the talks
<Raito_Bezarius> manveru: I think arianvp talked about nomad for nix too
<manveru> Raito_Bezarius: not using containers at all
<Raito_Bezarius> manveru: oh, so it's actual VMs ?
<Raito_Bezarius> what kind of hypervisor do you use behind?
<Raito_Bezarius> i'm not super familiar with nomad details
<manveru> i actually wrap each nomad job in a systemd-run sandbox
<Raito_Bezarius> okay, so it's LXC/namespaces, right?
<andi-> Where is the afterparty? ;)
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<DigitalKiwi> Raito_Bezarius: just to be sure you should give your talk now
<manveru> so nix generates the exact dependencies and builds a closure that i can add to the visible paths
<sphalerite> andi-: you just entered it!
<gchristensen> berkshire county, see you soon!
<Raito_Bezarius> DigitalKiwi: no
<MichaelRaskin> We could start one in /water-cooler ?
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<DigitalKiwi> :(
<aleph-> manveru: Nifty
<Raito_Bezarius> DigitalKiwi: alas
<andi-> gchristensen: My helicopter is in the shop this week.. too bad..
<gchristensen> :(
<Raito_Bezarius> my talk is 13:45 UTC
<Raito_Bezarius> CEST *****
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<Raito_Bezarius> on saturday
<manveru> i somehow totally missed the call for speakers, otherwise i'd have done a presentation on it :P
<aleph-> Should use clustered stuff at home more
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<Raito_Bezarius> manveru: I filled out the presentation on the LAST DAY
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<Raito_Bezarius> :D
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<Raito_Bezarius> I initially filled 4 talks, based on what I've done last year, but didn't have time to do the 4 at my highest quality
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<jonringer> worldofpeace++
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 220
<DigitalKiwi> manveru: twitch it
<Raito_Bezarius> +1
<Raito_Bezarius> manveru: okay I understand more your setup
<manveru> DigitalKiwi: i don't have the bandwidth for streaming much...
<Raito_Bezarius> you're using namespaces
<manveru> Raito_Bezarius: yeah
<Raito_Bezarius> manveru: do a demo video :p
<Raito_Bezarius> I'm not that much confident in systemd features yet
<manveru> so you `nix copy` the nomad job first, and then you can just run it from the cache|nix-sotre
<Raito_Bezarius> I'm afraid of buggy stuff if I want to do advanced networking things
<Raito_Bezarius> (e.g. leaking traffic from network namespaces)
<Raito_Bezarius> also, live migrating VMs is a nice feature
<manveru> tbh i don't do network namespacing even
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<Raito_Bezarius> I'm interested into multi-tenancy
<manveru> nomad gives dynamic port assignment, which is good enough for most things
<aleph-> Welp, that you should be fun making sure all these deps work for building proxmox. https://git.proxmox.com/?p=pve-common.git;a=blob_plain;f=README.dev;hb=HEAD
<Raito_Bezarius> so that's pretty much required if I want to do VXLAN
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<Raito_Bezarius> fortunately, I am not planning on building proxmox yet aleph- :p
<Raito_Bezarius> controlling proxmox is fun enough using NixOps and their API
<aleph-> Heheheh
<risson> You still have to install proxmox using proxmox right
<nh2[m]> [0x4A6F]: we hear your stream through your mic :D
<Raito_Bezarius> risson: you can actually install it using Debian
<aleph-> risson: I'm looking to build the core services for nixOS
<Raito_Bezarius> from a working Debian machine
<aleph-> Although currently yes
<risson> yeah same, not using nix then
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<Raito_Bezarius> yeah, provisioning Proxmox nodes is outside of the scope of my talk
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<risson> aleph-: ohhh that would be interesting
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<risson> Like very much
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<Raito_Bezarius> Arguably, that could be done using netboot and Nix too
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<risson> (:
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<Raito_Bezarius> and I can provide NixOps plugin :p
<Raito_Bezarius> as long as it is a Proxmox-compliant API
<Raito_Bezarius> end to end NixOS infrastructure
<lae> not nix but if you do have a few debian nodes built via preseed or w/e there is an ansible role for building out pve
<Ox4A6F> nh2: sorry, fixed
<Raito_Bezarius> I'd love to see a VyOS for NixOS and that would complete most of my infra
<manveru> fzakaria: i would love to hear you thoughts on packaging sbt-built apps
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<aleph-> Raito_Bezarius: Always #nixos-routers
<Raito_Bezarius> there is an actual channel that clever mentioned on it
<aleph-> Or whatever it is
<gchristensen> #nixos-on-your-router
<Raito_Bezarius> #nixos-on-your-router
<Raito_Bezarius> indeed
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<Raito_Bezarius> what I would really love someday but find complicated would be NixOS configuration as an HTTP API
<risson> never used proxmox and just browsing their repositories and there's a lot
<Raito_Bezarius> so that I could change dynamically some stuff, e.g. if my DNS is a Nix expression, I could dynamically change it
<risson> another rabbit hole I must prevent myself going down
<Raito_Bezarius> risson: plus, it's Perl
<Raito_Bezarius> but I'd advise you to install it and try it, it's quite cool :p
<fzakaria> manveru: what i see would be a good path is making Maven top class then relying that it's a common format to export to for many other tools: https://www.scala-sbt.org/1.0/api/sbt/internal/librarymanagement/MakePom.html
<fzakaria> The reason is that they ultimately want to deploy to Maven Central so having a pom of some sort is useful.
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<manveru> fzakaria: i tried using sbtix to build a native image... but i have no clue about java building :|
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<manveru> so wasn't really successful when it came to native dependencies of the jars
<fzakaria> You mean JARS that have dependencies on native libraries ?
<manveru> yes
<fzakaria> (dlopen)
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<bew> Did any talk talked about adding types to the Nix language? Similar (maybe simpler) to dhall
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<fzakaria> manveru: i can't find a good link yet but you need to set java.library.path to the Nix paths.
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<sphalerite> bew: there was something a couple of years ago, but I think that was just a bachelor's thesis that didn't see much further work after it was finished
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<LambdaDuck> There was some discussion about adding types, but I'm not sure if it was in a talk or in a Q&A room on jitsi.
<fzakaria> java.library.path: List of paths to search when loading libraries
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<bew> LambdaDuck: sphalerite: I'm watching the first talk from eelco, might be in there
<sphalerite> ah, yes I guess that's sort of adding types to nix
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<edef> also, reminder that there's Mutable shirts and stickers for y'all over at https://mutable.io/nixcon ^_^
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<manveru> edef: nice!
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<pie_> is the school guy on irc?
<manveru> edef: actually wearing last years' atm, the mutineer one looks cool
<edef> these shirts are so fresh off the press even *i* haven't gotten my hands on them myself, i'm very much looking forward to the mutineer one too
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<edef> pie_: i think you're looking for risson?
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<pie_> yeah, just found him in -qa actually
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<edef> ^_^
<risson> I'm here too
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<dtz> wait what is this about t-shirts, and is it too late to give someone $$ to send me one? lol
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<NixBridge> w​dtz[discord]: oh I see the mutable, dunno how missed that O:). Sorry :).
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<edef> dtz: https://mutable.io/nixcon — they're Mutable shirts, not NixCon shirts
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puck changed the topic of #nixcon to: Nixcon 2020 will be back tomorrow, same place @ https://2020.nixcon.org/live.html | To ask speakers questions join #nixcon-qa | ad-hoc breakout rooms https://cryptpad.piratenpartei.de/code/#/2/code/edit/nNNcnWiDb1S0EYH3fTYo+FoM/
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<nbathum> regnat: ping
<dtz> edef: tyvm
<bew> To all Mutable ppl: I'm discovering Mutable, looks absolutely great, would love to work in a company like this in a few years (;
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<pie__> edef: nh2: throwback https://youtu.be/iWAowLWNra8?t=1909
<pie__> now that i actually have some experience with rr this makes a lot more sense
<pie__> at the time i didnt get that there was such strong precedent
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<nh2[m]> pie__: that was also a very nice nixcon
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<clever> > pkgsStatic.nix
<risson> > pkgs.staticNix
<{^_^}> attribute 'staticNix' missing, at (string):343:1
<{^_^}> "<derivation /nix/store/6ha9ljq4pj00xpmg8ih8kazyny83rwmr-nix-2.3.7-x86_64-unknown-linux-musl.drv>"
<risson> can we get the size of that derivation
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<clever> risson: trying to build it...
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<aminechikhaoui> Heh, nice to see some Arab people in the nix community :-) Hi fzakaria 👋
<aminechikhaoui> (watching the talk now :) )
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* fzakaria waves
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<pinpox> sorry if this has been asked befor, but is the stream's recording available somewhere? I missed some talks
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<aminechikhaoui> I'm watching the youtube recording https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sQa04olUA0
<risson> 2fast4me
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<bew> Do you know a good way to read messages I missed on irc, without setting up a znc middleware, like is there an archive of everything?
<bew> (specifically the last hour or so of this channel)
<pinpox> Thanks!
<Dandellion> bew: this chat seems to have been bridged to some discord channel
<lassulus> bew: generally no, for nixos related channels there is https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixcon/2020-10-16
<pinpox> aminechikhaoui: risson It's "not listed" in youtube, is that inteded?
<Dandellion> I would guess the chat would be archived there
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<risson> pinpox: i have no clue
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<bew> Dandellion & lassulus: perfect thanks!
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<bew> Dandellion: do you know the discord link?
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<NixBridge> p​niedzwiedzinski[discord]: https://discord.gg/RMgM9c
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<Henson> is only the live video available to watch on Youtube, or is there a way to go back and watch the feed from today over again?
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<samueldr> if you access the link to the "live" feed it serves the whole stream
<samueldr> I was just about to ask if there was a list of timestamps to talks
<samueldr> let me start with the robotnix talk: https://youtu.be/7sQa04olUA0?t=22313 (skipping the intro, booooo)
<samueldr> (boooo me)
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<clever> samueldr: if you edit the youtube description and add `12:34 robotnix`, then you get a link to skip right there
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<samueldr> but I cannot!
<clever> samueldr: youtube will also label it in the seek bar, so you can see how long it is
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<NixBridge> b​ew[discord]: > https://discord.gg/RMgM9c
<NixBridge> b​ew[discord]: @pniedzwiedzinski Thanks 😊
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<samueldr> though that reminded me it works in comments too
<clever> samueldr: yep, but cant rename things in the seek bar
<samueldr> yeah
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<Kranzes> bruh
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<__red__> so - umm
<__red__> did the youtube link for today disappear?
<__red__> I was watching it in aother room - came upstarirs to switch machines and I no longer see it...
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<clever> __red__: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sQa04olUA0 its just an unlisted video
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<__red__> thanks
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<NixBridge> s​etheron[discord]: @bew i use Quassel which is super simple and is a client/server IRC setup (not a bouncer)
<NixBridge> s​etheron[discord]: I wrote about it: https://fzakaria.com/2020/09/02/quassel-core-on-nixos-with-let-s-encrypt.html
<NixBridge> s​etheron[discord]: You can even login from your phone and share history.
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<samueldr> +1 for quassel from me
<samueldr> though for historic reason it goes through znc *too*
<fzakaria> I'm using it on my public IP with self-signed certificates, but now that i have Tailscale setup, i should move to using that instead.
<samueldr> which can be a bonus if you prefer another IRC client, but want quassel for mobile and history use
<fzakaria> I haven't yet added another user to my quassel server, but if you want I can do so.
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<fzakaria> samueldr: what's the setup with how you use IRC logs ? I wonder if there's a way to do that with quassel easily.
<samueldr> you mean the logs.nix.samueldr.com?
<samueldr> that's whitequark's IRC logger, not related to quassel
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<samueldr> though I did use a simple stupid script to first import from my quassel logs
<fzakaria> oh cool
<fzakaria> quassel-rest-search:
<fzakaria> quassel-rest-search is a web application for searching quassel logs. It provides both a HTTP API and a web application.
<hexa-> +2 for weechat from me :p
<samueldr> fzakaria: logger: https://github.com/whitequark/irclogger
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<evernite> \leave
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<edef> i think you want the other slash :p
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<NixBridge> b​ew[discord]: > @bew i use Quassel which is super simple and is a client/server IRC setup (not a bouncer)
<NixBridge> b​ew[discord]: @setheron thanks a lot!
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