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<disasm> I'm just a n00b... There's launchd.daemons instead of launchd.user.agents. openvpn now works from nix :)
<disasm> PR in for openvpn
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<copumpkin> are things fairly healthy on 10.13.2 now?
<copumpkin> since it seems to have patches for the infoleak bugs, we might be getting a lot of upgrades
<LnL> I think so
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<LnL> there was an issue when rebuilding the stdenv a while back, but that was fixed
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<LnL> somebody did have an issue with the installer that I couldn't figure out
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<disasm> I'm on 10.13.2 and haven't come across any issues
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<gchristensen> copumpkin, LnL I don't get why 32 is the right number of builders
<copumpkin> it's better than 31
<copumpkin> one better
<copumpkin> (no idea)
<copumpkin> (all numbers seem arbitrary fwiw)
<niksnut> copumpkin: 32 is what NixOS uses nowadays
<copumpkin> niksnut: with proper sandboxing, is the separate user thing still necessary?
<copumpkin> what's teh scenario it guards against?
<copumpkin> one day I'll write up a doc with all these considerations
<niksnut> how would you kill processes without it?
<copumpkin> in linux, with a cgroup
<copumpkin> on macOS, fair enough
<copumpkin> although there might be weird mac-specific stuff we can dig up
<gchristensen> I'm just confused I guess, I thought nix used the setting of maxJobs for the number of buildUsers
<niksnut> nix.nrBuildUsers = mkDefault (lib.max 32 cfg.maxJobs);
<gchristensen> why 32 though? why not just be maxJobs?
<niksnut> because then it will be way too low for many systems
<LnL> gchristensen: I just used what nixos has
<niksnut> e.g. if maxJobs = 1 and you run two nix builds in parallel, the second one will fail
<gchristensen> when would it be too low if it won't run more jobs than build users? I feel like I'm missing an important thing
<LnL> gchristensen: problem is that you can run with -j16 even if you only have 4 cores
<LnL> that fails like that issue
<gchristensen> new issue: if I run it with -j100 it fails on my server with 96 cores. is the issue nix, or is the issue the caller passing too high of a -j?
<copumpkin> niksnut: so process signalling is the only reason we keep users around?
<LnL> true
<copumpkin> would be lovely to kill the need altogether
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<gchristensen> maybe the issue is Nix if we don't block until build users are available?
<niksnut> yes
<niksnut> copumpkin: no, the main reason is to isolate builds from each other
<gchristensen> ok, then a band-aid of 32 users makes sense to me :)
<copumpkin> niksnut: yeah but I don't get how it helps if we already have namespace isolation and the like
<niksnut> copumpkin: I wouldn't rely on namespace isolation...
<copumpkin> what does it prevent that would otherwise be allowed?
<copumpkin> oh, so it's a backstop
<niksnut> I think it's very dangerous to assume that processes with the same uid in different pid namespaces can't affect each other
<niksnut> e.g. resource controls are global, iirc
<gchristensen> that surely sounds like a safe position to take
<copumpkin> fair enough
<copumpkin> if we're using ephemeral users there's not much overhead anyway
<copumpkin> I just wish we could avoid it on macOS :)
<disasm> so I just tried removing all the stuff I installed in nix-env before I tried nix-darwin and got this error: error: derivation '/nix/store/frc6gyxs9nlh63x5ci1v6mgii0kz0j9p-user-environment.drv' specifies a sandbox profile, but this is only allowed when 'sandbox' is 'relaxed'
<LnL> yeah, nix-env doesn't like sandboxing yet
<LnL> I tried fixing that a few days ago, but ran into some issues with libSystem and impure stuff :/
<disasm> how can I kill those packages? :) is there a way to temporarily disable the sandbox to run one command?
<copumpkin> huh
<LnL> --option build-use-sandbox false
<copumpkin> that breaks if you delete it?
<LnL> yes, the buildenv binary tries to load something from /usr/lib/system/ that's allowed in the sandbox
<niksnut> copumpkin: oh, I forgot the most important reason, namely filesystem isolation
<niksnut> you don't want builders messing with each other's output
<disasm> yay! thanks :)
<copumpkin> niksnut: but aren't the outputs the only RW bind mounts?
<copumpkin> or are you still assuming no namespaces?
<gchristensen> /build and friends
<copumpkin> sure
<copumpkin> but those are already separate aren't they?
<LnL> err I mean not allowed :p
<disasm> how do most folks handle dns for different internal domains on osx? I've been playing with /etc/resolver/<domain> but then for example, if I need a hostname like remote.domain.com to resolve not using the internal server to connect to the vpn I can't connect to the vpn. On NixOS I just used dnsmasq with a bunch of address, server and cnames listed in extraConfigs
<copumpkin> LnL: does it work if we add the builder of a derivation to the dependency scanner?
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<copumpkin> it seems like it should
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<LnL> oh I've not tried to run resolve-system-dependencies manually
<copumpkin> I just mean either adding impureDeps for the same path as builder
<copumpkin> or doing that on the derivation side, since it seems like it might be the right thing to do in general
<LnL> I'll have to take another look, I did fix the frameworks issue
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<pikajude> hmmm, that one rustc test on high sierra still fails for me
<pikajude> how odd
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<pikajude> oh, it's because it's a known issue for high sierra
<pikajude> maybe i can add the patch
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<LnL> but it fails pretty often so we should probably disable it
<LnL> that reminds me, pretty sure I forgot to make a pr with my sandbox fixes
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<johnw> right now I'm fighting the good fight with ghc-mod
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<johnw> yay, somebody finally fixed qemu
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<johnw> LnL: so, switching to nix-daemon with nix-darwin broke the remote building stuff we setup the other day
<LnL> ah right, look at nix.distributedBuilds and nix.buildMachines
<johnw> k
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<johnw> how do I setup an SSH authorized key for the nix user?
<gchristensen> for remote builders, or?
<johnw> oh, hy
<johnw> hey
<LnL> oh also if you update the repo before that the daemon will get reloaded automatically now :)
<johnw> the docs tell me what to do
<johnw> LnL: great!
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<johnw> LnL: when I go to the remote machine, there is no ~nix
<johnw> should i add it for every nixbld[0-9]* user?
<johnw> or pick johnw?
<LnL> hmm, what are you looking at?
<johnw> one sec
<johnw> ooh, I like the CHANGELOG
<johnw> LnL: is there a way to vary the value of buildMachines based on which machine I'm running darwin-rebuild on?
<johnw> sweet, you're the best LnL
<johnw> i.e., I only want to use hermes as a build machine from vulcan, not from hermes
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<johnw> hmm config.networking.hostName
<LnL> I have imports = [ ~/.nixpkgs/local-configuration.nix ]; in my local config
<johnw> ah
<johnw> is there a better way to refer to my $HOME in this file?
<johnw> rather than explicitly giving /Users/johnw?
<LnL> depends on the context
<LnL> nixpkgs uses builtins.getEnv "HOME"
<johnw> and is there an equivalent to --leq for darwin-rebuild?
<LnL> it's declarative, there's no way not to do a full rebuild
<johnw> i mean, say I reference qemu
<johnw> a dependency of qemu changes, but qemu's version has not
<johnw> will qemu rebuild? -u it wouldn't, -u --leq it would
<LnL> yes that rebuilds
<johnw> k
<johnw> i've switched to the "unstable" channel, to avoid a little extra churn
<LnL> nix-env has some special magic that looks at the package names and checks if the version changed
<johnw> I wonder why *-rebuild and nix-env don't share magic?
<LnL> nix-env compares the current evaluation with ~/.nix-profile/manifest.nix
<LnL> nix-build and *-rebuild always generates the same build regardless of the current active prfile
<johnw> so, now my system is divided between packages installed by nix-darwin, and user packages installed by nix-env. Since my user pckages is where all the churn occurs, this is a much better separation. It means I can darwin-rebuild even when nix-env would have required 10+ hours to update
<ldlework> How do people here handle opening say Emacs from places other than the shell, and having it have the proper PATH?
<ldlework> on OSX
<ldlework> Like from spotlight, etc
<johnw> Idlework: you could make a wrapper in /usr/bin/ that sources /etc/bashrc (or sets the Nix shell variables) and then invokes the Emacs you want
<ldlework> open -n -a ~/.nix-profile/Applications/Emacs.app
<ldlework> hmm
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<johnw> I actually had to do this with Firefox yesterday
<johnw> in order to get a plugin to see my Nix-based GnuPG agent
<LnL> I always thought systemctl setenv would help there, but apparently not
<ldlework> could I just execute bash directly
<ldlework> instead of open
<johnw> yes:
<johnw> ~/.nix-profile/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/Emacs
<ldlework> ?
<johnw> you can just run that binary
<johnw> no need to use "open"
<johnw> bash -c ~/.nix-profile/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/Emacs
<ldlework> Hmm there was some reason I needed to use open but I'll try this
<johnw> well, "open" has the benefit of opening at most 1 Emacs application
<johnw> doing it directly like this may open severa/l
<johnw> have you thought of using emacsclient instead?
<johnw> to talk to a single Emacs that you keep running?
<ldlework> I think I'm explicitly using open so that I get multiple instances
<ldlework> I don't want a single emacs
<johnw> oh, in that case, don't bother with open
<johnw> just run the binary directly yoursefl
<LnL> I think -n makes it open a new instance
<ldlework> yeah
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<ldlework> So I am opening emacs from hammerspoon
<ldlework> And it seems if I just use bash and execute the binary directly then hammerspoon hangs
<ldlework> so I think open is helping with that
<johnw> yes, open is like running it from bash with "&" at the end
<johnw> running it directly will block until Emacs quits
<ldlework> So how do we combine the best of both worlds?
<ldlework> :)
<johnw> so, basically open is using the environment variables present at login to your GUI session
<johnw> the same as any Application would see
<johnw> while bash is seeing what results from executing the bash scripts you get when you start a shell in your terminal
<ldlework> oh the hammerspoon execute() takes a bool to run user environment scripts
<johnw> nice!
<ldlework> easy button :)
<johnw> yay, ghc-mod restored
<johnw> now if only idris and liquidhaskell worked again
<johnw> oh, and poor threadscope; I haven't been able to build him in more than a year
<disasm> think I'm going to fix openconnect on darwin. It looks like homebrew just grabs vpnc-script without installing vpnc. Should I create a separate package for vpnc-script and do something like if darwin use this, otherwise, use vpnc as buildInput.
<johnw> I just noticed that when you "git clone", the sample hook scripts get rewritten to point to a particular store path's bash
<johnw> that seems like a bad idea
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<johnw> LnL: I'm trying to start a build, but am getting: error: all build users are currently in use; consider creating additional users and adding them to the ‘nixbld’ group
<johnw> do you know what this is about?
<LnL> are you using -j
<johnw> yes, -j12
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<johnw> intended it to use 4 for hermes, and 8 locally
<johnw> I only have hermes in my buildMachines
<johnw> do I need the localhost there too?
<johnw> note that -j8 appears to work fine
<LnL> yeah, the bootstrap script only creates 10
<johnw> ah!
<LnL> and if you "build" more stuff (including stuff like buildEnv) it will fail like that
<johnw> if I get an 18-core iMac, I'll need to create like 24 of them :)
<LnL> I created a pr for the nix installer, but I should also update my boostrap script
<johnw> i've now completed switched from 1Password+Duo to pass
<johnw> and passforios
<johnw> and browserpass and pass.el!
<johnw> LnL: how did you figure out which numbers to use?
<LnL> that documentation link has a table with the numbers
<johnw> derp
<johnw> I should remap the keys that I type bugs with, to ones that don't make bugs
<LnL> ofcorse the thing I want is not in there
<johnw> visit the link, I still can't see where those numbers came from
<johnw> I see a table full of really low values
<johnw> <255
<johnw> but you've got 30064771076
<LnL> hmm right
<LnL> don't remember then
<johnw> ah, that's 16#700000004
<LnL> 0x700000000 or’d with the desired keyboard usage value
<LnL> aparently
<johnw> right
<LnL> because why not give a table with the correct values
<johnw> I guess 0x700000000 = shift
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