<tilpner> greglearns___ - In your position, I would just give in and install rustup :/
<copumpkin> the rust stuff in nixpkgs is still pretty young, unfortunately
<greglearns___> but, with rustup, I can't use nixOps... (I think)
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<greglearns___> tilpner how were you using rust nightly in your projects?
<tilpner> greglearns___ - I was using rustNightlyBin from nixpkgs. I migrated to stable, so I didn't need that anymore. When I tried to make the old .nix files work again, I hit the same error
<greglearns___> stable nix? or stable rust?
<tilpner> Stable Rust
<greglearns___> have you done rust web dev? any recommendations for what works with stable/
<tilpner> Oh, it's been years... I was using Iron, but I didn't even know what Nix was back then, and Rust was pre-1.0
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<greglearns___> ok, thanks (as a single tear rolls down my cheek)
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<greglearns___> tilpner I really appreciate your help today. You got me unstuck!
<tilpner> What? I thought we ended up right where we started? :/
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<dalaing> any recommendations around a vps for a NixOS machine?
<greglearns___> well, we did, BUT now I know that it's not going to work to fight that tide... before, I felt like I was missing something. NOW, I'm feeling like something between NixOS and Rust's implementation is just broken and so it's not worth fighting it for now... so, I can peacefully move on to using stable Rust on Nix and sleep well tonight.
<tilpner> dalaing - I'm running mine on Vultr
<tilpner> greglearns___ - Oh, okay. That's a very optimistic view :D
<greglearns___> *laughing* OR, the peaceful resignation that comes when one is fully beaten :-)
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Ericson2314 opened pull request #27368: cc-wrapper: Unify and improve dynamic linker flag logic (staging...cc-wrapper-interpreter) https://git.io/vQQPo
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<dalaing> tilpner: thanks for that
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<dalaing> Hetzner looks to have some pretty decent pricing, trying to work out how much pain I'd have to go through to set things up there
<dalaing> I guess in that case I could just follow the NixOps manual and see how I go
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] yegortimoshenko opened pull request #27369: darkhttpd: update homepage (master...patch-3) https://git.io/vQQPA
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<tilpner> dalaing - Hetzner appears to have nixops support, Vultr support is currently pending: https://github.com/NixOS/nixops/pull/634
<tilpner> dalaing - In comparison to other VPS providers, Vultr allows uploading an ISO, making the "Install NixOS from a recovery image" trick unnecessary
<dalaing> I'm not sure if I'm reading the prices wrong, or if I'm not making an apples-to-apples comparison, but Hetzner looks much cheaper for similar specs
<dalaing> ie $35/month vs $120/month for similar specs
<tilpner> That's much larger than my server is. Are you looking at Hetzners dedicated or virtual servers?
<gchristensen> dalaing: I use packet.net a lot
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<dalaing> tilpner: I've looked at both, and the price ratio seems fairly stable
<mpcsh> dalaing: try vultr.com
<tilpner> dalaing - If you don't have any experience with Hetzner, maybe ask around (though I've mostly heard good things about them). Some issues aren't immediately apparent
<dalaing> Hetzner seems about 4x cheaper (or more) than vultr or packet.net
<dalaing> maybe I should drink more coffee and read the fine print more carefully
<tilpner> (Like "Oops, we rebooted your stuff, hope you don't mind")
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<tilpner> If you care a lot about, get both and do benchmarks :)
<mpcsh> tilpner: my vultr instance is $2.50/month, hetzner looks more expensive??
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* tilpner -> dalaing
<dalaing> I'm look at 4 cores / 16 GB of RAM and up, maybe that's where the disconnect is
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<mpcsh> dalaing: ahh, in that case I'm not sure what the best option is
* dalaing wipes forehead
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<dalaing> I thought I was missing something more crucial
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<dalaing> vultr and packet.net both look pretty great for the smaller instances
<gchristensen> even for big instances it is well pricede
<gchristensen> (big instances are just expensive)
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<copumpkin> anyone have a linux nix box to test a tiny expression for me?
<copumpkin> I normally do but am not able to get in right now
<gchristensen> sure
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<dalaing> the packet.net type 1 server ($292/month) looks to have a near equivalent by specs on Hetzner ($45/month)
<copumpkin> gchristensen: can you try the expression in https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/27370?
<copumpkin> just nix-build it
<dalaing> that's what lead to the question - I'm wondering if I'm reading something drastically wrong
<gchristensen> dalaing: hetzner might be older, or might not have 2x bonded gigabit nics
<gchristensen> copumpkin: 17.03 ok?
<copumpkin> sure
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<gchristensen> commented
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<copumpkin> gchristensen: thanks! I fixed it to actually produce output
<copumpkin> so you don't have to dinstinguish "good failure" from bad failure :P
<gchristensen> works for me
<copumpkin> cool, thanks
<copumpkin> but fails on darwin, right?
<copumpkin> :D
<copumpkin> it fails on mine, that's good enough for me
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<yegortimoshenko> copumpkin: going to test your 10.13 nix build in several hours
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<dalaing> gchristensen: seems like the hetzner servers I'm looking at have a dedicated 1Gb uplink - which is probably fine for us
<gchristensen> ok
<dalaing> Australian internet softens the impact of that for us I guess :)
<gchristensen> ouch
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<mpcsh> hey all, I'm using lightdm and bspwm, but whenever I switch to a tty (e.g. ctrl+alt+f2), bspwm quits, and I can't find a way to start lightdm again. what gives?
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<mpcsh> *headdesk* but I didn't think to try systemctl start display-manager....
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<Infinisil> mpcsh: Does it actually quit? It's on the 7th terminal
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<Infinisil> Ctrl-Alt-F7
<Infinisil> Ohh you solved it, never mind
<Infinisil> But it shouldn't terminate just by doing that
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<mpcsh> Infinisil: so you're right, it doesn't terminate, but I still can't bring it back up - Ctrl-Alt-F7 (or any F key above 6) does nothing
<mpcsh> (but ctrl-alt-f{1-6} work fine)
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<Infinisil> mpcsh: Weird, no idea
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<mpcsh> different note, does anyone know how to enable command-not-found?
<Infinisil> Oh i too would like to know
<tilpner> Try programs.command-not-found.enable = true;
<vaibhavsagar> hi, how do I check the latest version of a PyPI package for download?
<vaibhavsagar> I can't browse pypi.io/packages/source
<vaibhavsagar> and doing the obvious thing (nix-prefetch-url mirror://pypi/b/bash_kernel/0.6.tar.gz) doesn't work
<mpcsh> tilpner: that did it, thanks!!
<Infinisil> tilpner: Weird that doesn't work for me, option isn't there
<tilpner> You two might be on different versions. It's also not yet listed in the web options search
<Infinisil> Hmm, I'm using the 17.03 channel
<Infinisil> and I can see it via grepping
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<radvendii> what is command-not-found? It sounds useful...
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<Infinisil> radvendii: I think instead of complaining that a command wasn't found which is available in this package, it just directly installs the package and runs the command
<radvendii> O.o
<radvendii> that's crazy talk
<radvendii> does it do it in a nix-shell?
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<radvendii> like is it like running `nix-shell -p thing --run "thing"`, or like installing it with nix-env?
<Infinisil> I don't know, the option isn't available for me so I can't checkt
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<Infinisil> Wait I just had a look at unstable, seems to work there, not in 17.03 though
<Infinisil> Not sure if I wanna use unstable..
<radvendii> oh so it just tells you what to install
<radvendii> seems really nice then
<radvendii> does anyone know if it works for zsh? it only mentions bash
<radvendii> oh...
<radvendii> now i'm just embarassed
<radvendii> :P
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<Infinisil> ;)
<Infinisil> Poor fish
<Infinisil> doesn't get it
<radvendii> aw
<radvendii> (they should be using zsh though)
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<Infinisil> I'm thinking about just cherrypicking this file so i can use it in 17.03..
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<radvendii> Infinisil: what's the hesitation on upgrading?
<Infinisil> radvendii: Not sure, I just don't want to mess up my system and unstable has that potential
<radvendii> I haven't had any more problems on unstable than on stable really, but I might just be lucky
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<Infinisil> Maybe, I've had enough problems with {hard,soft}ware lately, I'm glad if it just works
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<Infinisil> Happy 1.5b! Even though nobody's here right now
<paperd> Hello
<joehh> is there any reason why "Preprocessing library xxx" when running cabal build would start taking minutes to run with cpu sitting at 100%?
<joehh> using nixos and ghc 8.0.
<joehh> 2
<paperd> how can I fix error: Typesafe Activator was removed in 2017-05-08 as the actual package reaches end of life.
<Infinisil> paperd: Seems like a dead package to me, why do you need it?
<Infinisil> You need to get an old version back somehow if you really need it
<paperd> Infinisil: I don't need it
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<paperd> when I do nix-build -f ~/.nixpkgs -iA hello it throws that error
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<paperd> or when I try and build anything from nixpkgs
<Infinisil> paperd: I assume ~/.nixpkgs is your local checkout?
<paperd> no, it's master from github
<radvendii> paperd: are you sure? why do you have it under .nixpkgs? that's where config.nix should live
<paperd> I haven't edited config.nix
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<paperd> I don't want to see it when I do an ls in my terminal
<radvendii> oh hm
<radvendii> I'm just wondering if that's the problem, but probably not
<paperd> I cloned to ~/nixpkgs and it throws the same error
<radvendii> okay, not that then
<paperd> It links to a github thread, which I've read, but doesn't really tell me anything.
<Infinisil> paperd: Didn't you mean nix-env instead of nix-build?
<Infinisil> nix-env -f ~/nixpkgs -iA hello
<Infinisil> Works for me
<bhipple> Hi guys, is there a way to get the transitive closure of build-time dependencies of a pkg? I'm trying: nix-store -q --requisites /nix/store/4akxixlbhg18lvm978lgvzf9xfjm148j-fzf-0.16.4 for example, but it doesn't seem to work
<bhipple> In the above case, it just shows glibc, bash, and tzdata
<Infinisil> paperd: Or `cd ~/nixpkgs; nix-build -A hello`
<paperd> Infinisil: yes, that works for me, but I also use nix-build to see if things will build
<bhipple> but I can see from the pkg that ncurses and the whole golang ecosystem is a build input
<Infinisil> bhipple: Maybe you need to work with the .drv in the store instead
<bhipple> Infinisil: aha, 417 lines of output. Looks like that did it, thanks!
<Infinisil> bhipple: Damn that's a lot
<Infinisil> What kind of things are in there?
<paperd> Infinisil: shouldn't nix-build -f ~/.nixpkgs -iA hello build it though?
<Infinisil> paperd: According to my nix-build, there is no such -f flag
<radvendii> paperd: nor is there a -i flag...
<Infinisil> You are most certainly referring to nix-env -f ~/.nixpkgs -iA hello
<radvendii> I feel like there should maybe be a more consistent flag-scheme for nix-* functions
<paperd> Infinisil: I must be, thank you.
<Infinisil> radvendii: It's pretty consistent if you ask me, what's not?
<radvendii> like why isn't there a -f option for nix-build?
<Infinisil> Ah
<radvendii> I don't actually use these commands that much, so I don't know
<tilpner> nixUnstable has $ nix build -f ...
<Infinisil> I feel like nix-build is more for development purposes, in which case you should really be in the correct directory already, not sure though
<Infinisil> tilpner: Oh nice
<tilpner> (But no -a)
<Infinisil> `man nix`
<Infinisil> No manual entry for nix
<Infinisil> :/
<Infinisil> Okay it's unstable, i shouldn't complain about missing manpages
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<paperd> So I've just been typing the wrong command for like months... that is hilarious.
<disasm> I should know Monday if I'm presenting at DevOpsDays Philly on reproducible deployments using nixos... If it doesn't work out, I'm going to go for it and see if my boss will let me go to NixCon in Munich :)
<bhipple> Mostly go, ncurses, openssl, and all the stdenv stuff
<Infinisil> bhipple: Damn, using IPFS for that, pretty sweet
<Infinisil> I've never even thought of that, but it's pretty much perfect for pastebinning stuff
<simpson> Infinisil: Generalization: Systems which let you assign names to data are perfect matches for processes which take names and operate on data.
<bhipple> Infinisil: I have a little script that helps with it, too: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmWy22PRVV1qRu1Mzz6jjg4eJv5Sx5qPadYTyTfhtXZkQD
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<Infinisil> simpson: Well said :D
<Infinisil> bhipple: I'll try setting up a local node so i don't need to use the gateway
<Infinisil> For some reason i get `Error: merkledag: not found` when doing `ipfs cat <hash>`
<Infinisil> Oh I should do services.ipfs.enable = true
<bhipple> You'll also need to put yourself on the IPFS group and add something like environment.variables = { IPFS_PATH = "/var/lib/ipfs/.ipfs"; };
<Infinisil> Ohhh right
<Infinisil> I actually committed this a bit ago so nixos makes ipfs system wide
<Infinisil> So you only need to set the group
<bhipple> yeah, that's how I have mine setup (running as the ipfs user)
<Infinisil> Damnit I can't get it to work
<bhipple> This "works on my machine" :D
<Infinisil> Ohh, I think i know why, group changes sometimes only apply after relogging
<Infinisil> `groups` doesn't show ipfs, but `groups infinisil` does
<Infinisil> brb
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<clever> Infinisil: "exec sudo -i" followed by "exec sudo -u infinisil -i" will fix that one shell
<clever> you can also use "id" to inspect the current groups anduid
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<Infinisil> Well it still doesn't work..
<clever> how far did you logout?
<clever> are you using screen or tmux?
<Infinisil> I did systemctl restart display-manager
<clever> are you using screen or tmux?
<Infinisil> nope
<Infinisil> none of them
<Infinisil> `ipfs cat /ipfs/QmWy22PRVV1qRu1Mzz6jjg4eJv5Sx5qPadYTyTfhtXZkQD`
<Infinisil> Error: merkledag: not found
<Infinisil> Wait no, after export IPFS_PATH=... the error is permission denied
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<clever> what about ls -lhd /var/lib/ipfs
<Infinisil> rwxr-xr-x 3 ipfs ipfs
<Infinisil> Hmm, not writable by group..
<clever> chmod g+w
<Infinisil> Still the same error after sudo chmod -R g+w /var/lib/ipfs
<clever> what directories exist within there?
<bhipple> You submit files to the daemon and it writes them itself in /var/lib/ipfs/.ipfs, from what I can tell. Mine is not group writable but works
<bhipple> Try systemctl status ipfs ?
<clever> ah yeah, and that
<bhipple> I've also seen issues when the system ipfs version != the nix-env ipfs version, if you installed one in your user env
<bhipple> as in, it won't work if that's the case
<Infinisil> .ipfs is the only directory in there, and in there is all the stuff that's supposed to be there
<Infinisil> systemd status is active(running)
<Infinisil> no errors
<Infinisil> ipfs-init status is also ok
<Infinisil> I actually deleted the dir and restarted ipfs-init, still no luck
<Infinisil> bhipple: Ohh, maybe that's it
<bhipple> `ipfs cat QmYBRKUQgSh5iJ2Kp6s7y61mxCekECbAChoYSFeAJmjLsn` doesn't work?
<Infinisil> Nope
<Infinisil> permission denied
<Infinisil> Oh, now it's a different error, i removed ipfs from systemPackages
<Infinisil> still permission denied, but on a different file, I may need to chmod again
<clever> what does "type ipfs" say?
<Infinisil> Nope, lock permission denied again
<Infinisil> /run/current-system/sw/bin/ipfs
<bhipple> `groups` shows you're in IPFS?
<Infinisil> bhipple: Yup
<Infinisil> Well it doesn't really matter much, I'm going to dig into it later, unless you really want to solve this right now
<bhipple> Weird. Good luck
<clever> ive only used it with the data in home
<Infinisil> How can i view the numbers instead of names of groups/users?
<bhipple> `getent passwd`
<Infinisil> And for files?
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<clever> Infinisil: run "id"
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<clever> and stat for a file/dir
<pop> A version of a program I want to use is on the master branch of nixpkgs. When I run `nixos-rebuild switch` it does not pull this version of the application. How can I use the master version of applications?
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<Infinisil> Hmm, nope, it's all 261 for ipfs, am definitely in group, maybe the lock file is taken by something else
<pop> Oops, I just found the --upgrade flag. I'm pretty sure that's what I want.
<vaibhavsagar> pop: clone nixpkgs, and then `nix-env -f <path/to/nixpkgs> -i <application>
<clever> Infinisil: can you pastebin the output of ls -ltrhR /var/lib/ipfs
<vaibhavsagar> in case your package isn't in the latest 17.03
<pop> vaibhavsagar: Where can I find out what's in "the latest 17.03"?
<pop> Just the online nixos packages website thingie?
<Infinisil> clever: Oh, it doesn't show anything, and /var/lib/ipfs/.ipfs is permission denied
<clever> Infinisil: re-run the ls as root
<pop> Thanks vaibhavsagar++
<Infinisil> I also included -a to show hidden ones
<clever> -rw-r--r-- 1 ipfs ipfs 0 Jul 14 05:35 repo.lock
<clever> you lack write to the repo.lock file
<Infinisil> Why though
<clever> and you lack read to many of the files
<clever> you gave yourself write but not read
<Infinisil> Oh, I'll check with g+rw
<Infinisil> Ugh, state is the worst
<bhipple> You can always rm -rf the dir and re-run ipfs init :)
<Infinisil> I tried that, but I'll try again
<bhipple> I don't remember having to do any chmods to get it to work
<Infinisil> Yeah I also remember it working before
<clever> i suspect its failing to contact the daemon
<clever> and just silently trying to access it directly
<hyper_ch> why isn't nixos-unstable channel being updated anymore?
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<Infinisil> Ohh, I've got another clue, journalctl -f spits messages all over: Error: serveHTTPGateway: manet.Listen(/ip4/127.0.0.1/tcp/8080) failed: listen tcp4 127.0.0.1:8080: bind: address already in use
<Infinisil> Oh damn
<Infinisil> my local webserver
<clever> ipfs should probably get a dedicated port
<Infinisil> +++++++1
<bhipple> :D
<bhipple> It's configurable
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] adisbladis opened pull request #27371: pythonPackages.zc_lockfile: 1.0.2 -> 1.2.1 (master...zc_lockfile) https://git.io/vQQFv
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<Infinisil> Yup, that was it, works now, using 8081 for the webserver now
<Infinisil> God damnit
<Infinisil> So many ports, but everybody wants 8080
<simpson> 8080 is just the traditional running-as-user HTTP port.
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<simpson> IPFS really should request a port.
<Infinisil> yeah
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<bhipple> Is there a standard tool for requesting ports on a host?
<clever> i just pick a random number between 1024 and 65535 when i start a project
<Infinisil> bhipple: I think it's more of a "internet organizations declares that port xxx belongs to IPFS and shouldn't be used for anything else"
<clever> yeah, that has to be done for ipfs
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<dash> yeah it's IANA
<Infinisil> Hmm, but this whole port idea is kinda outdated imo
<simpson> bhipple: I mean in the sense of getting a port number from IANA.
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<simpson> Infinisil: Well, yes, but only because TCP's getting a little outdated.
<Infinisil> How about declaring port 0 as the port that says where services are located
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<dash> Infinisil: yes, the future will be all HTTP and the OS will give every process an IPv6 address that can only listen or connect on 80 and 443
<Infinisil> E.g. you send a message to port 0, asking for the io.ipfs service, you get back port xxx
<dash> Infinisil: DNS has SRV records for this
<Infinisil> But DNS is too high of a level, DNS is already above the port abstraction
<Infinisil> The solution I just said sounds actually pretty good
<dash> Infinisil: shrug, it's plausible to use DNS lookups to lookup ports since it's already used to lookup IPs
<simpson> Infinisil: Why can't your message just be "Hi, can I have the data associated with this IPFS hash?" Why must it be anything more?
<clever> dash: i recently switched one of my services to SRV, but now i'm finding new fun bugs
<clever> dash: one users router, doesnt use the record type (a, aaaa, srv) as a key in the cache
<dash> clever: yes, approximately nobody uses it
<clever> dash: so it can return a records when the client asked for srv
<clever> dash: it has even returned aaaa records in response to an a query, with no ipv6 setup
<dash> clever: classy
<Infinisil> simpson: Well ipfs is separated between server and client so you can run it on an actual server, so it needs a port
<dash> clever: someone should visit his house and accidentally break it
<dash> Infinisil: only if you use TCP or UDP
<simpson> Infinisil: I'm asking, *why* do you need ports? Because of TCP/IP, right? Is there any other reason?
<clever> dash: and googles 8.8.8.8 keeps randomly claiming the domain doesnt exist
<clever> simpson: what about rpcbind?
<simpson> clever: NFS is one of those things that we will not need.
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<clever> i think rpcbind just lets you lookup the port behind a named service
<Infinisil> simpson: Hmm, I mean what's the alternative to using ports?
<simpson> Yeah, but literally only NFS uses it~
<dash> Infinisil: a networking system that doesn't use ports
<Infinisil> dash: Example?
<simpson> Infinisil: One alternative is named services. The OSI model has a layer for it. The idea is that, both locally and remotely, you don't actually care which routing port's needed, just whether it's hitting HTTP/FTP/Gopher/etc.
<dash> Infinisil: ethernet, IP, etc etc don't use port numbers, only TCP and UDP do
<simpson> I knew a guy who wrote a daemon to do this in userspace.
<dash> Infinisil: so, something else could be used (over top of any of these) that doesn't use port numbers
<Infinisil> dash: Ah right, but our internet infrastructure would need to be changed
<dash> Infinisil: Not necessarily.
<Infinisil> Every router uses ports for routing I think
<Infinisil> And NAT's
<dash> Infinisil: I recommend Van Jacobson's talk "A New Way To Look At Networking" about this
<dash> Infinisil: he talks about how the Internet got started over top of the original computer network
<simpson> Infinisil: Huh? No, it's really 100% TCP and UDP. IP routers don't care about the ports, except when doing NAT or DPI, which are to both be shunned as rude.
<dash> Infinisil: and about how the process could be repeated
<Infinisil> dash: Sounds interesting
<Infinisil> simpson: Well I guess I'll have to refresh my internet knowledge some more heh
<dash> Infinisil: ah, here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCZMoY3q2uM
<Infinisil> simpson: Oh, right, routers only use dest and src ip address, no port involved
<Infinisil> I totally have an exam about this stuff soon heh
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<Infinisil> Btw, everytime I use sudo, I get an error in my journalctl: https://gist.github.com/Infinisil/9dec5277729592a8062955c3e6f40cbc
<Infinisil> even with `sudo echo hi`, how has this anything to do with samba?
<clever> i think that module is to let you use a samba password via pam
<Infinisil> Ohh
<Infinisil> I enabled password sync, I'll turn that off for now then
<Infinisil> Yup that was it, thanks!
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<Infinisil> When I was using macOS I was really annoyed at the constant stream of error messages that appeared in the logs
<Infinisil> Not having any of that in linux
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<copumpkin> file issues please!
<copumpkin> we have limited people working on this stuff on darwin but we read issues
<Infinisil> copumpkin: The constant error stream had nothing to do with nix
<Infinisil> Or do you mean filing issues in general?
<copumpkin> well, the build instructions (which presumably lead to errors on macOS) are still nixpkgs's responsibility
<copumpkin> in many cases clang 4 is much stricter and warning-happy than gcc
<copumpkin> but we can still suppress things that are nonsense
<copumpkin> anyway yeah, issues in general are good :)
<copumpkin> with any luck we'll pick up more darwin contributors and they'll want stuff to do :D
<Infinisil> No I really mean it has nothing to do with nix, back when I was using macOS I had so many warnings and errors in the system console, that's what annoyed me, haven't even used nix at that time
<copumpkin> oh I see what you mean
<copumpkin> yeah, there's a ton of junk in there
<Infinisil> If I would still enjoy using macOS I would totally want to help make nix better there
<disasm> Infinisil: ditto... I haven't rebooted back into osx in over a month.
<copumpkin> boo, we need to make linux less appealing :P
<copumpkin> (tbc I still use it on all my servers, obviously)
<Infinisil> I have just recently, I'll have to move over the rest of the data before I can nuke osx from the main disk and give linux the full 480GB
<disasm> I probably will next week though to test out this install script gchristensen is working on :)
<Infinisil> I have just installed a fresh OSX on an external disk, I could test it there as well
<disasm> that's a good point, I do have a macbook air in the laptop I originally used for testing the nixos waters before doing it on my main laptop. I could reinstall osx there for nix darwin testing.
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] adisbladis opened pull request #27372: Node security releases (master...node_security_release) https://git.io/vQQNk
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<copumpkin> you can also shove it in a VM
<copumpkin> it's not against their license if it's on Apple hardware
<disasm> in the laptop, lol, meant in the office.
<Infinisil> Oh my god, installing macos on this external drive has been so fucking painful, it took me about 8 hours
<copumpkin> VM is pretty pleasant :)
<disasm> copumpkin: what hypervisor you use? I tried virtualbox and it was just painful, but maybe I need to give qemu a shot.
<copumpkin> VMWare Fusion but I use macOS host. But I've also installed it under qemu on linux
<copumpkin> VMWare supports it pretty nicely, at least on a macOS host
<adisbladis[m]> Hey, if anyone with access is around: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/27372
<disasm> yeah, I have parallels in the other partition, but that doesn't help me in linux :)
<adisbladis[m]> Multiple vulnerable nodejs versions
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] copumpkin pushed 4 new commits to master: https://git.io/vQQN3
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master f33f7dc adisbladis: nodejs: 4.8.1 -> 4.8.4
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master fffe1ef adisbladis: nodejs: 6.9.5 -> 6.11.1
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master ea4e03d adisbladis: nodejs: 7.10.0 -> 7.10.1
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<disasm> looks good to me adisbladis[m]
<copumpkin> adisbladis: thanks!
<disasm> oh, already merged :)
<disasm> copumpkin++
<copumpkin> the more eyeballs the happier I feel about merging it blindly :P
<disasm> I didn't test the sha's but I'm assuming their correct :)
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<copumpkin> that makes two of us :D
<Infinisil> Oh regarding node
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<Infinisil> I wanted to add a package once, but it didn't work
<copumpkin> oh yeah, node is a bit unfortunate
<copumpkin> it has two different package systems in nixpkgs
<disasm> yeah, npm2nix and node2nix, right?
<copumpkin> needs some love
<copumpkin> yeah I think so
<copumpkin> and they're in different places without much documentation as to when you should use one or the other
<Infinisil> It's the fast-cli package (like fast.com but for cli), it has the phantomjs-*prebuild* dependency, which errors
<adisbladis[m]> copumpkin: That was fast :) Thanks
<copumpkin> thank you!
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<Infinisil> WARNING: cannot pinpoint dependency: phantomjs-prebuilt
<Infinisil> And since my node/js knowledge is about 0/10, that's how far I can get
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<Infinisil> Should I open an issue/PR for that?
<copumpkin> yeah probably :)
<disasm> Infinisil: I would, and just mention WIP. Someone like me might try cloning it down and getting it working :)
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<Infinisil> And why the hell is this ./generate.sh script taking a lifetime
<Infinisil> Damn node and its hundred thousands of packages for every single thing
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<copumpkin> wanna add two numbers? there's a library for that
<Infinisil> What was that 10 line package named again that everyone used but then the world ended as it disappeared or something? Right aling something
<copumpkin> Infinisil: left pad iirc
<Infinisil> copumpkin: Exactly
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<Infinisil> Randomly picking out a package from ./generate.sh's output: https://github.com/sindresorhus/is-binary-path
<Infinisil> Literally 5 lines of source
<Infinisil> It doesn't even look at the file's contents, only extension. What the fuck is the use of this package, if you require a specific extension, then check for that instead
<Infinisil> Sorry I'm going off topic, but sheesh
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<disasm> Infinisil: that's pretty bad, lol :)
<disasm> almost as bad as it's dependency: https://github.com/sindresorhus/binary-extensions
<sphalerite[m]> I certainly wouldn't expect it to look at the contents considering that it has "path" in its name
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<Infinisil> sphalerite[m]: Fair enough
<Infinisil> but still
<disasm> sphalerite[m]: I agree, but I probably would anticipate it checks if a binary is in your path by the name (which it obviously doesn't do)
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<sphalerite[m]> You mean an executable?
<sphalerite[m]> And I think this sort of thing is good.
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<Infinisil> great, apparently I'm building V8 from source..
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<disasm> sphalerite[m]: I mean if I wrote something called is-binary-path, I would expect it to take a string binary and return true/false if that command is in your current path.
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<sphalerite[m]> These tiny 3-line pieces of code whose intentions aren't so obvious are so frequently duplicated
<disasm> I wouldn't expect it to look at the extension and determine if it's a binary or not, lol :)
<Infinisil> disasm: You're thinking too much linux :P
<sphalerite[m]> I agree that filename extensions are generally a terrible idea
<sphalerite[m]> Or rather reliance on them
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] hhm0 opened pull request #27373: hebcal: init at 4.13 (master...hebcal) https://git.io/vQQAQ
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<sphalerite[m]> disasm: but it could be on your path and not be a binary. This is the case for many many programs on nixos!
<Ralith> I am a big fan of not accessing any files you don't already know the format of
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<Infinisil> Ralith: Well as long as it's not executed it's fine by me
<Ralith> bonus points for already knowing the exact contents!
<Infinisil> Stupid me didn't know what `exec` did a few weeks ago, don't run it on random files that are not bash, does no good
<sphalerite> works just fine on anything executable :)
<Infinisil> sphalerite[m]: Hmm... I'm afraid of testing it
<sphalerite> (that is, both "executable bit set" and "can actually be executed on the current machine")
<sphalerite> why?
<Infinisil> Had some weird behaviour, aka window jumbling for a microsecond, then the terminal window got closed
<Infinisil> not sure what I ran it on
<sphalerite> I mean, there's barely ever a reason to use exec in an interactive shell unless you're execing another interactive shell to replace the previous one (arguably a neater way than source ~/.whatevershellrc)
<sphalerite> Window jumbling..?
<Infinisil> can't remember exactly, eh whatever, I'll report when I encounter it again
<sphalerite> well what exec does is replace the current shell with another process
<sphalerite> so yeah, the terminal window will get closed when that other process exits
<Infinisil> sphalerite[m]: Oh that would make sense
<Infinisil> Does anyone by chance know how long it takes to compile V8? I'd like to know if I should wait or just go to bed
<sphalerite> that's why it's used in most wrappers, so that you don't have a shell process hanging around when it's not necessary anymore
<Infinisil> sphalerite[m]: Yeah I just used it recently to avoid a double fork
<sphalerite> Just go to bed. Even if it finishes as soon as you've gone, sleep is good for you ;)
<Infinisil> True
<Infinisil> I'll enjoy the 100% CPU sound while sleeping :P
<Infinisil> oh i think it just finished
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<srhb> I'm puzzled about this failure: https://travis-ci.org/NixOS/nixpkgs/jobs/253390686 -- it doesn't seem to have anything to do with my commit. I'm wondering if it's the same reason as the nox-review fail I had locally, that also didn't relate to my fix (as far as I could see)
<srhb> Should I do anything, or just wait?
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<sphalerite> srhb: I'd go with ignore. People often just ignore travis anyway afaik
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] mnacamura closed pull request #27358: r-pbdZMQ: fix Darwin install (master...r_pbdZMQ_darwin_fix) https://git.io/vQHWT
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<Infinisil> sphalerite[m]: What's causing the problems all the time?
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] mnacamura opened pull request #27374: r-pbdZMQ: fix Darwin install (master...r_pbdZMQ_darwin_fix) https://git.io/vQQp4
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Infinisil opened pull request #27375: fast-cli: init at 1.0.0 (WIP) (master...fast-cli) https://git.io/vQQpu
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<Infinisil> Alright I opened an issue/PR regarding the fast-cli package ^^
<joehh> how do people copy closures to non nixos machines
<Infinisil> joehh: Have a look at `man nix-store`
<Infinisil> Specifically the --query section
<joehh> will do - I'm running into https://github.com/NixOS/nix/issues/1078 but feel there must be a common solution
<sphalerite> joehh: with or without nix?
<joehh> with nix
<joehh> so from nixos machine to machine with nix installed (but debian/ubuntu/centos)
<Infinisil> Ah, nix-store probably isn't what you want, never mind what i said
<sphalerite> oh right
<joehh> I've tried sourcing .profile via NIX_SSHOPTS, but that just gives me an error
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<joehh> unable to conect to hostname; falling back to old closure copying method
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vQQp5
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 245e4a3 Yegor Timoshenko: darkhttpd: update homepage
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master f08f6d1 Jörg Thalheim: Merge pull request #27369 from yegortimoshenko/patch-3...
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<sphalerite> joehh: http://ix.io/yue this patch to nix might help, if you set NIX_REMOTE_NIX_STORE_COMMAND to /home/user/.nix-profile/bin/nix-store
<sphalerite> (not tested though)
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vQQh8
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master c61da1b hhm: add self (hhm) to maintainers
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master c5798c1 hhm: hebcal: init at 4.13...
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<sphalerite> I like nix's source code. It's easy to navigate and extremely sane by C++ standards
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 closed pull request #27373: hebcal: init at 4.13 (master...hebcal) https://git.io/vQQAQ
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] vbgl pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQQhz
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 53a50df Vincent Laporte: ocamlPackages.camomile: fix build for OCaml 4.05
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<joehh> sphalerite: nice - thanks for that - I'll give it a go
<LnL> joehh: adding the nix profile.d line to your bashrc instead of profile should fix that
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<LnL> bash won't load .profile with ssh host -- cmd
<joepie91> today's work is going to be inventorying all my miscellaneous systems and migrating everything to a NixOS host one by one... wish me luck :)
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<avn> joepie91: will you use something like nix-in-place, or just plain reinstall?
<joepie91> avn: NixOps + KVM VPSes (ie. QEMU) that have NixOS proper installed on them, moving services between systems one by one
<joepie91> avn: then the emptied systems will either be thrown out or reinstalled
<joepie91> I was intending to consolidate some VPSes anyway
<joepie91> so this is a fine moment to do so
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<joepie91> avn: some of the 'source systems' are OpenVZ VPSes so that's going to be a fun exercise to get to work
<joepie91> I may use nixos-infect for some KVM VPSes where I can't provide custom ISOs and the provider won't add NixOS on request
<joepie91> so yeah, it's all going to be some degree of experimentation
<joepie91> :P
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vQQjB
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 85070e1 Silvan Mosberger: fast-cli: init at 1.0.0
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master ab87dc5 Jörg Thalheim: fast-cli: add reference to all-packages.nix...
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<nix-gsc-io`bot> Channel nixos-unstable advanced to https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/commit/1e1472ed93 (from 19 hours ago, history: https://channels.nix.gsc.io/nixos-unstable)
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 closed pull request #27375: fast-cli: init at 1.0.0 (WIP) (master...fast-cli) https://git.io/vQQpu
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<joehh> LnL: I still an error - this time bash: nix-store: command not found
<joehh> I think I'll go down the route of setting up a hydra and a channel
<LnL> does ssh host -- 'echo $PATH' include the nix path?
<joehh> no
<LnL> and you're not using another shell
<joehh> I don't think so - I would expect bash
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] matthewbauer opened pull request #27376: duti: init at 1.5.4pre (master...duti) https://git.io/vQ7eo
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<sphalerite[m]> joehh: even when you've set the NIX_REMOTE_NIX_STORE_COMMAND env variable?
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] kirillrdy opened pull request #27377: jruby: 9.1.5.0 -> 9.1.12.0 (master...master) https://git.io/vQ7Tl
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<bachp> How can it be that nixos-unstable is more recent then nixos-unstable-small?
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 closed pull request #27377: jruby: 9.1.5.0 -> 9.1.12.0 (master...master) https://git.io/vQ7Tl
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 closed pull request #27364: slurm: add alias attribute for backward compatibility (master...slurm2) https://git.io/vQQav
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 closed pull request #27363: tarsum: Fix source path in docker.src (master...fix-tarsum) https://git.io/vQQCT
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQ7kD
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master fc44b57 Jörg Thalheim: mfcl2700dnlpr: remove meta.version
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] 7c6f434c pushed 5 new commits to master: https://git.io/vQ7kp
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 800139b shak-mar: i2p: Add i686-linux platform
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master c66d81b shak-mar: i2p: 0.9.28 -> 0.9.30
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master eb8e289 shak-mar: i2p: Build java service wrapper from source...
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vQ7IO
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master c2a3761 Johannes Frankenau: nnn: init at 1.2
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 00ee209 Jörg Thalheim: Merge pull request #27097 from jfrankenau/init-nnn...
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vQ7IX
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 905fff7 Daniel Brockman: hsevm: init at 0.3.2
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master f93050e Jörg Thalheim: Merge pull request #27156 from dbrock/hsevm...
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<ertes-w> now that the wiki is history, how do i fix gnome programs again?
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<ertes-w> in particular how do i fix gconf?
<slack1256> depends on the problem
<slack1256> strace + exporting the correct XDG_DESKTOP did wonders for me
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<joepie91> ertes-w: there's a new unofficial wiki at https://github.com/nixos-users/wiki/wiki btw
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<ertes-w> slack1256: it doesn't actually save any configuration, and it reports problems about missing *.service files or something like that
<ertes-w> there was a wiki entry on how to fix that, which had something to do with dbus, i think
<ertes-w> i have to wonder what the rationale is behind using something like gconf
<srhb> ertes-w: "The Windows registry is so cool, let's emulate this!" ?
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<ertes-w> srhb: yeah, probably
<srhb> Or perhaps I'm just jaded. :-P
<ertes-w> but even then sqlite would work much better than inventing an über-complicated custom solution
<ertes-w> but that's gnome for you
<ertes-w> wow, my day just started… there is a whole work day of cynicism and sarcasm ahead, but at least it's friday =)
<ixxie> bennofs[m]: are you in?
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<srhb> ertes-w: My sentiment exactly. Good luck. ;-)
<ertes-w> you too =)
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<joepie91> hm
<joepie91> sec
<joepie91> I have a gist about this I'm pretty sure
<joepie91> I do, sort of
<joepie91> hrm
<ertes-w> joepie91: thanks!
<joepie91> updating my gist...
<joepie91> fixed
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] wizzup opened pull request #27378: django-extensions : init at 1.8.1 (master...add-python-django-extensions) https://git.io/vQ7qh
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<ixxie> say I want to define dotfiles for my user account in my configuration.nix, so that they are subsequently placed in my home directory; is there a nice way to do this?
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<adisbladis[m]> ixxie: I use this thing https://github.com/rycee/home-manager
<adisbladis[m]> It's a bit more ambitious than just dotfiles :)
<tilpner> ixxie - If you put that into the imports list in your configuration.nix, you can then write something like https://gist.github.com/fb10a052ee5a1ddac77ab33ec5d32ec1
<tilpner> (It works fine here, but please don't blame if it eats your dotfiles)
<tilpner> *blame me
<tilpner> ixxie - Instead of those /cfg paths, you could use writeText to define the content inline
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<ixxie> tilpner: thanks, thats perfect :) just out of curiousity - the way you use this is have your dotfiles in cfg folder with your nixos configuration and have it build them into home?
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<tilpner> ixxie - Exactly. All my configuration is gathered in /cfg, and /home contains only symlinks to dotfiles, not the actual files
<ixxie> adisbladis[m]: I recall this home manager thing, but it seems like overkill for this
<ixxie> I also am a bit confused by it and it would take me a while to figure it out xD
<tilpner> There's a slight variation to this. You can remove the quote from the paths, and nix will copy the files into the nix store
<adisbladis[m]> ixxie: I agree it might be :) I just thought it was worth considering at least
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<tilpner> That would mean any changes to your dotfiles are only activated on nixos-rebuild
<ixxie> adisbladis[m]: yeah, it definitely is
<ixxie> adisbladis[m]: okay, that is indeed no rocket science xD
<ixxie> adisbladis[m]: it also adds syntactic sugar and does (I guess) what tilpner does as well
<ixxie> adisbladis[m]: what does it mean to have a program installed to home?
<adisbladis[m]> ixxie: It's just a declarative way to install things into your user profile
<roberth> is there a recommended way to set NIX_PATH to be user-specific on NixOS?
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<srhb> Is the [m] bit of usernames some external irc bridge or what does it signify?
<adisbladis[m]> Yes, bridging from Matrix
<srhb> adisbladis[m]: Ah, thanks :)
<Gravious> what is matrix?
<srhb> Gravious: http://matrix.org/
<ertes-w> roberth: just set it in your shell profile or session startup script
<roberth> Wake up, Gravious...
<adisbladis[m]> A federated communication protocol, think XMPP (Jabber) but more modern
<Gravious> roberth, :)
<ixxie> adisbladis[m]: kinda optimized for nix and not nixos eh?
<roberth> ertes-w, thanks. Doesn't feel very Nixy, but seems reasonable
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<adisbladis[m]> ixxie: No? Currently nixos does not come with a declarative way to install applications in your user profile and manage that
<adisbladis[m]> I like to keep my systemPackages fairly small and install most stuff as my user
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<ixxie> adisbladis[m]: I see.... my user doesn't even have a nixpkgs yet xD
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<ertes-w> roberth: i don't think there are per-user shell profiles in configuration.nix, and even if there were i wouldn't use them, because you would have to be root to change your own NIX_PATH
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<roberth> ertes-w, you could always override it in your shell. I suppose the default NIX_PATH could be more configurable, or even be a bit dynamic, but that might cause some surprises... .profile is the user's entrypoint, so it makes sense to keep it simple and just maintain all user configuration from there using the user's favorite tools (manual editing, or something like what adisbladis incidentally just posted :)
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<ertes-w> i have an s6-based setup there, but currently it's not nixified (even though i do actually have all the necessary nix expressions to do it)
<ertes-w> however, it doesn't include dot-files and is mainly about services… personally i don't see too much value in nixifying dot-files
<gchristensen> domenkozar: ping
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nix] edolstra pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vQ7sV
<NixOS_GitHub> nix/master 0681f8c Eelco Dolstra: Shut up a memory leak warning
<NixOS_GitHub> nix/master 38374a9 Eelco Dolstra: Tarball job: Include libseccomp on Linux only
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nix] edolstra closed pull request #1459: Build tarball per system (master...darwin-tarball) https://git.io/vQy9M
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<domenkozar> gchristensen: pong
<roberth> ertes-w, I didn't hear of s6 before. What are you using it for?
<gchristensen> domenkozar: can you check out my comments / branch here? https://github.com/NixOS/nix/pull/1453#issuecomment-315230007
<roberth> ertes-w, I didn't see much value in nixifying dot files, but have to do some remote development now, so it seems a bit more compelling. I guess I need to bit the bullet.
<gchristensen> niksnut: we found some unanticipated breakage in how the darwin installer works. I'm hoping to get domenkozar's feedback on my fixes before merging, but I think we'll want to make another nix release soon, to fix people's automation :(
<adisbladis[m]> roberth: I think it's nice in case I get a new laptop or the disk breaks down
<niksnut> gchristensen: ok
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<gchristensen> domenkozar: we can rename that variable too ... :)
<domenkozar> gchristensen: reviewing
<gchristensen> domenkozar: note at the end I have a test case where I starve the TTY of input, and another test case where it ensures things in /nix/store are allowed to exist before installing
<domenkozar> gchristensen: this will still trigger lots of textt (actually more than before) when not asking questions right?
<domenkozar> it feels a bit scary to see so much text and it's polluting the CI logs
<domenkozar> could we also then have a quiet mode?
<gchristensen> no it produces less test
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<gchristensen> hmm
<gchristensen> let me paste examples
<gchristensen> a full quiet mode will be trickier
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<domenkozar> not a full quiet mode, but just something as it was before, max 20 lines
<domenkozar> the issue is _really_ stupid but things like travis make my 4 core machiens go crazy if there's a long log in the build
<domenkozar> I know this is the last thing anyone wants to deal with, but I have to :(
<gchristensen> ouch
<gchristensen> I get it now :)
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] domenkozar pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQ7GS
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 0eb4f6f Domen Kožar: Merge commit 'a889454869e4f7d5ba6067ebcc0ba7fcd26e4417'...
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<domenkozar> huh
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<domenkozar> something is fishy with this staging merge
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<domenkozar> ah, all good
<ertes-w> roberth: this is one desktop-relevant use case: http://ertes.eu/tutorial/s6-xsession.html
<domenkozar> is it just me or does butterflya appear to be 0xABAB
<ertes-w> roberth: just put your dot-files into a repo
<ertes-w> roberth: the model of darcs works particularly well for dot-files, or use git with cherry-picking
<gchristensen> yes
<domenkozar> we'll soon see if posts start to appear daily
<gchristensen> _exact_ same contribution pattern as 0xabab domenkozar https://github.com/butterflya
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<domenkozar> oh well I'll comment
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<clever> domenkozar: my core2duo laptop took over 5 minutes just to load an appveyor log a week or 2 ago
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<clever> oh, and the travis cli tools can probably help to bypass a lot of the browser being crap problems
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<domenkozar> yeah need to look into that
<clever> Usage: travis logs [NUMBER] [OPTIONS]
<clever> it also accepts a branch name, and can detect the repo from the current dir
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<gchristensen> domenkozar: can you show me where we're caching /nix/store in travis?
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<domenkozar> we're not by default
<domenkozar> but if you cache anything on travis
<domenkozar> you need to also cache /nix/store
<domenkozar> otherwise dynamic libraries won't exist for the cached artifacts
<gchristensen> does anybody do that?
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<clever> binaries made by stack in ~/.stack/ can refer to the ld.so in the store
<clever> and when nix updates glibc, the binaries in the cache become invalid
<gchristensen> LnL is pretty sure they get deleted by nix at some poiont
<clever> and nix doesnt manage ~/.stack/, so it never cleans up the broken ELF's
<gchristensen> domenkozar: my branch reduces the text output by 1/4 already, btw, it doesn't output more than before :)
<domenkozar> gchristensen: can you paste the output somewhere? :)
<LnL> if you just cache the store and don't register the existing paths nix will remove them because they are invalid
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<clever> LnL: but if you cache everything, including db.sqlite, it may get confused when travis tries to install nix again
<clever> and it may stop updating things like the channel or nix version
<domenkozar> LnL: the removing will only happen on gc call, no?
<LnL> nope
<clever> i believe it will also refuse to use invalid paths, and remove them if they are in the way of a future build
<clever> and because it refuses to use it, things like ~/.nix-profile/ wont refer to it
<domenkozar> but it will leave the store paths alone if they are not being rebuilt
<gchristensen> domenkozar: https://gist.github.com/grahamc/7c33e8183b7b552dce8ccb7ce4600afd I can easily reduce it by another 100 lines, maybe easier to go further but I'll have to take a look
<gchristensen> domenkozar: there are 2 files there
<clever> domenkozar: and i have found uses for that, a failed build leaves the $out intact, and then i can investigate logs it left there
<clever> domenkozar: the above also helps greatly in fixing reference cycles in multiple output derivations
<clever> nix-shell also wont delete the outputs, so you can shell into the failing derivation, and then grep for $out in $lib
<domenkozar> nice
<domenkozar> gchristensen: nice :)
<domenkozar> lgtm
<gchristensen> domenkozar: as-is? or the further-reduced version?
<clever> i also saw a trick in the github issues many months ago, where you first nix-build the kernel, then nix-shell into the kernel, so you can use its deps and $out to build modules
<domenkozar> the quiet file
<gchristensen> cool, I _can_ add another env var to reduce the output further, but I'm running out of time this AM to test it.
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<LnL> domenkozar: I think you need do do something similar to hydra's store_url = file:///tmp/nix-cache and cache that
<gchristensen> domenkozar: I can PR what I have, now, if you think it is ready
<clever> LnL: oh, and then nix-push what you want to save into that, so travis can tar it back up
<domenkozar> gchristensen: if you have implemented the quiet file, then I think it's good enough (with 200 lines)
<gchristensen> yep already in that branch you reviewed :)
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<gchristensen> domenkozar: is the environment variable name too silly?
<domenkozar> yes :D
<domenkozar> it should be self-descriptive
<gchristensen> :)
<gchristensen> ALLOW_USER_TO_EXPERIENCE_PROBLEMS?
<domenkozar> ALLOW_PREEXISTING_INSTALLATION
<LnL> clever: yes, I think 1.12 can do that automatically with NIX_REMOTE=local?root=/tmp/nix-cache
<clever> LnL: oh, interesting, not sure what that will do exactly, will need to play with it
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<clever> it sounds like all store actions will go to that dir, and not /nix/store/
<LnL> or maybe it's local?real=/tmp/nix-cache
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] wizzup opened pull request #27379: [WIP] cleanup pkgs/top-level/python-packages.nix (master...fix-pythonPackages) https://git.io/vQ7nj
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<clever> i believe the 1st example treats a store as a cache, and the 2nd example lets you act on a store that isnt at /nix/store yet (chroot'ing for you)
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nix] grahamc opened pull request #1463: Fix stdin errors (1.11-maintenance...fix-stdin-errors) https://git.io/vQ7cq
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<gchristensen> domenkozar, niksnut ^
<gchristensen> note it includes a version bump commit
<clever> [nix-shell:~]$ NIX_REMOTE='local?state=/tmp/nix-cache/&real=/tmp/nix-cache' nix-store -r /nix/store/4qjj1bj8ll69sgwfbdmnmb8p0yl11wy0-hello-2.10
<clever> LnL: yeah, this sets up a store that isnt mounted at the right spot yet, and the paths in the above cmd are wrong
<gchristensen> domenkozar, niksnut doing some final automatic testing but it should be good to go. I'll ping when the tests finish.
<clever> and you can then either copy it to /nix/store, or use option substituters to implement a copy-closure thing
<domenkozar> kk
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<LnL> clever: yeah, I thought there was something that would use the local store to build but write the output in a different path
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<clever> LnL: i think --option substituters could be used to treat /nix/store as a binary cache, when doing a build that targets /tmp/nix-cache/nix/store/
<LnL> yes something like that
<LnL> but I have not played with the local options yes do I might be wrong
<clever> same, i have some notes from questions i asked before, but havent done much
* LnL wants a 1.12 release :)
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<gchristensen> niksnut, domenkozar: it works -- ready for 1.11.13
<chominist[m]> My /etc/X11/xkb is empty
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<chominist[m]> Any clue on what is missing?
<domenkozar> let's merge and test it :)
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<gchristensen> domenkozar: travis passed
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<joepie91> gchristensen: your periodic security issue notification: https://twitter.com/_fel1x/status/885801374361034752
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<joepie91> I find it somewhat incredible that they've managed to screw up zips with images in them
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<gchristensen> in their comic book handler no less
<joepie91> yes
<joepie91> comic book files are literally zips with images
<joepie91> lol
<joepie91> it's just... wow
<joepie91> (or well, cbz = zip, cbr = rar, etc.)
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<joepie91> cbt in this case, so tar
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 closed pull request #27343: nova-filters: bug fix and add maintainer (master...nova) https://git.io/vQS5q
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] rbvermaa pushed 1 new commit to release-17.03: https://git.io/vQ7CA
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/release-17.03 3597b5f Rob Vermaas: nlopt: build without octave support, as it is broken with octave 4.x+
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<domenkozar> gchristensen: once niksnut merges this, I'll make a test installer and a travis-ci test with it
<gchristensen> what do you mean?
<domenkozar> a copy of nixos.org/nix/install with 1.12.13 binaries
<domenkozar> ran across different platforms on travis-ci
<gchristensen> oh
<globin> niksnut: could you check why the release-17.03 channel is not updating?
<domenkozar> the part that we didn't test yesterday
<gchristensen> domenkozar: so separate from what I already have: https://travis-ci.org/grahamc/nix
<domenkozar> globin: it's being addressed
<domenkozar> globin: actually fix was pushed yesterday
<domenkozar> for llvm man page
<globin> domenkozar: was that for 17.03, too?
<domenkozar> hm
<domenkozar> maybe? :)
<domenkozar> gchristensen: ye
<gchristensen> cool
<domenkozar> sorry for vauge answers, doing 12 threads at the same time
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<joepie91> oh wow, I had no idea that script existed
<joepie91> I was looking for that!
<globin> domenkozar: can't find the commit on 17.03 and it doesn't have the outputs ++ man in the code either, that was fixed
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<symphorien> ah, what if all those glod nuggets were documented :þ
<joepie91> :)
<gchristensen> symphorien: there'd be nothing left for the maintainers!
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<symphorien> so no nix fu command to launch the script directly ?
<LnL> domenkozar: globin: don't think the original change that was ported to 17.03
<globin> LnL: ack
<domenkozar> 17.03 updated yesterday
<domenkozar> using latest tested job passing at http://hydra.nixos.org/build/56231347
<hyper_ch> domenkozar: how comes nixos-unstalbe channel hasn't updated for 10 days?
<domenkozar> that one is being fixed
<domenkozar> or was fixed yesterday
<hyper_ch> it's weird, becuase http://hydra.nixos.org/job/nixos/trunk-combined/tested#tabs-constituents shows that latest builds were successfull since 2 days
<domenkozar> yes, there was a bug preventing channel bump that was fixed yesterday
<globin> domenkozar: oh I misread the howoldis page /o\
<domenkozar> that makes more sense :)
<hyper_ch> domenkozar: thx
<chominist[m]> NixOS fails to find keyboard definitions when running localectl
<chominist[m]> It seems that I can't find /etc/X11/xkb/ folder, though parent exists
<chominist[m]> I checked earlier configs, and they didn't have it either
<chominist[m]> Is this default behavior, or am I missing something?
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<clever> -xkbdir /nix/store/bc94k6vdap0sx1p2r43h96cid4ghxnkg-xkeyboard-config-2.20/etc/X11/xkb
<clever> chominist[m]: those files are in the store, the display-manager service sets it up for Xorg automatically
<chominist[m]> Ahh
<chominist[m]> I don't have a display manager
<clever> thats how nix computes the default path
<clever> so its just the xkb dir in the xkeyboard_config package
<domenkozar> o-ou
<domenkozar> hydra-eval-jobs returned signal 6:
<domenkozar> Too many heap sections: Increase MAXHINCR or MAX_HEAP_SECTS
<gchristensen> I think you just have to re-eval
<domenkozar> I remember we had some metrics for that
<chominist[m]> clever (IRC): thanks
<chominist[m]> I feel dumb and enlightened at the same time
<gchristensen> chominist[m]: that is what keeps me coming back to nixos
<clever> Error loading tab: 0 error
<domenkozar> ET http://hydra.nixos.org/job/nixpkgs/trunk/metrics/metrics-tab net::ERR_BLOCKED_BY_CLIENT
<clever> same
<clever> was going to say its my adblock
<clever> but for you to have the exact same error...
<domenkozar> well we both use ublock apparently
<clever> exactly, turning it off fixed it
<clever> and i just switched to u-block this week, lol
<gchristensen> ubo is great
<domenkozar> it rarely fails like this
<gchristensen> turning off ubo didn't fix that page for me
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<clever> i think metrics is a "bad word"
<clever> ubo thinks hydra is trying to track us
<domenkozar> triggered some bumps
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<domenkozar> for about 20%
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<mpickering> I am adding an override for a package in my shell.nix which patches a library
<mpickering> but it can't find the patch file when running nix-shell
<clever> mpickering: can you gist the shell.nix file?
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<clever> mpickering: unquote the path and it should work
<mpickering> perfect thanks
<chominist[m]> clever (IRC): so how do the stores interact with one another?
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<clever> chominist[m]: when using NIX_REMOTE=local?real= ?
<chominist[m]> I read the manuals, but didn't understand how the stores in nix/store interacts with /
<chominist[m]> (Or mb I missed something)
<gchristensen> you only have one store, at /nix/store
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<chominist[m]> Because I found the xkb there in the xkeyboard_config store, but I wasn't sure why /etc/X11 didn't have a symlink to it
<chominist[m]> *something else besides store
<MoreTea> chominist[m], when possible, we do not store configuration settings in /etc, but somewhere in /nix/store. Typically, we point to that config file in the systemd unit.
<chominist[m]> MoreTea (IRC): then how can you get localectl to find the xkb folder?
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<chominist[m]> And more importantly, how can I do more complex xkb settings (through configuration.nix or otherwise)
<MoreTea> this is the generic case, I admit to have no clue about how exactly locatectl / xkb work in this case.
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<chominist[m]> I have completely misunderstood how stores work
<chominist[m]> Not that the xkb thing is solved, but it's great to undo a blindspot
<gchristensen> oh?
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nix] edolstra pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQ74Q
<NixOS_GitHub> nix/master 112ff78 Eelco Dolstra: nix: Show help when no arguments are given...
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<grburst> hey, if i declare a meta package in ~/.config/nixpkgs/config.nix that includes a package providing a services. is there to declare in the meta package also enable the services services.foo.bar.enable like i do globally in configuration.nix?
<grburst> is there a way to*
<domenkozar> gchristensen: after 3 evals, no success
<gchristensen> :(
<gchristensen> domenkozar: can you link me to your curl-bash post?
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<grburst> another question ^^: could not find where i can lookup nixpkgs functions, e.g. i came across writeTextFile but could not find any documentation about it
<gchristensen> grburst: yeah, that sucks. https://search.nix.gsc.io/?q=writeTextFile %3D
<gchristensen> grburst: yeah, that sucks. https://search.nix.gsc.io/?q=writeTextFile%20%3D
<grburst> are these function somewhere documented?
<joepie91> does anybody happen to have any previously undocumented notes on how to run NixOS in an OpenVZ guest (without access to the host, ie. an OpenVZ VPS from a provider)? my next project is to figure that out, and any upfront notes would be helpful :)
<joepie91> cc clever in particular since you tend to have notes about weird stuff :P
<srhb> I'm working on upversioning kubernetes services to 1.7. It's pretty complex, and I'm not sure I can get all the tests to work on my own. Is it okay to (eventually, probably after the weekend) create a PR with a note not to merge this but just take it up for further discussion? Or should I keep it as an issue?
<gchristensen> srhb: yeah, put "WIP" in the title
<srhb> gchristensen: Thank you.
<srhb> I see there's some prior work already by LnL
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<grburst> gchristensen okay thanks - but a documentation / list of available nixpkgs options and functions and so forth are not available (as far as you know)?
<MoreTea> @grburst, they're not documented properly.
<gchristensen> grburst: either incomplete or doesn't exist, and is a regularly talked about problem :(
<MoreTea> I had a PR to fix this somewhere, by abusing __functor
<gchristensen> omg
<MoreTea> but not sure what the performance overhead of that would be.
<MoreTea> gchristensen, you helped me with that ;)
<gchristensen> link?
<gchristensen> I don't remember this at all :)
<LnL> srhb: there's actually another pr that did a bunch more work
<MoreTea> gchristensen, and branch with implementation: https://github.com/moretea/nixpkgs/tree/document_functions
<srhb> LnL: I just saw, thanks. :)
<MoreTea> and how adding documentation would look like: https://github.com/moretea/nixpkgs/blob/document_functions/lib/strings.nix#L14
<gchristensen> MoreTea: hmm nope I didn't help with this
<MoreTea> gchristensen, my bad then.
<gchristensen> but now I know about functor :P
<LnL> srhb: however those changes use a bunch of precompiled upstream stuff instead of building from source like kube-dns
<MoreTea> Hm. I should invest some time in this still. https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/23505
<srhb> LnL: I'm not sure if I have an opinion on that. I think the current version is slightly easier to grasp, even though I'm struggling a bit.
<srhb> (I can run the trivial test if I disable auth, but...)
<grburst> okay thanks for the reply :-)
<domenkozar> niksnut: can we block butterflya (I also suspect he is 0xABAB, but anyway): https://github.com/NixOS/nix/pull/619#issuecomment-315343636
<gchristensen> also report for abuse, domenkozar
<gchristensen> yeah that is 0xabab...
<MoreTea> that guy is quite annoying :(
<LnL> oh boy
<ikwildrpepper> domenkozar: just my opinion here wrt that specific issue. except for some strong opinion and a bit annoying way of expressing him/herself, I do not think the comments are really abusive
<ikwildrpepper> (the initial comment, I meant)
<gchristensen> the problem is it is the exact same person
<ikwildrpepper> gchristensen: could be
<ikwildrpepper> github should be able to check that, I imagine?
<MoreTea> "Are you afraid of him?" after a warning is not a very nice thing to say.
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] ttuegel opened pull request #27382: dropbox: 29.4.20 -> 30.4.22 (master...update/dropbox) https://git.io/vQ70i
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<MoreTea> Which approach would you all prefer, to document nixpkgs's lib functions (and your own helper functions)
<domenkozar> ikwildrpepper: there are many insults in the post
<domenkozar> ou would get a lot more respect if you presented facts and arguments instead of trying to import Eastern-European practices to a mostly Western online society.
<gchristensen> I'm not interested in keeping anyone around who sees a public warning and thinks "I know, I'll go on the offensive"
<domenkozar> > Please tell me how I can insert in your brain that you are *wrong, wrong, wrong in any other way than presenting an argument
<MoreTea> 2. Solve it with __functor in nixpkgs https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/23505
<ikwildrpepper> domenkozar: yeah, I was talking about the first comment, should have been clearer about that
<gchristensen> the biggest complaint I have about the first message "Why wasn't this merged on the very same day the PR was opened?" is "because we're volunteers"
<gchristensen> among other things :)
<ikwildrpepper> gchristensen: yeah, agree that would have been a good response to the question
<ikwildrpepper> or any other answer that would explain it
<gchristensen> fair
<domenkozar> you assume it would help to go down that path arguing
<domenkozar> I disagree
<gchristensen> and we should have done that, but we were perhaps prematurely assuming the user was 0xabab, and we were right
<gchristensen> ...imo :)
<ikwildrpepper> I do think that we should also apply restraint in responses that could be inflamatory. e.g. I don't really see insults in the initial comment that user made
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<gchristensen> ikwildrpepper++
<gchristensen> I agree
<ikwildrpepper> the later post obviously is abusive
<ikwildrpepper> but you could argue that that might be triggered by domen's comment. still not a good reason to post such an abusive comment in reply.
<domenkozar> there were implicit insults in the first comment
<domenkozar> carefully read
<domenkozar> > It appears that everyone except one is in favor of this. The obvious solution seems to be that this person puts a big ifdef block in the code he is running on his machine and let's the rest of the world enjoy their 256GB RAM servers with TBs of storage, or their 8GB RAM phones.
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] ttuegel opened pull request #27383: dropbox: 28.4.14 -> 30.4.22 (release-17.03...update/stable/dropbox) https://git.io/vQ7El
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<srhb> I think everyone agreed they're there. But not whether they were sufficient.
<ikwildrpepper> domenkozar: just sharing my opinion ;)
<globin> Yes I wouldn't really call it abusive, but it's definitely passive agressive
<ikwildrpepper> domenkozar: I agree though that this is likely that other dude, and the 0x dude was definitely abusive before
<gchristensen> IMO, I don't think domenkozar's comment was wrong, but I think being more restrained in the first reply would have been an improvement, since he was going to reply like that pretty much no matter what you said.
<srhb> And I'm in favour of tossing the personar after just the first anyway. Keeping bad people out of nice communities is a necessity.
<gchristensen> but whatever, what is done is done
<gchristensen> and they showed their colors
* srhb nods
<ikwildrpepper> gchristensen: yeah, I don't think the outcome would have been different, if this is actually 0x....
<gchristensen> I quite like most of their reply here: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/17126#issuecomment-315190218 but am bracing for his reply to ToxicFrog
<Gravious> i sympathise though, it can be really difficult to work on hard on something and see it go unnoticed
<gchristensen> Gravious: this person doesn't actually produce anything but angry issue comments
<gchristensen> ^ slight hyperbole
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<gchristensen> ^ but mostly true
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<nh2> domenkozar: I would not block anybody on github, it's generally counterproductive. Thumbsdown emoji and ignoring is typically better
<ToxicFrog> It says something about how long this has been an issue that I had already referenced the corresponding bugs in nixos-homepage and then completely forgot about them
<gchristensen> I strongly disagree
<ToxicFrog> I should just figure out how to hack on the website and fix it already
<ToxicFrog> Even if those fixes never get merged I can at least run it locally
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<nh2> gchristensen: with whom, with me?
<gchristensen> yes
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<domenkozar> nh2: this guy is a big pain, it's not worth the effort
<Gravious> gchristensen, i say this because i just walked into another channel and vented a bit about closing a pr that was a lot of work and had been open for 3 months without a single comment
<ToxicFrog> ...apparently at some point I wrote a fix for this and then never created a PR for it
<ToxicFrog> wow
<gchristensen> Gravious: yeah that sucks
<ToxicFrog> I must have gotten interrupted by toddler or something
<domenkozar> but we can wait until things escalate
<domenkozar> I'd rather ban him before we lose another contributor
<Gravious> gchristensen, a little, but when you talk to people you just realise how incredibly busy they are, it's just hard to appreciate that from silence
<gchristensen> ^
<domenkozar> even if he *sometimes* is constructive
<domenkozar> what counts is people, not fixing/commenting
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<gchristensen> Gravious: yeah I know, I definitely understand the author's frustration. the person who we're discussion regarding that PR isn't the author though, just a perpetually unhappy issue troll
<niksnut> domenkozar: I think he's 0xABAB too
<domenkozar> anyway we can wait if you'd like
<domenkozar> as long as your eyes are open :)
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<nh2> domenkozar gchristensen: communities that block negative voices are unhealthy; healthy communities can handle such people. In the Haskell community we also recently had a case where some people blocked other voices on github and it reflected very badly on them
<domenkozar> nh2: that's a different case, they are far more complicated in terms of politics
<domenkozar> we don't even want to go there
<gchristensen> nh2: I guess you're welcome to manage your communities that way, but I'm not interested in being part of a community where it is okay for people to send personal attacks and threats to other contributors over github issues and email.
<domenkozar> in Haskell there are two groups disagreeing what should be banned based on political views
<domenkozar> I hope we never get to that point
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] bjornfor opened pull request #27384: vim_configurable: add ".../after" plugin dirs to runtimepath (master...vim-plugin-after) https://git.io/vQ7ud
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<__Sander__> we can also just ignore what he says
<domenkozar> it's not that simple, he is driving people away
<shlevy> +1 for blocking/banning
<domenkozar> ignoring is not enough
<domenkozar> it works for some trolls, but not all
<avn> Also +1 for this concrete case.
<nh2> gchristensen: wait, are the personal attacks and threats somewhere else? I'm looking at https://github.com/NixOS/nix/pull/619
<__Sander__> this guy is not secretely terry a. davis or something? :D
<shlevy> Successful communities (in person or online), even ones generally in favor of welcoming outsiders, absolutely have mechanisms for turning away toxic elements. A private community isn't the same thing as a government and different standards should apply.
<gchristensen> nh2: there are a few on github, and a few in my inbox
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<domenkozar> nh2: if he is the same user as was banned a few days ago (which we don't have proofs yet): https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/27258#issuecomment-314022707
<domenkozar> but style of comments and timing aligns, not that correlation is causation though.
<domenkozar> not implying*
<gchristensen> I am :P
<joepie91> nh2: there is a point where you need to consider what you prioritize more: 1) active contributors not burning out or 2) giving everybody a chance
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<joepie91> while I dislike banning in general, there are some cases where somebody just doesn't leave any other option
<joepie91> other than letting them drag down the community by being unnecessarily hostile
<nh2> domenkozar gchristensen joepie91: this comment, too, I would recommend to handle by ignoring. Somebody whines on the Internet, so what? IMO that's not a good enough reason to implement censorship. Calrama's comment at https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/27258#issuecomment-313974449 shows that other nix contributors can identify idiots and not get discouraged by them.
<gchristensen> nh2: okay
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<domenkozar> I'm also very much for giving people a chance and I do belive they change, but if this guy created another user to continue his behavior, we're just not there
<joepie91> nh2: 'ignoring' is a misnomer. these kind of comments cannot be ignored, they can only be not-responded-to; but that does not mean that it does not affect the mental state of contributors.
<joepie91> nh2: and getting discouraged by hostile behaviour is a long-term process; it's not something you can pin down on any one particular comment.
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<domenkozar> nh2: I can show you you're wrong
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<domenkozar> I think each case is different and it's hard to apply ideologies
<gchristensen> domenkozar++
<joepie91> nh2: so yes, the first attempt or even attempts (plural) should be to communicate with a problematic user and try to get them to change their behaviour towards something more constructive. but if somebody is actively hostile towards that, and is producing nothing but noise, then at some point the chances run out.
<gchristensen> this is a great talk about how open source that is relevant to this conversation, and I recommend people watch it :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlagRkD4e8s
<domenkozar> nh2: I do agree that we shouldn't randomly ban people though, I think so far in all the history of NixOS it was 2 users
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 closed pull request #27160: make-autostartitem: Use the right path for storing the desktop files (master...makeautostartitem_fix) https://git.io/vQVt8
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<nh2> joepie91: Calrama's mental state seems totally fine; he has identified whether he should care about that user's comment or not
<joepie91> nh2: you're missing my point. you're still trying to infer consequences from a single comment, about a single person.
<joepie91> nh2: whether generally disruptive and hostile people are kept around, is a key factor in whether contributors will consider the community a welcoming environment to contribute to. if there are enough incidents where somebody is hostile without impunity - and that can be hostility towards *anybody* on public display - then people will stop contributing, because the cost of a contribution is too high to them.
<joepie91> er
<joepie91> with impunity *
<joepie91> this is not something you can infer from a single post, or a single person's response, or any one single bit of data. but the moment somebody starts riling other people up with little to no constructive value, that's the first warning sign that there's a situation you need to deal with. that doesn't mean you need to immediately resort to bans, but you can't just wave it away as "just ignore it" either
<joepie91> lots of small hostilities will eventually create an overall hostile environment, and people will leave it (often without telling you).
<gchristensen> we gave him a whole year before we banned him
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<nh2> domenkozar: I agree this is problematic but I still think that the better approach is to publicly show that most people disagree with "0xABAB"'s opinion on the matter, not to take their ability to state their opinion away. And instead tell the contributor to ignore that user and continue their good work.
<joepie91> nh2: so really, the metric you want to use is "was this person acting in good faith?" -- even people with good intentions will occasionally make hostile remarks without intending it. but if somebody is clearly showing bad faith and refusing to change their behaviour, then it's time to remove that person from the conversation.
<gchristensen> all I can say is "ok", nh2. I hear your opinion.
<joepie91> nh2: the problem isn't the opinion, though, it's the presentation.
<joepie91> it's unnecessarily hostile.
<nh2> joepie91: if communities banned "unnecessarily hostile" things then censorship would rule the world, especially in those countries currently known for free speech
<nh2> also, looking at that specific post, I see no big problem with somebody coming and say "the quality of this software is shit". The correct answer to that is "OK, we don't care about that or your opinion on it for packaging pursposes"
<joepie91> nh2: no, it would not./
<gchristensen> free speech isn't a right in open source projects. you can say what you want, but a project owner isn't required to let you stay
<joepie91> and I'm really not sure how you're drawing a line from "expecting people not to be unnecessarily hostile" to "censorship".
<domenkozar> nh2: it's hard to say to each new contributor: hey, we're a welcoming community, but ignore these 5 people
<domenkozar> because that's what blocking a person does without instructing people
<joepie91> nh2: btw, emphasis on "unnecessarily".
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<gchristensen> ok I'm going to leave this conversation now, good luck
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<LnL> yeah, was just ignoring him but I've seen some contributes get frustrated by his reviews because they don't know
<joepie91> nh2: in the end, the primary purpose of an open-source project is to maximize the contributions and quality thereof, not to provide a platform for arbitrary speech presented in arbitrary ways. therefore, if those two goals conflict, then prioritizing contributions over arbitrary speech is the correct thing to do.
<joepie91> and if somebody is harassing constructive contributors... yeah, well.
<nh2> gchristensen: sure, I didn't suggest there was a right in anything, and surely the one with moderator perms has the eventual decision power. But what I'm saying is that it's a good thing to have, not a right, and it's healthy for a community to be able to deal with idiots on the Internet.
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<joepie91> nh2: but the reason for existence of an open-source project isn't to give people practice in dealing with idiots on the internet.
<joepie91> forums do a pretty good job of that already.
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<nh2> joepie91: I agree with you on what the purpose is, but I certainly put more trust (and thus willingness to contribute) into communities that can handle nasty people without pulling out the ban hammer.
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<joepie91> nh2: and like I said, a banhammer shouldn't be the first option, and it isn't the first option here. but there comes a point where that is the only option left.
<joachifm> domenkozar: fwiw, it's not a new account, see e.g., https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/23750#discussion_r106816055
<joepie91> and at that point, it's a completely valid measure.
<domenkozar> > What can work is to limit and work to repair the damage that psychopaths do. Like bullies at school, psychopaths do not suffer from depression. It is family, friends, and colleagues who pay the cost. Once you see the process behind the psychopaths' impact craters, you can intervene.
<domenkozar> > Intervention is not simple. To deal with people who have spent their lives charming, manipulating, and bullying others is by default impossible. If you try to warn a group, you will find yourself blamed. If you try to warn individuals, you will find them turning against you. You must move slowly, carefully, and with the right knowledge.
<joepie91> nh2: to be clear, I'm all for targeted criticism, including blunt criticism (hell, I give that out myself plenty often), but that is a completely separate matter from the way that criticism is presented - if it involves unnecessary personal attacks, hostility, etc., then it's completely valid to say "no" to that.
<nh2> joepie91: OK. Also note I'm arguing purely from the standpoint of what I've seen in the two posts linked. If there are more that I don't know about then surely I'm not in the picture and banning might be appropriate. Only thing I'm saying is that what I've seen *so far* seems to be below the threshold of what an OSS community should be able to deal with
<ToxicFrog> nh2: the thing is, some "nasty people" cannot be handled without "pulling out the ban hammer", either because they consider themselves so unassailably in the right that attempts to change their behaviour just result in them doubling down, or because being an asshole is an end in itself for them and they have never been acting in good faith.
<joepie91> nh2: what an OSS community "should be able to deal with" is contributions and bug reports in good faith. for anything beyond that, there's absolutely no obligation to deal with it in any way other than to show somebody the door.
<ToxicFrog> A community that has never banned anyone is either lucky enough never to have encountered these people, or is dominated by them.
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<domenkozar> nh2: we have emails from that users that strongly suggest it's a cause not worth fighting for
<ToxicFrog> In the latter case, because once you get a critical mass of assholes they end up driving out most other contributors.
<domenkozar> that user*
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nix] edolstra closed pull request #1463: Fix stdin errors (1.11-maintenance...fix-stdin-errors) https://git.io/vQ7cq
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<joepie91> (btw, a bug report is a contribution in and of itself, I'm just naming it separately because often people don't perceive it as such and I want to make sure I'm not misunderstood :P)
<nh2> domenkozar: just to be clear, I'm not fighting for that user, I'm already as convinced as you are that the person is an idiot. I'm solely argueing for the approach to deal with that kind of idiocity
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<domenkozar> nh2: ah ok :)
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<mpickering> I am trying to override a package in the haskell package set but it seems the override is not applied somehow when using ghcWithPackages
<mpickering> I see my mistakes, I was using haskellPackages rather than the right package set
<nh2> domenkozar joepie91: Also I do see the problem that new contributors may not be able to easily identify these types of people, and that they *can* be discouraged if they can't do so. Github definitely doesn't make that easy. On the other flame locations on the Internet (e.g. Reddit) you can at least click on a user and quickly get an opinion on what they do and what their usual tone and responses to them are. So that's a point supporting your a
<joepie91> nh2: message got cut off after "supporting your a"
<nh2> approach
<joepie91> right
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<joepie91> even with that kind of feature, though, there will be a chunk of contributors that will be put off by hostile responses and that'll just quietly leave and never return, without ever bothering to look into the history of somebody
<nh2> joepie91: OK but has some reasonable level of nastiness resistance. Otherwise I'd we'd be clicking on spam all day, and get depressed by the angry kids throwing us swear words in online games. I don't think people are _that_ soft
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<joepie91> nh2: don't make the mistake of assuming that your own nastiness-resistance is representative of that of others :)
<joepie91> a good friend of mine is brilliant from a technical perspective, but he completely avoids online social venues (including generally not contributing to open-source projects) because he doesn't want to have to deal with the crap that almost inevitably gets thrown around
<joepie91> these are the people you will never hear of because they never come around to your place in the first place
<joepie91> so your view of how nastiness-resistant people are, is biased by the people who can survive in whatever environment you've created
<ToxicFrog> nh2: ^
<joepie91> that's not to say that we must all be perfectly polite all the time, because sometimes there are just good reasons to eg. be blunt (think on-point criticism), but you shouldn't assume "oh people can deal with the nasty stuff anyway" if it isn't necessary to have that nasty stuff in the first place
<nh2> domenkozar: so yeah, I guess my plea is: if you decide to ban whatever users, please make sure to put a thorough justification somewhere so that it's clear to observing third-parties (who may not have the seen the whole picture yet) what the whole picture is, so that they can themselves consider it well-justified and do not think that the nix community pulls out the ban hammer too easily (stating your earlier mentioned statistics of 2 banned us
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<joepie91> that might be a good idea, in particular to prevent misrepresentation on the part of banned users acting in bad faith with a grudge :P
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<nh2> joepie91: yes
<gchristensen> I'd be okay with their emails to me being published
<joachifm> gchristensen: people are sending you nasty emails? wow ...
<nh2> gchristensen: that's a good idea, I think that sends a strong signal of "it's pointless to try and harrass our community members privately, because we will expose such behaviour publicly and even more people will think you are an idiot then"
<niksnut> hehe: "The only reason nixos.org package search exists, is because they want to spy on you."
<gchristensen> niksnut: where did that get posted?
<joepie91> niksnut: isn't it... totally client-side....?
<niksnut> the conspiracy has been revealed...
<niksnut> joepie91: yes
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<joepie91> I uh, wow
<copumpkin> uh
<copumpkin> niksnut: he's also the one accusing you of holding back large files in the nix store btw :P
<copumpkin> why do you hate nix?
<niksnut> that's also part of the conspiracy
<niksnut> we can't empower people by allowing large files
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<copumpkin> true
<joepie91> copumpkin: I feel like you missed out on a 'cabal' pun there
<nh2> you do have to give this person that they do make an effort to write things up, so it doesn't appear that they are here _just_ to troll
<copumpkin> lol, I guess
<copumpkin> yeah, it's weird
<copumpkin> I feel like we've been getting a few well intentioned but kind of unpleasant folks on github recently
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<joepie91> odd person overall. their github account appears to exist solely for nixos, it's not a username used anywhere else, etc.
<copumpkin> the other one got banned a few days ago
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<srhb> Some people actually can't help seeing conspiracies. Best to move on and limit their impact, if need be.
<joepie91> copumpkin: oh, was it certain that it was the same person?
<nh2> copumpkin: just wait until Torvalds starts using nix ;)
<ibrahims> hi, `nix-channel --update` gives 'Problem with the SSL CA cert'. how can i understand what the problem is?
<copumpkin> joepie91: not certain, no. Who knows!
<__Sander__> I really have the feeling this person is Terry A. Davis in real life :D
<__Sander__> or at least
<gchristensen> __Sander__: :o
<__Sander__> he clearly has a number of similar traits :D
<__Sander__> the only thing he has not done so far is using really bad words
<__Sander__> or referring to the CIA :D
<dtz> Binary cache queries seem to be a better vector for spying, lol
<__Sander__> has anyone tried Nix on TempleOS hehe?
<dtz> Also, sup folks :)
<__Sander__> oh yeah, I forget, TempleOS deliberately lacks networking support :D
<LnL> ibrahims: is NIX_SSL_CERT_FILE set?
<joepie91> __Sander__: don't say that too loudly, you might give people ideas...
<joepie91> :)
<__Sander__> hehehe
<ibrahims> 'echo $NIX_SSL_CERT_FILE' returns empty
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] globin pushed 3 new commits to openssl-1.1: https://git.io/vQ7on
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/openssl-1.1 e630e22 Robin Gloster: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master' into openssl-1.1
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/openssl-1.1 1216c3f Robin Gloster: mariadb: more lib -> connector-c
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/openssl-1.1 e3bafae Robin Gloster: clamav: fix build
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<joepie91> repeat of my earlier question: does anybody have any notes on running NixOS in an OpenVZ container (without access to the host)?
<joepie91> something more recent than what's on the wiki
<joepie91> or well
<joepie91> was* on the wiki
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<ixxie> joepie91: I found a copy of the wiki
<ixxie> if it helps
<joepie91> ixxie: I'm using the wayback machine
<joepie91> just generally curious whether there's any undocumented notes in people's heads :)
<ixxie> alright :)
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<LnL> ibrahims: ~/.nix-defexpr/etc/profile.d/nix.sh should set that for you
* mbrock wishes he could get NixOS to work on Raspberry Pi 3
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<ibrahims> LNL: i had a weird fish shell setup, somehow it didn't export that variable. thanks for the point. you rule!
<nh2> how does nix decide which paths to download and which ones to build?
<LnL> ibrahims: ah yes, I don't think the installer work for fish out of the box
<nh2> I have an issue where it puts a package into "these paths will be fetched" but then fails to download because that path doesn't exist on cache.nixos.org
<nh2> so I wonder how it knows ahead of time what can be fetched
<mbrock> ah, yeah, I just realized I used another .img
<mbrock> well, I used the .img from that URL you posted, but the GitHub thread links to another one, called `sd-image-aarch64-linux.img'
<disasm> domenkozar: I've met a few people like 0xABAB/butterfyla in my life. Some of them are really bright (usually on the aspergers spectrum), others are just plain trolls that like to complain about everything and do nothing... Regardless of which type, if they can't conform to the community rules, both can be toxic.
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<copumpkin> (I'd try to keep "medical diagnoses" out of any conversations like these)
<ixxie> mbrock: well, dezgeg is around here sometimes, so if you still get stuck after trying the other thing they may be able to help out
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<disasm> copumpkin: not suggesting he has a medical diagnosis, just that I know people that have been diagnosed that act like that.
<gchristensen> ok let's move on from that particular part
<mbrock> thanks. getting NixOS on the RPi seems kind of crucial for being able to maintain a RPi-based widget kind of thing
<yegortimoshenko> is it possible to use nix-build to build one result symlink with multiple packages in it?
<gchristensen> yegortimoshenko: yep, buildEnv
<yegortimoshenko> gchristensen: thanks!
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* ToxicFrog catches up on #17126, wait what
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<copumpkin> niksnut: I now have a couple of shady things I want to do with scopedImport
<globin> copumpkin, domenkozar, niksnut: how are we continuing to handle him? just ignore him?
<copumpkin> globin: I don't know. If he's had a warning before (I haven't been tracking all his conversations) I'd probably ban, but otherwise stand by the current warning and see where it goes from there
<gchristensen> niksnut: can you ban them?
<copumpkin> niksnut: I'm starting to think a more useful primitive is something like "deepScopedImport" might be easier to implement (with caching) and cover 90% of use cases (and all of mine)
<shlevy> copumpkin: ooh say more
<shlevy> I've been annoyed at the limits of scopedImport since it was added
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] ttuegel pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vQ7Pr
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 640137d Thomas Tuegel: dropbox: 29.4.20 -> 30.4.22
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 8c9273a Thomas Tuegel: Merge pull request #27382 from ttuegel/update/dropbox...
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<copumpkin> so one of the first combinators I wrote over scopedImport was a recursive thing that replaces a few functions all the way down an import chain
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] ttuegel closed pull request #27383: dropbox: 28.4.14 -> 30.4.22 (release-17.03...update/stable/dropbox) https://git.io/vQ7El
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<copumpkin> I'm thinking that should just be the behavior of scopedImport, so I can continue to use import everywhere beyond the first layer
<copumpkin> I guess it's still a caching challenge, never mind
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vQ7Pp
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 484df87 Taeer Bar-Yam: ring-daemon: init at 2017-07-11
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master e4229bb Joachim F: Merge pull request #27311 from Radvendii/master...
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<copumpkin> use case is to replace e.g., `builtins.foo` with my own implementation all the way down
<shlevy> copumpkin: I think we can cache by the address of the override scope
<gchristensen> copumpkin: oh my word
<gchristensen> copumpkin: builtins = { foldr = foldl; };
<copumpkin> something like that :P
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<copumpkin> we can already do that with scopedImport
<gchristensen> no
<shlevy> gchristensen: scopedImport has existed in nixpkgs for quite some time :D
<copumpkin> but it's a bit messy and scopedImport is slow
<shlevy> s/nixpkgs/nix
<gchristensen> I know ... but I didn't realize scopedImport could override builtins :o
<gchristensen> ok time to start a code obfuscation contest
<copumpkin> anyway, I'm using it for the deterministic nix evaluation stuff
<clever> gchristensen: it can also override NIX_PATH
<gchristensen> clever: that is what I knew it ctould do
<copumpkin> but I'm also thinking it'll be a crucial ingredient in the internal monorepo conversation
<copumpkin> that I was having with catern yesterday
<joepie91> copumpkin: monorepo conversation?
<copumpkin> yeah, how best to manage an internal big repo of code using Nix
<joepie91> ah
<joepie91> my intuitive response would be "don't have an internal big repo of code" :P
<gchristensen> rm -rf nixpkgs
<copumpkin> even if you don't, there's still issues with managing your own code with nix
<copumpkin> it's almost easier to do FOSS with it than your own projects
<copumpkin> I mean manage other FOSS than your own
<copumpkin> we don't have a good solution to deuplicating the .nix files inside the project and the ones in your central repository of packages
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<copumpkin> so you can either manage releases and bump hashes all the time
<copumpkin> and do import-from-derivation
<copumpkin> or you can have a monorepo-ish setup
<copumpkin> both of them are kinda painful
<copumpkin> or at least not as smooth as I think they should be
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<copumpkin> the monorepo setup has the advantage that you can use local source references (e.g., src = ./src; in your mkDerivation calls) but the disadvantage of making creating a channel a real PITA
<copumpkin> unless you want to bundle all your source code into the channel
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<copumpkin> anyway, will write more thoughts later, should probably do some work
<gchristensen> last job we went the route of per-project repos and it was hell, we had to use AOSP's `repo` to manage it all, and it was pure, concentrated pain
<copumpkin> anyway, I believe scopedImport can make this all a lot better ;)
<copumpkin> yup
<gchristensen> and our bill for github was a small fortune, despite each repo being small
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<domenkozar> copumpkin: my 2c: I suggest not having further discussions with butterflya
<gchristensen> ToxicFrog: ^
<Eisfreak7> Is there a nice sandboxing solution for nixos? The ability to determine exact dependency graphs should make for a nice sandboxing feature, shouldn't it?
<copumpkin> domenkozar: yeah, I'm not going to continue
<copumpkin> Eisfreak7: at runtime? not really
<copumpkin> Eisfreak7: at build time definitely and it already exists
<domenkozar> Eisfreak7: you can use systemd sandboxing
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] bjornfor pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQ71K
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 8a35f75 Bjørn Forsman: nixos/spice-vdagentd: remove needless shell
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<gchristensen> domenkozar: 1.11.13 just finished
<Eisfreak7> Hm yes I was talking about runtime. I was thinking something like firejail integration: I can enable firejail globally / on a per application basis an nix generates "firejail wrappers" that automatically call the binaries with firejail and an appropriate config
<domenkozar> niksnut: copumpkin ikwildrpepper gchristensen: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/27194#discussion_r127459136
<domenkozar> can we please vote to ban him?
<gchristensen> +1 to ban
<joepie91> +1 to ban, clearly showing no intent to change
<joepie91> but doubling down instead
<gchristensen> I mean, it is literally the same person who is already banned, not sure why we need to vote
<joepie91> also, fwiw, domenkozar, that first link suggests they're Dutch -- the :') emoticon is particularly commonly used in NL due to a Dutch forum (Fok!)
<joepie91> in case that may be a useful data point
<joepie91> (I rarely see it used by non-Dutch people)
<copumpkin> gchristensen: they are? 0xABAB is but butterflya still seems able to post
<domenkozar> this guy is so advanced, he has 1 year old github accounts for backup
<domenkozar> I mean, seriously
<gchristensen> I know but it is ban evasion
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<gchristensen> I don't think I've seen such blatant ban evasion since I +o'd ##php like 10 years ago
<copumpkin> anyway, no objection from me
<shlevy> +1 to banning, -1 to voting. I trust our org admins to make these calls and I don't trust the random selection of irc users who have opinions on this :D
<gchristensen> shlevy++
<domenkozar> well I wouldn't say random, but I agree
<shlevy> If we want to ensure community feedback, transparency around decisionmaking and a clear forum for surfacing issues with the way decisions are made may make sense. Crowdsourcing decisions as they happen, not so much :D
<copumpkin> I don't actually know who has the power to ban :) is it just niksnut and ikwildrpepper?
<copumpkin> time to bring up the usual CoC discussion ;)
<domenkozar> I can as well
* copumpkin runs
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] globin pushed 1 new commit to openssl-1.1: https://git.io/vQ7Mp
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/openssl-1.1 6aa2c14 Robin Gloster: opendkim: add patch for openssl 1.1
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<globin> domenkozar: +1
<domenkozar> banned
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<__Sander__> makes me wonder when the next dubious person shows up
<__Sander__> that happens to be him :)
<__Sander__> for a strange reason, I think this guy is enjoying what he is doing
<gchristensen> thank you, domenkozar
* ToxicFrog gnaws irritably on packages.tt
<ToxicFrog> Why is Javascript.
<bennofs> hmm, what was the problem with 0xABAB? I mean, it looks like most of his review comments were pretty bad / useless / wrong, but it doesn't look to me as if he did it on purpose
<niksnut> domenkozar: thanks
<__Sander__> and by responding to all his provocations, we encourage him to keep going
<copumpkin> bennofs: pretty active disparagement in some of them
<niksnut> he has been banned from various other projects as well
<copumpkin> bennofs: usually if someone disagreed with the review, it went downhill quickly
<copumpkin> niksnut: while we're talking about stealing your attention all over the place, can you quickly look at https://github.com/NixOS/nix/pull/1459#issuecomment-315377368? :) :) :)
<gchristensen> domenkozar: oh did you see 1.11.13 finished? :)
<bennofs> work-stealing scheduler :)
<domenkozar> gchristensen: I need to run now, hopefully can test in a few hours
<gchristensen> dang!
<gchristensen> maybe niksnut can release anyway, it is already an improvement
<bennofs> gchristensen: do a few hours make such a big difference ?
<srhb> bennofs: It's exciting! :-)
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<gchristensen> bennofs: depends how many people are failing to use it, but probably not too big
<ToxicFrog> why does jquery not have an escape_text function? Why doesn't *javascript*?
<ToxicFrog> AFAICT the "best" way to do this is to create a temporary <div> node, stuff the text into it, extract the HTML, then throw the node away
<niksnut> doing multiple releases per day looks so brown paper bag :p
<domenkozar> yeah I want to test this first :)
<domenkozar> otherwise we'll end up with Nix 1.11.99
<domenkozar> <3 gchristensen
<copumpkin> Nix 1.11.-1
<domenkozar> 1.11.-256
<copumpkin> 8 bits per version component ,and it's signed
<__Sander__> 1.11.111
<__Sander__> that would be an awesome version number :D
<joepie91> ToxicFrog: innerText
<ToxicFrog> joepie91: yeah, but again, that requires a DOM node
<joepie91> ToxicFrog: ...sure? but why would you need to escape HTML if not for use in a DOM node?
<gchristensen> domenkozar: :P
<catern> wow scopedImport seems real neat
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<ToxicFrog> joepie91: because I want to do other stuff with it before inserting it into the node.
<gchristensen> __Sander__: as long as we don't get to that python dependency which was asymptotically approaching 1, ie: 1.11.999999
<joepie91> ToxicFrog: what kind of stuff specifically?
<LnL> oh god, it still didn't bump it's version?
<__Sander__> haha :D
<gchristensen> domenkozar: I made this image for you, to encourage the ban, but I was too slow: http://i.imgur.com/LoBRVlG.png (the joke is the phrase on the show is "Move That Bus")
<catern> copumpkin: I don't know that much Nix language idioms yet so I don't know to what extent I can participate on my own merits in the monorepo conversation :)
<ToxicFrog> joepie91: what I'm actually working on here is the nixos package search license display. A license is either a string (needs to be htmlescaped and displayed), an object (needs to have a name extracted and escaped, then optionally wrapped in <a> if a url is also present), or an array of strings and/or objects (map as above, then interpose ', ')
<ToxicFrog> I wonder if it would be easier to just emit a TextNode for the string versions, text or <a> for the object versions, and use .map().interpose($("<div/>").text(", ")) to staple everything together for the last version
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] qknight closed pull request #27276: postfix: complete remake of postfix service (master...postfix_redone) https://git.io/vQPmZ
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<joepie91> ToxicFrog: I can see this being an issue in case 3 with hyperlinks - however, I've never run into that kind of issue since I wouldn't string-concatenate things together, but rather represent each license as a separate DOM node (probably a <ul> with <li>s), using CSS to affect the display to be a single comma-separated line
<joepie91> that is, take the semantic approach
<clever> joepie91: there is also document.createTextNode i believe
<joepie91> (in which case this issue doesn't exist since you can just assign the text to the hyperlink nodes)
<ToxicFrog> I don't know enough about CSS to do that. I'm just trying to improve the current display, which omits license info for the vast majority of packages.
<joepie91> .item:after { content: ", "; } .item:last-child:after { content: none; }
<clever> joepie91: you could also make a single ul, containing multiple text nodes
<joepie91> (could make it snazzier with margin etc. but meh)
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<joepie91> clever: items within a <ul> must be <li>s
<clever> var ul = document.createElement("ul"); ul.appendChild(document.createTextNode("foo")); ul.appendChild(document.createTextNode(", ")); ....
<ToxicFrog> Hmm. What's javascript for `apply`?
<joepie91> yeah, that is invalid :)
<clever> within the li i mean
<joepie91> don't really see the value of that though
<clever> var li = document.createElement("li"); ul.appendChild(document.createTextNode("foo")); ul.appendChild(document.createTextNode(", ")); ....
<joepie91> ToxicFrog: can you rephrase that question? :P
<ToxicFrog> apply(f, [1,2,3]) is eqv to f(1,2,3)
<ToxicFrog> It unpacks an ordered collection into the arguments of a function.
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<joepie91> right
<joepie91> in JS that'd be f.apply(null, [1, 2, 3])
<joepie91> the first argument being the `this` context
<joepie91> (ie. to affect the value of `this` within the function call's scope)
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<joepie91> ToxicFrog: in ES6 there's also f(...[1, 2, 3]) but I doubt that you're using Babel + a bundler, so that would probably not be a viable option
<joepie91> ToxicFrog: you should rarely need .apply in JS, though
<ToxicFrog> Oh, it's a method on the function itself. That makes sense.
<ToxicFrog> I probably don't need it here, but I got sidetracked
<joepie91> right :)
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<joepie91> ToxicFrog: also, bit of advice when working with JS: never use constructors or 'classes'
<joepie91> you don't need them, and they will just make things more difficult
<joepie91> just use object literals, return them from a factory function where necessary, etc.
<MoreTea> gchristensen, domenkozar did you have a location for the multi-user osx installer?
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<gchristensen> MoreTea: curl -o install https://nixos.org/nix/install; sh ./install
<MoreTea> oh, it's online already!?
<gchristensen> it is, however the `curl | sh` install steps don't work due to a bug (which is fixed, but the fix has not been released yet)
<gchristensen> is why I did the -o and the `sh ./instal`
<joepie91> that's an odd bug :)
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<joepie91> what causes that?
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<gchristensen> curl | sh robs stdin from the user on the sh, and the prompts failed-closed (ie: won't install)
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<joepie91> huh.
<joepie91> I mean, that sorta makes sense I guess
<gchristensen> I tested it many ways, but never like that :( the new version fixes it, and tests for that
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<MoreTea> awesome, this works just fine (on a borrowed macbook)
<gchristensen> nice :)
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<joepie91> ToxicFrog: btw, feel free to bother me with JS-y issues :p
<joepie91> or questions
<MoreTea> hmm. I once found an article on how to run OSX vm's under OSX itself.
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<gchristensen> vagrant can do it, MoreTea
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<nix-gsc-io`bot> Channel nixos-17.03-small advanced to https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/commit/14e1a15ced (from 27 hours ago, history: https://channels.nix.gsc.io/nixos-17.03-small)
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<MoreTea> gchristensen, you mean VirtualBox :)?
<gchristensen> no
<gchristensen> I mean, yes, but Vagrant specifically
<gchristensen> vagrant init http://files.dryga.com/boxes/osx-sierra-0.3.1.box; vagrant up
<MoreTea> I was wondering if we could use a hypervisor on the mac mini's to replace the travis tests
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<gchristensen> legally gray
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<MoreTea> one can run at least one virtualized VM right?
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<ToxicFrog> joepie91: will do, thanks
<gchristensen> MoreTea: 1 apple machine allows you 1 running copy of OSX on that machine
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<MoreTea> so, if we'd only use them for integration tests, we should still be OK, right?
<ToxicFrog> I had this working fine for text, but then someone in review pointed out that it will not properly handle license names that require escaping, and now there's spiders everywhere.
<gchristensen> MoreTea: that is where I get to "It'd be a bit of a waste to have a whole, capable Apple machine not running full-bore on other x86_64-darwin Hydra jobs."
<MoreTea> They should not exclusively build tests?
<joepie91> ToxicFrog: this sounds about right for programming :)
<joepie91> (in general)
<MoreTea> dinner, brb.
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<pietranera> Hi I would like to install terraform 0.9.11 with nix-env, but an older version is provided by nixpkgs (NisOS stable). The terraform derivation is just a call to buildGoPackage, and I don't know how I can create an overlay where the version and sha256 is overridden.
<copumpkin> pietranera: you could also just pick up nixos-unstable which has a newer version
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<copumpkin> that doesn't have to update your entire system
<copumpkin> you can mix and match packages
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<pietranera> copumpkin thanks
<pietranera> I wanted to see whether the overlay mechanism worked
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<pietranera> I will try and add the unstable channel then.
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<pietranera> as I didn't find a way to override the arguments of buildGoPackage
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<pietranera> (still happy to take suggestions though)
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<copumpkin> TBC, the override can probably work too, but I haven't looked
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] bjornfor opened pull request #27387: nixos/libvirt: prevent OVMF path from being garbage collected (master...libvirt-fix-ovmf-gc) https://git.io/vQ75H
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<nix-gsc-io`bot> Channel nixos-17.03-small advanced to https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/commit/849b5a5193 (from 23 hours ago, history: https://channels.nix.gsc.io/nixos-17.03-small)
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<pietranera> copumpkin yes, my silly overlay was working but at this point I'd rather get the prebuilt binaries from the nixos cache :) thanks!
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<schoppenhauer> hi. what do i have to do to be able to deoploy nixops machines locally? not as virtualbox? it tries to connect via ssh.
<schoppenhauer> but I have no-root-login
<srhb> schoppenhauer: Like as nixos containers?
<schoppenhauer> srhb: yes
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<schoppenhauer> srhb: seems like it needs root access via ssh or something
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<srhb> schoppenhauer: That makes sense, that's how it works everywhere else.
<schoppenhauer> srhb: ok, so I have to allow root login via ssh?
<srhb> I never got the containers to work, so I don't think I can help, really. Just wanted to clarify.
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<clever> schoppenhauer: i have heard that nixops has a proper container backend
<schoppenhauer> clever: so?
<clever> that one might not need root on the guest
<schoppenhauer> clever: what do I have to do?
<clever> dont know, havent actually used that backend
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<schoppenhauer> the thing is, it tries to use ssh-root-login. I'd allow that for 127.0.0.1, but …
<clever> ah
<schoppenhauer> I would assume that it doesn't work then either
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<schoppenhauer> hm. ok. probably virtualbox is easier for the moment.
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<schoppenhauer> but would be good to know I think
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<chpatrick> Hi
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<chpatrick> We're having a weird problem with grub-config.xml being empty in a nixos deployment
<chpatrick> The strange thing is that nix-store --verify-path seems to think that it's OK
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<chpatrick> Even though it's clearly different from what's on our developer machines and the deployment fails
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<Filystyn> how to change root pass in nixos
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<chpatrick> It doesn't seem to be a disk problem
<clever> Filystyn: run passwd as root
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<vaibhavsagar> chpatrick: armchair suggestion because I'm about to go to bed, but what happens when you run nix-build --check?
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<vaibhavsagar> or maybe you can't even do that with grub-config?
<Filystyn> clever can't log as root
<Filystyn> or should i just go from live usb ?
<chpatrick> vaibhavsagar: this is a nixops deployment onto AWS
<clever> Filystyn: if your locked out, you can try adding "init=/bin/sh" to the kernel commandline in grub
<clever> Filystyn: that will drop you into a root shell, bypassing all login prompts
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<Filystyn> k
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<vaibhavsagar> chpatrick: what if you delete it and then run nix-store --verify --repair --check-contents
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] bjornfor pushed 2 new commits to release-17.03: https://git.io/vQ7xM
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/release-17.03 b436981 Bjørn Forsman: nixos/acme: support "full.pem" (for lighttpd)...
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/release-17.03 2d491aa Bjørn Forsman: nixos/acme: improve documentation...
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<vaibhavsagar> actually even if it's a nixops deploy, you should be able to ssh into it and run nix-rebuild
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nix] grahamc opened pull request #1466: Multi-user installer for Darwin (master edition) (master...nix-master-darwin-install) https://git.io/vQ7x5
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<himmAllRight> Does anyone know how I can install the needed Latex binaries in nixOS?
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<07IAAHG20> [nix] edolstra closed pull request #1466: Multi-user installer for Darwin (master edition) (master...nix-master-darwin-install) https://git.io/vQ7x5
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<17SABIOYV> [nix] edolstra pushed 18 new commits to master: https://git.io/vQ7pL
<17SABIOYV> nix/master a0ad8ba Graham Christensen: Shellcheck the existing installer
<17SABIOYV> nix/master fb40d73 Graham Christensen: Switch to a fancy multi-user installer on Darwin
<17SABIOYV> nix/master 2b5ab03 Graham Christensen: multi-user install: move the profile in to the nix etc/profiles.d output
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<gchristensen> niksnut: so fast :D
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<vaibhavsagar> himmAllRight: nix-env -qaP 'tex.*'
<vaibhavsagar> to see the packages available to you
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<vaibhavsagar> texlive looks like the one you want
<himmAllRight> vaibhavsagar: Thanks. Will I be able to connect to it through emacs (spacemacs really)
<vaibhavsagar> I don't see why not
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nix] edolstra pushed 4 new commits to master: https://git.io/vQ7pd
<NixOS_GitHub> nix/master 6438ba2 Eelco Dolstra: StorePathsCommand: Don't build installables...
<NixOS_GitHub> nix/master 3908d39 Eelco Dolstra: nix path-info: Don't barf on invalid paths...
<NixOS_GitHub> nix/master fdc9da0 Eelco Dolstra: Avoid a call to derivationFromPath()...
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<himmAllRight> vaibhavsagar: Okay. I'm trying the texlive-combined-full-2016 package. I had tried texmaker but that and emacs couldn't find the text binary
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<Filystyn> clever added line in grube after hitting e -> init=/bin/sh
<Filystyn> after this F10 and...
<Filystyn> nothign happened
<Filystyn> loged me normaly
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<pbogdan> anyone here on 17.03, using chromium, and wiling to do me a small favour? if possible I would like to see the output of chrome://sandbox/
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<gchristensen> pbogdan: suid sandbox: no, namespace: yes, pid: yes, network: yes, seccomp-bpf: yes, seccomp-bpf tsync yes, yama lsm enforcing no
<gchristensen> "you are adequately sandboxed"
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<pbogdan> gchristensen: thanks! does it say "PID name spaces" or "PID namespaces" for you, or was that exact output?
<gchristensen> it was quickly retyped output :) it says "PID namespaces"
<gchristensen> and the "Namespace: yes" one was "Namespace Sandbox: yes" ... I can copy-paste exactly what I have if you'd like :P
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<pbogdan> no, that's fine, was particularly interested in the pid one
<gchristensen> cool
<pbogdan> thanks again
<gchristensen> you're welcome
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<nix-gsc-io`bot> Channel nixos-17.03-small advanced to https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/commit/3597b5f7fc (from 6 hours ago, history: https://channels.nix.gsc.io/nixos-17.03-small)
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<greglearns> ... I'm still trying to solve Rust on NixOS, so that I can deploy Rocket.rs web apps to AWS using NixOps....
<greglearns> yesterday, tilpner and I tried to get a Nix-expression working, but... I couldn't get it working. Today, I'm exploring an alternate path...
<greglearns> is it possible to compile a Rust app and then just have it copied to a NixOS machine (via NixOps)?
<gchristensen> sure
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<Infinisil> I'm just thinking about what nixpkgs should become over time
<Infinisil> There are going to be more and more packages
<Infinisil> And having all of that in a single git tree, not so sure about that
<Infinisil> I'm finding lots and lots of packages which could be added to nixpkgs, but I don't want to clutter it, but that's somehow really what one should do today
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<dash> Infinisil: what problems do you predict from making nixpkgs bigger?
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<gchristensen> does anyone remember who came up with the docker tools that created a layer per dependency?
<LnL> that's a thing?
<gchristensen> yeah
<gchristensen> I mean it isn't, in nixpkgs
<gchristensen> but it is a thing in their nixpkgs :)
<LnL> interresting
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<catern> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh
<catern> nix-dev is moving
<dash> gchristensen: exarkun did something like that
<catern> this is bad
<gchristensen> why?
<gchristensen> thank you dash
<LnL> are layers cachable like that regardless of their base image?
<catern> because afaik gmane still isn't accepting new mailing lists to translate to NNTP
<gchristensen> LnL: yup :D
<catern> and I was reading nix-dev through gmane
<gchristensen> catern: we can ask nicely
<gchristensen> it isn't a new mailing list
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<nix-gsc-io`bot> Channel nixos-17.03-small advanced to https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/commit/9bcc738404 (from 3 hours ago, history: https://channels.nix.gsc.io/nixos-17.03-small)
<LnL> yeah I thought so, not the image itself but that's not as big of a deal
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<gchristensen> bash: ls: command not found ... looks like I forgot coreutils
<LnL> yeah or busybox
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<Infinisil> dash: I'm not sure what problems this could bring actually, I'll just add whatever I feel like, we can deal with problmes when they arise
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<gchristensen> " runAsRoot is a bash script that will run as root in an environment that overlays the existing layers of the base image with the new resulting layer, including the previously copied contents derivation. This can be similarly seen as RUN ... in a Dockerfile. " this is the most confusing sentence
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<greglearns> has anyone compiled Rust with MUSL and then copied that to a NixOS machine as a binary?
<catern> gchristensen: no, that won't work... gmane is pretty much dead to the world except for existing lists that are already being archived :(
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<Infinisil> Do you think I should add this to nixpkgs? https://github.com/alexanderepstein/Bash-Snippets
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<schoppenhauer> is it possible to maintain a nixos module outside of the nixos repository?
<schoppenhauer> I want to define some configurable service, but it is specialized. I saw https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/master/nixos/modules/module-list.nix which is a list. can I extend this list?
<schoppenhauer> extend it inside some nix expression for, for example, some nixOps module
<schoppenhauer> I mean for some nixOps vm specification
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] bjornfor opened pull request #27389: [backport] OVMF: separate output for ovmf binaries (release-17.03...ovmf-backport) https://git.io/vQ53L
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<joachifm> schoppenhauer: you can add your module to imports, e.g., { config, ... }: { imports = [ ./my-module.nix ]; config = ...; }
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] pbogdan opened pull request #27390: chrome/chromium: beta and dev fixes for release-17.03. (release-17.03...chrome-17.03) https://git.io/vQ53j
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<schoppenhauer> joachifm: where?
<clever> schoppenhauer: you can add an imports list to any nixos module, to extend the module list
<clever> schoppenhauer: configuration.nix is another module
<clever> schoppenhauer: nixops also takes a list of modules when you create a deployment
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] bjornfor pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQ5GN
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 407b569 Bjørn Forsman: nixos/lighttpd: fix indent (tab -> space)
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<schoppenhauer> clever: ok, and these modules are always called and create configuration options?
<clever> yeah
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<schoppenhauer> clever: how can I test this?
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<clever> there is a nixops deploy --build-only and --evaluate-only
<schoppenhauer> clever: I rather want to test whether my declaration will actually work
<schoppenhauer> clever: and missing configuration options will not make it fail, I think
<clever> inspect the output from --build-only, and confirm if it created the right files
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<schoppenhauer> clever: the right files?
<clever> what is your custom module going to do?
<schoppenhauer> clever: currently nothing. currently I just copied tt-rss and renamed a few options.
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<clever> ah
<schoppenhauer> clever: I want to make sure that I get the syntax right before
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<clever> put a syntax error in and confirm if "nixops deploy --evaluate-only" fails
<clever> thats the simplest way to confirm its loading the file
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<schoppenhauer> clever: it loads the file. but does it add the configuration options?
<clever> if you rename the main thing under options.services, then you can use it in the configuration.nix file
<clever> and if its not adding the options, configuration.nix will fail
<schoppenhauer> clever: if I write "services.bla.enable = true;" then nothing fails.
<schoppenhauer> clever: how do I check whether an option is there?
<clever> where did you write that?
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<clever> can you gist every file involved?
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<schoppenhauer> clever: ah, --evaluate-only is not enough. I need to deploy it fully to make it fail (just saw this by coincidence)
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<clever> there is also "nixops deploy --build-only", which will build everything, but not actualy deploy it to a remote system
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<schoppenhauer> clever: ok thx!
<schoppenhauer> clever: it works!
<ison111> Is there any way to have a systemd service (like httpd) installed and ready to go but not activated by default when you start your system?
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<clever> ison111: yes, just dont set wantedBy
<clever> and it wont run on startup
<clever> ison111: this line makes the service run on bootup, just leave it out: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/release-17.03/nixos/modules/services/networking/ssh/sshd.nix#L247
<ison111> clever: What do you mean by "leave it out". I never put it in. You mean like this? systemd.service.httpd.wantedBy = [];
<clever> just dont even set wantedBy
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<ison111> I haven't.
<clever> then it shouldnt start on bootup
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<ison111> alright, I'll double check. Last time I tried it though I was pretty sure it started automatically.
<clever> and keep in mind, nixos will merge all the modules together
<clever> so if another module already set wantedBy, that will also take effect
<ison111> clever: If it starts the service when I do nixos-rebuild switch is that an indicator that it would do it too when I restart my system?
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<ison111> I just switched from a profile where httpd was uninstalled and it automatically started it.
<clever> ison111: systemctl show httpd.service | grep WantedBy
<ison111> WantedBy=multi-user.target
<clever> can you gist your configuration.nix?
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<clever> your setting services.http, not systemd.services.httpd
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<clever> ison111: and the code behind services.http.enable sets wantedBy for you
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<clever> ison111: to undo that, you would need to do systemd.service.httpd.wantedBy = lib.mkForce [];
<ison111> So do I keep the rest of my configuration under services.httpd and just remove the "enable" line and put it under systemd instead? Or do I move my entire configuration under systemd.services?
<clever> keep the existing config, including the enable line
<clever> and add the line i gave above
<ison111> alright, thanks
<clever> if you remove enable, then the systemd service wont even be created
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<ToxicFrog> Which is extremely aggravating. :(
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<ison111> clever: not sure if I did it right. I set systemd.service.httpd.enable = true; and also false. When I had it set to true it seemed to still start up the services automatically, when I set it to false it prevented it didn't automatically start them, but now when I try to manually start them it says it's "masked".
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<clever> ison111: if you set enabled = false;, then nixos wont even create the service
<clever> so there is nothing to start
<clever> you must set enable = true; and add the line i gave above
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<simukis> I think https://nixos.org/nixos/manual/index.html#sec-uefi-installation near /boot stuff might want to mention that it is a good idea to give a great deaal of space (maybe 1GB or so) for the partitio
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<ison111> clever: I'm not sure what line you're referring to. I thought you mean the systemd.services.httpd.enable
<ToxicFrog> Ok, nixos package search thingy updated.
<gchristensen> fetchurl: it is curious to me that you regularly hang out in here, but as a different nick each time (abspath cryptsetup dns_ fetch_ fetchurl foobardns grayen guacamole_ inf-rec mongodb-native nixnode nixos-install nomachine phpfpm qmake robomongo subl3 xcb xcursor)
<clever> ison111: yeah, that enable must be set to true
<clever> ison111: and you must also add systemd.service.httpd.wantedBy = lib.mkForce [];
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<catern> gchristensen: heh, good observation, that's cute
<catern> must be all the things they are looking for help with :)
<catern> or just different pieces of software
<fetchurl> Why is it that Nix when a different hash has been found than expected and you correct this, that it will download the file again, while it should still have the previously downloaded file available? It should be able to check for the already downloaded in the store, right? Am I misunderstanding something?
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<LnL> fetchurl downloads things to the store, since the hash was not correct the build failed and the output path is incorrect
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<gchristensen> catern: you are absolutely right! cat .weechat/logs/irc.freenode.#nixos.weechatlog | awk '$3 ~ /abspath|cryptsetup|dns_|fetch_|fetchurl|foobardns|grayen|guacamole_|inf-rec|mongodb-native|nixnode|nixos-install|nomachine|phpfpm|qmake|robomongo|subl3|xcb|xcursor/ {print $0}'
<LnL> lol
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<LnL> all my generated python packages are green \o/
<fetchurl> gchristensen: I did not know it tracked me like that, although I did notice that my IP was mentioned with my nickname, I just took nicknames of things I was working on, or figuring out at that time
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<gchristensen> fetchurl: that is cool :) I didn't grep by your IP, but your "user" name: d9672d13@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.103.45.19 "d96.."
<gchristensen> which I guess is a hash of your IP
<LnL> and no more evaluation errors :D
<fetchurl> gchristensen: I really have to try weechat some time, I just keep using webchat.freenode.net, because it good enough for my use
<gchristensen> fair! no worries :) just was a surprising curiosity :D
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<fetchurl> I was suprised someone noticed!
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<LnL> yeah, the only one I've noticed is "so" he must have a good mention filter :p
<clever> LnL: that one always messed with my tab-complete, and my mention filter only triggers if my name is at the very start of a line
<fetchurl> But regarding my question, why has the choice been made to do it like that, I would have expected the source to be saved seperately from the build, because now I have had cases were it had to download gigabytes instead of just once a few hundred MB
<MoreTea> fetchurl, you can use `nix-prefetch-url $URL`
<Infinisil> Can I get internet in a --pure nix-shell?
<MoreTea> it will download, add to the store, and print out the SHA
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<MoreTea> Infinisil, nix-shell --pure -p curl --run "curl -L https://google.com" outputs stuff, so yes ;)
<LnL> fetchurl: nix doesn't really know about what fetchurl is doing inside the build
<Infinisil> Hmm
<Infinisil> Okay it's the packages fault I think, never mind then
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] bjornfor pushed 1 new commit to release-17.03: https://git.io/vQ5Ro
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/release-17.03 1436cc4 Joachim Fasting: OVMF: separate output for ovmf binaries...
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<fetchurl> MoreTea: Yeah, but you need to specify the correct URL and name right? I figure that, e.g. in my case downloading Factorio the name would be: /nix/store/gxrik76yn1kyi6j64mj5v3nbd1d7cznk-factorio_alpha_x64-0.15.30.tar.xz but then I would still have to reverse engineer the URL from the Nix sources, since I dod not see it mentioned in the output anywhere
<pbogdan> how is trust of a binary cache established? is it a case of "I trust this entity" or is there something in nix that would enforce that contents of said cache can't be tampered with?
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<fetchurl> LnL: Do you mean it (fetchurl) can differ depending on its inputs, but if it stores it in the store, should this not matter, only that the name and hash match should matter right?
<MoreTea> fetchurl, yes, but the command nix-prefetch-url takes the URL, and outputs the hash.
<LnL> yes you could implement an alternative for fetchurl that uses ipfs or whatever that generates the exact same output
<LnL> changing the url of fetchurl also doesn't change the output since the hash didn't change
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<ToxicFrog> joepie91: so I ended up using CSS as you suggested in the end and I hate CSS now.
<ToxicFrog> But it works.
<joepie91> ToxicFrog: if you hate CSS, that means you've learned something about styling :)
<joepie91> (don't worry, most people do)
<joepie91> turns out that styling content is a Really Hard Problem and the quirks that CSS has don't help with that
<fetchurl> I will test nix-prefix-url, but from what I remember, it will still redownload the file, since the name did not match, so I download it, get the correct hash, fill in the correct hash, but then it redownloads, because the filename was different, but maybe I remembered wrong
<gchristensen> you can pass --name
<gchristensen> IIRC
<fetchurl> yes, but then you need to know the name, reverse engineering it from the Nix source, or stopping the build process the moment it mentions it
<clever> i usualy just increment a random number in the hash
<clever> so its invalid, and wont match up with the old file
<clever> then let nix-build fail
<fetchurl> clever: That is exactly what I do, but then it downloads it twice, hence my initial question why it does that
<clever> ah
<joepie91> clever: if you have a sec, https://git.cryto.net/joepie91/nixops-configuration now shows what I was trying to do a few days ago and why I didn't want to merge attrsets; specifically see eg. https://git.cryto.net/joepie91/nixops-configuration/src/master/lib/node-application.nix#L1-L7
<joepie91> clever: 'parametric module' pattern, for maintaining certain scopes across modules/files
<clever> fetchurl: there is also a new thing, nix-prefetch-url '<nixpkgs>' -A hello.src i think it was
<clever> joepie91: that will download it, and then rename its entry in the store, to match the real hash
<clever> so when you run the nix, it wont do a 2nd download
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] dezgeg pushed 1 new commit to staging: https://git.io/vQ5ES
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/staging 5ff18c4 Tuomas Tynkkynen: libuv: Disable yet another test...
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<joepie91> clever: mishighlight :)
<clever> oops
<joepie91> (nevertheless an important tidbit of knowledge)
<fetchurl> clever: Thanks, I will look into that!
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<clever> with normal fixed-output downloads in nix, you tell nix what the hash of $out will be ahead of time, and nix computes $out based on that hash, and ignores all build inputs
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] adisbladis opened pull request #27391: postgresql-9.2.20 -> postgresql-9.2.21 (master...postgres_cves) https://git.io/vQ5uv
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<clever> and nix will enforce the data matching that hash
<clever> with the new nix-prefetch-url -A, it will rename the output after the download is finished, so it always lands in a path matching its hash, even if the hash isnt what nix was expecting
<manveru> oooh
<manveru> how new?
<clever> not sure, try it and see what happens
<Infinisil> I have this package I'm adding, it's basically just a bunch of useful bash scripts, but each one of them has dependencies such as {curl,wget,fetch}, {vlc,mvp,mplayer}, and more. Should I just not make any of these included? Or should I include everything?
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<clever> [clever@amd-nixos:~]$ nix-prefetch-url '<nixpkgs>' -A hello.src
<clever> downloading ‘http://ftpmirror.gnu.org/hello/hello-2.10.tar.gz’... [0/0 KiB, 0.0 KiB/s]
<fetchurl> Is it documented somewhere, googling it does not really help
<clever> works on nixos-unstable
<manveru> well, i don't see it in the manpage, that's why i'm asking :)
<clever> fetchurl: its in the changelogs for nix
<fetchurl> ah
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<fetchurl> Its there since 1.11, nice
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] bjornfor pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vQ5zj
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 292827b Bjørn Forsman: nixos/libvirt: modify xml with xmlstarlet...
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master b8e109d Bjørn Forsman: nixos/libvirt: prevent OVMF path from being garbage collected...
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] bjornfor closed pull request #27387: nixos/libvirt: prevent OVMF path from being garbage collected (master...libvirt-fix-ovmf-gc) https://git.io/vQ75H
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] bjornfor pushed 2 new commits to release-17.03: https://git.io/vQ52W
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/release-17.03 cf9bb65 Bjørn Forsman: nixos/libvirt: modify xml with xmlstarlet...
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/release-17.03 7b390ba Bjørn Forsman: nixos/libvirt: prevent OVMF path from being garbage collected...
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<Infinisil> How can I have a nix-shell with a package I just added to my local nixpkgs tree?
<Infinisil> This works somehow, I'm having some problems with it though:nix-shell -E 'with import ./. {}; runCommand "h" {buildInputs = [ mypacket ];} ""' --pure
<gchristensen> Infinisil: well because a directory isn't a function maybe
<nh2> I'm having a nixops problem: When deploying from a NixOS machine (as root), I get the error "/nix/store/pbhxc864gqach922mgl4v03d9dff93h4-grub-config.xml:1: parser error : Document is empty". And indeed that file is empty. But the same path is not empty on my Ubuntu machine, which is weird because files with same hashes should have same contents, right?
<nh2> I guess a "grub-config.xml" file should never be empty, right?
<Infinisil> gchristensen: Huh?
<Infinisil> I'm calling this in the nixpkgs checkout
<Infinisil> Hold on, I'll demonstrate the problme
<gchristensen> sorry, I was confused by the import ./.
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<Infinisil> This works: nix-shell -E 'with import ./. {}; runCommand "h" {buildInputs = [netcat];} ""' --pure --run nc
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<Infinisil> Because nc is in the package netcat
<Infinisil> but this doesnt: nix-shell -E 'with import ./. {}; runCommand "h" {buildInputs = [bind];} ""' --pure --run dig
<Infinisil> even though dig is in the bind package
<gchristensen> oh
<gchristensen> well it isn't >.>
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<Infinisil> Ohh, where is it then?
<gchristensen> one sec, it is obnoxious
<gchristensen> bind.dnsutils
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<Infinisil> Ah thanks
<Infinisil> :d
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<clever> nh2: what happens if you run nix-store --query --hash on that path, on both machines?
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<nh2> clever: I get different shas on the 2 machines then
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<clever> nh2: what about the output of "nix-store -l /nix/store/<foo>"
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<nh2> clever: that's it! On the "good" machine no output, on the bad machine this:
<nh2> # nix-store -l /nix/store/pbhxc864gqach922mgl4v03d9dff93h4-grub-config.xml /nix/store/685n25b9yc8sds57vljk459ldly1xyhn-stdenv/setup: line 500: /run/user/0/nix-build-grub-config.xml.drv-0/env-vars: Permission denied
<nh2> clever: that's related to some issue I encountered before but thought I had worked around: https://github.com/NixOS/nixops/issues/319
<nh2> clever: it happens when I run `nix-shell -p nixops` as root and use the nixops provided by that environment. danbst found that problem originally (cc aszlig)
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<clever> nh2: ah, so it sounds like one of the machines had already "built" a copy of that file, and it didnt have to copy it over from the good machine
<clever> nh2: and the build "passed" even with a fatal error
<fetchurl> clever: After fixing a few things in my configuration, including some annoying unclear infinite recursion, it does work, but not for factorio, since does not use fetchurl, so it fails on missing a urls attribute, but a nice thing to know about for other packages
<clever> nh2: using nix-store --delete, you should be able to remove the failed build, and then try it again
<clever> fetchurl: yeah, factorio uses a pretty weird and unique fetching system
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQ5rM
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 5bee13f Jörg Thalheim: restbed: fix license and evaluation...
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<ToxicFrog> After getting license info showing, I think I now see how to implement support for nonfree packages, too.
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<nix-gsc-io`bot> Channel nixos-17.03-small advanced to https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/commit/2d491aafd0 (from 5 hours ago, history: https://channels.nix.gsc.io/nixos-17.03-small)
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<ToxicFrog> Shouldn't be too hard to have an "include nonfree y/n" toggle and put a little ⚠ next to them or something.
<gchristensen> ToxicFrog: cool! :D
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<radvendii> If I add a nixos module, how do I test it?
<ToxicFrog> Broken is proving a bit harder because if I enable includeBroken in the package list generator, it doesn't build _at all_
<ToxicFrog> (but I care about that less, so I'll probably just implement nonfree support for now and leave broken for someone else to deal with~)
<gchristensen> ToxicFrog: not great advertising broken stuff anyway
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<gchristensen> domenkozar: any luck testing?
<ToxicFrog> gchristensen: no, but as a default-off option it could be useful
<gchristensen> meh, I wouldn't bother :P
<ToxicFrog> After all, someone asking "does nixos have package X" might respond differently to "no" and "yes, but it doesn't build right now"
<LnL> my idea at the time was that a temporary broken package wouldn't disappear from the website
<gchristensen> but what is the practical difference?
<LnL> but might be better to just leave it out
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<ToxicFrog> gchristensen: if they're in a patching mood, it might prompt them to look at the derivation and submit a patch :)
<ToxicFrog> But like I said, I will leave this to other people to implement, since while I think it would be a good thing I don't actually care that much
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQ5Kb
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 3ef073e Jörg Thalheim: nodePackages.js-beautify: init at 1.6.14...
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<gchristensen> cool
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<gchristensen> a improvement is better than no improvement
<ToxicFrog> Whereas not showing nonfree packages has bitten me several times, and I'm far from the only one
<gchristensen> see also my favorite issue
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 closed pull request #21980: nodePackages: Add js-beautify (master...js-beautify) https://git.io/vMMnk
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<nh2> clever: I'm not copying form the good machine, I just had the good machine for comparison. I'm comparing the deployment "good machine -> 3 hosts deployed with nixops" with "bad machine -> 3 hosts deployed with nixops"
<sphalerite[m]> sorry to bring this up again, but FWIW I agree with 0xABAB's banning. I contribute to NixOS because I enjoy using it and feel that my contributions are valued. 0xABAB's shitting all over stuff did not contribute to my enjoyment!
<gchristensen> thank you :)
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<sphalerite[m]> I do agree with most of their technical opinions but I think their value is more than offset by their unpleasantness.
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<Ralith> +1
<sphalerite[m]> Also, I've got myself a new baby laptop (chromebook) and was looking to install nixos on it. Has anyone here used nixos with coreboot?
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Ericson2314 closed pull request #27368: cc-wrapper: Unify and improve dynamic linker flag logic (staging...cc-wrapper-interpreter) https://git.io/vQQPo
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<sphalerite[m]> Considering installing debian+nix instead also, because there are convenient step-by-step instructions for debian and I'm quite confident that I'll manage to install nix from there :p
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<simpson> sphalerite[m]: I'm afraid that you've chosen poorly as far as customizeable hardware; Crouton is a thing.
<sphalerite> simpson: I chose it because libreboot will run on it
<simpson> sphalerite: I'm just saying that, despite the appearance of being general-purpose hardware, they really aren't.
<sphalerite[m]> What's missing from them?
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<simpson> Horsepower, mostly. Not much RAM, mediocre GPU/CPU packages, that sort of thing.
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<sphalerite[m]> right, that doesn't surprise me in the slightest
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<simpson> I used to be on the team that makes the software that runs on Chromebooks. We did *not* develop on them. They were solely deployment and testing devices. I did plop Crouton on a couple of mine, and it works, but it's also pretty unfun. The fanciest I got with a Chromebook was getting a few emulators running on it many years ago, and it wasn't happy doing that either.
<gchristensen> I love the idea of a chomebook though
<sphalerite[m]> Main reasons I got it are A, so I have something that will run libreboot just because that's cool, and B, for taking to the US. I don't want to take my normal driver laptop with me
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<radvendii> how often is the unstable channel updated
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<radvendii> and how do i check when the last update was?
<sphalerite[m]> simpson: I'm expecting to use it for a little python program, some light browsing, and as a thin client to access beefier machines via SSH
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<sphalerite[m]> surely those are reasonable expectations?
<simpson> sphalerite[m]: Oh, totally, don't come to the USA with hardware that you value.
<simpson> 100% agree. Carry shitty laptop with you instead.
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<gchristensen> radvendii: https://channels.nix.gsc.io/graph.html is usually correct, but sometimes a bug in the nix channel update process causes it to say a channel update happened, however in reality the channel update failed
<radvendii> gchristensen: thanks
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<sphalerite[m]> Oh yeah, anyone in or near Washington DC care to meet up for a pint and chat when I'm there in just over 2 weeks?
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<gchristensen> copumpkin:
<Ralith> what's the standard way to get a gcc7 stdenv? just overrideCC stdenv gcc7?
<gchristensen> sure
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<tikhon> Is there a convenient way to integrate hpack with Nix for building Haskell packages?
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<nix-gsc-io`bot> Channel nixos-17.03-small advanced to https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/commit/7b390ba4dc (from 2 hours ago, history: https://channels.nix.gsc.io/nixos-17.03-small)
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<apostolis> Can I install a package from master without having to download the git rep.?
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<copumpkin> you can do a shallow clone or grab the github tarball (automatically)
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<apostolis> It is ok, I am downloading the repo.
<copumpkin> for future reference, you can just add a github tarball URL as a channel
<copumpkin> and it'll update like any other channel
<LnL> nix-build -I nixpkgs=https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/archive/master.tar.gz -A hello
<apostolis> ok, good to now.
<apostolis> know
<apostolis> Nioce
<apostolis> Nice
<LnL> hold on I think it's just, nix-build https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/archive/master.tar.gz -A hello
<LnL> either way something like that should work
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<apostolis> I need to learn the commands... :)
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<Infinisil> When I added a package, shouldn'te I just be able to use outputs = [ "out" "man" ] and it adds those manpages to the list of manpages when installing?
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<Infinisil> Specifically it's this manpage: https://github.com/alexanderepstein/Bash-Snippets/blob/master/bash-snippets.1 which gets installed to $out/man, then extracted to its own output $out/share/man
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<Infinisil> Installing it with nix-env -f path/to/nixpkgs -iA bashSnippets
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<Infinisil> But i can't use `man weather` or `man bash-snippets
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] hamishmack opened pull request #27392: pango: temp fix for font size on Retina displays (master...master) https://git.io/vQ55i
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<samae> hey, am I the only one that has a: “manual-combined.xml fails to validate” when building the following derivation /nix/store/jzdvny020lx4j09ic1jl1hfcf0yvfh2i-nixos-manual-combined.drv
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<samae> but of course, I'm using unstable-small, and that kind of breaking can be expected
<samae> I'll try it later on
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<Infinisil> samae: What rev is this?
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] mbrgm opened pull request #27393: restic: 0.6.1 -> 0.7.0 (master...upgrade-restic) https://git.io/vQ5bJ
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