worldofpeace changed the topic of #nixos-dev to: NixOS Development (#nixos for questions) | NixOS 20.09 Nightingale ✨ https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixos-20-09-release/9668 | https://hydra.nixos.org/jobset/nixos/trunk-combined https://channels.nix.gsc.io/graph.html | https://r13y.com | 20.09 RMs: worldofpeace, jonringer | https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-dev
<{^_^}> firing: RootPartitionLowInodes: https://status.nixos.org/prometheus/alerts
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<red[evilred]> 350,000 builds a week(!)
<supersandro2000> can you post the link for that?
<supersandro2000> where you found that information
<red[evilred]> Under "The Mission"
<red[evilred]> hydra.nixos.org - a Nix build farm, consisting of hundreds of macOS, x86-64 (Linux) and aarch64 (Linux) build cores. Hydra executes over 350,000 builds each week.
<supersandro2000> Commiter team? Reviewer Team?
<red[evilred]> There's a reviewer team?
<red[evilred]> I see lots more teams on github - but I assumed they were RBAC teams as opposed to organization teams
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<supersandro2000> Should there be? IDK
* red[evilred] shrugs
<supersandro2000> yeah whatever. If people can't find us they can't write us mails.
<samueldr> the governance page of the website is more about speciality teams
<red[evilred]> and there isn't a 1:1 mapping of teams / rbac / github teams either
<red[evilred]> for example - security team on website, 3 people, security team on github, 10 people, people on security irc doing stuff - more
<red[evilred]> etc
<red[evilred]> I'm guessing those enumerated on the pages are either elected (for some teams like rfc / guidence) or people who are just known solid because of their length of time and amount of work done
<red[evilred]> ie - stability
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<jtojnar> hexa-: that would be question for worldofpeace, I do not really maintain anything but unstable to avoid burnout
<hexa-> good choice
<red[evilred]> I wish I had that discipline
<red[evilred]> I have this really bad habit of taking on too much and then burning out
<jtojnar> it helps to make oneself not care
<jtojnar> though it is hard too
<jtojnar> * not that that is very easy
<jtojnar> but it comes with practice
<supersandro2000> red[evilred]: Normally if this happens to me I just abandon one of my hobbies or disappear for a week or 12
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<red[evilred]> yeah- me too
<red[evilred]> you can't really "wean" yourself off burnout
<red[evilred]> it took me years to realize when I was reaching that point before it happened
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<V> burnout needs a good long break so you can get back to baseline before attempting the same thing again
<red[evilred]> exactly
<red[evilred]> I think the hardest lesson for me was learning to walk away before the snap made it easier to get to baseline than walking away after.
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<{^_^}> firing: RootPartitionLowInodes: https://status.nixos.org/prometheus/alerts
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<{^_^}> firing: RootPartitionLowInodes: https://status.nixos.org/prometheus/alerts
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<maralorn> domenkozar: Uh, oh … A minor version bump in servant (0.18.1 -> 0.18.2) seems to have broken servant-swagger …: So cachix is broken again on haskell-updates. /o\ https://hydra.nixos.org/eval/1630019
<maralorn> "fix it"
<maralorn> Huh, probably we can just fix it by disabling the test suite.
<maralorn> It's already reported upstream.
<{^_^}> haskell-servant/servant-swagger#129 (by felixonmars, 18 hours ago, open): Test suite doesn't build with servant 0.18.2
<mkaito> my horse and my kingdom for searchable nix/nixpkgs API docs
<lukegb> I'm so glad sourcegraph.com exists because I use it far too much for navigating around nixpkgs
<lukegb> but still I get annoyed at the inconsistent location of random buildPetProgrammingLanguageBar functions :p
<das_j> lukegb: Huh? Does it support nix?
<lukegb> das_j: Mostly I use it for doing regex-search across the repo in a web browser; the actual semantic go-to-definition stuff I use less (and is mostly based on ctypes unless you've uploaded an LSIF)
<lukegb> (sometimes I use ripgrep locally but just doing it in a web browser is kinda convenient, especially with doing f: filters and things)
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<mkaito> I've resorted to keeping emacs open on the other monitor on a clone of nixpkgs, and I just ripgrep
<domenkozar[m]> maralorn: yeah disabling test suite is pretty common, most of Haskell maintainers don't want upstream to run tests
<maralorn> domenkozar: I have had positive experiences with reporting test issues to upstream. It sometimes shows issues with implicit assumptions about context and increases my confidence in our package set.
<maralorn> But yeah, I disable test-suites all the time in nixpkgs.^^
<domenkozar[m]> oh yeah I always report upstream
<domenkozar[m]> we even have arianvp who's the maintainer of servant packages here :)
<{^_^}> firing: RootPartitionLowInodes: https://status.nixos.org/prometheus/alerts
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<domenkozar[m]> oh what a drama in pulseaudio
<domenkozar[m]> at least they got 14 out yesterday
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<domenkozar[m]> no changelog :O
<supersandro2000> I am doing something wrong here https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/104893
<{^_^}> #104893 (by SuperSandro2000, 35 minutes ago, open): python37Packages.jupyterlab-git: 0.22.3 -> 0.23.1
<supersandro2000> nix tries to evaluate basically anything and I don't really understand why
<lukegb> ooh, pulseaudio 14
<lukegb> supersandro2000: wait, what's the problem?
<supersandro2000> nix tells me that over 5000 packages got removed when running nixpkgs-review
<lukegb> o_O
<supersandro2000> but then it only builds two
<supersandro2000> and my machine died almost doing that
<lukegb> hmm, nixpkgs-review seems happy on that PR for me
<lukegb> (as does ofborg)
<supersandro2000> O_o
<lukegb> on NixOS or Darwin?
<symphorien[m]> supersandro2000 happens to me when nix OOMs
<lukegb> oh right, yeah, that would make sense
<symphorien[m]> downloadmoreram
<supersandro2000> both actually
<supersandro2000> symphorien[m]: interesting
<supersandro2000> but I think I did stupid stuff
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<lukegb> gchristensen: so is ofborg's darwin builder broken at the moment? is there anything I can do to help?
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<gchristensen> was just about to reply :(
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<gchristensen> for those curious: I was just contacted by a person the github account I was concerned about on 2020-10-31 https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-dev/2020-10-31#4175055 was impersonating, their wikipedia page and github account was taken down and the real person has kindly asked us to never say their name again
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<red[evilred]> What a peculiar situatino
<red[evilred]> * What a peculiar situation
<jtojnar> does running build-vm machines with sound (e.g. using env QEMU_NET_OPTS="-device intel-hda -device hda-duplex") work for you on NixOS?
<jtojnar> for me, it fails with errors about missing some alsa .so plug-ins but maybe that is because this is Ubuntu host
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<lukegb> `2972 packages updated:` hmm
<sphalerite> gchristensen: should I have a look at it now?
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<{^_^}> firing: RootPartitionLowInodes: https://status.nixos.org/prometheus/alerts
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<infinisil> What if Hydra was hooked up to PR's directly
<infinisil> As in, every PR gets its own hydra jobset (maybe only for somewhat trusted people)
<infinisil> And it only shows as green if there are no new failing builds
<infinisil> And these jobsets would be deleted after the PR is merged/closed
<gchristensen> today, hydra can't tell you that because it requires two full evaluation, build cycles to tell you if anything changed
<LnL> unless something major changed, hydra dies
<gchristensen> each evaluation creates 100,000+ new database records, which would also be a cost
<infinisil> Hm I see..
<sphalerite> Hydra does even have support for building PRs, doesn't it?
<gchristensen> it does
<gchristensen> hydra's scheduler might not be robust enough to balance that many things
<gchristensen> querying the status of a jobsets is somewhat costly, and many jobsets is significantly costly, something the jobset list page already struggles with
<sphalerite> gchristensen: should I have a look at the aarch64 machines?
<gchristensen> ah, yeah, great!
<gchristensen> -> -infra or -aarch64, pick your poison :)
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<infinisil> Idea: Make an actual test suite for nixpkgs that will be run for all PR's
<infinisil> That one should be fast to run, and test behavior of important parts of nixpkgs
<infinisil> I guess this probably doesn't help very much with the PR churn though..
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<jtojnar> how do you make a test for all important parts that is fast to run?
<supersandro2000> I just found a maintainer whos github account no longer exists. Is it safe to remove it?
<LnL> FYI the current evaluation checks (no builds) takes ~10 minutes
<qyliss> supersandro2000: they just renamed
<qyliss> that's why we track the id
<supersandro2000> oh right. Should then the name be updated?
<qyliss> probably
<qyliss> i'd cc the user on the pr
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<infinisil> Maybe we should levelage github actions to only trigger certain tests when they're relevant
<infinisil> You can limit actions to run only when specific paths are changed
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<Mic92> The comments about ipfs are not speaking for it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25209246
<{^_^}> firing: RootPartitionLowInodes: https://status.nixos.org/prometheus/alerts
<gchristensen> ouch
<Mic92> on my beefy server it also constantly produces 15% cpu time and I only have one file added there.
<hexa-> as soon as you've browsed the status page you're sharing it :)
<hexa-> and there are ipfs crawlers that create quite some noise
<hexa-> I finally disabled ipfs because the ipfs init script started hanging on every rebuild
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<Mic92> If think hanging was resolved eventually
<domenkozar[m]> Mic92: ipfs has always been a fair tale :)
<gchristensen> I ran ipfs for a few minutes over a year ago and I still get people trying to connect to my node
<domenkozar[m]> fairy*
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<samueldr> ipfs works, if you want big buck bunny
<samueldr> (sorry)
<domenkozar[m]> if you look at p2p software it has been always used by idealist and outlaws: tor, bittorent
<domenkozar[m]> sorry played too much rdr2 today, I meant criminals.
<qyliss> not sure that's true of tor
<qyliss> securedrop seems to be pretty widely deployed
<domenkozar[m]> then there are some really niche use cases, like hiding from government that is on the edge
<qyliss> p2p Skype was widely used
<domenkozar[m]> yeah, I mean whistleblowers are complicated bit legally, but at the end of the day you're trying to game the system, not really have a product
<domenkozar[m]> so if p2p skype was so great, why is it legacy? :)
<qyliss> because it didn't work well on Windows Phone, apparently
<domenkozar[m]> the main reason was again to game the system
<domenkozar[m]> they needed to get past firewalls
<domenkozar[m]> and that pissed off a lot of people
<domenkozar[m]> since it was a good way to bring down a network
<domenkozar[m]> suddenly someone became a supernode inside an organization
<domenkozar[m]> so lots of networks had skype banned
<qyliss> wdym by "not really have a product"?
<qyliss> what's the product here?
<domenkozar[m]> to provide value that people are willing to pay for
<domenkozar[m]> sometimes people are willing to pay to game the system, but that destroys stuff so it's always short term
<domenkozar[m]> s/stuff/trust/
<qyliss> and who are you saying isn't providing a product? tor?
<symphorien[m]> quite ironical to point to tor users as the people who undermine trust on the internet ;)
<domenkozar[m]> I would like to see a number of examples of a successful p2p products that otherwise wouldn't be better off being centralized
<domenkozar[m]> symphorien: I said either idealists or criminals, very rarely those trying to hide from government for "good" reasons
<qyliss> I understand a lot of multiplayer video games are p2p
<symphorien[m]> my point was rather that big central actors don't look that good at inspiring trust today
<domenkozar[m]> qyliss: that's a good example!
<symphorien[m]> but it's slightly off-topic
<domenkozar[m]> I can imagine those games aren't real-time, but that's not a requirement
<qyliss> some of them are I think
<qyliss> although it's a topic I know extremely little about
<domenkozar[m]> I wonder why is p2p better there than having central servers
<qyliss> servers are expensive I think
<domenkozar[m]> most of the good old times it was that it handled spike
<domenkozar[m]> but nowadays cloud makes that go away
<domenkozar[m]> spikes*
<qyliss> also means you can keep playing the games once they shut down the servers
<qyliss> assuming you can connect directly to the other player somehow without needing a matchmaking thing
<domenkozar[m]> right so I wouldn't be surprised OSS games use p2p
<domenkozar[m]> and indie games
<qyliss> I think there are AAA P2P games
<qyliss> I was reading about one recently I think
<qyliss> not sure if I'll be able to find it
<qyliss> doesn't help that p2p now apparently also means "pay to play" in the video game context
<red[evilred]> Soo... I see that name -> pname and version. Does that mean that name = "${name}-${version}"; is now prohibited?
<red[evilred]> I saw mention of repology - but looking for the policy / rfc / whhatever behind it so I can understand
<domenkozar[m]> qyliss: :D
<cole-h> I believe Destiny 2 uses a p2p / dedicated server hybrid for stuff
<domenkozar[m]> yeah I'm just reading on that
<cole-h> Lots of complaining in PvP
<red[evilred]> so should name not exist at all?
<qyliss> I imagine pretty much every game is going to have centralised matchmaking because that's difficult to do p2p
<qyliss> red[evilred]: it's certainly not prohibited
<qyliss> red[evilred]: most people don't seem to do it any more, and pname/version means you can easily get the version of a derivation without parsing the name
<domenkozar[m]> they don't seem to be able to explain why they needed p2p
<domenkozar[m]> just that it's cool
<domenkozar[m]> gaming industry is known to be hustle heavy
<red[evilred]> Thanks qyliss (IRC) - I was encouraged on one place and just got feedback on a different PR to not do it
<domenkozar[m]> The developers themselves describe their networking topology as "uniquely complicated," which is not an understatement as the document from their presentation at the Game Developers Conference 2015 shows.
<domenkozar[m]> lol
<red[evilred]> so was hjoping to find a documented "standard"tm
<red[evilred]> I just foudna treewide PR that doesn't seem to be re-populating the name field - so I guess whatever discussions happened over it now resolved in that direction
<domenkozar[m]> anyhow I'd like things to be otherwise, but I used to believe in p2p 10 years ago now I'm waiting for someone to prove it before I take the bait again /offtopic
<red[evilred]> just wanted to make sure I got it right for future ones.
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<domenkozar[m]> qyliss: oh for the record, bitcoin as a store of value counts :)
<qyliss> yeah that's a weird one
<domenkozar[m]> it again is more to game the system
<domenkozar[m]> you don't need it for day to day stuff
<domenkozar[m]> but in case of war it would be invaluable
<domenkozar[m]> but the substitue for gold is a weird one.
<JJJollyjim> living in new zealand with great national internet but significant latency to all the clouds, i wish p2p games were more common
<domenkozar[m]> well I'm pretty convinced starlink will solve that problem
<domenkozar[m]> once they manage to get cross satellite communication working
<domenkozar[m]> so technically that's p2p :P
<qyliss> everything uses BGP :P
<domenkozar[m]> heh
<qyliss> and that's all fine and has no problems whatsoever
<domenkozar[m]> :D
<domenkozar[m]> I mean I could get drunk with people that have access to BGP
<domenkozar[m]> so no problems at all
<JJJollyjim> lol how so domenkozar? we don't have bad conections to the rest of the world, it's just physical distance
<JJJollyjim> right but the physical distance means latency
<JJJollyjim> whether via satellite or fiber
<gchristensen> yeah its AU with terrible connections
<domenkozar[m]> if you pick two most distant places in the world
<domenkozar[m]> the latency in vaccum would be 133ms
<domenkozar[m]> so that's the worst case distance wise and best case in medium
<JJJollyjim> ah i see, it's the propogation delay thing
<JJJollyjim> interesting
<domenkozar[m]> but you'll get much better results with starlink
<domenkozar[m]> less routers and in general air is better medium than even optics
<domenkozar[m]> I studied telecommunication so I tend to have an opinion over this :D
<domenkozar[m]> and also not that it's really rare to have optics between two points so it's quite suboptimal
<domenkozar[m]> note*
<gchristensen> the wild thing about AU's terrible internet is companies like Yahoo even have massive and massively underused fiber to AU but still
<JJJollyjim> domenkozar: a traceroute to the US is like
<JJJollyjim> 15ms to hamilton (where the undersea fibre lands)
<JJJollyjim> then the next hop is 150ms to california
<JJJollyjim> that's not a router issue right, it's all optical?
<aristid> i don't actually know what the situation is in australia, but i would guess australian internet is probably mostly bad due to high latencies and the fact that many common TCP implementations degrade their bandwidth when latency is high?
<gchristensen> no, because NZ has significantly better internet
<JJJollyjim> yeah australia had governmental fuckups, so they never got a good national network
<gchristensen> I mean, yes and :)
<domenkozar[m]> Jamie: optics tehoretical speed limit is 67% of speed of light
<domenkozar[m]> while air is quite close to vaccum
<domenkozar[m]> so it makes a difference
<JJJollyjim> yeah, i see it could still help because of that
<JJJollyjim> domenkozar: though wouldn't each satellite act as a router, adding latency? and there'd be a ton of satellites in the path right, cos the orbit is so low?
<aristid> domenkozar[m]: but right now this hypothetical latency advantage of starlink is not yet realized, right?
<domenkozar[m]> aristid: Jamie: yeah we don't know what they aim for
<aristid> JJJollyjim: the router would hopefully not add 30ms of latency ;-)
<JJJollyjim> aristid: iirc they don't have regulatory approval to do inter-satellite communication
<JJJollyjim> right, but domen was saying that's a big part of the problem (which i don't think it is in the specific nz case)
<domenkozar[m]> well I'm saying that each bit of infrastructure adds "quite a bit" to the latency and having 100% control of it under one company will make it possible for them to optimize towards the theoretical limits
<JJJollyjim> hmm yeah
<JJJollyjim> i guess you could pre-allocate wavelengths to be repeated to a specific next satellite, without any buffering
<JJJollyjim> based on demand
<domenkozar[m]> I think starlink will change internet as we know it
<domenkozar[m]> but since it's not fashionable to like Elon, I never said that :)
<domenkozar[m]> anyway, time for bed
<aristid> i don't know, starlink seems mostly useful for relatively rural areas which by definition don't have that many people
<aristid> or remote places like au/nz i guess ;-)
<domenkozar[m]> nah
<domenkozar[m]> that's only phase 1
<domenkozar[m]> you'll see :)
<domenkozar[m]> g2g.
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<red[evilred]> So - I'm looking at the output of nix-store -q --graph ~/.nix-profile
<red[evilred]> I guess if I want to explore the entirity of nixpkgs that means I have to try to compile everything and bring everything into scope to use this method/
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<red[evilred]> It's interesting - because in my current environment I have six glibc-2.27 hashes, one 2.32 hash - and a number of 2.(27|32)-bin hashes
<red[evilred]> I'm curious to see what's causing them to split like that
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