worldofpeace changed the topic of #nixos-dev to: NixOS Development (#nixos for questions) | NixOS 20.09 Nightingale ✨ | | | 20.09 RMs: worldofpeace, jonringer |
<V> anyone willing to take a look at ?
<{^_^}> #101127 (by deviant, 4 weeks ago, open): nixos/defaults: init
* V wonders how many months it'll take to get merged at this rate
<andi-> the commit message sounds weird..
<V> which commit message?
<V> there's like 10 of them
<andi-> err the PR title
<V> or do you mean github's patch series summary thing
<andi-> my first impression is that it should be more smaller PRs
<andi-> one at a time
<V> it's a number of smaller cohesive commits
<andi-> Yeah still
<V> like I'm not a huge fan of the GitHub flow here
<samueldr> I'm not sure it _should_ be smaller PRs
<V> my opinion here is that it'll make it much harder to track
<samueldr> looking quickly it seems big because of the trivial changes
<V> and that they don't really make sense on their own
<andi-> Yeah, at a second look it might be good to go in as one. I am a bit worried about the new passthru and how we keep everyone informed that they should set that.
<V> shellPath's been in there for quite some time
<V> I think that my change there actually improves the error messages for that, IIRC it was just "package" before
<V> and now it's "shell package"
<V> I guess the description field could be fleshed out more
<V> but the only place these are used (users.defaults), there's documentation regarding those attributes
<andi-> Yeah but I wouldn't think about that when adding an editor
<andi-> while I might read the docs for packaging
<V> I'd absolutely miss the passthru attribute, though. the docs are pretty badly organised
<V> and I've read through the entire thing multiple times at this point
<andi-> it is in the stdenv docs of nixpkgs
<andi-> updateScript is mentioned there
<V> would be better if there were sections on "how to add <X> to nixpkgs"
<andi-> Maybe
<V> problem with that is that's a whole load more work, and I don't have quite the energy or motivation to write up a bunch of new documentation rn when this module has been sitting around since May
<samueldr> I wouldn't want to hold up that PR only for a bikeshedding of docs
<samueldr> not saying that is the case right now though
<samueldr> adding to the bikeshed: there should be a list of well-known passthru arguments
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<samueldr> the fact that the release notes specifies the new options is good enough as a minimum
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<samueldr> I know it's not merging an attrset into the configuration, which is verboten
<samueldr> but it sure looks like it
<samueldr> and I'm not sure what merging an attrset with a derivation does really
<samueldr> > vim // { editorCommand = "gvim -f"; }
<{^_^}> "<derivation /nix/store/r28bm4r4d61195a80irdw600kz2apai1-vim-8.2.1522.drv>"
<samueldr> > vim
<{^_^}> "<derivation /nix/store/r28bm4r4d61195a80irdw600kz2apai1-vim-8.2.1522.drv>"
<V> it is a little exhausting going over the entire set of commits there, attempting to test the entire set of editors/etc in nixpkgs, rebasing everything through almost two releases, all before even making the PR; and then having activity on it amount to mild "eh this could be slightly more clear" and then no activity for a week or two until I prod people again, is all ^^'
<V> that's safe; setting passthru inside of a derivation is equivalent to //ing on an attrset IIRC
<V> they're the same thing
<samueldr> yeah, though for that initial part before contributing there's nothing we could do about it :)
<samueldr> V: yeah, I saw that after saying
<samueldr> hopefully no one assumes that doing that means merging modules configuration using `//` is fine
<samueldr> (not that there's much we can do about that)
<V> mm
<V> I feel that says more about the state of the module system & the language syntax than it does about that example :p
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<samueldr> yeah, as I said, not that there's much we can do about that here :)
<samueldr> could POSIXLY_CORRECT break the system if set that way?
<samueldr> if so, I would suggest another example, in case someone just blindly follows an example value with "correct" in the name
<V> oh god
<V> I wouldn't like to think
<V> I would like to assume that people wouldn't just blindly fill in things they see in examples
<V> we could replace it with POSIX_ME_HARDER :p
<V> do you have any suggestions for something that isn't likely to cause problems if set?
<samueldr> I think release notes + documentation in option description is enough as a base minimum for documentation for the change
<samueldr> V: the colour one
<samueldr> or any of the color ones I guess :)
<V> uhhhh NO_COLOR? IIRC
<samueldr> I thought there might have been one more generic
<samueldr> uh maybe
<samueldr> yeah
<V> supposedly but I'm having difficulties connecting since my wifi keeps dissociating every 5 seconds
<samueldr> not standard per se, but good enough for an example
<V> it's a miracle that quassel hasn't died throughout talking to you
<samueldr> much better than accidentally POSIXfying a posixly-incorrect system
<samueldr> quassel is quite amazing
<V> ah there we go
<V> or not
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<lopsided98> Could someone take a look at #83904? It fixes a pretty big bug in the sanoid module, and IMO it really just needs someone with the proper permissions to take a quick look and merge.
<{^_^}> (by ju1m, 33 weeks ago, open): sanoid: fix sanoid.conf generation
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<red[evilred]> So gentoo has the concept of USE flags
<red[evilred]> we have overridable attributes right?
<clever> red[evilred]: yeah, .override works in a similar way
<red[evilred]> can anyone give me an example from nixpkgs that is somewhat frequently used?
<red[evilred]> the only thing I can think of is choosing your mysql variant
<clever> if i run `nix edit -f '<nixpkgs>' mplayer`, it opens the mplayer/default.nix in an editor
<red[evilred]> but I guess I'm looking for something that changes configure flags or something stupid like that
<samueldr> there is no "global" flags though
<red[evilred]> for a side-by-side comparison
<clever> and i can see various options like vdpauSupport, lameSupport, pulseSupport
<samueldr> it is extremely ad-hoc and per package
<clever> some like pulseSupport default to a global flag called pulseaudio, but most dont
<red[evilred]> ... and tehhre's no way to discover them currently right except source browsing?
<red[evilred]> (thhat was one of the call-outs during nixcon iirc)
<clever> red[evilred]: correct, you have to read the source to find them
<samueldr> exactly
<red[evilred]> thank you -=- that helps me a lot
<clever> samueldr: due to how callPackage works, you can kinda do global flags
<samueldr> yeah
<clever> samueldr: if you make an overlay that just does xvSupport=false;, it will affect everything expecting an xvSupport
<samueldr> I meant, there isn't really in use
<clever> but yeah, thats ugly, because its not in a config namespace but a package namespace
<samueldr> and uh, don't (ab) use the properties of callPackage like that please ;)
<clever> yeah
<samueldr> > pkgs.src # is already annoying enough
<{^_^}> "<derivation /nix/store/pv3ha6xrsnsba16wwx4bchkkc6ahxqbd-src-1.28.drv>"
<samueldr> if you do "too clever" things
<clever> yeah, ive seen that cause problesm before
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<red[evilred]> haha M4
<red[evilred]> <3
* red[evilred] moves his keyboard one key to the right
<red[evilred]> all the actual "work" done by NixOS building etc is done by some kind of daemon right?
<red[evilred]> so conceivably - there could be multiple front-end applications for managing a system
<clever> red[evilred]: yeah, when using a proper multi-user setup, the nix-daemon spawns off the workers that do the actual builds
<red[evilred]> (not saying this is a good idea - just understanding where the functional boundaries are)
<samueldr> can you import a .drv directly?
<samueldr> and instantiate / build it?
<clever> the import function can be ran on a .drv, or you can just run `nix-store -r` on a drv file
<samueldr> if so, yeah, you're even not limited to Nix the language
<clever> guix generates its own .drv files, from guile
<red[evilred]> so nix-daemon via unix socket
<red[evilred]> Is that interface documented anywhere out of curiosity?
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<clever> red[evilred]: i dont think its documented, but the api is fairly simple, and the source is open
<red[evilred]> Thanks - I'll have a nose around
<red[evilred]> Just curious
<samueldr> I believe one reason it's not documented is that it could change without backwards compatibility
<V> andi-, samueldr: ty for the feedback, btw; I really appreciate it
<samueldr> you're welcome
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<raboof> who do I bribe to become part of the github 'Maintainers' team? I'd like to help add 'topic: 6. reproducible builds' labels
<b42> raboof: afaik you need to be in maintainers-list.nix and have github 2fa enabled, then a bot invites you
<raboof> b42: I meet those criteria, but the bot was disabled because we don't have a way to avoid re-inviting people that have declined in the past
<{^_^}> rfc39#3 (by cole-h, 7 weeks ago, open): Create a database of already-invited users and don't invite them again
<gchristensen> if only they just accepted :)
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<siraben> I also meet those criteria but unfortunately haven't gotten an invite
<siraben> Is there still a manual process in place to add new maintainers?
<gchristensen> yes but it is slow and error prone :P. I really hope someone manages to add a little database of some sort
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<siraben> How much does it cost to maintain Looks like they switched to netlify in March.
<gchristensen> almost all of infra is contributed
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<siraben> What do people here use to edit the nix documentation? Looks like Emacs doesn't have a more WYSIWYG-type package for docbook
<jtojnar> I just need tag autoclosing and auto-indenting which works fine for me in ST but if that is not enough, I have packaged
<{^_^}> #95593 (by jtojnar, 13 weeks ago, merged): xxe-pe: init at 9.4.0
<jtojnar> siraben^
<siraben> Jan Tojnar: I see. I'll try editing it in Emacs with XML modes and see what the result is like.
<qyliss> pro emacs XML tip: C-c / is close the current tag
<qyliss> that's the only thing I've needed to know for it to be comfortable-ish
<jtojnar> siraben: you might also want something like
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<Ericson2314> FRidh: OK I think I read enough to know how to do it for python :)
<Ericson2314> and I'll to make the process less miserable also :)
<Ericson2314> globin: ^ that means I'm finally dragging myself to make a `makeScope` for splicing that sucks slightly less. I think i'm getting better about making the perfect not the enemy of the good :)
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<gchristensen> anyone know why nixos's AMI uses wget instead of curl for fetching metadata?
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<gchristensen> oh nice
<gchristensen> thanks!
<niksnut> to be honest, I don't understand why connecting could ever fail, since I assume it's provided by the hypervisor
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<gchristensen> probably just a problem of systemd ordering
<gchristensen> would anyone be interested in a #nixos-cloud channel for issues around targeting hosting providers?
<gchristensen> like a baby working group thing
<domenkozar[m]> If anyone fancies NixOS+Terraform tutorial:
<{^_^}> nix-dot-dev/ (by domenkozar, 5 hours ago, open): Add tutorial for deploying NixOS with Terraform
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<gchristensen> chainsed by busybox: wget: unrecognized option '--method' BusyBox v1.31.1 () multi-call binary.
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<gchristensen> andi-: so, maybe you have some ideas
<gchristensen> to make that PR merge we need a better http client than busybox wget, because we need to issue a PUT. curl has a 40M closure, the initrd is 12M now
<andi-> printf "PUT /somewhere HTTP/1.0\r\n\r\n$DATA" | nc server 80
<andi-> ?
<gchristensen> :cold-sweat:
<gchristensen> let's check the docs to see if they officially recommend -L
<gchristensen> nope ... oh god ...
<andi-> gchristensen: what for do you need the PUT?
<andi-> to upload the host key?
<gchristensen> so you have to have a way more capable open proxy than a trivial get to get creds
<andi-> interesting
<andi-> have you considered building a curl with most of the "bloat" disabled?
<samueldr> ugh, pkgsStatic only brings down curl to 23M due to the openssl dep, probably for runtime files
<samueldr> /nix/store/fiakb1cvjnrm5sbcrnh1p7wal225qsxj-curl-7.73.0-x86_64-unknown-linux-musl-bin 4.2M 23.9M
<samueldr> /nix/store/nwfdcpxwyk74r1far371zljimi7wf6vh-openssl-1.1.1h-x86_64-unknown-linux-musl 19.7M 19.7M
<infinisil> gchristensen: exec 3<>/dev/tcp/; echo -e "GET /latest/api/token HTTP/1.1\nX-aws-ec2-metadata-token-ttl-seconds: 600\n\n" >&3; cat <&3
* gchristensen sobs
<andi-> does our bash support /dev/tcp?
<andi-> I hope it doesn't
<gchristensen> its ash :)
<infinisil> Maybe not then
<infinisil> It works in sh though, I think!
* andi- remembers that 40 byte reverse shell exploit for $enterpriseSystem thanks to /dev/tcp
<samueldr> shouldn't, it's really a bash thing
<clever> andi-: theres also plain old tmate, which doesnt even need port forwarding
<tilpner> du -csh $(nix-store -qR $(nix-build -E 'with import <nixpkgs> {}; pkgsStatic.curl.override { http2Support = false; sslSupport = false; zlibSupport = false; scpSupport = false; gssSupport = false; }'))
<tilpner> 483K total
<gchristensen> creating and depending on a highly unique build of `curl` seems like a gnarly idea, and we'd need to make it a channel blocker
<tilpner> What did I do wrong, samueldr?
<gchristensen> but we could :)
<samueldr> tilpner: nothing, I just did -A pkgsStatic.curl
<samueldr> ah
<clever> tilpner: try non-static first, and check the -qR to see what it depends on
<samueldr> tilpner: nix path-info -rsSh ./result-bin
<clever> then it will be easier to know what to strip out
<samueldr> not saying it'll change anything, but I made the least effort possible, while you made more effort :)
<gchristensen> would we rather add 40M to initrd, or add a niche curl to the release blockers? (cc worldofpeace )
<gchristensen> (cc jonringer )
<samueldr> don't we have a "boot" curl?
<samueldr> is its closure smaller?
<andi-> I am looking for that right now
<tilpner> samueldr: Ahh, the difference between du and path-info must be me forgetting to pass --apparent-size
<samueldr> but you *did* disable things, while I didn't
<LnL> gchristensen: I think we just rely on nix for fetching initially, but bootstrap tools might have a curl
<clever> tilpner: nix generally reports the size of the .nar from when it was built (not sparse, not compressed), while du defaults to actual disk usage (rounds up to blocksize, but compression and sparse can also make it smaller)
<clever> LnL: i think there is also a curl used to fetch curl
<clever> 15 , # The `fetchurl' to use for downloading curl and its dependencies
<clever> 17 fetchurlBoot
<clever> 16 # (see all-packages.nix).
<LnL> fetchurlBoot uses nix
<tilpner> clever: Good catch on checking dynamic first
<gchristensen> I mean, how much of the spec do we need to implement anyway
<clever> LnL: the comment in the stdenv says to look at all-packages.nix, but it no longer exists there!
<clever> 95 fetchurlBoot = import ../../build-support/fetchurl/boot.nix {
<clever> LnL: and yep, its <nix/fetchurl.nix> which is sandboxed but builtin
<LnL> boostrap-tools does also have it, no idea why tho
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<gchristensen> we should probably just use pkgs.curl. whats 40m between friends, and it isn't its own /boot anyway
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<clever> gchristensen: that kind of thinking leads to a 200mb initrd that fails to boot on my pi due to bugs in the usb loading!
<gchristensen> what're you booting the NixOS AMI on your pi?
<clever> and yes, i'm being silly :P
<gchristensen> for*
<clever> i was trying to boot an initrd with gdb in it
<clever> because arm gcc decided that if you leave off `return 0`, it should try to execute data, lol
<gchristensen> wow
<clever> i didnt say return, so the function didnt return, and the PC just fell off the end of the function
<clever> and began running whatever followed
<gchristensen> nice
<clever> gcc did warn me, but nix-build -Q
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<gchristensen> /nix/store/h3ryafxz68qzvnhkn15qwrjkya5kacd9-initrd-linux-5.4.77 26.8M 26.8M
<gchristensen> not bad. let's see if it works.
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<worldofpeace> gchristensen: A niche curl? I don't really like having too many variants
<worldofpeace> hmm, I should put up my GitHub sign that I'm on vacation. and in a warmer country too!
<gchristensen> !
<cole-h> Well-deserved, I'm sure.
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<worldofpeace> wishin yall warmthhhhhh. I won't be entirely unavailable tho, I have a "great" internet connection
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<ajs124> worldofpeace: apparently saturday will finally cross below 0°C around here, so it'll be nice and cold :D
<samueldr> I don't like how it adds to the system an elf interpreter; testing build outputs on those systems is now not guaranteed
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<infinisil> samueldr: Hm yeah..
<samueldr> while I understand the concept and understand why it's needed for many, this puts a big caveat with results
<ajs124> Mic92: you're famous :O
<gchristensen> I like the idea, I agree with that and wouldn't want it enabled by default -- but maybe a user command similar to how macos' M1 lets you start programs pretending to be x86
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<samueldr> that'd be nice if we had something, let's say, fhs-run ./my-app
<gchristensen> yea
<samueldr> like steam-run, you know
<samueldr> ;)
<samueldr> (what I mean, tongue-in-cheek, is that everything's there already for that)
<aterius> What are the advantages of this over steam-ruN? I get the approach is different ofc
<worldofpeace> ajs124: awww. Okay, but like u can still see the sun right? Not like winters in iceland
<samueldr> it doesn't run in a different context, except for the required environment variable
<samueldr> while a steam-ran binary runs in a... container?
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<infinisil> probably just a mount namespace
<infinisil> I'd hope at least
<samueldr> ajs124: we've had under-zero C temps for a couple of days already :)
<samueldr> but yeah, that means that processes started from *that* steam-ran process also inherit that weird environment
<samueldr> while with nix-ld they're in the same environment as normal, except for the inherited env var
<samueldr> (which could cause unexpected behaviour with running an app through nix-ld through one that already ran through nix-ld I guess)
<aterius> Makes sense!
<samueldr> "see, I can run app $foo fine when I started it from $bar, but not from $quux!"
<samueldr> it'd be interesting to see the same concept use files rather than environment vars to describe depedencies of a binary
<samueldr> not sure how the file lookup could be done
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<worldofpeace> gchristensen: so here's my very serious stance on this PR
<samueldr> on binary hash it would be annoying to update every time, on binary name it could cause conflicts, on binary full path you lose the ability to just put it anywhere... so maybe side-by-side with the executable? e.g. for ./foo, ./foo.nix-ld
<worldofpeace> overall there's a lot of changes needed
<gchristensen> worldofpeace: yeah :) needs to go to stable, as right now the AMI doesn't work if you turn on the "be less insecure" option :)
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<worldofpeace> Oh right, I've actually used the AMI's a few times for 20.09
<V> ugh I hate this graph, it's so misleading
<V> Arch is actually better than NixOS if you look at the numbers IIRC
<infinisil> gchristensen: I've had an idea like this a while ago, but it would be really useful for this: Trace the syscalls of a curl call to figure out which paths that exact call needs, and no others
<infinisil> This should minimize dependencies if in the end you really only do a a single call
<infinisil> Although, dynamic libraries probably get loaded at the start, even if their symbols aren't strictly needed
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<samueldr> V: it's... more nuanced than that and it can be interpreted in either ways IIRC
<samueldr> but I can agree that this graph is garbage for either of AUR and nixpkgs
<samueldr> it lacks context
<V> so many of the things in nixpkgs and AUR are just packages that were added once and will never be updated, or which happen to have unique names
<samueldr> yeah
<samueldr> that's basically the main point of contention imo
<V> and every time someone pulls that graph out and says that nixpkgs is better than the rest I wince a little
<samueldr> tbf, it also lacks other context
<samueldr> e.g. it's lacking a couple of attrsets that are not recursed into
<samueldr> but that's things that generally are not "packaged" in other distros!
<samueldr> so you'd need an *area* rather than a point for Nixpkgs
<V> right, it also contains chunks of other entire package repositories
<gchristensen> I think the real thrust of the message, to me, is "its fairly big and fairly up to date" and not so much about claims about specifically ofbeing better
<gchristensen> but thats just what I see in that
<samueldr> yeah, but you know, stats you can make them say anything
<samueldr> Nixpkgs is bloated
<samueldr> Nixpkgs cannot be maintained, it has too many packages
<gchristensen> yeah
<samueldr> RubyGems is the perfect distribution sweet spot
<samueldr> ;)
<gchristensen> :D
<infinisil> strace -e trace=file -z curl 2>&1 | rg '"(/nix/store/[^/]*)' -or '$1' | sort -u | xargs du -hcd0
<infinisil> 22M
<infinisil> nix-store -qR $(which curl) | xargs du -hcd0
<infinisil> 24M
<infinisil> Soo, not too great of savings
<infinisil> What if you iteratively tried to remove dependencies and tried it without each of them..