worldofpeace_ changed the topic of #nixos-dev to: #nixos-dev NixOS Development (#nixos for questions) | NixOS stable: 20.03 ✨ https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixos-20-03-release/6785 | https://hydra.nixos.org/jobset/nixos/trunk-combined https://channels.nix.gsc.io/graph.html | https://r13y.com | 19.09 RMs: disasm, sphalerite; 20.03: worldofpeace, disasm | https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-dev
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<Mic92> Low inodes? zfs ftw :)
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<gchristensen> Mic92: I know, right? :)
<Mic92> Also I am keen on trying bcachefs as soon as it gets snapshot support: https://bcachefs.org/
<adisbladis> Mic92: What's the current state of bcachefs?
<Mic92> adisbladis: raid, native encryption, compression, checksumming, eraesure coding is supported
<Mic92> Can't tell much about it's stability
<Mic92> What I like about it, is its comparable low code complexity compared to zfs/btrfs.
<Mic92> For example do this: lsmod | grep zlua
<gchristensen> lol yeah that is a Thing.
<Mic92> Why does my filesystem needs a lua interpreter?
<Mic92> It's not even used by anything.
<gchristensen> so you can write and run complex ZFS operations atomically :)
<gchristensen> maybe I should have made that one an (:
<Mic92> or deadlock my system because of some endless loop.
<Mic92> *inifinite
<gchristensen> endless loops won't deadlock your program, they have a somewhat conservative limit to their execution
<Mic92> At least something. My main uses cases of zfs is still its stability and snapshots. My machines crash sometimes because of kernel stuff that I do...
<gchristensen> no, if you want to deadlock your system with it you'll have to call gsub a bunch of times
<gchristensen> (see the end of this readme https://github.com/cyberitsolutions/cyber-zfs-backup)
<gchristensen> I think it'd have been smarter to let the zfs channel programs run as root, and use an ioctl or something to take a lock during the execution and keep lua out of the kernel
<Mic92> Or if you really going for the lua way at least compile it to ebpf.
<adisbladis> Mic92: I just remember koverstreet submitting some patches to mainline and the discussion turning into a cluster ****
<adisbladis> Since then, nothing popped up on my radar re bcachefs
<Mic92> I won't go upstream before the on-disk datastructures are final.
<adisbladis> Mic92: This was about introducing some new type of lock iirc
<Mic92> adisbladis: are you on the kernel ml?
<adisbladis> Mic92: No
<puck> Mic92: ZCP exists on platforms other than linux, and was actually introduced in illumos
<Mic92> puck: I know. Still sucks.
<puck> Mic92: so using eBPF is out of the question, never mind that running lua in the kernel isn't that crazy tbh
<puck> i'd rather have lua over eBPF for this, to be completely clear
<Mic92> I mean I don't notice it actually because I am not using.
<puck> (also the lua interpreter has been modified to stop after N instructions, and M memory)
<gchristensen> I wish it was atomic in ways I care about, like either fully succeeding or having no effect
<gchristensen> instead of the borrowing the word atomic to mean exclusive write lock
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<JJJollyjim> oh jeez i was reading scrollback and saw "kernel ml" and my brain filled in "kernel machine learning"
<gchristensen> you mean the way they decide to backport patches?
<JJJollyjim> i'll take lua over that
<JJJollyjim> lol
<JJJollyjim> Oh no this is real
<gchristensen> well that feels like a highlight of my morning
<eyJhb> JJJollyjim: Is Kernel Machine Learning real?
<JJJollyjim> Not in-kernel machine learning
<JJJollyjim> but machine learning for classifying patches on lkml, apparently
<JJJollyjim> Yeah, so a lot less cursed than my brain jumped to :P
<gchristensen> it is fairly cursed
<eyJhb> Like, 6 out of 10 cursed
<eyJhb> But if you go from 0 to 10, where to being the code talyz sent you yesterday gchristensen ?
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<gchristensen> I'd give you a number but it would probably be redefined to mean something else
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<Mic92> Oh Julia Lawall, I met her once on a conference.
<Mic92> (in the lwn.net article)
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<talyz> eyJhb: fromElisp? 11
<JJJollyjim> omg
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<eyJhb> The thing yesterday regarding the CTF challenge thingy that gchristensen wanted to throw you out on your ass for? :
<eyJhb> :p
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<talyz> eyJhb: I think you have me confused with someone else, cause I have no idea what you're talking about :p
<eyJhb> tazjin and talyz, you two stop having names that look alike. I know the difference, but I don't register it :(
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<tazjin> eyJhb: I refuse to yield!
<tazjin> [4:04:56 pm] [NickServ] Registered : Jan 27 16:56:23 2010 (10y 25w 3d ago)
<eyJhb> :( You just have to accept me getting confused then. Which is really sad, I have afterall met with talyz :p
<gchristensen> I dunno tazjin you won't win that one: Registered : May 18 20:51:09 2009 (11y 9w 4d ago)
<gchristensen> :P
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* gchristensen just needs to go kill that machine
<tazjin> gchristensen: fortunately there's a larger edit distance between tazjin and gchristensen :p
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<gchristensen> that was talyz's date
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<talyz> :D
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<JJJollyjim> 7y 11w
<nijzat> talyz: I challenge you to a duel
<talyz> It'll probably be hard to switch my nick after having used it for about 15 years :p
<JJJollyjim> i am little baby
* nijzat pets JJJollyjim
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<eyJhb> nijzat: perfect
<eyJhb> zylat:PERFECT :D
<eyJhb> Just, STAY now :p
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<talyz> nijzat: the nix duel of the nicks
<gchristensen> oh no
<infinisil> Idea: What if we pranked everybody on April 1 by changing all our nicks to look almost identical :P
<marek> to gchristensen? :)
<makefu> gchristensens
<lewo> gchistsuite
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<adisbladis> infinisil: I'm in a channel where we have a yearly tradition to switch nicknames to a 4 letter one. The two first letters from your forename and the two first letters from your surname
<infinisil> Hehe neat
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<adisbladis> tazjylin: Perfect
<adisbladis> infinisil: I'm pretty happy that channel is not on freenode tbh
<adisbladis> That would be annoying
<infinisil> Yeah, with nick changes being per-network
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<ajs124> hah! I knew there was a reason to keep around this old e-mail address I haven't really used in 8 years!
<ajs124> I just checked my freenode nick info and I used it there and never changed it.
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<{^_^}> #93659 (by ju1m, 9 minutes ago, open): nixos/security.pass: provisioning GnuPG-protected secrets through the Nix store
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<makefu> Mic92: ^ this seems to be very similar to sops, no?
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<Mic92> makefu: indeed.
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<Mic92> However I have systemd integration on the roadmap as well.
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<makefu> and the cloud secrets management is included as well as sshd-key-as-gpg-key
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<doronbehar> Hey all, there's a sort of "hot argument" at #89453 I think someone should get involve inorder to cool things down. I tend to agree with the PR author but I'm not strongly opinionated.
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/89453 (by c00w, 6 weeks ago, open): Add vend support to go-modules
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<gchristensen> cc adisbladis ^
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<c00w> doronbehar: for context #93624 is also basically the same conversation
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/93624 (by zowoq, 13 hours ago, open): buildGoModule: allow modSha256
<gchristensen> modSha256, mega-hashes are fairly brittle, breaking over time
<c00w> and honestly #86282 + like 4 issue threads.
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/86282 (by c00w, 12 weeks ago, open): Migrate some go builds from buildGoPackage to buildGoModule
<c00w> doronbehar: also thanks for noticing + helping, I'd basically given up a month ago when it feel apart.
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<edef> broadly i don't *really* think the existing vgo2nix impl is the way to go
<Mic92> c00w: Sorry I lost your progress out of sight
<Mic92> c00w: looks like you fixed everything?
<edef> but building new tooling off golang.org/x/tools/go/packages + golang.org/x/mod/module is not hugely difficult
<edef> we have such a tool internally at Mutable, but it relies on https://code.tvl.fyi/about/nix/buildGo, and i haven't had the time to make it more robust and publish it
<Mic92> edef: does it makes those definitions automatically?
<Mic92> Otherwise it will be too much work to maintain it for our go packages.
<edef> Mic92: this is what the definitions my tool outputs look like https://clbin.com/YhPH4
<c00w> Mic92: I'm not really a good person to answer that. My current status is "believe reviewer will change acceptance criteria forever so I've given up". AFAICT there are no bugs in the current code any one has pointed out, so it should be mergable.
<Mic92> c00w: looks good to me. Last time I looked there were still some unresolved issues.
<Mic92> It's a big project so its sometimes hard to keep track of every change people do.
<Mic92> In fact I also forgot that your PR existed
<c00w> Mic92 - nw, I think you've always been a good reviewer. I've also basically ignored that PR for a month so I can't judge anyone else for slowness.
<infinisil> gchristensen: What if these mega-hashes are allowed, but only for directories of unpacked sources
<infinisil> Like a set of fetched and unpacked zips, 20 of them in a folder
<infinisil> This wouldn't be brittle then, and it means you don't need to provide all those hashes, but only a single one
<Mic92> gchristensen: In my opinion having a single hash is better than big generated expression.
<Mic92> Because how do I know nobody manipulated those without re-running the generator again.
<Mic92> I mean for got its still a manageable size, but nodejs is a night-mare
<edef> for Go there's the sumserver
<infinisil> Mic92: I don't get that reasoning
<edef> so you can verify that the hashes match
<gchristensen> what are you optimising for where that is better? when I consider it better, I'm optimising for getting the same result later, and I've found those megahashes to be not good at that
<qyliss> example: cargo-vendor regularly makes slight changes to the big vendor directory it produces
<edef> (unfortunately, they use a different hash format that we don't interoperate with)
<Mic92> infinisil gchristensen : If somebody updates pkgs/development/node-packages/node-packages.nix they could all kinds of shenanagins in it.
<Mic92> And it's a nightmare to backport
<qyliss> Yeah node-packages.nix isn't in a good place
<gchristensen> I understand that for sure
<infinisil> Yeah node-packages.nix is not very nice, but that's just because it's a single expression used by many packages
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<infinisil> Wouldn't be bad if every package had its own one
<Mic92> well we cannot have many packages it would just explode nixpkgs in size and evaluation time
<infinisil> (wouldn't be bad in that way at least, would be bad in other ways)
<gchristensen> :D
<qyliss> We have had problems again and again from programs that download something, do some computation from it, and then produce a supposedly canonical output
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<Mic92> Well for go it's now literally the source code of each dependency without extra.
<ryantm> It would be acceptable if you didn't have to check that every URL isn't some random URL thrown into a 1000 line change.
<qyliss> Mic92: can the layout change?
<qyliss> The problem with node-packages.nix isn't even so much that it's one file, it's that npm will update random unrelated packages when you ask it to add a new one.
<infinisil> ryantm: Would be interesting if nixpkgs only allowed auto-generated expressions from CI. So e.g. we'd have a job that runs every week that updates node-packages.nix
<infinisil> People can't update it themselves
<Mic92> qyliss: Unlikely it has been standardized by go itself and other third-parties are relying on it
<qyliss> Mic92: that's good!
<infinisil> ryantm: Then we don't need to be worried about 1000-line changes having something malicious in them
<Mic92> qyliss: I am more worried about rust to be honest. They break there layout...
<infinisil> s/1000/these 1000/
<qyliss> Mic92: yes me too
<qyliss> and fetchpatch
<ryantm> infinisil: Yeah, that would work too!
<qyliss> (although we "fixed" that by pinning an old fetchpatch)
<Mic92> If the tool is not too complex the nixpkgs community can maintain it.
<qyliss> I don't think that's a good solution
<qyliss> because it's so hard to notice impurity
<qyliss> when the output changes, nobody even notices at first
<Mic92> Is hard to test though? I thought one could just use nixpkgs as a groundtruth
<qyliss> no matter how easy it is to test it still feels like throwing away a big advantage of nix, because it's not _guaranteed_
<Mic92> I would say it's close enough. I have never seen any fetchpatch to break.
<Mic92> Other instances might be different though
<qyliss> the reason I use Nix is so that I don't have to worry about "close enough"s
<qyliss> fetchpatch breaking: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/59422
<{^_^}> #59422 (by bobvanderlinden, 1 year ago, merged): patchutils: 0.3.3 -> 0.3.4, keep 0.3.3 for fetchpatch
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<Mic92> c00w: hit me up in a few days if nobody reacts to the go modules thing I will have a look again
<c00w> Will do
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