gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-dev to: NixOS Development (#nixos for questions) | NixOS 19.09 is released! https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixos-19-09-release/4306 | https://hydra.nixos.org/jobset/nixos/trunk-combined https://channels.nix.gsc.io/graph.html | https://r13y.com | 19.09 RMs: disasm, sphalerite; 20.03: worldofpeace, disasm | https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-dev
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<aszlig> hm, haven't followed this since a while, but is the goal to get rid of the perl test driver in 20.03?
<aszlig> also worldofpeace, thanks for pointing out that issue
<worldofpeace> aszlig: yes
<worldofpeace> the documentation has been updated to only be the python driver too
<aszlig> worldofpeace: okay, so essentially i need to rewrite all my tests to upgrade to 20.03, right?
<samueldr> as an external user of the tests?
<aszlig> yep
<aszlig> and i do have a whole lot of them
<samueldr> hmmm, it might be too much to drop it *now* for external users
<samueldr> but it would be a good idea to `trace` a deprecation with a date
<aszlig> so maybe a deprecation warning would be a good idea
<worldofpeace> can you comment on https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/72828 aszlig samueldr ?
<{^_^}> #72828 (by tfc, 12 weeks ago, open): nixos/tests: Leftover tasks towards unified Python integration tests
<worldofpeace> The plans there were to 'Drop Perl test driver'
<aszlig> oh sheesh :-D
<worldofpeace> yeah, we're not going to do that
<aszlig> just counted the amount of tests of all my active projects: 297
<samueldr> the solution is to be less active, aszlig
<aszlig> haha, well... or just don't update to 20.03, but i think that's not an option either
<samueldr> (that was obviously a joke)
<worldofpeace> aszlig: I don't think there's any reason the testing driver shouldn't continue working until a further date, so I believe it should be left intact
<samueldr> another option is for it to be extracted into a component that you could import in your projects, not sure how problematic it can be
<worldofpeace> samueldr: so what do you think of makeTest having a `usePerlDriver` that defaults to false? testing.nix and testing-python.nix are currently the same
<aszlig> worldofpeace: well, at some point i think getting rid of the perl implementation would be okay, since keeping the code rotting around isn't going to make things more maintainable
<worldofpeace> aszlig: I don't think the two drivers should live together
<aszlig> worldofpeace: well, even if it's like "if you upgrade to 20.03 and want to keep your existing perl tests until 20.09, please use import <nixpkgs/lib/legacy-perl-testing-driver-ultralong-path-because-dont-use-and-will-be-removed/make-test.nix>", it would be fine as well =)
<aszlig> which reminds me... i should rebase the video stuff someday
<aszlig> do we already have a way to put build failures into a CAS in hydra?
<aszlig> hm... never mind, we don't
<worldofpeace> ^ thanks aaron
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<jtojnar> could we mark inline python code with a decorator (in JS you can do foo`text`)
<jtojnar> so we would have py ''code''
<jtojnar> and editors would recognize that python syntax is between the quotes
<jtojnar> we could also have md and db for docbook and markdown
<samueldr> /* =py */ '' '' or some other special comment?
<gchristensen> zimatm and I were talking about that yesterday actually, adding ```lang ... ``` to the language.
<samueldr> it'd be interesting to also add a heuristic for "in a [:alpha:]Derivation parameter? assume bash"
<samueldr> (in the IDE parsers)
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<domenkozar[m]> pff, looks like cachix will serve 10TB+ in february
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<arianvp> domenkozar[m]: nice
<aanderse> ping FRidh grahamc worldofpeace about RFC 0050: https://poll.disroot.org/8lXUangUAt2jNR5q
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<arianvp> guix package --list-generations shows a summary of what was done in each generation
<arianvp> coool
<arianvp> we should steal this
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<infinisil> arianvp: What does it look like?
<Nyanloutre[m]> I have an issue with medias from remote server not being downloaded on the local server. I wanted to know if anyone got the same error here.
<Nyanloutre[m]> Hello, I am trying the mastodon pull request. Does anyone else uses it ?
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<drakonis_> arianvp: somebody's been watching the guix talk
<qyliss> Yes I think pbb (the author) had that
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<{^_^}> firing: ChannelUpdateStuck: https://status.nixos.org/prometheus/alerts
<{^_^}> resolved: ChannelUpdateStuck: https://status.nixos.org/prometheus/alerts
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<Profpatsch> I’m really not sure why we would remove the perl test driver at all. It works and people depend on it.
<Profpatsch> Maybe when it starts bitrotting and nobody wants to maintain it anymore.
<Profpatsch> But I don’t think that’s the case.
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<{^_^}> #71684 (by tfc, 14 weeks ago, merged): nixos: add python testing support
<Profpatsch> infinisil: yes, I don’t think that was a necessary change.
<Profpatsch> But it’s even less clear to me why the perl driver needs to be removed now.
<infinisil> Necessary no, but it makes sense
<Profpatsch> I’m not arguing about that
<Profpatsch> I don’t know any perl and I still don’t think it makes sense tbh. But I’m not arguing about that.
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<aanderse> i'm inclined to agree with Profpatsch here... if people have a bunch of custom tests they aren't going to be happy to have the perl driver removed immediately
<aanderse> maybe wait a release or 2?
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<andi-> That is also one of my concerns... I guess we will have the argument that it was never a public API.. like nothing ever is…
<aanderse> i don't think it is a problem to eventually drop it. it really isn't that big a deal to migrate to python. time is the real concern. give people some time. let them know with 20.03 it will be dropped so they can plan accordingly.
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<Profpatsch> > it really isn’t that big a deal to migrate to python
<{^_^}> error: syntax error, unexpected $undefined, expecting ')', at (string):277:14
<Profpatsch> who are we to tell people that? What if they have a thousand tests? That takes *days* of completely unnecessary work
<Profpatsch> Why not keep things that work working.
<Profpatsch> It should support all different kinds of argument parsing now, with a sane default.
<Profpatsch> I think it might be ready for upstreaming
<worldofpeace> Profpatsch: umm, I at least don't disagree with you. And the author agrees with that
<adisbladis> Profpatsch: OTOH we're an open source project.. If someone wants to maintain the perl testing infra they could step up and do so.
<adisbladis> I don't think we should keep things around because someone out-of-tree maybe has tests they dont want to port
<adisbladis> We already have waaay to much cruft in nixpkgs.
<infinisil> +1, and people can always use older nixpkgs versions still
<{^_^}> firing: ChannelUpdateStuck: https://status.nixos.org/prometheus/alerts
<adisbladis> I think the old perl testing driver could easily be extracted into a separate repo if anyone cares that much about it.
<adisbladis> But that's not something I think we should do. It should be up to whoever wants to use it to do so.
<adisbladis> My 2 cents: Keep it around for a release with a deprecation warning and a changelog entry and then kill it with fire.
<worldofpeace> adisbladis++
<{^_^}> adisbladis's karma got increased to 29
<niksnut> exactly, in the future these should be separate flakes (applies to the python test driver as well)
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<Profpatsch> niksnut: Wouldn’t that lead to a bootstrapping problem?
<Profpatsch> Or at least it’s strange if parts of the build graph leave nixpkgs, just to be imported again.
<Profpatsch> aka the test driver needs nixkpgs, but nixpkgs needs the test driver.
<Profpatsch> Not sure this improves the situation.
<niksnut> it can be an overlay
<niksnut> overlays don't depend on nixpkgs directly
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<Profpatsch> What if derivations reference tests?
<Profpatsch> (which they do)
<niksnut> reference tests how?