samueldr changed the topic of #nixos-dev to: #nixos-dev NixOS Development (#nixos for questions) | NixOS 19.09 is released! https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixos-19-09-release/4306 | https://hydra.nixos.org/jobset/nixos/trunk-combined https://channels.nix.gsc.io/graph.html | https://r13y.com | 19.09 RMs: disasm, sphalerite | https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-dev
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<ivan> nix-repl> ''''
<ivan> "${hello}"
<ivan> nix-repl> ''''${hello}''
<ivan> ""
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<gchristensen> yep
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<ashkitten> what
<ashkitten> how does that work
<ivan> '' is how you escape ${ inside a '' :-)
<etu> ,''
<etu> iirc
<etu> Nope, we didn't have that one under that name
<gchristensen> ,escape''
<{^_^}> '' two single quotes: ''' bash curly bois: ''${} newline: ''\n tab: ''\t any character x: ''\x ''
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<ekleog> Thoughts about releases and backporting: I feel like we should split the “release” set into what we really support as stable, and what we don't. Things like linux-latest, non-ESR firefox, or other programs for which backporting security patches would be too much effort should not necessarily be unavailable from the release channel, but just be marked as “this is unstable” over there. Any
<ekleog> thoughts on the idea?
<ekleog> ie. something like `meta.stable = (true|false);`, which would default to `false`, and to install a package on a nixos release you'd need to do like with `allowLicenses` or similar
<infinisil> ekleog: During the hackday there was a meeting for improving the release process, and one thing we discussed was to somehow assign priorities to packages
<infinisil> Which then get used to decide how to focus the effort, for issue, prs and hydra failures
<infinisil> Similar to your idea
<FRidh> nixpkgs-unstable is not being updated despite several successfull evaluations
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<ekleog> infinisil: Right, missed that meeting, thanks for the feedback :)
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<worldofpeace> infinisil: I think we'd call this critical chain released packages. From an outside perspective these packages get expedited support and we can say we guarantee this, and if there's an issue with them before or during the branch off the release can't happen until they're in good shape and qa'd
<infinisil> worldofpeace: Hm yeah, but I'd say the channel constituters are there for this
<worldofpeace> infinisil: there's definitely things missing from the channel constituants that should be there, and I'm not sure you could represent everything through this because it can become manual
<infinisil> worldofpeace: How would a set of things blocking a channel not be manual?
<infinisil> And I don't think it's hard to add more of those, looks like nixpkgs/pkgs/top-level/release.nix is for that
<worldofpeace> I meant like we're tracking a ux breaking bug in firefox but the channel constitutant firefox test isn't going to break to block the channel because of this
<infinisil> Soo we should improve our firefox test to do more image detection? :P
<worldofpeace> But that's literally impossible, you can't write a test as fast as a program deteriorates to block a channel. it would someone manually noticed the thing and it's an issue on github
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<ashkitten> gchristensen: that escape pattern is absolutely awful ngl
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* gchristensen shrugs
<ashkitten> it's just confusing
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<tilpner> worldofpeace: Regarding your comment on rfc 55: I agree that the committer process needs more transparency, and a process, but I'm not in any position to fulfill either of your demands
<tilpner> worldofpeace: It would be inconsistent of me to mandate public announcements when the current nixpkgs-committers team isn't public, and making it public is far out-of-scope
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<worldofpeace> Can there be "public" announcements that are only visable to all members of nixpkgs-committers?
<tilpner> I have no idea what you people do :)
* tilpner is not part of nixpkgs-committers
<tilpner> Do you use the team discussion tab?
<tilpner> I assume the notifications would be annoying people similarly to discussion in nixpkgs-maintainers
<worldofpeace> Well I guess the point of it is to notify everyone so they all should get notifications
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<infinisil> tilpner: (Psssht, sneak peek of the totally active discussion board: https://paste.infinisil.com/5WN_hUjthc.png )
<worldofpeace> And tbh, is nixpkgs-commiters really private? Like the actual membership is pretty easy to figure out.
<worldofpeace> lol, seeing my github status out of context infinisil
<tilpner> TBH, I'm sort-of hoping that niksnut or other super-admins can just switch that team to public on a whim (read: without RFC)
<tilpner> worldofpeace: I don't really see the point of notifying just other committers :/
<worldofpeace> So I guess from https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/55#issuecomment-542119456 it can be made public to other teams such of nixpkgs-maintainers.
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<niksnut> I don't know of any reason why it should be private
<niksnut> but I also don't think we should be using it for team discussions
<tilpner> worldofpeace: I guess my point is that I will not be able to make progress on those points on my own, because they both touch on issues I considered out-of-scope
<worldofpeace> I honestly don't know how you go about a change like this when you can't grant or remove commit access with transparency. It's almost like being transparent about one thing in a specific circumstance, where someone is inactive.
<worldofpeace> while totally reasonable, I kinda leaves my conflicted because I'm conflicted about the current situation.
<worldofpeace> atm, I'm not sure I can formulate an actionable request tilpner. I might need more time to think on this.
<tilpner> worldofpeace: I'm all for more transparency, but that's not the core point of this RFC. It doesn't need to provide any transparency, all it does is cull commit bits
<gchristensen> I don't think we need an RFC to make the commiters list public
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<tazjin> gchristensen: I can now do the popularity count for an entire Nix channel in ~10 seconds
<tazjin> is there a way I can see all historical commits a channel was at?
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<gchristensen> neat!
<gchristensen> btw nixpkgs-contributors is public now, worldofpeace
<worldofpeace> cool, that should have been done anyway.
<tazjin> andi-: excellent, thanks
<andi-> tazjin: thank graham for doing that. I think we have long needed an "official" list of channel bumps. Not sure if hydra qualifies as that.
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<clever> gchristensen: did it punch itself? lol
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<cransom> i used to work for a factory that would get holidays orders that involved glitter. it took months before the aerosolized glue and glitter particles got covered up by the regular grime again.
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<clever> cransom: ive heard it refered to as the herpes of arts&crafts
<cransom> sure is.
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<infinisil> Aw, seems like environment variables set in `environment.variables` aren't available without restarting the x session
<infinisil> I think it's supposed to not need that
<gchristensen> I don't think it can?
<gchristensen> since it is set in the profile
<infinisil> gchristensen: I don't see how that would make it an impossibility
<infinisil> Looking into it a bit more
<infinisil> The shell would actually source the new env vars
<infinisil> But it doesn't because __NIXOS_SET_ENVIRONMENT_DONE is set
<samueldr> would that propagate to sub-processes?
<samueldr> (I don't think so)
<infinisil> And that's set because /etc/profile is sourced when the xsession starts
<infinisil> I guess it can't apply the new vars for the session without restarting the session (which makes sense), but it could certainly do it for shells
<infinisil> samueldr: And in shells it would propagate to sub-processes I'm pretty sure
<infinisil> Maybe after /etc/profile gets sourced, __NIXOS_SET_ENVIRONMENT_DONE should be unset: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/8a0fdf001129747fa4005148ba2ff671157d52b3/nixos/modules/services/x11/display-managers/default.nix#L46
<samueldr> just tested, and no, doesn't propagate
<clever> there is login vs non-login shells
<infinisil> samueldr: What did you exactly test?
<samueldr> would have been glad to be wrong though
<clever> let me grab my previous notes
<samueldr> (while sleep 1; do echo $X; done) & then setting X in the same shel
<infinisil> samueldr: I'm not sure how that's relevant
<infinisil> But that makes sense, I think the environment is inherited when the process is forked
<samueldr> pretty sure the same rules apply here for propagating vars to existing processes
<samueldr> inherited as a copy of the current state
<gchristensen> you might find the PATH getting long
<infinisil> Ah yeah, but I don't really care about existing processes, I just want my shells to have the new env vars
<samueldr> that's entirely different then :) might have misread your intentions
<samueldr> in this case, yes, clever's bit about login vs. non-login shell could appl
<samueldr> apply*
<infinisil> gchristensen: Oh yeah..
<samueldr> depending also on your bashrc and profile stuff
<samueldr> in which you can... do much stuff to break assumptions
<infinisil> gchristensen: Wait no, in the shell environment file all variables are reset
<infinisil> I mean, it's not cleared, but all vars are set first without propagating the previous value
<gchristensen> really?
<clever> that gist is eluding me.....
<clever> there it is!
<clever> you can see that some things wind up directly in /etc/profile, and are more likely to impact every shell
<clever> and some appear directly in /etc/bashrc
<clever> looks like both /etc/profile and /etc/bashrc are based on options that take raw shell code, rather then explicit vars
<infinisil> Just unsetting __NIXOS_SET_ENVIRONMENT_DONE after /etc/profile is sourced seems like a reasonable thing to do still
* infinisil tries it out
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