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<gchristensen>
infinisi1: ping
<infinisi1>
gchristensen: pong
<gchristensen>
infinisi1: how do I tell {^_^} to ping me?
<gchristensen>
oops
<gchristensen>
infinisi1: how do I tell {^_^} to ping me when vcunat is around
<infinisi1>
,tell should work
<{^_^}>
infinisi1: I'll pass that on to should
<infinisi1>
,tell
<{^_^}>
infinisi1: Use `,tell john Remember to do the laundry` to send this to john next time he's talking in this channel
<infinisi1>
And it mentions your nick in that message so you should get notified too
<gchristensen>
,tell vcunat please ping me (gchristensen) when you're around, w.r.t. your cache slowdown. Please run `curl -I https://cache.nixos.org` a few times, and send me the results (headers specifically)
<{^_^}>
gchristensen: I'll pass that on to vcunat
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<gchristensen>
thanks, {^_^}
<should>
oh right, it doesn't trigger on join
<{^_^}>
should: 2 minutes, 27 seconds ago <infinisi1> work
<samueldr>
(it was me)
<infinisi1>
Yeah, i don't even have access to the joins from the frontend
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<aminechikhaoui>
gchristensen: btw I think the script already had some curl output with the cloudfront headers ?
<gchristensen>
seems they wanted more traces?
<gchristensen>
did I misunderstand?
<aminechikhaoui>
yeah maybe they needed more, won't hurt anyway :)
<gchristensen>
can update the cloudfront.sh to include it :)
<Profpatsch>
gchristensen: On freenode there’s also MemoServ
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<gchristensen>
one patch at a time, the becomes a better and better ban machine
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<andi->
does it learn patterns on it's own yet?
<gchristensen>
no
<andi->
is there a reason it only does nickname bans vs hosts?
<gchristensen>
I hadn't thought about it
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<gchristensen>
some day I'll probably update it to go in and clear the ban-lists for all our channels since botnet sufferers don't really need to be banned forever
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<Profpatsch>
Unpopular opinion:
<Profpatsch>
stdenv should fail if any files remain in . after the build.
<gchristensen>
O.o
<simpson>
Profpatsch: Ha, fun idea.
<Profpatsch>
We need better linters, better introspection mechanisms.
<Profpatsch>
Better builds of docs.
<Profpatsch>
Each package in the core set must contain a manpage or some form of doc
<Profpatsch>
The license files, changelogs and other files should be accessible in the build outputs.
<Profpatsch>
And if possible machine-indexed.
<samueldr>
Profpatsch++
<{^_^}>
Profpatsch's karma got increased to 1
<samueldr>
though, one big flaw I foresee: cargo culting rm -rf * into builds as last steps
<gchristensen>
the rm -rf seems like a low-value thing
<Profpatsch>
samueldr: At least you can see that something is wrong this way.
<gchristensen>
the rest of it seems great
<gchristensen>
I see nothing wrong with stuff in . indicating a bad thing
<gchristensen>
I see nothing wrong with stuff in . *
<Profpatsch>
Maybe saying “nothing left in .” is too indirect. The idea is: Nothing unspecified.
<Profpatsch>
Specified also means: Throwing it away explicitely if you don’t want to keep it in the output.
<Profpatsch>
e.g. by having a list of globs of what you don’t want to keep.
<gchristensen>
this sounds like making work to add work. where do you see the value?
<Profpatsch>
And checking that . is empty is a sanity check.
<Profpatsch>
Right now a lot of pages are missing manpages, leaving folders with docs in . instead of copying them to man.
<Profpatsch>
Or AUTHORS files, Changelogs …
<Profpatsch>
Stuff that’s valuable to have in the output.
<Profpatsch>
It’s similar in value to splitting outputs I’d say.
<Profpatsch>
Or having checks that outputs don’t reference each other if possible.
<gchristensen>
I disagree, these are tasks maintainers should be doing, and adding busywork of rm -rf ./* isn't really fixing it
<Profpatsch>
Well, rm -rfing shouldn’t be able to go into the package set.
<gchristensen>
yes: add the expectation (and verify) that docs get populated, yes: copy over changelogs and stuff, yes: automate parts that are really common in to stdenv, no: I think it is unreasonable to expect the build workspace to be in some very specific state post build
<Profpatsch>
It also helps if new versions introduce new files or move them
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<samueldr>
I understand the intention behind all that, but wow that's busywork :(
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<samueldr>
unless there is tooling that undestands common things, or cleans up make clean make distclean, remove initial source files
<samueldr>
(because AFAIK nothing enforces out of tree builds)
<samueldr>
and then, even removing initial source files is prone to not copying authors, changelogs, etc.
<gchristensen>
and make clean will delete the generated docs
<samueldr>
oh, right!
<simpson>
Profpatsch: The bad news is that (WLOG) Python packagers upstream are terrible about having clean tarballs.
<simpson>
I can see a linter-ish kind of thing being useful, where you explicitly ask for a strict use-all-of-the-tarball mode, but I can't see us comfortably requiring that across all of nixpkgs.
<Sonarpulse>
Profpatsch: In general...I'm all for more rigidity!
<gchristensen>
is it possible to override the S3 endpoint for an S3-based binary cache in Nix?
<LnL>
they are not ever really consistent, one adds a prefix and the other removes it
<gchristensen>
I'm pro reverting the renames
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<clever>
LnL: i noticed that renaming system.stateVersion broke nixops, because the automatic rename modules are not bidirectional
<clever>
LnL: i think you can set the old name, but you cant read the old name, and then nixops needs a big hairy if statement to handle both versions of nixpkgs
<gchristensen>
let's go back
<clever>
keeping the original name seems best in my view
<gchristensen>
+1
<gchristensen>
Dezgeg: merge! merge! merge!
<clever>
and for nixpkgsVersion, i obeyed the deprecation notice, and gave somebody directions based on the new name, where it then failed :P
<gchristensen>
:|
<clever>
so you must use the old name, or you risk it breaking for old users
<clever>
and just put up with the trace from the new code
<gchristensen>
yay Dezgeg
<clever>
bbl
<Dezgeg>
now we just need to document 'renames considered harmful' somewhere
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<gchristensen>
,renames=considered harmful
<Dezgeg>
does some language or popular (stable) library have some declaration of API stability that we could steal?
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<LnL>
rust does have some interesting ideas wrt experimental features
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<LnL>
with that model we could, eg. delete stuff that's in master but not considered stable enough for 18.09
<clever>
Dezgeg: android for example will rarely (if ever?) modify the arguments to a function, and will only delete functions with plenty of warning, and all functions are clearly labeled with an api version it was introduced in
<clever>
Dezgeg: though java has the benefit of allowing method overloading and types to auto-detect which method to call
<Profpatsch>
Oh *crap*
<Profpatsch>
How can it be that I need to run a f* Makefile to build the nixkpgs docs?
<Profpatsch>
That’s a joke, right?
<Profpatsch>
I need to go to bed.
<Profpatsch>
Ah, hm, it is building with nix-build.
<Profpatsch>
I need to go to bed.
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<gchristensen>
Profpatsch: happy to workwith you to make them better.
<samueldr>
I may soon have a nixos newbie that will go through the nixos installation process with me watching for stumbling blocks about the documentation