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<samueldr>
nice
<samueldr>
too bad for people missing out (if any)
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<ashkitten>
ooh pinephone :D
<CodeKiwi>
what is convergence
<CodeKiwi>
oh
<CodeKiwi>
The convergence package features a Beta Edition PinePhone with a more RAM memory (3GB LPDDR3) and eMMC storage (32GB) as well as a compatible USB-C docking bar capable of charging, digital video output, dual USB 2.0 type-A host ports for peripherals (such as keyboard and mouse) and fast Ethernet.
<ashkitten>
it's referring to desktop convergence, as in it has a dock so you can plug in a monitor and keyboard and stuff
<ashkitten>
it makes me sad that "dock" nowadays refers to a brick you plug in, not a thing you actually stand your device on
<CodeKiwi>
fast ethernet? gigabit or bust, next time, pinephone
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<ashkitten>
yeah the ethernet in the dock is 100mbit, because the pinephone only has usb 2.0
<CodeKiwi>
if i can't attach a phone to a helios64 and get full speeds i don't want it
<CodeKiwi>
i don't have one of those yet either :(
<ashkitten>
2.5gbit ethernet?
<ashkitten>
i don't know if there is a phone with that
<CodeKiwi>
anyone have nix on it yet
<CodeKiwi>
phone to gigabit computer to 2.5
<CodeKiwi>
i didn't know 2.5 was a thing until today
<ashkitten>
my home network is 10gbit fiber :D
<ashkitten>
(internally, not internet)
<davidak[m]>
nice
<ashkitten>
i ordered a pine
<davidak[m]>
there are probably phones with fast wifi
<ashkitten>
yeah, there probably are phones with wifi 6 already
<CodeKiwi>
wi...fi...6?
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<ashkitten>
new name for 802.11ax
<CodeKiwi>
i didn't know there was an x
<CodeKiwi>
learning all kinds of things today
<samueldr>
the "dock" is a good standard type-c eDP thingy with a well-supported realtek chip for ethernet
<samueldr>
at $25 it's not a bad price for a known good dongle
<samueldr>
the PD power input is also (imo) at a good location
<Ke>
yes known good is magic
<Ke>
though as mentioned, I also consider pinephone not maybe perfect with their supply chains
<Ke>
so the known good can be something else
<Ke>
like they shipped wrong usb serials and nvme adapters
<Ke>
still I guess pine64 is above average in indie category
<samueldr>
the nvme adapter was fine, the cable was "wrong"... except mine was "wrong" and it's fine
<samueldr>
you just had to fold it over
<samueldr>
(not ideal, but at least it doesn't need to be returned)
<samueldr>
but yeah, the serial thing isn't great
<Ke>
I think one of the nasty parts is that they told that people have been shipped a wrong product and no action needs to be taken, so I actually waited for replacement
<samueldr>
:/
<Ke>
not sure how complicated it would have been to send explicit personal confirmation to all involved
<samueldr>
yeah, consumer relations isn't on their strong points (yet)
<samueldr>
that's one thing people should be aware, going in, that there will be "no software support"
<Ke>
in general I do like that people involved can speak more freely compared to most companies though
<Ke>
like the controlled output from puri.sm makes them seem even more shady
<Ke>
when you know things are wrong, but all you see is their pr
<Ke>
so people are eg. reverse engineering shipping rates etc.
<samueldr>
are people (not reviewers or influencers) receiving their librem5?
<Ke>
yes, but rate is unclear
<samueldr>
I'm glad it was too expensive for me to get one at the time
<Ke>
I personally know one
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<Ke>
my assumption is that their estimate of reaching shipping parity or whatever in february did not materialize
<samueldr>
(they said shipping party... they are having a shipping party) j/k
<Ke>
I actually got a refund, because I got emotionally frustrated with their messaging and delays
<Ke>
I would probably have received mine, if they shipped in order
<Ke>
I was within first 200 orders
<samueldr>
I got somewhat annoyed not even being involved at all other than "mobile non-android linux dev"
<samueldr>
I wouldn't imagine if I had backed it... and saw what is basically an almost equal product being shipped much quicker
<samueldr>
let's not make ourselves any illusions, the i.MxM platform on the librem5 is not miles ahead of the pinephone
<Ke>
it will remain unclear how much bearing the mali400 will have
<samueldr>
exactly
<samueldr>
the main difference where it matters is the GPU
<Ke>
otherwise not, sure
<samueldr>
in the end it might be that the pinephone modem will be even more liberated than the librem modems!
<samueldr>
(because of community efforts)
<Ke>
I don't care about games, but I want to watch videos and I don't want to use special player or special compositor that supports the mali
<Ke>
or to patch everything to support the old interfaces
<samueldr>
I don't really know whether vivante would be better
<samueldr>
it's claimed that the upstream driver already exists and all
<samueldr>
but I don't _know_ :)
<Ke>
well I believe the hw capabilities are more versatile?
<samueldr>
my knowledge stopped mainly at their name and mainline driver status
<Ke>
driver maybe not, but if librem-5 ships enough, drivers probably will happen
<samueldr>
though the A64 and its Mali-400 ships in more than just the pinephone
<Ke>
also if pinephone ships, maybe compositors will really reach out to work on what the mali400 can work with
<samueldr>
so that's kind of an advantage
<samueldr>
well, people involved with phone-first wayland compositors _are_ working with the pinephone (too)
<Ke>
sure
<samueldr>
(I'm about to get more into stage-2 things on the pinephone, so I'll be able to tell more soon)
<ashkitten>
i'll probably be running postmarketos on my pinephone for a bit at least
<ashkitten>
since nixos isn't exactly ready
<Ke>
I'd love a opt-in version of nixos-mobile modules, but that probably would take a lot more effort, I have almost 0 time now with the baby and work
<ashkitten>
an opt-in version?
<Ke>
I guess that's a thing that must happen for nixos inclusion
<Ke>
like not enable all the modules at once
<ashkitten>
well like
<Ke>
it's probably possible right now, but would need to look at it
<ashkitten>
mobile-nixos is mostly just kernel and bootloader stuff for devices that can't natively boot nixos with grub or such
<ashkitten>
anything userspace would be in nixos proper
<Ke>
but if you look at it, there's much more, like adb and usb things etc.
<Ke>
and also a build wrapper that I explicitly do not want
<ashkitten>
i guess, but it's all stuff that would not be merged into nixos proper
<ashkitten>
or probably shouldn't be merged
<Ke>
would be cool to have all that stuff as completely separate modules
<ashkitten>
how would that work, anyways?
<Ke>
but anyway that's a lot of work on top of the insane amount of work already done
<Ke>
like all other modules do, apart maybe from the early stages, that somehow need to replace the current ones
<Ke>
there is probably quite a lot of work there
<ashkitten>
well like, it pretty much needs to build an image with the bootloader and flash it where the phone expects the bootloader to be
<Ke>
and also I believe the current form is there to ease the development
<Ke>
I would not say it's a must, I have done that stuff manually for all my other devices
<Ke>
I use nixos only to generate a bunch of files and then run package them myself
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<samueldr>
I don't understand... they are separate modules, with their own enable options
<samueldr>
maybe one day you'll be able to show us what you mean :/
<Ke>
ah ok
<samueldr>
the build wrappers are also opt-in
<samueldr>
(e.g. the main default.nix)
<Ke>
mean by what?
<samueldr>
by what you asked for
<Ke>
maybe I am just wrong
<samueldr>
by "opt-in version of [Mobile NixOS] modules"
<Ke>
if there is enable already, it's probably what I mean
<samueldr>
if there's a module that is not "enabled" or "chosen", it's a bug imo
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<samueldr>
("chosen" here means something like the system type, where you select by name)
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<Ke>
let's say I have my own nixos-config based on nixpkgs, where I want to make modules available, but not enabled at all, is that possible?
<samueldr>
I haven't verified, but I'm pretty sure the defaults enable nothing
<samueldr>
there are somethings that are "added" to the build, but as long as you don't evaluate them are (I think) mostly no-ops because of lazyness
<samueldr>
(added as in new build outputs to the system.build attr)
<Ke>
the mobile stages?
<samueldr>
yeah
<samueldr>
ah, maybe I'm somewhat wrong, I'd need to check and fix
<Ke>
nice
<samueldr>
*maybe* it does some disabling for the conflicting NixOS things
<Ke>
I wondered, how that could have been possible
<samueldr>
without an enable/disable option
<Ke>
but yes that absolutely makes sense
<samueldr>
but it should still be possible to do with an enable/disable toggle
<samueldr>
I would assume things like `mobile.hardware.soc` end up maybe being required?
<samueldr>
though... thinking about it... maybe not?
<samueldr>
I'd have to check what the state is "no-op" wise with adding the config to a system
<Ke>
well I don't mind device description, if it does not enable anything
<samueldr>
I think they all change metadata used by mobile nixos, and *maybe* the default mobile nixos setup automatically assumes the kernel described there is desired
<samueldr>
they are one of the oldest thing in the whole config
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<samueldr>
though, if anything is "rude" default-config wise, like if it tramples needlessly some configs when important and unused, that would be a bug that needs fixing imo
<Ke>
yes, I only assumed we are not there yet
<Ke>
not sure why
<samueldr>
I ended up delaying it for later, but I actually want to run all my systems "with" mobile-nixos
<samueldr>
either dogfooding the stage-1 fun
<samueldr>
or simply ambiant in the config, without side-effects
<samueldr>
(inclusive or)
<Ke>
"it"
<samueldr>
"it" was explained in the second part of the sentence
<samueldr>
"it" being "dogfooding Mobile NixOS config in my common config"
<Ke>
ah
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<apache8080>
samueldr: have you ever split where the /boot and the rest of the rootfs reside?
<samueldr>
yes
<samueldr>
but that doesn't mean much without knowing the "boot chain"
<samueldr>
which SoC, which bootloader combination
<apache8080>
I am trying a setup where /boot is on a separate disk and the rest of the rootfs is on something else, but I am kinda confused as how to do this with sd-images
<samueldr>
basically, the bootloader has to be able to ue the location where /boot is
<samueldr>
be able to use*
<apache8080>
so I have an nvidia jetson that has u-boot which can boot off of the internal eMMC
<apache8080>
I want to put /boot on the internal eMMC
<apache8080>
and then I want the rest of the rootfs on a SATA drive
<samueldr>
it should be doable... but you have to *somehow* get *a* NixOS booted
<samueldr>
to then do the setup
<samueldr>
you could nixos-install from that NixOS
<apache8080>
so we have a system for building sd-images that boot fine
<samueldr>
nixos-install is not forbidden from the sd image... the sd image *conveniently* allows installing in-place, but it's not the only way
<apache8080>
I was just thinking of taking those sd-image and pulling out the /boot part and putting it on the eMMC then putting the rest of the image on the sata
<apache8080>
and in the configuration.nix I was going to point fileSystems."/" to the sata drive and fileSystems."/boot" to the eMMC
<samueldr>
there is no boot partition... there is a FAT32 partition which is used solely for the raspberry pi
<samueldr>
that should work
<samueldr>
assuming indeed the bootloader will go for the stuff in the eMMC
<apache8080>
as long as there is an extlinux.conf the bootloader will go for it I believe
<samueldr>
I really can't give more details because of the "fun" platform :)
<apache8080>
yeah I understand
<samueldr>
but your plan should be doable
<apache8080>
just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something completely illogical
<samueldr>
I had a raspberry pi with a not-so-dissimilar setup
<apache8080>
appreciate the help
<samueldr>
sd card held /boot
<samueldr>
usb drive held rootfs
<samueldr>
and it's just that... fileSystems configured appropriately
<apache8080>
oh nice, do you have sources online for that?
<samueldr>
but "just" that is hard to get to if you can't boot *something* first
<samueldr>
I don't think I have the sources offline either
<apache8080>
ah ok
<samueldr>
it was an experiment I destroyed quickly because it didn't work well
<samueldr>
(power issues with the external usb drive)
<samueldr>
though, I *do* think I booted to a temporary system (from an sd card image), and did a nixos-install
<samueldr>
hint: on your x86_64 nixos system, you should (also) have nixos-install all the time, available
<samueldr>
it's just... always there with NixOS :)
<apache8080>
ok
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