<samueldr>
the postmarketos porting guide will give a lot of good information and clues
<samueldr>
in fact, if you have a lot of trouble with the initial porting and there is already a port for postmarketOS, it can help check assumptions
<samueldr>
e.g. you could build their port, verify it boots
<samueldr>
then take their kernel, "dirtily" use it, to see if it does any better
<samueldr>
though you could also do this with e.g. a TWRP kernel, but generally the other way around
<samueldr>
take a kernel built with mobile nixos, and boot twrp with it
<jmc-figueira>
Alright, I'll start there then. Thanks for the info
<samueldr>
don't hesitate to ask questions, here is fine
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<davidak[m]>
samueldr: do you think it would be a good idea to focus in the Getting Started guide for mobile NixOS on the uefi-x86_64 vm with demo example, so people see something working ASAP and can play around and create a config, before getting to hardware? they might be frustrated when they worked hours to get it flashed, just to see it's not ready for daily use or their favorite program is missing. for nixos, we usually
<davidak[m]>
also recommend to try it out in a vm
<samueldr>
maybe!
<samueldr>
until this month I spent basically no time really working on the "final" product, e.g. stage-2
<samueldr>
pretty much all the time was spent on the foundational things to boot to stage-2 in the most sturdy and trusted manner
<samueldr>
so I haven't spent that much time thinking about users and their desired configs
<samueldr>
I think though that there cannot be "a" getting started guide
<samueldr>
it will be different guides for different uses
<davidak[m]>
that seems resonable
<samueldr>
for some people, getting started is getting started with a port
<samueldr>
for others it will be getting started with installing one of the example configs
<samueldr>
and then there's "getting started in making a new config"
<samueldr>
which I think is what you were getting at
<davidak[m]>
i just wanted to check out the current state. it took some time to find out that i can create a vm with
<davidak[m]>
nix-build examples/demo --argstr device uefi-x86_64 -A build.vm
<davidak[m]>
so it would be great if that would be more straight forward and documented
<samueldr>
yeah, to be fair I still don't think there's much to really show yet :)
<samueldr>
but since I'm packaging up plasma mobile, and I believe there's phosh work in Nixpkgs, soon there will be more "something" to show
<davidak[m]>
so i can decide if it's worth to buy a supported device or wait...
<samueldr>
(the examples/demo system is bound to go away)
<samueldr>
davidak[m]: more importantly, there's no per-device features support matrix yet!
<samueldr>
tell me, at a glance, which devices support wi-fi!
<davidak[m]>
i guess the best support will the pinephone have?
<samueldr>
at first, yes, as it's trivial to get things working since it's meant to work with non-android linux
<samueldr>
but hopefully there will be enough progress either with mainline qualcomm phone ports, or with my research with vendor kernels
<samueldr>
that it will become much harder to make a choice!
<davidak[m]>
they might have some in stock this month
<samueldr>
I *really* want to make my razer phone 2 my "main" device
<samueldr>
plop it in a docking station, get the eDP out + mouse/keyboar
<samueldr>
mouse/keyboard*
<samueldr>
and with a snapdragon 845, would be quite snappy
<davidak[m]>
do you plan to have a roadmap when you get an overview about users needs?
<samueldr>
to be fair, I have no idea what is going to happen once I'm "done" with the nlnet funding
<davidak[m]>
like when phosh and plasma is generally working
<samueldr>
(to recap, it's a list of milestones, paid on delivery of the features)
<samueldr>
so I'm not even sure I can manage a roadmap once I'm "done"
<davidak[m]>
what is the last milestone?
<samueldr>
there is no real "last" milestone, but left, a couple for the stage-1 software to help with initial installation, then a lot of "hardware enablement"
<samueldr>
e.g. making wifi work, making GPU accel work with vendor kernels, making sms/calls work with vendor kernels
<davidak[m]>
i also thought about funding. since the github funding links to nixos opencollective, maybe the foundation could fund some more months? or you could setup liberapay or something yourself
<davidak[m]>
there should be at least some people that care about further development, especially when they have SOMETHING working on their device
<samueldr>
that's something I know I have to get in order soon~ish
<samueldr>
yes
<davidak[m]>
did you get funding from pine64?
<samueldr>
figure out a way to make it my living wage
<samueldr>
none
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<davidak[m]>
could you estimate what a specific port would cost? people could crowdfund them... for example i'm interested in fairphone2, but i'm not experienced with phones, so it would be more efficient when someone else does it https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_2_(fairphone-fp2)
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<samueldr>
speaking of vendor kernel ports
<davidak[m]>
i guess it would be multiple hundred euros, so too much for a single person to pay
<samueldr>
it really is variable, and depends on whether it can benefit from other work on the topic
<samueldr>
e.g. if there is another snapdragon 801 device well supported, it's likely to be *trivial enough* to be mostly an issue of having access to the hardware
<samueldr>
because generally my experience has been that on the same SoC, things generally are close enough
<samueldr>
now, mainline ports, that's a whole other story
<samueldr>
but still similar, if there are other devices with mainline ports on the same SoC, it starts you up real good
<samueldr>
though, unrelated to your actual question, the snapdragon 801 is armv7, which is not a good experience with NixOS for the time being
<davidak[m]>
good to know. not sure if that's up to date info
<zhaofeng>
Ha, I was just about to ask about Phosh. I modified [1] archseer's expressions to build on the current master, but there is something wrong with the session (bear with me) and Phosh refuses to start.
<zhaofeng>
I have a very naive question: Where can I find actually useful logs for "Oh no! Something has gone wrong"? journalctl gives me zero useful information ("Entering running state" then "Could not find the icon 'computer-fail-symbolic'" for the error screen)
<zhaofeng>
However, if I start Phosh with `phoc -E /nix/store/xxxx-phosh/libexec/phosh`, I see the Phosh lock screen, but tapping it crashes Phosh, with logs indicating that some settings schema are not installed (understandable as the real session file includes a lot of dependencies).
<zhaofeng>
The device is PinePhone (which had been collecting dust since September last year), with mobile-nixos master.
<samueldr>
davidak[m]: in theory yes, in practice it's more subtle than that
<samueldr>
the reason they state this is that "it needs wayland to be able to run"
<samueldr>
and "wayland" not being a tangible thing
<samueldr>
it really means "it needs the backend phoc is built on, wlroots, to be able to run"
<samueldr>
and wlroots, for all practical purposes here, only supports DRM+KMS
<samueldr>
zhaofeng: sounds like a good question for the upstream phosh/phoc project
<samueldr>
davidak[m]: I have some notes around about 2-3 strategies to work around that, we'll see once I get plasma-mobile done if I have the time to try them
<samueldr>
(some wayland people would get mad about even thinking those ideas)
<davidak[m]>
:D
<samueldr>
I learned a lot about the foundations of wayland compositors last week in preparation for all of this... because I didn't know much beforehand
<samueldr>
zhaofeng: not that I'm brushing you off here, more that I don't know, and would be good things to learn I guess
<samueldr>
so report back with an answer if possible!
<zhaofeng>
Ah, no offense taken at all, I'm just waiting for my Matrix homeserver to join the phosh channel :P
<zhaofeng>
Always fun to debug Matrix issues
<Ke>
being slow is not debuggable issue
<Ke>
afaik that's what it is
<zhaofeng>
No, it's actually a timeout now that I see the log. I can't seem to reach https://talk.puri.sm:8088 from either my homeserver or my desktop :(
<Ke>
also far from trivial one, I bet since it has been very prominently there for ages
<Ke>
I'm on some puri.sm channels at least from kapsi matrix server, so definitely it federates
<zhaofeng>
Yeah, every time I try to join a moderately large room on Matrix, it goes like this: M_UNKNOWN -> wait 5 minutes -> refresh -> works
<zhaofeng>
If someone has an alias for the room, I think I can join through that
<davidak[m]>
zhaofeng: i also get a timeout in browser. maybe they are down or it's the wrong URL?
<zhaofeng>
My bad, it's the wrong URL (the server is delegated to https://talk.puri.sm/_matrix which works), and my homeserver is broken in a weird way *facepalm*
<samueldr>
davidak[m]: for reasons, plasma mobile is in the milestones agreed upon
<davidak[m]>
ok. it also don't look bad
<samueldr>
it's not about deciding "an" interface for Mobile NixOS, it is only about work for porting
<samueldr>
there is no "one" interface
<samueldr>
I don't even know what I'll end up using
<samueldr>
just like NixOS, it is designed so that you're free to use what you want
<davidak[m]>
sure. the phosh pr seem to be close to merge
<samueldr>
yeah
<Ke>
I'd hope that all work be directed towards nixpkgs anyway as an end goal
<Ke>
and use mobile only for staging
<Ke>
but obviously people who do the work should make the call
<samueldr>
any *packaging* work, except for extremely device-specific, happens in Nixpkgs
<samueldr>
I won't be doing the Plasma Mobile things in the Mobile NixOS repo
<samueldr>
anyway it'd be harder for no good reason
<davidak[m]>
good
<samueldr>
though you'll see tools for building Mobile NixOS things not in Nixpkgs... that's because it'd be more than inconvenient to have to sync with Nixpkgs
<samueldr>
(e.g. mkbootimg things)
<samueldr>
in a future, the goal would be that the mobile nixos repo is deleted, that all packaging happens in Nixpkgs outright, and mobile device descriptions are "just" more nixos hardware
<davidak[m]>
perfect
<Ke>
yes
<davidak[m]>
samueldr: was Anbox integration discussed as a milestone? support for android apps would make it much more usable for daily use
<Ke>
I saw some anbox discussions and it seem to me the project in upstream is orphan
<Ke>
wrt. nixos
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<samueldr>
davidak[m]: no, because anbox already works in NixOS proper
<davidak[m]>
oh, nice
<samueldr>
and I'm not working on developing... "generic" software
<samueldr>
I'm working on integration
<samueldr>
(well, except for the whole stage-1 stuff...)
<samueldr>
but yeah, I'd say "works", rather than works
<samueldr>
I think the nixos module is in need of some care and love
<samueldr>
I guess it'll all depend on whether I end up needing android apps or not, whether I'll take a deeper look at anbox or not
<samueldr>
but I did have some success on my x86_64 laptop
<samueldr>
when I was looking to see if it worked
<samueldr>
though I had to run scripts to fix networking
<davidak[m]>
would it be possible to run osmAnd in Anbox and let it use the devices GPS? (in general, for example on pinephone)
<davidak[m]>
or a corona tracing app that uses bluetooth to track people you meet
<Ke>
corona tracing app is uses proprietary api and and newer api, almost certainly off limits
<Ke>
I believe it would be more like months of work
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<Ke>
shouldn't that be stdenv.isx86_64 && is24
<Ke>
not that having extra build inputs that are eventually consistent matters
<superherointj>
Ke. Post on issue.
<superherointj>
If you don't want to post on it. I'll. You make a good point. I don't understand the inner working of this. But I want this right. Because my RockPro64 are breaking in master. :o)
<Ke>
well the harm it does, is it adds build time dep for x86 people that afaik will get omitted as runtime dep
<Ke>
so build is like some milliseconds slower on hydra
<Ke>
anyway, it's eventually correct so I won't bother complaining
<samueldr>
>> My kernel's main integration branch is 'orange-pi-$VER' (this one). No other branch is supposed to work alone. My defconfigs are tested and work on the boards I support. Read the README.md for more info.
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<zhaofeng>
Finally got Phosh to start. wlroots needed to be patched for phoc, and there were some oddities as to how gnome-session finds the session files as well.
<zhaofeng>
I have a question regarding gnome-session. I'm trying to use the upstream's start script to launch phosh in a systemd service (no display manager). At the end of the script [1] it tries to run `gnome-session` in a new login shell to start Phosh itself.
<zhaofeng>
In our wrapper script, the Phosh packages is indeed added to XDG_DATA_DIR (`export XDG_DATA_DIRS='/nix/store/yx653bdwrsccjk6mdmrljiqh0bv9k5vc-phosh-0.8.0/share'${XDG_DATA_DIRS:+':'}$XDG_DATA_DIRS`) so gnome-session should be able to find the session.
<zhaofeng>
However, it isn't able to [2]. In the debug logs gnome-session tries to search some paths that are different from what XDG_DATA_DIRS should contain.
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<ceph3us>
hello, another dreaded rpi4 8gb user...
<ceph3us>
is USB booting just completely broken currently? burning the image onto a USB stick (with appropriate firmware updates, boot order, etc already configured) just gives a bootloop with "No working controllers found"
<ceph3us>
i've seen a couple of references on the appropriate issues/PRs that claim this issue was "fixed" for them by completely unplugging HDMI, but i can tell quite clearly that the device is still bootlooping even without monitors connected