zimbatm changed the topic of #nixcon to: 25-27 October 2018 - London - https://nixos2018.org , organisation is on https://trello.com/nixcon
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<goibhniu> hi adisbladis[m]
<adisbladis[m]> goibhniu: Hi!
<adisbladis[m]> goibhniu: What are the options for frame grabbing you have been looking at?
<goibhniu> a magewell one ~€350, which is what we used last year
<goibhniu> an Elgato CamLink, which gets good reviews ~€150 (or less)
<goibhniu> and then there's the cheap but hacky option of using a LKV373A HDMI extender for ~€40
<goibhniu> I'm tempted to get both of the cheaper options ... but I'd like to have another look this evening
<goibhniu> do you have experience with this stuff by any chance?
* goibhniu -> coffee brb
<adisbladis[m]> goibhniu: Not really... But I live in a location where I can potentially get this kind of stuff for dirt cheap
<adisbladis[m]> I'm trying to find some chinese hdmi grabbing solutions that works with a mainline kernel
<goibhniu> oh! nice!
<goibhniu> well, anything that does UVC should be good
<adisbladis[m]> goibhniu: I can get those LKV373A for ~25eur
<goibhniu> it would be great to have an affordable solution, to make this set up easy for all kinds of meetings
<adisbladis[m]> I'm tempted to get it anyway for home
<goibhniu> yeah, I'm also tempted to get one, just to try it out
<adisbladis[m]> goibhniu: I'll get a few of those then :)
<goibhniu> awesome!
<goibhniu> they can also be used for plugging in all kinds of cameras, so they add a lot of flexibility
<goibhniu> well, any hdmi frame grabber can be used for that
<goibhniu> my current setup is with a rather fancy usb webcam, which is also okay
<adisbladis[m]> Yeah of course, but if they are cheap we can have a few scattered about from different sources
<goibhniu> do you think you can find any other UVC frame grabber options there?
<adisbladis[m]> goibhniu: Seems to be a few around 60eur
<goibhniu> nice! hdmi pass through would be handy, although I think a splitter will do the same thing
<adisbladis[m]> Hdmi passthrough is a different price bracket entirely
<goibhniu> could you send me some details for any of them?
<adisbladis[m]> goibhniu: I'll add it to the trello card
<goibhniu> do you think if you bought them and posted them to me, they'd arrive pretty soon? I can pay for them myself.
<goibhniu> thanks!
<adisbladis[m]> goibhniu: Depends on what I pay for shipping :)
<goibhniu> ah cool, any idea what it would cost to get something here in two weeks or so?
<goibhniu> (just a rough guess)
<goibhniu> ... this could work out well, since you could quickly test them before shipping too
<adisbladis[m]> goibhniu: Anywhere from 10-30 euros depending on shipping company
<goibhniu> that would be perfect
<samueldr> my experiences with an LKV box (for local game capture), you'll need to slap an alternative firmware on that
<samueldr> and it reduces the quality of the image :(
<goibhniu> cool, do you remember how much that one cost roughly?
<samueldr> (the alternative firmware is needed when some features like 1080p aren't enabled in the shipped firmware)
<samueldr> ~50$CAD
<goibhniu> interesting, is it UVC?
<samueldr> nope
<samueldr> you get raw RT(M?)P packets on the ethernet
<samueldr> udp
<goibhniu> ah right, that one, cool!
<samueldr> (not my post, but pretty much the right post to look at)
<samueldr> and 1080p != 1080p
<goibhniu> super! it wasn't clear to me if it could do 1080p from the blog post and comments
<samueldr> 1728×1080@30fps
<samueldr> imho it's best left as a way to multicast on long distances with multiple boxes instead of abusing as a recording device
<samueldr> I also often had issues with the recorded stream
<goibhniu> fantastic, let's avoid that then
<samueldr> the i-frames (iirc, those sending the full state back) sometimes were missing
<samueldr> which caused weird glitchyness in the recorded stream
<goibhniu> ah, I thought it sent an mjpeg stream
<samueldr> h264
<goibhniu> this is great to know
<adisbladis[m]> Lets just get some UVC boxes then so we get proper USB support
<adisbladis[m]> Less weirdness
<samueldr> UVC is probably a much much safer bet
<samueldr> oh, and add to that that if you don't want to see a delayed stream, you have to add a mess of hdmi splitters :) (game capture)
<adisbladis[m]> samueldr: How is hdmi splitters messy?
<samueldr> in a vacuum it isn't but it created a mess of cables I had to hide away
<goibhniu> adisbladis[m]: do you happen to have access to a mac to test on? (They always seem to be fussy.)
<adisbladis[m]> goibhniu: Yeah we have a few at work
<adisbladis[m]> Also pci passthrough to my mac vm should be possible
<adisbladis[m]> pci/usb passthrough
<goibhniu> just to test the output from a mac, we'll be using a NixOS box for capturing
<goibhniu> excellent!
<adisbladis[m]> goibhniu: samueldr: I'm thinking to go with http://www.ezcap.com/article_read_396.html
<adisbladis[m]> Claims to support UVC and 1080p@60
<adisbladis[m]> And costs around 50 euros
<samueldr> (I have no actual experience)
<samueldr> well, except with the LKV box
<samueldr> but as long as it's UVC, it shouldn't cause much issues
<goibhniu> adisbladis[m]: that looks good to me!
<adisbladis[m]> So how many? Anyone else wants some? :)
<goibhniu> adisbladis[m]: if you come across something similar, it might be good to get that too ... so we have a backup
<samueldr> oh, I do have this semi-related video in mind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALfEwOZyhn8
<goibhniu> I'm happy to pay for two and the postage, I can send you the money via paypal if that suits.
<samueldr> the main pain point is basically: it could saturate some usb3 controllers and *then* cause issues
<goibhniu> at least we don't need high frame rate
<goibhniu> interesting video
<adisbladis[m]> Found some chinese reviews, seems ok
<samueldr> the issue could compound, we don't need 60fps for broadcast, but if the source is 30fps and lags a bit, it could cause choppiness by dropping the scheduled frames
<samueldr> don't know if I was able to convey the message properly
<samueldr> (if either part lags a bit)
<samueldr> so ideally, no part should drop frames except obs otherwise it will cause weirdness
<samueldr> (though, choppy video is better than no video!)
<goibhniu> luckily, choppyness also wouldn't even be a problem for us ... it's mainly just going to show slides
<goibhniu> overheating and failing would be terrible though
<goibhniu> one person did show a video from their laptop last year though
<adisbladis[m]> I'll stress test it through a movie or something like that
<goibhniu> adisbladis[m]: do you know if the aluminium case option is much more expensive?
<adisbladis[m]> goibhniu: It seems to be the more common option on taobao actually. That was the one I gave the price for
<goibhniu> lovely
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<goibhniu> adisbladis[m]: will I transfer some money so you can put in an order?
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<adisbladis[m]> goibhniu: I'll order first, we can arrange the money later
<goibhniu> cool cheers! maybe just get one first to test it out
<goibhniu> the good folks on quakenet#obsproject pointed me to https://c3voc.de/wiki/hardware:framegrabber which has some interesting options, including one for ~€85
<goibhniu> that might be a good backup option
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<makefu> i am looking forward to the choice you do. i might just as well but the same device - the nixos support will be fantastic :D
<samueldr> (I think the goal is to have no nixos support, only upstream support)
<makefu> you know what i mean ;)
<goibhniu> it would be awesome to have an affordable device to do this ... every NixOS meeting could be streamed \o/
<makefu> right now i need a kernel-patch for the ezcap usb av-recorder to work
<goibhniu> ah, I could only find two mentions of excap devices on the obs forum, both unanswered questions about issues they were having
<goibhniu> it's nice to see more UVC options around now
<goibhniu> the RPi hats are interesting too
<makefu> yes, that is true. 2 years ago there was literally nothing but ~1k devices,sdcard stream writer and AV grabber with PAL/NTSC
<goibhniu> TBF, we could just package an ffmpeg script that streams the desktop over the network
<makefu> too easy
<makefu> when you can prepare everything you can just start obs and stream your desktop
<goibhniu> yeah, that's an even easier option
<goibhniu> (you can stream from one OBS to another)
<goibhniu> depending on the network isn't ideal either though
<goibhniu> I like how one of the frame grabbers has a big notice on their page "please don't use a HDMI splitter to bypass copy protection" ^_^
<goibhniu> there is also a lovely open hardware option, but it costs ~$450
<goibhniu> hrm, maybe the RPi hats are open hardware too
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