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<Joestar79> is this still the way to install it on OSX to replace brew?
<domenkozar[m]> yup
<Joestar79> let's say I just added pkgs.zsh. Now I can remove brew installed zsh and zsh will just keep working?
<Joestar79> I'm not sure I completely understand what's happening behind the scenes
<domenkozar[m]> Joestar79: if you ran switch, then yes
<Joestar79> yup, it works, thx
<Joestar79> error: opening lock file '/nix/store/wag21ir3lvl05zn2q4kwrhlfyljc9sx8-harfbuzz-2.6.4.drv.lock': Permission denied
<Joestar79> when I get those kind of error I don't know what to do
<Joestar79> probably I shouldn't install that myself, but that gets automatically installed ad a dependency when and if needed?
<Joestar79> after I got that error, I removed the package that was causing it and now I get this weird error: error: the store is not owned by this user, but /nix/var/nix/db is writable
<domenkozar[m]> Joestar79: how did you install Nix?
<domenkozar[m]> via:
<domenkozar[m]> sh <(curl --daemon?
<Joestar79> sh <(curl --darwin-use-unencrypted-nix-store-volume
<Joestar79> the thing is that I could install a certain number of packages without any issue
<Joestar79> then I tried pkgs. harfbuzz and after the error I copy/pasted now the whole system seems not working properly anymore
<Joestar79> even removing pkgs.harfbuzz and running darwin-rebuild switch with the previously working conf, won't work
<Joestar79> drwxrwxr-t 2014 root nixbld 63K Jun 11 15:56 store
<Joestar79> is this normal?
<Joestar79> this has been driving me crazy for a couple of days. I lost count how many times I had to uninstall everything and start from scratch again :(
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<domenkozar[m]> Joestar79: I recommend installing with --daemon
<domenkozar[m]> Joestar79: did you install as root?
<Joestar79> nope I installed it with my user
<Joestar79> should I install it with root?
<Joestar79> --daemon in addition to --darwin-use-unencrypted-nix-store-volume or alone?
<Joestar79> I fixed the problem changing the permission on the store dir
<Joestar79> group: nixbld to admin
<Joestar79> that changed when there was the error building harfbuzz I guess
<domenkozar[m]> you should not install under root, but as a user
<domenkozar[m]> passing --daemon and --darwin-use-...
<Joestar79> I think --daemon can also be enabled in che conf
<Joestar79> later I mean
<Joestar79> setting up user launchd services...
<Joestar79> looks like it is indeed using the daemon, isn't it?
<domenkozar[m]> the installation procedure is much different
<domenkozar[m]> LnL: is single-user install supported for nix-darwin?
<LnL> yeah
<domenkozar[m]> hmm, why is it even useful on darwin?
<__monty__> Afaik it's recommended even.
<__monty__> I know I reinstalled without multi-user because of problems.
<LnL> single-user is default but the daemon has a bunch of advantages if you're a serious user
<domenkozar[m]> what advantages has single user install on darwin?
<Joestar79> so, should I uninstall everything and reinstall one again with both options?
<Joestar79> *once
<LnL> and nix-darwin should elevate most of the pain points that come with a vanilla daemon install
<Joestar79> I mean with --darwin... and --daemon
<domenkozar[m]> Joestar79: that's what I'd recommend, but LnL knows more :)
<LnL> the main argument for a single user install is simplicity
<LnL> easier to uninstall (alltho something less relevant with all the volume stuff)
<LnL> and easier to update nix itself
<domenkozar[m]> yeah now with the volume stuff it seems hard to uninstall either
<domenkozar[m]> how is updating Nix easier? shouldn't nix-darwin handle it either way?
<domenkozar[m]> LnL: hope you don't see my questions as critique of nix-darwin, I'm thinking out loud how to make it more robust for beginners
<LnL> I'm talking about a vanilla install without nix-darwin
<domenkozar[m]> ah yeah, that should also be recommended to use nix-darwin =)
<LnL> heh, well I consider that a 3rd party thing
<domenkozar[m]> and nix upgrade should do the correct thing or instruct how to do it
<LnL> a while back gchristensen brought up the idea of a separate "installer" project which could be the the default and handle a tiny subset of what nixos/nix-darwin, etc. do but just for the nix installation
<gchristensen> yeah
<gchristensen> and that could evolve separately, even to making a gui dmg installer for macos
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<LnL> I really like the idea, just a separate (default) thing that manages the nix installation and configuration for for all platforms in a nice declarative way
<gchristensen> yeah
<__monty__> Would a dmg with an app work? Wouldn't it rather be like a pkg installer?
<gchristensen> I dunno
<gchristensen> I dunno how any of this works, I'm just making stuff up
<LnL> installer is the most straightforward step, but it could include an app that can configure basic stuff
<Joestar79> LnL: well, I don't know if you are interested or consider this a bug, but when something fails the permission of the store dir under /nix gets corrupted
<Joestar79> and I have to manually set the group to admin from nixbld to get it working again
<LnL> does that happen consistently?
<Joestar79> yes
<LnL> usually caused by running nix as root on a single-user install
<__monty__> Shouldn't the group be nixbld on a multi-user install?
<Joestar79> I tired installing a package that doesn't exist
<Joestar79> I ran the install script with my user
<Joestar79> but I probably said yes to use sudo?
<Joestar79> could that explain the problem?
<__monty__> No, pretty sure that's necessary.
<__monty__> I think LnL meant running a nix command using sudo, like sudo nix-env -i whatever.
<LnL> yeah
<Joestar79> that wasn't the case either
<Joestar79> I can reproduce it at will
<__monty__> Wouldn't that change the group to root or admin, rather than nixbld though?
<LnL> if you have a single user instal (without dameon) and run sudo nix-env you'll run into trouble
<Joestar79> let me see if I can reproduce it
<__monty__> I *think* Joestar79 just added pkgs.harfbuzz to their darwin-configuration.nix.
<Joestar79> or if I pressed esc with zsh and it added sudo in front of my command
<Joestar79> _monty_ I learned not to do that and just add pkgs.cargo. That solved the problem
<__monty__> Hmm, then I misunderstood what caused the permissions problem according to you.
<Joestar79> that caused it for sure
<Joestar79> I mean, when I added pkgs.harfbuzz it happened
<Joestar79> I can try again
<Joestar79> sigh, this time it worked
<__monty__> Are you sure you didn't run darwin-rebuild with sudo?
<Joestar79> I have seen lots of voodoo behaviour in the past 2 days though, rather than computer science
<Joestar79> let me check history
<LnL> darwin-rebuild internally should not be using sudo when it doesn't has to to avoid issues with a single user install
<Joestar79> I haven't slept much lately, so this is possible for sure
<LnL> if it does somewhere it's a bug
<Joestar79> 2067 sudo nix-env -qaP | grep -i harfbuzz
<__monty__> Would running it with sudo change the group on the store to nixbld? And is the proper group admin?
<Joestar79> sorry, pressed esc, it was my fault
<LnL> yeah, maybe nix shouldn't be that aggressive about changing ownership
<Joestar79> I must find a way to disable that ESC add sudo thingie in zsh
<Joestar79> I hate that
<__monty__> Is there ever a good reason to run some nix commands with sudo? Maybe they should say something "Are you sure you want to run me as root? Double sure with cherries on top?"
<gchristensen> with multi-user yeah absolutely
<LnL> I think ensuring /nix/store is consistent with /nix/var/nix/db would make sense tho
<{^_^}> LnL7/nix-darwin#188 (by druimalban, 8 weeks ago, open): Enabling the nix daemon seems to change permissions on the store to root
<domenkozar[m]> gchristensen: why did we revert daemon installation from being default? :)
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<abathur> heh
<abathur> the catalina performance issue I've been picking at a little here might have some impact on all of this
<abathur> I did manage to reproduce this by running commands against a single-user install with sudo (or in a shell opened with sudo?)
<abathur> but independently, as I was just playing with the catalina executable assessment system
<abathur> roughly: the catalina assessment system does a server round-trip when each new script/executable in a Nix build runs; single-user nix can opt out of at least the round-trip by adding their terminal App to the Developer Tools exemption in Security & Privacy; this doesn't work for multi-user
<abathur> I've found 2 other ways to opt-out of the exemptions: running the build with sudo, and disabling the assessments with `sudo spctl --master-disable` before running the build
<abathur> the latter two work for both single and multi-user installs, but sudo in single-user mode obviously has the consequences described here :)
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<LnL> domenkozar[m]: that last error in nix#3451 isn't from nix, it's one of the darwin sanity checks I added
<{^_^}> (by domenkozar, 11 weeks ago, open): error: opening lock file '/nix/var/nix/db/big-lock': Permission denied
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<domenkozar[m]> ah thanks, will delete it
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