<sphalerite_>
gchristensen: I know plenty of foss that isn't this terrible :)
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<infinisil>
Whew, this url http -> https rewriter is coming along nicely
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<Leo`>
sphalerite_: Just to understand...
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<Leo`>
sphalerite_: The initial issue was that this bug was happening on one machine and not another, while they had the same code for the derivations.
<Leo`>
And while debugging I noticed this.
<Leo`>
I might have found a fix though.
<Leo`>
I'm still completely clueless about why it sometimes worked but anyway...
<Leo`>
There must have been some cache somewhere... *Shrugs.*
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] bendlas pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vAcnG
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<nixy>
Does anyone have a working .nix file for an MPD configuration? I've been toying with this for a solid hour and keep hitting issues with pulse audio
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<aanderse>
if i need a wireless nic driver and nixos has it with a package name "rtl8192su-firmware" do i simply install that package... or do i specify it in the options somewhere?
<tgunb>
aanderse: i'd guess you add it to configuration.nix
<aanderse>
tgunb: yeah but i mean like... iunno... into some other option other than the system packages?
<tgunb>
see man configuration.nix
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<tgunb>
maybe search for firmware
<aanderse>
biggest thing that jumped out was hardware.firmware
<aanderse>
but i was pretty unsure
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<aanderse>
so thought i'd ask
<tgunb>
well, im a newbie to nix. then maybe ask someone else.
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<nixy>
aanderse: I've never had to do that myself, but hardware.firmware looks right
<aanderse>
nixy: thanks, nice to have a second opinion
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<radvendii>
is there a way to, in my configuration.nix, just copy some file somewhere? I have a .so file I need to be in lib/, and I know it's not good practice to just stick them in there like that, but as a temporary fix it'll do
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<infinisil>
Oh he left already :/
<infinisil>
s/he/they
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<gchristensen>
infinisil++
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<infinisil>
Alright, my url http -> https replacement (and verify) script is now running for all ~30000 urls (http and https) in nixpkgs, let's see what we get
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<infinisil>
Wait no, only 20000
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<infinisil>
Oh that's weird, I get 5000 more urls on my local machine (than on the server) :/ I guess I should write a nice derivation with reproducibility after all
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<infinisil>
Alright what the hell, same nixpkgs revision, same channel, a nix-shell with --pure, but still different results..
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<Havvy>
Still updating the repo. >_>
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<samueldr>
should've made it a race: git cloning faster than a checkout? (possibly!)
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<tnks>
we have a Nix cache (just with nix-serve) running behind a firewall. but when people are working from home and forget to turn on their VPN, the "extra-binary-caches" causes some annoying 5 second timeouts.
<tnks>
is there a way to make the timeout shorter for the extra binary cache?
<tnks>
just as a convenience. Otherwise, I have to change their workflow a bit.
<bhipple[m]>
There's a cmdline option you can pass to tell it to not check any binary caches on a case-by-case basis
<bhipple[m]>
And in nix.conf you can configure `connect-timeout`. See `man nix.conf`
<tnks>
bhipple[m]: cool thanks.
<tnks>
also, I completely missed this man page. I was looking for better documentation on Google, and didn't find this
<tnks>
to bad I can't set the timeout per-cache.
<tnks>
but I understand that that might not be a complexity that's common enough to implement.
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<dnovosel>
Anyone here using dropbox? When I start it from the CLI, it opens a browser. I enter my password, but when I get to the MFA page, and input my code, it says the version of dropbox is too old.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] alesguzik opened pull request #35026: nixos/acpid: add option to log events (master...acpid_log_events) https://git.io/vAcgS
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<pjan>
I started running into a weird issue when running nix-build: whenever I try to build a package (-p), it errors with the following: /nix/store/<<nix-hash>>-shell.drv’ failed to produce output path '/nix/store/<<nix-hash>>-shell'
<pjan>
(e.g. I run `nix-build (--pure) -p vim`
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<pjan>
any idea anyone?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] yuriaisaka opened pull request #35027: pybind11: init at 2.2.2 (master...pr-pybind11-init) https://git.io/vAcrh
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] jtojnar opened pull request #35028: tex-gyre: init at ~2.005 (master...tex-gyre) https://git.io/vAcoI
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<dnovosel>
Ralith: I'm running 17.09, and just pulled the default dropbox install.
<dnovosel>
Ralith: Install was done system-wide. My guess is the package is too old, but then I figured other people using it would have also seen the issue. So I was trying to confirm if others have seen it.
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<dnovosel>
I'm new to NixOS, so although I'm willing to look into what changes need to be made, I'm still climbing that learning curve on figuring out how all the bits fit together.
<Ralith>
updating packages is often just a matter of changing a version number and replacing a checksum or two!
<Ralith>
if you're on 17.09 it may have already been done, of course
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<dnovosel>
Okay, well I guess I'll look into what is needed to try and get that working/patched. Time to learn more I guess :)
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] jwiegley pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vAcKN
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 9025248 John Wiegley: coq: 8.7.1 -> 8.7.2
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<dnovosel>
Amazing, dropbox switched either to/from version numbers to dates, and on their official server, all packages have the same timestamp.
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<dnovosel>
So.. according to the package download for RHEL/Ubuntu, the version that NixOS installs 2015.10.28 is the same.
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<dnovosel>
Anyway, it's late. I'll look more tomorrow. Thanks Ralith for the advice.
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<hyper_ch>
Profpatsch: hmmm, not quite sure what your patch does in rss2email
<Profpatsch>
hyper_ch: What do you think? :)
<hyper_ch>
oh... now I see
<hyper_ch>
I didn't see the delimiters and thought you replace /path/to/sendmail with ''
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<hyper_ch>
the patch hasn't hit unstable-small yet :)
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<sphalerite_>
So I'd like to get the config for my chromebook building faster. One major component that takes a while is the kernel, even though I don't use the nixpkgs kernel. AFAICT it's very difficult to just get a nixos system building with no kernel. Would overriding it to use allnoconfig break anything if it's not actually the kernel I'm booting?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] peti pushed 6 new commits to master: https://git.io/vAcyF
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master b787aac Peter Simons: hackage-packages.nix: automatic Haskell package set update...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 02e8ee8 Peter Simons: haskell-th-lift: drop obsolete override for ghc-8.4.x
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 1f53e71 Peter Simons: haskell-tasty: update override for latest version used by ghc-8.4.x
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<xnaveira[m]>
so i\m trying to get keybase running, i added services = { keybase.enable = true;
<xnaveira[m]>
kbfs.enable = true; }; to my configuration and switched, the switch goes well but the service is not started nor is /keybase mounted, am i missing anything?
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<sphalerite>
xnaveira: I think it might be a per-user service in which case you'll need to log out and back in for it to take effect
<sphalerite>
Just a guess though
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<xnaveira[m]>
yeah i was looking at it and they are systemd user services
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<xnaveira[m]>
do i need to do anything to enable those at a more general level or is systemd user units supported by default? Linus
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<sphalerite_>
xnaveira[m]: no, I think you just need to log out and back in again
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<sphalerite_>
maybe just running systemctl --user daemon-reload would do it too. Not sure about all the little details of how it works though
<xnaveira[m]>
i logout and login and still no luck, i'll keep looking into it, thx
<xnaveira[m]>
actually scratch that
<xnaveira[m]>
they are running
<xnaveira[m]>
now i have another problem, but i now how to solve this one
<xnaveira[m]>
thx
<sphalerite_>
\o/
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<hyper_ch>
hi sphalerite_
<sphalerite_>
sup hyper_ch
<hyper_ch>
sphalerite_: just optimized my zfs backup script a bit more :) and you?
<sphalerite_>
playing with my new vocore
<hyper_ch>
btw, what are chances that I could get my script packaged into nixos?
<hyper_ch>
what's vocore?
<sphalerite_>
a tiny MIPS computer
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<sphalerite_>
hoping to use it for educational purposes. I'm a lab demonstrator for a class at uni which covers MIPS assembly and was hoping to let any students who are interested run their code on real hardware rather than just an emulator
<hyper_ch>
:)
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<sphalerite_>
duncan^: do you know any tiny MIPS computers with good freedom properties?
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<duncan^>
No :(
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<Ke>
very often such marginal systems come only as free as in not having proprietary drivers either
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<Ke>
where as heavily blobbed micro$oft loving rms hating systems have proprietary drivers and at least some free drivers
<Ke>
but the absolute state of the free drivers may still be better than for the system that does not have the blobs
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<jtojnar>
When I try to run nix-repl, I am getting “error: Nix database directory ‘/nix/var/nix/db’ is not writable: Permission denied”
<LnL>
jtojnar: NIX_REMOTE=daemon nix-repl
<jtojnar>
what are the correct permissions for the directory?
<jtojnar>
hmm, great LnL
<LnL>
are you using >=1.12?
<jtojnar>
yes, nix unstable
<LnL>
yeah, that uses the daemon automatically if the db is not writable
<LnL>
nix repl :D
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<jtojnar>
is the unwritable directory expected?
<jtojnar>
it also breaks update-source-version
<jtojnar>
and if I use the env var, it fails on “fixed-output derivation produced path '/nix/store/xxx-source' with sha256 hash 'ccc' instead of the expected hash 'ddd'”
<sphalerite_>
jtojnar: if you aren't a privileged user NIX_REMOTE should be set to daemon
<jtojnar>
is that a change in Nix unstable? it was working fine before
<lejonet>
Hmm, if I have an env in which I have installed a python library, and can import it fine from an interactive python session, but a binary run in the same env cannot import it, what might I be doing wrong?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] peti pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vAcAO
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<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master e7a8ced Peter Simons: liquidhaskell: version 0.8.2.3 fails during Haddock stage
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<sphalerite_>
lejonet: could you be more specific about the commands?
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<Lisanna>
...just found out that I can't run nix-store -qR inside runCommand, since it requires access to /nix/var ):
<sphalerite_>
the need for recursive nix strikes again!
<sphalerite_>
(although in this case you could use exportReferencesGraph AFAIU)
<sphalerite_>
(don't ask me how)
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<Lisanna>
yeah, I've used exportReferencesGraph before
<Lisanna>
...or I could use writeReferencesToFile :)
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<Lisanna>
I've started using a great new pattern... whenever I implement a function, I also implement a bunch of assert-based tests which gate it, so attempting to evaluate the function (e.g., to use it) is only successful if its tests pass
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<Lisanna>
e.g.: let myFun = foo: bar: foo + bar; in assert builtins.isFunction myFun; assert (myFun 1 1) == 2; myFun
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<ben>
any advice/guidance for diagnosing why nix-shell is slow to start?
<Lisanna>
ben nix-shell in general or a specific invocation of it?
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<ben>
Yeah, that's the first thing I need to diagnose, isn't it. :)
<Lisanna>
time nix-shell -p hello --run hello
<Lisanna>
my results: 0.20s user 0.06s system 53% cpu 0.487 total
<ben>
so, in my project i did time nix-shell --run true and got 44 seconds
<ben>
your invocation gets me 3 seconds
<ben>
so "both"
<Lisanna>
what do you mean "in my project"?
<Lisanna>
are you adding things with -p, or do you have a shell.nix?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master ce83cd7 Michael Weiss: android-studio-preview: 3.1.0.10 -> 3.1.0.11
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] primeos pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vAchy
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<ben>
with a default.nix that reduces to { pkgs ? import <nixpkgs> { } }: buildGoPackage { name = ...; goPackagePath = ...; }
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<ben>
(also i'm on os x)
<Lisanna>
so the trivial example is taking way longer than it should?
<ToxicFrog>
Oh dear, it looks like libqtwebkit isn't building on Hydra.
<ToxicFrog>
That explains why my server is trying to build it locally D:
<ben>
trivial buildGoPackage derivation, yeah
<ben>
with a stdenv.mkDerivation, it about matches -p hello time
<ToxicFrog>
I had questions about writing a derivation for a package that depends on Perl (Cone, the Courier mail reader), but that may have to wait until this build finishes sometime tomorrow.
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<sphalerite_>
ben: how long does nix-instantiate shell.nix (or default.nix) take?
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<sphalerite_>
ToxicFrog: maybe work from nixos-unstable instead of master?
<sphalerite_>
ToxicFrog: there's rarely enough divergence that a patch from nixos-unstable fails to apply to master so I basically always use that
<ben>
sphalerite_: <2 seconds, fast
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<Lisanna>
ben could always try strace :)
<sphalerite_>
is that a thing on macos?
<Lisanna>
...oh
<ben>
It's probably spelled differently and I'm not familiar with how :)
<clever>
sphalerite_: mac has dtrace, and it works very differently
<ben>
crud
<clever>
i think it was dtrace, or maybe i'm mixing it up with sun stuff
<ben>
dtrace does tab-complete here ;)
<Lisanna>
ok, better plan: nix-shell supports the standard nix verbosity settings, so try stuff like -vvv or -vvvvv
<clever>
ben: there are also simpler tools like opensnoop and execsnoop
<sphalerite_>
clever: dtrace *is* sun stuff that apple adopted for macos
<clever>
ben: which run dtrace with special args to make it simpler to trace just one thing
<clever>
sphalerite_: ah, that explains why i remember it in both
<sphalerite_>
clever: also Oracle finally accepted licencing it as GPLv2 the other day so it'll hopefully be coming to mainline linux sometime during the next few months!! :D
<clever>
sphalerite_: yeah, i saw the news in #nixos-dev
<Dezgeg>
what do you mean 'mainline' here?
<clever>
sphalerite_: previously, i had seen something about using a linux syscall subsystem on a sun kernel, just to dtrace linux-elf files, lol
<ben>
nix-shell seems to hang exactly at the end of the -vvvvvv output
<Dezgeg>
maybe as an external module, yes
<clever>
ben: run `ps -eH x` while its hung, and find what nix-shell is doing
<clever>
ben: also look at what the nix-daemon is doing
<sphalerite_>
Dezgeg: not in-tree?
<ToxicFrog>
sphalerite_: what's the advantage here? Is the nixos-unstable version building on Hydra but not the nixos-17.09 version?
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<ben>
my ps doesn't know those flags :)) i get the idea
<Dezgeg>
with it duplicating eisting kernel functionality, no (without essentially rewriting it)
<ToxicFrog>
I used to use nixos-unstable so I didn't have to move my channels over every six months, but it had issues frequently enough that I stopped using it. Maybe it's better now?
<sphalerite_>
ToxicFrog: yes, nixos-unstable is based on master but lags behind until a bunch of tests pass
<ben>
no daemon here either
<sphalerite_>
ToxicFrog: you don't need to use nixos-unstable for your whole system to test patches based on it
<Dezgeg>
I suppose the kernel part should be just thrown out entirely and the userspace part to be written to use eBPF
<ToxicFrog>
sphalerite_: but...I'm not testing patches based on it?
<sphalerite_>
Dezgeg: oh :/
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<ToxicFrog>
I don't know what you're getting at here.
<sphalerite_>
ToxicFrog: oh… so what command is causing the qtwebkit rebuild?
<ToxicFrog>
`nixos-rebuild boot`, since I have calibre installed, and calibre depends on libqt5
<ToxicFrog>
And it looks like libqtwebkit does not have a build cached on Hydra, so it's having to build it locally rather than just download the binaries.
<WilliamHamilton>
hi, I'm trying to start a game in nixos. After a whole lot of `patchelf`, I finally sorted out the problems with the libraries; but now I get an error saying that `OpenGL 2.1 support is required!`. My video card supports opengl 2.1, and in my nixos configuration I have ` services.xserver.videoDrivers = [ "nvidiaLegacy340" ];` Are there other values I could try for videodrivers? I'd appreciate any suggestion for
<WilliamHamilton>
debugging the problem further
<ToxicFrog>
Anyways, I need to leave for work now, can look into this more later.
<ToxicFrog>
I've patched a few things but it shouldn't be anything qtwebkit depends on.
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<WilliamHamilton>
sphalerite_: sphalerite_ would you benefit from the entire output, or is there something I should grep for?
<Lisanna>
ah, yep, that'd do it
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] jtojnar opened pull request #35035: common-update-scripts: fix compatibility with Nix unstable (master...update-source-version) https://git.io/vACvT
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] ctheune opened pull request #35036: A (rough but working) way to restart systemd to activate config changes. (master...ctheune-systemd-restart-after-config-change) https://git.io/vACvY
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<sphalerite_>
WilliamHamilton: glxinfo -B should be enough
<WilliamHamilton>
sphalerite_: hmm, I see in the output of that command that I have `OpenGL ES profile version string: OpenGL ES 2.0 NVIDIA 340.104 340.104`
<WilliamHamilton>
so that would justify the lack of 2.1 openGL, I think
<sphalerite_>
WilliamHamilton: just paste the full output of it somewhere.
<clever>
sphalerite_: these crank up the debug on both ld.so and libGL
<sphalerite_>
not sure it will help though. If you're having trouble installing because of size limits, it's a known bug in the installer that it tries to build the system in the tmpfs rather than on the destination filesystem
<clever>
sphalerite_: LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=1 LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH=$APPROOT/lib/dri/ and these force libGL to load from a different dir, and to use software rendering
<clever>
sphalerite_: yesterday, i had to debug libGL, inside electron, with the whole thing patchelf'd to a nonstandard location, so i had 3 layers of debug flags to find and enable, lol
<sphalerite_>
ertes-w: if that's what the problem is, the easiest solution is installing with a more minimal config and then rebooting into it and using nixos-rebuild to switch to the full config
<sphalerite_>
clever: eww electron
<clever>
sphalerite_: the issue was mostly electron trying to dlopen() a dozen things, so ldd didnt find half the deps
<clever>
and libGL also trying to dlopen things
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] primeos pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vACvN
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 76723a2 Michael Weiss: gns3Packages.server{Stable,Preview}: Pin the aiohttp version...
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<ertes-w>
sphalerite_: yeah, i was trying to do exactly that, but nix would refuse to do anything, because it was already at 100%
<sphalerite_>
ertes-w: ah right. Yeah then gcing should solve the issue
<clever>
ertes-w: nix-collect-garbage will delete what it can
* sphalerite_
is looking forward to when nixos-install supports nixUnstable
<clever>
sphalerite_: that tmpfs bug is also causing major slowdowns when you want to just make a 2 line change to configuration.nix
<sphalerite_>
WilliamHamilton: yeah it's loading the wrong libGL
<clever>
since it has to re-build the entire os in a tmpfs
<sphalerite_>
WilliamHamilton: it should be getting it from /run/opengl-driver
* etu
only uses nixUnstable for searching, not brave enough yet
<clever>
WilliamHamilton: is LD_LIBRARY_PATH set?
<sphalerite_>
etu: nixUnstable is A++, can recommend
<ertes-w>
what's special about nixUnstable?
<sphalerite_>
nixos-install not working is literally the only thing that makes me ever still use 1.11.x
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<ertes-w>
any interesting new features?
<clever>
etu: i had to switch my nix-daemon for builtins.fetchTarball to even work, and i havent had any problems so far
<sphalerite_>
ertes-w: lots!
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<ertes-w>
is there a list?
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<Lisanna>
"the string ‘ap3x6sp4wyjc7l130hnm6vz583sfya6b-testdrv’ is not allowed to refer to a store path": does this error mean my string has a context that it shouldn't, or is missing a context?
<etu>
clever, sphalerite_: When I've tried I have been looking for things like rebuild (like nixos-rebuild boot|switch)
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<etu>
clever, sphalerite_: And then I haven't found it and stopped looking
<WilliamHamilton>
sphalerite_: clever : I added /run/opengl-driver/lib to my LD_LIBRARY_PATH, and I think that specific error went away; now I'll try to deal with the next one; summing up, I should always retrieve the opengl stuff in /run/opengl-driver, right? So, I couldn't find them grepping nix-store; are there other libraries that are not in nix/store?
<sphalerite_>
ertes-w: I'm not sure there's a nice succinct organised list… eelco's talk at nixcon showed some of the nice things though
<clever>
WilliamHamilton: /run/opengl-driver is just a symlink into the nix store
<sphalerite_>
WilliamHamilton: it should be in your LD_LIBRARY_PATH anyway
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] shlevy closed pull request #35012: Make the commit message format a recommendation. (master...no-commit-message-policing) https://git.io/vAnrO
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<etu>
clever: oh, they are in nixpkgs as well
<clever>
etu: nixpkgs contains all of nixos
<WilliamHamilton>
oh, I see; the thing is that I rewrote the LD_LIBRARY_PATH for my purposes, probably missing :$LD_LIBRARY_PATH at the end
<clever>
etu: the nixos repo is no longer maintained
<clever>
WilliamHamilton: you probably want to set the rpath with patchelf, rather then touch LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<etu>
Isn't there something like "nix rebuild" or something when using nix 2.0? instead of nixos-rubild?
<clever>
etu: i dont think so
<sphalerite_>
etu: no
<clever>
etu: nixos-rebuild is just a giant wrapper around nix-env, that points it to a certain expression
<WilliamHamilton>
in fact, had I just included the original $LD_LIBRARY_PATH, I woudn't have encountered the error!
<clever>
etu: and optionally runs a command when its done building
<sphalerite_>
exactly
<ertes-w>
sphalerite_: cool, i'm gonna check it out
<ertes-w>
sounds really interesting
<ertes-w>
BTW, i just realised that i could just have resized the tmpfs =)
<WilliamHamilton>
clever: right, the problem with that is that I don't know who is requesting that library; usually I use `ldd` to find out libraries that are not found, and patch up those with patchelf; but in this case I couldn't figure out, so I used LD_LIBRARY_PATH as a global workaround; are there better ways to find who's requesting a library?
<clever>
etu: relies on having enough ram and/or swap
<sphalerite_>
clever: plus building the nix from the config first and using that isntead of the current one to build it
<clever>
sphalerite_: i think that can be shortened to nix-env -p /nix/var/nix/profiles/system --set -f '<nixpkgs/nixos>' -A config.system.build.toplevel
<sphalerite_>
oh neat
<clever>
sphalerite_: it will also then run the bin/switch-to-configuration it just produced, with the flags test/boot/switch
<ertes-w>
so with nixUnstable there is only a 'nix' command with subcommands?
<sphalerite_>
ertes-w: no, the old commands are still around
<ertes-w>
let me rephrase
<sphalerite_>
ertes-w: but eventually the nix command should provide all the functionality that the old ones do, and better
<ertes-w>
so with nixUnstable there is a 'nix' command with subcommands that replace the individual tools i use right now?
<ben>
meh, i cant dig into this more today... at a wild guess it's running a whole lot of osx specific hooks
<ben>
i guess i'll just never exit nix-shell again
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<ertes-w>
(or "are supposed to replace")
<clever>
sphalerite_: that reminds me, i was jumping between nix-repl and nix repl in the same shell just 2 days ago, lol
<sphalerite_>
ertes-w: yes
<clever>
i needed to compare 1.12 and 1.11 behaviour
<sphalerite_>
clever: nix repl ♥
<Lisanna>
answering my own question from earlier: the error means the string has a context that it shouldn't, since discarding the string's context makes the error go away
<clever>
sphalerite_: the tab-completion in nix repl is weirder
<ertes-w>
but i suppose nix hasn't got a type system yet =)
<sphalerite_>
WilliamHamilton: btw AFAICT nouveau's support for your card should be fairly good too
<sphalerite_>
ertes-w: nope. Personally I'm hoping one day we can just use dhall in much the same way guix uses guile
<sphalerite_>
ertes-w: well, there is a type system implemented *in* nix
<WilliamHamilton>
sphalerite_: if I wanted to try that out, where would I found the value for `drivers` in my conffig? Would it just be "nouveau"?
<clever>
WilliamHamilton: several modules in here run nix expressions against the drivers list you set
<clever>
WilliamHamilton: and each module is responsible for adding its own software to the system, if they detect a magic string
<sphalerite_>
WilliamHamilton: just don't set videoDrivers at all
<sphalerite_>
WilliamHamilton: it will use nouveau by default
<sphalerite_>
but YMMV, I haven't tried it myself
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<WilliamHamilton>
ooh, I see, thanks!
<WilliamHamilton>
I'll try not putting anything; a tangential question: when I use LD_LIBRARY_PATH, is the order in which I put the libraries equivalent?
<etu>
WilliamHamilton: I'm pretty sure sphalerite_ is right there, on my box at home I get no output at all unless I got the nvidia driver. But it's always been like that on that card.
<WilliamHamilton>
or are there pitfalls I should know about
<clever>
WilliamHamilton: some of them are rather simple, and just blacklist their oposite, lol
<sphalerite_>
WilliamHamilton: again, you shouldn't be touching your LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Nixos should already be setting it as appropriate for the video driver and everything else should be in the executable's runpath
<clever>
sphalerite_: dlopen() is weird, and `patchelf --shrink-rpath` removes needed elements sometimes
<WilliamHamilton>
sphalerite_: it's not for the video driver anymore, it's for including libraries for which I couldn't figure out who I should patchelf
<clever>
WilliamHamilton: set LD_DEBUG=files and then look at the error
<clever>
WilliamHamilton: it will tell you who tried to load a given lib
<WilliamHamilton>
ok, let me try that
<ertes-w>
sphalerite_: i haven't checked out dhall yet… it seemed kinda redundant given nix
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<sphalerite_>
ertes-w: not at all, it has a mad decent type system
<ertes-w>
sphalerite_: what does it do then? generate nix code?
<ertes-w>
well, last time i checked it out it was brandnew… now that 1-2 years passed i'll give it another shot when i'm at home =)
<WilliamHamilton>
sphalerite_: after `LD_DEBUG=files`, running only the executable returns no useful info; am I supposed to strace it?
<sphalerite_>
I don't know things about LD_DEBUG, that's clever's territory :p
<WilliamHamilton>
sphalerite_: clever here's all the output http://lpaste.net/362554 I'd like to know who's asking for libSDL2
<clever>
WilliamHamilton: export LD_DEBUG=files, then run it
<WilliamHamilton>
clever: right, that changed all, let me look at the output for a moment
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<Lisanna>
...what is it about a derivation such that when it's referenced in a string it is added to the string's context? Doing a deep copy of a derivation to a new attrset produces something which passes isDerivation, but which apparently fails to add the appropriate context to a string it's ${used} in
<WilliamHamilton>
clever: ok, here's the output; the error happens at line 184, so I should probably be looking at the immediately previous lines; but what does `file=.... dynamically loaded by ...` mean? In particular, why are there so many mentions of libSDL2-2.0.so.0? where should I look?
<ottidmes>
Is there a simple way to poweroff a machine after e.g. 15min in initrd? I want to prevent the machine staying in initrd waiting to be unlocked remotely via SSH
<clever>
ottidmes: you would need to do something like (sleep $((60 * 15)); reboot ; ) & to fork it into the background, then find a way to kill that sub-shell if you change your mind
<clever>
ottidmes: and also find a command that can actually reboot it, reboot and shutdown are too smart, and try to ask systemd, but that isnt around yet
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] primeos pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vACkG
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master b431193 Robert Schütz: python3Packages.aiohttp: 2.3.10 -> 3.0.1
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<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master b2f39f9 Michael Weiss: Merge pull request #34891 from dotlambda/aiohttp...
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<sphalerite>
Oh yeah, that reminds me of that program I wrote that just invokes the reboot syscall directly
<sphalerite>
In the early days of my Chromebook experiments
<sphalerite>
When I just needed a program that would let me know if anything was going on
<Dezgeg>
echo b > /proc/sysrq-trigger works usually though (or whatever the letter is)
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<sphalerite>
yep b
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<sphalerite>
Well if it's to reboot
<Dezgeg>
or in case of early boot code debugging, hit the SoC reboot register in the clock controller
<Dezgeg>
(if you need to debug before the UARTs are up)
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<clever>
Dezgeg: ah, b or o, that works great
<clever>
o just cuts power hard, no sync
<WilliamHamilton>
sphalerite_: clever well, steam-run worked without any hiccups! I'm glad to have learned the usage of LD_DEBUG! Thanks very much for your help!
<clever>
WilliamHamilton: there is also LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose, which makes libGL itself report debug info
<clever>
WilliamHamilton: and then LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=1 LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH=$APPROOT/lib/dri/ let you manipulate what libGL does
<clever>
you can google most of those var names to find docs
<clever>
and other related flags
<WilliamHamilton>
clever, thanks for the pointers! That would help me if I happen to not find the libGL libraries again, right? For which other use case are they useful?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] bignaux opened pull request #35039: z88dk : init at 20180217-49a7c60 (master...z88dk) https://git.io/vACIA
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<clever>
WilliamHamilton: LIBGL_DEBUG helps if libGL can load, but fails to find the local drivers
<clever>
WilliamHamilton: LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE and LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH force it to use the software rendering driver, and to look in a specific place
<clever>
i was going down that road, because my goal is to make the program work outside of nixos
<clever>
where /run/opengl-driver will be missing
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<WilliamHamilton>
ooh, I see, that makes sense! How can you install the drivers outside nixos? Just installing the package, and then use the flag to correct the position?
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<clever>
WilliamHamilton: there are several issues there, mainly, the api between the xorg half and the application half may have changed
<clever>
WilliamHamilton: rather then risk dealing with that, i just forced it to software mode, so it never tries to talk to the hardware/xorg
<clever>
WilliamHamilton: then i just pointed LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH to the place where i copied the mesa_noglu.drivers derivation
<lejonet>
sphalerite_: Basically, I'm trying to run ceph -v, and it complained that it couldn't find prettytable module, so I installed python27.withPackages bla bla with prettytable
<lejonet>
sphalerite_: and I could run python and do a import prettytable no problem, but running ceph -v made it still whine that it couldn't find prettytable
<WilliamHamilton>
clever: I'm impressed by your familiarity with the stack, to be honest :)
<clever>
WilliamHamilton: i dont stop when errors happen, and just dive head-first into source ive never seen before :P
<clever>
WilliamHamilton: ive found myself editing libGL before just to debug a problem
<sphalerite_>
lejonet: this applies to python envs too. The actual problem here is ceph's packaging
<sphalerite_>
lejonet: which is probably also why it's marked as broken
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<lejonet>
sphalerite_: I'm working with the ceph package from a PR, that isn't broken, but the python parts of it should probably be made into a own output or similar
<WilliamHamilton>
not stopping when errors happen is a superpower in itself; one thing I wondered is: how much of the linux stack is, let's say, historical cruft, and how much could be avoided if we could rebuild it from scratch (I know it's not realistic); which design decisions would we make?
<sphalerite_>
WilliamHamilton: do you know about RedoxOS? :D
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<lejonet>
sphalerite_: so basically I guess what I'm asking is how do I give the ceph binary the env it needs to find the relevant modules? I managed to make it find its own rados module with "just" a pythonpath hack, but I haven't been able to make it find prettytable, maybe both are solvable with pythonpath?
<WilliamHamilton>
no, reading :D
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] zimbatm opened pull request #35040: haskell-generic-builder: override the provided outputs (master...haskell-enable-data-output) https://git.io/vACtz
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<sphalerite_>
lejonet: sorry, don't know enough about ceph and how it's built up to help :/ but I think what you'd want is to make a wrapper for it that sets the appropriate PYTHONPATH
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<lejonet>
sphalerite_: that was my guess
<sphalerite_>
lejonet: probably makePythonPath would be involved there somewhere
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<lejonet>
sphalerite_: Mhm, just need to figure out what more modules it needs and such, but then I know
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] oxij opened pull request #35041: tree-wide: no pulseaudio by default (master...pkgs/no-pulseaudio-by-default) https://git.io/vACmS
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<ToxicFrog>
So qtwebkit is "only" 18000 steps or so but apparently one of those steps is "build chromium"
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<flox>
can I prevent nix-shell from dropping me to my $HOME instead of staying in the current working dir? it is kind of annoying...
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<lejonet>
sphalerite_: hmm, it would seem its not the ceph script itself that is whining, but a module it imports, how the heck do I get that one to get the right pythonpath? I borrowed the wrapper script that is used to realize the right env for the python binary (it sets pythonhome and such), and it still errored out
<lejonet>
I guess the pythonhome thing didn't propagate or something?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] bignaux opened pull request #35042: squashfuse : init at 0.1.101-371e4be (master...squashfuse) https://git.io/vACYD
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<genesis>
:)
<sphalerite_>
flox: this isn't normal behaviour. Do you have "cd" in your .bashrc or something?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master b51280e Nikolay Amiantov: paprefs: use full pulseaudio input...
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] abbradar pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vACYN
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master a5ebf4a Nikolay Amiantov: mprime: 28.7 -> 29.4b
<flox>
sphalerite_: thanks ... I don't even use bash :(
<sphalerite_>
rardiol[m]: can be changed at nix's configuration time though
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<sphalerite_>
lejonet: it should always propagate — only reason it wouldn't is if it explicitly gets unset by something along the call chain
<lejonet>
sphalerite_: My guess is that I could just push the things needed system-wide, but that seems like an ugly hack, maybe create an python env for just the ceph binaries?
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<sphalerite_>
lejonet: I don't really have any idea how it's being called, you could try using strace -fe execve to see if it's executing a python process
<sphalerite_>
but it might also be calling the interpreter through libpython or something
<aanderse>
is there any solution nixos folk have to the horror of reproducibly running software through wine?
<lejonet>
sphalerite_: that was my thought too, and the script that is the ceph "binary" is kindof wonky writen
<lejonet>
I will strace and see what the heck its up to
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<lejonet>
it is calling a python binary just like any other python script would, weirdness
<hyper_ch>
I hate EFI
<samueldr>
hyper_ch: any particular reason? :)
<hyper_ch>
samueldr: well, i want to flash my h200 into IT mode... tried several guides.. but I keep ending up like this https://images.sjau.ch/img/c74f37b2.jpg
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<hyper_ch>
all the guides say, but into efi shell, run those commands....
* samueldr
doesn't actually know...
<hyper_ch>
neither does google
<samueldr>
... but AFAIK there are two main revisions of "the UEFI shell"
<samueldr>
depending on if it's the embedded shell from the board (which could be any of the two) or a shell executable from another source, it may change how things work
<hyper_ch>
shell from usb stick
<Dezgeg>
that looks way too much like DOS
<samueldr>
(and also, depending if it's the shell provided by what you're installing)
<hyper_ch>
samueldr: no idea what you mean
<sphalerite_>
lejonet: then it's probably clearing the environment — or calling a wrapped python
<lejonet>
sphalerite_: its just being a prick :( :P
<hyper_ch>
but I always get that same result
<samueldr>
well, then it's not a "random another shell", it's the shell that should work with the exec but... computers are hard :(
<rardiol[m]>
sphalerite_: thanks, but now I just realized I instaledl nix as a normal user (outside nixos) and one package I'm trying to build seems to need to chroot, but I need to be root to use build-use-sandbox. Is there a solution that is not reinstall nix for multiuser?
<sphalerite_>
rardiol[m]: which package? AFAIK all packages should be able to build both with the sandbox enabled and without it
<sphalerite_>
rardiol[m]: you can also migrate an existing installation to multi-user with a bit of fiddling
<rardiol[m]>
sphalerite_: a game I'm tryint to package: https://github.com/thebracket/bgame . it gets to the end of the build and when linking says there's an impurity (/usr/lib/liblua something)
<sphalerite_>
aah yes, the sandbox would help with that :/
<rardiol[m]>
and just chown the /nix/ to root? or to some nix-daemon user?
<sphalerite_>
rardiol[m]: yep that should pretty much do it, yes root, and you'll probably also want to set up nix-daemon as a service that your init system runs
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<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master f8c4890 Yuri Aisaka: caffe2: init at 0.8.1 (#34956)
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vACGm
<sphalerite_>
hm that wiki page should probably recommend switching to a nix-installed nix after the bootstrap as well
<symphorien>
also (I didn't test) I this adding things to bashrc makes it bash spectific
<symphorien>
I think*
<sphalerite_>
yeah
<sphalerite_>
although there isn't really a universal location to set that sort of thing that I know of :/
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm closed pull request #33957: Added support for Factorio's experimental branch. (master...add-factorio-experimental-support) https://git.io/vN8yF
<lejonet>
sphalerite_: making the script using the user-env python in its shebang instead of the default one made it find everything as it should :D so I'll "just" have to create a python-env with that module and make that python be the one that is used when wrapping the python scripts in the build proces
<lejonet>
s/using/use/
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<ToxicFrog>
Yaaaay I think it's done libqtwebkit and is now working on pyqt
<lejonet>
sphalerite_: however I do that :P
<ToxicFrog>
I kind of want to restart it to see if I can tell why it's not getting this stuff from Hydra, but I also don't want to interrupt it because it's been working on this for three hours already
<sphalerite_>
lejonet: yeah that makes sense, just have it use ${python3.withPackages (ps: with ps; [foo bar baz])}/bin/python instead of ~/.nix-profile/bin/python or /usr/bin/env python or whatever
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<sphalerite_>
lejonet: in fact if it's a shebang like /usr/bin/env python it should automatically patch it appropriately in the fixupPhase if you add the python-with-packages to its buildInputs
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<sphalerite_>
Not sure if this is actually the idiomatic solution though
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<ToxicFrog>
sphalerite_: apropos of that, is there a way to install python packages "system-wide" yet, or do you still need to use (nix-shell -p pythonXPackages.foo) each time?
<lejonet>
sphalerite_: Well, it has another python interprenter it uses to actually create the python stuff and so, so I'm hoping the wrapping script has an easy way of being handed what python interprenter it should use for the wrapping
<lejonet>
ToxicFrog: just add the pythonXPackages.foo in the configuration.nix iirc
<sphalerite_>
lejonet: ah right
<sphalerite_>
ToxicFrog: no, and it's not a planned (mis)feature
<lejonet>
sphalerite_: I'll have to look into it a bit more
<ToxicFrog>
lejonet: I tried that a while ago, and it doesn't work; the packages are installed, but not available in the python REPL unless you nix-shell them.
<lejonet>
ToxicFrog: I haven't tried it myself, but that is what I've found when searching around, let me grab the link I found it at
<lejonet>
erh, its actually in the manual
<sphalerite_>
ToxicFrog: the idea is that *applications* should be installed into a user (or system) env, not libraries
<sphalerite_>
because libraries aren't used directly by the user, they're used through applications. And applications should depend on them explicitly because of purity
<sphalerite_>
lejonet: nice section number xD
<lejonet>
sphalerite_: haha yeah, nested deeeeep in the abyss of the manual ;)
<sphalerite_>
ToxicFrog: you can of course do something like the manual mentions there, but the idiomatic nix way is to package the software that uses these libraries, and to use nix-shell when you're developing the software and don't want to build a new package on every one-line change
<Drakonis>
hmm, has anyone looked at overlayfs to replace symlinking everything?
<ToxicFrog>
sphalerite_: yeah, these are either packages that I use constantly from the REPL for one-offs, or local, perpetually under development helper scripts where writing a derivation for them would take longer than writing the script itself did
<ToxicFrog>
Possibly I should just `alias python2='nix-shell -p python27Packages.{...} --run python2'` in my zshrc or something.
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<lejonet>
drakonis: that would be a neat solution
<Profpatsch>
sphalerite_: Thanks, will look into it.
<hakujin>
I'm using a pinned nixpkgs via `fetchFromGitHub`; how can I replicate the behavior of `import <nixpkgs/nixos>`? something like `pkgs.nixos` doesn't work.
<catern>
are there any good cheatsheets for Nix users? (mine in particular are just Nix users, not NixOS)
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<clever>
hakujin: pkgs.path is the path to the root of the nixpkgs
<sphalerite_>
hakujin: import (pkgs.path + "/nixos") should do it
<Drakonis>
lejonet, one thing i've seen done with overlayfs was that an entire system is constructed and then overlaid on another
<clever>
hakujin: so pkgs.path + "/nixos" is the path to the nixos dir
<hakujin>
clever, sphalerite_: thank you!
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] layus opened pull request #35044: I really wanted the ability to make pull-requests that follow `.github/PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md`. This feature is not released in a stable branch yet, so I updated to 2.3.0-pre10. (master...update-hub) https://git.io/vACcR
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<Drakonis>
so there can be immutability cake eating
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<Drakonis>
an immutable base and any changes overlaid
<clever>
drakonis: ive done similar with my gentoo laptop, prior to discovering nixos
<clever>
drakonis: the entire system was a squashfs on a usb stick, and a custom initrd would copy that to ram, then unionfs it with a tmpfs
<clever>
drakonis: i could then tar up the tmpfs and save it back to the stick at shutdown, or re-squashfs the whole thing
<clever>
or just not save my changes
<Drakonis>
that sounds hacky tbh
<Drakonis>
a lot of effort
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] bignaux opened pull request #35045: idsk : init at 0.16-1846729 (master...idsk) https://git.io/vACcj
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<clever>
and totally impure, because i could just update the squashfs with anything i had changed
<ToxicFrog>
There's a few intended-for-portable-use distros that do that out of the box.
<Drakonis>
i've been messing with fedora atomic workstation and that's the part that stands out
<ToxicFrog>
Puppy Linux and TinyCore Linux both work via layered filesystems with a bunch of squashfs mounts at the bottom.
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<Drakonis>
my main gripe is that nixos as it is currently set up gets in the way of doing small temporary changes
<clever>
drakonis: depends on what you want to change, and there are ways of forcing it
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<Drakonis>
do tell
<clever>
drakonis: for simple things like /etc/nix/nix.conf, its a symlink to the nix version
<clever>
you have now copied the contents out into a regular file
<clever>
nix will replace it with a symlink next time you `nixos-rebuild switch` or reboot
<maurer>
drakonis: Does nixos-rebuild test or nixos-rebuild build-vm match your wants?
<ToxicFrog>
Ok. Actual question time. I am trying to write a derivation for Cone. Absent any buildInputs, it dies on "checking for perl... no; configure: error: perl not found - please install perl" during configure.
<clever>
test will also restore the above path into a symlink
<ToxicFrog>
If I do `buildInputs = [ self.perl ];` it dies in the same manner.
<clever>
ToxicFrog: how is it checking for perl?, read the source of the configure script and/or the config.log
<ToxicFrog>
If I do `nativeBuildInputs` instead, it still dies, but also tries to build gnutls from source for reasons I am not clear on.
<ToxicFrog>
(and the "these derivations will be built" list gets super long)
<ToxicFrog>
(like, it goes from "building cone and system-path" to "building most of the system")
<ij>
Why does it seem like nixos-rebuild's gotten slower?
<Drakonis>
maurer, i don't think so
<ToxicFrog>
clever: it's checking $PATH for it
<Drakonis>
i'm not looking to change the nix configuration file though
<ToxicFrog>
(specifically, it's checking each directory in $PATH to see if ${dir}/perl exists and is executable rather than just running `type -p` or something)
<ToxicFrog>
(I guess it wouldn't be autoconf it it weren't extremely overcomplicated)
<clever>
ToxicFrog: whi ${dir}/perl and not ${dir}/bin/perl?
<ToxicFrog>
clever: because it's searching $PATH, like I said, so the /bin is included
<clever>
ah yeah, *doh*
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<ToxicFrog>
Like, on a non-Nix machine it would be checking for /bin/perl, /usr/bin/perl, $HOME/bin/perl, etc
<clever>
ToxicFrog: and perl should be in that
<ToxicFrog>
I would have thought so, yes!
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<ToxicFrog>
And the docs for buildInputs say "This attribute ensures that the bin subdirectories of these packages appear in the PATH environment variable during the build..."
<clever>
ToxicFrog: find the .drv file for this derivation, and run nix-shell directly on that drv, then try echo $PATH
<ToxicFrog>
I'm writing the .drv file
<clever>
and echo $buildInputs and friends
<ToxicFrog>
Oooooo my god, I found the problem
<clever>
?
<ToxicFrog>
The `buildInputs` was outside the `mkDerivation {...}`
<clever>
heh
<clever>
also, if your writing the .drv file, your doing something very wrong
<ToxicFrog>
Er, not the .drv file
<ToxicFrog>
The .nix file
<clever>
running nix-shell on the .drv that nix generates, will give you the exact shell nix was using
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<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 25ee251 Peter Simons: haskell-generic-builder: simplify outputs attribute logic...
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] peti pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vACWi
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<clever>
systemd-1 on /media/videos/4tb type autofs (rw,relatime,fd=25,pgrp=1,timeout=0,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct)
<clever>
stat: cannot stat '/media/videos/4tb/': Too many levels of symbolic links
<clever>
silly systemd, go away
<ToxicFrog>
And now I'm back to being confused: it's trying to rebuild most of the system again, including dbus, the initrd, etc
<clever>
ToxicFrog: can you gist the nix expression?
<ToxicFrog>
I was under the impression that if I -- for example -- did "nix-channel --update; nixos-rebuild switch; nixos-rebuild switch", the second nixos-rebuild would be a no-op
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<clever>
ToxicFrog: it should be
<clever>
ToxicFrog: can you gist the whole configuration.nix file?
<ToxicFrog>
And that if the only change was adding a new package to systemPackages, I should expect it to build that package, plus anything it depends on, plus some system-level stuff, but not random other things.
<ToxicFrog>
Hrm. It's trying to rebuild lots of things even if I don't try to include this new package.
<ToxicFrog>
Even if I delete it completely. Did I leave a cron running that runs `nix-channel --update` or something?
<ToxicFrog>
And it's telling me things like that it's going to fetch /nix/store/rv42fy8axk38d48vyniwxi0fcaiwwzv9-zfs-user-0.7.6, but zfs-user-0.7.6 already exists in the store with a different hash.
<ToxicFrog>
clever: it's scattered across a whole bunch of different files :/
<clever>
ToxicFrog: are you managing things in git?
<ToxicFrog>
At least this time it's telling me that it's going to download qtwebkit rather than building it from source.
<ToxicFrog>
I wonder if it just couldn't get at hydra earlier and was building everything locally? But in that case they should be in the store and it shouldn't need to re-build them, and since nix builds are hermetic the ones built locally should have hashes that match the ones on Hydra.
<ToxicFrog>
clever: yes, but it's not publically available anywhere (and never will be). I might be able to split out just the relevant parts, but I think the new package is a red herring, because even if I stash those changes it's still trying to rebuild a whole lot of the system.
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<samueldr>
is the commit you built upon in nixpkgs before or after the commit of the last channel update for that branch? e.g. if you cloned nixpkgs, checkout develop, you're almost guaranteed to have to build things
<ToxicFrog>
samueldr: I don't have a local clone of nixpkgs, this is just a small collection of override files which I have not made changes to since the last nixos-rebuild
<samueldr>
ah, then carry on and ignore me :)
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] deepfire opened pull request #35046: sayonara: init at 1.0.0-git5-20180115 (master...sayonara-player) https://git.io/vAClj
<ToxicFrog>
Like, the sequence of events here is: nix-channel --update; nixos-rebuild build (and check results); nixos-rebuild switch (which did not need to rebuild anything); edit override files; nixos-rebuild dry-build (wants to rebuild/redownload lots of stuff like zfs, dbus, *.pam, etc); revert changes to override files; nixos-rebuild dry-build (see that it still wants to rebuild the same things, apart from the new
<ToxicFrog>
package I was adding to the overrides)
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<ToxicFrog>
Stupid (unrelated to the above) question: can I write conditional imports that depend on the system's current hostname (not networking.hostname) so that I can have one configuration.nix that just imports the real config for whatever system it's on, rather than having to symlink the right configuration.nix into place on each system?
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<clever>
ToxicFrog: builtins.getEnv "HOSTNAME" i think
<sphalerite_>
Well, I've angered a poettering hater. I suppose it was bound to happen eventually. It's basically a rite of passage :p
<simpson>
sphalerite_: I hate PulseAudio with all the contempt of a professional musician, and yet it's still the right call here. They'll have to learn to grow up.
<gchristensen>
simpson: I'm not contesting what you're saying. Why is it the right call?
<clever>
simpson: id like to see better jack support in nixos
<goibhniu>
PA isn't for musicians, it's for consumer audio ... jack doesn't replace it
<Profpatsch>
He writes about global pulseaudio, I guess he means enable pulseaudio as option but still run as user?
<goibhniu>
try connecting your bluetooth headset with jack
<LnL>
I didn't even try to get sound working on my desktop :p
<clever>
goibhniu: i think bluez removed the alsa utils, and only the pulseuadio daemon has support now
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<simpson>
gchristensen: Because it's apparently the interface which upstream supports, and upstream explicitly isn't happy with using ALSA.
<simpson>
clever: I *would* love to see better JACK support. I have a few scripts for JACK setups, but I haven't Nixified them.
<gchristensen>
oh upstream == firefox?
<simpson>
Yeah.
<goibhniu>
what's missing with jack support on NixOS?
<simpson>
goibhniu: It's not turnkey. You can get the JACK daemon into your environment, manually pause Pulse and start JACK, and load patch settings from a config file.
<simpson>
But you can't *automatically* any of it.
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<clever>
simpson: biggest issue i can see, is getting the clients to support jack, chromium, teamspeak, steam
<goibhniu>
simpson: ah ok, IMO that's using jack for the wrong thing though
<simpson>
goibhniu: Well, after it's set up, I record music into Audacity or Ardour. Pretty sure it's the right use case for JACK.
<goibhniu>
but don't you need to load particular sessions?
<simpson>
clever: I like how you listed three shitty not-really-open-source projects~ There's no hope for them IMO.
<goibhniu>
once you start hooking things together, you need session management, which is outside the scope of NixOS IMO
<simpson>
Sure, but at the same time, if there's any way to improve the Nix side of things, we should probably do it.
<goibhniu>
I guess I don't believe that having declarative jack session configuration is useful
<goibhniu>
when you need it, you fire it up and load your session
* goibhniu
uses it alongside PA FWIW
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<ToxicFrog>
clever: thanks, I'll try it
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<ToxicFrog>
(except it looks like it's HOST)
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<vaibhavsagar>
has anyone had a crack at packaging the new MLton for NixOS?
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<lejonet>
sphalerite_: Is there any neat way of saying "this output from this package is supposed to be an python package" or "and in this python env, add these files to site-packages folder"?
<sphalerite_>
I don't know
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<lejonet>
Maybe buildEnv and extraLibs?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] oxij opened pull request #35047: firefox: patch to fix bug 1430274 (broken ALSA output) in 58 (master...pkg/firefox-alsa-out) https://git.io/vACuD
<ToxicFrog>
clever: update on hostname: looks like HOSTNAME is bash-specific and HOST is zsh-specific and neither is available to nixos-rebuild unless explicitly exported :/
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vACgG
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 01a49f3 Vladimír Čunát: knot-resolver: 2.0.0 -> 2.1.0...
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<clever>
ToxicFrog: heh, weird
<clever>
ToxicFrog: i can confirm, neither shows up in `env`
<ToxicFrog>
On the other hand, ${builtins.readFile /etc/hostname}
<clever>
ToxicFrog: was about to sudjest that next :P
<ToxicFrog>
...which helpfully has \n on the end of it
<nhill>
goibhniu: Thanks, but that only seem to solve half my problem
<clever>
ToxicFrog: also, you can do ./. + "/${lib.removeSuffix "\n" (builtins.readFile /etc/hostname)}/configuration.nix"
<clever>
ToxicFrog: then it becomes relative
<clever>
ToxicFrog: but that will fail for nixos-install
<clever>
ToxicFrog: i prefer to instead, keep configuration.nix outside of git, and it just has the bare minimum required to boot, and points to the real config, in git
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<ToxicFrog>
Yeah, I nixos-install very rarely and I'm ok doing some manual bootstrapping there
<ToxicFrog>
Mostly I just want to be able to keep the entire thing in git, including the top-level configuration.nix, and blorf the whole thing into /etc/nixos as needed
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<clever>
ToxicFrog: 2 problems with that
<clever>
ToxicFrog: first, you need such hacks to share the configuration.nix between machines :P
<clever>
ToxicFrog: second, with my idea, the only difference configuration.nix contains, is the fs UUID's
<ToxicFrog>
It's true! Only two machines these days, though.
<clever>
if your configuration.nix is lost, so is your fs :P
<clever>
your going to need a new uuid anyways
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<clever>
and my method allows you to make a 2nd machine with the same setup, but different uuid's
<ToxicFrog>
I mount by label (or by ZFS dataset name) rather than by UUID anyways
<clever>
zfs needs a per-machine hostid
<clever>
and will refuse to mount if another hostid has touched the pool
<ToxicFrog>
Yes.
<clever>
and you still have the /boot and swap uuid's
<clever>
and which zfs datasets to actually mount
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<hyper_ch>
clever: have you managed yet to have /boot in a zfs dataset (unencrypted)?
<ToxicFrog>
Don't have swap, and /boot is on zfs as well, and also I'm not really clear on what your point is
<clever>
grub has poor zfs support, ive heard that it doesnt support the tree based directory structure at all
<clever>
so it has to iterate thru every single file in a directory
<clever>
and /nix/store makes that massively slower
<clever>
grub also does zero journal activity, on any journaled filesystem
<clever>
so reads may be corrupt if you improperly shutdown
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<hyper_ch>
clever: so what other boot loader do you recommend?
<clever>
hyper_ch: grub with an ext4 /boot
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<lejonet>
sphalerite_: I think I'll finish my testing of my service module for ceph before digging down into the package, as the package is a PR anyway :P
<hyper_ch>
and what's actually dracut... I still don't get it
<lejonet>
its a initramfs generator basically
<hyper_ch>
and that's different from a boot loader I guess
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<sphalerite_>
initramfs generator runs while the operating system is booted to generate an initramfs
<lejonet>
Yeah, it is used to setup stuff pre-init to a stage where you can hand over control to the rootfs's init
<sphalerite_>
the initramfs is the initial userspace that you have before the actual root filesystem is mounted. It's loaded along with the kernel by the bootloader.
<hyper_ch>
what about with systemd-boot? would that allow to run everything on zfs
<clever>
hyper_ch: systemd-boot is EFI based, and must live on a filesystem that the bios supports (fat32 typically)
<clever>
hyper_ch: and then i would just put the kernel&initrd on that
<hyper_ch>
that's all so annoying.... I just wished there was a simle way to just make a whole block device into a zfs pool and boot from it
<clever>
hyper_ch: i think for legacy booting, you need ~27kb of space for the "grub core", for MBR disks, thats between sector 0 and partition 1
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<clever>
hyper_ch: for GPT disks, thats the dedicated "bios boot partition"
<clever>
hyper_ch: in the old days, NIC cards came with a dos program on a floppy that handled this task
<hyper_ch>
really?
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<clever>
yeah
<hyper_ch>
:)
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<gchristensen>
heads up: macos builds are broken on ofborg right now. I can't fix it right now, either. I've exposed a status page: https://nix.ci/status
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<hyper_ch>
btw, what is generally added to nixos as new modules and stuff? I wrote my own little zfs backup scripts and I think it would be nice for me if it was available as module to cofnigure from the configuration.nix but I doubt others have interest in such a thing
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: hmm good question
<infinisil>
It's the same thing with small scripts that probably shouldn't be added to pkgs
<hyper_ch>
if those are my scripts they should be added :)
<sphalerite_>
Hm. I'd like to add an env var to my firefox wrapper, but I don't see an easy way to override it while keeping the rest as is… nor do I like the idea of having a metawrapper
<sphalerite_>
Anyone got any smart ideas for how I could do this?
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: I think something can be added if it's usage is flexible enough, has been thought out well, has a readme and a page online, and it work for the near future, including potential maintenance
<infinisil>
something like that
<sphalerite_>
(specifically, I want to add MOZ_USE_XINPUT2=1 for fancy scrolling support)
<hyper_ch>
or how would I include a custom module? I can include just other packages by writing a nix expression though
<infinisil>
sphalerite_: isn't it just wrapFirefox (firefox-unwrapped.overrideAttrs (old: { VAR=1; })) {} ?
<adisbladis[m]>
hyper_ch: Just through an import
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: there is in fact no difference between configuration.nix and a module file, configuration.nix is a module
<hyper_ch>
well, other stuff that's packages I just include in the list of system packges to import the .nix
<hyper_ch>
but for modules - no idea
<sphalerite_>
infinisil: no :( it's a fully-fledged derivation that does evereything in its buildCommand
<sphalerite_>
hyper_ch: the imports attr, which also refers to your hardware-configuration.nix, lists additional modules to add
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<hyper_ch>
sphalerite_: I see, I might have a look at it then
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<hakujin>
I want to run a haskell program's test suite (`cabal test`) that connects to postgres on hydra. Is the correct way to implement this via a nixos test where I setup postgres, drop into a nix-shell somehow and then run `cabal test`?
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: it's literally just `imports = [ ./path/to/module ];`
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<hyper_ch>
that looks complicated :)
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<hyper_ch>
but how would I import a module from a website? :)
<gchristensen>
clever: that might just be the most obnoxious bug report :P
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: btw, I am in the process of starting development of a ZFS tool that could end up like znapzend, but much better
<clever>
gchristensen: :C
<clever>
:D
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: the thoughts behind my tool are: (a) it's simple - just some bash (b) it works together with auto-snapshot from the servers that should be backed up
<gchristensen>
clever: under promise, over deliver? :)
<hyper_ch>
isn't it normally the other way round?
<clever>
gchristensen: lol
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: yeah, my tool would be anything but simple, but it would additionally solve another problem I've had
<lejonet>
infinisil: job security?
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: it comes with a take-over-the-world button?
<hyper_ch>
(in my script, if I wouldn't put basically every step into a seperate function, the actual core part could be like 60-70 lines of code)
<infinisil>
lejonet: ha, i'm a student, but I am gettin practice with implementing this so kinda
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<hyper_ch>
infinisil: so what problem would yours solve and why make it complicated?
<lejonet>
infinisil: ^^
<infinisil>
It's multidirectional syncable between any number of hosts, with a single host having write access, the others being readonly
<hyper_ch>
I have a backup server and the backup servers initiates transfers
<sphalerite_>
clever: oh :(
<sphalerite_>
so (import <nixpkgs> {}).fetchurl instead
<infinisil>
Which solves my problem of wanting to work on my projects on different machines, since everytime i switch machines, i can say "give me write rights on this machine" which syncs latest changes from the previous write host
<clever>
sphalerite_: now you have an impurity based on the config.nix in the current $HOME
<clever>
sphalerite_: which may impact the fetchurl code
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: isn't that what the "cloud" is for?
<ottidmes>
I am setting up znapzend at this very moment, I just need to fix user rights so it can SSH correctly
<hyper_ch>
ottidmes: znapzend didn't like encryption :)
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: the tool should work without intermediate servers, decentralized, because my internet is highly unreliable
<sphalerite_>
clever: but realistically, *will* it? :p
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<hyper_ch>
infinisil: well, you know "cloud".... that's always available from everywhere
<infinisil>
ottidmes: are you using the znapzend module i wrote recently?
<ottidmes>
hyper_ch: You mean the built-in encryption of ZFS? I am using LUKS
<hyper_ch>
ottidmes: yes, native zfs encryption
<ottidmes>
infinisil: I am using the latest znapzend module on master, if that was you, then yeah
<sphalerite_>
hyper_ch: no, md5 isn't better than no hash, because it gives you a a false impression of immutability
<clever>
sphalerite_: i tend to go overboard and import <nixpkgs> { config={}; overlays=[]; }
<hyper_ch>
despite having watched the presentation a few times, I still don't get overlays
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm closed pull request #35047: firefox: patch to fix bug 1430274 (broken ALSA output) in 58 (master...pkg/firefox-alsa-out) https://git.io/vACuD
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<sphalerite_>
hyper_ch: with no hash it's clear that all bets are off on the stability of whatever's at the URL
<infinisil>
ottidmes: \o/ nice, there's at least 2 people now using it then :D
<sphalerite_>
clever: sensible
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: when did you write it?
<ottidmes>
infinisil: Right, I see "meta.maintainers = with maintainers; [ infinisil ];", thank you for your efforts! Let's hope it works though, am about to test it
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: you even bothered me on the evening to finally finish it if you remember!
<infinisil>
It's probably the nicest module i ever wrote
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: you still think I remember things that far back? :)
<ottidmes>
infinisil: Thinking about it, that you made it makes total sense, since the only examples I could find about znapzend was your github repo on which I based my ZFS config
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: so, every 2 months the user base for that module doubles
<infinisil>
ottidmes: heh nice :D
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<infinisil>
hyper_ch: i really wish we had some more detailed usage data
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<hyper_ch>
infinisil: :)
<hyper_ch>
had a loot at my little script?
<infinisil>
This znapzend module is especially nice also because it encompasses *all* znapzend functionality, you can do it all with the module
<lejonet>
infinisil: kindof how I'm modeling the ceph module :D
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: havin a closer look now
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<ottidmes>
infinisil: I just wrote myself a script to send my btrfs share to my other machine, which needs root, I assume znapzend needs this as well? If so, do you know what the command it I would have to allow root access to?
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: you'll see it's very simple :)
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<infinisil>
ottidmes: well the znapzend service from the module runs as root already, so you only need to give ssh root access manually
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: if you have questions, just ask... I think I can probably answer them
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: still looking through it
<hyper_ch>
still stuck on line 2? :)
<ottidmes>
infinisil: Yeah, but I do not want to use a passwordless root, so I am looking into restricted the root access to just what znapzend needs via sudoers, with btrfs, it is simple, just give access to the btrfs binary, but what is the equivalent with znapzend, not sure
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<hyper_ch>
why not use passwordless root?
<hyper_ch>
people hav eused passwordless root for thousands of years :)
<lejonet>
Because god kills a kitten for every tool that relies on passwordless root? xD
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: I'll bookmark your znapzend module commit.... I guess I can use that then for mine
<hyper_ch>
God must be pretty busy then
<Yatekii>
can nixos only mount zfs in legacy mode?
<hyper_ch>
no, it can also do the zfs mount but that one's always a bit a risk (or so I've heard)
<lejonet>
hyper_ch: :P The reason I can come up with to not want a backup software to ssh into machines as root, is the fact that a backup program is sshing into a system as root
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: read through it, nice!
<Yatekii>
hyper_ch: hmm ok, why is that? because my mate uses it on zfs with non legacy. but I would like to use it on nix :)
<lejonet>
Its damn near impossible, short of MACs, to restrict the power of root, whereas with a dedicated user, that gets policied through sudoers is a lot easier to secure
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: still some additional checks are needed and I think I could make it more general so that it could become a module
<ottidmes>
lejonet: Right, that is my reasoning as well
<clever>
lejonet: there are countless ways sudoers can be abused if your not 100% perfect
<clever>
lejonet: simiarly with setuid root binaries
<clever>
lejonet: for example, fusermount is setuid root, and a few months ago, it was discovered that it will automatically `modprobe fuse` for you
<lejonet>
clever: indeed very true, never said it was a perfectly secure system, but more secure than carte blanche root access for backup software
<clever>
lejonet: and modprobe obeys env vars for the config, causing it to execute stuff the user supplied
<lejonet>
clever: every little piece counts, and the possibility of not using root, is a good start to at the very least, mitigate the potential damage caused
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<clever>
lejonet: something else ive seen used by a vpn program ages ago, was a way to get a /dev/tun handle, without ever aquaring root directly
<ottidmes>
i-am-the-slime: google "nixos xmonad configuration" and you find plenty of examples. I have used it in NixOS in the past without problem
<clever>
lejonet: its possible to pass an open file handle via a unix socket
<joachifm>
hm
<lejonet>
Mhm, its kindof scary
<clever>
lejonet: the VPN in question, had an open-source daemon, that shares /dev/tun handles via the unix socket, and manages configuring the IP on the interface
<clever>
lejonet: then a closed-source blob that doesnt directly need root, and does the VPN magic
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<infinisil>
ottidmes: the first thing you'll need to do for being able to run znapzend without root is to make normal zfs commansd work without root
<clever>
lejonet: which allows users to audit the part needing root
<infinisil>
like a zfs create
<clever>
lejonet: unix sockets can also query the pid and uid of the remote peer
<i-am-the-slime>
ottidmes: I'm just afraid I won't be able to find my way around it.
<lejonet>
clever: unix sockets are mighty powerful, in terrifying ways
<clever>
lejonet: ssh-agent does some neat things with those powers
<clever>
lejonet: if you chmod the socket, and try to use the agent from the wrong user, it just flat out refuses to work
<infinisil>
i-am-the-slime: are you on nixos?
<infinisil>
i'd guess
<i-am-the-slime>
yes
<lejonet>
clever: yeah, because openssh takes security seriously, and in that, a big part is to always verify your responses to be within a threshold :P
<infinisil>
i-am-the-slime: have you checked out the xmonad options?
<ottidmes>
i-am-the-slime: Find your way around xmonad, or getting it to work in NixOS?
<clever>
lejonet: that also makes it imposible to share the agent with the nixbld users on a case by case basis
<clever>
lejonet: i have to use socat to proxy it over
<clever>
lejonet: or put the private key into the nix store!
<lejonet>
clever: yay! xD
<lejonet>
I intend to take a sharp eye at the nix-store once I'm done with this ceph shenaningans :P
<sphalerite_>
clever: was it hamachi? I seem to remember something like that
<clever>
sphalerite_: yep, that was it
<clever>
sphalerite_: i modeled toxvpn on the feature-set that hamachi provided
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<i-am-the-slime>
ottidmes: Turning it on instead of kde, and then doing anything in it.
<ottidmes>
i-am-the-slime: If you are new to tiling window managers, I would suggest i3 instead of xmonad, which is more beginner friendly. Or if you insist on xmonad, I found tabbed mode to be an easy way to work when I was new to it, so can at least stay productive in it. But either i3 or xmonad have some learning curve coming from xfce/kde/gnome
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: what language will you write yours in?
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: I think this is the perfect opportunity for learning rust
<infinisil>
My initial prototype is in bash though
<hyper_ch>
why rust?
<ottidmes>
i-am-the-slime: Personally I am a fan of bspwm, which prefer over XMonad even though I love Haskell and the idea of XMonad
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<Aleksejs>
hello, I've installed hplip, but when I run hp-setup I'm getting error: No module named PyQt4.QtGui
<Aleksejs>
I tried to install pyqt4 it didn't help
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: A: wanted to learn it for a while, B: Am a bit sick of haskell because of my irc bot having weird problems, C: A lot of cool modern CLI tools seem to be written in rust, this could be another one, D: The releases every 6 weeks really are motivating
<infinisil>
oh and it's fast of course, and compiled, and has a nice type checker, but i thought those are obvious :)
<lejonet>
Hmm, what is the easiest way to add to the PATH env var that nix automatically adds to systemd.service files, without clobbering it?
<infinisil>
and gchristensen writes his stuff in rust, so that's a motivation too
<hyper_ch>
faster than bash?
* hyper_ch
hides
<i-am-the-slime>
ottidmes: I just saw this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70IxjLEmomg and for the first time I saw a tiling window manager that didn't look like shit
<infinisil>
lol
<lejonet>
hyper_ch: if we can factor in the time to understand bash scripts, even vbscript on a pentium pro is faster than bash ;)
<i-am-the-slime>
I mean the font at the top still looks pretty unbearable but the rest seems pretty neat.
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<infinisil>
i-am-the-slime: this same video made me use xmonad :)
<infinisil>
i think
<hyper_ch>
lejonet: not really sure what you meant to say... bash is simple to understand
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: I'm going to assume and hope this was sacrasm
<lejonet>
hyper_ch: not when people try to create real applications with it xD scripts are usually easy to understand, to some degree
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: depends what part you refer to
* lejonet
is pondering about digging out his friends ~1k loc steganography tool, written in bash....
<i-am-the-slime>
infinisil: Do you have that setup then?
<ottidmes>
i-am-the-slime: Well, there are whole threads on reddit and other forums about ricing, i.e. making your desktop pretty, and that is being done in basicaly any known window manager out there, so that should never be the reason to go for a window manager if you aks me
<infinisil>
I have spent the last couple days writing bash scripts and i'm hating it more and more
<hyper_ch>
I love bash
<Lisanna>
infinisil writing bash scripts is never fun
<Lisanna>
hyper_ch omg
<hyper_ch>
it's so simple and can do just about anything
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<Lisanna>
get out
<lejonet>
hyper_ch: with real application I mean something that isn't meant to be used as a script, but the application, i.e. anything that is supposed to be interactive with the user
<hodapp>
bash smells bad
<i-am-the-slime>
ottidmes: I used i3 for a while some years back. Then I was on OS X and I can't get used to the UX of KDE so I wanted to give xmonad a try. What's shown in the video seems very nice to me.
<hyper_ch>
lejonet: interactive bash scripts are easy
<infinisil>
it's simple, yes, and it works well if you need to do simple things, but if you want to do anything more complicated, not anymore
<lejonet>
hyper_ch: what infinisil said :P
<hodapp>
and rapidly becomes entirely too difficult to control as soon as you are doing anything past "hello world"
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<hyper_ch>
I manage my pdfs in KDE even through bash
<hyper_ch>
combine them, split them, extract text, do OCR, stamp them :)
<lejonet>
masochist...
<hyper_ch>
it's all very simple
<infinisil>
The only reason I'm writing bash scripts is because I'm not confident enough with a better language on linux. Back when I was using OSX I wrote Swift scripts for the things i needed
<i-am-the-slime>
ottidmes: If these things didn't look like shit out of the box I wouldn't have to worry about 'ricing' :D
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<hyper_ch>
next thing the people in here will complain about is probably PHP :)
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<lejonet>
hyper_ch: I've had to work with a bash _framework_ for testing, as in they'd more or less implemented enough bash scripts and hacks, that were used as functions, to make jenkins blush
<lejonet>
I still have nightmares and go to therapy for that... :P
<i-am-the-slime>
alright, I'll just give it ago
<infinisil>
oh lol
<hyper_ch>
no idea what jenkins is
<lejonet>
hyper_ch: xD
<lejonet>
Pretty Horrible Parser
<sphalerite_>
bash isn't too bad, I constantly write little scripts in it, usually straight on the command line
<sphalerite_>
it's certainly got nightmare syntax but it is good at its job
<lejonet>
sphalerite_: for script usage, bash is quite nice yes, but anything above that is usually just insanity
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<hyper_ch>
when is a script not a script anymore?
<catern>
bash should be forbidden
<lejonet>
I'm not saying bash is a bad language period, I'm saying that trying to use it as anything but a scripting language usually spawns a behemoth that eats babies and makes cthulu look like a sheep
<ottidmes>
i-am-the-slime: Well, if you take bspwm as an example, it does not really look like anything, the wallpaper, window switcher, toolbars, are up to you, i3 and xmonad do have a little bit more window decorating going on
<hyper_ch>
the only thing that really bothers me about bash is that's not easy to use variable variables and it can't do decimals
<infinisil>
catern: I'm gonna write an overlay that replaces bash with /bin/false
<lejonet>
hyper_ch: Whenever the script gets more than one usage area (i.e. tries to become a multi-call binary) or larger than 200-300 lines imo
<lejonet>
hyper_ch: read its description "A bunch of bash _scripts_" :P
<hyper_ch>
yep :)
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: where is the report button
<lejonet>
They are small, one-shot, scripts designed to do one job, they are still scripts :P not an application
<hyper_ch>
infinisil: why report button?
<infinisil>
bc bash!
<hyper_ch>
lejonet: :)
<hyper_ch>
and they're very useful with managing pdfs
<lejonet>
infinisil: *gets an anatomy picture thingy* Show me where the terrible bash touched you?
<i-am-the-slime>
infinisil: Do you use the same/a similar configuration as in the video then?
<infinisil>
haha
<Lisanna>
is there an attr in a derivation that I don't know about which controls the context of a string which uses it with ${}? I'm doing a deep copy of all attrs except drvPath from drv1 to drv2 but for some reason drv2 is applying drv1's string context, not its own
<infinisil>
i-am-the-slime: nah, i decided to start fresh and then got discouraged because i couldn't do it, and now I've got a half-assed setup that works for me
<i-am-the-slime>
is the thing also configured through the same dotfiles on nixos or do I have to give options to the package?
<lejonet>
gah, I've yet again forgotten where the generation of systemd.service files are done to give them the final look before being passed to toINI
<hyper_ch>
I just don't get that hatred for bash in here :(
<infinisil>
i-am-the-slime: yeah, same dotfiles, I'm personally using the home-manager xmonad module though
<lejonet>
hyper_ch: bash is generally, from my experience, usually treated like a bad smelling street dog, everyone admits that it has its purpose, but most people don't want to go near it without proper compensation :P
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<i-am-the-slime>
infinisil: no idea what that does
<Lisanna>
hyper_ch like infinisil said, bash works great for very simple things, but as soon as you start needing to do string processing, you start running up against a whole bunch of either very obviously bolted-on functionality or external programs
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<infinisil>
ottidmes: heh yeah, I'm personally always using `atool -x` to unpack stuff, it dynamically chooses the right tool
<sphalerite_>
I usually use tar, because sometime over the past n years it grew the ability to autodetect compression
<hyper_ch>
never heard of atool
<sphalerite_>
so just tar xf file does the job
<hyper_ch>
you could even throw a "v" in there :)
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<infinisil>
Alright but now I shall get started learning/writing rust, I've got 3 days before university starts again
<lejonet>
infinisil: the little I've poked at it has been nice, even tho the syntax really shows that they've glanced a lot at functional languages :P
<ottidmes>
infinisil: Hmm, I have seen that one once but forgotten about it, will add it to my systemPackages, I just always remember `tar -xvzf` and `tar -cvzf` which fits almost all my tar related usage
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<hyper_ch>
infinisil: shouldn't you rather be celebrating and drinking beer instead of learning something new so short before the restart?
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<infinisil>
lejonet: functional is nice, I'm coming from swift which has lots of similarities with rust, including the functional stuff
<lejonet>
infinisil: I haven't come far enough to know if it just looks functional or if it actually has some things borrowed too
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: i don't really go out or drink with people :)
<hyper_ch>
you don't have to go out... you can always make a party at your place and invite them over
<lejonet>
As a slightly more secure version of C I guess it can fit the bill, but its still young and such, so I'm probably going to give it some more time before judging it
<infinisil>
Eh, not the social guy
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<infinisil>
damnit i got so many stuff to code but so little time
<ottidmes>
I do not really have the time for a big project in Rust (I can think of a few) and cannot think of any small useful projects that would need Rust, so it is still on my, maybe sometime list, but definitely want to start using it at some point
<hyper_ch>
oh really? you being in here chatting all the time paints a different picture
<infinisil>
s/many/much
<infinisil>
hyper_ch: this is the internet! IRL I've been living alone for like 2 months now because everybody else is on vacation, and i love it
<hyper_ch>
internet... real life... as if there's such a difference
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<Lisanna>
ugh... I think I'm going to have to bisect the derivation's attrs to find out which one it is that's screwing with the string context...
<ottidmes>
Lisanna: What are these string contexts I see people talk about? I have only ever seen them referenced here on the IRC
<Lisanna>
ottidmes when you do this: string = "path=${hello}"
<Lisanna>
that string has a dependency on drv "hello"
<Lisanna>
that information is tracked in a "string context" in Nix
<Lisanna>
so that if you use that string in a runCommand, "hello" is added as a build input to it, so that it's available in the sandbox
<ottidmes>
Lisanna: Ah, so like a closure (in e.g. JavaScript functions)
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<Lisanna>
there is a secret builtin that strips a string of the context information: builtins.unsafeDiscardStringContext
<ottidmes>
Lisanna: That explains the magic behind why you can write a script with e.g. pkgs.writeScript and it "just works"
<infinisil>
well it's not secret anymore now since you shouted it out in #nixos, goddamnit Lisanna
<lejonet>
Anyone here knows what decides what gets put in Environment="PATH=<bunch of store paths>" in systemd service files and how to add entries to it?
<lejonet>
I know I had found them before, but forgot where :D
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<infinisil>
buovjaga: yeah i saw the posts about oil shell
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<buovjaga>
of course, fertile ground for xkcd standards strip references :)
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<dnovosel>
Quick question, is there a way to set a global proxy.pac url definition in the configuration.nix file?
<sphalerite_>
If anyone else would like to provide an opinion or a heavy-handed overruling merge on the firefox pulse issue https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/35005 please do :)
<Lisanna>
dnovosel you will have extreme difficulty getting a proxy autoconfig file to work with anything other than web browsers
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] nicknovitski opened pull request #35051: govc: init at 0.16.0 (master...govc-init) https://git.io/vACQG
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<dnovosel>
Lisanna: Well that's really what I need it configured for. I mean I can overwrite chromium with CLI options, set options in FF, etc. But I was trying to figure out if there was a system way to set it.
* ToxicFrog
eyes this configure script
<ToxicFrog>
"checking for eog... /usr/bin/eog"
<ToxicFrog>
I know for a fact that is wrong!
<Lisanna>
ToxicFrog assuming you have the sandbox on?
<sphalerite_>
ToxicFrog: non-nixos + no sandbox?
<ToxicFrog>
NixOS, with sandbox, also no GNOME software is installed
<Lisanna>
dnovosel not that I know of. the closest thing to the way that would be implemented if it did exist would be a programs.<browser>.proxy setting or something
<ToxicFrog>
I am 99% confident that EoG isn't in this package's dependencies and 100% sure it wouldn't be in /usr/bin even if it were
<dnovosel>
Okay, thanks Lisanna.
<infinisil>
ToxicFrog: maybe it got patched to use ${nixpath}/bin/eog instead but the stdout output wasn't patched
<Lisanna>
dnovosel I experienced this same sadness a few months ago :) my org's proxy rules are an absolute clusterfsck
<ToxicFrog>
infinisil: I'm writing this package, and based on the other patches I've had to do I think this configure script is just broken
<ToxicFrog>
e.g. it looks for most stuff in $PATH but hardcodes file as /usr/bin/file
<ToxicFrog>
So that needed a patch
<ToxicFrog>
I am not at all surprised there are other landmines in it
<dnovosel>
Lisanna: Yeah.. I mean I have workarounds that work, but since I switched to NixOS recently, I was curious if people had solved it somehow specifically.
<Lisanna>
dnovosel the problem is that the files in those URLs are written in javascript, so any program that would want to correctly parse that even if there were a standard bash env variable to encode it would have to have a javascript interpreter
<genesis>
redondant, pkgname-git-rev we know it's an unstable, put the date why not (YYYY-MM-DD vs YYYYMMDD to process comparaison ...) but unstable ...
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] fare opened pull request #35052: Monthly update (master...master) https://git.io/vACQQ
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vACQd
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master f383c7c Robert Schütz: spectre-meltdown-checker: 0.34 -> 0.35
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 1a1dac7 Joachim F: Merge pull request #35038 from dotlambda/spectre-meltdown-checker...
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<fragamus>
I don't understand why it is so hard to install haskell stack on nixos
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<fragamus>
see my latest problem in lpaste posted above
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<clever>
fragamus: /bin/bash doesnt exist on nixos
<clever>
fragamus: you must use stack --nix mode
<fragamus>
oooohhhhhh
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] nicknovitski opened pull request #35053: reflex: init at 0.2.0 (master...reflex-init) https://git.io/vAC7P
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] rycee pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vAC75
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<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master b614523 Robert Helgesson: perl-Encode: 2.95 -> 2.96
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<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 635ae6d Michael Raskin: Merge pull request #35052 from fare-patches/master...
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<genesis>
joachifm : i've no pb to change to my github account name, but if you can fix it yourself in maintainers.nix, i'd avoid some pb with ofborg ?
<fragamus>
ok so when I do a stack upgrade it makes .local/bin/stack so what is the preferred way to put that in my PATH
<fragamus>
just the usual export in .bashrc ?
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<infinisil>
fragamus: you probably don't want to use stack to install stuff on nixos
<fragamus>
but i want to use stack ghci
<fragamus>
because i love haskell
<fragamus>
I want to use the right nixos way but I dont know the right nixos way
<genesis>
hard to :)
<fragamus>
I tried to install stack in my configuration.nix
<infinisil>
fragamus: just stack ghci? why would you need to add anything to path for this?
<fragamus>
well I might want to use stack to develop libraries etc
<nhill>
So, quick way to specify a specific package version in configuration.nix?
<sphalerite_>
clever: I thought "run ghci" was a comment there
<nhill>
Apparently nodejs-6 is the default in stable
<clever>
and if you want a random package from hackage, nix-shell -p 'haskellPackages.ghcWithPackages (ps: with ps; [ shake ])' --run ghci
<sphalerite_>
nhill: if it's in nixpkgs, just use the appropriate attribute
<clever>
sphalerite_: have you been touching lua? lol
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<nhill>
where do I see the attributes?
<sphalerite_>
clever: no… haskell...
<nhill>
I'm looking using nix-env -qa \* | grep
<clever>
sphalerite_: your dots randomly shrink? lol
<nhill>
is that not the attributes?
<clever>
nhill: i prefer using tab completion with nix-repl '<nixpkgs>'
<fragamus>
clever: awesome
<sphalerite_>
nhill: -qaP will give you the attribute paths along with the names
<lejonet>
srhb: Progress, now I've actually managed to configure my cluster and such, I only need to add 1 daemon type more (ceph-mgr) then I think the service module is good to go :D
<sphalerite_>
clever: not randomly, but sometimes I type compose .. and sometimes I type ... and i'm a bit inconsistent about it :p
<Lisanna>
ugh, I wish there were more ways to manipulate string contexts (safely)
<nhill>
sphalerite_: thanks
<nhill>
Is there a faster way to search for packages?
<sphalerite_>
nhill: yes, use nix-repl as clever suggests, or nox, or nix search (only in nixUnstable currently)
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<Lisanna>
for example, substrings of a string seem to inherit the parent string's context, even if the substring doesn't include the part of the original string which caused the context to be added in the first place
<pikajude>
have any of the attempts to build a progress GUI for nix-build ever yielded fruit
<fragamus>
clever: really awesome thanks
<nhill>
Okay, I will install those
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<sphalerite_>
pikajude: nix build in nixUnstable has pretty progress
<Lisanna>
pikajude what would a progress GUI look like?
<sphalerite_>
pikajude: not GUI though
<clever>
Lisanna: nix doesnt know which characters refer to a given derivation
<Lisanna>
clever I know, it would need a more complex datastructure to represent strings
<sphalerite_>
Lisanna: write a plugin using shlevy's recently added support for them ;)
<pikajude>
Lisanna: hell if i know
<pikajude>
all I know is people have tried to do it
<pikajude>
i mean I'd be fine with just a list of derivations and the name of the phase they're in
<sphalerite_>
pikajude: you can also just nix build -f shell.nix before running nix-shell
<pikajude>
yeah
<pikajude>
i just realized
<pikajude>
i can also set IN_NIX_SHELL=1
<pikajude>
and then it will build the deps i need
<Guest14344>
It looks like there are a few ways to add my own nixos packages.. if I wanted to eventually upstream my package derivations, how should I go about importing them?
<Guest14344>
That's what I'm looking at, but I don't see how to e.g. write a .nix file suitable for eventual inclusion in upstream nixpkgs and use it in an overlay
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Moredread opened pull request #35055: cups-kyocera: Fix spelling mistake in comment (master...spelling) https://git.io/vACFg
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<Lisanna>
ugh, why can't replaceStrings deal with strings that have a context?
<Guest14344>
It seems to be more for customizing existing packages than adding new ones?
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 433b351 Joachim F: Merge pull request #35055 from Moredread/spelling...
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<Guest14344>
Perhaps I should override NIX_PATH ?
<clever>
Guest14344: you can use config.nix or overlays to add new packages
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<prooftechnique>
Is there a one-liner that'll let me look up the store path for a package? Just trying to set RUST_SRC_PATH without having to hardcode it in my config
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<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 7623758 Joachim F: Merge pull request #35051 from nicknovitski/govc-init...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 8c7af33 Nick Novitski: govc: init at 0.16.0
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vACbK
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<clever>
prooftechnique: nix-build '<nixpkgs>' -A hello -o ~/hello will create a symlink at ~/hello that points to the resulting build
<clever>
prooftechnique: you can then use that symlink in the config file and whatever else you want
<sphalerite_>
prooftechnique: I have alias nixpkgs='nix-build '<nixpkgs>' --no-out-link -A'
<sphalerite_>
prooftechnique: then I do nixpkgs hello to get its store path
<sphalerite_>
prooftechnique: as a bonus, that even has tab completion, at least in zsh
<prooftechnique>
Oh, that'd do nicely. Appreciated.
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<prooftechnique>
I may have to mess about to make it play nice with the rust overlay, but that's a great trick :)
<prooftechnique>
I did not have to mess about with it at all, as it turns out. Perfect
<genesis>
i think finally, FOSS lost a lot of good people asking them to lost daylife with arbitrary reviewing.
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<sphalerite_>
prooftechnique: \o/
<sphalerite_>
genesis: yes we get it you don't like that you don't read the instructions and then have people correct the things you did wrong because you didn't read the instructions…
<sphalerite_>
admittedly there are a lot of instructions and it's not reasonable to expect someone to find them all themselves and follow them right from the get-go.
<genesis>
that's a different issue
<genesis>
i fix without any comment when it's legitimate , but sometime i'd spend my time on another battle when it seems to not be so standardize way to do so
<genesis>
anyway, i go to fix tabulation , since it's legitimate.
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<infinisil>
Damnit, cargo can't build a project just like this on nixos, would've been too good to be true
<lejonet>
Wuhu, lift off! I have a functioning ceph cluster, confed by nix :D
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<pikajude>
hmm
<pikajude>
so my haskell package has dependencies based on a configure flag
<pikajude>
is there any sane way to express that in nix
<pikajude>
i can specify flags to cabal2nix to change what dependencies the derivation asks for
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<pikajude>
but that's about it
<infinisil>
lejonet: \o/
<rnhmjoj[m]>
can anyone use grahamc bot to test a PR?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] catern opened pull request #35056: pythonPackages.requests-unixsocket: init at 0.1.5 (master...master) https://git.io/vACxW
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<lejonet>
infinisil: now I just need to add another daemon type, ceph-mgr, because its a requirement for >= 12.0.0 ceph clusters, and then the service module should be ready for PR, then I just need to turn my attention to the python situation for the ceph package
<genesis>
sphalerite_ : have the author's derivation a word on the suggestion , or have to obey to be gentle. it's a real question sometime ...
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<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master da7ab85 Brian McKenna: stride: init at 1.8.18
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<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 2db1b59 Joachim F: Merge pull request #34947 from puffnfresh/package/stride...
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vACxX
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<sphalerite_>
genesis: I'm done discussing this with you. I'd appreciate if you stopped complaining about it here as well, you've made your opinion abundantly clear and it's looks to me like nobody cares for it.
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<sphalerite_>
genesis: I can just put you on ignore but I'd rather not because I would be glad to help you with any questions or engage in valuable discussion. Of course you're free to do as you please but there's what I'd prefer for you to do :)
<prooftechnique>
Anyone else getting CoreFoundation issues on Darwin when trying to build ghcWithHoogle (among others)?
<prooftechnique>
Trying to figure out if I'm missing something obvious or if something's broken
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] bignaux opened pull request #35057: qmc2 : init at 0.192 (master...qmc2) https://git.io/vAChe
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Moredread opened pull request #35058: slic3r-prusa3d: use system version for eigen and glew (master...slic3r-prusa-edition/deps) https://git.io/vAChJ
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<dex1983>
hi
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<dex1983>
What I do if a package in NixOS is missing how I can create a package or install it
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<mredaelli>
hi guys! I have freshly installed my first "serious" NixOS on my laptop. Feeling great so far
<mredaelli>
Question
<mredaelli>
I have several scripts that start with #!/bin/bash , and... there's no /bin/bash ^_^
<symphorien>
use /bin/sh or /usr/bin/env bash and install bash
<mredaelli>
and the env solution will work also in other systems? I'd like to keep the scripts portable
<symphorien>
yes as long as bash is in $PATH
<mredaelli>
cool, thanks. Next thing would be gtk theme, but before asking I'll read some more on Home Manager (or is it too... hacky?)
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<infinisil>
What the hell do people use to develop rust on nixos
<symphorien>
about gtk themes, iirc gtk2 is cannot find them and won't be patched because it is eol
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<symphorien>
infinisil: cargo is fine
<infinisil>
symphorien: it fails to build for me, what magic do i need to get it to work?
<symphorien>
I only have systemPackages = [ cargo ]
<symphorien>
:)
<symphorien>
do not use rustup on nixos
<infinisil>
Hmm, I am using the rustup cargo
<symphorien>
either you are satisfied with what is in nixpkgs, or use the mozilla overlay
<infinisil>
symphorien: oh lol, the non-rustup cargo works
<infinisil>
with the rustup version i get "linker cc not found"
<dex1983>
How I can buid my own packages?
<symphorien>
rustup is a download and run on a presumed FHS system thing, so...
<symphorien>
dex1983: can you elaborate ?
<pikajude>
wow, this nix build output is great
<pikajude>
i love it
<dex1983>
hmm for example when I want google golang install or something elese
<dex1983>
else
<symphorien>
sorry I know nothing about go
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/vAWeg
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<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 26615e1 André-Patrick Bubel: slic3r-prusa3d: enable parallel building
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 8d58c1e André-Patrick Bubel: slic3r-prusa3d: use system version for eigen and glew...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master b9214ee Joachim F: Merge pull request #35058 from Moredread/slic3r-prusa-edition/deps...
<symphorien>
dex1983: there may be a section in the nix or nixpkgs or nixos manual about go packaging, though
<leotaku>
I need some help with a problem I am having: I want to install a package with custom options, to set them I define the new package with "package.overrideAttrs (oldAttrs: rec { somethingSupport = true; });"
<leotaku>
symphorien: all of them, but most importantly "visualizerSupport"
<symphorien>
for the support things in argument at the beginning of the file, you must use override instead of overrideAttr
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<leotaku>
symphorien: like it tells me to in the nixpkgs manual...
<leotaku>
symphorien: I really should read the documentation
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/vAWfe
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 22df03f Stijn DW: ncpamixer: init at version 1.2
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<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 71d1f05 Stijn DW: Add StijnDW to maintainers list
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 3b98744 Joachim F: Merge pull request #34564 from StijnDW/master...
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<infinisil>
symphorien: you're telling me i can use cargo without a nix-shell? :O
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<symphorien>
yes
<infinisil>
amazing
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] jwiegley pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vAWfc
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master d8720dd John Wiegley: compcert: Permit building with Coq 8.7.2
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vAWf5
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<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 70a85de Nick Novitski: dep: enable all platforms
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master fc95437 Joachim F: Merge pull request #35054 from nicknovitski/patch-3...
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<infinisil>
Hold on, are you serious, I have 2 nixpkgs entries in my NIX_PATH for some reason, but sure, it shouldn't matter because it will use the same one anyways in the end
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<infinisil>
Well that's where I'm wrong, because nix-env seems to be using the second entry, whereas nix-build & co. uses the first one...
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<clever>
infinisil: what nix-env command did you run?
<infinisil>
Wait no, something is off, one entry and still different results
<infinisil>
clever: nix-env -iA nixos.cargo
<infinisil>
then cargo --version gives me 0.22.0
<clever>
infinisil: that command totally ignores $NIX_PATH
<infinisil>
Oh?
<infinisil>
ahhh
<clever>
infinisil: that looks in ~/.nix-defexpr/ for the nixos entry
<infinisil>
~/.nix-defexpr
<clever>
yep
<clever>
nix-env -f '<nixpkgs>' -iA cargo
<infinisil>
well damn
<clever>
this one will obey nix_path
<infinisil>
thanks
<clever>
and yes, its weird, nix-env is the only tool in the entire toolbox to use defexpr
<clever>
also, you can trivially add custom things
<infinisil>
and removing everything else from there
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<Guest14344>
So, I have a VM config in ./worker/configuration.nix. I can do `nix-build '<nixpkgs/nixos>' -A config.system.build.novaImage --arg configuration "..."`, where I include the entire configuration file on a single line...
<infinisil>
clever: interesting, will check it out later
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<infinisil>
Alright another rust related question: Now symphorien has said they use cargo build not in nix-shell to build stuff. I discovered i need gcc for this to work. But now I really should use a nix-shell, but how do i get a shell.nix?
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<clever>
infinisil: you can also just nix-shell -p cargo
<clever>
which gives you a shell with gcc and cargo
<infinisil>
Ah yeah, forgot to mention something
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<infinisil>
I need to supply libzfs for the libzfs crate
<clever>
if you need a shell.nix, with import <nixpkgs> {}; stdenv.mkDerivation { name = "name"; buildInputs = [ cargo ]; }
<clever>
if you need a shell.nix, with import <nixpkgs> {}; stdenv.mkDerivation { name = "name"; buildInputs = [ cargo libzfs ]; }
<LnL>
then add another -p flag :)
<infinisil>
nix-shell -p cargo zfs doesn't find it though
<infinisil>
Ah i see, because I'm just getting the error that clang libs aren't found and i should set LIBCLANG_PATH, so I'm just trying lib.getLib clang for now
<LnL>
are you sure it needs the compiler and not just the library?
<symphorien>
but as I said I may get rid of this and write the boilerplate myself
<symphorien>
it needs the library only
<symphorien>
nix-locate did tell me I could find it here when I started that in december
<infinisil>
I'll get this crate compiled eventually just y'all wait
<LnL>
yeah so the problem used to be that the library was part of clang-unwrapped so if you included that you get unwrapped compilers in your path
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<kakuzade>
Hi. Does anyone know how hardware video acceleration is configured correctly? I have the proprietary nvidia drivers and I have installed the libva-full, vaapiVdpau and libvdpau packages. I've tried them and neither vaapi nor vdpau work. Any ideas?
<symphorien>
LnL: "the problem" ?
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<LnL>
if you have an unwrapped compiler it won't find things like libstdcxx
<symphorien>
ah I see
<symphorien>
that's why it moved to .lib ?
<symphorien>
that's what you meant by "separate output" ?
<LnL>
that and closure size, if you're not building the dependency you only need to download the so not the entire compiler
<infinisil>
kakuzade: did you run vainfo and it failed?
<infinisil>
Unable to find libclang: "couldn\'t find any of [\'libclang.so\', \'libclang.so.*\'], set the LIBCLANG_PATH environment variable to a path where one of these files can be found (skipped: [])"
<infinisil>
but i do set that env var in my shell.nix
<infinisil>
That happens when i do nix-shell --run "cargo build"
<symphorien>
ah then libzfs must be using bindgen
<infinisil>
ohh actually yes it does, i didn't even think of that
<infinisil>
so I'll have to copy some stuff of your example i guess