worldofpeace changed the topic of #nixos-dev to: NixOS Development (#nixos for questions) | NixOS 20.09 Nightingale ✨ https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixos-20-09-release/9668 | https://hydra.nixos.org/jobset/nixos/trunk-combined https://channels.nix.gsc.io/graph.html | https://r13y.com | 20.09 RMs: worldofpeace, jonringer | https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-dev
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<siraben> TIL `nix shell nixpkgs#hello` doesn't change your interactive shell anymore, nice
<ashkitten> is that a flakes thing?
<ashkitten> i don't have the command `nix shell`
<artemist> I need to learn how to use flakes
<ashkitten> is the rfc actually merged then?
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<ashkitten> still experimental i see
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<siraben> ashkitten: it's a flakes thing
<siraben> I just enabled it on macOS (though by imperatively installing nixUnstable T.T) to match my setup on NixOS
<siraben> than it was the last time I used flakes
<siraben> The CLI help text looks a lot better
<ashkitten> i'm not sure how i feel about everyone building infrastructure around an experimental feature with no current rfc
<cole-h> I'd call that "experimentation" :P
<ashkitten> it's more than just experimentation at this point
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<siraben> #110912 and #110913 should remove most of the remaining stdenv.lib occurences
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/110912 (by siraben, 39 minutes ago, open): treewide: remove inherited stdenv.lib
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/110913 (by siraben, 26 minutes ago, open): treewide: remove more occurences of stdenv.lib
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<mjlbach> How do you get a derivation's outpath from within the derivation itself?
<mjlbach> I'm trying to patch a hardcoded binary reference from a package that calls itself
<samueldr> AFAIK you can't during nix eval, but when nix makes the derivation `placeholder "out"` can be used in attributes of the derivation and it will be substitued
<samueldr> or, well, $out
<mjlbach> This is during patchPhase :(
<samueldr> $out should already be there
<mjlbach> technically postPatch
<mjlbach> Oh really?
<mjlbach> hmm
<mjlbach> I'm getting undefined variable
<mjlbach> oh
<samueldr> the path has already been defined "at" eval
<samueldr> nix var vs. bash var?
<mjlbach> You got it 😆
<mjlbach> I was trying ${out}
<mjlbach> needless to say, not the first time I've done that
<samueldr> no worries, I get the urge to ${} bash vars
<siraben> > let x = x; in x
<{^_^}> infinite recursion encountered, at (string):471:9
<siraben> supersandro2000: merge #110912 ?
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/110912 (by siraben, 3 hours ago, open): treewide: remove inherited stdenv.lib
<siraben> Oh, what happened 10.5 days ago to cause our packages to drop by 4000 according to repology? https://repology.org/repository/nix_unstable
<supersandro2000> thats usually a sign that something like python37Packages or perlXXXPackages or similar got dropped
<supersandro2000> so now just hope that we do not break things
<siraben> Thanks for the merges.
<siraben> I did them manually and fixed eval errors, but evaluation has never been completely thorough
<siraben> there's so many weird ways people use stdenv.lib...
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<siraben> Where can I find the status of i686 builds on hydra?
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<siraben> So there is only :doc support in the REPL for primops in Nix? https://github.com/NixOS/nix/blob/488a826842296c9c2933fb53cc884ed8518f9110/src/libexpr/primops.cc
<niksnut> siraben: currently yes
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<lukegb> has anyone messed with restricting systemd services so they only have the subset of the /nix/store in scope that they actually need?
<tilpner> Yes, by generating apparmor profiles from the closure
<lukegb> Ah, interesting.
<lukegb> I'm messing with using TemporaryFileSystems/BindReadOnlyPaths
<infinisil> lukegb: The confinement option does that for you I'm pretty sure
<lukegb> Awesome
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<lukegb> No DynamicUser support? :(
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<infinisil> lukegb: Hmm I wonder why..
<qyliss> eek, unstable isn't building, so the sudo update isn't going out
<qyliss> nixos-unstable, that is -- it's a test failure
<ajs124> do we have any plans for adoble flash and the surrounding infrastructure (e.g. nixos/modules/services/networking/flashpolicyd.nix) now that it's officially EOL (outside of mainland china)?
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<worldofpeace> I don't think we should be accepting the sudo update to 20.03 https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/110943
<{^_^}> #110943 (by AmineChikhaoui, 1 hour ago, open): [release-20.03] sudo: 1.8.31 -> 1.9.5p2
<worldofpeace> it's EOL
<aminechikhaoui> :-( I thought important updates can get in still for the current release and the one before it
<sorear> Why do we have that and also https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/110872 ?
<{^_^}> #110872 (by artemist, 22 hours ago, merged): sudo: 1.9.5p1 → 1.9.5p2
<sorear> n/m I see it
<aminechikhaoui> at least I think that was the case for previous releases. domenkozar[m] gchristensen is that right ?
<worldofpeace> I was trying to remember that also. But I think it's confusing to say "this release is EOL and no security updates" and then do a security update, or rather we're saying "This release is in hard maintenance mode and will receive a security update if someone felt like it"
<aminechikhaoui> yeah I think the latter is probably more accurate, it's sort of best-effort updates.
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<worldofpeace> aminechikhaoui: I've advertised 20.03 as EOL https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/101975
<{^_^}> #101975 (by worldofpeace, 12 weeks ago, closed): 20.03 EOL on November 27th
<worldofpeace> so I don't think best effort updates like that fit into the picture
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<aminechikhaoui> ok ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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<symphorien[m]> hum the new package search recommends nix-env on nixos. could we replace that with a recommendation to use configuration.nix ?
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<simonpe^^> hey! what's the current state of the (llvm) libc++ for armv7l? I can't seem to get it to build, it fails on libcxxabi on different things depending on what llvm version I pick and what nixpkgs rev I use
<simonpe^^> It works for aarch64 for any combination of the above that I've tried
<simonpe^^> I'm currently on the latest commit of nixpkgs-unstable
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<ehmry> simonpe^^: which versions are working and which are not?
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<ehmry> if the current llvm version doesn't work then we can move it for armv7l
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<flokli> symphorien[m]: yes, I think so. Can you open an issue?
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<symphorien[m]> [flokli](https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_flokli:matrix.org) done https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-homepage/issues/672
<{^_^}> nixos-homepage#672 (by symphorien, 41 seconds ago, open): Install instruction for nixos in package search recommend nix-env
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<flokli> Thanks!
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<lovesegfault> adisbladis: seems like poetry2nix is broken with nixpkgs master
<lovesegfault> b/c someone moved stuff in lib.platforms around
* samueldr grumbles
<samueldr> it also caused breakage in mobile nixos
<tgamblin-llnl> Hi nixos-dev! I saw some discussion between __monty__ and ehmry on here the other day about spack and solvers so I dropped by to say hi (https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-dev/2021-01-20)
<ehmry> tgamblin-llnl: yea, spack looks interesting but I haven't tried it
<tgamblin-llnl> spack's inspired somewhat by nix (and I guess therefore also guix?) though it's definitely not the same.
<gchristensen> hey hey tgamblin-llnl :)
<tgamblin-llnl> everybody's here!
<tgamblin-llnl> hi gchristensen
<tgamblin-llnl> solver logic is here if you are interested -- it's written in ASP. https://github.com/spack/spack/blob/develop/lib/spack/spack/solver/concretize.lp
<tgamblin-llnl> we're using clingo for that: https://github.com/potassco/clingo
<tgamblin-llnl> also note: "Answer Set Programming", not "Active Server Pages"
<ehmry> tgamblin-llnl: I think I was in the audience for your talk at fosdem
<gchristensen> haha yeah that through me for a loop. aany good links on ASP?
<tgamblin-llnl> it's... a definite learning curve
<tgamblin-llnl> ehmry: cool!
<tgamblin-llnl> Also not sure if folks have seen it, but this paper mentions nix and guix and wonders how long they will go w/o dependency resolution: https://www.gousios.gr/pub/dependency-solving-hard-getting-better.pdf. I thought it was an interesting read :)
<gchristensen> interesting
<gchristensen> we of course do have a dependency solver, but I guess it doesn't count if the system component which does it is the author :P
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<tgamblin-llnl> gchristensen: I think a lot of systems do it that way :)
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<__monty__> tgamblin-llnl: Thanks for linking the paper. Probably won't get around to checking it out any time soon but sounds interesting!
<tgamblin-llnl> __monty__: sure -- it's short and not too deep -- just a high level survey
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<__monty__> I'm not falling for that rabbit hole just because you covered it up with some leaves ; )
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<ehmry> solvers for dependencies is neat, but I think eventually we could use them in generating hardened configurations
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<ehmry> if we increase the granularity of how much stuff nixos configures
<ehmry> but thats way out in the future
<tgamblin-llnl> ehmry: this is kind of what spack does -- packages are parameterized and the solver is finding parameters (versions, build variants, compiler, target arch, etc.)
<tgamblin-llnl> that stuff gets spit out in a lockfile, and you reproduce with packages recipes + lockfile
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<ehmry> tgamblin-llnl: and spack keeps the previous versions of packages available?
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<tgamblin-llnl> in spack there's one package.py for every package -- not separate recipes. so... yes. sometimes we remove stuff that isn't fetchable anymore.
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<ehmry> yea, llvm is a troublemaker
<gchristensen> reminds me of USE flags :)
<tgamblin-llnl> yep it's similar but you can, like, use them in conditional dependencies -- not global like with gentoo where there's just one installation prefix
<gchristensen> yeah, that is neat
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<ehmry> I don't have time to go deep into package dependency resolution, but I'm in a runtime configuration dependency hell that I have to find a way out of
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<tgamblin-llnl> I've seen some interesting work on people using solvers for other types of configuration too
<ehmry> tgamblin-llnl: do you have any links?
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<tgamblin-llnl> it's on using solvers to verify puppet configs
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<tgamblin-llnl> and possibly more here: https://cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Papers/Published/
<ehmry> thanks
<ehmry> I'm trying to do nixos with microkernels and doing the service routing with nix for things like drivers is unpleasant
<ehmry> its bad when the system doesn't boot but its worse if it boots and things aren't routed the way you think they are
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