#nixcon on 2018-10-27

2018-10-25 11:22 zimbatm changed the topic of #nixcon to: NixCon is live! https://www.youtube.com/c/NixCon/ - 25-27 October 2018 - London - https://nixos2018.org , organisation is on https://trello.com/nixcon

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09:00 <zimbatm> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JinmeJHLQdZltk6JPUh4NEqQwluZjhdZR2VWXBfXNBU/edit to write your hackday ideas!

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09:17 <clever> having a look at the minal iso

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09:19 <shlevy> clever: So is fpletz

09:19 <shlevy> Oh you're in the room :D

09:19 <clever> yeah :P

09:20 <clever> i'm also working on wireshark plugin support

09:21 <moredhel> Thanks zimb

09:23 <clever> 551M -r--r--r-- 1 root root 559M Dec 31 1969 nixos-minimal-19.03pre130979.gfedcba-x86_64-linux.iso

09:23 <clever> this is what i'm starting at

09:28 <clever> 27M /nix/store/m7mkpgh50qlb4ssyg6xzd4lrnfg6px7h-grub-2.02

09:28 <clever> 28M /nix/store/20byqhs3nkiz816ck2arjq7d4yw75rsw-grub-2.02

09:28 <clever> fpletz: i notice there are 2 grubs in the iso!

09:28 <jasongrossman> (I won't be at the hackathon but) ooh I love the idea of using it to improve documentation.

09:30 <clever> one is pc, the other is efi

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09:34 <clever> both are in system-path!

09:35 <clever> fpletz: there is no way this is intended

09:36 <Dezgeg> probably it just includes both so that the user doesn't have to download them

09:38 <clever> 486 environment.systemPackages = [ pkgs.grub2 pkgs.grub2_efi pkgs.syslinux ];

09:38 <clever> Dezgeg: must be, since they are on the same line, it looks less like a mistake

10:03 <yorick> adisbladis: check out the SASS_BINARY_PATH env variable ;). node-sass installer uses it instead of going to network

10:10 <yorick> for electron you'd have to use ELECTRON_CONFIG_CACHE :/

10:24 <yorick> shlevy: is require.nix code anywhere?

10:25 <infinisil> yorick: Also wondered about that

10:25 <infinisil> Couldn't findit

10:30 <gchristensen> adisbladis[m]1: adisbladis root@147.75.82.107

10:31 <gchristensen> CPU(s): 56, Intel(R) Xeon(R) Gold 5120 CPU @ 2.20GHz ... 376G free ... 100G of disk... go build binutils :)

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10:37 <shlevy> yorick: infinisil: Doing some design/bikeshedding discussion currently then will clean up what I have and post it over the next few days

10:38 <shlevy> Speaking of... We're currently involved in a discussion on what to call "packages" and "modules" since obviously those names are non-starters. Suggestions welcome :D

10:38 <shlevy> Current front-runner is a nix "flake" for the packages :D

10:41 <yorick> shlevy: it's good to note that the nodejs guy does not really like the npm model and made 'deno' instead

10:41 <yorick> so who is on the nix core team?

10:41 <yorick> (deno just allows heavily cached url imports https://github.com/denoland/deno)

10:42 <clever> niksnut: thanks! :)

10:43 <gchristensen> clever++

10:44 <domenkozar> morning

10:46 <niksnut> thank gchristensen :-)

10:47 <gchristensen> thank samueldr :-)

10:57 <yorick> we could really use a review of https://github.com/NixOS/nix/pull/2409 from someone on the core team :)

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11:07 <yorick> is there an easy way to get the path of a package from the derivation for nix-shell debugging?

11:09 <yorick> (pkg.override { stdenv = null; }).meta.license :P

11:12 <clever> yorick: then stdenv.mkDerivation { meta = ...; } will fail

11:12 <clever> you would have better luck replacing stdenv with identity

11:12 <yorick> clever: yes, and I get the package path in the error message ;)

11:13 <clever> that works, lol

11:13 <clever> > hello.meta.position

11:13 <clever> thats also an option

11:13 <yorick> thanks!

11:13 <clever> and also

11:13 <yorick> that's a better solution :)

11:13 <clever> > builtins.unsafeGetAttrPos "hello" pkgs

11:13 <clever> this tells you where pkgs.hello was defined

11:13 <clever> { column = 3; file = "/nix/store/hszx567ximyymqr7qpf76ns6b06npn0j-nixos-18.09pre150708.083220867c7/nixos/pkgs/top-level/all-packages.nix"; line = 16829; }

11:14 <clever> infinisil: oh, no nixbot in this room

11:14 <shlevy> niksnut: Going to have imports accessible via _.《 in the hacky version :D

11:14 <infinisil> clever: :(

11:16 <yorick> domenkozar: I can do `nix copy` without being a trusted user if the signatures validate, and --substituters also works if there is a trusted substituter set. Why did you need to add to trustedusers?

11:25 <fpletz> clever: oh wow… maybe the efi and legacy versions of grub?

11:26 <clever> fpletz: yep, and thats caused by environment.systemPackages = [ pkgs.grub2 pkgs.grub2_efi pkgs.syslinux ];

11:28 <fpletz> hrm, but we probably want both of them actually

11:29 <fpletz> at least for x86

11:30 <clever> infinisil: https://github.com/NixOS/nix/blob/3cd15c5b1f5a8e6de87d5b7e8cc2f1326b420c88/src/libstore/build.cc#L1667-L1678

11:31 <clever> stderr and stdout of the build both go to worker.hook->fromHook.readSide

11:31 <clever> infinisil: and nix_log_fd is stderr currently

11:31 <clever> so it detects those hooks on both stdout and stderr

11:32 <shlevy> clever: We definitely shouldn't assume that

11:32 <clever> https://github.com/NixOS/nix/blob/6924bdf2bf8f50f2e6ec5d490571594450aba13a/src/libutil/logging.cc#L188

11:32 <shlevy> NIX_LOG_FD env var

11:33 <fpletz> turns out gtk isn't included in recent minimal isos anymore, maybe somebody already fixed it :)

11:33 <clever> shlevy: yeah, i can see how the idea is to have a dedicated pipe() in the future

11:34 <clever> shlevy: and it just happens to currently use stderr, which is also stdout

11:34 <niksnut> fpletz: oh yeah, that was probably me

11:34 <niksnut> or maybe not

11:35 <niksnut> I disabled udisks in the EC2 image

11:35 <Dezgeg> udisks is already disabled in installers

11:35 <fpletz> yup, also noticed that right now

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11:38 <Dezgeg> I am currently trying to slim down spidermonkey_52

11:38 <nh2> basvandijk: `import (fetchTarball https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/archive/a2845aa0.tar.gz) {};`

11:39 <fpletz> has anybody tried to split up the kernel modules?

11:39 <fpletz> we build lots of modules most people won't need

11:39 * gchristensen watches on excitedly

11:43 <fpletz> oh, and the nonfree firmware of course

11:46 <shlevy> fpletz: It's in principle doable, but you have to keep around the kernel source tree

11:46 <niksnut> reducing kernel modules is hard because you can't really predict what modules people will need

11:47 <shlevy> niksnut: you can configure for all of them but only build the used ones

11:47 <shlevy> Each in its own derivation

11:47 <shlevy> But unpacking the tarball is too slow for that

11:47 <niksnut> yeah but I think we're talking about the installer media here

11:48 <shlevy> Oh right

11:48 <shlevy> Sorry, was thinking about build process

11:48 <fpletz> due to depmod? can't we just build all the modules and put them into different outputs and link them together in nixos?

11:49 <shlevy> fpletz: but you want hte installer to Just Work on everyone's machine

11:49 <shlevy> We could provide a smaller module closure easily

11:49 <fpletz> shlevy: sure, but you won't need stuff like dvb/video stuff for instance

11:49 <shlevy> Sure. That's technically straightforward once we have the list to omit

11:52 <basvandijk> nh2: I added some code here: https://github.com/LumiGuide/nixpkgs/tree/activate-net-test

11:57 <clever> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/master/nixos/modules/services/x11/desktop-managers/default.nix#L76-L80

12:00 <clever> https://github.com/taktoa/hsdm/

12:04 <snajpa> please guys, how can I test for existence of an attribute in another attrset, when defining the first said attrset? I have a file https://paste.vpsfree.cz/5DNyQUGl/ - documentation.nixos.enable didn't exist in 18.03, but it does in 18.09, so I'd like to set it if it's avail (I want to do that with documentation.enable as well, which is were I started)

12:04 <snajpa> I got as far as here, but I'm hitting infinite recursion at hasAttrByPath: https://paste.vpsfree.cz/ByFm4F-t/

12:05 <snajpa> how can this be done properly?

12:06 <clever> snajpa: have you tried documentation.nixos ? enable

12:06 <clever> it should return a bool

12:06 <clever> you may need to check under options.documentation.nixos ? enable

12:07 <snajpa> a ha, didn't occur to me that I can try to ask if documentation.nixos has enable

12:07 <snajpa> will try

12:07 <clever> infinisil: the wireshark PR from earlier allows https://github.com/cleverca22/tox_decoder to be compiled a lot more easily

12:07 <snajpa> but the section after "in", doesn't let any "IF" in

12:08 <snajpa> that one I have commented out, there apparently can't be any conditional like that...

12:11 <clever> snajpa: you also need an else clause

12:11 <snajpa> https://paste.vpsfree.cz/hVmo7T99/ -> infinite recursion encountered, at /nix/store/ag7pjmzkd1hmfvl64428qfym92wpxqx8-nixos-18.09-small.tar.gz/lib/modules.nix:163:28

12:11 <clever> if <bool> then <value> else <value>

12:11 <snajpa> there's else { }

12:11 <clever> an if must always have all 3

12:11 <snajpa> yep, I've already figured that one out :D

12:11 <clever> https://paste.vpsfree.cz/ByFm4F-t/#L-26 is lacking an else in the comment

12:11 <clever> you also cant put an if inside a set like that

12:12 <clever> a set if a list of key=value; pairs

12:12 <clever> and an if statement is a value

12:12 <snajpa> oh yeah, I didn't touch the comment, once I figured that out

12:12 <clever> so you want something more like mkIf

12:12 <snajpa> so I tried to put that on let section and then merge it at the end

12:12 <clever> documentation.nixos = lib.mkIf (bool) { enable = true; };

12:13 <snajpa> but if I reference pkgs.anything in the let section, I'm at inf recursion

12:13 <snajpa> clever: that would return an error for 18.03, documentation.nixos isn't there I think

12:13 <snajpa> which is the point of this, set it only if it's available to be set

12:14 <clever> documentation = lib.mkIf (bool) { nixos.enable = true; };

12:14 <snajpa> ok will try, thx

12:29 <disasm> LnL: https://github.com/input-output-hk/iohk-ops/blob/master/nix-darwin/PrepareDarwin.hs https://github.com/input-output-hk/iohk-ops/blob/master/nix-darwin/deploy-darwin.hs -- Those are the scripts IOHK is using for deploying macs remotely.

12:35 <disasm> https://github.com/input-output-hk/iohk-ops/blob/master/nix-darwin/deploy-darwin.hs#L35-L38 is the most important part, that builds it and sets a gcroot and runs the activate script in the build: https://github.com/input-output-hk/iohk-ops/blob/master/nix-darwin/deploy-darwin.hs#L35-L50

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12:40 <xeji> gchristensen: now i'm online :)

12:41 <LnL> disasm: yeah, I've seen that before but I'm not sure where to go from there, kind of depends what people want

13:05 <yorick> is there a mkRenamedOptionModule for submodules?

13:05 <edef> excited to see what'll come of the hack day, but unfortunately not doing super well today - i hope everyone has fun!

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13:14 <gchristensen> edef: head sick?

13:14 <gchristensen> I have a head cold :(

13:16 <edef> this biological system apparently cannot handle a single glass of cider properly in its current configuration

13:17 <gchristensen> OH! :) I'm sorry, I hope it passes!

13:17 <edef> and thus both my nightrest and my morning were Bad

13:17 <edef> i don't even have a proper hangover, it's just an odd sense of being .. disrupted in some fashion

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13:34 <snajpa> clever: ...this is actually exactly what I needed: https://nixos.wiki/wiki/NixOS_Modules#Compatibility_Issues_with_Different_Nixpkgs_Versions I just didn't know how to ask

13:35 <clever> snajpa: ah, didnt think an answer was already in the wiki

13:35 <snajpa> the wiki is awesome!

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13:45 <snajpa> clever: yet that won't let me test if config.documentation exists, because I have to assign to documentation =, so that I can use // to expand it conditionally...

13:46 <snajpa> I tried to add // at the very end, but ended up with the same recursion as when I did it in the let

13:48 <snajpa> this is what I'm trying what leads to the recursion:

13:48 <snajpa> https://paste.vpsfree.cz/neVR:_m9/

13:49 <snajpa> in 18.03 there is no documentation to assign to in the first place :(

13:49 <srk> proly options instead of config

13:50 <srk> hmm

13:51 <clever> snajpa: try testing options ? documentation.nixos.enable

13:51 <clever> snajpa: thats in a seperate tree, so it wont depend on what you assign to config

13:52 <snajpa> infinite recursion encountered, at /nix/store/ag7pjmzkd1hmfvl64428qfym92wpxqx8-nixos-18.09-small.tar.gz/lib/modules.nix:62:71

13:52 <snajpa> :'(

13:53 <snajpa> the test looks like this now:

13:53 <snajpa> if builtins.hasAttr "enable" (builtins.head options.documentation.type.getSubModules).submodule.options

13:53 <snajpa> ? documentation.enable # is about the same

13:53 <snajpa> also inf. recursion

13:53 <clever> snajpa: what about documentation = lib.mkIf (options ? documentation.nixos.enable) { nixos.enable = true; };

13:54 <snajpa> there's no documentation = to assign to in 18.03

13:54 <snajpa> that's precisely what I'm trying to conditionally do - assign to documentation.anything only if documentation.* exists at all

13:54 <clever> config = mkIf (options ? documentation.nixos.enable) { documentation.nixos.enable = true; };

13:55 <snajpa> aha that didn't cross my mind to try

13:55 <snajpa> sec

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13:57 <clever> just note, that if you assign config, you must put all config in config

13:57 <clever> so any other attrs in the file may become invalid

13:57 <snajpa> just noticed

13:58 <clever> do you need to, config = lib.mkMerge [ (lib.mkIf ..) { services.foo.enable = true; } ];

13:58 <clever> mkMerge can take several configs and merge them together

13:58 <snajpa> \o/

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14:17 <manveru> https://gist.github.com/manveru/5145caf1e162d06260fcbda257f6b5d2

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14:19 <shlevy> Have a roadmap for flake.nix (new name of require.nix) up at https://github.com/orgs/nix-community/projects/1. I have a bunch of tickets with "Help Wanted" there, plus all of the "notes" could easily be picked up by others.

14:19 <shlevy> I'm next working on finalizing the bootstrapping code so people can start playing around with it.

14:20 <niksnut> how does nix-community/projects relate to rfcs?

14:20 <shlevy> If anyone is interested in participating in any fashion, even just code rview, please let me know!

14:20 <shlevy> niksnut: I think nix-community is intentionally more of a wild-west

14:20 <shlevy> IMO we should use the NixOS git org for "official" projects that span more than one repo

14:21 <shlevy> but I'll defer to zimbatm here :)

14:24 <zimbatm> niksnut: nix-community is a project incubator that works in parallel of the NixOS org

14:25 <zimbatm> it's useful to community-maintained projects that don't necessarily make it upstream

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14:27 <nh2> basvandijk: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/47252

14:38 <yorick> funfact: the local network seems to be stripping out AAAA responses from dns packets?

14:42 <disasm> yorick: I wouldn't know, my DNS is coming across the VPN :)

14:43 <clever> yorick: i can confirm, `dig foo AAAA` returns nothing, for a domain that definitely has ipv6

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15:08 <clever> infinisil: https://lwn.net/Articles/758353/

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15:11 <clever> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/49202 is what brought cake to my attention

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15:13 <clever> disasm: new message for the phone!

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15:18 <nh2> fpletz basvandijk: https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/Netzkonfiguration_Debian/en

15:18 <nh2> > our infrastructure rejects any Ethernet packets that are not addressed to the gateway address

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15:24 <fpletz> nh2: hetzner… then why do they make you configure subnets at all? %)

15:26 <clever> disasm: ping

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15:32 <nh2> fpletz basvandijk: Currently investigating the `local_commands` involved; originally added by aszlig in https://github.com/NixOS/nixops/commit/2fd8815692fbe7b94323c130b7d8dbfcd96fd49d#diff-7259d5ab65f159f2ab8a41642cc9b669R396 -- that certainly shows the same intent as we have here but does it with a route change

15:33 <nh2> aszlig: you aren't over here are you?

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17:04 <clever> infinisil: and +1 to issues! https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/49287

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17:11 <clever> infinisil: +1 to PR's https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/49291

17:20 <clever> infinisil: https://github.com/cleverca22/nixos-configs/blob/master/core.nix#L127-L129 can also maybe be useful

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17:23 <domenkozar> my hackathon result (it works!): https://github.com/domenkozar/hnix-lsp

17:24 <sphalerite> domenkozar++

17:24 <disasm> domenkozar++

17:27 <tazjin> domenkozar: awesome!! Did you make sure that it crashes every 10 seconds, in line with LSP-backend tradition? :P

17:27 <tazjin> my hackathon result: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/49275

17:28 <domenkozar> tazjin: it doesn't crash

17:28 <domenkozar> but it takes long to format 12k lines of code :P

17:33 <clever> gchristensen: what has happened with the github syntax? https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/b43c4d8b758a3965067b24f3796cdd532756a2ce/nixos/modules/services/networking/resilio.nix#L35

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18:39 <drakonis1> okay so today's the hacking day

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19:22 <vcunat> BTW, in case some of you are flying tomorrow from Southend, note that the train doesn't go, so the route is a bit different and takes significantly longer time. That's the reason why I didn't come even for a while today.

19:23 <vcunat> (To be clear, only weekends are supposed to be affected.)

19:24 <infinisil> domenkozar++

19:26 <aszlig> nh2: unfortunately i'm not :-/

19:26 <aszlig> nh2: i have refactored exactly that already

19:26 <aszlig> nh2: but didn't have a chance to test it

19:27 <clever> vcunat: i have a flight at ~6am monday morning, how will that effect me?

19:28 <aszlig> nh2: i'll send you the diff once i'm properly awake

19:28 <vcunat> clever: Monday trains shouldn't be affected, according to my source: https://southendairport.com/getting-to-and-from/trains

19:29 <clever> vcunat: i think thats seperate from hearthrow?

19:30 <aszlig> nh2: never mind: https://gist.github.com/aszlig/84e9bf4c8c2a06e77e43d64f89a5c2fc

19:31 <vcunat> clever: what I wrote only considers the Southend airport

19:31 <vcunat> (London has quite a bunch of airports nearby)

19:31 <clever> yeah

19:31 <clever> ah, i forgot to mention hearthrow in the initial question, thought i did

19:32 <vcunat> yorick: stripping AAAA from DNS seems relatively common practice for networks that don't support IPv6. Sometimes they even intercept packets, e.g. I've had ping to 8.8.8.8 less than 1 ms on a hotel WiFi.

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19:32 <vcunat> (That was actually when I was for the previous NixCon.)

19:33 <clever> vcunat: ive also seen some hotels that allow udp 53, even if you dont accept the captive portal

19:33 <vcunat> I understand the optimizing intention, but modifying DNS can be troublesome.

19:33 <clever> vcunat: and if you make a vpn over udp 53 ....

19:33 <vcunat> Yes, even tunnelling over DNS protocol exists because of that.

19:58 <lassulus> nh2: if you are interested in the progress of nix-writers: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/49290

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22:08 <nh2> lassulus: I am! Unfortunately our own project at fixing network disconnects didn't go as quickly as expected so I couldn't come over and look during the conference

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23:38 <domenkozar> aszlig: too bad you didn't make it this year :)

23:38 <aszlig> domenkozar: yeah :-(

23:39 <aszlig> although i intend to at least to go to fosdem

23:39 <aszlig> however, i will have to watch all the talks during the next few days :-D