<rrix>
hello, can someone help me understand how to change the timezone of an emacs running in home-manager on a "regular" linux? my system is passing TZ=America/Los_Angeles but my emacs and coreutils date thinks the TZ offset is 0 and adding pkgs.tzdata to my home.packages and ran tzselect but that's not really doing anything.
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<supersandro2000>
searching for the stdenv.lib left in my env for weeks
<pie_>
supersandro2000: i was gonna say "if only there was a way to list all the places expressions come from" but actually -v lists every file thats evaled so i guess that should work
<Unode>
hi everyone, is it normal configuration for NixOS to have two entries in /etc/hosts , one for localhost on 127.0.0.1 and another for the machine hostname on 127.0.0.2?
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<cole-h>
yep
<Unode>
I'm getting into the strange situation where Ferdi launches a server in hostname:port but then fails to connect because it assumes 127.0.0.1
<Unode>
and hostname != 127.0.0.1
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<illustris>
Is morph safe to use? I started using it because I didn't want to manage the statefile in nixops, but it looks like the morph repo has had no activity in 6 months. Does anyone know if the project has been abandoned?
<gurjeet>
I deleted a tar.xz file from nix store. Now when I try to build an expression I get the error the file is missing. Is there a way to download the missing file from cache.nixos.org and place it in the store?
<clever>
gurjeet: run `touch` on that path to make it again, then run `nix-store --delete` on the path, and next time, always use `nix-store --delete` to delete files
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<bb_>
Hi, so how are you folks organizing aliases
<bb_>
I tried using home-manager sessionVariables and bash option sessionVariables. It does not know about HOME, can't use other varibles unless we use stuff like: BAR = "${config.home.sessionVariables.FOO} World!";
<bb_>
if my aliases use variables, it seems better just to use an external file and source it
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<bb_>
same applies for aliases and variables of course
<maralorn>
sterni: Ah, yeah. I know that one. No, I mean the IOHK haskell.nix. I am trying to play around with it a bit to judge it's merits compared to our haskellPackages.
<maralorn>
sterni: There was a point this weekend were I was completely fed up with how maintenance heavy our infrastructure is. peti does not want to do it anymore. And I wouldn‘t wish it onto anyone to step in his shous. A huge rethinking of the infrastructure would be the way to go. The tooling and the automation could get much better. But that would require a lot of work and I don‘t know who could do that. (In there free time.)
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<maralorn>
In contrast IOHK is a big company maintaining haskell.nix …
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<Izorkin>
aanderse: Looked at the new version of php-fpm. I think that the old version with modifications will be better - it is more convenient to read the configuration. In the new version, it is more difficult to understand the configuration.
* etu
is thinking about packaging a thing for dynamic wallpapers that contains very high-res images and don't see any point in caching it
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<andi->
not sure that is a good idea if there is one.... I would like all my dependencies to always be in my binary cache regardless of any attributes applied to them.
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<maralorn>
etu: There is a meta attribute that can be set which tells hydra what to do with it.
<maralorn>
sterni: From what I can tell they use either stack or cabal to create a build plan and then build the package with that build plan. So they don‘t have a concept of a global blessed package set.
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<maralorn>
etu: the meta attribute in question is: `hydraPlatforms = lib.platforms.none;`.
<sterni>
etu: meta.hydraPlatforms = []
<sterni>
maralorn: yeah that makes it much easier
<maralorn>
Regarding the concerns of andi-, I have no clue if that flag is respected by every hydra or just by the nixos hydra.
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<yaymukund>
gonna try to get jack working today. I found the wiki page a bit... daunting
<sterni>
maralorn: but this invites the thing you don't want in nixpkgs from which rust packages and go packages suffer where you have a package specific closure
<sterni>
maralorn: haskell.nix probably uses ifd for the resolving?
<sterni>
andi-: gchristensen yesterday explaint to me that hydraPlatforms only is used when figuring out which jobs to build, but if another job hits that derivation as a dependency it is built regardless of hydraPlatforms apparently
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<yaymukund>
actually, I'm going to give pipewire a shot. very exciting!
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<etu>
yaymukund: woo!
<sterni>
yaymukund: only hearing good things from nixos users so far, I'll also have to switch
<etu>
yaymukund: I've recently switched from pulseaudio to pipewire, it's great
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<matthewcroughan_>
I'd like to start getting a friend using it.
<matthewcroughan_>
What would be the correct way to share it without it being in Nixpkgs?
<sterni>
matthewcroughan_: you can add imports = [ /path/to/node-red.nix ]; to your system configuration and the module becomes available as if it were in nixpkgs
<s1341_>
hi.
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<s1341_>
so i have a single-user install on top of ubuntu, and building doesn't seem to use all my cores or run jobs in parallel...
<s1341_>
i have passed --max-jobs auto and --cores 200 to nix-shell, but it doesn't seem to work.
<maralorn>
sterni: Yes, you are correct on both points. The package specific closure is a problem. And they use ifd extensively. (They explicit say somewhere in the documentation that they don‘t agree that the problems of ifd outweigh the benefits.) But I think you can use it without ifd, if you already have the cabal generated buildplan in a json file.
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<sterni>
maralorn: it's not *as* bad as for go and rust because we wouldn't have a fixed-output vendor derivation
<sterni>
but still we would have many different versions of packages in nixpkgs
<sterni>
but yeah could be cool
<sterni>
something to experiment at least if it offers any benefits if we reuse something like stackage.nix and hackage.nix
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<s1341_>
anyone?
<sterni>
maralorn: wait no there is a problem with this approach
<sterni>
maralorn: existing shell.nix based on haskellPackages will break
<maralorn>
sterni: I don‘t know. From what I can tell it is just a lot more flexibel. Because it can build basically any build plan. So if our only issue is, that we have the "better build plan" we can still try to create one ourselves.
<sterni>
maralorn: if you depend on package a and b who have independent closures except for package c then propagation could mean that it breaks when the build plan for a and b choose different versions of c respectively?
<sterni>
I think we could do something like that but it'd mean our package set wouldn't be homogenous anymore
<maralorn>
sterni: Well, I think there are a lot of issues with using haskell.nix in nixpkgs. (Beginning with the fact that using the haskell.nix library itself would be ifd or we would need to merge it completely into nixpkgs …)
<sterni>
we may run into issues if there are multiple options for a built plan and but only one to ensure compatibility
<sterni>
maralorn: yeah I mean, obviously we'd need to implement a lot of stuff additionally, but we'd be able to copy some stuff over right?
<sterni>
haskell.nix is probably MIT-compatible?
<maralorn>
I fear that even bringing up this idea will hit a hornets nest.^^
<maralorn>
I feel like it’s a bit comparable with the cabal vs. stack situation.
<maralorn>
Both solutions have their strengths.
<maralorn>
But what we really would want in nixpkgs is neither what we have nor haskell.nix …
<maralorn>
sterni: I am not sure how long you’ve been following the stream. peti and I had extensive discussion about how our dream setup would work. It was actually a quite detailed vision.
<maralorn>
in the last months.
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<maralorn>
But right now it exists basically in our two heads and we both have nearly no capacities to implement any of it …
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<maralorn>
That’s why haskell.nix is intriguing. For downstream power users they way of least resistance might be to abandon nixpkgs and it’s structural constrains and just use something else.
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<maralorn>
Leaving nixpkgs Haskell maintenance in the hands of a few volunteers who can barely keep the machine running.
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<maralorn>
Sorry, that I am so negative about this right now.^^
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<yaymukund>
ok, wow, i am grinning so wide rn because I just got pipewire setup I think. i did not have to do anything more than add 5 lines to my config, rebuild, and reboot (i dont even know if rebooting was necessary, but I did it anyway bc systemd is involved...)
<yaymukund>
so cool!
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<s1341_>
how do I set a socks5 proxy for the nix daemon?
<s1341_>
on a non-nixos install?
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<sterni>
maralorn: when was that? was that the late night stream when I had to leave?
<sterni>
I afraid I didn't catch that anymore
<sterni>
been missing you ever since :(
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<patagonicus>
Does nixpkgs have units for large byte values predefined? Something like 3 * MiB or MiB(3) for 3 * 1024 * 1024.
<sterni>
guess you were busy on friday nights
<maralorn>
sterni: Hm, no. It was more like an on-and-off discussion from last november until january/february.
<sterni>
ah I see, no probably missed that
<sterni>
I only recently managed to consistently not forget the stream :p
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<maralorn>
sterni: I have joined him most fridays since the beginn of the pandemic.
<sterni>
maralorn: just meant last week and the week before (i think?)
<maralorn>
Oh, yeah: One of the most anoying things to do with nix is calculating bitmasks for ip addresses. There is nearly nothing builtin to make that joyful.^^
<maralorn>
sterni: I‘ll be back. I just had random (digital) social events in the last weeks. And you know how it is. When someone asks you „Do you have time for movie night on friday“ you don‘t see. No I need to watch a twitch stream of someone merging a pull request on github. ;-)
<matthewcroughan_>
sterni: What I mean is, there's no speciality in how it's imported?
<matthewcroughan_>
Nix code is imported as nix code. The fact that it's an OS module doesn't mean it's special?
<b1Rd>
Hi.
<matthewcroughan_>
The fact that it's a service doesn't mean you have to import it from a specific path. That it has to be in <nixpkgs>, etc? Nothing hardcoded?
<jiibus>
Hello, trying to install nixos for the first time, getting an openssl error that causes the build to fail. I suspect it could be due to a dependency of a package I put in environment.systemPackages. Not sure how to figure out which one it is though
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<matthewcroughan_>
This is a good example of baking u-boot into installer images for a specific board.
<matthewcroughan_>
maralorn: a BSP would also include C drivers and more fora given piece of hardware, outside of the kernel because they're not upstreamed.
<matthewcroughan_>
this is the difficult part
<matthewcroughan_>
what do you think clever?
<simpson>
matthewcroughan_: Broadly, no; there's a difference between a collection of hardware using standard busses, and a system-on-chip or other commingled hardware module.
<matthewcroughan_>
The BSP provided by Yocto/Buildroot makes sure hardware works and is maintained by the vendor, if stuff is not being upstreamed for various SOC/SBCs.
<matthewcroughan_>
If Nix wants to be embedded, basically support for awkward hardware is basically a must. And I want it to work in this context.
<matthewcroughan_>
I used basically twice because I'm overexcited about embedded Nix :D
<maralorn>
matthewcroughan_: There was a discussion about this on the discord a while ago.
<simpson>
Concretely, what doesn't work for you right now?
<matthewcroughan_>
>I've just started a new contract where I'll be building a Linux OS to an arm iMX8 device for the client using Yocto
<matthewcroughan_>
Getting NixOS *fully working* on hardware, if the Linux kernel doesn't have the drivers, is hard. Right?
<matthewcroughan_>
Imagine all the maintenance you must subscribe to *yourself*.
<matthewcroughan_>
In Yocto, the company (NXP) who makes the imx8mmevk board, maintain this thing called a BSP (board support package) which ensures that the board's hardware is fully supported, outside of the upstream Linux kernel.
<matthewcroughan_>
Yes, this is terrible. But it's how it works commercially.
<simpson>
What have you tried so far?
<simpson>
It's not really our problem if folks want to be masochistic and use Yocto or etc. It's also not really our problem if they're getting paid for it.
<matthewcroughan_>
Talking to people on the internet, I've tried nothing, I just know it's not going to work based on reading.
<matthewcroughan_>
I've gotten the Orange Pi 3 running with NixOS. I got U-Boot working on that, and most of the drivers are in the kernel.
<matthewcroughan_>
But.. If the drivers **were not** in the kernel, how would I make it work?
<simpson>
(Writing Linux drivers is not the same as getting a distro up and running. The hackery of writing drivers quickly becomes a custom development loop which doesn't involve distro tools, just deployment and debugging tools.)
<Ke>
if you need to patch mesa or something, it can be hard, but kernels in nixos are trivial
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<simpson>
matthewcroughan_: Then you would roll up your sleeves and write C.
<matthewcroughan_>
How would I "support" the device with NixOS functions? How could I have it be that the non-trivial patches and drivers are present for the orange pi device?
<matthewcroughan_>
simpson: the drivers exist, I don't have to write any C.
<matthewcroughan_>
All I have to do is find a way to make a function that modifies the installer image or something.
<matthewcroughan_>
It's very simple, how do we get out-of-linux drivers working on hardware?
<Ke>
if it's an u-boot device, you can just install to a directory and copy the files over
<matthewcroughan_>
can I load `orangepi3-drivers.nix`? How would I make such a thing? Are there examples?
<simpson>
matthewcroughan_: Oh! Well, I have no polite words for out-of-tree drivers, sorry. All drivers should be in-tree, GPL, no exceptions.
<ajs124>
you can just build their kernel fork, can't you?
<simpson>
But AIUI we have tools for patching and building arbitrary kernels.
<matthewcroughan_>
simpson: Nix is LGPL for a reason, I presume? Do you like money and life?
<matthewcroughan_>
Do you think people should be able to get paid for using Nix?
<matthewcroughan_>
Do you think that Nix is a better tool for creating embedded devices?
<matthewcroughan_>
ajs124: that's a good point, I need to look more into it.
<simpson>
matthewcroughan_: Relax already. Do *you* like kernel drivers? Do you think that people like me should bother writing drivers for people like you?
<Ke>
nixos does package out of tree things, like ZFS
<Ke>
just look at those modules
<matthewcroughan_>
Ke: thank you :D
<simpson>
I think that pkgs/os-specific/linux/device-tree/ is where folks can put collections of DTBs, if that's necessary.
<matthewcroughan_>
It's pretty bad, a BSP is so loosely defined. I need to look into what it really means, such BS terminology.
<simpson>
matthewcroughan_: To be super-clear: I think that Yocto/Bitbake/etc. are *terrible* tools for doing anything whatsoever, and so Nix wins by default just by being half-decent. So it doesn't really move me to hear that Yocto has corporate buy-in; all we need is for corporations to publish the code, and we can figure out the rest.
<matthewcroughan_>
simpson: I agree completely, which is why I'm fighting to try and get myself out of using those tools.
<rrix>
Can someone help me understand how to change the timezone of an emacs running in home-manager on a "regular" linux? my system is passing TZ=America/Los_Angeles but my emacs and coreutils date thinks the TZ offset is 0. tried things like adding pkgs.tzdata to my home.packages and ran tzselect but that's not really doing anything.
<matthewcroughan_>
As far as I can tell, as long as we have 1. The kernel config 2. The u-boot config 3. The DTBs, I think that's a BSP.
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<matthewcroughan_>
the problem is that they all will contain components that are 100% not upstreamed. So that's what a BSP is, a failure to upstream.
<Ke>
that's what I always thought, but I believe most companies think it's 100% added value and competititve advantage
<simpson>
Ke: Having worked on a few of those projects, it's 90% management refusing to prioritize doing things the Right Way and making upstreamable code to begin with, and 10% legal or licensing problems from using Somebody Else's IP.
<matthewcroughan_>
Have you read the mega-manual? :D
<matthewcroughan_>
>The BSP captures all the hardware-specific details in one place in a standard format, which is useful for any person wishing to use the hardware platform regardless of the build system they are using.
<matthewcroughan_>
Maybe we can literally support Yocto BSPs in Nix..
<matthewcroughan_>
>regardless of the build system they are using
<matthewcroughan_>
They then go on to show you a directory structure with some bbappend files in it.. Hnnnnnngghh
<matthewcroughan_>
pie_: It's just some documentation that makes you laugh.
<matthewcroughan_>
They say that this format is build system independant, meanwhile they have a bunch of Yocto specific BS present in the format, meanwhile pretending it's a standard.
<vikanezrimaya>
Ugh. Trying to set up Hydra on a spare machine to iron out my configs and make the machine actually useful until it can run its intended job properly, but I can't make the `boot.binfmt.emulatedSystems` work with Hydra. The setting itself works fine and I can confirm I'm executing aarch64 code on the build host, but Hydra refuses to build
<vikanezrimaya>
aarch64-linux job on a x86_64-linux machine and just aborts them.
<andoriyu>
I need some help with nixos. multiple problems. first one: I'm using sxhkd and it looks like it runs without my home-manager's env.
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<andoriyu>
and the second one is how do I configure monitors correctly without DE settings application
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<vikanezrimaya>
andoriyu: it seems like lightdm can run a custom script before showing the login prompt, allowing you to configure your monitors with xrandr: https://gist.github.com/ciarand/8592193
<vikanezrimaya>
`services.xserver.displayManager.lightdm.extraConfig` allows you to write to lightdm's main config file
<coloneljohnby[m]>
i want to run nix with wsl, but it looks like there isn't an official build for a wsl with nixos. so what's the best wsl distro to go with — arch, debian or ubuntu?
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<vikanezrimaya>
coloneljohnby[m]: There are ways to run NixOS - sort of - on WSL. https://github.com/Trundle/NixOS-WSL - this one even support systemd in a PID namespace, giving you the ultimate NixOS experience
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<vikanezrimaya>
But if you want a distro, go with whatever you're most comfortable with, since you might need to fix some of that distro's environment to make it work with Nix
<coloneljohnby[m]>
yeah, but i'm just trying it out, so i rather avoid experimental stuff until i have a better grip on how things work.
<yagoham>
I'm getting an error "'outputs' at /nix/store/6mkkyfwwazsh87j2b0wdzx9ryjwckval-source/flake.nix:4:13 called without required argument 'nixpkgs'" while trying to build on enter a shell on the following simple flake: https://github.com/yannham/chrysto/blob/master/flake.nix. Using the compat code or directly nixUnstable with flakes enable doesn't make a difference. Any idea about what happens? Am I specifying
<vikanezrimaya>
despite having a non-standard DPI monitor myself I'm not familiar enough with these settings, considering I like small HiDPI displays a lot
<vikanezrimaya>
Mine's not too small so I just leave the scaling settings off both in Windows and NixOS
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<matthewcroughan_>
Are there any examples of metamodules in NixOS? Modules that configure other modules?
<matthewcroughan_>
would nixos ever accept such a thing?
<matthewcroughan_>
higher levels of abstraction
<simpson>
Can't modules set configuration values from configuration declarations in other modules already?
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<matthewcroughan_>
Yes, but let's say I wanted to make `ming.enable = true`.
<matthewcroughan_>
This would enable mosquitto, influxdb, node-red and grafana.
<yaymukund>
anyone got the `helm` (audio synth) working? I'm unable to browse files or load soundbanks because I think it's pointing at the nix store
<matthewcroughan_>
ming is nothing more than that stack of software, I'd like to make such a meta-module.
<simpson>
I have, occasionally, wanted to be able to write functions which return modules, but I don't have any use cases that aren't equally satisfied by using jq to prepare some JSON and then using Nix to loop over it.
<simpson>
Aha. Yeah, you could make a module like that with what's already available.
<vikanezrimaya>
matthewcroughan_: That is a technical possibility. I'm not sure if NixOS will accept such a module, but you can always make a Pull Request on GitHub and try, I'm pretty sure there isn't anything that could go wrong with that
<matthewcroughan_>
I think it's a very neat idea.
<vikanezrimaya>
You won't get yelled at like I was when I was a college student and wanted to do my homework a more efficient way for sure
<matthewcroughan_>
Imagine lamp.nix, which is just a configurable LAMP stack.
<vikanezrimaya>
I prefer nginx tho
<matthewcroughan_>
me too, just citing a well known acronym
<matthewcroughan_>
And I prefer Traefik ;P
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<simpson>
matthewcroughan_: So, like, consider our systemd units. We have modules which export some configuration. When configured, they then set values for systemd's modules, which have their own configuration. This is the same sort of composition that you'd need, right?
<matthewcroughan_>
simpson: I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
<sshow>
,locate gdisk
<{^_^}>
Found in packages: gptfdisk, multibootusb
<matthewcroughan_>
simpson: what do you mean by "export some configuration" ?
<matthewcroughan_>
Can you show me an example? Are you saying that by setting `*.enable = true;` I'm already modifying the output of another services' configuration?
<matthewcroughan_>
So this interaction is already happening at large in nixpkgs?
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<matthewcroughan_>
It seems like this would be a good way to make services brittle, because meta-configuration relies on other services.
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<matthewcroughan_>
In practice, I guess nixpkgs would fail to compile if this happened too often.
<simpson>
It's not brittle to have a type system and to type-check things.
<simpson>
And the way modules are composed effectively performs type-checking on the system's declared configuration while it recursively solves all of the different dependencies between elements of user-controlled policies.
<matthewcroughan_>
ming.enable = true; would set `with services; mosquitto.enable = true; influxdb.enable = true; node-red.enable = true; grafana.enable = true`
<matthewcroughan_>
that would never break, but if `ming.some-option` did some stuff with options that were later removed in any of those services, it would break
<simpson>
Sure. That's part of how software works: Upgrades are an opportunity for breakage.
<matthewcroughan_>
so, a meta-package is brittle
<matthewcroughan_>
a package is not
<matthewcroughan_>
Though, I guess I should just say "stay on 20.09"
<simpson>
Packages or overlays or flakes or etc. are all "brittle" in the same way.
<simpson>
Right, you're ignoring that nixpkgs itself is software, and that its version is relevant to your dependency graph. Pulling a fresh nixpkgs is a software update.
<matthewcroughan_>
Guess so. Flake inputs being disparate across the internet scares me.
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<matthewcroughan_>
We need to get IPFS working, fast.
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<simpson>
Why? Does IPFS improve the trust model?
<matthewcroughan_>
No, it just means that my stuff won't disappear.
<simpson>
Why? Because it's stored on Somebody Else's Computer?
<matthewcroughan_>
No, because it's stored on everybody else's computer(tm).
<simpson>
IPFS isn't censorship-resistant like that; you're thinking of Freenet. But more importantly, this is all a hopeful end-run around a feature of reality: Bits rot. They require effort to maintain over time.
<matthewcroughan_>
I was reading this, if these archives were on IPFS, it's obviously a great use case for it.
<matthewcroughan_>
it's a bittorrent filesystem more or less
<simpson>
IPFS is too slow for us to use at scale, and it's too risky to trust since it could be censored relatively easily.
<matthewcroughan_>
and putting these archives on bittorrent is still a great idea too, IPFS just makes this more useful
<matthewcroughan_>
simpson: alright then, Sia, you used it? I have, it's amazing, too bad it costs money.
<simpson>
I have a blockchain allergy, sorry. But in general, seriously, there's no magic way to get around *somebody* having to pay for disks and for upkeep on those disks.
<matthewcroughan_>
Sure, which is why IPFS is just like Bittorrent.
<matthewcroughan_>
Nobody is going to maintain those torrents, unless people want them.
<matthewcroughan_>
So if nobody wants the source code for visual studio, it disappears
<matthewcroughan_>
Imagine a world where code nobody wants disappears.
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<fuzzypixelz[m]>
hello. I'm trying to build a cargo project and ... It screams at me "Make sure you also have the development packages of openssl installed."
<fuzzypixelz[m]>
"For example, `libssl-dev` on Ubuntu or `openssl-devel` on Fedora."
<fuzzypixelz[m]>
vikanezrimaya: it's weird because I installed openssl? Is it that that the devel output of the package deoesn't get "propagated" to the system when installed?
<fuzzypixelz[m]>
much like python libraries?
<supersandro2000>
add openssl to buildInputs
<supersandro2000>
and some crates need an ENV that they should use the system library instead of something vendored
<vikanezrimaya>
fuzzypixelz[m]: exactly, the devel outputs never get propagated so you don't use them by accident and create a one big honking impurity on your machine that's gonna break eventually
<fuzzypixelz[m]>
vikanezrimaya: but a nix-shell gives you all the outputs anyway right?
<vikanezrimaya>
nix-shell is specifically programmed to give you dev outputs of a package
<vikanezrimaya>
so yeah pretty much
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<vikanezrimaya>
technically you can install a openssl.dev in your system closure but there are reasons why it's not installed by default so you probably shouldn't
<fuzzypixelz[m]>
<vikanezrimaya "nix-shell is specifically progra"> oh I had no idea, so it really is a build tool in the end
<vikanezrimaya>
It is
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<vikanezrimaya>
nix-shell is a development tool to help you debug your Nix expressions
<Henson>
I've discovered a strange behaviour with OpenCV on NixOS. Whenever I use the calibrateCamera or stereoCalibrate functions I get the error "On entry to DGESDDM parameter number 8 had an illegal value" which is a lapack error. This happens with OpenCV 3 and 4 using either Python 2 or 3 with either NixOS 19.03, 19.09, 20.03, 20.09, or unstable branches. This does not happen using Debian with..