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<p3ace> well, turns out my kernel doesn't support user namespaces. imma try turning it on.
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<frumpagumpus> has anyone running gnome successfully connected hdmi cable on nixos?
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<p3ace> ok, everything seems to be working fine with CONFIG_USER_NS=y
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] sh01 opened pull request #20702: pkgs/tools/misc/less: Adjust version after disappearance of source package (master...fix_less) https://git.io/v1Jdv
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] sh01 closed pull request #20702: less: Adjust version after disappearance of source package (master...fix_less) https://git.io/v1Jdv
<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] sh01 opened pull request #20703: less: 483 -> 481: Use recommended upstream version since less-483.tar.gz has disappeared (master...fix_less) https://git.io/v1Jb1
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] TravisWhitaker opened pull request #20704: R: 3.2.4 -> 3.3.2 (master...r-update) https://git.io/v1JNJ
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixops] NotBrianZach opened pull request #557: libvirt/qemu race condition fix. (master...master) https://git.io/v1JpY
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Ralith opened pull request #20705: matrix-synapse: 0.18.0 -> 0.18.4 (master...matrix-synapse) https://git.io/v1Jpi
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] matthewbauer opened pull request #20706: Emacs macport version fix (master...emacs-macport-version-fix) https://git.io/v1Uvw
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v1UfV
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 902675b Vladimír Čunát: Revert "Merge pull request #20592 from TravisWhitaker/portaudio-update"...
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v1UT3
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 0f9f74f Sebastian Hagen: less: 483 -> 481: Use recommended upstream version since less-483.tar.gz has disappeared...
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master a3f852f Jörg Thalheim: Merge pull request #20703 from sh01/fix_less...
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] evfool opened pull request #20707: gnome-mines:update license to GPLv3 (master...master) https://git.io/v1UT8
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v1UTj
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 205aecd Benjamin Saunders: matrix-synapse: 0.18.0 -> 0.18.4
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 1b5e981 Frederik Rietdijk: Merge pull request #20705 from Ralith/matrix-synapse...
<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 6 new commits to master: https://git.io/v1Ukf
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 99e6b63 Carl Sverre: pycryptodome: init at 3.4.3
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 555928c Carl Sverre: mutagen: 1.32 -> 1.34
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 8602f82 Carl Sverre: gpsoauth: 0.0.4 -> 0.2.0
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v1Ukd
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 18637d8 Frederik Rietdijk: magic-wormhole: move to python-packages...
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 4f51481 Frederik Rietdijk: pythonPackages.pynacl: fix tests
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<rly> Does Hydra have a persistent queue?
<rly> In the sense that when I have a cluster of Hydra machines, pull the plug out of *all* of them at the same time, but the plug back in and it will just restart whatever job it was running?
<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] peti pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v1UIs
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 841b195 Karn Kallio: ats2 : advance Postiats to version 0.2.12, which is the latest release.
<fpletz> rly: yup, the queue is stored in postgresql
<rly> fpletz: sure, but there is still a single point of failure then?
<rly> fpletz: I am looking for a job scheduling system without such SPOFs.
<clever> i have seen hydra glitch pretty weirdly when it ran out of disk space and cant update postgresql
<clever> at one point, it claimed 4 jobs have been running for over 12 hours, when they had long since died
<fpletz> rly: well, postgresql can be clustered and/or replicated, though I'm not sure if multiple instances of hydra-queue-runner and hydra-evaluator can be run with the same database
<clever> the queue-runners would need to contact eachother and co-operate
<clever> or the schema updated to allow a queue-runner you cant contact to claim a job
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<clever> another tricky part, the queue-runner needs the .drv files to exist to start a job
<clever> and those are made by the evaluator
<clever> so it wouldnt be easy to fire up a job on the wrong host
<clever> but nix-copy-closure does work on drv files
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 6 new commits to python3: https://git.io/v1Utq
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/python3 04d3796 Frederik Rietdijk: gpodder: use python2
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/python3 71f79f3 Frederik Rietdijk: wicd: use python2
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/python3 c84c4bb Frederik Rietdijk: zim: use python2
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] mcmtroffaes opened pull request #20708: wolfssl: 3.9.8 -> 3.9.10b (master...feature/wolfssl-3.9.10b) https://git.io/v1Utg
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 3 new commits to python3: https://git.io/v1Uqm
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/python3 e8990cb Frederik Rietdijk: pythonPackages.docker: support python3
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/python3 38aeb93 Frederik Rietdijk: zbar: use python2
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/python3 dce9aef Frederik Rietdijk: linuxband: use python2
<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] romildo opened pull request #20709: Greybird: 2016-09-13 -> 2016-11-15 (master...upd.greybird) https://git.io/v1Uq2
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* goibhniu <3 the sound of a "functional hot-pot supergroup" ( 33C3 email)
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<arjen-jonathan> Hi all
<arjen-jonathan> I'm seeing .dylibs being build on a vbox running nixos under osx
<arjen-jonathan> How could that happen?
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<LnL> does anybody know how I can configure nix to prefer my local cache over cache.nixos.org
<clever> LnL: i'm guessing just put it first in nix.conf, what is the current contents?
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<LnL> that's what I have now
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<clever> its already first?
<LnL> It's used for things that are not available on cache.nixos.org, but if it's there nix still just downloads from the internet
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<arjen-jonathan> LnL: If you're using a nixchannel then that specifies a binary cache; does those have precedence?
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] nico202 opened pull request #20710: coWPAtty: init at 4.6 (master...cowpatty) https://git.io/v1Ucq
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] zimbatm pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v1Uc0
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master ea743a9 Matthias C. M. Troffaes: wolfssl: 3.9.8 -> 3.9.10b (#20708)
<pierron> zimbatm: https://github.com/garbas/nixpkgs-mozilla/commit/822614a703701dde0babb42558fa1439a6fe49f4 We are following rust stable updates for building Gecko, this is not something we can afford.
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<pierron> zimbatm: unless you prefer us to copy over the rustPlatform packaging?
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<zimbatm> pierron: fair enough :) I don't mind if you revert that commit
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<LnL> arjen-jonathan: I don't use channels
<the-kenny> zimbatm: FIY: I just pushed my `direnv.el`. https://github.com/the-kenny/direnv.el - it's quite rough but it works fine for me. It basically automates applying direnv-environments to processes started from emacs (i.e. M-x compile, M-x run-python, etc)
<pierron> zimbatm: I will keep the comment.
<zimbatm> the-kenny: cool, do you know about https://github.com/jml/direnv-el ?
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<jml> It's on melpa!
<the-kenny> zimbatm: heh, no I didn't. I'll have a look in a minute
<zimbatm> any cross-polination possible?
<the-kenny> ah direnv-el seems to change the global process-environment. I'm only changing it locally based on `default-directory` of `buffer-file-name`
<the-kenny> else it looks quite similar
<the-kenny> jml: I don't like melpa at all. Can't stand daily snapshots ;)
<the-kenny> Maybe we should work together on one :)
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<the-kenny> (I personally don't care which one)
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<jml> ah, interesting technique. I didn't know about advice for start-process
<jml> bbiab
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<the-kenny> jml: Yeah, it's quite nice at it doesn't depend on any global state. It works quite well on my machine (and I didn't see any breakage from non-direnv-related stuff)
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v1U4j
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 78f81c5 roxma: proxychains: fix build, add -ldl to LDFLAGS...
<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] joachifm closed pull request #20355: fix proxychains ld flags (master...master) https://git.io/vXKlw
<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v1UBk
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 163e1ee romildo: windowmaker: 0.95.6 -> 0.95.7
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 593bc52 Joachim F: Merge pull request #20701 from romildo/upd.windowmaker...
<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v1UBY
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master a31c37c Ole Krüger: [mathematica] 10.0.2 -> 11.0.1
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 37964f1 Frederik Rietdijk: Merge pull request #20654 from dignati/master...
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<jml> the-kenny: have invited you to collaborate, don't feel under any obligation
<the-kenny> jml: Saw it :) Thanks
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] FRidh closed pull request #20710: coWPAtty: init at 4.6 (master...cowpatty) https://git.io/v1Ucq
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<loskutov> Hi everyone! I'm trying to learn how buffer overflow works and exploit it in a simple program. Unfortunately, glibc doesn't let me overflow the buffer, as it substitutes the string functions with checked ones. Is there a way to disable this behaviour?
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] joachifm closed pull request #20709: Greybird: 2016-09-13 -> 2016-11-15 (master...upd.greybird) https://git.io/v1Uq2
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<clever> loskutov: its a new option in nixpkgs, disableHardening
<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v1Ugy
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master b4077f3 romildo: xcape: git-2015-03-01 -> 1.2
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 00597a0 Joachim F: Merge pull request #20644 from romildo/upd.xcape...
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<clever> loskutov: pkgs/build-support/cc-wrapper/add-hardening.sh
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] sh01 opened pull request #20711: less: 483 -> 481: Use recommended upstream version since less-483.tar.gz has disappeared (release-16.09...cp_fix_less) https://git.io/v1U2G
<loskutov> clever: thank you so much, will try it :)
<clever> loskutov: there is also a NIX_DEBUG=true; you can add to a derivation, which will tell you when stuff like overflow protection is being enabled
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<mbrgm> is there a way to add an entry to the generated grub kernel cmdline? specifically, I want to enable a serial terminal, which usually do by adding `serial=ttyS0` to the kernel cmdline.
<clever> mbrgm: boot.kernelParams = [ "serial=ttyS0" ];
<mbrgm> clever: that was easy ;) thank you!
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<mbrgm> works as expected :)
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<ixxie> Anybody here familiar with the gnome3 package?
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] stesie opened pull request #20712: Update IntelliJ Toolbox (master...idea-updates-20161125) https://git.io/v1UKc
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] NeQuissimus closed pull request #20712: Update IntelliJ Toolbox (master...idea-updates-20161125) https://git.io/v1UKc
<rly> What's the startup script located in the user's home dir which is run when an a Xsession is run in NixOS?
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<rly> (I want to run ssh-add there. )
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 1 new commit to staging: https://git.io/v1Uie
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/staging b191034 Frederik Rietdijk: remarkjs: fix evaluation
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<rly> clever: thanks
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<ixxie> is there a config option for which is the default browser?
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<zimbatm> ixxie: one option is to `export BROWSER=firefxo` in your ~/.xsession
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<rly> Does anyone have a nix expression for always running the very latest aws cli tools?
<rly> The only version which matters in a cloud context during development is the very latest one, at least for what I am doing.
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<avn> rly: override awscli and botocore src with new git hashes and rebuild each day? ;)
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<rly> avn: there is also "aws". Is that the old version?
<avn> rly: idk, but if you need `git head` version, it can be option.
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<rly> avn: I think the one in master is already good enough. I have that available as <my-nixpkgs>. How do I then replace the symbol awscli by something relative to that that particular path?
<rly> s/that that/that
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<avn> rly: I haven't example myself, but pinning arbitrary set of packages to specific nixpkgs revision was posted in few channel few times. I myself prefer a bit curated version of master myself.
<rly> avn: I just read the manual and also was able to do it.
<rly> That's always a good sign.
<rly> Let's hope it works :)
<rly> Yes, it did. How nice.
<rly> I could even set it up such that I could test with every aws client ever created by Amazon. That's pretty sick.
<rly> Not that I need it, but still nice.
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nix] layus opened pull request #1140: Get rid of unicode quotes (master...remove-unicode-quotes) https://git.io/v1Uym
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nix] domenkozar closed pull request #1140: Get rid of unicode quotes (master...remove-unicode-quotes) https://git.io/v1Uym
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* lonokhov has just optimized haskell executable closure size from 2500Mib to 44 MiB
<clever> lonokhov: sweet
<the-kenny> ohh nice
<civodul> interesting, we are at 1.3G in Guix
<lonokhov> yeah. had to drop `ekg` though.
<clever> lonokhov: one area i ran into, which may not be fixed yet, is with multiple outputs
<clever> lonokhov: for example, the jquery package (a haskell library that just returns the path to jquery.js on-disk)
<clever> lonokhov: that jquery.js path, is in the same output as the .so files(which depend on ghc), but the .so files got staticly linked and arent needed
<lonokhov> clever: yeah, that's the reason I dropped ekg
<clever> so it only needs a single <500kb js file, but depends on the entirety of ghc
<clever> what does ekg do?
<lonokhov> clever: server monitoring data. Useful stuff
<lonokhov> ekg-core has counters and gauges. and ekg is a server which draws pretty graphs
<clever> not sure how that effects the above issue, are your fixed on master yet?
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<lonokhov> clever: ekg has some data, and uses cabal generated Paths_ekg module which has path to ekg library, with .so and .hi and all that. So my executable imports ekg library and even static linking does not help
<steveeJ> has anyone attempted to run theforeman on nixos? it seems very difficult because all the installation/configuration logic is in the puppet-based foreman-installer
<steveeJ> although they do provide source installation instructions https://theforeman.org/manuals/1.13/#3.4InstallFromSource
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<clever> lonokhov: hmmm, something has changed on master since i last looked: https://gist.github.com/cleverca22/11be2dc59d23f6f80038764c6ebdf3aa
<clever> lonokhov: ghc is currently in the RPATH of my program
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<clever> lonokhov: oh ooops, thats the library, not my binary
<lonokhov> clever: do you have library in your project? have you tried linking statically with nixpkgs.haskell.libs.disableSharedExecutables?
<lonokhov> oh
<clever> updating the gist with more detailed info
<clever> the only reference to js-jquery in chat-shaker is the path to a 85kb file, but the docs are in the same output
<clever> and the js-jquery docs depend on the ghc docs
<clever> so thats 161mb of overhead right there
<ixxie> zimbatm, but how do I set it in the configuration file?
<clever> lonokhov: and the lib folder (which is never referenced by chat-shaker) references ghc itself, so thats another 1gig of overhead
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<lonokhov> clever: http://i.imgur.com/HL6D8sS.png my reduced deps
<clever> lonokhov: the only fix i can see here, is to split lib, doc, and share into multiple outputs on js-jquery, and patch the share path it returns to the runtime
<clever> lonokhov: yeah, thats pretty tiny compared to what i currently have
<lonokhov> clever: Well, ./Setup.hs has a --datadir arg. Idk how such overloads are done right now. But it should be possible to add an option to generic-builder.nix without breaking backwards compat
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<clever> lonokhov: i'm still a bit new at haskell, and have been avoiding cabal like the plague, lol: https://github.com/taktoa/arcane-chat/blob/master/chat-shaker/default.nix
* lonokhov likes cabal and thinks it's a great tool
<clever> lonokhov: i have heard about cabal hell
<lonokhov> cabal hell was overblown
<arjen-jonathan> Hi
<arjen-jonathan> How do systemd template services work in nixos?
<arjen-jonathan> I have a worker systemd module, and I want to start n of them
<arjen-jonathan> Which I would usually do like so: systemctl start worker@{1,2,3}
<arjen-jonathan> If I understand systemd units correctly
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<clever> arjen-jonathan: and the area starting at line 464
<arjen-jonathan> Ah so basically just add n systemd."worker@name" entries
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<clever> arjen-jonathan: looks like you make a "worker@foo" that only has things like wants on it, then another "worker@" service, that has the start scripts
<clever> and systemd will fill in %i with foo
<arjen-jonathan> K, thanks!
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] primeos opened pull request #20717: sks: init at 1.1.6 (master...sks) https://git.io/v1UN3
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<JonReed> Hi, wasn't there some tool to search nix packages instead of using "nix-env -qaP"
<JonReed> that was faster and better
<JonReed> CLI tool
<the-kenny> nox
<JonReed> ah
<JonReed> thx, that's it
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<clever> JonReed: there is also nix-repl
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<IITaudio> clever: wow. *That's* strange
<steveeJ> I've been thinking. if we ever want to be able to switch from systemd to something else, the modules/application structure needs an intermediate layer from which the service files can be generated
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<steveeJ> I've been reluctant to open an issue because I can't possibly be the first one to mention this. is anyone aware of an issue covering the topic?
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<clever> steveeJ: i have thought about it as well, currently i need to re-implement any service i want: https://github.com/cleverca22/not-os/blob/master/runit.nix#L30-L58
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<clever> steveeJ: part of the problem, what do you do with options like ReadWriteDirectories or PrivateTmp and PrivateNetwork
<clever> steveeJ: not all init systems have those, and the security of some services depends on them, so now you need to re-implement sections of systemd, and use custom wrappers to launch things
<goibhniu> steveeJ: I think discussions like https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/9250 are related too (NixUP etc.)
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<steveeJ> clever: you would have a feature matrix in the intermediate layer. I imagine that there's common features and specific ones
<steveeJ> it would serve as an overview of which init system provides what capabilities
<clever> steveeJ: also, have you seen the perl script thats used for testing?
<steveeJ> clever: I generally avoid perl :-D
<steveeJ> this includes reading
<clever> steveeJ: one sec
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<clever> steveeJ: wait, wrong gist, lol
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<clever> steveeJ: if you run nix-build on this, you get an executable that starts postgresql, and obeys all of the service config setup in nixos, including the pre/post start/stop
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<clever> though it probably doesnt cover the special cases i initialy mentioned
<steveeJ> acn you point me to the perl script? it's not obvious to me
<steveeJ> clever: thanks. so this thing wraps a systemd service run in perl
<clever> yep
<clever> i think its meant for testing the service on nixos, but it can also be abused to run the service on another distro
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<clever> steveeJ: in theory, that could be rewritten in c++, then have mount and user namespaces added to it, to cover all of the other systemd features
<clever> steveeJ: and then just have other init systems run the wrapper, when unsupported features are detected
<steveeJ> clever: I'd prefer a neutral list of features and translators
<steveeJ> but I'm aware that it's quite some initial work to start with all systemd features that are in use in the modules
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<steveeJ> clever: if you were to implement this in C++ you would create another service manager, that's not exactly what I would suggest
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<clever> steveeJ: yeah, to cover the missing features, you would almost need to do that, it would become a thin wrapper between the host init system, and the service, that translates kill -int to ExecStop
<steveeJ> clever: I was thinking of a mere translator *for* the respective host init system. if it misses a feature, the translator will simply drop the requested feature (with a warning/error if we would want so)
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<clever> that would also be possible
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<steveeJ> it would be clean. if you wanted to implement another service manager (we might have misaligned definitions on init/service system/manager), I will surely not stop you ;-)
<steveeJ> the line between init system and service manager is probably system configuration, but that is very interconnected in systemd AFAICT
<steveeJ> e.g. networking, hostname, etc.
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<clever> and now ive lost video on the main system
<steveeJ> clever: I don't follow :-O
<clever> i unplugged the 3rd monitor to shuffle the wires around, and the other 2 monitors went dead
<steveeJ> okay clearly unrelated to the discussion. if you're using an intel gpu, sometimes I have to enable 1, then 2, then the third one
<clever> amd, and i have no easy way to control it when blind
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<steveeJ> clever: will the VT switch one on at least?
<steveeJ> if you have ssh access you can run xrandr using DISPLAY=:0
<clever> running "chvt 1" over ssh causes the monitors to loose signal and re-obtain it
<clever> but it doesnt give a tty
<clever> no effect from xrandr --auto
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<steveeJ> clever: don't you still have to give it a display?
<clever> --output DVI-1 --off also has no effect
<clever> and $DISPLAY is already in the env
<steveeJ> clever: here's a convenience script I wrote a while ago https://gist.github.com/steveeJ/8cff9b9a8b122aaf89e568fc59db023d
<steveeJ> example usuage would be $script --choice="0=1 2" to have display 0 and 1 cloned, left of extended display 2
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<clever> it seems i can turn the signal on/off, if i --off an output, the monitor goes into power saving mode
<clever> but nothing actualy gets an image out of any
<steveeJ> clever: display management is flaky here too. for instance, I have to use this workaround for standby: https://gist.github.com/steveeJ/374a68bf89b5c31493437182ac69c4c4
<steveeJ> randomly switching displays seems to help :O
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<clever> [nix-shell:~]$ x0vncserver passwordfile=.vnc/passwd
<clever> and i have control again!
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<clever> steveeJ: heh, i have full control of the monitor layout now, via the xfce dialog, but the screens are still black
<clever> guess xorg needs a kick in the reset button
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<clever> thats going to be fun, chrome isnt responding, so when i resume it, i'm going to get at least 5 different youtube videos playing at once
<clever> and nope, the GPU is just totally fried, its going to need a power cycle
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<clever> steveeJ: ok, and it seems getting the extra hdmi cords and the hdmi switch box was pointless as well
<clever> the instant i try to change hdmi inputs, it breaks everything again
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<clever> and while ssh works, it cant shutdown!
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<steveeJ> clever: well, I'll leave ya to your GPU problems ;) I'll design a blueprint for the service generation eventually and ping you
<clever> its back up, and since everything has been brutaly murdered, i'm doing a rebuild
<clever> its been a while since i updated
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] peti pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v1TTK
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master b8a69aa Profpatsch: haskell/hoogle.nix: make an empty packages list possible...
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master baea6a8 Peter Simons: Merge pull request #20619 from Profpatsch/ghcWithHoogle-empty-packagelist...
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] anderspapitto closed pull request #20133: haskellPackages.stack: enableSharedExecutables = false; (master...static-link-stack) https://git.io/vXc5z
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<clever> steveeJ: aha, its perfectly fine, as long as i disable that output before unplugging
<clever> only problem then, is that the far right is my primary, and it shifts all of my xfce panels out of view then
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<musicmatze> Good evening everyone
<musicmatze> Has someone already thought about putting the nix store into IPFS?
<joepie91> musicmatze: hmmm. this is actually the first good IPFS usecase I've heard of in a while :)
<joepie91> musicmatze: ref https://github.com/NixOS/nix/issues/859
<musicmatze> don't you think there are more good use cases? :-)
<musicmatze> ah, nice!
<musicmatze> thx
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<joepie91> musicmatze: I'm sure there are, but IPFS is completely unsuitable for most usecases that people come up with, because people don't generally have a good idea of what guarantees IPFS does and doesn't provide
<joepie91> (or the complexity of distributed systems for that matter)
<musicmatze> that might be true, yes.
<musicmatze> I'm currently playing with it and I cannot think of a usecase for me from the top of my head...
<joepie91> musicmatze: for example, a frequently returning suggestion is to replace <package manager registry> with IPFS based on some mistaken notion that data on IPFS is persistent and automagically kept around like on Freenet
<joepie91> which... well, it isn't :)
<musicmatze> joepie91: as far as I understand, data vanishes if hosts vanish, am I right?
<joepie91> and it can actually make availability worse because no single party feels responsible for the persistence of the data anymore
<joepie91> musicmatze: correct
<joepie91> musicmatze: IPFS is basically torrents in filesystem format
<musicmatze> but it is non-mutable in IPFS (as it is in the nix store, same concept, basically)
<joepie91> mostly the same technical properties apply
<joepie91> musicmatze: well, same goal
<joepie91> the Nix store isn't immutable from a technical perspective
<joepie91> you *can* mutate, you're just not supposed to
<joepie91> whereas in IPFS it's enforced cryptographically that you don't mutate
<joepie91> (without creating new chunks)
<musicmatze> ok
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<joepie91> anyhow, I think IPFS is very interesting tech that's very useful for a number of usecases, especially in terms of accessibility
<joepie91> but I also think it's overhyped and unsuitable as a primary store for data
<joepie91> it's more distribution than storage
<joepie91> which makes it good for eg. a Nix binary cache
<joepie91> because that can be reproduced anyway
<musicmatze> ... so exactly what nix channels are supposed to be, right?
<joepie91> so even if all data is lost, no big deal, you just reproduce it
<joepie91> by re-running the builds
<musicmatze> because nix is a source-based deployment mechanism in the first place, and binary substitution is only an optimization...
<joepie91> musicmatze: Nix channels are just repo branches really
<joepie91> musicmatze: what you'd use IPFS for would be the binary caches
<joepie91> which are 100% separate from the rest of Nix really
<musicmatze> yep, that's what I thought of
<joepie91> no relation to channels
<joepie91> purely hash-based
<musicmatze> yes, just branches, I meant caches, not channels
<joepie91> but yeah, IPFS would probably be suitable for binary cache replication
<joepie91> with two caveats
<joepie91> 1) you'd want to use the mutable directory thing (I forgot the name) for mapping hashes
<joepie91> and 2) you'd have to work out who to make seed what
<musicmatze> as far as I can see it, the moment we have ipfs as nix-store, we automatically mirror all packages for everyone...
<joepie91> many people won't want it to automatically seed
<joepie91> so you need some kind of UX path to let people say "yes, I want to seed packages for others"
<musicmatze> that's true, yes
<simpson> ...Including those packages which currently have secrets or sensitive information.
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<musicmatze> simpson: well, that's a major point, yes.
<simpson> IPFS'ing everything in a store isn't currently a very safe operation. Nix doesn't have a good story for secret management yet.
<joepie91> simpson: not necessarily
<joepie91> simpson: I'm primarily thinking here of just IPFS'ing the stuff from the binary cache
<joepie91> that is generated on the buildfarm
<joepie91> (that's Hydra I believe?)
<joepie91> ie. you'd move that from plain HTTP to HTTP + IPFS
<joepie91> as a load distribution mechanism
<joepie91> automatically IPFS-storing builds from *users* is a separate step
<joepie91> and that requires some thought, but even then secrets aren't necessarily a problem
<joepie91> since it's content-addressable
<joepie91> so you need to already have knowledge of the inputs to be able to access the outputs
<avn> joepie91: it also need to trust for packages for specific seeder
<avn> *from
<joepie91> it still needs more thought though, but distributing all hydra builds on IPFS is a safe first step
<joepie91> avn: how do you mean?
<avn> joepie91: malicious user can setup builder, which will push packages with proper hash, but malicious content
<joepie91> avn: no, they can't
<musicmatze> avn nope, that won't work
<joepie91> avn: it's content-addressable, so the content can be verified from its address
<joepie91> it's guaranteed that - with a non-broken IPFS implementation - you always get the same data for the same address/hash
<joepie91> no matter where it comes from
<joepie91> you still have to trust the party providing the hash ofc but that's no different from how it works now
<avn> joepie91: possible I need to take closer look on IPFS
<simpson> avn: All of the maliciousness of IPFS comes from the inability of IPFS to deal with censorship.
<simpson> But integrity is not a problem.
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<musicmatze> joepie91: you seem to know a bit about IPFS... can you tell me the difference to freenet?
<joepie91> musicmatze: it's completely different :)
<joepie91> musicmatze: IPFS is closer to BitTorrent than to Freenet
<musicmatze> yeah, I don't know about freenet...
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<joepie91> it's just a filesystem-y abstraction on top of mostly BitTorrent tech
<musicmatze> I just mentioned IPFS in my local linux user group and some guy started ranting "They're reinventing freenet"...
<simpson> Pfft. Freenet is quite different.
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<joepie91> musicmatze: Freenet actually aims to persist data beyond any single set of peers - when you run it, you allocate it some space and it starts filling it up with random data from the network that needs replicating - I believe it somehow looks for the rarest data though I'm not 100% sure of its internals
<joepie91> I only know the general technical properties :P
<simpson> Two big differences: On Freenet, each node might hold content that they weren't aware that they were holding; additionally, it's pretty hard to prevent certain content from circulating.
<joepie91> IPFS doesn't try to do that *at all* - it's just a decentralized distribution mechanisms that pretends to be a filesystem
<joepie91> data is only there if it's seeded, and if it's not seeded, it goes away
<musicmatze> okay, I see that this is a clear distinct thing from IPFS
<simpson> IPFS doesn't have either of those behaviors; it's easy for a node to be confident in which content it currently has, and it's also easy for a plurality of nodes to censor content by refusing to carry it.
<joepie91> musicmatze: yeah, definitely. entirely different category of tech
<musicmatze> thanks for your explanation!
<joepie91> musicmatze: problem is that IPFS marketed itself as the "permanent web" and this misled a ton of people into thinking it was "something like Freenet"
<joepie91> (and I got a weak hand-wavy "well we mean permanent as in deterministic, not as in persistent" answer when I brought that up...)
<simpson> IPFS is IMO terrible. But it's a good stepping stone.
<joepie91> I think IPFS is quite neat, *if* you correctly understands its technical properties and what you can expect from it :P
<joepie91> understand*
<joepie91> but few people seem to
<musicmatze> simpson: why do you think it is terrible?
<simpson> musicmatze: Mostly because I am a proponent of the Named Data Networking (NDN) working group.
<simpson> And from that perspective, IPFS solves a similar problem but in a terrible way.
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<joepie91> simpson: which problem is that?
<simpson> joepie91: The problem of having some data, putting a name on it, giving somebody else the name, and having the name resolve to the data.
<joepie91> simpson: strictly speaking that's not the problem that IPFS is trying to solve though
<joepie91> it's intention is more to be a building block for a distributed filesystem-of-sorts, for other things to build upon
<simpson> joepie91: Yeah, I know.
<joepie91> (or well, a set of building blocks)
<simpson> It's just that NDN is *also* a building block, and it's a far better building block!
<MichaelRaskin> NDN is not strictly better than anything…
<MichaelRaskin> It has a lot of dangerous caveats
<simpson> Sure. And the caveats aren't listed neatly on a single page like this one: https://github.com/ipfs/faq/issues/47
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<musicmatze> okay, thanks for some clearification, both of you!
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<musicmatze> I have to go now!
<musicmatze> have a nice evening/weekend!
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<joepie91> musicmatze: same to you :)
<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] bachp opened pull request #20719: gitlab-runner: 1.7.1 -> 1.8.0 (master...gitlab-runner-1.8.1) https://git.io/v1TYy
<sphalerite> I appreciate that there's a large amount of documentation on nixos and related software, but it isn't easy to find how to do things :/ how do I build a package that I have in my nixpkgs tree? nix-build -I path/to/nixpkgs -A packageName?
<simpson> sphalerite: Pretty much.
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<sphalerite> also, how do I compute a hash for a source archive? Upstream doesn't make it available unfortunately
<MichaelRaskin> nix-prefetch-url
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<sphalerite> great thanks
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<sphalerite> My package needs gtksourceview, not sure whether it's the GNOME 2 or GNOME 3 version, but how do I specify it in the parameters for the package anyway?
<irctc826> Hey all, is there any way to manually download a file required by my configuration and sneaker-net it into the nix store so that my configuration can continue?
<joepie91> irctc826: I believe nix-prefetch-url file:///path/to/file is what you're looking for
<kmicu> sphalerite: Nixpkgs manual and Nix manual have that ‘missing’ info.
<irctc826> Perfect, thanks!
<sphalerite> kmicu: I'm not saying it's missing, it's just hard to find :/ I'm searching the nixpkgs manual for gtk but nothing relevant
<sphalerite> nor for "gnome"
<joepie91> (there are quite a few organizational issues with the manuals, imo)
<sphalerite> or is the expectation that I read the whole manual?
<joepie91> (I don't find them structurally useful *at all* - there's no quick way to get from "I have a problem" to "this is the solution")
<sphalerite> ^
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<sphalerite> They are nicely structured if you want to read them linearly I guess, but I don't think that's the most common use case
<joepie91> indeed
<joepie91> ZeroMQ has much the same problem, btw
<joepie91> basically anything with a length manual
<joepie91> lengthy*
<Fare> what's the size of a minimal NixOS image?
<clever> sphalerite: nox is one util for searching that kind of thing
<clever> Fare: the iso, or a minimal install?
<Fare> a minimal install
<clever> Fare: ive gotten it to fit into 1gig before, but you may want more
<Fare> also, it looks like some memory leak or something is causing my X server to die every so often.
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<Fare> and X can't recognize my touchpad as such and won't recognize its right click :-/
<clever> Fare: the journal might say why, "journalctl -u display-manager"
<clever> Fare: services.xserver.synaptics.enable = true;
<sphalerite> clever: Nice! Much better than grep name ~/avail (after having nix-env -qaP > ~/avail ... nox gives me the package I want, but not how to specify it as a dependency for my package: there are multiple versions of gtksourceview, one is under the path nixos.gnome.gtksourceview and the other under nixos.gnome3.gtksourceview. How do I choose one and put it in the arguments for the derivation function?
<clever> sphalerite: put either gnome or gnome3 into the list of arguments on line 1, then put either gnome.gtksourceview or gnome3.gtksourceview into the buildInputs
<sphalerite> aaaah perfect. Thanks!
<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] svend opened pull request #20720: librecad: 2.0.10 -> 2.1.3 (master...librecad-2-1-3) https://git.io/v1T39
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<sphalerite> Yay, it's compiling!
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<jeaye> Why do I need to build openjdk on my machine always? I never seem to get a binary for it, unlike other packages, and it takes my single-core VPS quite a bit of disk space and ram (needs a swap file), as well as about an hour of chugging.
<clever> jeaye: can you compare the output of these 2 commands, "nix-instantiate '<nixpkgs>' -A openjdk" and "nix-instantiate '<nixpkgs>' -A openjdk --arg config '{}'"
<kmicu> jeaye: what’s your Nixpkgs version?
<clever> then its not an override
<clever> 32bit or 64bit?, and what kmicu said
<jeaye> 64bit, 16.09
<kmicu> ‘nix-shell --dry-run –pure -p openjdk -I nixpkgs=https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs-channels/archive/nixos-16.09.tar.gz’ wants /nix/store/bn4lzwvxx1bvzzhmxrw706c4kd9h4c1x-openjdk-8u122b04-jre so the hash is different.
<kmicu> Could you check ‘nix-instantiate --eval '<nixpkgs>' -A lib.nixpkgsVersion’ ?
<clever> kmicu: the hash in that pastebin was the drv hash, not the output hash, so it will differ some because of fetchurl's
<jeaye> The hash may be different because I'm currently updating openjdk again and it hasn't finished.
<jeaye> kmicu: "16.09.1113.ee52e98"
<jeaye> In the middle of an upgrade to the latest 16.09 right now, which caused me to come in here and complain about compiling openjdk again.
<kmicu> An output hash is known beforehand and it must be the same for all 16.09 users.
<clever> yeah
<clever> git checkout ee52e98 ; nix-instantiate -A openjdk perfectly recreates the .drv hash from the pastebin
<clever> and it is present in the cache
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<kmicu> jeaye: could you share the output of ‘nix-shell --dry-run –pure -p openjdk’?
<kmicu> --pure*
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] rycee pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v1TG0
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 8a424e3 Robert Helgesson: tahoe service: use ExecStart instead of script...
<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] rycee closed pull request #20554: tahoe service: use ExecStart instead of script (master...tahoe/use-execstart) https://git.io/vXFwk
<jeaye> kmicu: There is no --pure for nix-shell
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<kmicu> There is no --pure for ‘nix-env’, ‘nix-shell’ takes --pure since always.
<kmicu> Ah, it’s probably my en–dash and ‘–pure’ ;)
<kmicu> ‘nix-shell --pure --dry-run -p openjdk’ here you go. This time I’ve copy&pasted directly from terminal emu.
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<jeaye> openjdk is installed as per line 8 here: https://github.com/jeaye/nix-files/blob/master/service/safepaste.nix
<jeaye> I'm not overriding anything intentionally.
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<clever> jeaye: the 2 nix-instantiates i gave at first confirmed that its not an override
<clever> and i also confirmed that the drv path in one of your pastes is in the cache
<clever> jeaye: can you pastebin /etc/nix/nix.conf?
<jeaye> Sure.
<clever> the cache is there, i cant think of anything else
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<clever> jeaye: oh, the tests are are doing dont handle the nixpkgs.config overrides from configuration.nix
<clever> jeaye: let me check something
<jeaye> I know I get cached packages, since I don't build everything. I figured it was an openjdk licensing issue or something, which required me to build it locally.
<clever> jeaye: found the cause
<clever> jeaye: this recompiles dbus without x, which triggers an openjdk recompile
<jeaye> Gah.
<jeaye> I still get a number of X libs, too, due to python3.
<clever> and all of the testing we did ignores configuration.nix
<clever> yeah, that option only turns x off in dbus, it doesnt touch anything else
<jeaye> clever: Thanks for digging through git to find that!
<clever> so x is going to come in anyways, enless some major work is done
<clever> and its going to cause rebuilds
<jeaye> Maybe I'll try noXlibs = true and see how much my nix store grows.
<jeaye> It just seemed like an obvious setting for a headless server. In fact, it might make sense to have hydra cache noXlib builds; I imagine they're popular among servers.
<clever> except, for every similar option, the number of packages doubles
<clever> x, pulse, gnome, 2*2*2, now it has to build everything ~8 times
<jeaye> Yep.
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<jeaye> We need a bigger hydra cluster, with more hard drives. Would Hydra be more likely to support these other configurations if people donated more $$ or hardware/
<jeaye> s_/_?_
<clever> it still doesnt scale very well, add one more option and thats 16 builds
<clever> now you have to double the entire cluster once more
<jeaye> Word.
<jeaye> Well, thanks again. I'll give noXlibs a go once this upgrade finishes.
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<sphalerite> It would IMHO be nice to cover some common use cases (like proper headless) without causing exponential growth by allowing every combination
<sphalerite> But in that case there would probably be arguments about which use cases are common and should be supported :p
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<clever> ah yeah, and options like pulseaudio have different defaults for every package
<clever> so forcing it on, and forcing it off, always causes a large number of recompiles
<sphalerite> right
<sphalerite> I guess nixos is still primarily a source distribution
<sphalerite> source-based
<sphalerite> idk what to call it properly
<clever> primarily source based, but because of the purity, it is safe to reuse builds other people have made
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<clever> and hydra does 90% of what you will ever want
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<gchristensen> ikwildrpepper: ping
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<sphalerite> clever: safe in terms of trust, or just compatibility?
<clever> mostly compatibility
<clever> you have to trust that the hydra build slave didnt bend the purity rules and inject malware into every single result
<MichaelRaskin> In terms of trust you need a way to verify faithfulness of the build
<sphalerite> right
<sphalerite> yeah
<MichaelRaskin> And we do not have bit-perfect builds (unfortunately)
<clever> one random example, by default, mplayer builds on gentoo will auto-detect what cpu features you have
<clever> and compile those into the binary
<MichaelRaskin> Now that is bad even from compatibility point of view
<clever> and if you now run it on an older processor, it will just hard fail
<clever> MichaelRaskin: thats an option gentoo had enabled, because they are ricers :P
<clever> MichaelRaskin: by default, mplayer builds everything into it, and auto-detects stuff at runtime, but this results in a bigger binary
<clever> the runtime detection results in the best performance, and compatibility
<MichaelRaskin> How to annoy a NixPkgs packager quick: make your package depend on both OpenBLAS and ATLAS via different dependency chains, and make it impossible to pass OpenBLAS in both places. Especially annoying as the «AT» (auto-tunable) part is what we _do not_ want anyway…
<sphalerite> how does that auto-detection work?
<sphalerite> Just -march=native?
<gchristensen> MichaelRaskin: omfg openblas and atlas ...
<gchristensen> MichaelRaskin: ;_;
<MichaelRaskin> They run a lot of tests during the build to choose the unroll factors etc
<gchristensen> yup
<clever> sphalerite: in mplayer, there are large chunks of hand-optimized assembly
<MichaelRaskin> Which is Slow™
<clever> sphalerite: so it has to select the correct codepath, for the current processor
<sphalerite> oh wow, that sounds fun
<clever> sphalerite: it also has c implementations, which will probably perform slower
<MichaelRaskin> At least on some architectures
<clever> and if runtime detection is on, it can fallback sanely
<gchristensen> MichaelRaskin: hours and hours and hours of build time.
<sphalerite> Oh yeah, is there a way to express "soft dependencies" for a package? I'm thinking things that would be useful to have available at runtime but aren't absolutely necessary for a package to function and aren't required for a build, like gnome3.adwaita-icon-theme which is necessary for many gtk3 applications not to look ugly, but not necessary for them to function.
<sphalerite> Or more generally a sort of "gnome icon theme" metapackage sort of thing
<clever> sphalerite: plugins in browsers are that sort of thing
<clever> sphalerite: in that case, the browser is built without plugins by hydra, then the end-user builds a shell script, that sets an env variable saying where to find plugins
<clever> sphalerite: and the end-user builds a buildEnv to bundle all the plugins into 1 dir
<sphalerite> aaah right, like the vim config stuff works as well
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<mw> how do I disable nixos setting the light blue background color whenever I've landed in my wm?
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<clever> mw: one option is to put a background image at this location: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/master/nixos/modules/services/x11/desktop-managers/default.nix#L49
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<mw> clever: thanks, i'll make a 1x1px #55aaaa solid then :D
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<simpson> Before I set it, how much rebuilding can I expect `environment.noXlibs = true;` to do? All of it?
<clever> sphalerite: anything that depends on dbus, plus dbus itself
<clever> sphalerite: the only thing it directly affects, is if dbus uses x or not
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<simpson> Oh wow. Literally nothing rebuilt. I guess that Hydra builds the no-X11 variants already.
<clever> sphalerite: at least for what you have selected
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] corngood opened pull request #20721: WIP: openssl: add ubuntu version symbols to openssl-steam (staging...steam-openssl-version) https://git.io/v1T8Y
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<gchristensen> anyone here able to restart jobs on release-16.09?
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] jgeerds pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v1T4E
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 4642c33 Robert Roth: gnome-mines:update license to GPLv3
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master c6caa45 Jascha Geerds: Merge pull request #20707 from evfool/master...
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<gchristensen> domenkozar: can you restart all the failed tests on 16.09? they all pass locally.
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] garbas opened pull request #20722: pythonPackages.magic-wormhole: enable tests (master...fix-magix-warmhole) https://git.io/v1TBU
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nix] edolstra pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v1TBO
<NixOS_GitHub> nix/master 215b70f Eelco Dolstra: Revert "Get rid of unicode quotes (#1140)"...
<simpson> Python subsystem: The current packaged version of graphite-web doesn't work with the current Django. Is there a way to specify django_1_9 for that package in a way that works correctly?
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<simpson> I would be satisfied with a trick to do `django = django_1_9;` for an entire NixOS machine.
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<sheenobu> part my my screen is cracked. Any way to tell X11 to offset and restrict the screen?
<sheenobu> maybe I need xrandr...
<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] thoughtpolice pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v1TBd
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master c6b5131 Austin Seipp: nixpkgs: icestorm 2016.08.18 -> 2016.11.01...
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master a51378c Austin Seipp: nixpkgs: yosys 2016.08.18 -> 2016.11.25...
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