worldofpeace_ changed the topic of #nixos-dev to: #nixos-dev NixOS Development (#nixos for questions) | NixOS 20.03 BETA Announced | | | 19.09 RMs: disasm, sphalerite; 20.03: worldofpeace, disasm |
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<gchristensen> danderson: apologies, I'm not able to chat tonight
<danderson> no worries
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<bhipple> Is there a way to tell hydra to rebuild a pkg?
<bhipple> For example, I'm looking at ZHF issues, and while is currently failing, it's doing so because it panicked on too many open files (looks like Hydra overloaded issue), and passes locally / on master build / on release branch build if re-run
<cole-h> Ask for "restart" permissions from someone who can grant them
<cole-h> Unless you want to ping somebody who does have access
<cole-h> ...for every failing build
<bhipple> Hmm the Sign In w/ Google doesn't seem to work, expected?
<bhipple> I guess I need to register a Hydra account in the first place somehow
<cole-h> It works if you unblock
<cole-h> (assuming uBlock Origin -- had the same issue)
<cole-h> ``, I meant
<bhipple> Ahh thank you, that was it yes
<bhipple> gchristensen: (or someone else) can I get restart-jobs Hydra privilege on the account ?
<samueldr> bhipple: meanhile I restarted it
<bhipple> ty!
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<Profpatsch> whoever added to the nginx config generation is a friggin legend
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<arianvp> :)
<arianvp> git blame and then increase their karma
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<arianvp> it saved my ass a few times as well
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<dtz1> same, +1
<tilpner> tv: ^
<rnhmjoj> oh, about that: i used to have a "/riot" alias to pkgs.riot-web but it doesn't work anymore since apparently this is unsafe. do you know what i should do instead?
<bennofs> rnhmjoj: you might need a slash at the end
<rnhmjoj> bennofs: yeah, unfortunately that will change the url
<bennofs> rnhmjoj: oh? how does that change the url? I am not sure I understand your setup
<rnhmjoj> bennofs: /riot now gives a 404, it's redirected to /riot/ automatically
<bennofs> can you add a redirect from /riot to /riot/ ?
<rnhmjoj> * it's not
<rnhmjoj> with another alias?
<bennofs> yeah, or something like rewrite ^ /riot$ /riot/ (not sure I got the syntax for that 100% correct, I am not familar with nginx rewrite rules)
<bennofs> or something like location /riot { return 301 $scheme:// }
<Profpatsch> tv++ I guess
<{^_^}> tv's karma got increased to 2
<rnhmjoj> thank you, i'll try it
<gchristensen> "=/logfile" = {
<gchristensen> ^ might work
<rnhmjoj> btw, bennofs: can you take i look at my PR in nix-script?
<bennofs> rnhmjoj: oh sorry, I totally forgot that PR. Would it be ok for you if I give you push access to the repo? I'm not really using the project actively atm :)
<bennofs> the PR looks ok to me, thanks
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<rnhmjoj> bennofs: no worries. yes, it would be convenient if for occasional fixes: thank you
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<FRidh> Can hydra handle flakes yet? If so, how does it perform the fetching, considering fetchGit/fetchTarball cannot be used because of restrict-eval
<niksnut> yes
<niksnut> fetching is done by nix
<niksnut> it requires the flake to have a lock file
<FRidh> thus circumventing restricted eval?
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<worldofpeace> Heyyyy my Nix friends. I'm back. Anything pressing I should know about? (aside from you know, the release 🤣)
<andi-> worldofpeace: stay home! It is dangerous out there :)
<worldofpeace> andi-: Lol, nothing can stop me. I'm cloned across the universe, I cannot be destroyed :D
<domenkozar[m]> worldofpeace: have you seen star wars season with terminators?
<gchristensen> hey worldofpeace I'd love to DM with you in like 15min if you can? welcome back!
<worldofpeace> domenkozar: 😸 like star wars meets the terminator? I don't think I have.
<domenkozar[m]> ah
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<worldofpeace> gchristensen: 15 to 20 sounds good to me.
<domenkozar[m]> they were called replicators
<domenkozar[m]> and star gate..
<domenkozar[m]> I'll shut up now :D
<worldofpeace> domenkozar: Yeah replicators! I love these plots
<mkaito> I should watch stargate...
<mkaito> you nerds :P
<domenkozar[m]> I owned all seasons on DVDs back in high school, that was a lot of discipline to save up :D
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<domenkozar[m]> trace: Default graphical session, 'xfce+i3', not found.
<domenkozar[m]> Valid names for 'services.xserver.displayManager.defaultSession' are:
<domenkozar[m]> xterm
<domenkozar[m]> that's misleading?
<domenkozar[m]> ah, need to enable them still
<domenkozar[m]> still misleading
<jtojnar> Ericson2314++
<{^_^}> Ericson2314's karma got increased to 2
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<mkaito> huh, doman uses matrix, who knew
<mkaito> domen*
<domenkozar[m]> yeah, I'm quite on edge on quitting IRC though
<domenkozar[m]> their client is crap
<mkaito> I'm that annoying weechat guy from
<domenkozar[m]> I used weechat for years, but I don't want to run my own chat client anymore
<mkaito> how so?
<gchristensen> my chat with worldofpeace was delayed a good 30s-1m because of the matrix gateway
<mkaito> my beef with matrix is mostly the "soandso sent a long message, here click this link to read it" thing
<gchristensen> yes thath is incredibly bad
<niksnut> 2051 seems quite soon for the galactic singularity
<mkaito> but I'll be (fairly) certain to still use weechat and IRC by then :P
<ekleog> mkaito: OTOH, if it had been copy-pasted in IRC, someone'd have told him to use a pastebin service, so…
<gchristensen> mkaito: there is a middle ground, which irccloud found
<gchristensen> "«first ~200 characters of the message» more:";
<mkaito> that's a lot more acceptable, yes
<mkaito> a pastebin link usually comes with some context that helps you decide whether you want to click on it, while a matrix link is just clickbait.
<gchristensen> the Matrix messages provide no nutgraf to draw potential helpers in
<domenkozar[m]> oh did my snippet end up as a link?
<domenkozar[m]> that's a bit evil, it shows to me as text
<mkaito> I don't know what you posted :P
<mkaito> right before "trace: Default graphical..."
<gchristensen> it is evil
<domenkozar[m]> I mean they only need to change UX, I wouldn't mind pasting it as long as I know it's doing that
<gchristensen> there are a lot of simple options they could do which would make it less bad :P
<domenkozar[m]> maybe I should switch to ircloud, anyone has experience with it?
<domenkozar[m]> well to be honest I can't imagine it could be worse than matrix
<mkaito> why do you not want to run your own chat client?
<domenkozar[m]> because I value my time :)
<srk> you can run something like irccloud selfhosted with glowing-bear / weechat
<domenkozar[m]> 1. is needs to be a cloud service that I don't maintain
<domenkozar[m]> 2. it needs to be online all the time so I can subscribe to words
<domenkozar[m]> if it doesn't fulfill both it's dead to me :)
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<MichaelRaskin> Not sure if samueldr's logs for subscription and weechat for actual active chatting is more pain than the alternatives
<samueldr> you tell us :)
<samueldr> there's "the lounge" that is a self-hosted irc client, so it doesn't fit the "I don't maintain" unless you get someone to maintain it for you
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<worldofpeace_> Do we disallow backports of new nixos modules ?
<{^_^}> #82827 (by danderson, 5 days ago, open): tailscale: init at 0.97-0 [20.03 backport]
<worldofpeace_> I feel like backports of new packages are fine, but modules it's very different
<worldofpeace_> samueldr: ^
<gchristensen> in general module backports are avoided
<gchristensen> though I would like to see this one backported :)
<worldofpeace_> I think in some discussion of the backports policy (it's not a thing) there were good reasons to disallow them entirely?
<gchristensen> I don't think they were disallowed entirely
<gchristensen> but discouraged, and not lightly
<samueldr> worldofpeace_: generally it would be disallowed, but there's always place for your own discretion
<samueldr> yeah, there's no clear rule saying "no"
<worldofpeace_> Ooh, tailscale is cool
<gchristensen> the reasons I would like to see this one backported is the simplicity of the module and how few tentacles it has makes it low risk, and in addition to that, if we backport, we get to be on tailscale's website, which I think would be good for NixOS's visibility
<gchristensen> we also strengthen danderson's argument about using NixOS in production for tailscale. itself
<samueldr> that specific module is only a "+++", a no-op if not enabled, so I wouldn't see any issue if it was included
<worldofpeace_> I'd like to know what kind of release schedule it does, and what is the status of the project etc etc
<gchristensen> I don't mean to set precedent here ("put us on your website and we'll merge your PR"), I think the team behind it is uniquely interesting and I think riding their coat-tails a bit would be nice
<domenkozar[m]> hmm, why?
<gchristensen> what are you why-ing? :)
<MichaelRaskin> «uniquely interesting» looks like the part most inviting requests for elaboration
<gchristensen> the founders have done interesting work in the space (, and they've been able to hire well known people to the team, and they've done a good job catching people's eye
<worldofpeace_> Hmm, seems they have just recently became open source. That's cool
<srk> domenkozar[m]: no privacy concerns?
<domenkozar[m]> I encourage people to send me sensitive stuff via signal
<{^_^}> firing: BuildsStuckOverTwoDays:
<domenkozar[m]> I treat IRC like facebook
<domenkozar[m]> don't post it if you don't want it to be public
<mkaito> IRC is many things, but definitely not secure :P
<domenkozar[m]> exactly
<domenkozar[m]> pretending otherwise is just recipe for disaster
<domenkozar[m]> I mean it literally keeps a raw log on your HDD
<domenkozar[m]> it's police proof
<gchristensen> I thought IRC was totally private, like two ships meeting in the ocean in the middle of the night -- leaving no trace
<srk> there's always OTR for sensitive stuff
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<samueldr> there's nothing in IRC (the loosely defined protocol) that guarantees it is either private or not
<srk> domenkozar[m]: what do you mean by raw log on you HDD? most clients won't event log by default
<domenkozar[m]> gchristensen: except each ship has 1000 people with each their phone
<gchristensen> :P
<samueldr> the server could be logging every bit of information, it could also not
<samueldr> the client can be logging, but any client can for any protocol I guess
<samueldr> though that's not part of IRC
<gchristensen> samueldr: are you telling me Numb3rs lied to me?
<samueldr> IRC has about the same privacy guarantees as HTTP does
<samueldr> ass an S for on-the-wire S
<samueldr> add*
<domenkozar[m]> which reminds me, slovenian chamber of commerce sent a paper password notebook to all partners for xmas last year
<domenkozar[m]> nothing has made me freeze for longer in my life
<MichaelRaskin> I think for NemID (Nordic online identification system) the mailed one-time passwords (as a second password) are the default and majority mode.
<MichaelRaskin> And this is all citizens and long-term residents
<srk> it's not as about the privacy/security of the protocol itself but trusting a 3rd party with your communication and even passwords. e.g. I'm running ZNC instance for few people from local hackerspace and sometimes (or at some point) I would rather get rid of it and tell people to host ZNC or screen/irssi by themselves but for that you need something that runs 24/7 on relatively solid connection and "skills"
<srk> NixOS is ideal for self-hosted infrastructure like this -> SBC like rPi, few nix files, profit
<mkaito> my znc config is about a dozen lines of nix, and I haven't had to touch it in over a year, so "my time" is very much well used in that regard.
<srk> I'm not saying it's maintenance intense either. the only problem is that freenode limits connections from your bouncer IP and will start dropping users at some point
<srk> (that can be solved with freenode-staff as well)
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<danderson> hi - missed the discussion over tailscale
<danderson> worldofpeace_: so, I'm basing the backport request over a precedent I had with backporting the pppd nixos module into 19.09. The rationale then was similar to what gchristensen said about packages: it's a "leaf" module, which would only cause trouble if someone explicitly chooses to use it.
<danderson> So, it should be quite safe to backport.
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<danderson> (this was the reviewer's rationale at the time, I wasn't sophisticated enough to think about these things)
<danderson> If that was also wrong, then... well, I'll be sad, but there we go. But I'm getting the feeling that there's no clear rule here
<gchristensen> danderson: essentially it is up to worldofpeace_ :)
<worldofpeace_> lol, it's in my hands *laughs maniacally
<worldofpeace_> you've all made a grave mistake
<danderson> That's certainly fair. That said, from the other side of this conversation, some consistency in decision would be nice.
<worldofpeace_> just kiddding :D
<gchristensen> definitely
<danderson> in the sense that I've done 2 backport PRs so far; the outcome of 1 was "sure, that's obviously fine", and the other very similar one was "whoa, that doesn't seem right"
<danderson> which is mildly frustrating :)
<danderson> I'm okay with either one of those being the rule. But it's jarring to have the rules change from PR to PR.
<gchristensen> (or have an underlying rule which isn't clear)
<danderson> (maybe I shouldn't be complaining since the decision is going my way, but here we are, I am not a smart person)
<pie_[bnc]> worldofpeace is a good pr reviewer to have from what little ive seen ;3
<worldofpeace_> gchristensen: whattt we have maintainer teams?
<gchristensen> huh?
<MichaelRaskin> I for one think that danderson complaining about Nix* not having clear rules for… doesn't matter the topic actually… only shows their lack of experience-caused jadedness and does not reflect negatively on the code they contribute and its risk profile.
<worldofpeace_> gchristensen: ooh, it's still a draft
<MichaelRaskin> danderson: I think there was a question you could answer in a reassuring way: how stable are the config formats to configure tailscale-the-software by now?
<worldofpeace_> MichaelRaskin: that's a good question, thanks
<danderson> I'm not sure if I understand the question, but I'll try to answer :)
<danderson> most of the configuration is done using the `tailscale` CLI, which talks to the daemon and adjusts its config.
<danderson> The only bit of config that's in Nix, is a port number. I don't expect that to change.
<danderson> The only upcoming change I foresee is a way to auto-provision credentials (which currently requires a human running `tailscale up`). That would become a new optional config option in the nixos module.
<danderson> If we do end up adding ways to set options at daemon startup time, those would also become more optional knobs in the nixos module. But we have no plans to do that right now.
<danderson> is... that what you were asking?
<danderson> or did I answer a completely different question
<samueldr> I think they are orthogonal answers that end up answering the question
<lovesegfault> Was it here that people were talking about tailscale?
<MichaelRaskin> Why «were»
<cole-h> Still are
<cole-h> :P
<lovesegfault> I'm curious what thoughts on it are; it seems pretty cool
<danderson> technically, all conversation is always in the past
<cole-h> Begone, pedant!
<lovesegfault> I'd _much_ rather use something like that than my current ssh port madness
<danderson> lovesegfault: I have many opinions, but also am employed to build it, so I'm obviously biased.
<MichaelRaskin> Well, we are currently actively waiting whether worldofpeace is sufficiently reassured by the explanation that the tailscale module will not need to change much!
<worldofpeace_> lovesegfault: the current discussion is why it and what it means if it's backported to the stable release
<samueldr> danderson: I understand that configuration is done imperatively through a CLI, right?
<lovesegfault> danderson: I'd still like to hear them :)
<lovesegfault> worldofpeace_: welcome back!
<worldofpeace_> lovesegfault: I'm back glitches
<samueldr> does it make sense, and is there plan for a fully declarative configuration?
<samueldr> (though I don't think this affects the actual discussion of backporting)
<danderson> it... sort-of makes sense. There's some things up in the air regarding what configuration happens locally vs. gets pushed by the central control plane
<lovesegfault> danderson: wait, config is imperative? :(
<worldofpeace_> Ohh, just think of the matrix stuff with its declarative configuration. that's an entire pain for backports
<samueldr> right, that's what I kinda assumed, that the configuration must have been "in tailscale", and not local
<danderson> right. I have a plan to formalize the relationship between local and centralized config in the code
<gchristensen> worldofpeace_: (note the module makes no attempt at managing the imperative configuration)
<danderson> so that you can actually reason about "I configured this locally on this node only" vs. "this setting was pushed by the control plane"
<danderson> but until we have that, the flow for using tailscale is: install+start tailscaled, then use the `tailscale` CLI to make it do stuff.
<danderson> once we *do* have a principled mechanism for layering configurations from multiple sources, I could absolutely see having declarative config in the nixos module
<danderson> (in fact, I'd want that to auto-provision credentials on my nixos machines)
<danderson> The way the module is set up right now doesn't prevent doing that in future (as gchristensen says, the current module makes no attempt at all to manage this config)
<danderson> The current module is a minimal "enable and start the daemon" config. Any further declarative config down the road would be more optional knobs in the module.
<MichaelRaskin> And I guess one can continue using the imperative NixOS service even with later declaratively-configurable tailscale software version?
<danderson> lovesegfault: maybe #nixos-chat or /query for that? I don't want to pollute -dev any further than I already am
* lovesegfault nods and heads to -chat
<danderson> MichaelRaskin: correct. There's a dichotomy here where most desktop/"client" uses want a more imperative style of driving the daemon, and most "server" uses want a more declarative style
<danderson> right now the binary only supports the former. The latter's in the books, but not started yet.
<MichaelRaskin> I mean, declarative module could be larger and more complicated and thus even less likely to backport and so it is good to be sure that stable-branch users can just pretend the new module does not exist (or copy the new version and require it in the configuration, sure)
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<danderson> MichaelRaskin: that's the plan, certainly. There are plenty of linux users of the daemon who don't want to do declarative config.
<danderson> By and large, if you're using it on a random laptop to connect to stuff, you expect to run `tailscale up`, go through an OAuth dance, and then be on your way.
<danderson> so we're definitely not going to break that imperative workflow.
<danderson> otoh, on a server, you really want to provision it with some kind of pre-baked auth token, so that it can come up and mesh with everything without human interaction. That's the declarative flow we'd like to add.
<Profpatsch> worldofpeace_: let’s just merge the backport(s), I don’t see how we are creating any problems here.
<Profpatsch> danderson: If you move the changes over to the 19.09 PR, I’ll approve.
<Profpatsch> And don’t forget to port them to master as well :P
<danderson> ack and ack
<worldofpeace_> Profpatsch: danderson has explained it pretty well
<worldofpeace_> I didn't see much issues before, and with some more explaination it still sounds good
<worldofpeace_> I approve
<worldofpeace_> though this is weird to forward port Profpatsch
<danderson> worldofpeace_: ack also, I felt dirty doing that. I'll send a PR to master, then change the backports to be pure cherrypicks.
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<worldofpeace_> danderson: perfect, thanks.
<gchristensen> w00t
<gchristensen> fyi: #nixos-infra is a thing now for NixOS infra things.
<danderson> for fixing the tailscale package version + git ref in master
<{^_^}> #83238 (by danderson, 29 seconds ago, open): tailscale: switch version and git ref to use a tag.
<Profpatsch> gchristensen: oh nice, are maintainer mentions back online?
<gchristensen> I don't think they've ever been offline?
<gchristensen> were they? :P
<Profpatsch> gchristensen: it just requested a review from a co-maintainer on a PR that was opened Feb 10
<{^_^}> #79705 (by Profpatsch, 6 weeks ago, open): skawarePackages: support static builds via pkgsStatic
<Profpatsch> Maybe it was offline when the PR was opened
<gchristensen> hrm
<Profpatsch> Or the queue is very very long :)
<gchristensen> it is possible pmahoney wasn't part of the maintainer list, and your force-push noted they now are?
<Profpatsch> gchristensen: Oh, that could indeed be
<gchristensen> I don't suppose anyone who likes Emacs would like to look in to this problem where emacspackages' trivialBuild can't have more than 16 dependencies?
<{^_^}> #83230 (by mrkkrp, 2 hours ago, open): An Emacs package cannot have more than 17 dependencies
<Profpatsch> oh hi Mark
<gchristensen> ("oh hi doggie")
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<danderson> we mostly talked about 20.03 above. I also have for tailscale->19.09. That PR is a little bit more involved, because I had to backport a buildGoModule bugfix as well, and adjust the tailscale derivation to work on 19.09 (needed newer Go version).
<{^_^}> #82831 (by danderson, 5 days ago, open): tailscale: init at 0.97-0 [backport 19.09]
<danderson> Any thoughts on whether those extra changes push it over the edge of "don't backport" ?
<gchristensen> looks like bug fix?
<tilpner> All the other non-critical bug fixes aren't backported though?
<danderson> bug fix that only matters for tailscale though. Nothing else in 19.09 uses Go 1.13, which is what the bugfix touches
<worldofpeace_> Someone could still use buildGo113Module even if it's not in nixpkgs
<gchristensen> yeah
<worldofpeace_> probably should have been backported anyways
<danderson> it might only break sandbox builds? Not sure. The bug was that the build tried to reach out to a non-hermetic server to grab stuff.
<danderson> I'm actually not sure because I always build with sandboxing, but maybe the network isolation is a feature of buildGoModule
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<worldofpeace_> Is this of critical concern #82886 ?
<{^_^}> (by bennofs, 4 days ago, open): Fix evaluation of release-20.03-aarch64 jobset
<gchristensen> I think yes
<worldofpeace> yay i don't have to be alt worldofpeace anymore
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<cole-h> Ericson2314: In nix#3439, did you mean `fileIngestion*` over `fileInjestion*`, or did you mean `fileInjection*`?
<{^_^}> (by Ericson2314, 16 hours ago, open): WIP: Store parsed hashes in `DerivationOutput`
<cole-h> Or does "injestion" have some special meaning I'm unaware of
<Ericson2314> cole-h: haha yes I meant "Ingestion" whoops
<Ericson2314> That one doesn't even build yet due to some C++ shit I don't understand
<Ericson2314> sigh
<Ericson2314> niksnut: when you made a .clone() in C++ was that because you couldn't get the the C++ copy constructor to call clone?
<niksnut> you mean on StorePath?
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<Ericson2314> niksnut: sure, but I suppose the question generalizes to rust FFI in general
<niksnut> it was to get some rust-style discipline about not having implicit copies
<niksnut> but I regret it since it's a micro-optimisation
<danderson> tests look happy on , if someone wants to smash that like button - I mean merge
<{^_^}> #82827 (by danderson, 5 days ago, open): tailscale: init at 0.97-0 [20.03 backport]
<infinisil> Hehe
<danderson> Unsure about . worldofpeace was checking for no-op rebuild, but I don't know how to parse the output from ofborg to know if it's a no-op
<{^_^}> #82831 (by danderson, 5 days ago, open): tailscale: init at 0.97-0 [backport 19.09]
<Ericson2314> niksnut: OK thanks
<Ericson2314> It was bighting me a bit with templates when all the argument types need to have the same interface
<danderson> gchristensen: thanks!
<gchristensen> thank you!
<drakonis> samba appears to be broken
<srk> looks like I have discord working \o/
<srk> I mean discourse
<drakonis> discourse...
<srk> looks quite slow on just 2 cores
<srk> I wonder what hardware is needed for large site
<jtojnar> worldofpeace the maintainer teams PR has been merged into nixpkgs (in the most basic variant)
<jtojnar> will switch GNOME to that after we merge3.36
<{^_^}> #72125 (by jtojnar, 21 weeks ago, merged): lib: Add lib.maintainer-groups
<jtojnar> on that note, I think we can merge #81626 into master once gets mostly evaluated
<{^_^}> (by hedning, 2 weeks ago, open): Gnome 3.36
<{^_^}> firing: BuildsStuckOverTwoDays:
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<worldofpeace> Jan Tojnar: I was going to look over it, I think we're missing some throws
<worldofpeace> for the removed packages
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<danderson> hmm, I remember seeing a dashboard that showed how much of the nixos installer is deterministic. Anyone got a link?
<danderson> Google can't find it.
<gchristensen> it has been paused due to hardware availability, and should hopefully come back soon
<danderson> that's the one, thanks!
<danderson> gchristensen: so, more hardware on the way?
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