sphalerite changed the topic of #nixos-dev to: NixOS Development (#nixos for questions) | NixOS 19.03 released! https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixos-19-03-release/2652 | https://hydra.nixos.org/jobset/nixos/trunk-combined https://channels.nix.gsc.io/graph.html https://r13y.com | 19.03 RMs: samueldr,sphalerite | https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-dev
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<sphalerite> hm, I'm considering backporting linux_testing bumps, since linux_testing is "unstable" anyway and there's not much point in having an outdated unstable kernel on the stable branch. Thoughts?
<samueldr> I thought I asked them to be
<samueldr> ah, only asked for _latest
<samueldr> sphalerite: my thoughts are that they probably should be updated in sync with master; the kernel is in a special position within nixpkgs where every updates are brought in stable just as in unstable, main difference being the default LTS won't be changed in stable
<sphalerite> yeah
<sphalerite> I'd think the same would apply for any unstable/release-candidate/development-version software
<sphalerite> also, is there a reason why linux_testing isn't built by hydra?
<sphalerite> (done the backport)
<samueldr> looks like the author of `linux-testing.nix` wondered the same
<samueldr> not "the", but "an" author
<sphalerite> well, it would make me happy! :p
<samueldr> the question is open since 2014 :)
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<timokau> Is the dynamic linker on nix doing something special? I'm having problems understanding why a binary doesn't pick up a specific library, even though its location is first in rpath
<timokau> Mh issue seems to be that LD_LIBRARY_PATH gets preference over rpath
<timokau> ... which seems to contradict the ld.so manual, according to which DT_RPATH should be serached first of all
<timokau> Oh nevermind apparently there is a difference between rpath and runpath
<globin> samueldr, sphalerite: I always backported all testing/latest bumps
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<Irenes> so I felt like updating people on a thing I mentioned in #nixos a couple weeks ago
<Irenes> which is the status of my effort to find a way to have build infrastructure for 32-bit ARM
<samueldr> globin: good, then I think we pretty much all agree; probably good to write to NeQissimus(sp?) and sync so we have less duplicated work
<Irenes> since most physical 32-bit ARM machines are underpowered by modern standards, the approach that seems most viable to me is to run under qemu
<Irenes> the existing functionality in config.system.build.vm doesn't seem designed to work with a host and guest of different architectures
<Irenes> I am, however, making considerable progress with a proof-of-concept based on qemu
<Irenes> it's not automated enough yet, nor have I done the work to make the guest run Hydra
<samueldr> thinking of running it on qemu on x86_64?
<Irenes> if anybody sees a reason not to proceed with this approach, it would be great to hear about it. otherwise, I just wanted to brag.
<Irenes> yes
<samueldr> not that much faster than armv7 native on some sbcs
<samueldr> though, I came to a similar conclusion recently
<Irenes> yeah, but that way it could be run on EC2 instances so nobody has to physically build a farm
<Irenes> I've been doing a bunch of random experimenting and I should have a good sense of how the speed is going to compare within another couple days
<samueldr> but quite tangentially: instead of going with qemu-system emulation, I have a PoC of qemu-kvm on aarch64, running armv7l
<Irenes> oh nice!
<samueldr> compilation was about as fast as it was on aarch64
<Irenes> that sounds like a really solid approach
<samueldr> but that's only usable on aarch64 systems that can handle 32 bits
<samueldr> so, _not_ all of them
<Irenes> are there cloud providers that it could be run on?
<samueldr> cloud, maybe, not sure, but baremetal there might be, depending on their availability
<samueldr> (baremetal on demand, like packet.net)
* Irenes nod
<Irenes> makes sense
<Irenes> sounds viable then
<samueldr> though that's only been at a really PoC level, it worked fine with a customized kernel (LPAE for more than 3GiB of memory) and with patched grub so it'd EFI boot
<samueldr> grub will not need patches once they release their next update
<Irenes> I'm running mine with a stock kernel but I don't think needing an extra patch or config option is a big deal really
<samueldr> nah, not a big deal
<samueldr> LPAE is a kernel option
<samueldr> (but CANNOT be used on platforms missing LPAE)
<Irenes> I think most of the work to productionize it is going to be automating the build process
<samueldr> (which is why it can't just be default to yes in the kernel config)
<Irenes> that makes sense
<samueldr> though, personal biases maybe, using qemu with OVMF for EFI boot made this easy, once I had built a base system which EFI booted
<samueldr> (and in theory should work wherever mainline u-boot works)
<Irenes> heh, I cross-compiled a u-boot binary and passed it as the bios to qemu, using a guest image set up for extlinux
<Irenes> that approach felt natural since it's more or less how my physical ARM7 smolputer is set up
<samueldr> I tried with u-boot, but with kvm u-boot wasn't happy (or qemu wasn't)
<Irenes> yeah I can imagine kvm needing something else
<samueldr> it looked like something was disappearing shotly after boot, so either u-boot hung, or early kernel failed
<samueldr> though, those are mostly implementation details :)
<Irenes> yeah :)
<Irenes> so I'm going to be spending the next few days using my proof-of-concept to get my personal machines in a state that I'm satisfied with, and then I plan to dig into how config.system.build.vm is implemented and see whether it's possible to extend or fork for this setup
<Irenes> have you been able to cross-build a guest image at all? it would be a lot more convenient if that worked
<samueldr> I haven't tried cross-building a guest image
<Irenes> yeah I verified that the most naive possible approach does not work :)
<samueldr> I think that with the recent work it might be possible to get a good enough image to bootstrap a native build
<Irenes> yeah, which is all that's necessary
<samueldr> I did it by using an older image from dezgeg, and building a new system from a recent nixpkgs clone; then fixed things and technically I still have my "golden" efi bootable image
<Irenes> yeah that's exactly what I did also :)
<Irenes> except not with EFI
<Irenes> (the partition layout looks like EFI, but it isn't)
<samueldr> though, time being scarce other more important things have been prioritized
<Irenes> sure, yes
<samueldr> it's not "good", extremely WIP, but that's where I stopped https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/compare/master...samueldr:wip/armv7l-iso
<samueldr> a good chunk of the diff is for grub
<samueldr> and then, other than ARM_LPAE, mostly the usual stuff in the iso image
<Irenes> good stuff!
<Irenes> thanks :)
<Irenes> that's pretty impressive about getting EFI to work
<samueldr> how so?
<Irenes> just that so much "standard" stuff is missing on this architecture
<samueldr> (maybe I'm missing something since I also did some of the aarch64 EFI work)
<Irenes> ah, fair. you just know way more about EFI than I do then, probably.
<Irenes> I can assure you that from the level of knowledge I have, it seems challenging.
<samueldr> ah :) qemu uses tianocore on all four arches I know of (x86_32, x86_64, armv7, aarch64) so it's just a bog standard implementation
<Irenes> huh. neat. okay :)
<samueldr> and then on devices, yet untested with a real board
<samueldr> but technically u-boot has an EFI implementation
<Irenes> huh *nod*
<samueldr> so if you have u-boot, in theory you cna boot a standard iso made just like the x86_64 one, as long as it targets the right machine type
<samueldr> adding the minimum viable EFI to u-boot is, imho, the best move those that did it could do
<samueldr> u-boot is pretty much everywhere
<Irenes> heh, yeah
<Irenes> okay, I'm heading off for a bit, but really glad to have traded notes.
<samueldr> good luck :)
<Irenes> you too!
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