puck has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
puckipedia has joined #spectrum
puckipedia is now known as puck
ncm[m] has joined #spectrum
cole-h has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
colemickens has quit [*.net *.split]
thefloweringash has quit [*.net *.split]
thefloweringash has joined #spectrum
hiroshi[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
thefloweringash has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
ncm[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
smrtak[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
Ox4A6F has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
sab7iryudpgf6[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
Irenes[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
shu9 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
philipp[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Yakulu[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
danielrf[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
MilkManzJourDadd has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
vilhalmer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
vilhalmer has joined #spectrum
hiroshi[m] has joined #spectrum
ncm[m] has joined #spectrum
sab7iryudpgf6[m] has joined #spectrum
smrtak[m] has joined #spectrum
thefloweringash has joined #spectrum
shu9 has joined #spectrum
Ox4A6F has joined #spectrum
Irenes[m] has joined #spectrum
colemickens has joined #spectrum
hiroshi[m] has quit [Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM]
sab7iryudpgf6[m] has quit [Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM]
smrtak[m] has quit [Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM]
ncm[m] has quit [Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM]
shu9 has quit [Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM]
Ox4A6F has quit [Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM]
colemickens has quit [Client Quit]
thefloweringash has quit [Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM]
Irenes[m] has quit [Client Quit]
Irenes[m] has joined #spectrum
philipp[m] has joined #spectrum
enick_304 has joined #spectrum
MilkManzJourDadd has joined #spectrum
danielrf[m] has joined #spectrum
Ox4A6F has joined #spectrum
smrtak[m] has joined #spectrum
Yakulu[m] has joined #spectrum
sab7iryudpgf6[m] has joined #spectrum
shu9 has joined #spectrum
colemickens has joined #spectrum
ncm[m] has joined #spectrum
thefloweringash has joined #spectrum
hiroshi[m] has joined #spectrum
cole-h has joined #spectrum
alj[m] has joined #spectrum
<alj[m]>
test
alj[m] has left #spectrum ["User left"]
alj[m] has joined #spectrum
alj[m] has left #spectrum ["User left"]
alj[m] has joined #spectrum
<V>
alj[m]: test successful, assuming you were testing if other people can see your messages
<alj[m]>
awesome, the room was empty so i was unsure if it loaded correctly
<alj[m]>
so uh.. is the project dead?
<V>
alj[m]: matrix sucks (or at least its IRC bridge does)
<V>
alj[m]: no, but alyssa is somewhat busy working on it currently and doesn't have time to write about it actively
<alj[m]>
i see! thanks, i was really worried there for a sec
<alj[m]>
another day of being frustrated with Qubes...
<V>
hehe
<alj[m]>
i just want the shared/unified filesystem... i cant handle the fucking fragmentation in qubes anymore
<zgrep>
Out of curiosity, what in particular about it?
<zgrep>
(As in what's the use-
<zgrep>
(As in what's the use-case, I guess.)
<alj[m]>
on Qubes each vm has its own filesystem. I always run out of space and its hell to try to keep two or more vms in sync regarding config files or programs (that are not installed under the "template vm")
<zgrep>
Ah. Well, I guess that's what the template VM is... for. Is it possible to make a template VM based off of a template VM?
<alj[m]>
i want to configure my editor and terminal once, install the fonts, have it working and then continue on with my life, but for the past 5 years i've been using Qubes i've had to keep my stupid vms in sync
<zgrep>
What are the downsides of doing that in a template?
<alj[m]>
template vms are not used for stuff thats in your user directory.
<zgrep>
Depending on the editor, they often have a "global config" you could probably edit.
<zgrep>
(Also if you feel like torturing yourself, I guess there's always learning to use Salt.)
<alj[m]>
its emacs, which works (best) out of home dir, i think. and its not just the editor, right?
<alj[m]>
i did learn salt and use that for a while
<zgrep>
Mmh. I'm not as familiar with emacs, so I wouldn't know. But that would make sense.
<alj[m]>
but its equally torturous to have to work hours on your salt configs just because you want to change some settings in emacs or your terminal or whatever and then have it fail 10 times, to have it run over night so it runs through all my vms
<zgrep>
Most things generally have a global place for the config options, I thought (at least, using NixOS without home-manager makes me inclined to this so). But I also wouldn't know for certain.
<zgrep>
Ah, yeah. That makes sense.
<alj[m]>
another thing is that i use nix package manager (hype) in some vms, which does not work with templates
<zgrep>
Mmh. Is there not an easy way to explicitly mount certain directories as shared?
<alj[m]>
basically: its all horrible and i'm not exactly a noob when it comes to this stuff. i'm fed up with this bull*** and i want the unified filetree that spectrum will use (as far as i'm informed)
<zgrep>
Hehe. Fair.
<alj[m]>
not easy no. and explicitly discouraged
<zgrep>
Ah. That's... sad.
<alj[m]>
since that means having a space in the admin domain, thats accessible and changable by the appvms, right? or youd have to come up with some other weird workaround with read-only mounts and whatnot
<zgrep>
I guess it's sensible to discourage it generally, but that it's not particularly easy is sad.
<alj[m]>
yeah...
<zgrep>
I was thinking a space from one AppVM which you use to edit your config, and other VMs mount it read-only in some way. (I've never used Qubes, though, so I have no clue how things actually work.)
<alj[m]>
hmm.. interesting idea, but i'm not sure how much work that would be to implement
<alj[m]>
but omfg if qubes came out with a "user template" or whatever that would be overlayed over the homedir damn that would fix a lot of shit
<alj[m]>
also i miss using nix for config management... using it on my servers was such an enlightening experience
<alj[m]>
makes me sad that i cant just slap it on top of qubes, like i could with debian
<zgrep>
That's (part of) what's been keeping me from trying to use Qubes. :P
<zgrep>
I've gotten too used to nix. It's holding me hostage.
<zgrep>
What if you used the Template VM to edit configs, and had them be "in" your home directory with a symlink?
<alj[m]>
that would decrease some issues, but then i'd still have to manage across all my templates and make stuff work inside the templates (and templates are not supposed to work like appvms, or connect to the internet(!))
<hiroshi[m]>
I think qubes templates are the best choice for your case alj
<hiroshi[m]>
why not just use kvm with libvirt and see if that works
<alj[m]>
I am held hostage by the sense of security that Qubes gives me and all the time and effort i've put into configuring this beast
<hiroshi[m]>
did you configure standlone vms ?
<alj[m]>
kvm and libvirt? you mean just start fresh?
<hiroshi[m]>
kvm+libvirt - means using an hypervisor old school for desktop too
<alj[m]>
i'm using one standalone and apart from that lots of appvms
<alj[m]>
yeah i know i used kvm and libvirt before, it was... an experience
<hiroshi[m]>
how much disk space do you have in that standalone vm ?
<alj[m]>
uh.. total like 30 gigs?
<hiroshi[m]>
you aren't force to use templates in qubes os. but it is really nice to do it because qubes devs created a lvm 'snapshot' - so your appVm will only containes your data, so you can switch between templates really fast and easy
<hiroshi[m]>
if you really want to share all in one appVm (with your custtom template) maybe you can try to run podman rootless containers for all your lisp stuff there
<alj[m]>
i might give that style of templates a shot... i have never tried to do it like this, since qubes people dont do it like that afaik
<alj[m]>
but we can all agree that this sucks right?
<hiroshi[m]>
no really
<hiroshi[m]>
qubes os is a os in his own league
<hiroshi[m]>
all the big distro devs don't care enough about security, isolaton
<alj[m]>
well.. i know that?! :D and i am using Qubes for that exact reason, and if it weren't for some of these issues, id love every second. but then i try to install haskell tooling for uni and run out of storage again and i'm just tired of it
<hiroshi[m]>
ahahah
<hiroshi[m]>
I don't know why you can't extend your lvm for your app home to 400G for example
<alj[m]>
i can, but i dont have that much space in my laptop xD
<hiroshi[m]>
well there you have it.
<hiroshi[m]>
which laptop do you have ?
<alj[m]>
dont say that like its a "gotcha". I'm mad about all the storage i'm losing to qubes being qubes, and the partitioning between template/appvm that would require me to expand two partitions right now, and i cannot simply shrink the partitions again after i'm done with them because qubes
<alj[m]>
the kind of laptop is completely irrelevant and i have 250GB total storage in there, which would be more than enough, but isnt.
<hiroshi[m]>
250G ? that isn't enough even for a working gentoo desktop