<ameliadafloof[m]>
i saw the page for this and i was
<ameliadafloof[m]>
kinda curious
<ameliadafloof[m]>
could I ask some questions?
<ameliadafloof[m]>
does Spectrum have the same pitfall where anything with graphics doesnt rawlly work
<ameliadafloof[m]>
unless you can do VFIO with multiple gpus (which im too poor for XD)
<JJJollyjim1>
AIUI it will “work” seamlessly enough with software rendering
<JJJollyjim1>
but games won’t have playable framerates in VMs
<ameliadafloof[m]>
Oof
<ameliadafloof[m]>
I assume Spectrum also does the similar model with dom0 and then all the vms
<ameliadafloof[m]>
so you cant run anything lcoally really right?
<JJJollyjim1>
I don’t think that part of spectrum is super well developed? The host is just linux though, you can do whatever if you want to opt out of the isolation
<JJJollyjim1>
when you say “similar” and “same pitfall”, is it Qubes you’re comparing to?
<ameliadafloof[m]>
mhm
<ashkitten>
my understanding is that spectrum will potentially have the capability for hardware accelerated rendering
<ameliadafloof[m]>
so Spectrum is a new distro I take it?
<JJJollyjim1>
oh, GVT-g might be an option on intel laptops
<JJJollyjim1>
is that what you’re referring to ashkitten?
<ashkitten>
iirc there was some potential for vulkan api passthrough or something of that kind
<JJJollyjim1>
ooo okay cool
<ashkitten>
but i don't remember where i came to that understanding
<ashkitten>
so it might be incorrect
<JJJollyjim1>
SR-IOV feels like a good solution to me, but both AMD and NVIDIA lock it down to overpriced pro/“workstation” cards
<JJJollyjim1>
and maybe there’s security flaws in that which i’m no aware of
<ameliadafloof[m]>
lol Ima have to just invest in a second gpu at some point
<ameliadafloof[m]>
xd
<JJJollyjim1>
the vulkan thing definitely sounds interesting
<ameliadafloof[m]>
seems p cool
<JJJollyjim1>
ah, virtio-gpu
<ameliadafloof[m]>
i just gotta hope an 850w psu can handle a 3900x an rx580 and a more powerful card
<ameliadafloof[m]>
xD
<pie_>
in my extremely limited understanding spectrum will for a good while not be far enough along fo rany of this to be more than speculative though
<pie_>
(?)
<pie_>
so if you start saving up for a gpu you might even have enough money by the time its usable :PP
* pie_
continues chugging along with whatever is built into his laptop on normal nixos...
<JJJollyjim1>
you mean with no virtualisation?
<pie_>
without virtualization its just normal linux no? is tere anything to talk about at that point so to speak?
<JJJollyjim1>
yeah exactly
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<lejonet>
ameliadafloof[m]: 850W will be more than enough for that, I have an 3900X, RX 570 and a RX 5600 XT on a 850W EVGA Supernova :)
<qyliss>
Spectrum _might_ support the stuff GPU vendors are doing to support having multiple VMs using the same GPU
<qyliss>
crosvm supports this aiui
<qyliss>
(also hello, I'm sorry for not looking at IRC for a while)
<qyliss>
special hello to JJJollyjim1 -- sorry I wasn't around here to welcome you and answer your first questions
<JJJollyjim1>
oh all good haha
<qyliss>
well, please do reach out if you have any more :)
<lukegb>
the SR-IOV stuff?
<lukegb>
or something else - I got the impression noone was in a hurry to ship SR-IOV to consumer GPUs
<JJJollyjim1>
yeah, except maybe intel
<qyliss>
I wonder what it's like on the arm laptop side
<qyliss>
my instinct is that I should be focusing on laptops
<qyliss>
(fwiw: GPUs have a pretty terrible record with security features, so no matter what there will remain strong reasons to avoid sharing GPUs between VMs at all)
<multi>
what's the arm laptop ecosystem like these days? last time i checked two or so years ago it was mostly chromebooks iirc
* multi
has an unloved rk3399 chromebook sitting in a drawer ~somewhere~
<puck>
<qyliss> Spectrum _might_ support the stuff GPU vendors are doing to support having multiple VMs using the same GPU <- if vfio-pci passthrough is supported, this will mostly just work, fwiw
<puck>
both the intel and Nvidia stuff work by having an "mdev", which is a virtual vfio-pci device; though both are .. not guaranteed to have proper isolation
<qyliss>
multi: now it's macbooks too
<multi>
oh right, of course
<hypokeimenon[m]>
Windows 10 on arm via their Surface Pro X line, Apple through their M1 Mac minis and Macbooks and Qualcomm Chromebooks also.
<hypokeimenon[m]>
There is a Pinebook Pro that runs Manjaro/others a Rockchip 3399, I think.
<hypokeimenon[m]>
* There is a Pinebook Pro that runs Manjaro/others a Rockchip RK3399, I think.
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<samueldr>
there *may* be qualcomm chromebooks on the horizon
<samueldr>
which AFAIUI *may* be mid-range instead of entry level hardware
<samueldr>
there's also mediatek chromebooks... but even the chromeos team couldn't do enough to paper over mediatek being mediatek :/
<samueldr>
I'm not even sure how the mediatek chromeos hardware compares to rk3399
<hypokeimenon[m]>
Yes, the Qualcomm chromebooks are taking a while to get out of the gates.
<hypokeimenon[m]>
* There is a Pinebook Pro that runs Manjaro/others on a Rockchip RK3399, I think.
<samueldr>
considering that mediatek hw was priced the same as rk3399, with entry-level specs (screen resolution and such) I would assume only a generational improvement at best
<samueldr>
yeah, pinebook pro is close to running mainline linux stock with full support
<samueldr>
and IIRC you can get started with mainline linux to then update the kernel to one with the few still needed patches
<samueldr>
I was wrong, that single patch is for mainline linux to work *with the display*, though I believe some other quality of life patches may still be needed
<samueldr>
(I'm out of touch, it's been probably close to a year since I last looked at the platform)
<hypokeimenon[m]>
wonder if Pine have any plans to release with an updated RK3588 SoC or something like that. From what I understand the Pinebook Pro is a rebranding of some Asus chromebook.
<samueldr>
oh boy, not at all a rebranding of asus chromebook
<samueldr>
:)
<samueldr>
pine64 already had experience with going from an SBC to a laptop form factor with the Allwinner A64-based Pinebook (A64)
<samueldr>
and they have a few SBC designs, one which used the RK3399
<hypokeimenon[m]>
That's good to hear.
<samueldr>
the motherboard is entirely their design
<samueldr>
well, as much as designing an SBC is
<hypokeimenon[m]>
* wonder if Pine have any plans to release with an updated RK3588 SoC or something like that. From what I understand the Pinebook Pro is a rebranding of some Asus chromebook. EDIT: corrected below!
<samueldr>
the computer case, though, and display, and all that, I believe is ODM deals
<samueldr>
e.g. they find an ODM with a design that matches their requirements, or that can fit a design into their requirements
<samueldr>
which is how most small time products end up designed
<samueldr>
so yes, it's likely they have plans to do something like that
<hypokeimenon[m]>
* wonder if Pine have any plans to release with an updated RK3588 SoC or something like that. <del>From what I understand the Pinebook Pro is a rebranding of some Asus chromebook.</del> EDIT: corrected below!
<samueldr>
though first they're bringing out their RK3588 SBCs to get the SoCs and hardware in the hands of developers :)
<samueldr>
and the chromebooks, funnily enough, are less of a single manufacturer's designs, but generally a base design that was developed in tandem with the chromeos team adapted by every manufacturers
<hypokeimenon[m]>
any good place to get performance comparisons between the RK3399 and RK3588 apart from say cnx?
<samueldr>
the chromeos design "technically" doesn't use an RK3399, but an "OP1"
<samueldr>
sorry, no idea :)
<hypokeimenon[m]>
<samueldr "the chromeos design "technically"> oh yes, I remember seeing this
<samueldr>
I'm not even sure how to get a good performance comparison for hardware I have on hand :)
<samueldr>
it was said at some point [citation needed] that OP1 were either: binned for higher clock rates, had a different boot rom
<samueldr>
but neither of those have been verified AFAIK
<samueldr>
though the chromeos board design definitely deviates from the default RK3399 design assumptions
<samueldr>
and its boot flow is mediated through a custom google design with coreboot