qyliss changed the topic of #spectrum to: A compartmentalized operating system | https://spectrum-os.org/ | Logs: https://logs.spectrum-os.org/spectrum/
<qyliss> cole-h: (moving here from #nixos since there's another conversation going on there rn)
<cole-h> Oh
<cole-h> Right
<cole-h> I remember seeing this
<cole-h> lol
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<textmate> qyliss: Do you think youll be able to have a minimal codebase that can be applied as a patchset to nixOS? Just thinking of security so that it can be reviewed easily incase of specific attacks
<qyliss> No, Spectrum will be very different to NixOS
<qyliss> NixOS gets too much wrong, unfortunately
<textmate> hmok
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<MichaelRaskin> Hopefully you would still be able to benefit from 0078…
<MichaelRaskin> (I expect parts of SpectrumOS that are theoretically shareable with NixOS and not shareable via 0078 to be pretty minimal; HW isolation has to be from-scratched and bootscripts can be small enough to review easily)
<MichaelRaskin> textmate: but also the first version will clearly not pass a harsh review, because just looking for SIGSEGV at wl_roots tracker is not a pretty sight. But it will have many critical building blocks
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<hyperfekt> many things
<hyperfekt> > that are being developed for spectrum as part of the nlnet grant seem independent to the stuff nixos gets wrong, or am i mistaken about that?
<MichaelRaskin> Well, it might be easier to boot the hardware isolation pieces without systemd with its opinion on everything
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<textmate> MichaelRaskin: ok
<textmate> I am super glad that this project exists as I believe this is 100% the way to go instead of Qubes, I think I will be using for many years still though
<textmate> however* using Qubes*
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<ehmry> MichaelRaskin: i think the adoption of exotic nixos derivatives will be driven by how close their configuration model is to nixos, so 0078 is important
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<qyliss> what's 0078?
<MichaelRaskin> RFC 0078: use configuration file generators that are inspectable, tweakable, and usable outside of NixOS, too
<qyliss> interesting
<MichaelRaskin> ehmry: it is an explicit goal that it should very easy to have configuration model close to NixOS, but one the other hand the code should be also easy to black-box incapsulate
<MichaelRaskin> (lead author of RFC 0078 is me, Sander will hopefully confirm co-authorship, Eelco's reaction at NixCon was overall positive)
<qyliss> I like this
<qyliss> I especially like that it doesn't seem to be really tied to the module system at all
<qyliss> and that presumably config file generators can't depend on the values of random configuration values in a different namespace
<MichaelRaskin> Yes, they are pure functions
<MichaelRaskin> Kind of not completely untied from modules system
<MichaelRaskin> Deep merge and type checking are desirable, people won't lose them, so module system type checking is specified
<MichaelRaskin> But yeah, it is module system as in «define typechecking and merging for well-delimited single-topic configurations», not «how can we get back all the problems of distributed effects in a global shared space»
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<textmate> MichaelRaskin: Where can I read the spec?
<MichaelRaskin> https://github.com/nixos/rfcs/pull/78 — it is strictly speaking a proposal in early state of discussion
<textmate> Ah ok
<textmate> When its somewhat ready you should release a PDF, no?
<MichaelRaskin> No, why?
<textmate> So its pleasing for the reader
<MichaelRaskin> These are Nix RFCs, their primary format is markdown
<textmate> what is the difference between a nix rfc and a regular rfc
<MichaelRaskin> Regular b you mean IETF RFC?
<textmate> maybe I am misunderstanding something
<textmate> Yes
<MichaelRaskin> IETF RFCs govern networking interoperability specifications (although, actually, they are supposed to lead to IETDF Standards\)
<textmate> ok
<MichaelRaskin> Since their introduction a lot of projects have introduced some kind of a vaguely similar RFC process for in-project specifications
<textmate> Ah I see
<textmate> this makes more sense.
<ehmry> is anyone already translating `systemd.services.*` to some other init?
<textmate> based if true
<MichaelRaskin> You mean automatically? There is built-in, very restricted, functionality, that turns out to be enough for my usecase
<textmate> what if
<textmate> openrc
<ehmry> MichaelRaskin: link?
<textmate> was compatible with systemd .service files
<MichaelRaskin> ehmry: just grab my slides
<ehmry> right
<ehmry> MichaelRaskin: BTW, there is a #nixos-exotic channel now for exotic nixos
<textmate> exotic = lew
<textmate> ?
<MichaelRaskin> I thought it is for exotic platforms?
<textmate> lewd*
<textmate> nvm
<ehmry> exotic hardware and software platforms, so no-systemd kind of stuff
<textmate> I see
<MichaelRaskin> Hmm, can't systemd work on some MIPS Linux?
<ehmry> probably, I thought systemd was supposed to be an embedded thing
<pie_> idk if this is just a thing in my head
<pie_> but systemd is more than an init system
<pie_> so you cant just say what if systemd but openrc
<pie_> (?)
<ehmry> pie_: yes, but if you sandbox aggressively enough, the rest doesn't matter?
<pie_> dunno but ok, thanks for the input
<pie_> oh good thing i peeked in here <ehmry> MichaelRaskin: BTW, there is a #nixos-exotic channel now for exotic nixos
<pie_> what if there are nixos channels im not in????
<pie_> though that sounds like it would have some overlap with the nixos for routers channel which i forgot the name of
<MichaelRaskin> nix-wrt ?
<pie_> #nixos-on-your-router
<pie_> i think its fine either way, just sayung
* ehmry didn't know that was a channel
<qyliss> ehmry: I think Profpatsch has done systemd to other init translation too
<qyliss> maybe s6?
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<Profpatsch> qyliss: not really, but I know a bit of s6
<Profpatsch> mostly execline though, I’m slowly getting more familiar with s6