<gchristensen>
aooaeoaeuaoeaoeuaoeu thatkn you pie_[bnc]
<pie_[bnc]>
sooo...I guess youtube lost about 2-3 minutes? :P
<pie_[bnc]>
might want to resummarize then?
<samueldr>
mostly introductory words
<samueldr>
otherwise "we're going to talk about the linked discourse post
<pie_[bnc]>
I'd call it staging
<pie_[bnc]>
or some form of that
<pie_[bnc]>
its just a coincidence of using the wrong word to describe it initially :p
<pie_[bnc]>
NUR isnt promoted oficially - or at least not visibly?
<pie_[bnc]>
oh no maybe I should be on the call, I have things to say xD
<adisbladis>
Imho: A nixpkgs attribute is a promise of me being able to build that package. A broken package is a broken promise and a failure in nixpkgs maintainership
<samueldr>
(forgot to lower the hand)
<worldofpeace>
adisbladis: yes
<pie_[bnc]>
samueldr: even if expresisons are broken, what about expressions that partly contain some informatin that may have taken work to figure out for the pakcage
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<pie_[bnc]>
bleh, dual-tasking :D (trying to listen too)
<pie_[bnc]>
samueldr: did that make any sense?
<pie_[bnc]>
worldofpeace: can we define / did we define "broken"?
<samueldr>
pie_[bnc]: I hear the concern, and that's why I said "a chunk are going to be trivial"
<adisbladis>
I wonder how it would turn out to require 100% of packages to build 100% of the time...
<worldofpeace>
there was a note on that in the thread by timokau
<worldofpeace>
^ adisbladis
<samueldr>
I think broken for a longer span of time means there is no interest in having it fixed, and longer span of time means that the "non-trivial fixes" may not even be relevant anymore
<adisbladis>
samueldr: Yes!
<samueldr>
adisbladis: 100% in a sliding window
<samueldr>
keeping broken packages for a defined length of time, and dropping them once it's done
<adisbladis>
I like this idea a lot.
<samueldr>
because it may happen that branch-off day +1 something breaks in unstable, a user of that uses stable wouldn't see that breakage until the next stable release
<pie_[bnc]>
worldofpeace: if there was _somewhere_ that was promoted as a location for less high quality packages, people might put them there instead?
<pie_[bnc]>
worldofpeace: you mentioned AUR, I dont know how it works - but we dont have an "official" AUR, + curated set
<adisbladis>
pie_[bnc]: We have NUR though
<samueldr>
it's not even about lesser quality, but a repository of once-working husks
<worldofpeace>
pie_[bnc]: nur is not curated
<pie_[bnc]>
adisbladis: but its not really promoted
<adisbladis>
[curation]: AUR is also not really curated?
<pie_[bnc]>
flokli: I just dont want broken husks to be unfindable
<pie_[bnc]>
flokli: I run some obscure software sometimes
<pie_[bnc]>
flokli: if theres a half-packaged version I'm still better off than trying to redo it all myself?
<samueldr>
next+1 (a full year) due to some bad luck in timing that could cut it short for some users
<flokli>
pie_[bnc]: sure, but in that case, why keeping the half-broken thing in nxipkgs, if you don't use /that/ version?
<pie_[bnc]>
flokli: im not against moving them somewhere else as long as they dont "disappear"
<flokli>
in that case, removing it from nixpkgs, and moving it to your NUR migth be a better choice
<worldofpeace>
samueldr: sounds good to me for that duration
<samueldr>
maybe a project could index removed derivations
<worldofpeace>
flokli: an alias to an nur attrbitue
<pie_[bnc]>
nixpkgs is a massive expert system database
<worldofpeace>
but flakes is probably a better hypothetical here
<samueldr>
because it's never going to be diligently moved to an "archives" nixpkgs repo
<adisbladis>
Auto-removal could mean dumped in an overlay repo
<pie_[bnc]>
im not sure making packages little kingdoms would be good
<worldofpeace>
pie_[bnc]: that's not what we're accepting
<pie_[bnc]>
didnt think so, just sayin
<adisbladis>
Nooo! Don't cram more stuff in the channels :/
<adisbladis>
Channels are already too magical
<samueldr>
was about to use something along that line
<gchristensen>
hehe
<pie_[bnc]>
doesnt necessarily need to be the specific channel mechanism
<samueldr>
making channels even more magical than a simple checkout of the repo is dangeour
<samueldr>
dangerous*
<samueldr>
in groking the system :)
<adisbladis>
General idea ++
<gchristensen>
=)
<samueldr>
same
<samueldr>
as we spoke about channels last office hours, it's already confusing for some people
<pie_[bnc]>
sidenote if we find a general way to attach additional metadata to nixpkgs i think that would be quite good
<pie_[bnc]>
consider that there are recurring groups of people that make changes ALL OVER nixpkgs
<samueldr>
problem: we have packages missing maintainers
<pie_[bnc]>
I feel like forcing people to accept maintainership to add a package isnt good
<adisbladis>
pie_[bnc]: What's the alternative?
<pie_[bnc]>
it might be good if you can get it to work as you want
<samueldr>
I feel like adding a package without maintaining it is not good, that's how we get broken packages
<pie_[bnc]>
th ealternative is not getting packages
<adisbladis>
Imo not getting packages is better than broken ones
<pie_[bnc]>
i presume one does not merge packages that dont build
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<pie_[bnc]>
what tpflug is saying sounds kind of like the "descriptive vs prescriptive" thing and I'm incluned to agree
<gchristensen>
say more?
<pie_[bnc]>
ideally you can get both things to work together though
<gchristensen>
oh I see what you mean.
<pie_[bnc]>
people want to add something they spent time on so that others dont have to do it (well this is how I approach it), a goal could be to leverage that to get close to actually good and usable contributions<pie_[bnc]> I feel like forcing people to accept maintainership to add a package isnt good
<pie_[bnc]>
the reason im so adamant about this is i feel like the stuff i would be posting if i actually made PRs wouldnt be up to par (or at least not up to my standards), but still several days of work, etc
<gchristensen>
let's discuss further after this part of the call :)
<pie_[bnc]>
sure, ill probably get distracted though, but feel free to poke me
<gchristensen>
k
<gchristensen>
ok* sounds good :)
<pie_[bnc]>
you guys have a lot more sweng and nixpkgs contribution experience than I do, so I totally acknowledge your experience
<pie_[bnc]>
I Have Opinions :p
<gchristensen>
we likely have the classic "44 people and 45 opinions" situation :)
<pie_[bnc]>
I just have inclinations to want monotonic even if slow progress forward :p
<pie_[bnc]>
though one could argue pruning large heavy branches lets you go faster
<gchristensen>
I wonder if we can turn off auto-play at the channel level
<pie_[bnc]>
nah just nixos-office-radio next time ;P
<samueldr>
you can't even turn it off at a user level :(
<gchristensen>
it might be possible under some sort of "brand safety" option thing
<gchristensen>
"Recently YouTube has added a very annoying feature that is hurting my business. I'm a real estate agent that puts videos of listings on YouTube. But YouTube is automatically playing the COMPETITION'S videos after mine. Making the video totally useless to me. "
<kraem>
thank you for the stream :)
<gchristensen>
thank you for coming, kraem!
<pie_[bnc]>
adisbladis: people talk about just y/n bad packages a lot but has there been serious discussion about a more staged model?
<pie_[bnc]>
ofc. thats still more work
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<infinisil>
Whoops I missed it
<gchristensen>
we have mostly the whole thing on youtube!
<infinisil>
:D
<gchristensen>
I need to make a literal paper check-list.