gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-officehours to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1UzI2SqEb8
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<savanni> Office hours today?
<gchristensen> yep!
<savanni> woo!
<worldofpeace> totally, like soo totally savanni
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<aanderse> grahamc: my laptop was swapped on me very recently. is there any way to test zoom without having to join a meeting that you know of?
<savanni> aanderse: zoom has some test features in the configuration menus.
<worldofpeace> I think you can start a test meeting even, but not invite anyone
<aanderse> thanks all
<zimbatm> is there a countdown until officehours?
<gchristensen> 1h!
<zimbatm> thanks :)
<aanderse> 30 minutes
<aanderse> ;-)
<gchristensen> oh goodness
<gchristensen> hi yes my name is Graham Christensen, I got 3 hours of sleep last night, and I am running late :P
<andi-> You just get up too early!
<gchristensen> nah ... I slept in :/
<gchristensen> okay we're on track I think :)
<infinisil> Do we have any topics for today already?
<gchristensen> very casual, participant-driven :)
<flokli> gchristensen: can you post the zoom url here?
<flokli> gchristensen: you're much more silent compared to worldofpeace
<flokli> I'm adjusting volumes between you two ;-)
<flokli> anyways, better now
<samueldr> it's okay, but different
<andi-> is there a GH URL for this weeks edition?
<worldofpeace> gchristensen: here's a merged patch https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/77463
<{^_^}> #77463 (by flokli, 42 minutes ago, merged): firefoxPackages.icecat: mark as insecure
* andi- boots a browser
<LnL> the jobsets are linked directly on status/howoldis :)
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<andi-> for anyone else that tries to run a webbrowser: mpv https://www.youtube.com/watch\?v\=iRUBTBtxNu8
<samueldr> the mouse cursor is not visible in our view
<worldofpeace> ah samueldr
<adisbladis> Someone who isn't me needs to look into why the zoom derivation takes _forever_ to build
<samueldr> the trick is to keep re-using the same build that's GC rooted :)
<samueldr> pro-mode: use it on the laptop you're not really using for anything else anyway
<adisbladis> samueldr: But I don't wanna stick zoom either in my user profile or my system :/
<adisbladis> samueldr: Ahh, one of those spare laptops...
<adisbladis> I don't have one of those
<samueldr> it's not spare, it's more about the fact that I'm not working away from my home office :)
<flokli> adisbladis: it's bash and assembling the library list for autopatchelfhook
<samueldr> a good point could also be "what's a channel?"
<adisbladis> flokli: Ahh.. The wonders of nonfree software -.-
<samueldr> tangibly, it's not obvious to understand what it is
<LnL> good point
<adisbladis> flokli: Do you know why we're not manually patching it?
<flokli> adisbladis: I assume because autoPatchelfHook is more convenient (except it's slow)
<flokli> if an ELF has a NEEDED which isn't satisfied in the buildInputs, it'll fail building
<flokli> and not be a runtime error
<samueldr> samuel dhurr lol
<flokli> let's do the autopatchelf discussion elsewhere - i have a lot of ideas about it, but a bit too much for here ;-)
<worldofpeace> samueldr: lol
<worldofpeace> sorry
<samueldr> no worries
<zimbatm> I was going to mention the programs.sqlite :)
<zimbatm> which is used by command-not-found
<samueldr> "dee harr" is fine, just samuel, too; those are my last name initials, in case it's not obvious to y'all
<samueldr> zimbatm: an alternative for those not using the channels is the command-not-found in nix-inde
<samueldr> nix-index*
<worldofpeace> I've gone through many variations samueldr :D
<zimbatm> indeed
<samueldr> I've not been using channels since about forever
<zimbatm> we could also talk about the channels: URI shortcut
<samueldr> good point zimbatm
<worldofpeace> yep zimbatm
<samueldr> also how channels work on the system, tangibly
<samueldr> how it maps to NIX_PATH
<zimbatm> 👍
<samueldr> compared to using NIX_PATH=nixpkgs=$HOME/my-nixpkgs-checkout
<samueldr> (I don't have a default NIX_PATH with .nix-defexpr and not exactly used to it)
<samueldr> (btw I know the explanations, I just think that in this channels extravaganza they're helpful topics)
<adisbladis> <3 samueldr
<{^_^}> samueldr's karma got increased to 147
<adisbladis> Totally not obvious or easily discoverable topics
<worldofpeace> yep, this is actually a bit of confusion I first had when first using nixos
<worldofpeace> and I was like Oh
<zimbatm> also good to know, `nix-channel --list` doesn't respect the NIX_PATH and only lists the user channels, even if the user has the root channels on the NIX_PATH
<adisbladis> Luckily I found out early, so I never really used channels
<samueldr> ooh, don't forget about names that are not specifically listed
<zimbatm> `nix-channel --list` vs `sudo nix-channel --list` can be confusing
<samueldr> NIX_PATH=$PWD;
<samueldr> <foobar> will look in $PWD/foobar
<adisbladis> zimbatm: Not to speak of that it doesn't even list root channels...
<adisbladis> gchristensen: maybe worth mentioning ^
<zimbatm> `NIX_PATH=.` :D
<adisbladis> zimbatm: Introduce a bit of randomness to your day
<zimbatm> just make sure to have nixpkgs sub-folders in all your repos :p
<samueldr> zimbatm: I hate that
<adisbladis> nixpkgs symlinks in all the directories
<samueldr> just like windows :)
<samueldr> (windows and PATH)
<adisbladis> #<include> /dev/stdin
<adisbladis> Wrong syntax, gah
<adisbladis> Typing on my phone
<LnL> heh
<infinisil> "Search path lookup"
<zimbatm> now we know what the S stands for
<zimbatm> also above HPATH for ~Home path?
<samueldr> this is where it's well explained
<aanderse> gsoc?
<samueldr> a "free" idea for GSoC could be i18n support in nix
<worldofpeace> ooh, wait what does that really mean though samueldr ?
<samueldr> something that's a given plus for the software, while not clashing against existing efforts
<samueldr> i18n as in translating messages in nix
<samueldr> oh no, those bridges are horrible UX
<adisbladis> That would be _amazing_
<samueldr> pine64 uses those and it's horriblle
<adisbladis> I've spoken to a lot of new nix users coming from china
<adisbladis> It would really make adoption for those easier
<worldofpeace> was this the thing in rust https://github.com/dtolnay/cxx
<adisbladis> worldofpeace: Yep
<samueldr> technically nix can't be used in our provincial government until it's translatable in french
<worldofpeace> totally
<samueldr> (practically the rules are ignored :<)
* adisbladis was zimbatm's guest today :)
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<adisbladis> worldofpeace: You totally set a trend :)
<adisbladis> Nix Fridays reminds me of the tuesday pattern in hackerspaces https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/The_Tuesday_Pattern
<eyJhb> Wait
<eyJhb> Is it office hours?
<adisbladis> eyJhb: Indeed it is.
<eyJhb> What's the link?
<zimbatm> https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge was the bridge I was talking about
<zimbatm> #nix-friday or https://zimbatm.com/NixFriday
<eyJhb> It is normally a hour, right?
<samueldr> ~45 mins
<eyJhb> So... 8 minutes left?
<infinisil> gchristensen: Can you move the mouse pointer? :P
<samueldr> unknown
<gchristensen> :D
<eyJhb> infinisil: thought the same
<eyJhb> :D
<gchristensen> thanks infinisil
<samueldr> gchristensen: add to your list of tools for the streaming machine "unclutter"
<eyJhb> aanderse: looks nicer than expected
<gchristensen> I was wondering with worldofpeace before the call what new and unique way I'd do something weird with the stream :P
<worldofpeace> (graham doesn't know I have an essay ready with weird stuff)
<eyJhb> gchristensen: could be a new easter egg ;)
<worldofpeace> jk
<eyJhb> worldofpeace: I would read that
<worldofpeace> eyJhb: I will dm you
<eyJhb> Ohh boy am I excited now! :D
<infinisil> I want aanderse to have drawn a nixos logo on the whiteboard next time
<eyJhb> Ohh all this just reminds me how much I miss having time for NixOS stuff
<eyJhb> infinisil +1 for that
<eyJhb> infinisil: shouldn't gchristensen be doing so as well?
<infinisil> Ohh yes
<eyJhb> I might give that as a challenge to my friend, she will enjoy it (I think?)
<gchristensen> mmm maybe next time :P I'm not a good artist
<worldofpeace> Everyone is an artist!!! just with different tools
<samueldr> get your ruler and protactors out, it's entirely geometrical :)
<adisbladis> M-x artist-mode
<worldofpeace> samueldr: The shape is very native to me :D
<eyJhb> worldofpeace: Hibernation?! :o
<infinisil> I'm wondering if we should orient nixos more towards utility-based options instead of program-based ones
<eyJhb> infinisil: in what sense?
<infinisil> So instead of options for nginx, httpd, have a webserver option
<samueldr> should it be split in porcelain / plumbing and "utility" options use "plumbing" options to configure the system?
<infinisil> But the same thing for all kinds of utilities
<infinisil> E.g. services.dns
<eyJhb> infinisil: It is somewhat mixed now, right?
<worldofpeace> eyJhb: pm in like 20min
<gchristensen> phew!
<infinisil> eyJhb: I don't think so, it's only services.{dnsserver1,dnsserver2,...}
<zimbatm> gchristensen: going back to sleep? :)
<eyJhb> Also... THat was what I was thinking with the webserver things
<gchristensen> zimbatm: I wish :x
<eyJhb> webserver.xxx that does options on nginx.xxx if you want that as backend and apache.xxxx if you use that
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<eyJhb> worldofpeace: great! :D
<infinisil> eyJhb: Yeah that's aanderse's intention I believe
<eyJhb> I will try to be here ;)
<zimbatm> regarding to the HTTP routing, we really need named services
<infinisil> I think doing more such utility-based abstractions might be nice
<eyJhb> Sounds nice! I only had one ear to listen with, the other was on a podcast. Quite a weird combination
<adisbladis> zimbatm: What do you mean by named services?
<zimbatm> adisbladis: it's a bit hard to explain, let me try
<zimbatm> you need multiple parts
<zimbatm> `imports = [ (lib.prefixModule "mediawiki1" ./mediawiki.nix) ];`
<zimbatm> where prefixModule is a special kind of wrapper
<zimbatm> that maps all the config and options to a prefix for the module
<zimbatm> and the mediawiki.nix module can only access config options for itself
<worldofpeace> eyJhb: hibernation -> new year rebirth? tldr, I'm brand new
<zimbatm> then you can start configuring the service `prefixes.mediawiki1.enable = true;`
<infinisil> zimbatm: Sounds like just an option for e.g. `services.mediawiki.instance1 = ...`
<infinisil> Which is already possible with `type = attrsOf (submodule ...)`
<zimbatm> infinisil: the difference would be that the module is not loaded by default, and have a bit of a different interface
<zimbatm> so you would have `nixpkgs/services` that contains those networked-services
<zimbatm> the advantage is that writing more services wouldn't slow down the nixos evaluation because they are not loaded by default
<zimbatm> and that they can have any number of instances by default as well
<zimbatm> at the moment the module has to be designed specifically to support multiple instances
<gchristensen> another nice advantage is being able to have multiple instances without much trouble
<gchristensen> it is possible to do that now, but it is a bit ugly
<zimbatm> we would impose restrictions on the service definition, it would be a subset of the systemd unit
<zimbatm> like DynamicUser is always true
<gchristensen> yeah
<gchristensen> nice
<zimbatm> on the nixos side, we would map those to systemd units
<gchristensen> btw, if we get 8 more subscribers we can get a fancy pants Youtube channel URL :)
<zimbatm> but then they would be re-usable by other systems as well
<zimbatm> anyways, that's the dream that's a bit in the air
<aanderse> <infinisil "So instead of options for nginx,"> yeah i think aszlig (sp?) worked on that for web services/applications and databases in the past
<gchristensen> zimbatm: I like it a lot
<aanderse> i'm not a functional programmer... but doing that does seem in the spirit of nixos
<aanderse> of course the implementation... that is another thing
<gchristensen> zimbatm: probably /many/ services don't need the full power of the module system
<aanderse> maybe it doesn't work out so nice
<zimbatm> gchristensen: yeah exactly
<gchristensen> or could be in a "read only" mode, taking inputs explicitly with no write permission
<zimbatm> maybe one day I will give it a try if nobody beats me to it
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