<{^_^}>
#66254 (by marcus7070, 16 weeks ago, open): pythonPackages.cadquery: init at 2.0RC0 & cq-editor: init at 0.1RC1
<worldofpeace>
ooh thanks pbb
<samueldr>
adisbladis: "meh", mobile-nixos is going to be better :3
<samueldr>
(yes, them's fighting words)
<adisbladis>
samueldr: I agree, but it's still pretty awesome
<samueldr>
definitely, I'm stirring discussion
<adisbladis>
:D
<adisbladis>
samueldr: Speaking of mobile nixos
<worldofpeace>
pbb: is this your PR?
<__red__>
My question regarding the workflow from staging became moot because someone ended up merging the stuff fro staging -> staging-next -> master
<samueldr>
hadn't seen their fork of ajs' repo
<adisbladis>
When are you gonna merge my hybris stuff?
<pbb>
worldofpeace: no
<samueldr>
adisbladis: oops, kinda forgot about all that
<worldofpeace>
It seems jonringer is up to date on it.
<adisbladis>
samueldr: No worries :)
<__red__>
Have we gotten to a general Q/A yet?
<adisbladis>
Though I would like that merged so I can get to the next bits
<samueldr>
worked on the pinephone stuff lately, and docs
<__red__>
ie, was it first or is to towards the end?
<samueldr>
yeah, I want to, too
<adisbladis>
__red__: Just ask away
<adisbladis>
I think?
<pbb>
that's ok
<__red__>
I messages the question to worldofpeace earlier today
<samueldr>
oh
<__red__>
it's about where to host tarballs for code
<samueldr>
it was answered first thing
<adisbladis>
__red__: Ohh, that one was the first thing
<__red__>
bah - back to the youtube stream later then :-)
<samueldr>
but... a snafu happened and youtube and recording wasn't going :|
<__red__>
Oh
<__red__>
then I should ask again
<__red__>
hehe
<adisbladis>
pbb: I'll take a look
<__red__>
unless you guys remember the answer for me that is
<pbb>
thanks
<__red__>
I mean, I could just put it in my github repo- it's kosher as far as the license is concerned... just don't know what nix org peeps would think of the ownder of a repo being the same person who does the PR
<pbb>
just want to prevent it getting stuck again
<worldofpeace>
yay found one
<samueldr>
gchristensen: would it make sense to rehash the answer to __red__'s question?
<worldofpeace>
probably samueldr
<worldofpeace>
one sec
<manveru>
adisbladis: are you working on an update to vgo2nix yet? :)
<samueldr>
(that was written before he got back "on air" :))
<__red__>
Question: do we have an armv71 support / build box?
<adisbladis>
__red__: The aarch64 builder can do that too iirc
<__red__>
Sounds like you need a "maintainer-seeker" role
<aanderse>
some core packages have no maintainer
<aanderse>
maintainer teams ++
<__red__>
See, I'm happy to volunteer to pick up a few - but I wouldn't know which packages to volunteer for
<aanderse>
i am pretty sure there is a discoure conversation about that...
<savanni>
But as users we can always keep a link on older channel for those packages that go away.
<samueldr>
maybe we need a process that includes a recurring "announcement"
<adisbladis>
Maybe just a running discourse thread?
<pbb>
I think it would be a great to throw a warning to the users using the package, because those have a big motivation to pick up maintainership
<manveru>
remove yourself from maintainers, packages without maintainer get posted there?
<__red__>
yeah- but main maintainers just ghost as opposed to cleanly leave
<samueldr>
e.g. during month X, everything pick all packages that are going to be removed, then first wednesday of the next month announce them, then the next month remove those listed month X
<__red__>
s/main/some/
<samueldr>
so there's a full month after an announcement
<manveru>
__red__: yeah, that's a hard problem :|
<LnL>
marking as broken/unmaintained first makes the most sense IMHO, full removal doesn't have that many benefits in comparison
<manveru>
i still haven't figured out how to get timely notifications when packages i maintain get updates
<__red__>
here's an idea
<gchristensen>
:o 45min is already over :o
<LnL>
and getting a list of packages broken more then 1 release is relatively easy, for full removal
<manveru>
LnL: something like `allowUnmaintained` flag?
<samueldr>
a good check to add for ofborg would be looking at the removed names in nix-env, and if they're not in aliases, break the build
<__red__>
how about like a "fostering" group. IE, people who volunteer to maintain under a maintainer is found
<__red__>
worldofpeace: rehash my question? :-)
<__red__>
Sold
<__red__>
<3
<LnL>
manveru: yeah, or just reuse broken and ask people to be a maintainer if they want to unmark it
<__red__>
(which is also awesome btw)
<manveru>
LnL: yeah, that might be easier to implement :)
<__red__>
Thanks <4
<LnL>
advantage of the separate flag is that we can give it a nicer error message
<savanni>
I got through the entire call without my wireless dropping!
<gchristensen>
w00t
<__red__>
(Personally I think you should make the meetings weekly, but I'm selfish like that)
<__red__>
;-)
<LnL>
literally just joined the last 5 mins :/
<worldofpeace>
lol, but my computer did lock up completely
<worldofpeace>
__red__: I've thought of this
<__red__>
easier to not lose sync of the week on, week off
<savanni>
I also see that today's Nix Friday, which I think has already happened, is on a topic that is of very great interest to me today.
<worldofpeace>
We originally decided on this on a really selfish reason. __red__
<__red__>
Well, you're allowed to be selfish with your time
<samueldr>
meta.broken should be reviewed to accept a pre-baked message from e.g. lib.brokenness.needsMaintainer
<worldofpeace>
gchristensen: had a flight and couldn't do it one week. let's just pretend that's intentional.
<__red__>
we appreciate the time y'all put it
<gchristensen>
:P
<LnL>
samueldr: yeah that would be better then introducing a 3rd flag
<worldofpeace>
and I always have something to do on alternating friday's. so it turns out well that it's always on me "good" friday
<worldofpeace>
(no flights)
<pbb>
this was my first time participating, I will try to join every time from now on. I really appreciate the possibility to ask questions and bring up stuff, but also to be able to talk to other nixpkgs contributors.
<samueldr>
additionally meta.broken = libs.brokenness.removed { when = "some-future-date"; why = "the package has been causing X and Y issues"; }
<worldofpeace>
pbb: a big 💖. you caught the intention well.
<worldofpeace>
samueldr: that would be nice. hmm, I think infinisil had some code similar to this.
<samueldr>
though it was outside of meta, and yes, pretty sure there was something about that
<pbb>
I think some additional guidelines for people who want to participate would be great, for example a pad/codimd where discussion topics are collected and structured
<LnL>
yeah the idea sounds somewhat familiar
<worldofpeace>
pbb: yep, we probably need a notetaker
<pbb>
(although this chat also serves that purpose quite well)
<infinisil>
worldofpeace: Perhaps you mean rfcs#33?
<samueldr>
(I also was talking with infinisil in the early stages of the idea)
<worldofpeace>
think it had to do with nix-repl -> nix repl topic
<samueldr>
there were a couple deprecations that went weird
<samueldr>
in a short span of time
<samueldr>
though yeah, nix repl was one of those
<__red__>
worldofpeace: did you guys just talk about my ltfs example? or the more general question that I mentioned later
<worldofpeace>
__red__: I believe graham mentioned various options when I went off air shortly
<worldofpeace>
__red__: so it was either you can use requireFile and people can add the file to their store manually
<worldofpeace>
__red__: or I think it could be added to tarballs.nixos.org, but it would be manual which sucks. you'd need some way to handle updates gracefully.
<gchristensen>
another option is mirroring the repo to github somewhere, a third option is have an org administrator upload a tarball to tarballs.nixos.org each time you want to update it
<pbb>
is there a guideline for participation from people who are not guest speakers? I was unsure if it was ok to throw in my opinion in the voice chat, or if text chat is better with this amount of people
<__red__>
gchristensen: I'm happy to be the person to mirror it up on github
<__red__>
I just didn't know if you'd have issues grabbing a "HP package" from a personal github
<worldofpeace>
pbb: though this time, it's pretty casual because it's been a minute.
<tilpner>
__red__: Add a comment with instructions on how to verify the source is identical above src
<__red__>
tilpner: good idea!
<worldofpeace>
__red__: cool. I like the idea of github mirroring maybe. IIRC, I notice that happening in other places. a downside is it could be used outside nixos, and have others depending on you uploading. with tarballs.nixos.org, it's pretty manual, and we don't handle uploads like distro's that have to upload things. but it's most direct because it's our infra. requireFile is pretty popular for this reason.
<tilpner>
worldofpeace: How is that a downside?
<tilpner>
Disable issues, and let people clone as they want
<__red__>
I guess I need to become a member of said org in order to make the repo?
<zimbatm>
hey
<zimbatm>
looks like I missed the office hours..
<gchristensen>
and I missed yours :(
<zimbatm>
timezones and all
<__red__>
hey zimbatm...
<zimbatm>
what is your github handle __red__ ?
<__red__>
redvers
<samueldr>
when are the zimba-hours relative to office-hours?
<zimbatm>
can I be lazy and ask the higlights of the office-hours :p
<samueldr>
PRs got reviewed
<samueldr>
Questions answered
<samueldr>
that's the unhelpful but truthful condensed version
<savanni>
Discussion about removing unmaintained packages.
<gchristensen>
I pitched your nix fridays :)
<worldofpeace>
concistency with the ideas now
<savanni>
Is the discourse the best place to ask about the javascript build components?
<zimbatm>
thanks for the update :)
<zimbatm>
__red__: invite sent!
<__red__>
thank you!
<worldofpeace>
savanni: I think in general discourse is the best place for a constructed answer
<savanni>
Cool.
<__red__>
that's different to the NixOS org right?
<zimbatm>
nix-community is unofficial
<zimbatm>
it's our self-serving org where we put stuff we want to share ownership
<zimbatm>
we don't really have any rules, just be respectful of other people's work as usual
<zimbatm>
there is a buildkite instance available and a few other CIs
<zimbatm>
just move/create the repos you want and ping me afterwards so I can make you admin on the repo
<adisbladis>
Thanks for taking this one zimbatm :)
<__red__>
so make the repo in my own github and you can move it?
<__red__>
or just make the repo in there?
<zimbatm>
I haven't followed the whole story. Are we getting backups of cache.nixos.org on tape?
<zimbatm>
the best is to create your repo in your user account. hack on it until you think it's worthwile to share it
<gchristensen>
zimbatm: no
<gchristensen>
red has their own take library though :)
<__red__>
haha
<zimbatm>
could be nice :)
<__red__>
how big is cache.nixos.org out of curiosity?
<gchristensen>
a few months ago it was 190T
<zimbatm>
two tapes
<__red__>
oof
<gchristensen>
=)
<__red__>
that's not two tapes
<zimbatm>
how expensive is a tape?
* samueldr
wonders about the cost of S3 to tape
<__red__>
well, not two of mine ;-)
<__red__>
zimbatm: depends on the size
<samueldr>
thinking more about the transfer
<__red__>
sec - I'll get you a rough list
<samueldr>
though media is also something
<zimbatm>
__red__: just to finish the answer, once your repo is ready, you are the only one who can transfer it to the nix-community org. go to the repo setting -> move
<__red__>
Thanks
<zimbatm>
then ping me when that's done
<zimbatm>
it's a shared home so let me know if you need anything to be confortable in there :)
<__red__>
LTO-6 - $2.5Tb/6.25Tb - $23
<__red__>
LTO-7 - 6Tb/15Tb - $57
<__red__>
LTO-8 - 12Tb/30Tb - $141
<__red__>
and typical lifetime for tape is measured in decades
<__red__>
(compare to blu-ray which still maxes out at 100Gb)
<__red__>
you see why the world still archives to tape
<worldofpeace>
I think I might make an investment :D
<__red__>
look on ebay
<__red__>
they're ridiculously inexpensive
<savanni>
Quick question: if I have a derivation installed in my environment, what's my command to figure out where that derivation lives in the nix store?
<__red__>
new - an LTO-6 drive will cost you $3k
<__red__>
used? I got a whole tape robot with 24 slots and an LTO-6 drive for $800 ish
<gchristensen>
__red__: the *drive* not the *tape* yeah?
<__red__>
yes
<__red__>
just the drive
<__red__>
but once you have teh drive, the tapes are just gravy
<__red__>
Two things you need to know.
<__red__>
1. LTO requires that all manufacturers can read and write each others tapes.
<__red__>
They are required to be backwards compatible. They MUST be able to read back 2 versions, and write 1 version
<__red__>
so my LTO6 can read LTO4 and LTO5, and write to LTO5 (and obviously read and write to LTO6)
<__red__>
and come on worldofpeace - you know it makes sense :-)
<savanni>
.drv is fine (knowing *which* .drv, even), but I'm actually going for the final derivation directory because I'm trying to figure out what's going wrong.
<zimbatm>
it's fun that tapes still have a development roadmap
<worldofpeace>
savanni: so is it you're trying to find the derivation that's the nix-env user environment?
<__red__>
the only reason people think tape is old tech is because of cloud vendors
<__red__>
every company I've worked for with the exception of my current has used tape
<savanni>
I'm creating a new derivation, and I'm installing it with nix-env, and no executables are being generated. Though right now, I can't even get the install script to re-run.
<__red__>
the cable company I worked for backed up 2000 or so servers every single night to two tape libraries
<worldofpeace>
savanni: ah ok, you have an installable derivation but no binaries are being linked. and you expect this derivation produces binaries so you're trying to build it to inspect it's outputs?
<savanni>
Yeah. And if I happen to be watching at the right time I can see the output path go by.
<worldofpeace>
right, if you do like nix-store -q /nix/store/bydy1xv2c5kh215yrq7qqq4d8n36s0vz-binutils-2.31.1.drv it will default print the outputs of said derivation as nix-store paths
<worldofpeace>
so like, if you get the derivation that is you user environment with query you can do nix-store -qR /nix/store/al3sqh0pagqyahxyblwbsix5d8zvbvc8-user-environment.drv and it's a list of the closure of your user env
<savanni>
Oh, that's actually of particular interest.
<worldofpeace>
for real, I think all the commands you want are in nix-store
<savanni>
Sometimes, especially when I'm writing a derivation, I have an unknown number of things installed into my nix-store.
<worldofpeace>
sometimes an expression has like propagated user env packages, so if you install it with nix-env it'll link a whole bunch of other things.