gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-officehours to: https://www.twitch.tv/grahamchristensen
<gchristensen> I uploaded last week's office hours to YouTube just now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLJRQ5FLOu4 (also, if we get 100 subscribers, we get a custom channel URL. take that as you will :) )
<pie_> wait we had office hours last week?
<pie_> wasnt last week when we didnt have one
<pie_> xD
<pie_> ok 08-02 was two weeks ago
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<gchristensen> yeah
<zimbatm> I'll be missing the office hours today :/
<gchristensen> aww :(
<gchristensen> zimbatm: I'll be missing you!
<zimbatm> yeah I need to rest tonight. I'll be back next week!
<gchristensen> do rest :)
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<adisbladis> Me too :/ Just boarded a flight
<gchristensen> dang!
<gchristensen> oh well :) we'll just have to have all the fun without you
<worldofpeace> 👋 good flight to you adisbladis
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<tazjin> gchristensen: I think I joined successfully
<tazjin> not entirely sure
<worldofpeace> ^
<gchristensen> worldofpeace: want to join?
<worldofpeace> huh suddenly I'm gone? :D
<gchristensen> eh?
<gchristensen> it looks like you muted yourself
<samueldr> :/ as expected, zoom had to crash the system at least once here :)
<gchristensen> guh
<samueldr> though it's great it happened before this all started
<gchristensen> NixOS office hours will be getting started in 15 minutes, join us: zoom.us/j/120295959, #nixos-officehours, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWPM6di0KSk
<gchristensen> s/15/5/ :)
<aanderse> oh no only 5 minutes left...
<aanderse> i hope nix-shell -p zoom finishes within 5 minutes -_-
<gchristensen> oh no
<worldofpeace> and counting...
<gchristensen> I hope so!
<samueldr> aanderse: open the youtube stream as a backup plan :)
<tazjin> I should test the screensharing actually
<worldofpeace> recently fixed the desktop integration for that. enjoy the pretty icon aanderse :P
<tazjin> gchristensen:
<tazjin> ^
<gchristensen> tazjin: go for it, do try
<aanderse> <3 worldofpeace
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 30
<samueldr> AH!
<gchristensen> tazjin: have you tried it?
<samueldr> pressing (and releasing) alt will hide UI elements in zoom
<worldofpeace> it may have been shamelessly stolen from flathub aanderse
<samueldr> (not holding alt, just a keypress of [left] alt)
<samueldr> (this explains why I sometimes was missing elements)
<samueldr> wow, the timeliness of that discovery :/
* aanderse clicks youtube link -_-
<aanderse> can everyone else hear?
<samueldr> can't seem to
<pie_> ok so its not just me then. - no sound on youtube gchristensen
<gchristensen> how about now?
<pie_> (how much is the stream lag?)
<pie_> yay sound
<aanderse> zoom finished!
<samueldr> it's a great length
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<gchristensen> one problem I have is when I go away from the Zoom window, obs stops recording from it ... which is not what I want.
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<samueldr> I think that'll happen whenever the windows is "unmapped" (X11 term)
<gchristensen> :/
<samueldr> it happens when i3 hides the window, right?
<gchristensen> 2 awkward streaming problems. at least the recording should be good ... ;)
<samueldr> :)
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<averell> for this example, is nixery.dev/shell/git/htop/ripgrep the same image? or just the same layers?
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<gchristensen> averell: can you clarify what you mean by "the same image"?
<averell> basically the layer order doesn't matter i guess?
<gchristensen> ah, will as
<gchristensen> k
<gchristensen> lolcat is pretty big :')
<gchristensen> should have suggested figlet
<gchristensen> that was so fast!
<flokli> iana-etc might be another pkg that probably should be included by default
<flokli> we don't, but we should
<averell> yes, thanks
<flokli> pr sent :-)
<stew> I get an anxiety attach just watching someone write "kubectl delete pods --all"
<gchristensen> pod "gmail" deleted
<gchristensen> pod "search" deleted
<flokli> :-)
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* scoates lurks
* gchristensen waves
<scoates> tazjin: it might be cool to host/show (realtime, or on the previous build run) the logs at e.g. https://nixery.dev/shell/htop/git/ripgrep
<flokli> zimbatm wrote something serving a nix attribute path over http
<flokli> at last years nixcon
<samueldr> it was briefly talked about in the first office hours I think
<flokli> ok
<gchristensen> if anyone has PRs to discuss, now is the time! :)
<tazjin> scoates: that's a cool idea!
<samueldr> an interesting idea about the isos, is shipping gnome3 with wayland instead of X11
<aanderse> tazjin++ for awesome talk :)
<{^_^}> tazjin's karma got increased to 12
<gchristensen> also, if anyone needs help with any project or question -- please speak up!
<tazjin> aanderse: thanks! :)
<tazjin> I hope it wasn't too wonky, I didn't have that much time to prepare - but the next iterations of the demos are going to be a bit more polished!
<aanderse> i've never used those technologies so it was pretty interesting for me to listen :)
<samueldr> tazjin: not much wonky; the usual "first time sharing a screen to an audience" I think
<samueldr> (e.g. "is it too small")
<samueldr> so tazjin++ you did well :)
<{^_^}> tazjin's karma got increased to 13
<tazjin> samueldr: yeah normally if I had more time to prepare I'd get something set up with a window manager that isn't EXWM, it's very good for being productive - not for sharing a screen ;D
<tazjin> samueldr: isn't wayland p. much the default for most mainstream distributions already?
<samueldr> tazjin: wasn't exactly a flaw; just saying that you didn't look unprepared :D
<samueldr> tazjin: AFAIK maybe, for gnome only
<aanderse> gchristensen: eelco mentioned more to run, does that mean a concern with lack of resources?
<gchristensen> no
<__monty__> Ubuntu runs gnome? They're wayland, right?
<aanderse> k
<gchristensen> but for every channel bump we get 1g of ISOs built
<gchristensen> with gnome, it'd be 2g of ISOs
<aanderse> right, ok
<samueldr> in addition to cache, the isos are uploaded to another location
<samueldr> so it's × 2
<aanderse> worldofpeace: not having a gnome iso does make potential users feel like gnome might not be supported that well on nixos
<aanderse> gnome and kde are the main standard DEs on linux
<aanderse> yeah
<aanderse> as eelco just said :)
<averell> but for nix users?
<averell> i'd wager there's a lot of tiling going on
<aanderse> averell: and it might continue that way if we don't make potential new users (who are gnome users) feel more welcome?
<adisbladis> What's the point of more iso's? They're only for getting nixos onto the system
<adisbladis> We better have one well working one than two different DEs
<aanderse> adisbladis: spoken from a truly technical point of view, but as worldofpeace mentioned the intention is UX point of view
<samueldr> → to #nixos-dev with a follow-up concern related but orthogonal to #66640
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/66640 (by worldofpeace, 1 day ago, open): rename iso_graphical to iso_graphical_plasma5
<__monty__> Since you basically *need* an internet connection to install nixos anyway I kinda agree. As long as it's clear that plasma's just *a* choice for the live environment and not specifically endorsed.
<aanderse> gchristensen: thanks again for hosting! :)
<gchristensen> thank you for coming!
<stew> debian's solution for the problem you were discussing is "jigdo, the jigsaw downloader" which was a tool that would download the individual packages and assemble the varios iso flavors on the fly from the parts: http://atterer.org/jigdo/#why
<adisbladis> If anything wouldn't a more minimal environment be preferable?
<stew> though I don't think it ever was used very commonly, because its just not as simple as downloading an iso, so I'm not sure its a good thing for trying to fix an ergonomics issue
<worldofpeace> new users don't like to install in a minimal environment
<worldofpeace> I would love to know how opensuse has gotten their live images to be soo small https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/tumbleweed and have automated testing so well that they can move soo quickly
<samueldr> we can shed a bunch of bytes by removing the compiler closure
<gchristensen> let's go to #nixos-dev :)
<worldofpeace> Also I don't feel like to many techinical points would hold strong in a UX sense. Another ISO is to cater to the users. Like more sugar makes something sweeter
<worldofpeace> But you can't have too much or it spoils it.
<gchristensen> stew: I didn't realize you were ex freenode staff!
<stew> I have the emotional scars to prove it, hehe
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<gchristensen> I can literally see my disfluencies in the audio timeline
<__monty__> Disfluency?
<gchristensen> "uhm" and "and"s
<gchristensen> sorry ... leftover speech recognition jargon
<gchristensen> I love that kdenlive has a "shut down computer after render"
<gchristensen> option
<__monty__> Dat editor lyfe.
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<worldofpeace> you were fine gchristensen :D We'll call it absense of dramatic pauses. who wants to bear silence between every word?
<worldofpeace> If you think we need to ofset it, I could do a beatboxing portion 🤣
<aanderse> i look forward to next times beatboxing portion :)