ChanServ changed the topic of #nixos-ruby to: Everything about using Nix & Ruby. Logs at
<rickhull> for sure, but we chopped a layer FTW :)
<rickhull> that said, dropping the OS means losing e.g. easy SSH stuff (I presume)
<rickhull> and I'm so dang SSH oriented, I haven't quite wrapped my head around the alternative. probably Kafka events or something
<manveru> i just like to keep things simple, so just deploying to bare metal is nicer
<rickhull> I've probably given up on dealing with bare metal, in my vision. I think pretty much in terms of AWS VMs -- but I don't think I want to run all of Linux in a VM
<manveru> but we occasionally run a few thousand machines on AWS...
<simpson> I prefer Kubernetes. AWS is painfully primitive at this point.
<simpson> When working in terms of VMs, yeah, kernel concerns still matter a lot. But container-only deployments are 100% app only.
<rickhull> yes, that vision makes sense. but the docker tech behind it bugs me a little bit
<simpson> I have yet to really like any of the serverless tools for Kubernetes though. kubeless is alright-ish, I guess?
<rickhull> I just want to minimize the stack between my app and the (V)M
<rickhull> while maintaining immutable infra as code
<rickhull> and yeah, docker is pretty well situated for that
<rickhull> but it still seems a little heavy, both in terms of docker images and also needing the full linux stack
<manveru> well, what you do with nix up to you, all it does is make sure your builds are pure and you don't forget dependencies
<manveru> we build AMIs with it, and qemu images, and docker images, and standalone executables, and test whole networks with nixos tests...
<rickhull> yes, I'm still just trying to realize my vision and nix seems very useful
<manveru> but NixOS itself is not really that minimal by default
<rickhull> nixos is probably not in the final vision, but maybe in most of the incremental steps there
<rickhull> nix maybe is, but I'm not comfortable yet, not sure
<rickhull> manveru: what do you and your org do?
<manveru> there are alternatives like not-os or vpsadminos if you need some inspiration :)
<rickhull> i was looking as OSv in $oldjob
<rickhull> *at
<manveru> i work as SRE at IOHK
<manveru> we build blockchains and stuff :)
<manveru> with lots of Haskell and security requirements, so really happy we can use Nix
<manveru> i just don't do much Ruby anymore... just trying to keep the Ruby infra in nixpkgs alive until someone wants to take over
<manveru> while making the Crystal one better :)
<rickhull> I toyed with Crystal a couple years ago :)
<rickhull> manveru: how do you guys do service discovery / orchestration? are you on a cloud platform? blue/green deployments?
<manveru> we mostly use NixOps
<manveru> with some custom deploy scripts if needed to roll out kinda like blue/green
<rickhull> vision-wise, I got sucked into the Hashicorp universe at $oldjob, but never implemented because $reasons
<manveru> not really anything for service discovery
<manveru> most of our services are p2p anyway
<rickhull> ah, I have next to zero understanding of p2p from an ops perspective
<rickhull> basically the apps discover each other?
<manveru> i'm atm rolling out Vault to replace the NixOps secret handling
<manveru> and regarding cloud platform, as i said we have some AWS, but most of the heavy stuff is on
<manveru> yeah, kinda
<manveru> for monitoring/alerting, we know the topology before deployment, and nixops maintains a hosts file for everyone to find each other
<rickhull> ah, ok
<manveru> you still have to take network issues into account, but it's a start
<manveru> for massive scaling, we build custom AMIs and scale those using terraform instead
<manveru> terranix is really nice for that :)
<rickhull> AMI building with Nix rather than Packer?
<manveru> sure
<manveru> if you want to know how
<rickhull> what does HK stand for?
<manveru> hong kong
<rickhull> I looked at the careers page, is your unit thinking about hiring?
<manveru> i don't think so
<manveru> but you can toss me your CV anyway, I think we'll need more soon
<rickhull> I've been away from programming for a few years, looking to get back into it
<manveru> thanks
<manveru> i gotta get some sleep, hope to see you around :)
<rickhull> cheers!
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