ehmry changed the topic of #nixos-exotic to: NixOS exotic platforms channel | | | | Keep NixOS weird
<drakonis> ehmry: an ifd rfc you say?
<drakonis> oh
<drakonis> its this one, isnt it?
<drakonis> ah, it is certainly interesting
<drakonis> this is fabulous.
<aaronjanse> Agreed. I'm excited
<drakonis> it gets rid of the age old problem of having to maintain a ton of generated code
<drakonis> it is something i've very dearly wanted for nix to have for years
<drakonis> Ericson2314: this is good stuff
<Ericson2314> drakonis thanks!
<drakonis> not needing to convert pl package managers to nix lang is extremely valuable
<drakonis> guix has importers and they're really useful
<aaronjanse> This RFC seems like a fantastic path to convenient packaging while maintaining the reproducibility promises of Nix
<drakonis> yes.
<drakonis> good lord i cant wait to simply have access to everything in a repository
<drakonis> the package management story will exceed any other distribution
<aaronjanse> We'll no longer need bit-for-bit reproducible output just because we want to parse some lockfile. This RFC lets us follow the spirit of Nix without mega-hashes and without generated code
<drakonis> yes
<drakonis> also
<drakonis> up next in the rfc train should be implementing a facsimile of guix's g-exps and grafts
<drakonis> but first, one excellent change at a time
<drakonis> grafting can do reproducible output without needing to engage in mass rebuilds because you need to replace some dependency
<drakonis> ie: quickly replace a dependency with another one that's patched
<drakonis> its extremely useful for emergencies
<drakonis> and/or when hydra is currently locked
<drakonis> it is too excellent for the small stuff
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<drakonis> wild shit
<drakonis> wrong place, but still
<qyliss> more guix stuff should be posted in Nix channels imo
<qyliss> doesn't do us any good to be ignorant of what other people solving similar problems are coming up with
<simpson> It's like when kids don't want to go to family reunions because their cousin has a lisp.
<drakonis> haha welp
<drakonis> i should do it more often but i feel that some folks dont seem to appreciate it much
<drakonis> there's some sort of confrontational atmosphere whenever it comes up
<drakonis> nix needs better evangelizing imo
<drakonis> whenever guix comes up, it manages to have far more positive takes on it than nix
<drakonis> did you know that they're going to have a home-manager equivalent for 1.4.0?
<qyliss> did not!
<drakonis> as part of the baseline package?
<qyliss> that's cool
<qyliss> and makes a lot of sense
<drakonis> they have a much stronger baseline than nix
<drakonis> nixops and *2nix is available from the get go
<drakonis> no need for extra packages or specific behavior
<drakonis> its very cool what they've done with a much smaller community
<drakonis> niiiiiiice.
<Ericson2314> qyliss: I can almost do LLVM netbsd with this, but there is a -lgcc sneaking in during libc's linking
<Ericson2314> but grepping the keep-failed only showed some innocent looking -lgcc
<drakonis> also this is a pretty great thing
<drakonis> its kinda like hydra's web interface but it exposes far more data in a presentable manner
<Ericson2314> will look
<drakonis> i havent talked a lot about guix in a while, so i'm kinda giddy about people checking it for inspiration again
<Ericson2314> i do want to reproduce their nice from-nothing bootstrap
<Ericson2314> it will be much less anoying to have long critical paths with ca derivations
<drakonis> they're also very principled, which is highly important
<Ericson2314> well I think they are layer-violation-y
<Ericson2314> which isn't so principled
<drakonis> hmm, do explain
<drakonis> i'd like to hear about it
<Ericson2314> but they are certainly more centralized than us
<Ericson2314> for me the distinctions between surface language stuff be it nix or guile scheme, and the store layer, is very imporant
<Ericson2314> that don't seem to care so much
<drakonis> doing everything in scheme, yeah?
<Ericson2314> everything in scheme is fine with me
<Ericson2314> and sure it's nice you nix-as-a-library or nix-as-a-service or whatever
<drakonis> and being able to directly interface with the store with function calls is the issue here if i understand correctly?
<Ericson2314> but to me the derivation graph is a core language
<Ericson2314> and i very much care about compiling to core languages too
<Ericson2314> for example, i think guix grafting would work much better in conjunction with ca derivations
<Ericson2314> they weren't so sure
<Ericson2314> also guix grafting is implemented very imperatively
<Ericson2314> querying fetchers, querying the what's installed, making derivations are all very intermixed
<drakonis> they have been looking into CAS a while back
<Ericson2314> yes, grafting is supposed be a hack
<Ericson2314> but I hope it would at least be a reproducible hack!
<Ericson2314> i emailed them asking about collorabation, so that our notions of derivations don't drift apart, but they didn't seem too interested
<Ericson2314> email chain died off pretty quick
<Ericson2314> hopefully once we have e.g. doing CA nixpkgs (before switching over permenantly)
<drakonis> hmm, well, when was that?
<Ericson2314> we can pick up the coneresation again
<drakonis> hmm, i see.
<Ericson2314> earlier this year
<drakonis> interesting.
<drakonis> was it in guix-devel?
<Ericson2314> no i emailed a core list because there was some ipfs shit in progress I also brought up
<drakonis> you can always ask on irc mind you
<drakonis> there's a fairly strong crossover between the mailing list and irc
<drakonis> so you can talk with ludovic and get a quick response
<Ericson2314> (we applied for a grant on a non-nix but packaging-related thing i thought would be complementary and are waiting to hear back)
<Ericson2314> this was ludovic that emailed me
<drakonis> i see i see
<drakonis> hmm, interesting.
<drakonis> last time i brought up CAS, ludovic was interested on it
<drakonis> so, it should be worth bringing up again later.
<Ericson2314> yeah hopefully so
<drakonis> i really want to see CAS being used in nixpkgs, among a lot of other things
<drakonis> lots of space for doing interesting stuff here
<drakonis> how's that progressing anyways?
<drakonis> i wanted to try something out with it
<drakonis> also does content addressing help with not having to engage in mass rebuilds when modifying the dependency graph?
<Ericson2314> drakonis: yes it's great for avoiding mass rebuilds
<Ericson2314> or, trying to do mass rebuilds embarringly parallel because you predict your change "won't matter" most of the time
<Ericson2314> it's progressing well; mostly regat from Tweag polishing things now
<qyliss> Ericson2314: I heard the other day that reproducing Guix's bootstrap for Nixpkgs has money assigned to it and nobody working on it
<qyliss> (NGI money)
<drakonis> huh.
<qyliss> at least I think I did
<Ericson2314> qyliss: woah really?
<Ericson2314> are non-Europeans eligible to work on that one?
<qyliss> think so
<qyliss> let me check my logs and confir m this
<Ericson2314> sure. I wonder did guix just make this part of their grant app, or is something else the grant recipient
<qyliss> I think this is NixOS money
<Ericson2314> ok cool
<qyliss> oh, the channel it was posted in isn't logged
<Ericson2314> is that a public channel by any chance?
<qyliss> #nixos-r13y
<Ericson2314> hehe i can't imagination what r13y sands for
* Ericson2314 goes and peaks
<drakonis> ah, a peak you say?
<qyliss> ohhhh right I remember the context here
<qyliss> Ericson2314: so, there's funding for every NGI Zero funded project to be packaged with Nix
<qyliss> as one of the support services for projects
<Ericson2314> oh wow
<qyliss> just like there's money to get me e.g. legal advice if I need it
<drakonis> wait
<drakonis> WHAT
<qyliss> from what I've heard, they've been having real trouble finding people to actually do the work
<drakonis> woah there.
<Ericson2314> can I make it not be flakes? :D
<drakonis> ah flakes...
<drakonis> gosh there's so many words on the matter :|
<qyliss> I doubt that's a requirement
<Ericson2314> seems silly for the authoritative archival packaging to be using unstable features :D
<qyliss> but I don't really know
<qyliss> if I didn't have my own funded project I can barely make enough time for I'd be jumping at this work opportunity
<Ericson2314> who should I ping?
<drakonis> if i was good at writing nix lang, i'd be taking it
<drakonis> garbas i think?
<Ericson2314> ok
<drakonis> watching the argument over grafts is v. silly
<qyliss> Ericson2314: why are you so interested in LLVM on NetBSD?
<drakonis> because grafts are an easy mechanism in something like scheme
<Ericson2314> qyliss: cause I hate waiting for gcc to rebuild :D
<qyliss> lol
<qyliss> did you get a chance to look at the dynamic linker bintools wrapper thing btw?
<Ericson2314> qyliss: I was thinking about iti
<Ericson2314> ....sorry
<Ericson2314> after the last PR i pushed I think I am getting closer to ti
<Ericson2314> trying to "clear the workbench" first so to speak
<qyliss> yeah, valid
<qyliss> you've been doing great stuff this eek